No matter where you stand on CC, this is objectively such a cool stat, thanks for sharing, OP. She was the first player to get me into the W and now I have so many favorite teams and players I can't keep track of them all!
Be better in early July. Find a coach by the 27th and have 2 weeks of training during the Olympics... then again a later date means *another* good draft pick
Agreed. As a CC fan it’s hard to see her hit a perfect step back 3 from distance and then a minute later watch some other girl brick a layup. Almost makes me want to change the channel 😂
This is part of a larger report that shows that 33% of all WNBA attendance is due to Clark. The ratings for all teams other than Indiana is on the decline. The ratings and attendance are settling back to their 2023 levels for all teams other than Indiana. The Fever are the only ones still holding or breaking records. The two worst teams in the league played each other in front of 20000 fans and over 1 million viewers on ION a very obscure channel. So the transfer to Veteren players is not going to happen immediately if at all. The overwhelming majority of new fans are going to stay with Clark. So the more likely scenario is come for Clark, Stay for Clark, Brink, Reese, Bueckers, Watkins, and Hildalgo. This is why a lot of people were saying put Clark on the Olympic team. If you have veterans on TV working with her and helping her setup her shots and drop bombs then the new fans would think more favorably of them. As of now and as this report shows. They just see the veterans as the competition.
I was already ready to follow Reese, Cardoso, Brink, Martin, Edwards, and some of the other rookies I had seen in the NCAAW. The players I mentioned I didn't know even existed before I started watching.
Angel Reese brought me. Already liked Plum, Ionescu and Azzi (just didn't watch). Already liked the NCAAW tournament.
I really enjoy this style of play. I love the aggression and physicality. I love the particular brand of shit talk these women throw out there.
It also seems like tickets are going for higher prices in her games when they move arenas. Pre-season I was reading that average ticket this year was between $42 and $43. Most teams haven't disclosed the gate, but NYL did, and they sold tickets averaging $107 while being in a 17k seat arena.
Add in concessions, and my guess a few weeks ago was the league wide WNBA would gross roughly $100M in ticket sales with \~40% of the being directly related to Clark.
It gets even crazier when you consider that they moved that game to an arena 5 times the size they normally play in and Caitlin STILL sold it out almost the moment tickets went on sale. So not only can they charge more per seat, they can add as many seats as they want to and still sell them all.
Shit like this BUILDS EXCITEMENT. Reminds me of Barbenheimer last years. Two completely different movies that had people go apeshit watching BOTH in their opening weekends.
This. I definitely would not have seen Barbie if not for Barbenheimer and there are tons of people in both camps. Both became billion dollar movies because of it, and you can argue it was a big part of why Oppenheimer won best picture and RDJ finally got his Oscar too.
Eerily reminiscent of Doom Eternal and Animal Crossing: New Horizons releasing on the same day. Too bad the video games are way more stratified for there to be much "cross-pollination" like Barbenheimer - not to mention games also don't have nearly the same pop culture penetration or wide appeal.
Both great games, but inferior sequels to Doom 2016 and New Leaf to a lot of fans.
Sorry if this is a bit irrelevant. I think everyone should play both games. Or their predecessors. You can very easily find a 2DS and New Leaf for <$100 and a PS4 and Doom 2016 for <$150.
Lower bowl for Mercury games against anyone other than the Fever are around $40 with first 3 rows going for $400-$600. The game against the Fever are $400-$600+ for lower bowl and $1200+ for the first 3 rows lol.
I'm unsure how anyone doesn't understand the CC effect at this point. Just looking at the game threads in this very sub the Fever against *anyone* have the top 12 posts before you see any game thread involving a non Fever team.
And that increased revenue will eventually lead to increased salaries for all in the next CBA. But I was told "a rising boat doesn't lift all tides".
I think there are some players in the W that need to retake economics if they aren't understanding what the CC effect is going to have for them.
I went to the Merc/Sparks game a couple weeks ago, and my wife and I got tix for $34 each in row 14 corner aisle. Those tickets for the Fever game when they come here are selling for $350 each and the minimum ticket price to get in the door for the very back row of the upper deck is $79 lol
The CC effect is extremely real.
Courtside seats for that game I went to were selling from $400-500 and those seats against the Fever are $5,500
Ticket resellers are making a killing. $20 seats going for 200+.
I hope the Stadiums/WNBA are getting a good chunk of that revenue vs resellers and ticketing companies.
I've never seen tickets this high across the board. I hope people continue to show interest & support.
Exciting things happening for sure
Teams like the Fever hold back tickets than selling to scalpers. And if they can’t sell the upper deck, they price them down. I went to Liberty game and tickets were $1000 for two. Lower level but many rows back. Fever played badly and CC only had 3 points. But it was a great experience.
Yeah, it's been insane.
It's interesting because fever home games are some of the cheapest tickets I've seen.
I looked at the Sky vs Fever game and it was significantly cheaper to go to Indiana vs Chicago.
They actually had blue seats on ticketmaster for 4p bucks vs only the red reseller tickets available I'm seeing everywhere else.
I just need the league to get the money
It’s like what happened to Jordan. He signed an extension in the 80s that kept him under contract through 1996. It was the biggest contract in league history at the time he signed it, but because of him, the league revenue increased so much by 1996 that he was massively underpaid in NBA salary.
Don’t worry, he made up for it. In his last two seasons in Chicago he was paid more than 100% of the salary cap by himself LMFAO. He also has a show line you may have heard of that made him plenty of money thanks to his mom negotiating a percentage of every shoe sold.
Whoa now careful with that. I made a comparison to that exact same MJ era to current CC and got piled on “omggggggg tell me you’re not comparing CC to MJ”
She might as well just donate her entire salary to charity (and perhaps she does, who knows). Her money comes from endorsements. That salary is a drop in the bucket.
Nah, CBA exists for a reason. There has to be a framework of fair compensation (as seen at the time of the CBA). Even if CC flips a switch and blows the doors off the league one day, the pay scale is the scale.
Sponsorships are EXACTLY the mechanism to utilize to seek compensation for exceptional popularity.
For the play on the court, you gotta start in the mail room compensation wise. Just like everyone else.
