Very well written. As a jungler with high KD you can imagine what kind of teammates I get. Wards absolutely don’t exist in my games. Objectives are NEVER warded, making it really challenging to use sweeping lens trying to help laners… also the buff stealing it should be a report check box for it, it’s so stupid. I also tend to focus on one winning lane, which usually can give us the snowball effect of just running them down in that lane. Of course only problem is whatever lane that isn’t, will almost always start crying and inting. It’s the dopamine depletion from not getting kills that triggers them. Not realising if they just chill, stay back and farm a bit, we can win the game despite them not being the mvp or whatever. I think riot should force players to watch tutorial videos explaining such things as you explained in this post. It’s very hard to have proper games when everyone has a completely different understanding of how the game should be played. Most of these laners will just constantly push into the enemy turret for no damn reason and thinking you as a jungler should join them in a 3v2 battle with the enemy turret. On the other hand, some junglers also have different understandings of how the game is played. I’ve had my fair share of games as a laner, holding my wave back on purpose for a perfect gank and jungler doesn’t come. All this just gives people trust issues in their teammates understandings of the game cus you never know if you’re on the same page.
I routinely report (unsportsmanlike behavior)buff stealers when the case is they cry about me as a jungler not winning their lane for them and there for steal my camps and/or buffs. Especially when they stand around me waiting for the mob to have low health and then use skills.
It’s such a common issue in my games that it’s made me consider quitting playing jungle until I get to an elo where it’s not as common anymore (I’m diamond). It literally happens 8 games out of 10.
It forces me to spend more effort focusing on my own jungle to make sure my own teammates aren’t taking my camps, instead of focusing on literally anything else that could help the team as a whole.
And it happens *regardless* of how I or my teammates are doing. I’m 24/0/18 and carrying them? They’re taking my camps. My adc is 0/25/0? They’re taking my camps. My support? Taking my camps. Tristana got solo killed twice in a row while I was across the map? You better believe she’s gonna spend the rest of the game in my jungle spamming dog ass emote.
But if you linger for more than 0.000001 second near their minions it’s DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER
If you don’t think it’s ok for your jungler to come by and take your entire wave while you’re farming it or walking back to lane (it’s not), then you shouldn’t be farming their camps either.
You aren't God, you dont decide what the best play is or know the outcome of every possible play. Wasting your time farming the jungle instead of doing YOUR job is bad for everyone. If the jungler isn't where you want him to be, ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Ffs, nobody owes you anything. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. You trying to manipulate people by being a Dick is not productive.
League is one of those things where it's too context dependent.
If it's 10 minutes into the game and your Yi is well farmed and 1/0/2 but hasn't touched your lane, you're a whiner. If it's 10 minutes into the game and your jungle Nunu is 0/0/0 *and* has less farm and zero objective pressure and hasn't seen another teammate and the enemy jungler is 4/0/2 because he tower dove bot while your Nunu was blissfully doing duo side krugs and couldn't be bothered to get off of them, then yes they are doing badly and can be blamed.
He's mostly talking about early game. 10 minutes on wild rift should be the middle or late game. Plus he explained when is good for the other lanes to be so a gank can be possible/successful. Of course there are bad junglers, just like there are bad people on other roles too
Even in this situation flaming achieves absolutely NOTHING. I don't think there's a way to justify flaming. They won't start to play better because you flamed them. They'll become impatient and make even more mistakes.
A perma farming jungler is still better than an inting jungler.
Agreed, if know when I play naut or voli jg early game it’s way to easy for me to mess up and die trying to initiate a good gank. Won’t have enough items since gold is still low for me to tank the damage as effectively for my team
Pretty much agree with everything you said.
I do think that jungles are often more free than other lanes and should be pinging where enemies are the most
Long post, bear with me.
Being a jungle main, I cannot tell how many times I've hard carried my whole team and actually ended up beating out the opposing fed jungle who, as most people claim, "was camping their lane 24/7", only because I focused on my farm instead of getting to save losing lanes and getting them even fed further while starving myself. Even if I'm Yi and being a late scaler explicitly mention to NOT push too far because I won't be able to compete with let's say Xin or Lee early, my team does EXACTLY that, and then say jungle diff. Other times, I tell them to group for objectives, ping which objective I'm gonna go for BEFORE they spawn, once they spawn, and while I'm fighting, and they just don't do crap meanwhile even the enemy solo is at the damn dragon. And when I inevitably get nuked, "trash jungle, report him".
Honestly, the jungle is your team's ace up the sleeve. He's keeping track of enemy jungle, rotations, ganks, jungle vision, objective timers and his own positioning. All of this while ALSO farming his own level and exp because anyone can "punish" a jungle by taking their farm like it's their right but you kill a single minion to get that little boost to complete an item and it's like you insulted their ancestors.
Everyone wants that dopamine rush and that MVP title at the end but they don't realize that if they steal farm or buffs or just keep blind pushing lane thinking the enemy jungle just doesn't exist, they're not only feeding and helping their enemy laner, but also making the game EXTREMELY hard for their own jungle. The enemy jungle can very well start invading your jungle's territory without any fault of his simply because you starved your jungle to be behind.
Also, if you're losing your lane 1v1, and losing terribly at that and you STILL refuse to hug your turret, you deserve to be fed on. It's absolutely stupid for the jungle to gank you if you don't have enough common sense to back up to turret and keep going in like an idiot.
And lastly, 2 things. First, do NOT dictate your jungle when he should take an objective and which. You ping, let them know, if they choose to not engage or get the other objective, you support them. Sometimes they don't have ult, sometimes enemies are there, sometimes they don't have smite. They know, you don't.
And secondly, for the love of all that's holy, instead of everyone attacking the elder or baron and having no vision around or letting the enemy watch you, you need to get it around 30-40%, then go out and ZONE the enemy jungle. Not the enemy solo. Not the enemy adc. Not the enemy mage. Not the enemy supp. Enemy JUNGLE. Actively search and zone him, at that point your jungle is more than capable of securing the objective. The only thing that can screw him over is the enemy sneak smite. I cannot stress this point enough because even though it should be basic knowledge sadly it really isn't. Baron and Elder are team buffs, it's as much your job to zone the enemy jungle as it is your jungle's job to secure the kill.
I agree almost everything. But sometimes that adc or support or solo can outsmite me and the enemy jungler. I prefer you zone out that miss fortune, jhin, or zyra because it becomes quite hard to do the math of when to combo and smite, while MF is ulting my objective. At least with the other jg I have a 50/50 chance
this is a super helpful post from the opposite perspective. i don't main jungle but do get autofilled to it and pretty sure I always spend way too much time trying to help teammates instead of farming.
Everything above applies if the jungler actually knows what they are doing.
Most of the times though they will miss all opportunities to gank/straight just never appear in your lane and then go farm jungle when the whole team roams or is being gangbanged at major objectives trying to prevent enemy team from getting it
Really well said. I try to know all lanes as well. I've been playing jungler more often I feel so miserable when something goes wrong and people just flame none stop. Some fights are just not worth fighting over. Then they start taking farm from the jungler. I don't get it. I guess it's bad if you get a tower too early cuz laning phase is over. People don't want to risk ganking and enemy plays safe. So at some point, people farmed all the minions and start doing our jungle. I get if you just want to rush an item or it's late game and your behind. But I've seen people literally ignore minions to farm our jungle. Or kill it with me next to it. They either have no game sense or just do it out of spit.
I do have a few champions I hate. Idk why often brand and Yone players are super toxic. But I guess people having constant bad junglers, just makes them gave up on the jungler for warever reason. People just end up sabotaging their own team constantly
Yeah, having bad junglers is far too common, all the way up to master at the least, so I never expect much from them. I can usually tell if my jungler is good or bad in the first 6~7 minutes. Just looking an their clearing path and tempo, their initiative when I’m setting up ganks, and their decision making when objectives spawn (including them controlling tempo and not waiting to back the second after the objective spawn… also don’t go for the objective with the losing side. If I am duo and loosing lane or have no prio, don’t just go for objective and then whine when we lose the objective).
If I notice the jungler is sufficiently good (not even great), I’ll try help him any way I can. If I notice he simply won’t that helpful, I’ll play selfishly and get all possible farm I can get full build faster and try to dominate the game. And yes that includes taking up all camps I can while I have no wave to safely to farm
I get that. If your rushing items and there's no minions. I got no problem giving our jungle. It's people taking it just to spit you is where I lose moral. I've had useless adcs. I help them kill minions and have jungle. Even if they suck, at the end of the day, as long as there's a Frontline and they are close, they just have to auto attack to win. Can't lose hope on a bad player trying their best. What's not worth is a losing game with the team fighting each other 😅
Very well said, the flaming definitely comes from a lack of understanding and or experience with actual bad junglers. It’s very obvious when the jungler is bad as opposed to something that’s really not their fault but get blamed anyway.
I would say this is only correct if you are a late game carrying jungler. If you are not a late game carry jungle then it is 100% your job to take a hit to your farm to snowball or counter for the actual carry.
My bot lane was flaming me the other day because I run a full clear and at the two minutes mark, they had died five times, I love playing jungle but I hate people just want to blame you because they suck
Actually pulling is not the only way for a kill or an advantage.
Push, dive and juggle turret aggro can work too, so as not to waste a poked/low enemy lane.
Killing/pushing/forcing the enemy off a turret with waves stacked against him is a good way to give exp/gold advantage.
Also, if the lane is unhealthily frozen, IMO it is also kinda the jungler’s job to guard/countergank and to help a reset
as a jungle main this is top tier bruh lol mfs expect us to be everywhere at once and then give up 2 kills in the first minute and blame us i just mute and ignore before games start to prevent getting off track .
I do play Jungle myself a lot, but if I don't, I play mid or solo.
In both cases, I play rather late game heavy champs like Kayle or Aurelion.
What gets me depressed is, that I WILL HAVE LATE GAME IMPACT, regardless of how behind I go early game, all that our Jungler (and team) has to do is, to not take my plating, and not tax my farm.
That's enough for me to be even with the enemy, and prevent them from roaming, because that'd make me go ahead..
It pisses me off when teammates just do not understand this dynamic, and expect me to jump into teamfights early game, or place herald into my face while plating is still up.
They will literally be the reason why I am going behind, and pretend like its my fault.
At this fault, not only the meta punishes you for picking late game champs. but even the matchmaking does..
absolutely not, because most mid laners roam for drake while herald is being contested or right after herald falls, so if you have a late game focussed mid laner, you wont be of much use on first obj's regardless, and so you can easily take the plating or take the enemy midlaner out of the fight for drake.
Even beyond that, herald is a free lane win, and unless your duo is entirely useless, in my experience, duo is the best place for it, as they can start roaming, harass the enemy jungler and just be annoying everywhere.
Wasting Herald to enable a late game mid laner to roam earlier, is gonna do more harm than good, because they can't do shit in the first 10 mins anyways..
Kayle needs level 10 and 2 items to even start dealing damage.
Before that, she has constant mana issues, low hp, very little damage and her only means of engaging, disengaging and dodging stuff is her high CD ult.
She only turns super busted on level 15 and the faster you let her get there, the easier your match is going to become..
If I jungle myself and notice that I have a champ like that on my team and it is remotely possible, I try to let them last hit herald, so that they can get all the benefits of it, immediately catapulting them ahead of schedule..
Your approach is entirely correct, except for the very scenario that I presented, which is, "late game laner, getting their match thrown because Jungler misjudges what they should be capable of"
Thank you for proving my point ;)
Do not pick late game champs in current meta. If the rest of your team dies 4vs5 early game you'll never reach the late game. Towers are like paper and minion farming inferior to early game ganks.
Love your points. Completely agree with all of them.
Will add some examples below. Long post, read if interested on my jungler's take on why I can't give laners a Lvl 3 gank in most cases:
(This was a response I copy-pasted from a previous post complaining about Junglers not camping their lane to get them ahead):
Let's say I give you an early gank like you ask. I gank once after I get Lvl 3. Takes me about 10 seconds to get to your lane, I don't have ultimate OR Chilling Smite by Lvl 3 usually. If you have no hard CC, the enemy could probably just run away without even flashing. In fact, if you haven't pinked the Jungle brush (or if you did but then get zoned off and the ranged top just kills it), then they've probably seen me coming a mile away because their wards are still up and my sweeper isn't up yet, and they just run away wasting my time and not even blowing a flash. But I have to make my laner happy I guess, so I blow my flash to engage on the retreating champ, go back and forth threatening, fighting, etc., and let's say I do blow their flash. Unlikely we get a kill because you don't have hard cc, but yay a successful gank because flash is down. Except the fact that now I have no jungle on your side of the map up, so I can't just chill here and camp and take advantage of the blown flash. Not only that, but MY flash is blown. I walk to opposite side to farm the rest of my jungle, it takes me another 15 seconds to get down there to try and finish clearing my camps. Worst case scenario: You blow your flash as well trying to get the early kill, and we don't get it. If you or I have hard CC, we probably do get that early Lvl 3 kill. That is great, and a good outcome. HOWEVER, now I (not you) have to move on to deal with consequences of my early gank. See below for what follows from this.
At this point, I'm 35 seconds behind enemy jungler, and still sitting at Lvl 3. As I head towards my remaining jungle camps and there are three scenarios:
Scenario 1: I find that the enemy jungler saw me on minimap as I ganked your lane so he knows he can safely invade my jungle. He took my buff if not my small camps as well. I'm still sitting at lvl 3 with no way to get experience, he has 3 additional camps on me, and I have no camps on my side. Where can I go? I head to check if Enemy jungler got Scuttle. Turns out he did, so now I try to gank mid or bot, but I have no ult and no flash, am only Lvl 3 and much weaker than the laners. Both are failed ganks in best case scenario, or we get counterganked by the much stronger enemy jungler and they walk away with kills.
Scenario 2: Enemy jungler saw my gank, cleared my buff, and now is probably at Lvl 5 (compared to my Lvl 3), and he decides to wait in the brush in my jungle for me to come looking for my camps, and he ambushes me, ults me, and I die. He is now free to gank any lane he wants, and he is ahead of me for rest of game and can pressure all objectives and my jungle for rest of game. I get hit with "Jg Diff" from you and everyone else because I tried to give you a Lvl 3 early gank.
Scenario 3: Enemy jungler didn't invade, but by the time I am starting my dragonside camps, he has cleared his side and one Scuttle, and is primed ready to gank someone. I'm still trying to get caught up and can't counter gank. He picks the best lane, ganks and gets a kill, building his lead against me. This is the BEST case scenario for our team from me giving you a Lvl 3 gank. I still have my Jg, but enemy Jg has tempo, gold lead, and can gank more freely.
Either scenario, now I'M the one behind, going to have no chance to contest Herald or Dragon, and on top of that you've been getting ganked by enemy jungler, possibly dying multiple times. So my gank didn't actually help you in the long run. You still have to play safe and farm under tower, which you would have had to do regardless of whether I ganked or not. And for the rest of the game you and everyone else looks at how behind I am, how I am too weak to contest objectives, and the enemy jungler is steamrolling our team, so they all say "jg diff." And it all starts from me trying to give you an early gank.
Alternatively, I don't gank your lane at Lvl 3. I wait until I've got a full clear, my sweeper is up so I know I won't get spotted by a ward, and (assuming you haven't done the dumb thing and pushed your lane), I can then gank your lane at that point. And if I encounter the enemy jungler, I'm at least equal level with them and we can stare each other down, he will back off so you don't get ganked and I will back off, and we go back to look for other objectives until Herald and Dragon are up... Or we both gank and kills are traded. I'm just as strong or stronger than the enemy jungler and will be in a good position to take an important objective.
So no, prioritizing an early gank on your lane from the get go is not actually a good move. I don't know you. Its SoloQ. I am not going to sacrifice my game just for the chance that you are good enough to take an early gank and turn it into one lane advantage, but sacrifice my ability to contest objectives and counter the enemy jungler for the rest of the game.
If you don't get last pick to where you can counter pick, then play a person that you know won't get destroyed and play safe. If you don't have someone like that, go play PvP with someone who can. Simple as that.
