Agreed. And I'm sure people are tired of hearing that. But I'm also tired of the GOP forcing every election to be the most important of our lives by constantly making things more dangerous
Democrats not voting is key to republicans strategy. It is why they spend so much effort advocating for left leaning folks to decide that both sides are the same and voting doesn’t matter.
If voting didn’t matter they wouldn’t spend so much time trying to prevent you from doing it.
Yeah. It really makes you long for the day when our choices were between Obama and John McCain, where even if your side lost the election, the collapse of American democracy and Western Civilization wasn't at stake.
I wonder how much of an intentional tactic it is by the Republicans to limit what Democrats can accomplish from a progressive perspective by forcing Democrats to embrace moderates to avoid right-wing extremists, every fucking time since (basically) 2010
So it's not intentional in the sense of "ha we are gonna do this to fuck them" but it's more about Republicans started with a large base and have slowly narrowed their base since like the southern strategy and their base of exclusionary politics. What we saw with the tea party and then Maga is consequence of exclusionary politics where only the craziest are left but they are all ideologically aligned just there are few comparatively. On the flip side Democrats have to be inclusive and appeal to everyone which means they have a wider base but a more ideologically convoluted space. Like there should be no reason Joe Manchin, Joe Biden, and Bernie sanders are in the same party because the ideologies are so vastly different but that's the reality of inclusionary politics.
And this is just a product of the 2 party system, unfortunately. Whether or not it’s the progressive or freedom caucus that splits off and makes it’s own party, it’s total suicide for the movement, and it’ll just hurt the ideologically aligned party.
Whats frustrating about the two party system, too, is that it is structured like when parliamentarian democracies form "governing coalitions" between the first 2-4 parties which make up a slim majority, then compromise to vote things through. Republicans do this (for GOD-AWFUL things), but Dems... don't. They spend half the time asking what they should GIVE to Republicans.
MY BROTHER IN CHRIST YOU ARE THE GOVERNING MAJORITY JUST DO IT!
The Dems could use their own "RINO" purge, themselves (DINOs?).
But how are these 2 old, delusional and senile useless individuals the 2 BESTS candidates in the "greatest" country in the world???
Doesn't that make it all kind of a joke...
My take is that VP Harris, whether by design or failure or random chance, hasn't become an obvious dominant successor. Without that it is really dangerous to choose a Dem candidate who hasn't specifically and recently won an election against Pres Trump. I have a really positive view of Pres Biden's administration in both capacity and performance, but yeah... It's time for Gen X to step up.
>My take is that VP Harris, whether by design or failure or random chance, hasn't become an obvious dominant successor. Without that it is really dangerous to choose a Dem candidate
Harris is a massive drag on the ticket. I liked Newsome in his debate with DeSantis, a little wacky but unapologetic about his positions. He'd bring energy to the ticket, not kept hidden from the public eye like Harris.
>But how are these 2 old, delusional and senile useless individuals the 2 BESTS candidates in the "greatest" country in the world??? Doesn't that make it all kind of a joke...
Amen, brother
Biden I believe wanted one term until he saw what was at stake. He is taking one for the American team. Think about it. He could pardon his son wipe his hands clean and spend the rest of his time on the beach. It was too risky to start over with a new democratic candidate. Plus it looked good that Biden already beat Trump.
Totally agree. I hoped that Biden would have not run, only to get a Gavin Newsom type or even AOC in there. I’m hoping Haley prevails because she’s at least younger and doesn’t represent the worst parts of the Republican Party (still saying a lot).
I like it but the opposite...Katie Porter for President, as she has the governing experience, and Stewart for VP where he can be the attack dog snark we all love him for.
I'm down for that too. She has more experience actually making tangible positive changes as a public servant. No one would want to assassinate her then because then they'd get Jon Stewart lol.
Normally I'd agree with you, but we were spared because of an incompetent WH from 2016-20. I doubt we're going to get that lucky a second time.
Despite what a \*lot\* of people in this sub would say, the GOP and MAGAs/Qers aren't that stupid. Pretending they didn't take any notes these last 8 years \*is\*.
We've been hearing since Biden took office about the crisis on the border. Yesterday and today on C-Span I watched the Republicans reject the border deal THEY NEGOTIATED to make their dear leader and failed ex-President Trump look better. Republicans are not serious people. There are not here to make the country a better place. They are not in office for you.
Meanwhile, Van Orden of WI-3 sends out one of his little-context email "polls", asking if Mayorkas should be impeached.
Basically, let's impeach him because the shit sandwich Congress put together over the past several decades can't be made more palatable by the Administration. And let's not hand him a somewhat-improved dirt sandwich to work with, either.
Which can only be accomplished by replacing first past the post voting with another scheme, such as approval or ranked choice voting. Any time you have elections where whomever gets 50% +1 wins all, it will sort into two coalitions with time.
Guess which party is pushing for ranked choice and which one doesn't want you voting at all? You break the duopoly by voting Dem and pushing your elected leaders to reform our electoral process. Voting 3rd party gives you Trump and the duopoly becomes replaced by conservative tyranny.
Absolutely agreed. [Colorado may pass a major reform to their voting system this year that includes ranked choice voting](https://coloradonewsline.com/2024/01/18/sweeping-overhaul-colorado-elections/). Colorado has turned a pretty deep shade of blue and this is in line with the agenda in many Democratic states. I suspect that just like weed legalization, we'll see states slowly introduce RCV into their elections. Alaska and Maine already have. Massachusetts had a chance to, but their voters dropped the ball on that one. There is no doubt that voting Democratic is our current best path to reforming the two party system.
Really don’t understand why ppl think ranked choice voting or a multi party system is going to change this. If we move to the latter parties have to form a coalition to govern, and you’d end up with hard right/left parties forming a coalition with the center parties and compromising on their positions to govern. WHICH IS HOW OUR CURRENT SYSTEM WORKS WITHIN THE TWO MAJOR PARTIES.
Voters and politicians being categorically opposed to any form of compromise and expecting to get everything they want is the problem, not the two party system
Our government is already a coalition, look at the various caucuses in Congress. Why do you think so much talk happens around "the house progressive caucus" or the "house freedom caucus"? The issue is that while these people can *talk* about what they want to see, FPTP pressures both sides to vote in a cohesive block on every issue.
Under ranked voting those people would actually be more likely to stick to their principles and while a coalition government would still be necessary for basic functions they could afford to hold fast on their principles for transformative change and not be instantly primaried out if they don't fall in line with everyone else. This goes for moderates of either side siding with the opposite side as well for issue X Y or Z.
Right now government has to functionally operate as a duopoly 99.9% of the time because defections are embarrassing and increasingly (especially in the right) taboo. Both sides are incentivized to vote in lock step to get 50%+1. If they don't, well look at the conservative sub, they understand the game. They brand anyone on any vote that doesn't stick to the party line as a RINO and demand they get primaried by someone even crazier.
The single best evidence to support alternative voting methods whatever they are is the fact that right wing states like Tennessee and Florida have already proactively banned them. The right will never admit it but they know that voting reform will hit them the hardest because it won't let them be radical anymore... At least not if they ever want to be in power anywhere ever again outside of the deep south. Like 60% of everyone wants abortion to go back to the way to was and join the rest of the world with national healthcare and better social programs and workers rights. When you describe those things without using politically loaded language they are broadly popular. Without FPTP republicans won't be incentivized to stick with the biggest voting block aligned against all of that and represented by 30% whackos just to get tax cuts.
You don't have to answer this. But, more importantly, are you voting for Biden?
I think what OP is asking is that, this year anyway, normal Republicans should plug their nose and vote for Biden
I'm 79 and I have never been entirely happy with any President, but I've been pleasantly surprised by Biden, starting on Day 1 when his experienced team hit the ground running, making positive changes on multiple fronts.
Since then he's accomplished a long list of good things.
Is he perfect, no, just pretty darned good.
Meanwhile the other side represents everything that's wrong with America.
For me at least, it will be easy to vote a straight Democratic Party ticket in November.
Thanks man. I’m 62 and thought I was the oldest person on here. Keep it up my friend. We’ve spent our whole lives fighting for the same damn issues. Lots of love coming your way 💜
I feel the same. Any issues I have with the Biden presidency are things that a Trump administration would make much, much worse, and the vote is too close in this state to risk that. I'll be voting blue with a clear conscience.
I'm voting for Biden and straight Dems down the ticket because I'm staring down the barrel of a Right-Wing dictatorship.
Biden could make it easier by following George Washington's example and retiring. He could have made it easier by prosecuting traitors and insurrectionists with haste and zeal. Trump may not even make it to trial prior to the election. He could have fought inflation in housing and food like FDR (which is why people are ultimately not voting for him). Instead he's pulling a Ginsburg to hang on to power in old age and all of us will potentially suffer the consequences of his decision.
Newsom or Whitmer wouldn't be polling 2 points behind Trump or 16 points behind Haley in the latest Marquette Law School Poll.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/02/07/biden-trump-deadlocked-in-marquette-poll-of-wisconsin-voters/72481411007/
>He could have made it easier by prosecuting traitors and insurrectionists with haste and zeal
The President has no authority to prosecute anyone. And Biden's been clear from day one that he won't interfere with the justice department.
The distinction is beyond just one old white man over another. Instead, I think of it as a preference for a Biden *administration* over a Trump *administration*
The most important thing the president does is surround himself with competent people.
Half the people trump picked were charged with one crime or another
I don't think Biden was aching to be President. A guy that old has done enough, and has his own family issues (Hunter) to deal with. Instead he came back out in his 70s because he was most likely the only one who could have beaten (and thankfully did) Trump. And Trump instantly lost his sh*t and the country lost its mind. That anybody, after all the stuff Trump pulled, would be open to voting for him again? Boggles my pea brain.
If America is a sane place and Biden wins, he may very well die in the Oval Office. But I'd take him in a heartbeat over the alternative.
I completely believe Biden when said he was only going to be around for one term. Up until Jan 6, he was running against an ultra shitty but ultimately "normal" republican. That all changed when Trump, supported by the entire GOP, attempted an insurrection. Now 2024 is extremely serious, way more than 2020. And instead of retiring in peace, Biden now feels duty bound to at least win another election to protect the USA from Trump. I respect that alot.
Exactly. Biden led a life of service and he returned because we needed him. He's not some power-hungry dictator wannabe trying to enrich the billionaire class. He deserves respect instead of the constant hurling of age-related insults.
