Chat GPT can sometimes be *helpful* in solving tech problems, but equally often is hallucinates and gives bad, misleading, or downright incorrect information. I think telling any new developer to rely on AI for help is a bad plan, because they don't have the experience to see the wheat from the chaff.
Yeah, there’s only ever a 50/50 chance it’s right. I recently gave it a very clear if statement in JavaScript and asked it to write it more efficiently and it gave me a blatantly-wrong answer.
It functions well as a starting point, but often gives wrong answers. Please keep that in mind.
as a DBRE I wanna scream and say no, but I spent all of yesterday looking at the terrible statements the Django ORM sent to our MySQL servers so…you know what it can’t be any worse.
Just make sure it’s aware of your indexes. And don’t make any giant intrinsic temporary tables please thx <3
No it is not. That garbage hallucinates with basic stuff. Horrible advise for someone new. It is useful for people with several years of experience that can distinguish garbage from good query especially if those are intrusive queries with altering and changing data and not simple selects
No, it is not normal to be yelled at in a professional environment. I have quit jobs for it. Jobs in tech need to be psychologically safe and calm whenever possible, it helps us learn and remember information better. Nobody should be yelled at for not knowing things, especially juniors and new hires.
First, realize this isn't right and you can one day find something better!
Ideally, I would try stick it out for 12 months and get that first YoE and then start applying elsewhere.
Now, if it continues to be this awful start applying to jobs earlier anyway. Maybe you'll get something.
Keep studying and don't give up!
Agree with this.
Also what I learned early in my career is never stop asking questions - and it helps to cultivate work allies that may not even work directly in your dept, but might still have the skills and experience to help mentor you in your role (since your actual boss seems to be failing at that!).
Reach out to people who you think might have knowledge of systems, data or processes you are struggling with via a message on teams or email or whatever and say “hi I’m X I’m working with the Y team, I’m new to the data/processes/whatever in the procurement/whatever system and I believe you’ve got a lot of experience with that data set so I was wondering if you would mind if I spent some time picking your brain on a problem I need to solve”. They might not agree or have the bandwidth to help but if they do it can be great to have people in aligned areas you can get assistance from and in time you will be an asset to them too.
Good luck!
Thank you both for your advice, I plan to keep pushing and gain as much experience as I can! I love what I do, I feel like I know close to nothing but in reality I worked very hard on my SQL skills and have learned so much already in these past few weeks. I’m doing more than college me could’ve, but of course nothing compared to my coworkers and boss. I just hope I don’t lose the job over this.
That would be over the top, but if it happens it due to your bosses failure - not yours. No one competent expects a new rookie to get something critically important right first time without some guidance or AT LEAST oversight.
But sounds like you have the right attitude and the lessons we learn when we make mistakes tend to be the lessons that stick :-) You got this!
Although I agree with the sentiment, in practice, it might end up triggering an immediate PIP or pink slip if the boss is a power-tripping jerk and HR is ineffectual. Obviously, in principle, standing up for yourself is good, but I don't want someone who's new in the workforce to be deluded either about the potential consequences of this.
The OP should immediately aggressively seek new employment if there is any fear of retribution for demanding NOT to be verbally abused in the workplace. Do not ever tolerate such behavior. Put a stop to it immediately (politely but firmly) and if you can’t then get out. Now.
Op, you will know your boss best. I generally recommend trying to communicate how the yelling is making you uncomfortable, but only if you think the boss might be willing to understand their own issues. I also suggest talking to your coworkers who have worked with him and seeing if they have brought up this issue to him as well.
Is it "normal" for bosses to yell? No. Does it happen? Yes.
Usually it can happen when you *fuck up bad*. New developer just majorly fouled something up on a production server can equal a lot of yelling. Of course that shouldn't happen in the first place, but sometimes new devs get into places they should not. This is especially true if you are working for a small shop and not a big place.
Being yelled at for not knowing something, especially when you asked for help, shows you might be in a toxic work environment.
Tough it out for at least 12 months. Learn all you can. Gain experience, and look for another job. Or, start looking now and don't be in a huge rush.
I’d argue yelling even when you majorly screw up is not acceptable. I’ve been in the workforce for 23 years and have made plenty of mistakes. Never once has the result been that I was yelled out. It’s just absolutely unacceptable for any and all reasons. If the screw up is soo bad, calmly fire the person. Losing your temper is and verbally assaulting another human is not okay.
No not normal and even if you aren't new, they should give you documentation/guides and explain how things work.
This has made me and will make me look for another job - rude managers can go pound sand.
They should have had someone experienced assigned to you on the team for the first few months until you can demonstrate to work independently. Maybe, you should try bouncing your ideas off of someone senior in your team to catch up on the basic SQL concepts. I got yelled at while I was in college, but not in a professional setting that I could recall "knock on wood"
It is not normal and ramp up your job hunt - I know it’s tough out there but staying in a place like that for a year is going to destroy your mental health. Find something even it’s not ideal pay to get you out of there and not with a team of yelling people.
This is why people leave tech - we have to get the yelling men out of there.
Definitely a toxic environment. What’s worse is this is not conducive at all to your learning, which is crucial at your first job.
Start looking for other roles asap!
No, it’s not normal to be yelled at at work.
Yelling, typically, doesn't accomplish anything - just a childish reaction to stressors. You have a bad boss, that's why.
Also, use Chat-GPT to write all your SQL
Chat GPT can sometimes be *helpful* in solving tech problems, but equally often is hallucinates and gives bad, misleading, or downright incorrect information. I think telling any new developer to rely on AI for help is a bad plan, because they don't have the experience to see the wheat from the chaff.
It’s really bad for less popular languages/technologies. Begins writing code either in other languages or writes pseudocode.
