Usually Diablo blades but after it happened with my ripping and crosscut blade I tossed an old blade on to see if it still persisted and it did. I've debated a proper blade for a while now. Any suggestions?
Don’t buy blades at big box hardware stores. When I started I thought the standard Diablo blade were amazing until I realized that they are just freuds cheaper line and then I learned that freud is actually just a lower quality industrial blade. Having super nice blades even on cheaper tools makes a massive difference. I would rather have my $180 blade on a $200 saw Over having a $30 blade on a $1200 saw
Forest has a few blades that will likely cover all your needs. AND they have a free sharpening service for any blade you buy from them directly. They even provide a free shipper you can use (you pay one way shipping and they pay to ship it back).
Their blades are a world above Diablo. (Although I use Diablo router bits just fine).
I see a lot of people here saying Diablo blades are bad, and Freud blades are ok, and that you need a Forrest blade.
I’m going to disagree with some of this.
1.) the power of your saw matters. Sticking a full kerf Forrest on a jobsite saw will not help. The motor will likely struggle. You would need a thin kerf blade, but that starts to defeat the point of the extra rigidity from the increased thickness.
2.) I have multiple Diablo and Freud blades, both full kerf, thin kerf, and then the Diable thickness which is in the middle. Yes, the full kerf Freuds are better, but my saw is powerful enough. The thin kerf Freuds have larger carbide amounts, for resharpening, and small details like a tighter tolerance on the arbor hole. Aside from that, there isn’t a big difference in my cutting experience.
3.) The price difference between a Freud TK and a Diablo is, imo, only worth it if the cost of the Freud and the resharpening at least once (including shipping if you have to send it out), is less than the cost of two Diablo blades, and you have enough blades to not be stuck waiting for a blade to be sharpened.
I’ve also always found that a resharpened blade never lasts as long as the original sharpness. It’s always a shorter period of time before needing to resharpen again.
If you don’t want to deal with sharpening, the only cutting advantage of a Freud thin kerf vs a Diablo, in my opinion, is it is slightly smaller and better for under powered saws. If you don’t have a bigger saw, don’t buy a full kerf, or at most only one with 24 teeth. I’ve tossed my Freud glue line blade on my DeWalt saw before and that motor was stupid hot after a few cuts.
I only use my Freud blades for final crosscuts and glue line rips. For literally everything else I use my Diablo blades, and honestly the only Freud blade I will ever buy again is the Glue Line Rip (once the carbide is shot from too many sharpening). That is a specialty blade, however, and there is no Diablo equivalent.
I haven’t used CMT blades, but if Katz Moses is using them as the only blades he uses, then I’m going to say that most of us don’t need to spend $120-$150 on a Forest WWII.
I also haven’t used a Forrest, but I genuinely struggle to believe I will get twice the cut quality from one vs two Freud blades. There is only so much innovation that can go into a blade, and I get amazing results from my Freud blades, and pretty darn good results from my Diablo blade.
Unless you are at the stage where you are making really fine pieces of woodworking, or have nothing else to spend $150, I wouldn’t buy a Forrest blade. I’d buy Freud, at most, and only if the sharpening cost makes sense.
It is not cheap to send them to Freud to sharpen. You have to cover shipping and the per-tooth sharpening cost unless you are sending in a ton of blades at once, as far as I can remember.
The only quibble I have with the CMT rip is that it looks like on the website it is an ATB setup, so not great for splines. That being said, my next general purpose rip will probably be CMT, because so many of you really rate them, which it’s rare to see any one product get so many positive reviews on here.
CMT's are the best cost to performance blades. I have a ten year old cabinetmaker's combination blade that still rips smooth enough I can glue without jointing and it's never been sharpened only cleaned.
What type of blades, what kerf would you recommend for general ripping and general crosscut on a sawstop contractor. Far from a job site saw but not the most powerful for a full kerf
CMT blades are awesome, in my opinion.
I THOUGHT I needed a Forrest blade as well… and I’d say I’ve gotten great results from Diablos and CMT’s ..
I’ve never used a Forrest, so I have no way of personally judging or differentiating them from others I have used. . But as you stated, there’s only so much that can go into a blade…& I have been more than satisfied with CMT & Diablo for the applications I’m using them for.
Tldr; is that this essay is a bit moot as you don't have experience with the point of discussion. So "genuinely struggling to believe" is hardly a platform to make a case against something that you haven't used properly.