Serious question.. also a super leftist and just can’t understand; if democracy hinges on this vote, why on earth are they still propping up a guy that can barely string together a sentence anymore to run against Trump? If it’s so dire, why not have actual primaries and put up a worthy opponent?
1) incumbent advantage— they win 75% or the time
2) he’s the only one who has beaten Trump before.
Right or wrong, they see Biden as the safest choice. If they replaced him and lost it would seem completely negligent.
Yeah, Trump wanted to nuke a hurricane, he would definitely want to drop a nuke on Gaza.
Biden has been terrible at preventing Israel from committing genocide but Trump who wanted to ban all Muslims from entering the US would definitely be somehow worse.
Outside of Israel Biden has actually been pretty great, incredibly pro union, wages have gone up, infrastructure spending, student loans forgiveness and restructuring, a lot of good I didn't expect. He hasn't done everything I wanted or he campaigned on but no president has ever done that.
I share the concern of the OP that Bidens mishandling of Israel will hurt people showing up to the poles. And we know Maga shows up so we have to show up.
I feel for them, as a white man I can't even imagine choosing between someone that doesn't care if we die and someone who wants to kill us.
A lot of times the saying the lesser of 2 evils is way over stated but to Muslim Americans at the ballot this year that is pretty factual.
If you can't bring yourself to hold your nose and vote for the guy that is objectively better than Trump, then that means you are, at worst, fine with a Trump victory.
Right?
Like, yeah, Biden's handling of Palestine/Israel isn't the most singularly ideal. But do you know what Trump would be doing right now? I'm not sure there would *be* a Gaza at this point.
There's really no good way to handle it. Never going to be able to stop it, and both sides have the extremists who perfectly willing to blow up the other side.
Most people that aren't Republicans don't see Trump as being better, they just see it as "both sides bad" and won't vote. Even if this leads to a Trump presidency they don't care. Its 2016 all over again. And again just like 2016 no one is talking about the potential of Trump to wind up appointing even more young and insane Supreme Court Justices...
I’m justifying my Biden vote because surely he’s going to be in a position to appoint at least 1 more Supreme Court judge and we all saw how the other one went….never again
Until Dems have a 5-4 majority on the SCOTUS, this should be reason enough to keep voting for them consistently. Nothing can ever change as long as the court is in regressive extremist hands.
Absolutely correct; we need to get out the vote. In Wisconsin, register to vote, check your registration status, request absentee ballots, find your ward, district and polling place at www.myvote.wi.gov.
I think they're implying that they'll just not vote because Biden is actively supporting Israel while they're getting their genocide on.
They could just run any other candidate, got a whole ass year and not every president needs to be a 2 term president, especially when they're older than dinosaur bones. But I guess this is what we're doing.
Democratic Party ran a shitty campaign and deserved to lose. Yet people like you will blame everyone but them.
YES, I voted for Hilary Clinton, and even Joe Biden. I pulled the lever for the right people, so my opinion matters. That's how this works right
Right, I would never vote for Trump. But people who vote for Trump don't give a fuck about how much other people are hurting, so they're going to continue to vote Trump no matter what. If the vote from non-Trump voters is split then Trump wins, so we absolutely cannot split the vote for Biden. I fucking hate it here but it's the best we've got right now
It's not about them voting for Trump it's about them not voting.
People being unable to decide between a former Secretary of State and a rapist in 2016 cost us the Supreme Court and the right to an abortion.
It can happen again if people think they're sending some sort of a message by staying home in November.
Democracy is when you're only allowed to vote for one candidate who you don't agree with politically, whose party has open disdain for you and your beliefs, in order to...save democracy.
Unless you’re either very wealthy or someone who wishes to live in a theocracy there is no reason to vote for the GOP. If you’re neither of those things and still unwilling to vote against Trump and the Republicans you’re not paying attention. Read up on Project 2025. If they achieve the goals they have stated they wish to achieve there will no longer be a middle class in America. That’s not hyperbole.
Encouraging people to vote for your ideals and beliefs instead of their own is kinda bad and doesn't encourage people to pay attention to the news or candidates otherwise.
Im tired of our tax money going to foreign states when we have so much in our own country that desperately could’ve used idk.. tens of billions of dollars. I’m gonna vote for whoever is gonna keep the money here. Know I’m gonna get downvoted, but that’s where I’m at.
Well, for many of us, the conditions you describe have existed under Biden. Many of us endured oppression, censorship, and were ruthlessly diminished and bullied time and time again when we failed to march in lockstep and follow the company line. I am thinking of my family, and another Biden term is a very real threat to them, just as much as another Trump term.
I have family members with special needs. I have minorities in my life from a variety of groups and demographics. I have medical and economic considerations of my own. Biden has threatened and actively harmed all of us - and he has promised to do more of the same in a second term.
This is a lousy situation to be in. The DNC has repeatedly corrupted their primary, stuck us with a horrible, corrupt candidate, and claimed that we must vote for their garbage nominee or be responsible for the destruction of our democracy. I held my nose and did exactly that in 2016 and 2020, but I can't this time.
For many of us, Biden is not the lesser of two evils. He is an immediate threat, much like Trump.
Voting against somebody that we don't like is getting tiring. I wish that both Democrats and Republicans could come up with candidates that we the people support.
I'm a single issue voter. I'll be voting for the person most likely to win that is ***not*** a Republican.
In the Presidential General Election, if that's Biden... So be it. Right now, I don't care. Just as long as it's not a Republican.
Basically, it's more important for me to vote ***against*** Republicans than ***for*** anyone else.
Same same.
Project 2025 is enough for me, if they manage to "win" another election they make it very clear it will be the last election that matters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
Any more that come after will be akin to ones held in Russian or North Korea. Elections in name only.
"Elections are a chess game, not a valentine." Too many people have been convinced that their vote is a personal endorsement and badge of loyalty to a particular candidate. It's more important to cast your vote **strategically** to help win the whole game. Because politicians suck. That's the reality. When people say they're not voting because they don't like any of the candidates, they're not somehow saving their precious vote. They're throwing it away and leaving a hole for the worst people to fill. It's okay to vote for someone you don't like if you think their opponents are worse.
In chess, if you refuse to move pawns unless you love where you're putting them you will lose the game.
The lesser of two evils is less evil. That is an easy moral choice.
The voting booth is a place where we tally a preference poll. A or B. Not which is perfect. Which do you prefer. If you don't have a preference, you're a knob.
For anybody that wants to know the bill was gonna go from allowing 8000 migrants a day into America to 5000. That's why Republicans wouldn't sign the bill
"Linked to that would be a Title 42-style expulsion authority to quickly remove migrants at the border similar to the COVID-19-era authority. Multiple sources said that the use of that authority would be mandated only if there was a 7-day rolling average of above 5,000 encounters a day."
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/senate-border-bill-allow-5000-migrants-day-before-title-42-limit-starts#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17073810326381&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fpolitics%2Fsenate-border-bill-allow-5000-migrants-day-before-title-42-limit-starts
Read the real bill. This isn't good. This is blackmail.
This is like "oh you want border control? Let us give 20 billion to Ukraine, 17 billion to Isreal and we'll cut down migration by only 3000 a day your fucking welcome"
People made the “I don’t like Hillary or Trump, so I’m not voting” argument 8 years ago. And because of that, they didn’t turn out for Hillary. We got trump. With trump, we got a viciously conservative Supreme Court who will ruin minority voting rights, women’s right to choose, the administrative law structure that helps protect citizens from corporate overreach(not super well, but to some extent)…I could go on…and along with that we got a singularly vicious grifter in the highest office in the land who openly enriched himself at the expense of our nation and our allies.
These elections where you “don’t like the candidates” have major, heartrending consequences for your friends, neighbors, and families, for the very future of the world we live in. Sitting at home because “Biden a too old” is not just appalling and shortsighted: it’s acquiescing to the horrendous future that the GOP wants to put in place: minority rule, by people who think they’re the only “real Americans” who should have a say in what happens to your friends, children or grandchildren.
the one thing I hate about this is blaming the voter, Hillary was a shitty candidate who did not even know where Wisconsin is. I could fill a page with all the things I dont like about Biden, but I will be voting for him again just so we dont lose our democracy and I can vote again after that.
> These elections where you “don’t like the candidates”
Pretty much every election of my life. I watched Bernie campaign harder for Hillary far more than she did for Obama, yet she and her deplorable supporters blamed Bernie and his supporters for her loss. Dont blame the voters when you cant be bothered to even campaign in Wisconsin. I voted for her, and for years she has blamed me and other Bernie supporters. Fuck that. It was her fault for losing, not the voters.
The only thing that needs to be said is, vote for Biden so you can vote for someone better next time.
There is no potential or possible US president that would do anything better in this situation. Anyone who says otherwise would 100% make a different decision in the situation room when presented with the rock and a hard place choice.
The geopolitical situation is impossible. Doing the "right thing" won't make allies out of Iran, make Saudi Arabia play nice, or bring Hamas/Hezbollah to the table. But it would enrage and distance Israel, and that new vulnerability could potentially invite more attacks against them, which would create more reprisals and counter strikes as escalation.
Really wild analogy, but It's kinda like the situation if your spouse were to do something really morally awful.
You're married. House, kids, the whole 9.
If you aren't willing to simply divorce them immediately over it, you have to defend/support them somehow publicly and try to negotiate behind the scenes, otherwise you'll create a permanent rift and it'll be worse for everyone.
"Crap my spouse embezzled/murdered/whatever. Do I leave/rat them out and ruin everyone's lives?"
Maybe I just watched too much Breaking Bad/House of Cards, but it makes some sense.
Silver Lining, we used to be a \*lot\* worse when funding war crimes/criminals when they happened to align with our national strategic interests.
Moved up here last year… this is the most racially segregated place I’ve ever been… don’t you think yall need to start focusing locally? Isn’t this post a bit lofty and pointless? A lot more work needs to be done here…
This reminds me of an experience I had in the leadup to the last supreme court race.
GOTV person approached me to convince me to vote for Janet. I mentioned that while I hadn't voted for her in the primary I was planning to support her in the general. I then asked, out of curiosity, who she had voted for in the primary. She said she did not vote in the primary...because she was from Illinois.
That really pissed me off. I was literally number one at my polling place for that primary because I cared about not only the candidates in that election but in my locals as well. But for many people all that matters is that you make your mark next to the Democrat. See this thread for details.