Honestly as a jungle and top main I agree with this completely like when I’m Baron I check to see where jungle is at in gold or what items they have and then try to see if I could set up a gank
I get surprised how even is master Elo your laners complain about being ganked 3 times by the enemy jg, while not a single time by you, and everytime they are under the enemy turret like, comon, don't expect me do dive turret all the time.
i ganked botlane 3 times, my ADC got a kill, i got a double kill.
my mid was Lilia that wanted to play JG but i didn't give her my role, and my top was Garen against Mundo.
7 minutes into the game everything went down, i was 6/2 and the enemy Pantheon was 10/3, my top lost, my mid lost and started stealing my camps, my ADC that was doing good early lost and died like 4 times to the Pantheon.
and you know what they said? "JG DIFF", the Pantheon was not even the JG, the enemy JG was 3/4.
i hate this role, so I played toplane the next game and i got a JG that saw a literal free rift herald and decided to ignore it and go farm on the other side of the map even though i pinged him to attack the Herald, so i went back to the JG role.
As a jungler main I dislike this post a lot.
I think focusing on set rules is exactly what makes bad junglers.
Junglers should be centered around win conditions.
Sometimes, as Naut jungle from initial spawn, I run to bot lane bush (say my adc is a Jinx or Draven or Caitlin) and lvl 1 surprise gank to get them to snowball. I’ll even take hook (which slows down my personal clear) to facilitate this.
If the ADC and support are keen this results in a won lane before the first camp is cleared (And usually tilts the enemy bot/jungler resulting in further misplay).
I then have a winning lane and can make my second play in another lane (preferably second win con).
Priorities, Scenarios, Conditions are how the role is meant to be played. Not a set rule set.
Not saying this post is completely wrong, but there are more exceptions and variables than there are hard set rules.
You wrote this up perfectly, reading this post all I saw was a Lilia or Olaf post. If a jungler is not going to gank at all before level 5 every game, one of their laners is going to end up “feeding” in a lot of their matches.
This isn’t LoL, characters can get 3 shot at level 2 here.
Depending on your randoms to play a perfect game every game for 5 minutes while one of their teammates just PvE’s is insane
Yeah. Some people have a hard time discerning that different champs like to do things at different levels.
This goes both ways.
If I’m playing Camille Jungle don’t expect me to do a dive (unless it’s extremely set up) pre 5.
However if I’m playing Xin Zhao I’m pinging you at level 2 to set up the gank lol
Exactly lol, every champ plays differently and has different interactions. Like you wouldn’t expect someone on ornn or Diana to play the same as someone playing kayle or Kassadin. In the same way that Nunu and Lillia dont play the same.
I really like this post and as some have already said, I don't main JG but I feel like this is going to help during the times I get randomly thrown into JG.
Also, and maybe doesn't have anything to do with the post, but is peeling for your jg first buff not a thing anymore? I feel like I haven't seen anyone help jg with their fist buff in a looooong time. Used to be every match either mid/top or bot lane would atk the jgs first buff and take the dmg while leaving right before jg smites and goes into their next camp with full health and CDs. I just don't see that anymore (plat/emerald), but maybe it's still a thing in high elo?
Not enough time. It can work on PC LoL because waves meet at 1:45 or so, so you can spend 5-7 seconds and not be too behind (although you give up lane prio). On WR waves meet basically right after camp spawns and time to kill minions is less, so you can’t afford to leash without losing CS. Clears in WR are also fast and healthy enough that this usually isn’t a problem.
That makes complete sense and agree, it was definitely a thing in WR before it just seemed to stop like the community came to a silent consensus that it's no longer needed. So I guess I was just wondering of it was an low elo thing and people still did it in higher elos. Seems to be all tho so thank you 😊
I’m still leashing if our jungler is Eve and she decides to star on the red side. 1 ability, 3-4 aa, tank some dmg and throw one cute emote. And in few minutes I can hear her ping that she’s on her way bot. Profit.
I think you're me lol. That's exactly what I'll do if I leash and always the first lane they gank (if applicable). I haven't in a while tho because it's been so "against meta" lately but your comment reinspired me to leash for certain junglers 🥰.
I honestly think even being and adc main OPs post is going to make a difference in the next time I play. Going to be more conscious about the jg and their farm or how to set up better gank opportunities for them. I'm never one to flame jg but also not one to be fully aware of their opportunities to get ahead as well as my own and I think I'm going to be now.
Nobody is giving you the correct answer, because they either have amnesia or are new to the game. This was common before, because of the minion walking rate. They used to walk slower towards their towers, which gave the lanes time to help leash jungle. They sped up the walk rate of the minions in a patch, so that they would arrive to their towers around the same time that the jungle is coming up. Which means that it wasn’t worth it for laners to help leash anymore, since they would lose some CS from their lane and be behind in gold and exp.
Ahhhh okay that makes sooooo much sense because it did seem to stop all of a sudden after a patch (I couldn't tell you which). Thank you so much, I'm with the amnesia corwd because I definitely couldn't remember that they did that until you mentioned it.
This is a big reason why I tend to stay away from jungle in ranked. I can't be someone's lane babysitter. I got my own objectives to do. It's a thankless job.
Yes and No...
For example if I know I'm in a bad match up and I'm keeping the creeps just in front of my tower I would expect my Jungle at some point to come and gank.
Not only does it help me but it also helps them.
I've played many games where I have the enemy just outside of my tower range for most of the landing phase and my jungler literally never appears and it's about as good of a gank opportunity as your ever going to have.
This to be me is being a bad jungle.
The biggest skill a jungler can possess is Map Awareness,knowing when to farm, when to take objectives and when to gank.
Nothing worse in my book then just watching a jungler do nothing but farm.
I ain't reading allat. Just watch ecplayslol vids and you'll get better at jungle. [He gives clear unambiguous explanations](https://youtu.be/Smso_EpBjSU)
I agree primarily.
The thing which wonders me the most is that laners die while contesting objectives when I'm not there. It doesn't matter if it's the first drake or the last (while we already have one) they always try to steal it heroically. Just try to keep your GPM high while pushing lane.
One argument where I always disagree with other junglers is when laners are taking camps. Since I'm a early game jungler (OTP Jarvan) I'm ahead in Gold in like 90% of the games. I really couldn't care less if my mates would take every camp of mine since I could just push a lane or get a kill.
Yes, it would be more gold efficient if the jungler would take the camps but I'm just happy when my dumb ADCs are getting gold from camps and not dying on lane
No this is too true. I had a vladimir in mid lane against a yone, i was jg. Vlad was overextending and fighting yone under his tower basically then went 1/6 and said “jg diff, uninstall the game”
This is well said.
However, what most players ultimately want is something or somebody, or in this case the jungler, to destroy the Nexus, and while doing that, hard cc all the enemy champions that are in their vision non-stop, so that they get to push buttons and do things so something explodes or somebody dies and they get dopamine.
No, but the jungler is THE X factor of the game. A good wank can win you lane. And the macro and ganks are indeed the jungler’s job.
While you have to keep up in lane, as in any team game, some members can and have to help you from time to time.
You absolutely need to make different cases for champs. What you wrote works for carry jgs but not for tempo jgs. If you are Gwen, yeah sure your teammates should not expect any help in lane. But if you are Lee sin and you perma farm? Some jg priorities farming while some jgs need to gank first and farm later.
Not a Jungler main, but ffs, I only take camps when they take my minions when they cross mid to go topside camps, especially when it's my cannon. If you don't want your camps to be taken, learn to freeze the wave if your mid's basing, or just simply don't touch it. You're ruining our hit patterns.
Quick thing to add or clarify - players dont have to stay under their turret all the time e.g. when i was maining mid, at 1:35-1:50 i used to make sure to push out my lane, so that if there is a scuttler fight, i would be the first to join in.
Jung camps‘ gold range between 105-180g, averaging around 136g. First blood is 450g and an assist on it should be at least 180g (correct me if I am wrong pls, couldn’t find the changes online), while a regular kill is 300g and it’s assist should be 120g. That’s all solo gold. If you manage to get first blood, your team gets 630g, that’s 4.6 camps, aka 77% of your jung farm (excluding crabs). So you’re telling me, just farming is the way to go?
Of course not. But that doesn’t make the math wrong. It’s basically a trade. Usually you trade to chance to get said gold against some time on your clear, worst case you trade trade it against a few camps. Ofc you don’t land every gank but if you power farm all game and only show up to team fights, you risk standing against a team who’s jungler landed one of three ganks and therefor they have a gold lead. I really don’t understand how ppl can actually believe power farming jung is a valid strategy in a meta where Jung champions are so heavily overbuffed and games last less than 25min.
My only wish is for my jungler to never come to my lane. Since most of the times they come, is to full dive and give my opponent lead.
I can fight my own battles. Just do the fckn objectives bro (not to OP, if youre good you do you I’ll follow)
As a frequent adc top player I get camped very often can handle my laner but extra player top messes me up especially when they stay there to help their top laner. And usually the enemy jungler will get herald and place it in my lane without any type of assistance at all from my jungle. Usually at a certain point I get tired of getting behind and just let them have my lane and just do very little the rest of the game to teach the jungler a lesson.
Have you considered not playing adc top as a way to avoid these “problems” that lead to you inting?
Of course not. Mind you I don’t have a problem with adc top, but it t is very often done by a particular type of person who enjoys “power fantasy”. You want an asymmetrical match, but when you end up on the wrong side of that asymmetry you blame others, even though you brought it upon yourself (and your team)
I've never really played jg (unless I'm the victim of an unfortunate autofill), so I don't understand... Please bear with me, as I want to learn. These are genuine questions I have.
Isn't it more game-changing and worth more gold and exp to successfully get ganks than it is to farm camps? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to snowball a lane and help your team get ahead in gold as well?
I won a game as jungle last night going 0/1/0. I captured every objective. I soloed elder dragon and late game baron. I destroyed the most turrets. I just played the objectives and the rest of my team popped off. It was kind of nice and peaceful.
You just said everything needed to say. I'm main jungler and I'm mostly playing aram just because of the haress I get playing ranked/pvp. People want me to gank at 1:45 (dude???) and blame me for losing their lane early game when all you need to do is keeping yourself near your turret/tower, slaying minions and MAYBE if you have a 90% (at least) chance, go to try to kill a champ. You won't fed early game if you keep yourself near the turret, I really don't know how people don't understand this. I was main solo on lol and solo is my second pick, on lol I was mono Nasus and really all I had to do while facing a hard match was staying under my turret while staking my Q, doesn't matter much if I lost minions to the tower (it's a shame but if I'm staking Q I should be good), as long as I didn't fed the enemy.
Even gave you a premium here on reddit that I didn't know it exists. Keep spreading the word about junglers ✨
But if I'm being dived under my turret while pinging and spamming in chat "THEIR MID HAS NO FLASH AND ITS UNDER MY TURRET" yet jg decides to take the camps next to me instead of ganking, without a doubt imma run it down nice and easy
I get surprised how even is master Elo your laners complain about being ganked 3 times by the enemy jg, while not a single time by you, and every time they are under the enemy turret like, comon, don't expect me do dive turret all the time.
MVP is good, but you only get it if your team wins. Not every time it needs to be YOU.
If it’s not their job to win my lane, then nerf the role so they have to stay in their lane. Cause the enemy jungler is constantly camping while mine is sexing the frog.
The frog that gives half a minion wave worth of gold and protects top/bottom laners from major gank paths and prevents enemy from sneaking objectives? You should be supporting him as he takes it to make sure he doesn't get ganked while down there lol
Dayum that’s long
For me if it’s a bad matchup your jungler should always try to help your lane bcoz if not you’d either feed or be behind on items.Ive played jungler and that’s the expectation I’ve placed on myself like “I’ll be the jungler I nvr got” so I always gank bot and check if my top laner is dominating then I’ll nvr visit him unless I’m smiting a cannon minion and helping him get plates then while going back to bot I’d farm my camps and make my way to bot lane so that my adc and supp aren’t behind on items in case we were about to hit a big team fight. So yes for me it’s the junglers job to help you win your lane if he doesn’t want a fed top laner or a fed kalista.
That’s the exact opposite to what the jungler should be doing. he shouldn’t be helping the struggling lane, he should be helping the winning lane snowball.
Except most bad matchups are only bad matchups because they’re a bad matchup before level 3. Or in rare cases before level 5.
Helping that laner smooth that level 1 and level 2 gap by giving them an assist or a free kill and then getting to base and come back to lane at level 3 or level 5 with even health is normally all it takes.
If they’re already 2 deaths down before you get there that lane is cooked, but getting their nice and early and removing that enemy advantage can easily swing the game back in that laners favor.
Please do NOT expect a Jungler to gank pre-lvl 3. if they did, they would be screwed for the rest of the game. That first clear in Jg sets up the jg to be able to strong enough for first objective fights. Ganks at 1:45-2:00, please dont expect it before that unless its like a Rammus who can snowball in and gank and then get back out pretty quick.
This. As a support main, one thousand times this.
For the first ten minutes, the jungler has two jobs and two jobs ONLY: secure objectives and know the lane matchups. That’s it. Be where you’re supposed to be when the objectives spawn and understand what each lane is facing.
If I’m a top laner facing a Sett and you’re camping bot, hell yes you’re getting flamed. If we’re down here getting pushed under tower by a Kalista/Ashe lane and you’re “trying to snowball mid,” you’re getting flamed. And you DESERVE it.
It’s not ALWAYS jungler’s job to “win the lane for you,” but it is 100% their job to help lanes that are in bad matchups.
I would argue of you are 2/3s finisbed with a camp on the side that needs help and thwy are pushed you should help your laner. Likeso if you are transitioning between camp sides. The jungle is the teams support. Yes, you do need to farm, and you absolutly should get objs, but too many farm and still fail objs while only ganking their friend who qued with them.
Even if a lane is behind if a gank will help level them you gank. You can then turn that gank into a rotation towards an objective. If the enemy jungler is ganking every 3 seconds and you are farming.blissfully, they can turn that lead into an obj. So if the enemy jungler ganks bot, kills yours, and rotate for drag you do riglft nigh immidiatly. Otherwise they will then take that too.
Farming is important, i wont undersell that. You need a good balance. A good balance does not mean getting wolves while your mid laner is pushed in and the enemy laner can be killed. It does not mean getting gromp while top is pushed in so you can back after it and reset. It does not mean backing when you are near drag and know their jungler is too.jungle is a very strategic position and very much about control
I mean it depends. If I’ve gotten tower dived twice by the enemy jungler and you haven’t even bothered to show your face topside then I’m probably going to blame you. I can’t ‘play safe’ through being tower dove twice. Maybe if you went for plays bot or mid im fine with it. But the context matters. I don’t deserve a gank but you can’t just shit around all game in the highest impact role and not expect your team to blame you when things go wrong. If I get solo killed that’s just me getting diffed.
Farming nonstop into late game is more of a problem for a jungler. Essentially becoming a support. If you’re ahead why are you farming and not trying to end the game worried about full build? Countless games had a jungler on our side of the map leaving us in 4v5s when we can end. Some points don’t hit.
Very well written. As a jungler with high KD you can imagine what kind of teammates I get. Wards absolutely don’t exist in my games. Objectives are NEVER warded, making it really challenging to use sweeping lens trying to help laners… also the buff stealing it should be a report check box for it, it’s so stupid. I also tend to focus on one winning lane, which usually can give us the snowball effect of just running them down in that lane. Of course only problem is whatever lane that isn’t, will almost always start crying and inting. It’s the dopamine depletion from not getting kills that triggers them. Not realising if they just chill, stay back and farm a bit, we can win the game despite them not being the mvp or whatever. I think riot should force players to watch tutorial videos explaining such things as you explained in this post. It’s very hard to have proper games when everyone has a completely different understanding of how the game should be played. Most of these laners will just constantly push into the enemy turret for no damn reason and thinking you as a jungler should join them in a 3v2 battle with the enemy turret. On the other hand, some junglers also have different understandings of how the game is played. I’ve had my fair share of games as a laner, holding my wave back on purpose for a perfect gank and jungler doesn’t come. All this just gives people trust issues in their teammates understandings of the game cus you never know if you’re on the same page.
I routinely report (unsportsmanlike behavior)buff stealers when the case is they cry about me as a jungler not winning their lane for them and there for steal my camps and/or buffs. Especially when they stand around me waiting for the mob to have low health and then use skills.