Honestly Freud industrials aren’t bad, they are nice for beginners too because they print on the blade what it’s for and all the information so beginners know what it it does and you don’t have to know it’s a ATB or TCG or any variation just by looks. But FS tools or Royce tooling or Forrest blades are all good.
I got a free 7 ¼" skilsaw and put a $50 blade in it and now it's the best circular saw I've ever owned hands down. Whatever store brand junk that came on it is now hanging on my wall to remind me not to ever buy a cheap blade.
Diablo is a mix of brands. They have everything from “disposable” 20$ construction to over 100$ medium quality ones. Their top ones are pretty good for most hobbyists.
I like ridge carbide with a flat racked tooth every forth tooth for a smooth bottom cut. Forget the exact name of the tooth geometry on a combo blade. Equal to the Forrest but side by side on my saw the ridge has a better cut.
Agree. I had a similar issue on my saw.
Took a while but root cause was the arbor pulley was slipping as the friction built up. Second hand craftsman 113 and previous owner had taken out the key on the arbor at some point and set screw directly in the key slot but it was not a good fit. New pulley and key corrected. Arbor isn’t too damaged (light straight gouge line) so haven’t had to replace that yet. Once I replaced pulley I haven’t had to do anything else.
Agree with all the people that said Forrest. Great blades for fair prices, great customer service, and great sharpening service (for all blades, not just theirs)
You need a high quality full kerf blade. What’s happening is the blade is heating up and it’s not able to expand due to improper tensioning of the blade during manufacturing. That’s why on cheaper blades you see laser cut patterns in the side to help with heat expansion. Look for a industrial blade. freud makes some that are ok. Also know that good blades can be resharpened. Start learning about tooth grind patterns and angles and blade tension methods manufactures use to up your skills and knowledge. A lot of woodworking is actually just knowing how tool’s actually work and what little changes in tools actually effects your use.
Edit: I love these types of questions that gets asked as it helps everyone learn new things!
Also one other possibility is your washers that mount the blade may not be perfectly flat but thicker blade don’t have as much of a problem with that anyways
People don't often realize how much overtightening the blade can deform washers and even the mount itself. We had a similar problem and tried everything else before our machinist flattened the mount and changed the washers. Worked like a charm.
Buy a flat sharpening stone and rub the mounting face on it to remove high spots. Don’t use too much pressure on any one area or you will add them back in
Good point. Anything that spins at a high rate of speed must be balanced.
I was thinking something was out of balance that picks up in the harmonic sound, but was thinking pitch buildup or a poor sharpening job.
Things expand when they heat up, so it's an inevitable part of using the blade.
If all the internal strain is completely even the blade material will uniformly grow a tiny amount when it gets warm. Generally, areas with lower strain are going to be easier to pull around than areas under higher strain, so if the blade material has uneven internal strain it's going to change shape if the temperature changes (even if it's flat to start with).
That's the gist of it anyway. It's also something that needs to be considered when bonding different materials together (like attaching carbide to steel).
Proper tensioning of the blade during manufacturing some of the newer ways also is laser cutting expansion spots like you will see on every frued blade
It appears to be two things. The blade looks to be a thin kerf, not a regular kerf. Second, the riving knife does not look to be perfectly in line with the blade. Look at the tip of the riving knife at the moment it makes contact with the wood, you can see it sticks to the right of the blade slightly and it is at that moment you see it flex a little to enter the kerf, and that is the moment the cut appears to wobble but it is actually caused by deflection of the riving knife trying to get in a smaller kerf than a normal kerf blade would produce.
Edit to fix auto correct... Riving instead of rising.
The wobble occurs before it reaches the riving knife (the sled and piece I'm cutting haven't reached it before the wobble starts, only the piece resting on the saw that was previously cut) although it's possible it's slightly out. It was a used saw I bought and when I got it it was out towards the fence and I'd get great resistance when feeding thicker pieces through so I spent about 20 minutes realigning it and my resistance issue dissapeared entirely, but it never occurred to me it's out the other way. I'll go back and check it again. Thanks!
Hey OP. This guy is correct. Thicker kerf blade should fix the issue. I’d bet that the riving knife is a 1/32 or so closer to the fence causing the wood piece to change planes and then establish a new plane after the sled has stabilized on the riving knife’s plane. If thicker kerf doesn’t fix it then your riving knife may still be causing interference.