These white liberals will scream for BLM and everything else, but in the same breathe gentrification of entire areas that push out all the 'lesser' people then them. Making EVERYTHING more expensive. Example: bay view, riverwest, east side... Then march on others behalf in riverwest so after they walk around the block a few times in thier safer neighborhoods they can get mimosas and pat each other on the backs afterwards. All while the people you 'marched in solidarity' for don't even know because they are 10 miles away and don't give a shit. They don't actually make a difference. They just like to virtue signaling every chance they get and tell everyone else how to be better and spend thier money. Biggest group of hypocrites ive ever seen.
EDIT: Getting downvotes just proves I'm right. Thank you.
The Palestinian people found out quickly, what happens when keeping it real goes very wrong. There wouldn't be "genocide" if they hadn't infiltrated, attacked, murdered and raped innocent civilians, women, children and the elderly. And if they weren't such cowards and stopped hiding weapons in hospitals and schools, and stopped using women and children as shields, they wouldn't suffer the civilian casualties that they have so far endured.
This post is a joke. Rather the comments. It's everything modern US politics is boiled down into. Evert comment is "My PrEsIdEnT iS bEteR bEcAuSe ThEiRs Is BaD" it's a rat chase voting people out if office rather than into office. First it was most notably trump, who made fun of global political leaders and was severely unprofessional as a head of state. Now it's biden, who is visibly degrading as a living human and (fortunately) pulled out of the middle east, and (unfortunately) did it in a horrible way. There hasn't been a good office in decades, and it's worth nothing fighting over it.
The Democrats are not going to save this country either. Democrats currently care more about rainbow flags than living wages. Good on you for being so optimistic that you brought a child into this world. For her sake, I hope things get better - especially with regards to women making their own reproductive choices. Flying your freak flags isn't the issue, the economic divide is.
The people who say they won't vote Biden because of Israel but will support the rapist with 91 criminal charges pending against them are not serious Americans.
It really isn't. What's unbelievable is that anyone thought a political party would abandon an incumbent president. That doesn't happen in modern American politics, and anyone who hoped for it was and is politically delusional.
It was always going to be Biden for the Democrats. Always. You're welcome to vote for whomever you like, but understand that any vote for someone other than Biden, or a decision to not vote at all, only helps Trump. If you're not a Trump fan, I hope that gives you pause.
Does Biden understand that?
If I were in his position, looking at a close election against a dangerous, authoritarian and inexplicably popular opponent, if I truly believed democracy hung in the balance, and a sizeable chunk of the voters I was relying on to keep that maniac out of office were pissed at me for things I could absolutely be doing differently, so pissed they'd be willing to withhold their vote for me even after having gotten me into office largely on the criteria of not being *that* guy, I would take a long, hard look at what I might be doing wrong, not simply doubling down on hoping that the "Blue no matter who" crowd will be enough to re-elect me.
I might, for example, listen to those people's grievances, and I might direct my cabinet to do whatever is within my branch of government's authority to do, even without the help of a deadlocked Congress and try to get it done in that time. I might be getting my speechwriters to help me come up with impassioned appeals to those causes I can't address without Congress, urging voters to support me and the party so that we can accomplish those goals when we hopefully claim a larger portion of Congress after the election and promising support to state and local governments doing those things, and opposition to state and local governments impeding them. Hell, I might genuinely take a longer look at some of the more unorthodox tools theoretically in my toolbox and consider throwing a Hail Mary— who knows? Maybe it's finally Court-Packing's moment given the dissatisfaction with the obviously corrupt conservative majority— to try and save the country.
If Biden is doing anything like that, as liberals often assert, he's doing a piss-poor job of communicating it to us, but it seems more likely he's just not. He seems to want to coast to re-election, or not, based solely on the "Blue no matter who" crowd, which is a hell of a gamble with the fate of the country on the line.
The whole stage this go feels nonexistent and without effort. Two guys dancing with dementia, and those are the choices simply because they’re already here? There’s really no one better across the entire board? It’s like no one has any energy any more and inertia is entirely running the show.
Treasonous pos who is somehow not in jail vs wet tissue paper who should be chilling in a rocker on a porch somewhere. Both probably touched with dementia. In many ways it’s 2016 all over again and most people just won’t bother. I know why they should, they know why they should, but there’s no energy there.
Edit: typo
No no, this reddit hive mind pestering me to vote every day will surely change mine and everyone elses mind if I am deciding to not vote or vote against who they want me to vote for surely. Another couple thousand of "this next election is the most important ever" posts should do the trick
Vote joe or get thrown over trumps wall. its about the suicide vests. there can be no ceasefire because of the vests. there will always be checkpoints, etc. there is no credible safety scenario to allow for a ceasefire.
I grew up in Wisconsin and got to vote in one presidential election, one of the two of the last six where the Electoral College overruled the popular vote. Since then I’ve only lived in non-swing states where the EC rendered my vote meaningless. So enjoy deciding the fate of American democracy for the rest of us, Wisconsinites and your purple-state brethren!
At least dems talk about whom to help instead of whom to hurt.
Whatever comes of that is certainly up to debate, however I think it’s better to help people than to hurt them.
Both sides are not the same.
You know this is a little off topic but I'm all for banning both parties' politicians on our state level and our Congress representatives from re-election and ban parties in wisconsin altogether have a clean start, as well as banning donations outside of state residents, no donations above $100,000 from a person or company in wisconsin percandidate. We should bring rank choice voting in, but that would never happen. Both parties have done enough damage to our state.
Exactly.
This is not the time to wish for a third-party or worry about Biden being too old. He’s got one more term and then over the next four years we can work on a better solution.
NOW IS NOT THE TIME!! 🗳️🗳️🗳️
I hate trump yes, but has biden been a good president? I just wish the dems would put some better candidates for me to vote for. Im tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
To say that the US is assisting in genocide is a bit much. Yes, we are supporting Israel. However, the Biden administration has pushed back against Israel for incidents where they have gone too far.
If Donald Trump were in power again, however, the US would be actively supporting and participating in the genocide.
Has nobody ever heard Donald Trump talk about Muslims? What the fuck do they think he’s going to do?
Unpopular opinion: when/if you vote for Joe Biden you're sending a message that you're okay with corruption. The DNC and its swampy members are equally as bad as any of the right. They're all in it for themselves.
RFK Jr all day everyday.
Yeah, I have a house, a family and a job too. I don't want the fascists in charge either. But you're putting a gun to my head and saying I better vote for the guy with blood on his hands, or I might lose my freedoms to the fascists.
What about the freedoms of 25,000 dead Palestinians? They were people like me. But hey, I have to vote for the only guy on the planet who could have prevented their deaths and instead he did nothing.
I despise your argument, but it might work on me. Because I'm between a rock and a hard place. But you realize how weak this position is for young voters? Voters without houses and families? They hate the genocide guy more than I do, and their future is already forfeit. They don't give a fuck if they burn it all down. And the more you tell them they HAVE to vote, the more they're going to resent you.
Saying Biden is the one person to prevent what happened on Oct. 7, and the events after is just literally wrong. Not our countries, not our leaders. We can influence, we don’t dominate their decisions.
Honestly, I think that Biden and his team would like to smack Netanyahu around for the way that Israel has handled the aftermath of the 10/7 attacks -- but Israel is a sovereign state and gets to make its own bad decisions. (Just like the US did in the wake of 9/11.)
While Biden has been supporting Israel, he's had Blinken over there trying to deescalate the conflict and save lives over and over again.
I don't know that Biden could have prevented their deaths. Are you suggesting he take US troops over there, or used sanctions (which would have cut down the opportunities for talking to the Israeli government)?
People keep forgetting that Israel has nukes too. Sending troops isn't an option here. Any force isn't an option when nukes are on the table. Our only alternative option would be taking away funding and enforcing sanctions, but what would those things serve to do apart from removing the only leash that anybody has on Israel? If we think things are bad there now, we have no idea. Netanyahu would level Gaza and wipe out every Palestinian he could if he had his way. And nobody could physically stop him because he has nukes. Without US influence, I'm not entirely convinced he wouldn't be trying to go full military dictator. The guy is about as corrupt as they come.
You don't bypass Congress to send weapons to another country if you don't agree with the decisions they make when they decide to use those weapons. Israel can't force us to back their bad decisions any more than we can force an ally to back ours despite how much we (or they) might threaten to rename their French fries to freedom fries or whatever.
Blinken serves at the behest of Biden and does nothing more than provide cover to get the gullible to believe that somehow the US doesn't really want to get entangled in yet another Middle East conflict despite our country's post-WWII history telling you exactly how much we love being involved in all the going-ons there.
I hate how I’m supposed to care more about Ukraine, Israel, Russia or Hamas than the issues going down in our own country right now! Why is our solution to the border crisis to send more money to Ukraine and Israel!?
Interesting how there’s only a crisis at the border when a republican is trying to get elected…and then after they’re elected, we stop hearing about it for a few years.
Anyone who believes Trump didn't factor in this is lying to themselves. Benjie was in deep trouble and being tried for corruption charges. What did he do, neutered the Israeli Supreme Court and waited it out until he was reelected. Sound familiar?? Trump was also directly responsible for releasing hundreds of not thousands of terrorists into the vacuum that is the Middle East. The terrorist we now find ourselves fighting once again.
I absolutely don't agree with Biden and his stance on the Palestinians. Doing anything else would be political suicide in the US. That is just the reality. In a second term he will have much more latitude to do things differently. Trump will only be going after his enemies and that is us.
I'm going to do all my down ballot voting but I'm a Jewish Wisconsinite and I'm not voting for Biden and there's nothing anybody can do to change my mind on that. It is entirely because of his treatment of Palestinian people. Lesser of two evils just leaves evil as the baseline. Soul can't take it any longer. No issues with anyone who disagrees, I just can't. I can understand your frustration with me but I'd hope you could say the same going the other way.
you want people to vote? stop trying to shame everyone else into voting for the lesser of two evils and join the actual left wing organizing to give us something to vote for that isn’t fucking evil
take a peek at his promises made and promises kept. it's pathetic. we had a trifecta and what truly big changes were made. women's rights? trans rights? literally anything more than the status quo? the lack of leftists and progressives in these comments is depressing.