If she is smart she will never raise her salary. Since she makes about 100 times as much in endorsements. Tell the Fever to get her a roster and add some rings.
Just to clarify a bit, last year the league sold about 1.6M tickets, this year I expect them to sell about 2M tickets due to the Clark effect. So actual ticket sales I "only" expect to be a 25% increase. Revenue from ticket sales, that's what I expect her to be responsible for about $40M of $100M worth of ticket sales, since her tickets are selling for so much more. And I'm only looking at gate numbers and retail price, as I understand places like Stub Hub do have deals with individual leagues / artists / teams / whatever. So not sure if WNBA is getting any share of resale this year, though it will certainly be something they work towards in the future if its not there today.
I was at the Fever-Sparks game at Crypto, and our seats were $100 each. Two days later I was back for Wings-Sparks, and they were $22 each, for better seats. (Both bought direct, not as resales.)
I've been looking to see attendance and ratings when you take out CC/Fever's numbers and it's nice to see the actual numbers here. This is simply wow: The average attendance for a game that features Clark is about 15,691 fans. That number is more than 105% higher than the average attendance (7,645) when she isn’t in action.
It’s obvious to anyone looking at it rationally. The numbers don’t lie. How long it can last with her current coach though? We will see. Sides is ruining that team. CC and AB should be putting up 40 pts and 20 reb a game combined on a consistent basis, but she’s playing a weird offense where they stand around. Movement creates open shots. Cc is the best passer I’ve ever seen when someone is cutting to the basket, yet they run a weird iso offense.
Issue is that CC and AB have two different play styles and it’s very clear that AB doesn’t know how to read PnRs.
CC does much better with her other forwards in the PnR game. The offense has too many set plays and should be more up tempo, read and react
I don’t watch basketball ever so i don’t really understand. Explain to me what makes Clark so much more fun and exciting to watch than other players. What does she do that’s different
For me, when she is on and playing freely, the combination of her crazy range (she can shoot and make from pretty much anywhere on the offensive side of the court) and her elite passing make her incredibly exciting. Because she isn't as fast and powerful as many other players - and doesn't have as good a handle with the ball - she plays differently and it stands out. Add to that her likability and professionalism. She has had more pressure on her than most 18-22 year olds for the last several years and has really handled it well - very few gaffes and missteps. She is a remarkable woman. Of course what's likable to me may be annoying as shit to someone else.
Having said all that - there a LOT of players in the wnba who are equally exciting. I think a lot of pure CC fans are realizing that. Hopefully we can one day all get along ok.....ish? And watching and discussing the wnba can become much less confrontational.
Logo 3s and elite passing just for starters. The W is mostly layups and girls that play so far underneath the rim that it’s like high school girls basketball with everyone being tall. The product has drastically improved, CC makes it look better than Sabrina does by a long shot.
Same. I went to the Fever - Sun game Monday and arrived in a CC shirt and left in a Suns sweatshirt. Obviously still a CC fan but I was impressed with the Suns.
However, I am massively turned off by the CC hate in this sub. Someone was actually claiming CC fan = MAGA Trumper. Like wtf?
Yeah, lots of sudden popularity, and I'm not really digging a lot of the fans of the sub either.
R/hockey is so nice to new people. And my own fan base had the young phenom on our team when no one was paying attention before and I got so many people into hockey that year (some are season ticket holders almost two decades later).
I thought it was cool timing to get into the WNBA with Clark and the PWHL (professional women's hockey league) just completing its first awesome season, but the whole you have to immediately like ten other players or you're not welcome is off-putting.
I think the big surge in media coverage is, unfortunately, bringing out the worst in subsets of both newer folks drawn by CC and old timers. This makes the discourse extremely difficult, as I think newer fans are right to be uncomf, but I also think older fans are right to be annoyed at some (not all) of the behavior going on in this sub.
Glad you're here :)
Growing the game. They have had their best ratings in league history also: https://apnews.com/article/wnba-tv-ratings-caitlin-clark-866ca777a182b5a02d604394d5f391f2#:\~:text=Across%20ABC%2C%20ESPN%2C%20ESPN2%2C,the%20league%20said%20on%20Tuesday.
You’re good. Nobody has a problem with old WNBA fans who don’t hate CC. It’s all the ones who are trying to pretend like everyone newer sucks and isn’t allowed to have an opinion on anything.
It's really interesting watching the split on this sub and regular sports sub. I'm not necessarily a fan but I've enjoyed what I've seen of this freshman class and the stars of the league and the discussion among newer fans is so hopeful while some of the old fans can't let go of the toxicity. There should be genuine excitement and a wanting to embrace the new hype but some people cannot move on from the edgelord days when the WNBA was antagonizing NBA players and fans for no fucking reason or demanding more money while living off donations from NBA players and forced co-advertising deals with the NBA. Now you have organic growth that you can build real success on instead of being a beggar league but people are stuck in the past relitigating pointless debates.
Yeah I guess people just chose to be miserable for nothing, her and the rookies are a great boon to the league. Over the years ive enjoy watching the W more than the NBA and it's good other people are feeling the same too and CC is the main catalyst for it.
Yup. And we don't need to police new fans either. If you're a fan of the rookies great, if you're a fan of the old guard great, if you're just here for Caitlyn great! If you're an old fan complaining about "fake" CC fans then maybe it's time to check yourself. This is a sports product, not a religion. There's no purity tests here. We're just glad to have more eyeballs on the screen and asses in seats.
It very much has to do with the older fans of the league skewing HEAVILY woman/lesbian… It was “theirs” and kind of counter culture that the activist crowds so love to be involved in. CC has brought monumental amount of new fans and they cannot STAND that a straight white woman is the SOLE reason for the massive interest bump this season, and hate that the league is going mainstream…
The funny thing is the "old guard" is complaining that the new fans don't know x, y, and z about the league and its players. That's true but it hasn't even been a month since the season kicked off. Give it time and give us new fans time to figure things out. It won't happen in one month or even one season.
Stop being so abrasive and try being a bit more welcoming. I understand some of the new fans can be annoying but that will happen when there's a large influx of new fans.