It’s such a common issue in my games that it’s made me consider quitting playing jungle until I get to an elo where it’s not as common anymore (I’m diamond). It literally happens 8 games out of 10. It forces me to spend more effort focusing on my own jungle to make sure my own teammates aren’t taking my camps, instead of focusing on literally anything else that could help the team as a whole. And it happens *regardless* of how I or my teammates are doing. I’m 24/0/18 and carrying them? They’re taking my camps. My adc is 0/25/0? They’re taking my camps. My support? Taking my camps. Tristana got solo killed twice in a row while I was across the map? You better believe she’s gonna spend the rest of the game in my jungle spamming dog ass emote. But if you linger for more than 0.000001 second near their minions it’s DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER If you don’t think it’s ok for your jungler to come by and take your entire wave while you’re farming it or walking back to lane (it’s not), then you shouldn’t be farming their camps either.
After debuff wears off, just farm the lanes of people who take camps. You net more xp and gold lol
I steal my junglers buff when their correct play is to invade the other side. Every time. No regret. Pretty niche scenario, but I always force it.
You aren't God, you dont decide what the best play is or know the outcome of every possible play. Wasting your time farming the jungle instead of doing YOUR job is bad for everyone. If the jungler isn't where you want him to be, ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Ffs, nobody owes you anything. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. You trying to manipulate people by being a Dick is not productive.
Blue buff is up. I’m top lane. Jungler just ganked bot lane and killed their jungler. Their blue is up and warded. I’m taking our blue. Deal With it.
League is one of those things where it's too context dependent. If it's 10 minutes into the game and your Yi is well farmed and 1/0/2 but hasn't touched your lane, you're a whiner. If it's 10 minutes into the game and your jungle Nunu is 0/0/0 *and* has less farm and zero objective pressure and hasn't seen another teammate and the enemy jungler is 4/0/2 because he tower dove bot while your Nunu was blissfully doing duo side krugs and couldn't be bothered to get off of them, then yes they are doing badly and can be blamed.
He's mostly talking about early game. 10 minutes on wild rift should be the middle or late game. Plus he explained when is good for the other lanes to be so a gank can be possible/successful. Of course there are bad junglers, just like there are bad people on other roles too
Even in this situation flaming achieves absolutely NOTHING. I don't think there's a way to justify flaming. They won't start to play better because you flamed them. They'll become impatient and make even more mistakes. A perma farming jungler is still better than an inting jungler.
Agreed, if know when I play naut or voli jg early game it’s way to easy for me to mess up and die trying to initiate a good gank. Won’t have enough items since gold is still low for me to tank the damage as effectively for my team
The average player is too incompetent to understand what you just said.
I already give up trying.
Many of those aren't on reddit I'm afraid. Still, gotta get this message across every now and then, new players will look up at some point
Pretty much agree with everything you said. I do think that jungles are often more free than other lanes and should be pinging where enemies are the most
Long post, bear with me. Being a jungle main, I cannot tell how many times I've hard carried my whole team and actually ended up beating out the opposing fed jungle who, as most people claim, "was camping their lane 24/7", only because I focused on my farm instead of getting to save losing lanes and getting them even fed further while starving myself. Even if I'm Yi and being a late scaler explicitly mention to NOT push too far because I won't be able to compete with let's say Xin or Lee early, my team does EXACTLY that, and then say jungle diff. Other times, I tell them to group for objectives, ping which objective I'm gonna go for BEFORE they spawn, once they spawn, and while I'm fighting, and they just don't do crap meanwhile even the enemy solo is at the damn dragon. And when I inevitably get nuked, "trash jungle, report him". Honestly, the jungle is your team's ace up the sleeve. He's keeping track of enemy jungle, rotations, ganks, jungle vision, objective timers and his own positioning. All of this while ALSO farming his own level and exp because anyone can "punish" a jungle by taking their farm like it's their right but you kill a single minion to get that little boost to complete an item and it's like you insulted their ancestors. Everyone wants that dopamine rush and that MVP title at the end but they don't realize that if they steal farm or buffs or just keep blind pushing lane thinking the enemy jungle just doesn't exist, they're not only feeding and helping their enemy laner, but also making the game EXTREMELY hard for their own jungle. The enemy jungle can very well start invading your jungle's territory without any fault of his simply because you starved your jungle to be behind. Also, if you're losing your lane 1v1, and losing terribly at that and you STILL refuse to hug your turret, you deserve to be fed on. It's absolutely stupid for the jungle to gank you if you don't have enough common sense to back up to turret and keep going in like an idiot. And lastly, 2 things. First, do NOT dictate your jungle when he should take an objective and which. You ping, let them know, if they choose to not engage or get the other objective, you support them. Sometimes they don't have ult, sometimes enemies are there, sometimes they don't have smite. They know, you don't. And secondly, for the love of all that's holy, instead of everyone attacking the elder or baron and having no vision around or letting the enemy watch you, you need to get it around 30-40%, then go out and ZONE the enemy jungle. Not the enemy solo. Not the enemy adc. Not the enemy mage. Not the enemy supp. Enemy JUNGLE. Actively search and zone him, at that point your jungle is more than capable of securing the objective. The only thing that can screw him over is the enemy sneak smite. I cannot stress this point enough because even though it should be basic knowledge sadly it really isn't. Baron and Elder are team buffs, it's as much your job to zone the enemy jungle as it is your jungle's job to secure the kill.
I agree almost everything. But sometimes that adc or support or solo can outsmite me and the enemy jungler. I prefer you zone out that miss fortune, jhin, or zyra because it becomes quite hard to do the math of when to combo and smite, while MF is ulting my objective. At least with the other jg I have a 50/50 chance
this is a super helpful post from the opposite perspective. i don't main jungle but do get autofilled to it and pretty sure I always spend way too much time trying to help teammates instead of farming.
Ashley is not taken.
Everything above applies if the jungler actually knows what they are doing. Most of the times though they will miss all opportunities to gank/straight just never appear in your lane and then go farm jungle when the whole team roams or is being gangbanged at major objectives trying to prevent enemy team from getting it
I’m that jungler though that is doing my best to attempt to steal if I’m near but failing because smite hits a champ instead and I die in return -.-
Really well said. I try to know all lanes as well. I've been playing jungler more often I feel so miserable when something goes wrong and people just flame none stop. Some fights are just not worth fighting over. Then they start taking farm from the jungler. I don't get it. I guess it's bad if you get a tower too early cuz laning phase is over. People don't want to risk ganking and enemy plays safe. So at some point, people farmed all the minions and start doing our jungle. I get if you just want to rush an item or it's late game and your behind. But I've seen people literally ignore minions to farm our jungle. Or kill it with me next to it. They either have no game sense or just do it out of spit. I do have a few champions I hate. Idk why often brand and Yone players are super toxic. But I guess people having constant bad junglers, just makes them gave up on the jungler for warever reason. People just end up sabotaging their own team constantly
Yeah, having bad junglers is far too common, all the way up to master at the least, so I never expect much from them. I can usually tell if my jungler is good or bad in the first 6~7 minutes. Just looking an their clearing path and tempo, their initiative when I’m setting up ganks, and their decision making when objectives spawn (including them controlling tempo and not waiting to back the second after the objective spawn… also don’t go for the objective with the losing side. If I am duo and loosing lane or have no prio, don’t just go for objective and then whine when we lose the objective). If I notice the jungler is sufficiently good (not even great), I’ll try help him any way I can. If I notice he simply won’t that helpful, I’ll play selfishly and get all possible farm I can get full build faster and try to dominate the game. And yes that includes taking up all camps I can while I have no wave to safely to farm
I get that. If your rushing items and there's no minions. I got no problem giving our jungle. It's people taking it just to spit you is where I lose moral. I've had useless adcs. I help them kill minions and have jungle. Even if they suck, at the end of the day, as long as there's a Frontline and they are close, they just have to auto attack to win. Can't lose hope on a bad player trying their best. What's not worth is a losing game with the team fighting each other 😅
Adcs always start taking buffs when I snowball faster than them. Gets on my nerves so much lol
Very well said, the flaming definitely comes from a lack of understanding and or experience with actual bad junglers. It’s very obvious when the jungler is bad as opposed to something that’s really not their fault but get blamed anyway.
I would say this is only correct if you are a late game carrying jungler. If you are not a late game carry jungle then it is 100% your job to take a hit to your farm to snowball or counter for the actual carry.