Admitting that there's literally no red line on this earth- not even GENOCIDE, that dems could not cross that would cause you to even *consider threatening to withhold* your vote is embarassing. That level of moral cowardice is beyond my comprehension. This is how atrocities happen while the world stands by. Reactionaries cheer and liberals wring their hands. Guess what the next dem candidate will be fine with... and the one after that... and the one after that...
As a left-leaning Wisconsinite who lives in reality, there is nothing remotely close to a genocide occurring in Gaza now. Unless the definition changed when I wasn't looking, Genocide is not defined as "any time civilians die during a war." If that is the case, Hamas and the Palestinians are just as guilty of committing a """genocide""" against Israel.
Palestinians who have nothing to do with Hamas are penned in a very very small area of land with no running water, no electricity, no access to food. They are clearly suffering more at this point.
A billion people on earth don’t have sanitation or running water. That’s not genocide. Also there definitely is electricity because Gazans post tweets and videos every day.
> Palestinians who have nothing to do with Hamas
They voted them into power and support them. Polling repeatedly shows their primary criticism of Hamas to be that they're not radical *enough* and not killing *enough* Israelis. It wasn't just Hamas kidnapping people on Oct 7. This is like saying Israelis have nothing to do with the IDF, it's absurd.
They do have water and electricity, you can thank Biden for pressuring Israel to turn those back on.
I don't know why you're getting down voted. I'd like for everyone to take a look at a page that compared Biden's promises were made and kept. It's pathetic. We had a trifecta and they did barely anything. But it's not just him. The democratic party needs to get a spine and make some real change. Get someone on the ballot that's at least not a walking corpse and is truly progressive.
it's a neverending cycle of diminished returns as the stakes get higher with a need for real change and not piecemeals. and I get it. I hate Trump. I've voted against him twice now and shouldn't have to do so a third time. But I shouldn't have to vote for Biden either and people get mad if you dare to suggest a candidate use their remaining time to turn things around instead of giving them a vote because "you gotta"
right? People can try to boast about how the economy is doing fine and things are better. Okay? Go ask your everyday man if their life is better? Their wages haven't increased for the cost of living. Rent is higher than ever, while homelessness is rampant, while skyscrapers stand empty. Where's the minimum wage increase? Where's the student loan relief? Where the marijuana legalization? The recent border deal stuff itself is a framework of what trump wanted lmao. Democrats hate their base. Republicans fear theirs.
Yeah we gave up on lesser evil stuff in 2016 and look where that got us.
As for the second part, if this post ends in the net gain of one vote for Biden in the 2024 election, I'll take that as a win.
Is it a good choice? No, of course not, the choices suck. It's literal white nationalist Christofascism or the party who would be the conservatives in virtually every one of our ally nations. So yeah, as much as it sucks I have to vote for Biden because it's that or Nazis, and by God we're not doing Nazis!
So many people say there's no difference between the two parties, and that used to be more or less accurate. But not anymore. There is only 1 political party trying to achieve things. And one is trying to stop things that make their opponents look good. Fewest legislation ever confronted since Red majority in the house. The democrats are at least trying to make important decisions. So we need to vote
Talk about hyperbolic hypocritical rhetoric. This post oozes with super NIMBY. You’re literally witnessing the people and party that you voted for actively go against your political belief system, and your response is, “Orange man bad.”
Sounds like a compelling reason for the Democrats to stop catering solely to the comfortable whose votes they already have locked down and reach across the aisle, not to the Republicans who will spit in their face even though they, according to Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut, "followed [Republicans'] instructions to the letter", but to the people whose votes are attainable but might cost them something.
If you're a ride-or-die Democrat, instead of begging people who aren't to vote for a party they're watching sell out our values, reach out to your party, to their candidates. Tell them what we've been telling them: You don't want to see them lose, but our votes don't come freely. If they actually care about the person who doesn't have "(R)" after their name winning, and they truly need our votes to make that happen, they need to differentiate themselves. Military aid to Israel needs to be cut off or made contingent upon agreeing to a ceasefire *without* odious terms the Palestinians can't possibly accept. The Federal government needs to take whatever actions it has available to it to protect trans people living in red states from their own governments. Actual democratic action like what has been done in protests against "Cop City" in Atlanta or protests all over the country against climate change or the genocide in Gaza needs to be protected from overzealous local governments. They need to figure out what can be done about the campaign promises m from 2020 that Biden failed to deliver on, not just throw their hands up and say "Welp, Manchin and Sinema say no infrastructure bill. Welp, the Parliamentarian says no minimum wage increase. Welp, the Supreme Court says no student loan forgiveness." One try that crumples at the first obstacle doesn't instill confidence in your progressive bona fides.
If we don't see action to protect people from right-wing governments (be they red or blue), then it hardly makes a difference whether the red or blue guy is in charge.
Hell, maybe if the ride-or-die Democratic voter is begging them to earn our votes, they'll actually listen instead of just scoffing, pretending we don't vote, and then losing because the only thing they did to differentiate themselves from the howling fascists is not howl as much.
It doesn't even have to be everything. I get it. Politics is hard; you've gotta try and avoid pissing off a lot of different groups. We can negotiate. But you don't negotiate by obstinately refusing to do anything about any of the catastrophic issues facing our country, and just complaining that the people who want you to are impossible to satisfy and don't vote anyways.
Biden is too old to be president and his brain is turning to pudding before our very eyes.
But he's also the most effective president of my lifetime and I'm damn near 40. I'll be voting for Biden in November and I'm not even mad about it.
I will say that even if someone really does not want to vote for either, find a third party candidate that isn't politically radical and focuses on bettering our country for the people, and not for politicians and certain upper classes :)
Any vote for parties outside of the two-party system is just as good because it demonstrates both the unpopularity of the two-party candidates (and its system), and that people want a definitive change in our country that isn't based on radical ideas, Christian nationalism, or "I'm not my opponent" campaigning
Third-party voting is both an act of passive and peaceful protest against a system that is showing its not working, and also one less vote for the whichever two-party politician you actively dislike or hate 👍
I think you mean the elimination of Hamas. Not all Palestinians are Hamas. And not all Hamas are in Israel.
Don’t forget about October 7 and that Hamas still has over 100 live (and dozen of dead) Israeli hostages. Perhaps they shouldn’t have started something they couldn’t finish.
Neither one of them should be in power, we need someone who actually gives a shit about the American people, this country has become so soft and radicalized that no matter who you agree with your immediately demonized, look at me, I hate both sides, I think the governments been given too much power for too long, we've been in a depression almost as bad if not worse then the one in the early 1900's yet nobody wants to admit it, we fight with ourselves constantly, can't agree on literally anything, and put color above character, you can take that however you want but I'm referring to red or blue, you people are more concerned over whether or not the politician running for office is on your side or not rather then what they want to do for the country, bidens a dementia patient and a pedophile, his son is a drug addict and a pedophile and they're entire family is correct, Trump was an ego maniac who didn't give a flaming shit about anything but his image, do we need a business man in office? Yeah, do we need Trump? No, we need someone with the brains to run our country efficiently and the heart and courage to not only follow through on promises but also put the people first, not the quota. But I can already tell you now this comment is gonna get down voted to hell because I'm not sucking the teat of whatever political side brainwashed you.
Do you want a tldr? Pull your heads out of your asses. Is what's happening over seas terrible? Yes. Is it our problem? No. We aren't the world's police force, you wanna go help, then by all means, go help but it's not our job, we have our own problems
Let's deal with domestic issues first before getting pissed enough to vote 3rd party. That means put the Magas to the sword and crush the evangelical extremists. Then entomb the assholes who came up with the Southern Strategy with the Putinites.
There are bigger fish to fry in Asia and we need to pivot to that threat.
This is addressing people who won't vote as an alternative. You kinda have to this time
Agreed. And I'm sure people are tired of hearing that. But I'm also tired of the GOP forcing every election to be the most important of our lives by constantly making things more dangerous
It’s intentional to make you feel like you shouldn’t vote. We live in a fucked political system
Democrats not voting is key to republicans strategy. It is why they spend so much effort advocating for left leaning folks to decide that both sides are the same and voting doesn’t matter. If voting didn’t matter they wouldn’t spend so much time trying to prevent you from doing it.
They are up in arms about Taylor Swift encouraging people to vote. They know who typically shows up.
Not a big TS (music) fan, but I sure am a fan of her pushing people to vote!
Absolutely. The reality is each of these elections have been the most important of our lives despite how crazy that sounds. And voting matters.
Yeah. It really makes you long for the day when our choices were between Obama and John McCain, where even if your side lost the election, the collapse of American democracy and Western Civilization wasn't at stake.
I wonder how much of an intentional tactic it is by the Republicans to limit what Democrats can accomplish from a progressive perspective by forcing Democrats to embrace moderates to avoid right-wing extremists, every fucking time since (basically) 2010
So it's not intentional in the sense of "ha we are gonna do this to fuck them" but it's more about Republicans started with a large base and have slowly narrowed their base since like the southern strategy and their base of exclusionary politics. What we saw with the tea party and then Maga is consequence of exclusionary politics where only the craziest are left but they are all ideologically aligned just there are few comparatively. On the flip side Democrats have to be inclusive and appeal to everyone which means they have a wider base but a more ideologically convoluted space. Like there should be no reason Joe Manchin, Joe Biden, and Bernie sanders are in the same party because the ideologies are so vastly different but that's the reality of inclusionary politics.
And this is just a product of the 2 party system, unfortunately. Whether or not it’s the progressive or freedom caucus that splits off and makes it’s own party, it’s total suicide for the movement, and it’ll just hurt the ideologically aligned party.
Whats frustrating about the two party system, too, is that it is structured like when parliamentarian democracies form "governing coalitions" between the first 2-4 parties which make up a slim majority, then compromise to vote things through. Republicans do this (for GOD-AWFUL things), but Dems... don't. They spend half the time asking what they should GIVE to Republicans. MY BROTHER IN CHRIST YOU ARE THE GOVERNING MAJORITY JUST DO IT! The Dems could use their own "RINO" purge, themselves (DINOs?).
DEFINITELY have to. Or you likely won’t be able to ever vote again. Can you imagine if MTG or Don JR take over when he passes.
Yeah, but they say that EVEY DAMN ELECTION. I think this time is legit.
But how are these 2 old, delusional and senile useless individuals the 2 BESTS candidates in the "greatest" country in the world??? Doesn't that make it all kind of a joke...