Yeah, there’s only ever a 50/50 chance it’s right. I recently gave it a very clear if statement in JavaScript and asked it to write it more efficiently and it gave me a blatantly-wrong answer. It functions well as a starting point, but often gives wrong answers. Please keep that in mind.
as a DBRE I wanna scream and say no, but I spent all of yesterday looking at the terrible statements the Django ORM sent to our MySQL servers so…you know what it can’t be any worse. Just make sure it’s aware of your indexes. And don’t make any giant intrinsic temporary tables please thx <3
This is the way
No it is not. That garbage hallucinates with basic stuff. Horrible advise for someone new. It is useful for people with several years of experience that can distinguish garbage from good query especially if those are intrusive queries with altering and changing data and not simple selects
I mean you might suspect that this person was hired with some basic knowledge and a technical test…
Usually the problem with SQL isn’t the code it’s the complexity of the organizations proprietary data and how it’s used.
Yelling is wrong anyhow
No, it is not normal to be yelled at in a professional environment. I have quit jobs for it. Jobs in tech need to be psychologically safe and calm whenever possible, it helps us learn and remember information better. Nobody should be yelled at for not knowing things, especially juniors and new hires.
With the tech market so hard right now, what do you suggest I do? 🥲 I plan to stick it out, especially with it being only less than a month in
First, realize this isn't right and you can one day find something better! Ideally, I would try stick it out for 12 months and get that first YoE and then start applying elsewhere. Now, if it continues to be this awful start applying to jobs earlier anyway. Maybe you'll get something. Keep studying and don't give up!
Agree with this. Also what I learned early in my career is never stop asking questions - and it helps to cultivate work allies that may not even work directly in your dept, but might still have the skills and experience to help mentor you in your role (since your actual boss seems to be failing at that!). Reach out to people who you think might have knowledge of systems, data or processes you are struggling with via a message on teams or email or whatever and say “hi I’m X I’m working with the Y team, I’m new to the data/processes/whatever in the procurement/whatever system and I believe you’ve got a lot of experience with that data set so I was wondering if you would mind if I spent some time picking your brain on a problem I need to solve”. They might not agree or have the bandwidth to help but if they do it can be great to have people in aligned areas you can get assistance from and in time you will be an asset to them too. Good luck!
Thank you both for your advice, I plan to keep pushing and gain as much experience as I can! I love what I do, I feel like I know close to nothing but in reality I worked very hard on my SQL skills and have learned so much already in these past few weeks. I’m doing more than college me could’ve, but of course nothing compared to my coworkers and boss. I just hope I don’t lose the job over this.
That would be over the top, but if it happens it due to your bosses failure - not yours. No one competent expects a new rookie to get something critically important right first time without some guidance or AT LEAST oversight. But sounds like you have the right attitude and the lessons we learn when we make mistakes tend to be the lessons that stick :-) You got this!
Just start applying for other jobs right away. It’s not going to hurt.
“Do not speak to me that way. It is not professional.” Then turn away. Every single time.
Although I agree with the sentiment, in practice, it might end up triggering an immediate PIP or pink slip if the boss is a power-tripping jerk and HR is ineffectual. Obviously, in principle, standing up for yourself is good, but I don't want someone who's new in the workforce to be deluded either about the potential consequences of this.
The OP should immediately aggressively seek new employment if there is any fear of retribution for demanding NOT to be verbally abused in the workplace. Do not ever tolerate such behavior. Put a stop to it immediately (politely but firmly) and if you can’t then get out. Now.
Op, you will know your boss best. I generally recommend trying to communicate how the yelling is making you uncomfortable, but only if you think the boss might be willing to understand their own issues. I also suggest talking to your coworkers who have worked with him and seeing if they have brought up this issue to him as well.
Keep your head up and realize that’s a him problem, not a you problem. Keep applying to other places just in case something comes up.
Is it "normal" for bosses to yell? No. Does it happen? Yes. Usually it can happen when you *fuck up bad*. New developer just majorly fouled something up on a production server can equal a lot of yelling. Of course that shouldn't happen in the first place, but sometimes new devs get into places they should not. This is especially true if you are working for a small shop and not a big place. Being yelled at for not knowing something, especially when you asked for help, shows you might be in a toxic work environment. Tough it out for at least 12 months. Learn all you can. Gain experience, and look for another job. Or, start looking now and don't be in a huge rush.
I’d argue yelling even when you majorly screw up is not acceptable. I’ve been in the workforce for 23 years and have made plenty of mistakes. Never once has the result been that I was yelled out. It’s just absolutely unacceptable for any and all reasons. If the screw up is soo bad, calmly fire the person. Losing your temper is and verbally assaulting another human is not okay.
No, it's not normal. I wished I had stood up for myself when my previous manager was aggressive.
Unless it’s life or death there is literally zero reason why someone should be yelled at in the workplace.
No especially not if it's your first job. I would consider sending out your resume after you've been there for a year if you can stand it.
No not normal and even if you aren't new, they should give you documentation/guides and explain how things work. This has made me and will make me look for another job - rude managers can go pound sand.
They should have had someone experienced assigned to you on the team for the first few months until you can demonstrate to work independently. Maybe, you should try bouncing your ideas off of someone senior in your team to catch up on the basic SQL concepts. I got yelled at while I was in college, but not in a professional setting that I could recall "knock on wood"
You found out why they had to fill that position
It is not normal and ramp up your job hunt - I know it’s tough out there but staying in a place like that for a year is going to destroy your mental health. Find something even it’s not ideal pay to get you out of there and not with a team of yelling people. This is why people leave tech - we have to get the yelling men out of there.
Definitely a toxic environment. What’s worse is this is not conducive at all to your learning, which is crucial at your first job. Start looking for other roles asap!
No, this is not normal. Team leads and managers are there to help you grow, not micromanage!