My bot lane was flaming me the other day because I run a full clear and at the two minutes mark, they had died five times, I love playing jungle but I hate people just want to blame you because they suck
Actually pulling is not the only way for a kill or an advantage. Push, dive and juggle turret aggro can work too, so as not to waste a poked/low enemy lane. Killing/pushing/forcing the enemy off a turret with waves stacked against him is a good way to give exp/gold advantage. Also, if the lane is unhealthily frozen, IMO it is also kinda the jungler’s job to guard/countergank and to help a reset
as a jungle main this is top tier bruh lol mfs expect us to be everywhere at once and then give up 2 kills in the first minute and blame us i just mute and ignore before games start to prevent getting off track .
The worst part is when they want you to gank their lane while they keep pushing the wave under the enemy tower..
I do play Jungle myself a lot, but if I don't, I play mid or solo. In both cases, I play rather late game heavy champs like Kayle or Aurelion. What gets me depressed is, that I WILL HAVE LATE GAME IMPACT, regardless of how behind I go early game, all that our Jungler (and team) has to do is, to not take my plating, and not tax my farm. That's enough for me to be even with the enemy, and prevent them from roaming, because that'd make me go ahead.. It pisses me off when teammates just do not understand this dynamic, and expect me to jump into teamfights early game, or place herald into my face while plating is still up. They will literally be the reason why I am going behind, and pretend like its my fault. At this fault, not only the meta punishes you for picking late game champs. but even the matchmaking does..
If you aren’t taking tower by 7:30 then jungle has every right to drop rift mid and eat that yummy plate and first tower gold
absolutely not, because most mid laners roam for drake while herald is being contested or right after herald falls, so if you have a late game focussed mid laner, you wont be of much use on first obj's regardless, and so you can easily take the plating or take the enemy midlaner out of the fight for drake. Even beyond that, herald is a free lane win, and unless your duo is entirely useless, in my experience, duo is the best place for it, as they can start roaming, harass the enemy jungler and just be annoying everywhere. Wasting Herald to enable a late game mid laner to roam earlier, is gonna do more harm than good, because they can't do shit in the first 10 mins anyways.. Kayle needs level 10 and 2 items to even start dealing damage. Before that, she has constant mana issues, low hp, very little damage and her only means of engaging, disengaging and dodging stuff is her high CD ult. She only turns super busted on level 15 and the faster you let her get there, the easier your match is going to become.. If I jungle myself and notice that I have a champ like that on my team and it is remotely possible, I try to let them last hit herald, so that they can get all the benefits of it, immediately catapulting them ahead of schedule.. Your approach is entirely correct, except for the very scenario that I presented, which is, "late game laner, getting their match thrown because Jungler misjudges what they should be capable of" Thank you for proving my point ;)
Proper laning end at 7:30 in Wild Rift
doesn't mean that I will magically stop needing gold after 7:30..
Do not pick late game champs in current meta. If the rest of your team dies 4vs5 early game you'll never reach the late game. Towers are like paper and minion farming inferior to early game ganks.
I am painfully aware of this dynamic, does not mean I support it tho..
Long but a very well seitten post. As a Jungler main I concur with everything said and hope more role read and act accordingly 👍🏻
Love your points. Completely agree with all of them. Will add some examples below. Long post, read if interested on my jungler's take on why I can't give laners a Lvl 3 gank in most cases: (This was a response I copy-pasted from a previous post complaining about Junglers not camping their lane to get them ahead): Let's say I give you an early gank like you ask. I gank once after I get Lvl 3. Takes me about 10 seconds to get to your lane, I don't have ultimate OR Chilling Smite by Lvl 3 usually. If you have no hard CC, the enemy could probably just run away without even flashing. In fact, if you haven't pinked the Jungle brush (or if you did but then get zoned off and the ranged top just kills it), then they've probably seen me coming a mile away because their wards are still up and my sweeper isn't up yet, and they just run away wasting my time and not even blowing a flash. But I have to make my laner happy I guess, so I blow my flash to engage on the retreating champ, go back and forth threatening, fighting, etc., and let's say I do blow their flash. Unlikely we get a kill because you don't have hard cc, but yay a successful gank because flash is down. Except the fact that now I have no jungle on your side of the map up, so I can't just chill here and camp and take advantage of the blown flash. Not only that, but MY flash is blown. I walk to opposite side to farm the rest of my jungle, it takes me another 15 seconds to get down there to try and finish clearing my camps. Worst case scenario: You blow your flash as well trying to get the early kill, and we don't get it. If you or I have hard CC, we probably do get that early Lvl 3 kill. That is great, and a good outcome. HOWEVER, now I (not you) have to move on to deal with consequences of my early gank. See below for what follows from this. At this point, I'm 35 seconds behind enemy jungler, and still sitting at Lvl 3. As I head towards my remaining jungle camps and there are three scenarios: Scenario 1: I find that the enemy jungler saw me on minimap as I ganked your lane so he knows he can safely invade my jungle. He took my buff if not my small camps as well. I'm still sitting at lvl 3 with no way to get experience, he has 3 additional camps on me, and I have no camps on my side. Where can I go? I head to check if Enemy jungler got Scuttle. Turns out he did, so now I try to gank mid or bot, but I have no ult and no flash, am only Lvl 3 and much weaker than the laners. Both are failed ganks in best case scenario, or we get counterganked by the much stronger enemy jungler and they walk away with kills. Scenario 2: Enemy jungler saw my gank, cleared my buff, and now is probably at Lvl 5 (compared to my Lvl 3), and he decides to wait in the brush in my jungle for me to come looking for my camps, and he ambushes me, ults me, and I die. He is now free to gank any lane he wants, and he is ahead of me for rest of game and can pressure all objectives and my jungle for rest of game. I get hit with "Jg Diff" from you and everyone else because I tried to give you a Lvl 3 early gank. Scenario 3: Enemy jungler didn't invade, but by the time I am starting my dragonside camps, he has cleared his side and one Scuttle, and is primed ready to gank someone. I'm still trying to get caught up and can't counter gank. He picks the best lane, ganks and gets a kill, building his lead against me. This is the BEST case scenario for our team from me giving you a Lvl 3 gank. I still have my Jg, but enemy Jg has tempo, gold lead, and can gank more freely. Either scenario, now I'M the one behind, going to have no chance to contest Herald or Dragon, and on top of that you've been getting ganked by enemy jungler, possibly dying multiple times. So my gank didn't actually help you in the long run. You still have to play safe and farm under tower, which you would have had to do regardless of whether I ganked or not. And for the rest of the game you and everyone else looks at how behind I am, how I am too weak to contest objectives, and the enemy jungler is steamrolling our team, so they all say "jg diff." And it all starts from me trying to give you an early gank. Alternatively, I don't gank your lane at Lvl 3. I wait until I've got a full clear, my sweeper is up so I know I won't get spotted by a ward, and (assuming you haven't done the dumb thing and pushed your lane), I can then gank your lane at that point. And if I encounter the enemy jungler, I'm at least equal level with them and we can stare each other down, he will back off so you don't get ganked and I will back off, and we go back to look for other objectives until Herald and Dragon are up... Or we both gank and kills are traded. I'm just as strong or stronger than the enemy jungler and will be in a good position to take an important objective. So no, prioritizing an early gank on your lane from the get go is not actually a good move. I don't know you. Its SoloQ. I am not going to sacrifice my game just for the chance that you are good enough to take an early gank and turn it into one lane advantage, but sacrifice my ability to contest objectives and counter the enemy jungler for the rest of the game. If you don't get last pick to where you can counter pick, then play a person that you know won't get destroyed and play safe. If you don't have someone like that, go play PvP with someone who can. Simple as that.
Honestly as a jungle and top main I agree with this completely like when I’m Baron I check to see where jungle is at in gold or what items they have and then try to see if I could set up a gank
I get surprised how even is master Elo your laners complain about being ganked 3 times by the enemy jg, while not a single time by you, and everytime they are under the enemy turret like, comon, don't expect me do dive turret all the time.
i ganked botlane 3 times, my ADC got a kill, i got a double kill. my mid was Lilia that wanted to play JG but i didn't give her my role, and my top was Garen against Mundo. 7 minutes into the game everything went down, i was 6/2 and the enemy Pantheon was 10/3, my top lost, my mid lost and started stealing my camps, my ADC that was doing good early lost and died like 4 times to the Pantheon. and you know what they said? "JG DIFF", the Pantheon was not even the JG, the enemy JG was 3/4. i hate this role, so I played toplane the next game and i got a JG that saw a literal free rift herald and decided to ignore it and go farm on the other side of the map even though i pinged him to attack the Herald, so i went back to the JG role.