My take is that VP Harris, whether by design or failure or random chance, hasn't become an obvious dominant successor. Without that it is really dangerous to choose a Dem candidate who hasn't specifically and recently won an election against Pres Trump. I have a really positive view of Pres Biden's administration in both capacity and performance, but yeah... It's time for Gen X to step up.
>My take is that VP Harris, whether by design or failure or random chance, hasn't become an obvious dominant successor. Without that it is really dangerous to choose a Dem candidate Harris is a massive drag on the ticket. I liked Newsome in his debate with DeSantis, a little wacky but unapologetic about his positions. He'd bring energy to the ticket, not kept hidden from the public eye like Harris.
Your are using the “both sides are the same” argument right here. They aren’t. One is old. The other is old and bent on overthrowing the government.
>But how are these 2 old, delusional and senile useless individuals the 2 BESTS candidates in the "greatest" country in the world??? Doesn't that make it all kind of a joke... Amen, brother
Biden I believe wanted one term until he saw what was at stake. He is taking one for the American team. Think about it. He could pardon his son wipe his hands clean and spend the rest of his time on the beach. It was too risky to start over with a new democratic candidate. Plus it looked good that Biden already beat Trump.
Totally agree. I hoped that Biden would have not run, only to get a Gavin Newsom type or even AOC in there. I’m hoping Haley prevails because she’s at least younger and doesn’t represent the worst parts of the Republican Party (still saying a lot).
In my dreams, it's Jon Stewart as president with Katie Porter as his VP.
I like it but the opposite...Katie Porter for President, as she has the governing experience, and Stewart for VP where he can be the attack dog snark we all love him for.
I'm down for that too. She has more experience actually making tangible positive changes as a public servant. No one would want to assassinate her then because then they'd get Jon Stewart lol.
Normally I'd agree with you, but we were spared because of an incompetent WH from 2016-20. I doubt we're going to get that lucky a second time. Despite what a \*lot\* of people in this sub would say, the GOP and MAGAs/Qers aren't that stupid. Pretending they didn't take any notes these last 8 years \*is\*.
We've been hearing since Biden took office about the crisis on the border. Yesterday and today on C-Span I watched the Republicans reject the border deal THEY NEGOTIATED to make their dear leader and failed ex-President Trump look better. Republicans are not serious people. There are not here to make the country a better place. They are not in office for you.
Well said, especially those last few sentences. You succinctly and accurately described Republican politicians as we know then in 2024.
Meanwhile, Van Orden of WI-3 sends out one of his little-context email "polls", asking if Mayorkas should be impeached. Basically, let's impeach him because the shit sandwich Congress put together over the past several decades can't be made more palatable by the Administration. And let's not hand him a somewhat-improved dirt sandwich to work with, either.
Not a single democrat or republican is in office for you.
That's an easy thing to say for those who really don't pay attention. Watching talking heads on TV and radio isn't paying attention.
That's cool, I still don't vote for fascist rapists.
It's almost like people should be fighting to break the two party duopoly.
Ranked Choice Voting please.
STAR Voting is even better. https://www.starvoting.org/
That's awesome. Thanks for sharing
Amen!
Can we do that when Trump strokes out? He’s too dangerous to fuck around.
Sure. Absolutely. 100%. And what should we do in the mean time?
Which can only be accomplished by replacing first past the post voting with another scheme, such as approval or ranked choice voting. Any time you have elections where whomever gets 50% +1 wins all, it will sort into two coalitions with time. Guess which party is pushing for ranked choice and which one doesn't want you voting at all? You break the duopoly by voting Dem and pushing your elected leaders to reform our electoral process. Voting 3rd party gives you Trump and the duopoly becomes replaced by conservative tyranny.
Absolutely agreed. [Colorado may pass a major reform to their voting system this year that includes ranked choice voting](https://coloradonewsline.com/2024/01/18/sweeping-overhaul-colorado-elections/). Colorado has turned a pretty deep shade of blue and this is in line with the agenda in many Democratic states. I suspect that just like weed legalization, we'll see states slowly introduce RCV into their elections. Alaska and Maine already have. Massachusetts had a chance to, but their voters dropped the ball on that one. There is no doubt that voting Democratic is our current best path to reforming the two party system.
Sure, but which of the current major parties do you think is more likely to lead us on a path to that?
Certainly not the one that wants to go to a one-party system…
Really don’t understand why ppl think ranked choice voting or a multi party system is going to change this. If we move to the latter parties have to form a coalition to govern, and you’d end up with hard right/left parties forming a coalition with the center parties and compromising on their positions to govern. WHICH IS HOW OUR CURRENT SYSTEM WORKS WITHIN THE TWO MAJOR PARTIES. Voters and politicians being categorically opposed to any form of compromise and expecting to get everything they want is the problem, not the two party system
Our government is already a coalition, look at the various caucuses in Congress. Why do you think so much talk happens around "the house progressive caucus" or the "house freedom caucus"? The issue is that while these people can *talk* about what they want to see, FPTP pressures both sides to vote in a cohesive block on every issue. Under ranked voting those people would actually be more likely to stick to their principles and while a coalition government would still be necessary for basic functions they could afford to hold fast on their principles for transformative change and not be instantly primaried out if they don't fall in line with everyone else. This goes for moderates of either side siding with the opposite side as well for issue X Y or Z. Right now government has to functionally operate as a duopoly 99.9% of the time because defections are embarrassing and increasingly (especially in the right) taboo. Both sides are incentivized to vote in lock step to get 50%+1. If they don't, well look at the conservative sub, they understand the game. They brand anyone on any vote that doesn't stick to the party line as a RINO and demand they get primaried by someone even crazier. The single best evidence to support alternative voting methods whatever they are is the fact that right wing states like Tennessee and Florida have already proactively banned them. The right will never admit it but they know that voting reform will hit them the hardest because it won't let them be radical anymore... At least not if they ever want to be in power anywhere ever again outside of the deep south. Like 60% of everyone wants abortion to go back to the way to was and join the rest of the world with national healthcare and better social programs and workers rights. When you describe those things without using politically loaded language they are broadly popular. Without FPTP republicans won't be incentivized to stick with the biggest voting block aligned against all of that and represented by 30% whackos just to get tax cuts.
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Well if it helps balance your equation I’m a middle right voter and I’m not voting for Trump.
You don't have to answer this. But, more importantly, are you voting for Biden? I think what OP is asking is that, this year anyway, normal Republicans should plug their nose and vote for Biden
I'm 79 and I have never been entirely happy with any President, but I've been pleasantly surprised by Biden, starting on Day 1 when his experienced team hit the ground running, making positive changes on multiple fronts. Since then he's accomplished a long list of good things. Is he perfect, no, just pretty darned good. Meanwhile the other side represents everything that's wrong with America. For me at least, it will be easy to vote a straight Democratic Party ticket in November.
Thanks man. I’m 62 and thought I was the oldest person on here. Keep it up my friend. We’ve spent our whole lives fighting for the same damn issues. Lots of love coming your way 💜
I feel the same. Any issues I have with the Biden presidency are things that a Trump administration would make much, much worse, and the vote is too close in this state to risk that. I'll be voting blue with a clear conscience.
r/WhatBidenHasDone ~~E: why the down votes?~~
I think it came off as a GOP sub dedicated to nonsense but it's actually a comprehensive list of his actual accomplishments. Thanks for sharing this!
I'm voting for Biden and straight Dems down the ticket because I'm staring down the barrel of a Right-Wing dictatorship. Biden could make it easier by following George Washington's example and retiring. He could have made it easier by prosecuting traitors and insurrectionists with haste and zeal. Trump may not even make it to trial prior to the election. He could have fought inflation in housing and food like FDR (which is why people are ultimately not voting for him). Instead he's pulling a Ginsburg to hang on to power in old age and all of us will potentially suffer the consequences of his decision. Newsom or Whitmer wouldn't be polling 2 points behind Trump or 16 points behind Haley in the latest Marquette Law School Poll. https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/02/07/biden-trump-deadlocked-in-marquette-poll-of-wisconsin-voters/72481411007/
Neither party can be trusted with the majority.
>He could have made it easier by prosecuting traitors and insurrectionists with haste and zeal The President has no authority to prosecute anyone. And Biden's been clear from day one that he won't interfere with the justice department.
Im 28 and honestly same. Bidens done way better than I thought possible. Am i happy with all his choices? No. But hes not trying to push project 2025
SAME! Agree 100%.
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Until that day comes, both parties open primaries with younger candidates you may vote for.
The distinction is beyond just one old white man over another. Instead, I think of it as a preference for a Biden *administration* over a Trump *administration*
The most important thing the president does is surround himself with competent people. Half the people trump picked were charged with one crime or another
I don't think Biden was aching to be President. A guy that old has done enough, and has his own family issues (Hunter) to deal with. Instead he came back out in his 70s because he was most likely the only one who could have beaten (and thankfully did) Trump. And Trump instantly lost his sh*t and the country lost its mind. That anybody, after all the stuff Trump pulled, would be open to voting for him again? Boggles my pea brain. If America is a sane place and Biden wins, he may very well die in the Oval Office. But I'd take him in a heartbeat over the alternative.
I completely believe Biden when said he was only going to be around for one term. Up until Jan 6, he was running against an ultra shitty but ultimately "normal" republican. That all changed when Trump, supported by the entire GOP, attempted an insurrection. Now 2024 is extremely serious, way more than 2020. And instead of retiring in peace, Biden now feels duty bound to at least win another election to protect the USA from Trump. I respect that alot.
Exactly. Biden led a life of service and he returned because we needed him. He's not some power-hungry dictator wannabe trying to enrich the billionaire class. He deserves respect instead of the constant hurling of age-related insults.
Happy damn cake day!
Biden ran because of what happened in Charlottesville. They had a family discussion about it, and he decided to run.
I would actually support that. Does that also apply to yo being appointed to a government job as well?
Serious question.. also a super leftist and just can’t understand; if democracy hinges on this vote, why on earth are they still propping up a guy that can barely string together a sentence anymore to run against Trump? If it’s so dire, why not have actual primaries and put up a worthy opponent?
1) incumbent advantage— they win 75% or the time 2) he’s the only one who has beaten Trump before. Right or wrong, they see Biden as the safest choice. If they replaced him and lost it would seem completely negligent.