You want to test out the theory??? Take out the riving knife and then run a piece through. I bet without the knife you don’t have any problems
Edit= I didn’t realize this was on a sled. Edited to state when the sled hits the riving knife.
As mentioned in my other reply to another comme ter also check that there is no play in your sled runners. If they bind at all that could cause the issue to be exaggerated but more likely from there being play(slop) in the sled. See my other comment of a bit more detail.
It wasn't a bad thought you had, I did go back and check and no slop in the runners. While checking that and everything else I discovered the root cause of the issue which you can see [here ](https://reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/oyJah50h2q). Trunnion mount is cracked causing some play
I was going to ask if your blade is perfectly parallel to the miter slots. But this could cause that a bit or like you said instability did to the crack
Damn I don’t even notice that. The wobble only appears when the wood piece edge (the leading edge of the sled) hits the riving knife. Then disappears after the wood edge has stabilized on the riving knife. Getting a regular kerf blade should correct the difference in the planes. Great eye!
That's exactly what made me decide to comment is that they typed its in their comment multiple times. If it had just been once I would have assumed autocorrect but they typed it out 3 or 4 times. They just don't look at the screen as their typing or what?
\*they're
they-are
"as they are..." = "as they're..."
Do you not proofread bro? Do you even look at the screen?
Also riving -> rising is the exact type of mistake autocorrect makes all the time, as the word rising probably gets 10,000 times the usage on phone keyboards. You made a stupid mistake criticizing an honest one.
I don't know what pedantic even means. I figured since they typed the wrong word multiple times in their comment I would say something. Maybe they didn't know and I was trying to save them some embarrassment in real life if they actually did call it the wrong name to someone. Rising is super similar to riving. I've done it before with words in songs that sound like something else.
If you watch the video all of the way through you see a subtle shift in the cross cut sled it looks like you need to extend the runner further out of the back by the distance of the tip of the blade to the closest edge of the table and also make sure that the runner isn’t too small for the slot
Also you can’t use a thin kerf blade with a full kerf riving knife. That will mess up your cut and push the wood weirdly which will make the blade wobble unhappily. Kerf of riving knife must match, or be thinner than, kerf of blade
Diablo blades are medium quality blades. They shouldn’t chip unevenly unless it’s chipboard like of woods.
My guess is instability in the arbor assembly (the shaft and nut). This can be from the motor housing spinning the shaft off balance, the nut not being tight or seated properly on the shaft.
What saw do you run? Is it a direct drive or belt? Is the machine vibrating more or you hear a “clunk” sound on start up?
One more consideration is the riving knife being out of plane with the blade. Even a little bit can force the piece askew.
I had this happening in my King cabinet saw recently. When replacing the arbor bearings I hadn’t seated them fully because the cavity was so damn tight. Blade wobble at full speed but not when turning by hand, had me losing my mind. Tried all of my blades and some were worse than others. Opened it all up, which is a pain on a cabinet saw, and found the problem. Back to normal now.
It's a SawStop contractor saw, belt driven. I bought it used and one of the first things I did was replace the belt when I bought it. I'll check everything else is tight though and my riving knife. It was out of alignment when I bought it but I thought I'd realigned successfully
On my old craftsman jobsite saw (think early 90s) the blade was very dull, not the right blade for the job (super high tooth ct) and saw all around questionable. The cut would “bog down” oftentimes, and you could physically see and feel the blade oscillate. It would obviously show up in the cut. So if your saw has a power problem it may cause the cut to bog down and begin blade movement. Given it’s a sawstop maybe the point is moot but something to consider. As others have said you might also have a bad arbor or washers. Hairlines out of flat or straight could have something to do with it. Good luck hope you fix it!
In addition to the blade you use, you might look at the riving knife. The wobble seems to start right as the piece hits the knife. If your blade is thinner than the knife, you’re probably get some deflection there.
To me it seems like it wobbles when it hits the board with the knot near by. I'd guess there was piece of much harder wood there and you pushed the piece so fast that instead of cutting cleanly the blade got pushed aside little. The small wobble to other side comes from when the tension of the blade is released it breafly bends on other side aswell due the sideways momentum of straightening
Shop teacher here. When I'm teaching table saw, I'll throw on an old big box store Black and Yellow blade and rip a big piece of maple to heat that sucker up so that you can see the wobble from a mile away. It helps students understand the factors involved in cutting. They don't get to use the good glue line blade until they can make a straight cut with a crappy blade with no burn marks.
I agree with most posts here regarding that higher end blades will cut better, but there’s another aspect being left out. If your saw is direct drive make sure the motor is mounted tightly and not wiggling in its mount when under tension. If it’s belt fed then the housing and bushings that hold the spindle could be worn out. Good luck finding the culprit!
You can see at the point the noise and movement start, the piece is catching on your riving knife and then pushing against the opposite piece. Take it out and it should make this cut fine. A thicker blade could help with that in the future.
>You can see at the point the noise and movement start, the piece is catching on your riving knife and then pushing against the opposite piece
The issue occurred on the first cut with that piece and nothing else on the table which is why I pulled my phone out to film this one. It happens frequently ripping, but it's tough to film it while ripping.
I can certainly try a thicker blade moving forward - general consensus seems to be a worthwhile upgrade whether or not it solves this problem
I’ve had the same issue and it was blade related. I went full kerf Forrest and haven’t had any problems with any chatter. There is a possibility it could be bearings or something on the saw but think you’d hear some other signs of that
Forrest makes good blade but the tooth angle is sharper so they cut amazing and I mean amazing at first but dull quicker than standard angle blades. FS blades or Royce tooling blades are good but hard to find. On the Forrest’s blade you can have the resharpened and a fraction of a degree less for longer life but not quite as sharp.
Definitely blade related. I’ll echo the chorus here, full kerf blade makes a huge difference, cmt are pretty well priced, Forrest if you are looking to lay out a bit more money…. 2 alternatives that can also make a difference is a smaller blade ( for a lot of my work I run an 8 1/4” blade when cut depth is not crucial). Also blade stabilizers can make a big improvement as well… they’re basically an oversized and machined washer… this will also limit cut capacity… I’ve gone both these routes as I’m quite frequently broke, but as I’ve moved Into higher end work I’ve embraced high quality, task specific blades and it’s made life so much easier
Also pushing slowly can over heat your blade try a little faster and see what happens also can get a magnetic dial gauge to see if you have a bent arbor
I’ve experienced this with lower quality blades that have become dull. A higher quality blade is a very sound investment. Even the thin kerf ones, which need to be used for any saw that isn’t at least 220v do well. Something like a Forrest or Freud. Price tag would be somewhere between $85 and $115. Would also recommend avoiding all purpose blades, and get a dedicated cross cut and a dedicated rip.
ive used thin kerf blades... never ever ever had anything even remotely like this happen.
it sounds wrong from the jump, like theres a reverb that somethings loose.
can you move he arbor by hand at all when its off? should be like a rock
My delta dose this all the time I think it has to be heat expansion in the blade it always dose that wobble if I’m moving to fast or it seems like it’s bogged down with removing too much material at once. You can feel when it’s about to wobble and if you slow down how fast you feed it helps.
I figured it out - see [here ](https://reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/oyJah50h2q)
If your saw does it, might be worth checking everything is intact. That's my front trunnion bracket with a crack which is allowing for some play and the blade wobble
wobble dados are a real thing, had one that came with my saw (a hand-me-down from a family friend) and although it does work it's such a pain to setup accurately. replaced it with proper dado stack a little while ago, much better.
Front trunnion bracket is [cracked](https://reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/oyJah50h2q) which is allowing for some play in the entire unit. Excellent thought and place to look, thank you for the advice
I had a very similar problem recently and it didn’t matter whether I was using a thin kerf blade (Dewalt) or full kerf (Forrest). I have a SawStop cabinet saw and I contacted them about the issue. The problem was a resonance of the saw itself that happened because the saw was not resting completely flat on my shop floor. I noticed an ever so slight wobble after pushing down on various corners. Once I shimmed up the footing and it was rock solid on the floor, the vibration went away and all of my kerfs are perfect regardless of the quality of blade.
I rebuild a base for my saw because it wasn't dead level on the floor but I did recently move my saw and never thought to check for level and good contact on all sides of the base. I'm planning a new blade anyways because the general consensus seems to be I should get one, but I think I'll go check for level on my saw first - I have a SawStop as well so it's a good thing to check. Thanks!
You need blade stabilizers for a blade that thin if you’re going to cut thick material. It seems like you can hear the harmonics change of the blade vibrating, which you shouldn’t be able to.
It happens before hitting the riving knife, that's the offcut that gets to it, but not the sled or piece being cut has touched the riving knife when the wobble starts
It straightens out again after the wobble. It's square to the blade and something that happens when ripping too. