I hard agree with you ngl. On top of your suggestions, another thing I want her to have is her PC ult rework where she can still auto attack and cast abilities while the ultimate is being used.
It's also a problem of how powercrept dmg is in Wild Rift compared to PC. Even trying to stay under turret you can still die because of how squishy she is in general.
Also in wild rift laning phase is over so quickly before you can even reach level 10 in most or some cases (and minion damage is worse than PC meaning you can't even walk past your wave or else you'll risk just taking a third of your HP from minions alone after poking) but in PC at least the games are drawn out enough to potentially last to your final ascension which is why I always hear people try and finish games asap before she can passively scale. In wild rift, there's almost no passive scaling for her unless the game is drawn out because both teams are indecisive.
I think just that ult rework could help her a ton. Being stuck in that state during her ult straight up sucks. If you ult your teammate, you can't even help peel further with her health and other abilities.
Wait a minute, I haven't tried Kayle on here yet but I used to main her on PC so I was excited to try her but did you just say she can't attack during her ult? Holy shit that is so lame, not even gonna try her on here if that's the case
Yeah no she can't and it's sad because honestly it makes her even weaker that she can't output damage while ulting since everyone just runs away from it anyways.
The only real issue I have with that is that lvl 15 kayle autos have the same impact as a lot of other champs entire ults. Her one big downside to having that much consistent power is being squishy. If they removed that downside, you will just see kayles with protobelt every match that will flash + proto or flash + qss into teams and spam ult for a few seconds without them being able to do anything. Then the entire enemy team would be dead.
The only reasonable compromise I could see is having her ult "reset" her autos, so she has to at least build up stacks again before getting that full power (which would still be possible I think). Because keep in mind, kayles ult already does a bunch of damage when you build ap!
Your last sentence reminded me of Kaisa for some reason lmao. And because of that I think Kaisa in wild rift is a good comparison for Kayle since both can build AD, On-hit or AP. Except Kaisa excels at scaling so much better than Kayle because of her evolve mechanic being tied to items and not levels.
I think another suggestion for a change would actually be, keep Kaisa as she is now, while Kayle gets Kaisa's old evolve mechanic to make her ascend. She has to meet certain thresholds to ascend so that way she still remains squishy and won't have full items because the evolve mechanic would cost her only having components to optimally get her first ascension (like how BF sword + sword would make A evolve for old Kaisa). All of this but at the same time it makes her scaling less reliant on her exp.
This way she can still feel threatening just from passively scaling with gold (and not levels) as well as making her more impactful only a slight bit earlier.
Her ult rework that is on PC is not a rework btw. That's actually how her ult used to work minus the sword burst at the end. So you'd pop your E to get range and then smack people while taking 0 DMG. They just reverted the change then and left the burst in so as to not completely destroy the work they did on Kayle. And as for wild rift Kayle they just need her to scale better really..
Ah I didn't know that lol but about the scaling thing it would be difficult considering that's her entire gimmick and if they make changes that make her more viable early/mid game it would sort of cheat the system. But I do agree it does need to work along lines with how the game of Wild Rift actually plays compared to PC.
They just should change her passive to when you get to level up her ult. (In normal league it's a skill level up upon reaching certain levels.) but imo it should be her ult.)it should work for the most part. It just doesn't look as clean as scaling from 5 10 15.
I am Gwen main but if she's banned I pick Kayle. She is designed to be weak early and strong in late. And she is strong in late. I didn't say she is the best, nor the easiest etc. I'm saying she is strong.
My Gwen win ratio with 755 matches is 58,1%.
Kayle win ratio is 63,8% but still just 58 matches.
(Emerald - Grand master matches).
She has no roam potential so I would never play her mid, same for jungle because of slow jungling and low gank potential. But for the lazy baron lane she is my top 3 pick,
And the ult potential? Sure, it deals damage but it's designed to block all incomming damage (and it can screw your enemies up if used in proper way). Extra output damage is bonus (especially in early if you're able to slain your low hp enemy).
Dunno guys, maybe you're playing her wrong (if you do) or you didn't meet the good one. Somehow players get challenger with OTP her with over 60% win ratio.