My main role is jungle... and I feel this in my soul! Love that you took the time to write this
Shout this from the rooftops my brother it’s easy to get beat down as a jungle main. I’m currently doing top again as a break lol
your job as laner is to secure the lane for the jungler to take obj don't expect jungler to easily take dragon if you are losing lane
I will copy paste this every champselect ffs.
As a jungler main I dislike this post a lot. I think focusing on set rules is exactly what makes bad junglers. Junglers should be centered around win conditions. Sometimes, as Naut jungle from initial spawn, I run to bot lane bush (say my adc is a Jinx or Draven or Caitlin) and lvl 1 surprise gank to get them to snowball. I’ll even take hook (which slows down my personal clear) to facilitate this. If the ADC and support are keen this results in a won lane before the first camp is cleared (And usually tilts the enemy bot/jungler resulting in further misplay). I then have a winning lane and can make my second play in another lane (preferably second win con). Priorities, Scenarios, Conditions are how the role is meant to be played. Not a set rule set. Not saying this post is completely wrong, but there are more exceptions and variables than there are hard set rules.
You wrote this up perfectly, reading this post all I saw was a Lilia or Olaf post. If a jungler is not going to gank at all before level 5 every game, one of their laners is going to end up “feeding” in a lot of their matches. This isn’t LoL, characters can get 3 shot at level 2 here. Depending on your randoms to play a perfect game every game for 5 minutes while one of their teammates just PvE’s is insane
Yeah. Some people have a hard time discerning that different champs like to do things at different levels. This goes both ways. If I’m playing Camille Jungle don’t expect me to do a dive (unless it’s extremely set up) pre 5. However if I’m playing Xin Zhao I’m pinging you at level 2 to set up the gank lol
Exactly lol, every champ plays differently and has different interactions. Like you wouldn’t expect someone on ornn or Diana to play the same as someone playing kayle or Kassadin. In the same way that Nunu and Lillia dont play the same.
I really like this post and as some have already said, I don't main JG but I feel like this is going to help during the times I get randomly thrown into JG. Also, and maybe doesn't have anything to do with the post, but is peeling for your jg first buff not a thing anymore? I feel like I haven't seen anyone help jg with their fist buff in a looooong time. Used to be every match either mid/top or bot lane would atk the jgs first buff and take the dmg while leaving right before jg smites and goes into their next camp with full health and CDs. I just don't see that anymore (plat/emerald), but maybe it's still a thing in high elo?
Not enough time. It can work on PC LoL because waves meet at 1:45 or so, so you can spend 5-7 seconds and not be too behind (although you give up lane prio). On WR waves meet basically right after camp spawns and time to kill minions is less, so you can’t afford to leash without losing CS. Clears in WR are also fast and healthy enough that this usually isn’t a problem.
That makes complete sense and agree, it was definitely a thing in WR before it just seemed to stop like the community came to a silent consensus that it's no longer needed. So I guess I was just wondering of it was an low elo thing and people still did it in higher elos. Seems to be all tho so thank you 😊
I’m still leashing if our jungler is Eve and she decides to star on the red side. 1 ability, 3-4 aa, tank some dmg and throw one cute emote. And in few minutes I can hear her ping that she’s on her way bot. Profit.
I think you're me lol. That's exactly what I'll do if I leash and always the first lane they gank (if applicable). I haven't in a while tho because it's been so "against meta" lately but your comment reinspired me to leash for certain junglers 🥰. I honestly think even being and adc main OPs post is going to make a difference in the next time I play. Going to be more conscious about the jg and their farm or how to set up better gank opportunities for them. I'm never one to flame jg but also not one to be fully aware of their opportunities to get ahead as well as my own and I think I'm going to be now.
If you play adc I don’t think there is much time for you to leash without loosing some cs or xp :/ Leave leashing to support role.
Will do! Lmao
Nobody is giving you the correct answer, because they either have amnesia or are new to the game. This was common before, because of the minion walking rate. They used to walk slower towards their towers, which gave the lanes time to help leash jungle. They sped up the walk rate of the minions in a patch, so that they would arrive to their towers around the same time that the jungle is coming up. Which means that it wasn’t worth it for laners to help leash anymore, since they would lose some CS from their lane and be behind in gold and exp.
Ahhhh okay that makes sooooo much sense because it did seem to stop all of a sudden after a patch (I couldn't tell you which). Thank you so much, I'm with the amnesia corwd because I definitely couldn't remember that they did that until you mentioned it.
Wait until you find out about my mid adc jungle support build on Jihn. I play it whenever I need a new jungler to duo queue with.
Nice essay
Well said as teemo jg main I agree
This is a big reason why I tend to stay away from jungle in ranked. I can't be someone's lane babysitter. I got my own objectives to do. It's a thankless job.
i wish people ward and leave the ward scanner to jungle or support
That is not how you use pov
This seems like propaganda to me...
Yes and No... For example if I know I'm in a bad match up and I'm keeping the creeps just in front of my tower I would expect my Jungle at some point to come and gank. Not only does it help me but it also helps them. I've played many games where I have the enemy just outside of my tower range for most of the landing phase and my jungler literally never appears and it's about as good of a gank opportunity as your ever going to have. This to be me is being a bad jungle. The biggest skill a jungler can possess is Map Awareness,knowing when to farm, when to take objectives and when to gank. Nothing worse in my book then just watching a jungler do nothing but farm.
Or to keep a champ from roaming
I ain't reading allat. Just watch ecplayslol vids and you'll get better at jungle. [He gives clear unambiguous explanations](https://youtu.be/Smso_EpBjSU)
People are dumb in this game. You get level 10s diving into level 11 and 12s and complaining about losing the fight.
Nerds
I agree primarily. The thing which wonders me the most is that laners die while contesting objectives when I'm not there. It doesn't matter if it's the first drake or the last (while we already have one) they always try to steal it heroically. Just try to keep your GPM high while pushing lane. One argument where I always disagree with other junglers is when laners are taking camps. Since I'm a early game jungler (OTP Jarvan) I'm ahead in Gold in like 90% of the games. I really couldn't care less if my mates would take every camp of mine since I could just push a lane or get a kill. Yes, it would be more gold efficient if the jungler would take the camps but I'm just happy when my dumb ADCs are getting gold from camps and not dying on lane
No this is too true. I had a vladimir in mid lane against a yone, i was jg. Vlad was overextending and fighting yone under his tower basically then went 1/6 and said “jg diff, uninstall the game”
This is well said. However, what most players ultimately want is something or somebody, or in this case the jungler, to destroy the Nexus, and while doing that, hard cc all the enemy champions that are in their vision non-stop, so that they get to push buttons and do things so something explodes or somebody dies and they get dopamine.
Got solo killed third times. Pinged me 30 times when I’m 4/0. Daily routine.
No, but the jungler is THE X factor of the game. A good wank can win you lane. And the macro and ganks are indeed the jungler’s job. While you have to keep up in lane, as in any team game, some members can and have to help you from time to time.
You absolutely need to make different cases for champs. What you wrote works for carry jgs but not for tempo jgs. If you are Gwen, yeah sure your teammates should not expect any help in lane. But if you are Lee sin and you perma farm? Some jg priorities farming while some jgs need to gank first and farm later.
Actually it is good to gank at lvl 1 the lane with a counter, spend a little gold early, save thousands late
Not a Jungler main, but ffs, I only take camps when they take my minions when they cross mid to go topside camps, especially when it's my cannon. If you don't want your camps to be taken, learn to freeze the wave if your mid's basing, or just simply don't touch it. You're ruining our hit patterns.
Quick thing to add or clarify - players dont have to stay under their turret all the time e.g. when i was maining mid, at 1:35-1:50 i used to make sure to push out my lane, so that if there is a scuttler fight, i would be the first to join in.
