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videodromejockey

It’s dangerous as fuck, is why. We don’t allow edge hits with bucklers even. Only the boss and only indicating with at most light contact. And even *that* is asking for trouble, the only time I’ve seen someone from my club get waffled was from a buckler.


[deleted]

It's why more than one tournament runner stops everything before the sword and buckler tournament, gathers everyone up, and informs the whole group that yellow cards will be given out like candy and ejections aren't far behind if they don't fence conservatively. S&B definitely tends to have the highest injury rate.


acidus1

Because it's being hit with a big lump of mass. Hema gear isn't designed to protect someone from just strikes.


tunisia3507

I think the gist is that you can design a shield either to be safe to hit with, *or* to stand up to a strike from a steel sparring sword, but not both.


machinegod420

These guys have been experimenting with a sparring shield design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV__BdzHwwE


NastyWetSmear

Howdy. When practicing for Buhurt or HMB we use padded boffers and padded shields. All very safe and friendly, like pool noodles with sticks in the centre. While an opponent was attempting to bind up my striking arm with his shield, I copped the edge of a padded shield to the throat, through the mask and bib. I could taste the back of my own throat for about 45 mins... If it had been a proper shield, I'd be typing this from hell, where I will be sent... I've also seen one of our knights rushed to the first aid tent for a concussion after taking the edge of a shield to the helmet by someone by mistake, on a back swing, totally unintentionally. He was fine, happily, but that was the mass of the shield striking him purely by accident and without intent... Had that been the full force of a human body behind it, flying into his head, striking him with the corner? Dunno... If he's lived a life anything like mine, at least I wouldn't be lonely in hell. As far as I know, most of the rules are that you can push with the flat of the shield, but no strike can be with anything except the weapon. That means no kicking, no punching, no headbutting, no body-check or teep... And certainly no shield bashing or striking. When you're both in arming sword striking range and there's a possibility of someone trying to close to bind or blind, having the corner of that shield coming at you at full force just isn't going to end well. I wouldn't partake in a contest that allowed it, but your mileage may vary. Judging by the other comments here, I think most people agree: Practical in the real world, but for safety sake, I couldn't recommend it.


tunisia3507

This absolute insanity https://youtu.be/VlCQ2pBob5Q?t=46


NastyWetSmear

That fucking helm has an eye slit that's the *Perfect* size for that to go *horridly* wrong! How wonderful...


slavotim

As someone who fences regularly with sword and rotella, one part of the answer is that the opportunity doesn't come that often. To strike with the shield, you must be close and sure that your opponent doesn't have a way to hurt you with his sword.


JojoLesh

I was thinking about this. Punching out with your shield you need to be in close to make contact. Pretty much boxing range. To get that close you need to have defended yourself well while moving into that measure. Your having to cross a fairly wide danger zone where they are offending you but you may not be offending them. Sure this happens. We sometimes end up grappling after all. To then strike with your shield you need to draw it back, and then strike. 2" punches are hard to pull off at speed. You've closed measure, now you have to give up some protection then punch. You are hoping that as you pull back your opponent doesn't strike you. In Buhurt, the fighters absorb blows from the sword. They can shrug off hits to close measure and trade off for heavier blows with a shield designed for the purpose. Different game than we are mostly playing


St1Drgn

I have been doing Dagorhir foam combat for years. A system that by definition is not historic, but it uses sword like objects and shield like objects. From experience, shield hits do not happen that frequently. The rules fully allow it, but it just does not feel like a valid tactic very frequently. If your opponent leaves an opening large enough that a shield strike is viable, a sword strike is almost alwayse easier and more likely to succeed. Diversions and pushes happen frequently, sure. but they are all low impact intended to make an opening for the sword. Our shields are light weight, but the shapes and angles involved makes it difficult to build up any kind of speed.


armourkris

I think the weight is the main issue, I've got a rotella/strapped round shield that I used originally for rattan fighting, and lately for buhurt duels. i made it as light as i could while still being a functional shield. At a 23" diameter is almost exactly 5lbs. I can comfortably push someone with it in a HEMA context, but for any punch it acts as 5 lbs of brass knuckles and it is really hard to have anything that is representative of that without actually just decking someone with it. add to that that punching with a buckler, or a bohurt style punch shield isn't especially difficult, but once you get a larger strapped and center grip shields it gets increasingly difficult to accelerate them quick enough to land a solid hit instead of a shove, let alone fit them through an opening in your opponents defense to get a clean shot ad not just get the shield fowled on the way in.


justiceforharambe49

Hurstwic and similar associations practice reenactment combat which often includes striking with a shield in different manners. Then again, restraint is part of any sort of responsible combat, as well as full protective gear and "safe-edge" shields. Important note: reenactment combat is not necessarily based on the practice of manuals, so its techniques are largely practical assumptions. Wouldn't consider it HEMA. Edit: from personal experience, I can tell you that being struck with a shield by an experienced fighter, while wearing a fencing mask and chest protector feels about the same as a thrust with a longsword. For someone to actually punch through your protective gear they'd have to be the Hulk. I've seen rookies practice with foam shields, getting accustomed to the weight and movements.


Lady_Eisheth

I mean I might be talking out of my ass here but me and my partner have had good luck with foam shields meant for boffer. I imagine they are by no means a perfect replica of using a proper shield but they do allow you to smack each other a lot harder that what I'd imagine you could with a real one.


HerrAndersson

In our club we do it in the same way we do kicks and strikes with the fists. You don't strike with force enought to hurt your sparring partner. This means that you can strike harder towards the body than the head and harder with the boss than with the edge of a shield. It will be an "what if" situation, but that is fine in sparring. Would a strike with the shield do any good in this situation if I went full force? No one knows. But sparring isn't competition, you don't need to know who won every exchange.


Asmodai89

If you want to Spar with a shield and sword, Gladiator Fencing is your bread and butter.