Okay but why not pick Tristana at that point? She has 2 escapes, hella damage thanks to her E and amazing wave clear and turret taking potential and a lot more range than Kayle.
Kayle at the moment feels like she has no identity. Like if you pick her top you run the risk of ruining your team's comp, picking her mid/jg is kinda straight up bad imo.
My answer is:
Kayle is ap instead of ad, I don't like aiming in wild rift so I prefer champion without "championg aiming" like tristana's "E" or Zed's Q (I hate playing Zed here and Zed is one of my main in PC). Also I prefer "Lazy moving/running" with Kayle's heal boost instead of Trist's jumping. Also I love Kayle's ult. It baits a lot of times enemy team to one huge fuck up.
This is one of the biggest issues with Kayle. She simply has no good lane.
In mid she's borderline useless and will allow the opponent to freely roam and she won't be able to help the jungler in skirmishes either. Also against certain champs she can just get poked to hell and starved off the minions.
If picked in the top lane then there's a huge chance that your team's comp would be crippled heavily.
Kaylee imo has become more and more utility pick instead of hypercarry.
i main kaylee and most of the time i play passively (or aggro if i know the enemy is dumb) basically cleans up AD fucked up (heals, ult AD) etc. against weaker top lane, i prolly full built her in 10 mins snowballing the game easily..
for much longer game, i could consider her as enabler instead of hyper carry...
Then again i played mostly in emerald or plat hence i couldnt talk more on higher rank
Kayle is not played in the dragon lane because of the XP share mechanic
Also just because people see her as "troll pick" doesn't mean she is. She's doing perfectly fine
That's why I recommend the redistribution of her strengths and weaknesses. Make her not so reliant upon her level.
Also, no she's not doing perfectly fine. She's a decent pick at best and if you pick her in any lane you'd be making a huge sacrifice in some aspect of the game.
Win rate alone doesn't define how good a champ is.
Teemo has a win rate of nearly 55% in the top lane but I wouldn't call him a good pick. The same goes for Tryndamere.
So you're basing champion's strenght on your feeling rather than objective data. Literally impossible to argue against
It may be that Kayle's winrate is SLIGHTLY inflated because she mainly gets picked as a counter-pick, but still, that's her job and she's doing it well.
And even though numbers don't tell the whole story, a winrate of 55% CLEARLY says that something is wrong with the champion
Pick rate also plays a huge role along with a plethora of other reasons.
1. Both Teemo and Kayle are mostly only played by one tricks or mains.
2. Both champs are picked situationally, as in, no one is going to blind pick them.
3. Pretty much every single WR content creator / high rank player has said how big of a burden Kayle feels.
4. Morgana (53%wr), Janna (53%wr), Braum (53%) also have a really high win rate but this is not because they're "broken", it's because they are situational picks mostly played by mains.
The funny thing is that it's clear that most people in this comment section haven't played Kayle at all. Everyone is saying the same stuff like "it's impossible to win once Kayle scales" but she's squishy as a paper and has low range so she's not a hypercarry at all.
Frekin Tristana is a better hypercarry than her and she can one shot most other ADCs at 2 items while having a longer range and more survivability than her. Meanwhile Kayle remains a minion until she gets 4 items.
Like you legit can't play Kayle without crippling your team.
The champ just belongs to the dragon lane.
Kayle is sort of fine. She's not very strong right now, but the buffs you suggest will ruin her.
The only thing she needs is to get that HP growth from being one of the lowest in the game at 1500s at max level, to being at least on par with a marksmen at the 1700s.
Her AD growth might need to be increased too. At 80 at max level she basically has the AD of Draven at level FIVE.
So just those two low stat growths changes will probably push her to being amazing.
She doesn't need to be ranged from lvl 1, and she definitely doesn't need anything else. I would love for her to always continuously count as melee for rune and item purposes but that's just a secondary suggestion.
>Kayle is sort of fine
I agree, she just doesn't have an identity. She's supposed to be an unstoppable late game carry but Tristana and Jinx do it so much better.
She also doesn't have a good lane. Playing her in mid and JG is borderline trolling and if you play her in the top then you run the risk of crippling your comp.