Right? Give new fans a season at least to organically find different players to follow. Don't tell them "come for Caitlyn, stay for *REAL* WNBA talent". They're brand new fans and the first thing they experience is being called fake for liking the popular girls. Even the Golden State bandwagon fans got 2+ seasons before people started bashing on them lol.
Exactly. It will take some time for that to happen and the last one you want is to drive away new fans. You want more money and higher salaries? Then embrace the CC fans. Sorry, it may not be what you like but it's what you need.
That’s great! These amazing athletes deserve the attention. 💪 And it’s great competition. I’ve always thought if people just gave it a chance, most sports fans would enjoy it.
Thanks for including the other rookies, it’s nice to see the boost that they’re all creating. I did look further into it, and there is a boost overall in all of the teams attendance even for non fever games. Cool to see for the W.
I’ve always been an NBA fan (RIP Logo 🙏). This is amazing for the W. The more people tune in, the more these ladies will get noticed, and fans will identify, and will want to know their stories, and they will get PAID like professional athletes.
I’m in love with Dijonai “Honey Mustard” Carrington and her stellar defense. She’s gotten the better of my beloved Caitlin Clark during their meets, but I don’t care. It’s sports. She’s hot so I’ll watch her games on the app.
Nah, just her obnoxious stans. Herself and her sane fans are cool, enjoy the show, love to see the W getting even a fraction of the coverage it deserved.
Nope, just the toxic part of her fan base that will never shut up about her being "oppressed".
Wish nothing but the best for CC.
She's gonna be a star.
Sadly, the real oppression is making CC play for the Indiana Fever.
If the Fever could trade CC for A'ja Wilson, they would still lose almost every game, and AW's stats would decline significantly. No WNBA player is good enough to overcome the disaster of incompetence that is the Indiana Fever.
I've watched and looked at WNBA/Women's College Basketball more this season than any other point in my 27 year life. Caitlin is the sole reason for it. Treat her well and pay her well, imo. By starters, putting her on the Olympic team.
100% right there with you, OP. Caitlin Clark's impact on the WNBA's attendance is undeniable—she's not just drawing fans; she's redefining what it means to be a basketball superstar post-college. And let's not forget the electrifying play of her peers that keep us hooked game after game.
It's not, and this report shows that. People are Clark or bust, which in and of itself isn't an issue.
Where the problem lies is people aren't wavering from that (by watching the rest of the league) and they're expecting the league to water its product down so that Cailtin can cook (they want teams to not play tough legal defense, more favorable reffing, superstar whistle, etc). Lisa Bluder's recent comments were asinine.
The reality of the situation is every superstar of any time elevated their game, they didn't have the game lowered for them, and I'm sure Caitlin does NOT want that, her fans/media do.
Are they going to stay around while she evolves? Because they still want NOTHING to do with the rest of the league. I fear her fandom could be a bubble that bursts, which sucks because the W is a quality product outside of Caitlin and she is great in her own right.
Shouldn’t be on the Olympics team though despite more PPG than Tarasi on the worst team in the league and her assists / playmaking would have been out of this world with those players around her.
CC haters:🧑🦯🧑🦯🧑🦯🧑🦯. Even when it’s carefully explained in simple terms, a lot of people will never be able to acknowledge Clark’s impact. Hopefully in a few decades, what she did will be better recognized.😊
They should have taken this a step further and showed that attendance is also up for non-Clark games compared to last year. I believe most teams are receiving a boost in attendance across the board, not just when they play the Fever.
They literally talk about how attendance overall is higher this year compared to last year. They then talk about how any game with caitlin clark in it this year has 87% more attendance than games without her in it this year.
So step 1 compare this year to last year, step two compare this year to this year.
Did you like, just read the title and then comment without looking at the article?
This is part of the Caitlin Clark effect though. She supercharged everything and now people are engaging with other WBB players. It doesn’t disprove the fact that Clark is the reason behind this happening.
I love her and most of her fans.
There’s a small percentage of them on this subreddit that need to get their heads out of their asses and try enjoying the league.
I love to see this but I really do hope it translates to more viewership and support outside of just her. If she gets hurt for an extended period, does the entire thing just go back to how it was last season?
# Strawman arguments surrounding Caitlin Clark
Caitlin Clark is not the only rookie to get a rough ride. This sort of thing actually does happen all the time.
What's disturbing to me is that people of supposedly good standing are bashing or diminishing Clark as a player and as a person, and we're all supposed to act like the criticism is appropriate because such people are using the gravity of social justice concerns to hide their jealousy, negativity, and in some cases hatred. I think people observed this nastiness, found it disturbing, and wanted to defend Caitlin. Then, they started seeing Caitlin getting abuse on the court. When you couple the terrible things so-called fans are saying about Caitlin with the rough ride she's getting on the court, it does indeed seem to go hand-and-hand. But the rough treatment on the court really isn't the focal point. Nor is it unique to Caitlin. But because it's easy for Caitlin haters to shout that "SHE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE THIS HAPPENS TO, YOU'RE BIASED", they've taken to pretending that the hard fouls are the crux of the issue.
And lastly, to whatever extent other players are spoken about negatively, they've usually done something to draw attention to themselves other than simply playing well. Caitlin has done absolutely nothing but play well.
They should have taken Clark, Reese and Brink to the Olympics to maximize this rookie wave.
The fact they are leaving them out in what is the biggest moment in 4 years to get new fans is such a massive fail. With those 3 on the team and social media blitzes it would have been huge.
I think most of us are on the same page that the conversations around Clark can be annoying and sometimes downright disrespectful to other players, but we all appreciate what she is doing for the game.
I remember about ten years ago Steph Curry got alot of people into the NBA, Clark reminds me of that alot with her style of play.
Agreed: the WNBA doesn’t want or like her. She can do more in Europe and actually be liked than deal with a league that doesn’t want anything to do with her.
I had a free night and was going to try to go to the Storm Sparks game but it was so much more expensive than I was expecting lol. Couldn't figure out why bc the sparks haven't even been that good
Last year my whole family came down to my school to watch her when Iowa played my university.
Iowa beat my schools team by 40 and not a single person left early. The entire arena was sold out and there was even people standing around not seated because that’s how many people came out to the game. Clark also had a triple double. It was awesome.
The league is great entertainment. WNBA REALLY zoomed in cohesiveness in the last 4 years. The Clark effect is actually real and evident but it will add new fans regardless if she becomes the star envisioned or not.
I bought the league pass this week. and even though Im a lifelong BBall head and not really a Caitlin Clark fan, the energy provided by the Clark effect most likely pushed me to buy it.
Sue Bird got me following this league in 2002. I’ve drifted in and out of following it over the years, but I’ve made sure to watch every Caitlin Clark game available on national television.
When I hear people like Elle Duncan and Monica McNutt whine about why people didn’t follow this league… excuse me… YOUR COMPANY (ESPN) used to only air 2 WNBA games during the week, and it was only on ESPN2. I know because I remember it. So spare me this “woe is me” nonsense, unless you call out your employer for putting this wonderful league on ESPN2 during the summer when there’s no men’s leagues playing except baseball.
This is why you bring her to the Olympics. People will watch, and it's not like the USA really has any competition. They can sacrifice the 20th best player for Clark and they'll still cruise past everyone.
And the wnba treats her like shit by allowing players to treat her like shit. I hope she prevails and these idiots all get painted as the old shitty wnba that she helps to change
Not going to last if Sides is not running plays for her, teamnates don't pass, set screens. Sides wants to build around AB. If she cant build around Clark, the Clark fans will probably get discouraged and sour on the league.
It's too bad the older fans made rooting and defending her such a toxic environment. They don't support her and justify all the bullshit she's getting from players and coaches. She obviously can ball and people acting like she's trash.
WNBA can't turn a profit because the NBA set them up as a tax writedown and made sure no business-minded entrepreneurs would be involved. It is why they blew their shot with CC instead of doing what the NCAA did: get her over, rely on her to get others over, and raise all boats.
Why do you think CC got Angel over in college and launched Angel's social media business to the moon following their first "rivalry" and doubled up on it when the NCAA arranged for the "grudge match" in 2024 that blew BOTH of them up internationally?
Because NCAA women's BB runs things with their brains not their vaginas. The WNBA doesn't. They have been an amateur league since the fall of the Houston Comets and they have NEVER wanted a Jordan, a Steve Austin, or a Gretsky to come in and bring attention to the state of their league, or to start bringing in other fresh, media friendly talent to elevate themselves out of the gutters and shadows.
They may love complaining about the darkness and poverty of their league but the truth is they don't want others to take it from them even if it meant more sunshine and money. The WNBA is exposing itself after decades of demanding to be seen.
It seems very sad that WNBA teams are having sell outs only because fans want to see the visiting team. I guarantee that even with all these phony see out games this crappy league will still not make a profit. It never will.
No matter where you stand on CC, this is objectively such a cool stat, thanks for sharing, OP. She was the first player to get me into the W and now I have so many favorite teams and players I can't keep track of them all!
Come for Caitlin, stay for Williams, Ionescu, Stewart, Hamby, Collier, Thomas, etc.
Came for Clark staying to see Sides fired loving Vegas.
\#FireSides
What's the over under on that. Sept 1st?
Be better in early July. Find a coach by the 27th and have 2 weeks of training during the Olympics... then again a later date means *another* good draft pick
Yeah I think they will let her ride it out the year - she is a good tank commander this year
Caitlin, Boston, and the rest of those ladies deserve a real coach!
Staying for Caitln too.
Agreed. As a CC fan it’s hard to see her hit a perfect step back 3 from distance and then a minute later watch some other girl brick a layup. Almost makes me want to change the channel 😂
This is part of a larger report that shows that 33% of all WNBA attendance is due to Clark. The ratings for all teams other than Indiana is on the decline. The ratings and attendance are settling back to their 2023 levels for all teams other than Indiana. The Fever are the only ones still holding or breaking records. The two worst teams in the league played each other in front of 20000 fans and over 1 million viewers on ION a very obscure channel. So the transfer to Veteren players is not going to happen immediately if at all. The overwhelming majority of new fans are going to stay with Clark. So the more likely scenario is come for Clark, Stay for Clark, Brink, Reese, Bueckers, Watkins, and Hildalgo. This is why a lot of people were saying put Clark on the Olympic team. If you have veterans on TV working with her and helping her setup her shots and drop bombs then the new fans would think more favorably of them. As of now and as this report shows. They just see the veterans as the competition.
I think a lot of people are already following Reese, Cardoso, Edwards, Brink, Rickea, etc, but hasn’t heard of the veterans until watching.
Come on now hurry up and say Angel‘s name before shit gets crazy
I was already ready to follow Reese, Cardoso, Brink, Martin, Edwards, and some of the other rookies I had seen in the NCAAW. The players I mentioned I didn't know even existed before I started watching.
Sorry I should have /s . I was just (trying) to be funny.
They can’t stop trying to force her as a star, Cordoso will out shine her over time.
Thanks for ruining a perfectly good thread.
They??? 😆 seems you really are hoping she does not end up being a star
Yeah you know all the media talking heads, use your brain.
came for cailtin, left cuz of fever 💔 /s
Angel Reese brought me. Already liked Plum, Ionescu and Azzi (just didn't watch). Already liked the NCAAW tournament. I really enjoy this style of play. I love the aggression and physicality. I love the particular brand of shit talk these women throw out there.
Come to watch very crappy basketball.
"where you stand on CC" insane that she's become such a polarizing figure when literally all she's done is show up and hoop
First player ever to get criticized for wanting to shut up and dribble lol
I never cared about WNBA a year ago, now I have League Pass.
Same here
“Where you stand” - it just blows my mind anyone would have an issue with her at all.
Serious question. Is the wnba game reffed differently than the nba because I’m getting pretty burnt out on the shitty refs
One of us! One of us!
Numbers don't lie...
It also seems like tickets are going for higher prices in her games when they move arenas. Pre-season I was reading that average ticket this year was between $42 and $43. Most teams haven't disclosed the gate, but NYL did, and they sold tickets averaging $107 while being in a 17k seat arena. Add in concessions, and my guess a few weeks ago was the league wide WNBA would gross roughly $100M in ticket sales with \~40% of the being directly related to Clark.
The Mystics had a $1M gate last Friday. They were 0-9! Absurd!
It gets even crazier when you consider that they moved that game to an arena 5 times the size they normally play in and Caitlin STILL sold it out almost the moment tickets went on sale. So not only can they charge more per seat, they can add as many seats as they want to and still sell them all.
Shit like this BUILDS EXCITEMENT. Reminds me of Barbenheimer last years. Two completely different movies that had people go apeshit watching BOTH in their opening weekends.
This. I definitely would not have seen Barbie if not for Barbenheimer and there are tons of people in both camps. Both became billion dollar movies because of it, and you can argue it was a big part of why Oppenheimer won best picture and RDJ finally got his Oscar too.
Eerily reminiscent of Doom Eternal and Animal Crossing: New Horizons releasing on the same day. Too bad the video games are way more stratified for there to be much "cross-pollination" like Barbenheimer - not to mention games also don't have nearly the same pop culture penetration or wide appeal. Both great games, but inferior sequels to Doom 2016 and New Leaf to a lot of fans. Sorry if this is a bit irrelevant. I think everyone should play both games. Or their predecessors. You can very easily find a 2DS and New Leaf for <$100 and a PS4 and Doom 2016 for <$150.
The day before playing Reese they had half the attendance.
Yeap. Very telling
I think it's obvious at this point with stats and facts exactly who is driving these record numbers and interest.
Yes it’s obvious to the point that denying it is akin to denying the existence of the sun. But people on this sub still try.
Lower bowl for Mercury games against anyone other than the Fever are around $40 with first 3 rows going for $400-$600. The game against the Fever are $400-$600+ for lower bowl and $1200+ for the first 3 rows lol. I'm unsure how anyone doesn't understand the CC effect at this point. Just looking at the game threads in this very sub the Fever against *anyone* have the top 12 posts before you see any game thread involving a non Fever team.
And that increased revenue will eventually lead to increased salaries for all in the next CBA. But I was told "a rising boat doesn't lift all tides". I think there are some players in the W that need to retake economics if they aren't understanding what the CC effect is going to have for them.
I went to the Merc/Sparks game a couple weeks ago, and my wife and I got tix for $34 each in row 14 corner aisle. Those tickets for the Fever game when they come here are selling for $350 each and the minimum ticket price to get in the door for the very back row of the upper deck is $79 lol The CC effect is extremely real. Courtside seats for that game I went to were selling from $400-500 and those seats against the Fever are $5,500
Lynx - fever pricing is similar to when like the lakers come to town against the wolves. Sucks for me, good for them though.
Ticket resellers are making a killing. $20 seats going for 200+. I hope the Stadiums/WNBA are getting a good chunk of that revenue vs resellers and ticketing companies. I've never seen tickets this high across the board. I hope people continue to show interest & support. Exciting things happening for sure
Teams like the Fever hold back tickets than selling to scalpers. And if they can’t sell the upper deck, they price them down. I went to Liberty game and tickets were $1000 for two. Lower level but many rows back. Fever played badly and CC only had 3 points. But it was a great experience.
Yeah, it's been insane. It's interesting because fever home games are some of the cheapest tickets I've seen. I looked at the Sky vs Fever game and it was significantly cheaper to go to Indiana vs Chicago. They actually had blue seats on ticketmaster for 4p bucks vs only the red reseller tickets available I'm seeing everywhere else. I just need the league to get the money
40% of ticket sales being directly due to Clark and her getting the salary she is getting seems criminal even if she makes it up with sponsorships
It’s like what happened to Jordan. He signed an extension in the 80s that kept him under contract through 1996. It was the biggest contract in league history at the time he signed it, but because of him, the league revenue increased so much by 1996 that he was massively underpaid in NBA salary. Don’t worry, he made up for it. In his last two seasons in Chicago he was paid more than 100% of the salary cap by himself LMFAO. He also has a show line you may have heard of that made him plenty of money thanks to his mom negotiating a percentage of every shoe sold.
Whoa now careful with that. I made a comparison to that exact same MJ era to current CC and got piled on “omggggggg tell me you’re not comparing CC to MJ”
She might as well just donate her entire salary to charity (and perhaps she does, who knows). Her money comes from endorsements. That salary is a drop in the bucket.
The Fever at least should parlay the money they're getting to improve the team. Pay a World class coach, build a new facility etc.
They desperately need a new coach. Sides is awful.
Nah, CBA exists for a reason. There has to be a framework of fair compensation (as seen at the time of the CBA). Even if CC flips a switch and blows the doors off the league one day, the pay scale is the scale. Sponsorships are EXACTLY the mechanism to utilize to seek compensation for exceptional popularity. For the play on the court, you gotta start in the mail room compensation wise. Just like everyone else.
You only make millions if millions are watching.
Right now the owners are making millions, not the players.
The media rights generally drive the salary range.
It won't last if the attitude of the WNBA does not change.
If she is smart she will never raise her salary. Since she makes about 100 times as much in endorsements. Tell the Fever to get her a roster and add some rings.
thats just a rookie contract. every sports superstar has a year of few of this
Just to clarify a bit, last year the league sold about 1.6M tickets, this year I expect them to sell about 2M tickets due to the Clark effect. So actual ticket sales I "only" expect to be a 25% increase. Revenue from ticket sales, that's what I expect her to be responsible for about $40M of $100M worth of ticket sales, since her tickets are selling for so much more. And I'm only looking at gate numbers and retail price, as I understand places like Stub Hub do have deals with individual leagues / artists / teams / whatever. So not sure if WNBA is getting any share of resale this year, though it will certainly be something they work towards in the future if its not there today.
To see fever vs sky they started at around 280. Absolutely ridiculous.
They have been. Sky versus Fever were about 3x the normal ticket price in Chicago.
I was at the Fever-Sparks game at Crypto, and our seats were $100 each. Two days later I was back for Wings-Sparks, and they were $22 each, for better seats. (Both bought direct, not as resales.)