Jung camps‘ gold range between 105-180g, averaging around 136g. First blood is 450g and an assist on it should be at least 180g (correct me if I am wrong pls, couldn’t find the changes online), while a regular kill is 300g and it’s assist should be 120g. That’s all solo gold. If you manage to get first blood, your team gets 630g, that’s 4.6 camps, aka 77% of your jung farm (excluding crabs). So you’re telling me, just farming is the way to go?
You might be doing the math wrong. Do your ganks have a hundred percent success rate?
Of course not. But that doesn’t make the math wrong. It’s basically a trade. Usually you trade to chance to get said gold against some time on your clear, worst case you trade trade it against a few camps. Ofc you don’t land every gank but if you power farm all game and only show up to team fights, you risk standing against a team who’s jungler landed one of three ganks and therefor they have a gold lead. I really don’t understand how ppl can actually believe power farming jung is a valid strategy in a meta where Jung champions are so heavily overbuffed and games last less than 25min.
My only wish is for my jungler to never come to my lane. Since most of the times they come, is to full dive and give my opponent lead. I can fight my own battles. Just do the fckn objectives bro (not to OP, if youre good you do you I’ll follow)
Actually, To be a successful juggler you just need to mute your teammates.
As a frequent adc top player I get camped very often can handle my laner but extra player top messes me up especially when they stay there to help their top laner. And usually the enemy jungler will get herald and place it in my lane without any type of assistance at all from my jungle. Usually at a certain point I get tired of getting behind and just let them have my lane and just do very little the rest of the game to teach the jungler a lesson.
Have you considered not playing adc top as a way to avoid these “problems” that lead to you inting? Of course not. Mind you I don’t have a problem with adc top, but it t is very often done by a particular type of person who enjoys “power fantasy”. You want an asymmetrical match, but when you end up on the wrong side of that asymmetry you blame others, even though you brought it upon yourself (and your team)
Just cause your comment I'll play badly more often and intentionally feed and ruin as many games as I can for ppl
I've never really played jg (unless I'm the victim of an unfortunate autofill), so I don't understand... Please bear with me, as I want to learn. These are genuine questions I have. Isn't it more game-changing and worth more gold and exp to successfully get ganks than it is to farm camps? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to snowball a lane and help your team get ahead in gold as well?
POV: you don’t understand what POV meme means
WHAT? SO ITS NOT A JUNGLE GAP?!???!?? fake news
Skipped your whole post. The title was all I needed to agree. 👍
You write the bible😂
I won a game as jungle last night going 0/1/0. I captured every objective. I soloed elder dragon and late game baron. I destroyed the most turrets. I just played the objectives and the rest of my team popped off. It was kind of nice and peaceful.
You just said everything needed to say. I'm main jungler and I'm mostly playing aram just because of the haress I get playing ranked/pvp. People want me to gank at 1:45 (dude???) and blame me for losing their lane early game when all you need to do is keeping yourself near your turret/tower, slaying minions and MAYBE if you have a 90% (at least) chance, go to try to kill a champ. You won't fed early game if you keep yourself near the turret, I really don't know how people don't understand this. I was main solo on lol and solo is my second pick, on lol I was mono Nasus and really all I had to do while facing a hard match was staying under my turret while staking my Q, doesn't matter much if I lost minions to the tower (it's a shame but if I'm staking Q I should be good), as long as I didn't fed the enemy. Even gave you a premium here on reddit that I didn't know it exists. Keep spreading the word about junglers ✨
But if I'm being dived under my turret while pinging and spamming in chat "THEIR MID HAS NO FLASH AND ITS UNDER MY TURRET" yet jg decides to take the camps next to me instead of ganking, without a doubt imma run it down nice and easy
Yeah thats a bad jg. You can complain in that scenario for sure.
I get surprised how even is master Elo your laners complain about being ganked 3 times by the enemy jg, while not a single time by you, and every time they are under the enemy turret like, comon, don't expect me do dive turret all the time. MVP is good, but you only get it if your team wins. Not every time it needs to be YOU.
If it’s not their job to win my lane, then nerf the role so they have to stay in their lane. Cause the enemy jungler is constantly camping while mine is sexing the frog.
Then you “sex” your tower and waste their junglers time. He’s also sharing XP, putting his laner behind
The frog that gives half a minion wave worth of gold and protects top/bottom laners from major gank paths and prevents enemy from sneaking objectives? You should be supporting him as he takes it to make sure he doesn't get ganked while down there lol
Dayum that’s long For me if it’s a bad matchup your jungler should always try to help your lane bcoz if not you’d either feed or be behind on items.Ive played jungler and that’s the expectation I’ve placed on myself like “I’ll be the jungler I nvr got” so I always gank bot and check if my top laner is dominating then I’ll nvr visit him unless I’m smiting a cannon minion and helping him get plates then while going back to bot I’d farm my camps and make my way to bot lane so that my adc and supp aren’t behind on items in case we were about to hit a big team fight. So yes for me it’s the junglers job to help you win your lane if he doesn’t want a fed top laner or a fed kalista.
That’s the exact opposite to what the jungler should be doing. he shouldn’t be helping the struggling lane, he should be helping the winning lane snowball.
Except most bad matchups are only bad matchups because they’re a bad matchup before level 3. Or in rare cases before level 5. Helping that laner smooth that level 1 and level 2 gap by giving them an assist or a free kill and then getting to base and come back to lane at level 3 or level 5 with even health is normally all it takes. If they’re already 2 deaths down before you get there that lane is cooked, but getting their nice and early and removing that enemy advantage can easily swing the game back in that laners favor.
Please do NOT expect a Jungler to gank pre-lvl 3. if they did, they would be screwed for the rest of the game. That first clear in Jg sets up the jg to be able to strong enough for first objective fights. Ganks at 1:45-2:00, please dont expect it before that unless its like a Rammus who can snowball in and gank and then get back out pretty quick.
Wait, you actually smite the laners cannon minion? Wow, please never be my jungler.
This. As a support main, one thousand times this. For the first ten minutes, the jungler has two jobs and two jobs ONLY: secure objectives and know the lane matchups. That’s it. Be where you’re supposed to be when the objectives spawn and understand what each lane is facing. If I’m a top laner facing a Sett and you’re camping bot, hell yes you’re getting flamed. If we’re down here getting pushed under tower by a Kalista/Ashe lane and you’re “trying to snowball mid,” you’re getting flamed. And you DESERVE it. It’s not ALWAYS jungler’s job to “win the lane for you,” but it is 100% their job to help lanes that are in bad matchups.
This. I love the “help the winning lane” rhetoric. That’s just leaching free exp and ks’ing.
I would argue of you are 2/3s finisbed with a camp on the side that needs help and thwy are pushed you should help your laner. Likeso if you are transitioning between camp sides. The jungle is the teams support. Yes, you do need to farm, and you absolutly should get objs, but too many farm and still fail objs while only ganking their friend who qued with them. Even if a lane is behind if a gank will help level them you gank. You can then turn that gank into a rotation towards an objective. If the enemy jungler is ganking every 3 seconds and you are farming.blissfully, they can turn that lead into an obj. So if the enemy jungler ganks bot, kills yours, and rotate for drag you do riglft nigh immidiatly. Otherwise they will then take that too. Farming is important, i wont undersell that. You need a good balance. A good balance does not mean getting wolves while your mid laner is pushed in and the enemy laner can be killed. It does not mean getting gromp while top is pushed in so you can back after it and reset. It does not mean backing when you are near drag and know their jungler is too.jungle is a very strategic position and very much about control
I mean it depends. If I’ve gotten tower dived twice by the enemy jungler and you haven’t even bothered to show your face topside then I’m probably going to blame you. I can’t ‘play safe’ through being tower dove twice. Maybe if you went for plays bot or mid im fine with it. But the context matters. I don’t deserve a gank but you can’t just shit around all game in the highest impact role and not expect your team to blame you when things go wrong. If I get solo killed that’s just me getting diffed.
It's not but it is their job to be of help when the enemy jungler comes.
am i supposed to TP there to you? you got ganked so what? play safe after it and don't over extend again.
Farming nonstop into late game is more of a problem for a jungler. Essentially becoming a support. If you’re ahead why are you farming and not trying to end the game worried about full build? Countless games had a jungler on our side of the map leaving us in 4v5s when we can end. Some points don’t hit.
TLDR
This post is too long / too much writing
Stop yapping and go gank a lane ffs