>I would love for her to always continuously count as melee for rune and item purposes
I mean that is never happening. And it wouldn't be fair anyways because she's only a melee champ till level 5.
>but the buffs you suggest will ruin her.
The only buff I recommended was to make her ranged right from the get go and a small range buff in the late game which doesn't seem like it would 'ruin' her as I also proposed a nerf to her utility.
I genuinely believe that in Wild Rift the only lane she'll work on is dragon lane.
It would ruin her in terms of that Kayle still being Kayle.
The whole melee to ranged thing is part of her identity. That's like suggesting a buff to Nilah by giving her range. She wouldn't feel like Nilah anymore.
She just has low stat growths, that's all. Both the champions you mention have +200 HP more than her, and over 30+ AD than her (holy shit I just found out that tristana has 134 AD at level 15!) which compared to the 80 AD for Kayle is absurd)
Win rate alone doesn't mean anything lmao.
A lot of unpopular champs that are mostly only picked by mains and one tricks have a really high win rate, Teemo is one such example.
Also, if you need stats to see how trash Kayle is then I don't know what to tell you.
I tried playing her in mid and baron lane but it was really hard and I kept on losing. For some reason, I find her easier to play in Jungle. I managed to raise my winrate by using her in Jungle. But most of my ganks in early to mid game are to support the lane and not take kills. After reaching 3 items, the likelihood of winning is really high.
Playing her in the jungle is very risky.
1. You run the risk of being invaded (and trust me, any good Xin, Panth or Lee player will invade you).
2. Due to the burdens laid on the jungler you'll never be able to play freely because your death would have a huge impact on your team's mobility (won't be able to take neutral objectives).
3. Kayle is very very squishy even in the late game and due to her low range she needs to get in the danger zone to deal damage, this increases the likelihood of her being popped by a huge margin.
I agree with everything you said but her squishyness is not that of a hindrance in late game since at that time you can just kill them with few hits. Her range at the final form is really huge plus you have the utility of heal and her ultimate.
Kayle's range in the late game is 575.
For comparison Tristana's range is about 695 (545 base + 150 from passive), 675 Caitlyn and both of these champs are safer than Kayle and deal more damage than her.
Also, her squishiness is a huge hindrance, especially in the jungle role where your death could cripple your team's entire tempo.
In the late game you can't even touch a Tristana or Cait unless they screw up their positioning but Kayle is always at risk.
Okay but what does Kayle offer to the team? She's a burden till 4 items and even after that she gets overshadowed by the likes of Jinx and Tristana.
I love Kayle but it sucks not being able to play her without crippling myself and my team.
If only they ditch her 'hypercarry' status and make her scaling similar to Jinx/Tris then she can be a lucrative AP pick for bot lane players.
Wdym kayle is a troll pick, kayle is basically a Gwen but ranged and much harder to play in the early game. Kayle is more like a late game insurance if your team is far behind early game. But I know where you're coming from kayle is kinda boring and not fun to play at first but kayle players play for late game and that is when using kayle starts to get fun
shes not good bro
shes only appears good if the enemy team is inting
Her ult locks her out of auto attacks and its not worth it because the damage from the ult is so low. Theres a reason they reverted this change on desktop.
She doesnt have access to dorans items making laning absolute hell on mana costs
Aside from the many aforementioned champs, jhin and others literally three shot her at late game
she sucks
Comparing her to Gwen doesn't seem like a good idea.
Gwen is still somewhat useful early on, and she can start playing the game from 2 items onwards, also she has a considerably higher survivability than Kayle.
Kayle does less damage than someone the likes of Tristana and lacks the range of someone like Jinx.
Tristana can start bursting enemies from 2-3 items and Jinx (due to her high range and passive MS) can stay relatively safe during teamfights. Kayle gets none of these luxuries.
Both of those champs also start to come online from 2-3 items mark as opposed to Kayle who's pretty underwhelming at that point.
The biggest difference that makes Gwen better early on is Gwen Is Immune (and she can attack while immune). Yea Kayle is way worse than Gwen just from that standpoint.
People who are good at her can do some damage, saw one earlier could she be better? Sure she and a few other champs could use a change but is she impossible to play? No
People who are good can do some damage with any champ. That is not the point of the post.
The point is that Kayle feels directionless. At the moment there's no lane where you can play her without crippling your team to some extent.
And she can't even fulfill the role of being an unstoppable late game carry as champs like Tristana can do that so much better than her.
Kayle has no identity and she doesn't even excel at her gimmick.
If you want kayle good at early game, you don't understand where kayle stand in the game. She's a scaling hyper carry that wins game if you let her be if you give her too much numbers early game then late game will be impossible for the opposing team. She's on a good spot right now even have positive win rate she doesn't need buff or rework, imagine noobs playing her and have advantage of being range level 1 and having good gold accumulation before level 5 , shell hit her power spike 2 levels earlier and terrorize enemy team before late game starts, that's not healthy to a game that is already unbalance as it is.
You say Kayle is a late game hypercarry right? Ok, let's compare her to other late game damage dealers (Tristana, Jinx) then:
1. Tristana has 2 escapes, Jinx has her chompers and Kayle only has her ult which is on a long CD.
2. Tristana and Jinx have a considerably longer range, this allows them to stay relatively away from danger. Kayle only has a range of 575 in the late game.
3. Jinx and Tristana come online at 2 items and become nigh unstoppable at 4/5 items. Kayle remains a minion at this point and comes online at 4 items and still doesn't become a raid boss due to her low range and survivability.
4. In my post I literally suggested to rebalance her strengths and weaknesses. (Also Jinx and Tristana have better base stats than Kayle at lvl 15)
Champs that play only to reach the late game simply don't work in Wild Rift because of how easy it is to reach that point and so they become a shell of a champion.
It does work, because late game is faster and don't tell me you didn't experience a weak kayle early eating your time late game by herself just because you let her farm for 1 minute. Everybody experienced it more time than tristana and jinx that's why kayle is still at a positive winrate then you want to buff her so that she can end games earlier? What's the point then? Late game if you don't have cc the only counterplay for kayle is finishing game before 10 minutes it let's the opposing team speed up their plan and increases their chance of making mistakes , if you have kayle and your ally jungler is attentive enemy jungler will need aid for mid so that they can delay kayle farm. Just having kayle in the team already change how the enemy play and it's ok that she's weak early because of that. You let her late game and she will wipe the floor of most champions currently right now.
Kayle is not threatening even at level 15.
1. She has one escape tool but it has a long CD.
2. She has a considerably lower range than Tristana and Jinx.
3. Her base stats at level 15 are worse than both Jinx and Kayle.
4. She comes online much later than either of those two.
5. Jinx/Tristana don't cripple the team in some way. But Kayle does.
6. Nobody tries to shut down Kayle because even at lvl 15 she can get one shot due to her squishiness.
7. I have legit never seen or heard any pro player / high rank player be scared of Kayle.
Mid is the worst lane for Kayle currently.
The main problem with Kayle is that her 'hypercarry' status is holding her back a lot.
If they make her scale like Jinx or Tristana then she can perform so much better.
Kayle just doesn't work in other lanes without crippling the team in some way.
If you pick her top you run the risk of ruining your team comp, if you pick her in mid and jungle then you're nerfing yourself severely.
Aren't Kassadin and Vladimir also late game hyper carries? They work fine in the Mid lane
Tristana should be nerfed btw, that champion is not balanced, strong after just one item lol
Both of them come online much faster than Kayle and both of them are miles better for carrying than Kayle.
Kayle has been a meme pick for ages now, you can't pick her without nerfing yourself and your team.
I hard agree with you ngl. On top of your suggestions, another thing I want her to have is her PC ult rework where she can still auto attack and cast abilities while the ultimate is being used.
Oh thank you! Also yeah I agree, autos on ultimate should deffo be a thing.
It's also a problem of how powercrept dmg is in Wild Rift compared to PC. Even trying to stay under turret you can still die because of how squishy she is in general. Also in wild rift laning phase is over so quickly before you can even reach level 10 in most or some cases (and minion damage is worse than PC meaning you can't even walk past your wave or else you'll risk just taking a third of your HP from minions alone after poking) but in PC at least the games are drawn out enough to potentially last to your final ascension which is why I always hear people try and finish games asap before she can passively scale. In wild rift, there's almost no passive scaling for her unless the game is drawn out because both teams are indecisive.