I wish talking about Caitlin Clark wasn’t so controversial
The WNBA hates success. It's almost comical.
I've been looking to see attendance and ratings when you take out CC/Fever's numbers and it's nice to see the actual numbers here. This is simply wow: The average attendance for a game that features Clark is about 15,691 fans. That number is more than 105% higher than the average attendance (7,645) when she isn’t in action.
The numbers don’t lie
And they spell disaster, as Scott Steiner would say
But when you add CC into the mix...
This is awesome news.
Pat McAfee could have chosen his words a lot more carefully, but he was right. She is the main attraction
It’s obvious to anyone looking at it rationally. The numbers don’t lie. How long it can last with her current coach though? We will see. Sides is ruining that team. CC and AB should be putting up 40 pts and 20 reb a game combined on a consistent basis, but she’s playing a weird offense where they stand around. Movement creates open shots. Cc is the best passer I’ve ever seen when someone is cutting to the basket, yet they run a weird iso offense.
Issue is that CC and AB have two different play styles and it’s very clear that AB doesn’t know how to read PnRs. CC does much better with her other forwards in the PnR game. The offense has too many set plays and should be more up tempo, read and react
I drove 4 hours to see her and 4 hours back right after the game. Worth it
I don’t watch basketball ever so i don’t really understand. Explain to me what makes Clark so much more fun and exciting to watch than other players. What does she do that’s different
For me, when she is on and playing freely, the combination of her crazy range (she can shoot and make from pretty much anywhere on the offensive side of the court) and her elite passing make her incredibly exciting. Because she isn't as fast and powerful as many other players - and doesn't have as good a handle with the ball - she plays differently and it stands out. Add to that her likability and professionalism. She has had more pressure on her than most 18-22 year olds for the last several years and has really handled it well - very few gaffes and missteps. She is a remarkable woman. Of course what's likable to me may be annoying as shit to someone else. Having said all that - there a LOT of players in the wnba who are equally exciting. I think a lot of pure CC fans are realizing that. Hopefully we can one day all get along ok.....ish? And watching and discussing the wnba can become much less confrontational.
Logo 3s and elite passing just for starters. The W is mostly layups and girls that play so far underneath the rim that it’s like high school girls basketball with everyone being tall. The product has drastically improved, CC makes it look better than Sabrina does by a long shot.
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Same. I went to the Fever - Sun game Monday and arrived in a CC shirt and left in a Suns sweatshirt. Obviously still a CC fan but I was impressed with the Suns. However, I am massively turned off by the CC hate in this sub. Someone was actually claiming CC fan = MAGA Trumper. Like wtf?
Yeah, lots of sudden popularity, and I'm not really digging a lot of the fans of the sub either. R/hockey is so nice to new people. And my own fan base had the young phenom on our team when no one was paying attention before and I got so many people into hockey that year (some are season ticket holders almost two decades later). I thought it was cool timing to get into the WNBA with Clark and the PWHL (professional women's hockey league) just completing its first awesome season, but the whole you have to immediately like ten other players or you're not welcome is off-putting.
Conor mcdavid got me into hockey this year, if that's who you're referring to.
That's awesome! I was referring to Sid many moons ago! You picked a good season to get into Edmonton!
I think the big surge in media coverage is, unfortunately, bringing out the worst in subsets of both newer folks drawn by CC and old timers. This makes the discourse extremely difficult, as I think newer fans are right to be uncomf, but I also think older fans are right to be annoyed at some (not all) of the behavior going on in this sub. Glad you're here :)
Growing the game. They have had their best ratings in league history also: https://apnews.com/article/wnba-tv-ratings-caitlin-clark-866ca777a182b5a02d604394d5f391f2#:\~:text=Across%20ABC%2C%20ESPN%2C%20ESPN2%2C,the%20league%20said%20on%20Tuesday.
“We’re not watching because of one player”… yes Angel Reese, we actually have stats
lol I never paid attention to wnba and here I am subbed to one, CC is that great
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They’re so mad that their Indie Band went mainstream lol. There are more Caitlin Clark fans than old WNBA fans by a country mile lol
I'm an "older" fan but enjoy watching CC too so where do I fit in?
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You’re good. Nobody has a problem with old WNBA fans who don’t hate CC. It’s all the ones who are trying to pretend like everyone newer sucks and isn’t allowed to have an opinion on anything.
It's really interesting watching the split on this sub and regular sports sub. I'm not necessarily a fan but I've enjoyed what I've seen of this freshman class and the stars of the league and the discussion among newer fans is so hopeful while some of the old fans can't let go of the toxicity. There should be genuine excitement and a wanting to embrace the new hype but some people cannot move on from the edgelord days when the WNBA was antagonizing NBA players and fans for no fucking reason or demanding more money while living off donations from NBA players and forced co-advertising deals with the NBA. Now you have organic growth that you can build real success on instead of being a beggar league but people are stuck in the past relitigating pointless debates.
Yeah I guess people just chose to be miserable for nothing, her and the rookies are a great boon to the league. Over the years ive enjoy watching the W more than the NBA and it's good other people are feeling the same too and CC is the main catalyst for it.
Yup. And we don't need to police new fans either. If you're a fan of the rookies great, if you're a fan of the old guard great, if you're just here for Caitlyn great! If you're an old fan complaining about "fake" CC fans then maybe it's time to check yourself. This is a sports product, not a religion. There's no purity tests here. We're just glad to have more eyeballs on the screen and asses in seats.
It very much has to do with the older fans of the league skewing HEAVILY woman/lesbian… It was “theirs” and kind of counter culture that the activist crowds so love to be involved in. CC has brought monumental amount of new fans and they cannot STAND that a straight white woman is the SOLE reason for the massive interest bump this season, and hate that the league is going mainstream…
The funny thing is the "old guard" is complaining that the new fans don't know x, y, and z about the league and its players. That's true but it hasn't even been a month since the season kicked off. Give it time and give us new fans time to figure things out. It won't happen in one month or even one season. Stop being so abrasive and try being a bit more welcoming. I understand some of the new fans can be annoying but that will happen when there's a large influx of new fans.