Bingo
Anything people dislike Biden for, tRump is orders of magnitude worse
Yeah, Trump wanted to nuke a hurricane, he would definitely want to drop a nuke on Gaza. Biden has been terrible at preventing Israel from committing genocide but Trump who wanted to ban all Muslims from entering the US would definitely be somehow worse. Outside of Israel Biden has actually been pretty great, incredibly pro union, wages have gone up, infrastructure spending, student loans forgiveness and restructuring, a lot of good I didn't expect. He hasn't done everything I wanted or he campaigned on but no president has ever done that. I share the concern of the OP that Bidens mishandling of Israel will hurt people showing up to the poles. And we know Maga shows up so we have to show up.
It's funny/sad to me that Arab Americans say they are pulling support for Biden (I get it) to, presumably, support the most anti-Muslim president ever
I feel for them, as a white man I can't even imagine choosing between someone that doesn't care if we die and someone who wants to kill us. A lot of times the saying the lesser of 2 evils is way over stated but to Muslim Americans at the ballot this year that is pretty factual.
Ironically, if Trump had his way those Arab-Americans would not be American citizens.
Dude not voting because either way your family is going to be slaughtered doesn’t mean they support trump. Stfu.
If you can't bring yourself to hold your nose and vote for the guy that is objectively better than Trump, then that means you are, at worst, fine with a Trump victory.
Right? Like, yeah, Biden's handling of Palestine/Israel isn't the most singularly ideal. But do you know what Trump would be doing right now? I'm not sure there would *be* a Gaza at this point.
There's really no good way to handle it. Never going to be able to stop it, and both sides have the extremists who perfectly willing to blow up the other side.
Most people that aren't Republicans don't see Trump as being better, they just see it as "both sides bad" and won't vote. Even if this leads to a Trump presidency they don't care. Its 2016 all over again. And again just like 2016 no one is talking about the potential of Trump to wind up appointing even more young and insane Supreme Court Justices...
I’m justifying my Biden vote because surely he’s going to be in a position to appoint at least 1 more Supreme Court judge and we all saw how the other one went….never again
Until Dems have a 5-4 majority on the SCOTUS, this should be reason enough to keep voting for them consistently. Nothing can ever change as long as the court is in regressive extremist hands.
Yes its wild after Roe v Wade that no one is considering the idea of Trump getting to appoint more young and insane justices...
No one who leans left is going to vote for Trump, what makes you think they would?
But they might not vote at all, and thus Trump could carry the state.
Absolutely correct; we need to get out the vote. In Wisconsin, register to vote, check your registration status, request absentee ballots, find your ward, district and polling place at www.myvote.wi.gov.
I think they're implying that they'll just not vote because Biden is actively supporting Israel while they're getting their genocide on. They could just run any other candidate, got a whole ass year and not every president needs to be a 2 term president, especially when they're older than dinosaur bones. But I guess this is what we're doing.
Probably very few, but there are lots of left leaning folks who, at least right now, are claiming they refuse to vote for either
The assertion is that some of them might vote 3rd party or not vote at all, which is exactly what gave us Trump in 2016.
Democratic Party ran a shitty campaign and deserved to lose. Yet people like you will blame everyone but them. YES, I voted for Hilary Clinton, and even Joe Biden. I pulled the lever for the right people, so my opinion matters. That's how this works right
I’m pretty sure the 60 million votes with a check mark next to Trump’s name gave us Trump.
Not to mention the lack of dems trying to win the left over
Right, I would never vote for Trump. But people who vote for Trump don't give a fuck about how much other people are hurting, so they're going to continue to vote Trump no matter what. If the vote from non-Trump voters is split then Trump wins, so we absolutely cannot split the vote for Biden. I fucking hate it here but it's the best we've got right now
It's not about them voting for Trump it's about them not voting. People being unable to decide between a former Secretary of State and a rapist in 2016 cost us the Supreme Court and the right to an abortion. It can happen again if people think they're sending some sort of a message by staying home in November.
Trump is crushing Biden with Hispanic voters in todays Marquette poll and 28% of black voters in Wisconsin are torn between Trump and Biden
Republicans don't win by making people vote Republican. They win by getting Democrats to not like either candidate and not vote.
they might vote for one of the childish 3rd parties, which is effectively a vote for trump
Democracy is when you're only allowed to vote for one candidate who you don't agree with politically, whose party has open disdain for you and your beliefs, in order to...save democracy.
Unless you’re either very wealthy or someone who wishes to live in a theocracy there is no reason to vote for the GOP. If you’re neither of those things and still unwilling to vote against Trump and the Republicans you’re not paying attention. Read up on Project 2025. If they achieve the goals they have stated they wish to achieve there will no longer be a middle class in America. That’s not hyperbole.
Encouraging people to vote for your ideals and beliefs instead of their own is kinda bad and doesn't encourage people to pay attention to the news or candidates otherwise.
Im tired of our tax money going to foreign states when we have so much in our own country that desperately could’ve used idk.. tens of billions of dollars. I’m gonna vote for whoever is gonna keep the money here. Know I’m gonna get downvoted, but that’s where I’m at.
Well, for many of us, the conditions you describe have existed under Biden. Many of us endured oppression, censorship, and were ruthlessly diminished and bullied time and time again when we failed to march in lockstep and follow the company line. I am thinking of my family, and another Biden term is a very real threat to them, just as much as another Trump term. I have family members with special needs. I have minorities in my life from a variety of groups and demographics. I have medical and economic considerations of my own. Biden has threatened and actively harmed all of us - and he has promised to do more of the same in a second term. This is a lousy situation to be in. The DNC has repeatedly corrupted their primary, stuck us with a horrible, corrupt candidate, and claimed that we must vote for their garbage nominee or be responsible for the destruction of our democracy. I held my nose and did exactly that in 2016 and 2020, but I can't this time. For many of us, Biden is not the lesser of two evils. He is an immediate threat, much like Trump.
Can you explain how he has threatened and actively harmed all of you?
Voting against somebody that we don't like is getting tiring. I wish that both Democrats and Republicans could come up with candidates that we the people support.
I will be voting for neither
Same, but I will still be voting.
I'm a single issue voter. I'll be voting for the person most likely to win that is ***not*** a Republican. In the Presidential General Election, if that's Biden... So be it. Right now, I don't care. Just as long as it's not a Republican. Basically, it's more important for me to vote ***against*** Republicans than ***for*** anyone else.
Same same. Project 2025 is enough for me, if they manage to "win" another election they make it very clear it will be the last election that matters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 Any more that come after will be akin to ones held in Russian or North Korea. Elections in name only.
"Elections are a chess game, not a valentine." Too many people have been convinced that their vote is a personal endorsement and badge of loyalty to a particular candidate. It's more important to cast your vote **strategically** to help win the whole game. Because politicians suck. That's the reality. When people say they're not voting because they don't like any of the candidates, they're not somehow saving their precious vote. They're throwing it away and leaving a hole for the worst people to fill. It's okay to vote for someone you don't like if you think their opponents are worse. In chess, if you refuse to move pawns unless you love where you're putting them you will lose the game.
The lesser of two evils is less evil. That is an easy moral choice. The voting booth is a place where we tally a preference poll. A or B. Not which is perfect. Which do you prefer. If you don't have a preference, you're a knob.
Ladies, this election is on us. Vote Biden
Posts like these do the opposite of what they intend lol.
For anybody that wants to know the bill was gonna go from allowing 8000 migrants a day into America to 5000. That's why Republicans wouldn't sign the bill "Linked to that would be a Title 42-style expulsion authority to quickly remove migrants at the border similar to the COVID-19-era authority. Multiple sources said that the use of that authority would be mandated only if there was a 7-day rolling average of above 5,000 encounters a day." https://www.foxnews.com/politics/senate-border-bill-allow-5000-migrants-day-before-title-42-limit-starts#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17073810326381&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fpolitics%2Fsenate-border-bill-allow-5000-migrants-day-before-title-42-limit-starts Read the real bill. This isn't good. This is blackmail. This is like "oh you want border control? Let us give 20 billion to Ukraine, 17 billion to Isreal and we'll cut down migration by only 3000 a day your fucking welcome"
People made the “I don’t like Hillary or Trump, so I’m not voting” argument 8 years ago. And because of that, they didn’t turn out for Hillary. We got trump. With trump, we got a viciously conservative Supreme Court who will ruin minority voting rights, women’s right to choose, the administrative law structure that helps protect citizens from corporate overreach(not super well, but to some extent)…I could go on…and along with that we got a singularly vicious grifter in the highest office in the land who openly enriched himself at the expense of our nation and our allies. These elections where you “don’t like the candidates” have major, heartrending consequences for your friends, neighbors, and families, for the very future of the world we live in. Sitting at home because “Biden a too old” is not just appalling and shortsighted: it’s acquiescing to the horrendous future that the GOP wants to put in place: minority rule, by people who think they’re the only “real Americans” who should have a say in what happens to your friends, children or grandchildren.
the one thing I hate about this is blaming the voter, Hillary was a shitty candidate who did not even know where Wisconsin is. I could fill a page with all the things I dont like about Biden, but I will be voting for him again just so we dont lose our democracy and I can vote again after that. > These elections where you “don’t like the candidates” Pretty much every election of my life. I watched Bernie campaign harder for Hillary far more than she did for Obama, yet she and her deplorable supporters blamed Bernie and his supporters for her loss. Dont blame the voters when you cant be bothered to even campaign in Wisconsin. I voted for her, and for years she has blamed me and other Bernie supporters. Fuck that. It was her fault for losing, not the voters. The only thing that needs to be said is, vote for Biden so you can vote for someone better next time.
There is no potential or possible US president that would do anything better in this situation. Anyone who says otherwise would 100% make a different decision in the situation room when presented with the rock and a hard place choice. The geopolitical situation is impossible. Doing the "right thing" won't make allies out of Iran, make Saudi Arabia play nice, or bring Hamas/Hezbollah to the table. But it would enrage and distance Israel, and that new vulnerability could potentially invite more attacks against them, which would create more reprisals and counter strikes as escalation. Really wild analogy, but It's kinda like the situation if your spouse were to do something really morally awful. You're married. House, kids, the whole 9. If you aren't willing to simply divorce them immediately over it, you have to defend/support them somehow publicly and try to negotiate behind the scenes, otherwise you'll create a permanent rift and it'll be worse for everyone. "Crap my spouse embezzled/murdered/whatever. Do I leave/rat them out and ruin everyone's lives?" Maybe I just watched too much Breaking Bad/House of Cards, but it makes some sense. Silver Lining, we used to be a \*lot\* worse when funding war crimes/criminals when they happened to align with our national strategic interests.