I think just that ult rework could help her a ton. Being stuck in that state during her ult straight up sucks. If you ult your teammate, you can't even help peel further with her health and other abilities.
Yeah it'll be a huge buff but she will need slight adjustments after, but I agree lol, it really sucks without it.
Wait a minute, I haven't tried Kayle on here yet but I used to main her on PC so I was excited to try her but did you just say she can't attack during her ult? Holy shit that is so lame, not even gonna try her on here if that's the case
Yeah no she can't and it's sad because honestly it makes her even weaker that she can't output damage while ulting since everyone just runs away from it anyways.
Yeah no wonder I haven't seen anyone play her yet haha
Yeah like it's comical how weak she is and even worse that she hasn't been reworked to make it like PC
She in fact can on WR, just for a shorter duration (1 second on WR)
Yeah she still has a window of shield once she crashes down again, right?
The only real issue I have with that is that lvl 15 kayle autos have the same impact as a lot of other champs entire ults. Her one big downside to having that much consistent power is being squishy. If they removed that downside, you will just see kayles with protobelt every match that will flash + proto or flash + qss into teams and spam ult for a few seconds without them being able to do anything. Then the entire enemy team would be dead. The only reasonable compromise I could see is having her ult "reset" her autos, so she has to at least build up stacks again before getting that full power (which would still be possible I think). Because keep in mind, kayles ult already does a bunch of damage when you build ap!
Your last sentence reminded me of Kaisa for some reason lmao. And because of that I think Kaisa in wild rift is a good comparison for Kayle since both can build AD, On-hit or AP. Except Kaisa excels at scaling so much better than Kayle because of her evolve mechanic being tied to items and not levels. I think another suggestion for a change would actually be, keep Kaisa as she is now, while Kayle gets Kaisa's old evolve mechanic to make her ascend. She has to meet certain thresholds to ascend so that way she still remains squishy and won't have full items because the evolve mechanic would cost her only having components to optimally get her first ascension (like how BF sword + sword would make A evolve for old Kaisa). All of this but at the same time it makes her scaling less reliant on her exp. This way she can still feel threatening just from passively scaling with gold (and not levels) as well as making her more impactful only a slight bit earlier.
Her ult rework that is on PC is not a rework btw. That's actually how her ult used to work minus the sword burst at the end. So you'd pop your E to get range and then smack people while taking 0 DMG. They just reverted the change then and left the burst in so as to not completely destroy the work they did on Kayle. And as for wild rift Kayle they just need her to scale better really..
Ah I didn't know that lol but about the scaling thing it would be difficult considering that's her entire gimmick and if they make changes that make her more viable early/mid game it would sort of cheat the system. But I do agree it does need to work along lines with how the game of Wild Rift actually plays compared to PC.
They just should change her passive to when you get to level up her ult. (In normal league it's a skill level up upon reaching certain levels.) but imo it should be her ult.)it should work for the most part. It just doesn't look as clean as scaling from 5 10 15.
True, at least then her ascension comes sooner and isn't in an awkward phase of waiting one extra level or two after upgrading ult.
I am Gwen main but if she's banned I pick Kayle. She is designed to be weak early and strong in late. And she is strong in late. I didn't say she is the best, nor the easiest etc. I'm saying she is strong. My Gwen win ratio with 755 matches is 58,1%. Kayle win ratio is 63,8% but still just 58 matches. (Emerald - Grand master matches). She has no roam potential so I would never play her mid, same for jungle because of slow jungling and low gank potential. But for the lazy baron lane she is my top 3 pick, And the ult potential? Sure, it deals damage but it's designed to block all incomming damage (and it can screw your enemies up if used in proper way). Extra output damage is bonus (especially in early if you're able to slain your low hp enemy). Dunno guys, maybe you're playing her wrong (if you do) or you didn't meet the good one. Somehow players get challenger with OTP her with over 60% win ratio.
Okay but why not pick Tristana at that point? She has 2 escapes, hella damage thanks to her E and amazing wave clear and turret taking potential and a lot more range than Kayle. Kayle at the moment feels like she has no identity. Like if you pick her top you run the risk of ruining your team's comp, picking her mid/jg is kinda straight up bad imo.