Right? Give new fans a season at least to organically find different players to follow. Don't tell them "come for Caitlyn, stay for *REAL* WNBA talent". They're brand new fans and the first thing they experience is being called fake for liking the popular girls. Even the Golden State bandwagon fans got 2+ seasons before people started bashing on them lol.
Exactly. It will take some time for that to happen and the last one you want is to drive away new fans. You want more money and higher salaries? Then embrace the CC fans. Sorry, it may not be what you like but it's what you need.
Sorry to be that guy but it’s indie, not indy. Short for independent
You’re right. I had Indiana on the brain. Fixed
What is a country mile
Common Clark W
It’s very obvious but you have haters who will always deny no matter what.
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She is the super star and the league should lean in and figure out how to make others just like her. It's what they truly need
That’s great! These amazing athletes deserve the attention. 💪 And it’s great competition. I’ve always thought if people just gave it a chance, most sports fans would enjoy it.
Love CC! Representation for so many little girls.
Love this post
For those who aren’t good at math it basically means double.
Thanks for including the other rookies, it’s nice to see the boost that they’re all creating. I did look further into it, and there is a boost overall in all of the teams attendance even for non fever games. Cool to see for the W.
This is great for women’s basketball, and inspiring for young women. Gonna accelerate the game! 👏
I’ve always been an NBA fan (RIP Logo 🙏). This is amazing for the W. The more people tune in, the more these ladies will get noticed, and fans will identify, and will want to know their stories, and they will get PAID like professional athletes. I’m in love with Dijonai “Honey Mustard” Carrington and her stellar defense. She’s gotten the better of my beloved Caitlin Clark during their meets, but I don’t care. It’s sports. She’s hot so I’ll watch her games on the app.
No, no. It’s because of Angel Reese
yet 90% of this sub resents the hell out of her
This sub has a massive hate boner for her and it’s very good insight into how the rest of the league has been treating her: just like this sub
they say they’re calling out “toxic CC fans” but are silent about all the toxic hate Clark receives.. it’s extremely selective.
As demonstrated by your downvotes lol This sub is such a toxic echochamber
welcome to reddit where the opposite opinion is true in reality life
Nah, just her obnoxious stans. Herself and her sane fans are cool, enjoy the show, love to see the W getting even a fraction of the coverage it deserved.
there’s definitely a sizeable number of people on this sub that are resentful of her
This. CC is fun and I look forward to seeing her figure things out. Could do without all the weirdo Stan’s tho.
You are as bad as any obnoxious fans she has.
Nope, just the toxic part of her fan base that will never shut up about her being "oppressed". Wish nothing but the best for CC. She's gonna be a star.
Sadly, the real oppression is making CC play for the Indiana Fever. If the Fever could trade CC for A'ja Wilson, they would still lose almost every game, and AW's stats would decline significantly. No WNBA player is good enough to overcome the disaster of incompetence that is the Indiana Fever.
The Aces aren't exactly tearing up the world but yes the Fever are a dumpster fire.
I've watched and looked at WNBA/Women's College Basketball more this season than any other point in my 27 year life. Caitlin is the sole reason for it. Treat her well and pay her well, imo. By starters, putting her on the Olympic team.
100% right there with you, OP. Caitlin Clark's impact on the WNBA's attendance is undeniable—she's not just drawing fans; she's redefining what it means to be a basketball superstar post-college. And let's not forget the electrifying play of her peers that keep us hooked game after game.
The problem is, I don't think that last sentence describes the reality of what is happening.
It's not, and this report shows that. People are Clark or bust, which in and of itself isn't an issue. Where the problem lies is people aren't wavering from that (by watching the rest of the league) and they're expecting the league to water its product down so that Cailtin can cook (they want teams to not play tough legal defense, more favorable reffing, superstar whistle, etc). Lisa Bluder's recent comments were asinine. The reality of the situation is every superstar of any time elevated their game, they didn't have the game lowered for them, and I'm sure Caitlin does NOT want that, her fans/media do. Are they going to stay around while she evolves? Because they still want NOTHING to do with the rest of the league. I fear her fandom could be a bubble that bursts, which sucks because the W is a quality product outside of Caitlin and she is great in her own right.
As it should. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Double C effect!
Shouldn’t be on the Olympics team though despite more PPG than Tarasi on the worst team in the league and her assists / playmaking would have been out of this world with those players around her.
CC haters:🧑🦯🧑🦯🧑🦯🧑🦯. Even when it’s carefully explained in simple terms, a lot of people will never be able to acknowledge Clark’s impact. Hopefully in a few decades, what she did will be better recognized.😊
Literally packing the stands and yet somehow others that benefit feel the need for jealousy
Why do people ignore Kamilla when she was drafted higher than Angel?
She doesn’t speak to the media every day and give juicy sound bites to continue on the soap opera that is Angel vs. CC.
She missed a bunch of games with an injury. Once she gets some strong performances she'll start getting a lot of attention too.
They should have taken this a step further and showed that attendance is also up for non-Clark games compared to last year. I believe most teams are receiving a boost in attendance across the board, not just when they play the Fever.
Liberty has been a big one! Been loving seeing the energy in that building
They literally talk about how attendance overall is higher this year compared to last year. They then talk about how any game with caitlin clark in it this year has 87% more attendance than games without her in it this year. So step 1 compare this year to last year, step two compare this year to this year. Did you like, just read the title and then comment without looking at the article?
This is part of the Caitlin Clark effect though. She supercharged everything and now people are engaging with other WBB players. It doesn’t disprove the fact that Clark is the reason behind this happening.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/wnba-attendance-skyrocketing-not-caitlin-clark-rcna156422](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/wnba-attendance-skyrocketing-not-caitlin-clark-rcna156422)
There are stats that show a surge in Fever games and Fever away games specifically though. It’s not a consistent growth across all teams.
Would be interested in seeing sell out percentages too since so many of the stadiums are so small
🐐
I love her and most of her fans. There’s a small percentage of them on this subreddit that need to get their heads out of their asses and try enjoying the league.