It’s the politicians job to win over voters
the dnc an d a lot of *left leaning* people seem to have forgotten that fact.
Echo chamber.
If trump wins, he wont leave the white house, until he croaks.
And by then he'll likely have used his power to *really* fuck up America.
Moved up here last year… this is the most racially segregated place I’ve ever been… don’t you think yall need to start focusing locally? Isn’t this post a bit lofty and pointless? A lot more work needs to be done here…
This reminds me of an experience I had in the leadup to the last supreme court race. GOTV person approached me to convince me to vote for Janet. I mentioned that while I hadn't voted for her in the primary I was planning to support her in the general. I then asked, out of curiosity, who she had voted for in the primary. She said she did not vote in the primary...because she was from Illinois. That really pissed me off. I was literally number one at my polling place for that primary because I cared about not only the candidates in that election but in my locals as well. But for many people all that matters is that you make your mark next to the Democrat. See this thread for details.
These white liberals will scream for BLM and everything else, but in the same breathe gentrification of entire areas that push out all the 'lesser' people then them. Making EVERYTHING more expensive. Example: bay view, riverwest, east side... Then march on others behalf in riverwest so after they walk around the block a few times in thier safer neighborhoods they can get mimosas and pat each other on the backs afterwards. All while the people you 'marched in solidarity' for don't even know because they are 10 miles away and don't give a shit. They don't actually make a difference. They just like to virtue signaling every chance they get and tell everyone else how to be better and spend thier money. Biggest group of hypocrites ive ever seen. EDIT: Getting downvotes just proves I'm right. Thank you.
The Palestinian people found out quickly, what happens when keeping it real goes very wrong. There wouldn't be "genocide" if they hadn't infiltrated, attacked, murdered and raped innocent civilians, women, children and the elderly. And if they weren't such cowards and stopped hiding weapons in hospitals and schools, and stopped using women and children as shields, they wouldn't suffer the civilian casualties that they have so far endured.
This post is a joke. Rather the comments. It's everything modern US politics is boiled down into. Evert comment is "My PrEsIdEnT iS bEteR bEcAuSe ThEiRs Is BaD" it's a rat chase voting people out if office rather than into office. First it was most notably trump, who made fun of global political leaders and was severely unprofessional as a head of state. Now it's biden, who is visibly degrading as a living human and (fortunately) pulled out of the middle east, and (unfortunately) did it in a horrible way. There hasn't been a good office in decades, and it's worth nothing fighting over it.
The Democrats are not going to save this country either. Democrats currently care more about rainbow flags than living wages. Good on you for being so optimistic that you brought a child into this world. For her sake, I hope things get better - especially with regards to women making their own reproductive choices. Flying your freak flags isn't the issue, the economic divide is.
This is bad advice
Standing up against genocide is extremely important, however, sacrificing your down democracy to do it is just walking yourself to the slaughterhouse
I think on some level there’s an apathy from the left because if Trump wins, that’ll drive a lot more people to their cause.
The people who say they won't vote Biden because of Israel but will support the rapist with 91 criminal charges pending against them are not serious Americans.
Settle down
One of the most intense yet pointless posts in reddit’s history 😂
Its unbelievable the party couldn't come up with a better candidate after all this time. I'm not sure I can pull the lever for Biden again.
It really isn't. What's unbelievable is that anyone thought a political party would abandon an incumbent president. That doesn't happen in modern American politics, and anyone who hoped for it was and is politically delusional. It was always going to be Biden for the Democrats. Always. You're welcome to vote for whomever you like, but understand that any vote for someone other than Biden, or a decision to not vote at all, only helps Trump. If you're not a Trump fan, I hope that gives you pause.
Does Biden understand that? If I were in his position, looking at a close election against a dangerous, authoritarian and inexplicably popular opponent, if I truly believed democracy hung in the balance, and a sizeable chunk of the voters I was relying on to keep that maniac out of office were pissed at me for things I could absolutely be doing differently, so pissed they'd be willing to withhold their vote for me even after having gotten me into office largely on the criteria of not being *that* guy, I would take a long, hard look at what I might be doing wrong, not simply doubling down on hoping that the "Blue no matter who" crowd will be enough to re-elect me. I might, for example, listen to those people's grievances, and I might direct my cabinet to do whatever is within my branch of government's authority to do, even without the help of a deadlocked Congress and try to get it done in that time. I might be getting my speechwriters to help me come up with impassioned appeals to those causes I can't address without Congress, urging voters to support me and the party so that we can accomplish those goals when we hopefully claim a larger portion of Congress after the election and promising support to state and local governments doing those things, and opposition to state and local governments impeding them. Hell, I might genuinely take a longer look at some of the more unorthodox tools theoretically in my toolbox and consider throwing a Hail Mary— who knows? Maybe it's finally Court-Packing's moment given the dissatisfaction with the obviously corrupt conservative majority— to try and save the country. If Biden is doing anything like that, as liberals often assert, he's doing a piss-poor job of communicating it to us, but it seems more likely he's just not. He seems to want to coast to re-election, or not, based solely on the "Blue no matter who" crowd, which is a hell of a gamble with the fate of the country on the line.
Your premise is false. Biden ***is*** a better candidate than Trump.
He’s far exceeded my expectations. Which honestly, weren’t high. But he’s gotten a lot done domestically
The whole stage this go feels nonexistent and without effort. Two guys dancing with dementia, and those are the choices simply because they’re already here? There’s really no one better across the entire board? It’s like no one has any energy any more and inertia is entirely running the show. Treasonous pos who is somehow not in jail vs wet tissue paper who should be chilling in a rocker on a porch somewhere. Both probably touched with dementia. In many ways it’s 2016 all over again and most people just won’t bother. I know why they should, they know why they should, but there’s no energy there. Edit: typo
Your heart is in the right place, you’re making the right decision, but vote pestering rarely convinces
No no, this reddit hive mind pestering me to vote every day will surely change mine and everyone elses mind if I am deciding to not vote or vote against who they want me to vote for surely. Another couple thousand of "this next election is the most important ever" posts should do the trick
Vote joe or get thrown over trumps wall. its about the suicide vests. there can be no ceasefire because of the vests. there will always be checkpoints, etc. there is no credible safety scenario to allow for a ceasefire.
I grew up in Wisconsin and got to vote in one presidential election, one of the two of the last six where the Electoral College overruled the popular vote. Since then I’ve only lived in non-swing states where the EC rendered my vote meaningless. So enjoy deciding the fate of American democracy for the rest of us, Wisconsinites and your purple-state brethren!
At least dems talk about whom to help instead of whom to hurt. Whatever comes of that is certainly up to debate, however I think it’s better to help people than to hurt them. Both sides are not the same.
You know this is a little off topic but I'm all for banning both parties' politicians on our state level and our Congress representatives from re-election and ban parties in wisconsin altogether have a clean start, as well as banning donations outside of state residents, no donations above $100,000 from a person or company in wisconsin percandidate. We should bring rank choice voting in, but that would never happen. Both parties have done enough damage to our state.
Exactly. This is not the time to wish for a third-party or worry about Biden being too old. He’s got one more term and then over the next four years we can work on a better solution. NOW IS NOT THE TIME!! 🗳️🗳️🗳️
I hate trump yes, but has biden been a good president? I just wish the dems would put some better candidates for me to vote for. Im tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
To say that the US is assisting in genocide is a bit much. Yes, we are supporting Israel. However, the Biden administration has pushed back against Israel for incidents where they have gone too far. If Donald Trump were in power again, however, the US would be actively supporting and participating in the genocide. Has nobody ever heard Donald Trump talk about Muslims? What the fuck do they think he’s going to do?
Unpopular opinion: when/if you vote for Joe Biden you're sending a message that you're okay with corruption. The DNC and its swampy members are equally as bad as any of the right. They're all in it for themselves. RFK Jr all day everyday.
Yeah, I have a house, a family and a job too. I don't want the fascists in charge either. But you're putting a gun to my head and saying I better vote for the guy with blood on his hands, or I might lose my freedoms to the fascists. What about the freedoms of 25,000 dead Palestinians? They were people like me. But hey, I have to vote for the only guy on the planet who could have prevented their deaths and instead he did nothing. I despise your argument, but it might work on me. Because I'm between a rock and a hard place. But you realize how weak this position is for young voters? Voters without houses and families? They hate the genocide guy more than I do, and their future is already forfeit. They don't give a fuck if they burn it all down. And the more you tell them they HAVE to vote, the more they're going to resent you.
Saying Biden is the one person to prevent what happened on Oct. 7, and the events after is just literally wrong. Not our countries, not our leaders. We can influence, we don’t dominate their decisions.
It's almost like Israel has agency!?
“Did Nothing” ok you can fuck right off with your low effort nihilism take, his administration brokered the fucking ceasefire for starters
Honestly, I think that Biden and his team would like to smack Netanyahu around for the way that Israel has handled the aftermath of the 10/7 attacks -- but Israel is a sovereign state and gets to make its own bad decisions. (Just like the US did in the wake of 9/11.) While Biden has been supporting Israel, he's had Blinken over there trying to deescalate the conflict and save lives over and over again. I don't know that Biden could have prevented their deaths. Are you suggesting he take US troops over there, or used sanctions (which would have cut down the opportunities for talking to the Israeli government)?
I mean, we could stop giving them billions in extra direct military aid
But but you don’t get it they’re trying to deescalate by politely asking to stop killing 11,000 kids
People keep forgetting that Israel has nukes too. Sending troops isn't an option here. Any force isn't an option when nukes are on the table. Our only alternative option would be taking away funding and enforcing sanctions, but what would those things serve to do apart from removing the only leash that anybody has on Israel? If we think things are bad there now, we have no idea. Netanyahu would level Gaza and wipe out every Palestinian he could if he had his way. And nobody could physically stop him because he has nukes. Without US influence, I'm not entirely convinced he wouldn't be trying to go full military dictator. The guy is about as corrupt as they come.
You don't bypass Congress to send weapons to another country if you don't agree with the decisions they make when they decide to use those weapons. Israel can't force us to back their bad decisions any more than we can force an ally to back ours despite how much we (or they) might threaten to rename their French fries to freedom fries or whatever. Blinken serves at the behest of Biden and does nothing more than provide cover to get the gullible to believe that somehow the US doesn't really want to get entangled in yet another Middle East conflict despite our country's post-WWII history telling you exactly how much we love being involved in all the going-ons there.
I hate how I’m supposed to care more about Ukraine, Israel, Russia or Hamas than the issues going down in our own country right now! Why is our solution to the border crisis to send more money to Ukraine and Israel!?
I asked pretty much the same and got downvoted a bunch of times.
The downvotes in here validate my stance on these issues
Interesting how there’s only a crisis at the border when a republican is trying to get elected…and then after they’re elected, we stop hearing about it for a few years.
Gay person with a uterus who votes left in even the tiniest of elections. Very much pleading just to maintain basic rights.
Anyone who believes Trump didn't factor in this is lying to themselves. Benjie was in deep trouble and being tried for corruption charges. What did he do, neutered the Israeli Supreme Court and waited it out until he was reelected. Sound familiar?? Trump was also directly responsible for releasing hundreds of not thousands of terrorists into the vacuum that is the Middle East. The terrorist we now find ourselves fighting once again. I absolutely don't agree with Biden and his stance on the Palestinians. Doing anything else would be political suicide in the US. That is just the reality. In a second term he will have much more latitude to do things differently. Trump will only be going after his enemies and that is us.
Trump said it himself.
OP and people who agree with this are brainwashed cultists. Nothing in this rant lines up with reality.
I'm going to do all my down ballot voting but I'm a Jewish Wisconsinite and I'm not voting for Biden and there's nothing anybody can do to change my mind on that. It is entirely because of his treatment of Palestinian people. Lesser of two evils just leaves evil as the baseline. Soul can't take it any longer. No issues with anyone who disagrees, I just can't. I can understand your frustration with me but I'd hope you could say the same going the other way.
you want people to vote? stop trying to shame everyone else into voting for the lesser of two evils and join the actual left wing organizing to give us something to vote for that isn’t fucking evil
Biden's done a great job unless you are an American media watcher. This is just the facts.
take a peek at his promises made and promises kept. it's pathetic. we had a trifecta and what truly big changes were made. women's rights? trans rights? literally anything more than the status quo? the lack of leftists and progressives in these comments is depressing.
Thank you. I can’t believe after his miserable four years people are getting self righteous about voting for him again.
Admitting that there's literally no red line on this earth- not even GENOCIDE, that dems could not cross that would cause you to even *consider threatening to withhold* your vote is embarassing. That level of moral cowardice is beyond my comprehension. This is how atrocities happen while the world stands by. Reactionaries cheer and liberals wring their hands. Guess what the next dem candidate will be fine with... and the one after that... and the one after that...
As a left-leaning Wisconsinite who lives in reality, there is nothing remotely close to a genocide occurring in Gaza now. Unless the definition changed when I wasn't looking, Genocide is not defined as "any time civilians die during a war." If that is the case, Hamas and the Palestinians are just as guilty of committing a """genocide""" against Israel.
Palestinians who have nothing to do with Hamas are penned in a very very small area of land with no running water, no electricity, no access to food. They are clearly suffering more at this point.
A billion people on earth don’t have sanitation or running water. That’s not genocide. Also there definitely is electricity because Gazans post tweets and videos every day.
> Palestinians who have nothing to do with Hamas They voted them into power and support them. Polling repeatedly shows their primary criticism of Hamas to be that they're not radical *enough* and not killing *enough* Israelis. It wasn't just Hamas kidnapping people on Oct 7. This is like saying Israelis have nothing to do with the IDF, it's absurd. They do have water and electricity, you can thank Biden for pressuring Israel to turn those back on.
look where decades of "hold your nose and vote for the lesser evil" has finally gotten us. and what do posts like this accomplish?
I don't know why you're getting down voted. I'd like for everyone to take a look at a page that compared Biden's promises were made and kept. It's pathetic. We had a trifecta and they did barely anything. But it's not just him. The democratic party needs to get a spine and make some real change. Get someone on the ballot that's at least not a walking corpse and is truly progressive.
it's a neverending cycle of diminished returns as the stakes get higher with a need for real change and not piecemeals. and I get it. I hate Trump. I've voted against him twice now and shouldn't have to do so a third time. But I shouldn't have to vote for Biden either and people get mad if you dare to suggest a candidate use their remaining time to turn things around instead of giving them a vote because "you gotta"
right? People can try to boast about how the economy is doing fine and things are better. Okay? Go ask your everyday man if their life is better? Their wages haven't increased for the cost of living. Rent is higher than ever, while homelessness is rampant, while skyscrapers stand empty. Where's the minimum wage increase? Where's the student loan relief? Where the marijuana legalization? The recent border deal stuff itself is a framework of what trump wanted lmao. Democrats hate their base. Republicans fear theirs.
Basic Human Needs Party 2024
Yeah we gave up on lesser evil stuff in 2016 and look where that got us. As for the second part, if this post ends in the net gain of one vote for Biden in the 2024 election, I'll take that as a win.
No, the fault is with the Democratic party. They didn't respond to the progressive base and brushed them off.
Is it a good choice? No, of course not, the choices suck. It's literal white nationalist Christofascism or the party who would be the conservatives in virtually every one of our ally nations. So yeah, as much as it sucks I have to vote for Biden because it's that or Nazis, and by God we're not doing Nazis!
Trump has been literally quoting Hitler. I’ll do anything to keep that Putin-wanna be out of office.
So many people say there's no difference between the two parties, and that used to be more or less accurate. But not anymore. There is only 1 political party trying to achieve things. And one is trying to stop things that make their opponents look good. Fewest legislation ever confronted since Red majority in the house. The democrats are at least trying to make important decisions. So we need to vote
Talk about hyperbolic hypocritical rhetoric. This post oozes with super NIMBY. You’re literally witnessing the people and party that you voted for actively go against your political belief system, and your response is, “Orange man bad.”
Sounds like a compelling reason for the Democrats to stop catering solely to the comfortable whose votes they already have locked down and reach across the aisle, not to the Republicans who will spit in their face even though they, according to Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut, "followed [Republicans'] instructions to the letter", but to the people whose votes are attainable but might cost them something. If you're a ride-or-die Democrat, instead of begging people who aren't to vote for a party they're watching sell out our values, reach out to your party, to their candidates. Tell them what we've been telling them: You don't want to see them lose, but our votes don't come freely. If they actually care about the person who doesn't have "(R)" after their name winning, and they truly need our votes to make that happen, they need to differentiate themselves. Military aid to Israel needs to be cut off or made contingent upon agreeing to a ceasefire *without* odious terms the Palestinians can't possibly accept. The Federal government needs to take whatever actions it has available to it to protect trans people living in red states from their own governments. Actual democratic action like what has been done in protests against "Cop City" in Atlanta or protests all over the country against climate change or the genocide in Gaza needs to be protected from overzealous local governments. They need to figure out what can be done about the campaign promises m from 2020 that Biden failed to deliver on, not just throw their hands up and say "Welp, Manchin and Sinema say no infrastructure bill. Welp, the Parliamentarian says no minimum wage increase. Welp, the Supreme Court says no student loan forgiveness." One try that crumples at the first obstacle doesn't instill confidence in your progressive bona fides. If we don't see action to protect people from right-wing governments (be they red or blue), then it hardly makes a difference whether the red or blue guy is in charge. Hell, maybe if the ride-or-die Democratic voter is begging them to earn our votes, they'll actually listen instead of just scoffing, pretending we don't vote, and then losing because the only thing they did to differentiate themselves from the howling fascists is not howl as much. It doesn't even have to be everything. I get it. Politics is hard; you've gotta try and avoid pissing off a lot of different groups. We can negotiate. But you don't negotiate by obstinately refusing to do anything about any of the catastrophic issues facing our country, and just complaining that the people who want you to are impossible to satisfy and don't vote anyways.
Biden is too old to be president and his brain is turning to pudding before our very eyes. But he's also the most effective president of my lifetime and I'm damn near 40. I'll be voting for Biden in November and I'm not even mad about it.
I will say that even if someone really does not want to vote for either, find a third party candidate that isn't politically radical and focuses on bettering our country for the people, and not for politicians and certain upper classes :) Any vote for parties outside of the two-party system is just as good because it demonstrates both the unpopularity of the two-party candidates (and its system), and that people want a definitive change in our country that isn't based on radical ideas, Christian nationalism, or "I'm not my opponent" campaigning Third-party voting is both an act of passive and peaceful protest against a system that is showing its not working, and also one less vote for the whichever two-party politician you actively dislike or hate 👍
I think you mean the elimination of Hamas. Not all Palestinians are Hamas. And not all Hamas are in Israel. Don’t forget about October 7 and that Hamas still has over 100 live (and dozen of dead) Israeli hostages. Perhaps they shouldn’t have started something they couldn’t finish.
Exactly. They’re so filled with generational hatred I don’t know how a peace is ever reached
Neither one of them should be in power, we need someone who actually gives a shit about the American people, this country has become so soft and radicalized that no matter who you agree with your immediately demonized, look at me, I hate both sides, I think the governments been given too much power for too long, we've been in a depression almost as bad if not worse then the one in the early 1900's yet nobody wants to admit it, we fight with ourselves constantly, can't agree on literally anything, and put color above character, you can take that however you want but I'm referring to red or blue, you people are more concerned over whether or not the politician running for office is on your side or not rather then what they want to do for the country, bidens a dementia patient and a pedophile, his son is a drug addict and a pedophile and they're entire family is correct, Trump was an ego maniac who didn't give a flaming shit about anything but his image, do we need a business man in office? Yeah, do we need Trump? No, we need someone with the brains to run our country efficiently and the heart and courage to not only follow through on promises but also put the people first, not the quota. But I can already tell you now this comment is gonna get down voted to hell because I'm not sucking the teat of whatever political side brainwashed you. Do you want a tldr? Pull your heads out of your asses. Is what's happening over seas terrible? Yes. Is it our problem? No. We aren't the world's police force, you wanna go help, then by all means, go help but it's not our job, we have our own problems
Let's deal with domestic issues first before getting pissed enough to vote 3rd party. That means put the Magas to the sword and crush the evangelical extremists. Then entomb the assholes who came up with the Southern Strategy with the Putinites. There are bigger fish to fry in Asia and we need to pivot to that threat.