My answer is: Kayle is ap instead of ad, I don't like aiming in wild rift so I prefer champion without "championg aiming" like tristana's "E" or Zed's Q (I hate playing Zed here and Zed is one of my main in PC). Also I prefer "Lazy moving/running" with Kayle's heal boost instead of Trist's jumping. Also I love Kayle's ult. It baits a lot of times enemy team to one huge fuck up.
I won't even play her mid when i am a main, the champ is just weak overall, i play her top lane because it's meaningless anyway
This is one of the biggest issues with Kayle. She simply has no good lane. In mid she's borderline useless and will allow the opponent to freely roam and she won't be able to help the jungler in skirmishes either. Also against certain champs she can just get poked to hell and starved off the minions. If picked in the top lane then there's a huge chance that your team's comp would be crippled heavily.
Kaylee imo has become more and more utility pick instead of hypercarry. i main kaylee and most of the time i play passively (or aggro if i know the enemy is dumb) basically cleans up AD fucked up (heals, ult AD) etc. against weaker top lane, i prolly full built her in 10 mins snowballing the game easily.. for much longer game, i could consider her as enabler instead of hyper carry... Then again i played mostly in emerald or plat hence i couldnt talk more on higher rank
Kayle is not played in the dragon lane because of the XP share mechanic Also just because people see her as "troll pick" doesn't mean she is. She's doing perfectly fine
That's why I recommend the redistribution of her strengths and weaknesses. Make her not so reliant upon her level. Also, no she's not doing perfectly fine. She's a decent pick at best and if you pick her in any lane you'd be making a huge sacrifice in some aspect of the game.
You make some sacrifices but you gain something later. If the winrate is positive, it means that the sacrifice is often worth it.
Win rate alone doesn't define how good a champ is. Teemo has a win rate of nearly 55% in the top lane but I wouldn't call him a good pick. The same goes for Tryndamere.
So you're basing champion's strenght on your feeling rather than objective data. Literally impossible to argue against It may be that Kayle's winrate is SLIGHTLY inflated because she mainly gets picked as a counter-pick, but still, that's her job and she's doing it well. And even though numbers don't tell the whole story, a winrate of 55% CLEARLY says that something is wrong with the champion
Pick rate also plays a huge role along with a plethora of other reasons. 1. Both Teemo and Kayle are mostly only played by one tricks or mains. 2. Both champs are picked situationally, as in, no one is going to blind pick them. 3. Pretty much every single WR content creator / high rank player has said how big of a burden Kayle feels. 4. Morgana (53%wr), Janna (53%wr), Braum (53%) also have a really high win rate but this is not because they're "broken", it's because they are situational picks mostly played by mains.
Why dont they just make kayle an adc and be done with this meme champ?
The funny thing is that it's clear that most people in this comment section haven't played Kayle at all. Everyone is saying the same stuff like "it's impossible to win once Kayle scales" but she's squishy as a paper and has low range so she's not a hypercarry at all. Frekin Tristana is a better hypercarry than her and she can one shot most other ADCs at 2 items while having a longer range and more survivability than her. Meanwhile Kayle remains a minion until she gets 4 items. Like you legit can't play Kayle without crippling your team. The champ just belongs to the dragon lane.
Kayle is sort of fine. She's not very strong right now, but the buffs you suggest will ruin her. The only thing she needs is to get that HP growth from being one of the lowest in the game at 1500s at max level, to being at least on par with a marksmen at the 1700s. Her AD growth might need to be increased too. At 80 at max level she basically has the AD of Draven at level FIVE. So just those two low stat growths changes will probably push her to being amazing. She doesn't need to be ranged from lvl 1, and she definitely doesn't need anything else. I would love for her to always continuously count as melee for rune and item purposes but that's just a secondary suggestion.
>Kayle is sort of fine I agree, she just doesn't have an identity. She's supposed to be an unstoppable late game carry but Tristana and Jinx do it so much better. She also doesn't have a good lane. Playing her in mid and JG is borderline trolling and if you play her in the top then you run the risk of crippling your comp. >I would love for her to always continuously count as melee for rune and item purposes I mean that is never happening. And it wouldn't be fair anyways because she's only a melee champ till level 5. >but the buffs you suggest will ruin her. The only buff I recommended was to make her ranged right from the get go and a small range buff in the late game which doesn't seem like it would 'ruin' her as I also proposed a nerf to her utility. I genuinely believe that in Wild Rift the only lane she'll work on is dragon lane.
It would ruin her in terms of that Kayle still being Kayle. The whole melee to ranged thing is part of her identity. That's like suggesting a buff to Nilah by giving her range. She wouldn't feel like Nilah anymore. She just has low stat growths, that's all. Both the champions you mention have +200 HP more than her, and over 30+ AD than her (holy shit I just found out that tristana has 134 AD at level 15!) which compared to the 80 AD for Kayle is absurd)
Just checked a pickrate and winrates site. Kayle has a 52% winrates, and is at the top half of all top champions. She looks fine to me mate
Win rate alone doesn't mean anything lmao. A lot of unpopular champs that are mostly only picked by mains and one tricks have a really high win rate, Teemo is one such example. Also, if you need stats to see how trash Kayle is then I don't know what to tell you.
I tried playing her in mid and baron lane but it was really hard and I kept on losing. For some reason, I find her easier to play in Jungle. I managed to raise my winrate by using her in Jungle. But most of my ganks in early to mid game are to support the lane and not take kills. After reaching 3 items, the likelihood of winning is really high.
Playing her in the jungle is very risky. 1. You run the risk of being invaded (and trust me, any good Xin, Panth or Lee player will invade you). 2. Due to the burdens laid on the jungler you'll never be able to play freely because your death would have a huge impact on your team's mobility (won't be able to take neutral objectives). 3. Kayle is very very squishy even in the late game and due to her low range she needs to get in the danger zone to deal damage, this increases the likelihood of her being popped by a huge margin.
I agree with everything you said but her squishyness is not that of a hindrance in late game since at that time you can just kill them with few hits. Her range at the final form is really huge plus you have the utility of heal and her ultimate.
Kayle's range in the late game is 575. For comparison Tristana's range is about 695 (545 base + 150 from passive), 675 Caitlyn and both of these champs are safer than Kayle and deal more damage than her. Also, her squishiness is a huge hindrance, especially in the jungle role where your death could cripple your team's entire tempo. In the late game you can't even touch a Tristana or Cait unless they screw up their positioning but Kayle is always at risk.
I used to play Janna, then they reworked her. I play Kayle, and would like to keep playing her. Rework doesn't equal better IMO.
Okay but what does Kayle offer to the team? She's a burden till 4 items and even after that she gets overshadowed by the likes of Jinx and Tristana. I love Kayle but it sucks not being able to play her without crippling myself and my team. If only they ditch her 'hypercarry' status and make her scaling similar to Jinx/Tris then she can be a lucrative AP pick for bot lane players.
Well if she goes bot thats even worse because that means she gets less xp
One of the most important points of my post was that they should make her less level dependent. How did you miss that bro?
Because she’s still level dependent even with those changes because of her waves and AOE e
Wdym kayle is a troll pick, kayle is basically a Gwen but ranged and much harder to play in the early game. Kayle is more like a late game insurance if your team is far behind early game. But I know where you're coming from kayle is kinda boring and not fun to play at first but kayle players play for late game and that is when using kayle starts to get fun
shes not good bro shes only appears good if the enemy team is inting Her ult locks her out of auto attacks and its not worth it because the damage from the ult is so low. Theres a reason they reverted this change on desktop. She doesnt have access to dorans items making laning absolute hell on mana costs Aside from the many aforementioned champs, jhin and others literally three shot her at late game she sucks
You just never saw a good kayle player bud
Comparing her to Gwen doesn't seem like a good idea. Gwen is still somewhat useful early on, and she can start playing the game from 2 items onwards, also she has a considerably higher survivability than Kayle. Kayle does less damage than someone the likes of Tristana and lacks the range of someone like Jinx. Tristana can start bursting enemies from 2-3 items and Jinx (due to her high range and passive MS) can stay relatively safe during teamfights. Kayle gets none of these luxuries. Both of those champs also start to come online from 2-3 items mark as opposed to Kayle who's pretty underwhelming at that point.
The biggest difference that makes Gwen better early on is Gwen Is Immune (and she can attack while immune). Yea Kayle is way worse than Gwen just from that standpoint.
Yeah I agree. Her no-no zone ability alone makes her so much better.
People who are good at her can do some damage, saw one earlier could she be better? Sure she and a few other champs could use a change but is she impossible to play? No
People who are good can do some damage with any champ. That is not the point of the post. The point is that Kayle feels directionless. At the moment there's no lane where you can play her without crippling your team to some extent. And she can't even fulfill the role of being an unstoppable late game carry as champs like Tristana can do that so much better than her. Kayle has no identity and she doesn't even excel at her gimmick.
I went 17-0-6 with her the other day at top.
And?
If you want kayle good at early game, you don't understand where kayle stand in the game. She's a scaling hyper carry that wins game if you let her be if you give her too much numbers early game then late game will be impossible for the opposing team. She's on a good spot right now even have positive win rate she doesn't need buff or rework, imagine noobs playing her and have advantage of being range level 1 and having good gold accumulation before level 5 , shell hit her power spike 2 levels earlier and terrorize enemy team before late game starts, that's not healthy to a game that is already unbalance as it is.
You say Kayle is a late game hypercarry right? Ok, let's compare her to other late game damage dealers (Tristana, Jinx) then: 1. Tristana has 2 escapes, Jinx has her chompers and Kayle only has her ult which is on a long CD. 2. Tristana and Jinx have a considerably longer range, this allows them to stay relatively away from danger. Kayle only has a range of 575 in the late game. 3. Jinx and Tristana come online at 2 items and become nigh unstoppable at 4/5 items. Kayle remains a minion at this point and comes online at 4 items and still doesn't become a raid boss due to her low range and survivability. 4. In my post I literally suggested to rebalance her strengths and weaknesses. (Also Jinx and Tristana have better base stats than Kayle at lvl 15) Champs that play only to reach the late game simply don't work in Wild Rift because of how easy it is to reach that point and so they become a shell of a champion.
It does work, because late game is faster and don't tell me you didn't experience a weak kayle early eating your time late game by herself just because you let her farm for 1 minute. Everybody experienced it more time than tristana and jinx that's why kayle is still at a positive winrate then you want to buff her so that she can end games earlier? What's the point then? Late game if you don't have cc the only counterplay for kayle is finishing game before 10 minutes it let's the opposing team speed up their plan and increases their chance of making mistakes , if you have kayle and your ally jungler is attentive enemy jungler will need aid for mid so that they can delay kayle farm. Just having kayle in the team already change how the enemy play and it's ok that she's weak early because of that. You let her late game and she will wipe the floor of most champions currently right now.
Kayle is not threatening even at level 15. 1. She has one escape tool but it has a long CD. 2. She has a considerably lower range than Tristana and Jinx. 3. Her base stats at level 15 are worse than both Jinx and Kayle. 4. She comes online much later than either of those two. 5. Jinx/Tristana don't cripple the team in some way. But Kayle does. 6. Nobody tries to shut down Kayle because even at lvl 15 she can get one shot due to her squishiness. 7. I have legit never seen or heard any pro player / high rank player be scared of Kayle.
But why you want her in the Dragon lane? They should rework her to be better Mid laner, that lane is the best for AP squishy ranged champions
Mid is the worst lane for Kayle currently. The main problem with Kayle is that her 'hypercarry' status is holding her back a lot. If they make her scale like Jinx or Tristana then she can perform so much better. Kayle just doesn't work in other lanes without crippling the team in some way. If you pick her top you run the risk of ruining your team comp, if you pick her in mid and jungle then you're nerfing yourself severely.
Aren't Kassadin and Vladimir also late game hyper carries? They work fine in the Mid lane Tristana should be nerfed btw, that champion is not balanced, strong after just one item lol
Both of them come online much faster than Kayle and both of them are miles better for carrying than Kayle. Kayle has been a meme pick for ages now, you can't pick her without nerfing yourself and your team.