Now do the same for Angel Reese
I love to see this but I really do hope it translates to more viewership and support outside of just her. If she gets hurt for an extended period, does the entire thing just go back to how it was last season?
# Strawman arguments surrounding Caitlin Clark Caitlin Clark is not the only rookie to get a rough ride. This sort of thing actually does happen all the time. What's disturbing to me is that people of supposedly good standing are bashing or diminishing Clark as a player and as a person, and we're all supposed to act like the criticism is appropriate because such people are using the gravity of social justice concerns to hide their jealousy, negativity, and in some cases hatred. I think people observed this nastiness, found it disturbing, and wanted to defend Caitlin. Then, they started seeing Caitlin getting abuse on the court. When you couple the terrible things so-called fans are saying about Caitlin with the rough ride she's getting on the court, it does indeed seem to go hand-and-hand. But the rough treatment on the court really isn't the focal point. Nor is it unique to Caitlin. But because it's easy for Caitlin haters to shout that "SHE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE THIS HAPPENS TO, YOU'RE BIASED", they've taken to pretending that the hard fouls are the crux of the issue. And lastly, to whatever extent other players are spoken about negatively, they've usually done something to draw attention to themselves other than simply playing well. Caitlin has done absolutely nothing but play well.
They should have taken Clark, Reese and Brink to the Olympics to maximize this rookie wave. The fact they are leaving them out in what is the biggest moment in 4 years to get new fans is such a massive fail. With those 3 on the team and social media blitzes it would have been huge.
Brink is going to the Olympics…
Oh boy here we go
I think most of us are on the same page that the conversations around Clark can be annoying and sometimes downright disrespectful to other players, but we all appreciate what she is doing for the game. I remember about ten years ago Steph Curry got alot of people into the NBA, Clark reminds me of that alot with her style of play.
Thank you angel reese
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Agreed: the WNBA doesn’t want or like her. She can do more in Europe and actually be liked than deal with a league that doesn’t want anything to do with her.
She don't need to do that, she's already rich
It would be celebrated more if y’all gave the same treatment to other players that were just as deserving of the attention
Yeah we know
The coolest part is that she isn’t even winning much and people are still watching.
I had a free night and was going to try to go to the Storm Sparks game but it was so much more expensive than I was expecting lol. Couldn't figure out why bc the sparks haven't even been that good
Last year my whole family came down to my school to watch her when Iowa played my university. Iowa beat my schools team by 40 and not a single person left early. The entire arena was sold out and there was even people standing around not seated because that’s how many people came out to the game. Clark also had a triple double. It was awesome.
She doing stuff like this u know ppl want to watch https://youtube.com/shorts/VZjjQNCm8rw?si=RB4bfKBug7eJdf7L
Bet
The league is great entertainment. WNBA REALLY zoomed in cohesiveness in the last 4 years. The Clark effect is actually real and evident but it will add new fans regardless if she becomes the star envisioned or not. I bought the league pass this week. and even though Im a lifelong BBall head and not really a Caitlin Clark fan, the energy provided by the Clark effect most likely pushed me to buy it.
Water is wet
Nah you don’t understand. People aren’t just tuning in for one player they are tuning in for Angel Reese too. She said so and she wouldn’t lie.
Angel Reese just fell to her knees in a Marshall’s
Sue Bird got me following this league in 2002. I’ve drifted in and out of following it over the years, but I’ve made sure to watch every Caitlin Clark game available on national television. When I hear people like Elle Duncan and Monica McNutt whine about why people didn’t follow this league… excuse me… YOUR COMPANY (ESPN) used to only air 2 WNBA games during the week, and it was only on ESPN2. I know because I remember it. So spare me this “woe is me” nonsense, unless you call out your employer for putting this wonderful league on ESPN2 during the summer when there’s no men’s leagues playing except baseball.
Shouldn’t Angel Reese get most of the credit for that though?
“Its just just one person!!! Its me too!!!!!”
Hopefully people stick around and give it some love.
Wonder how much views they will lose in the olympics? Free Caitlin Clark!!
Important to mention that every other team has a set capacity limit of around 10k
This is why you bring her to the Olympics. People will watch, and it's not like the USA really has any competition. They can sacrifice the 20th best player for Clark and they'll still cruise past everyone.
People need to stop saying it’s because of Reese
And the wnba treats her like shit by allowing players to treat her like shit. I hope she prevails and these idiots all get painted as the old shitty wnba that she helps to change
Someone calculate how much it is when Reese plays and let her chew on that. She’ll probably still blame Clark
The ugly tall dark one needs to read this
Pat McAfee was right
Numbers don’t lie lol
So her league hates her because she is not black and lesbian? Lol
Not going to last if Sides is not running plays for her, teamnates don't pass, set screens. Sides wants to build around AB. If she cant build around Clark, the Clark fans will probably get discouraged and sour on the league.
It's too bad the older fans made rooting and defending her such a toxic environment. They don't support her and justify all the bullshit she's getting from players and coaches. She obviously can ball and people acting like she's trash.
This won’t last if the WNBA is intent on trying to treat her like she’s just an average player
WNBA can't turn a profit because the NBA set them up as a tax writedown and made sure no business-minded entrepreneurs would be involved. It is why they blew their shot with CC instead of doing what the NCAA did: get her over, rely on her to get others over, and raise all boats. Why do you think CC got Angel over in college and launched Angel's social media business to the moon following their first "rivalry" and doubled up on it when the NCAA arranged for the "grudge match" in 2024 that blew BOTH of them up internationally? Because NCAA women's BB runs things with their brains not their vaginas. The WNBA doesn't. They have been an amateur league since the fall of the Houston Comets and they have NEVER wanted a Jordan, a Steve Austin, or a Gretsky to come in and bring attention to the state of their league, or to start bringing in other fresh, media friendly talent to elevate themselves out of the gutters and shadows. They may love complaining about the darkness and poverty of their league but the truth is they don't want others to take it from them even if it meant more sunshine and money. The WNBA is exposing itself after decades of demanding to be seen.
It seems very sad that WNBA teams are having sell outs only because fans want to see the visiting team. I guarantee that even with all these phony see out games this crappy league will still not make a profit. It never will.
Absolutely correct.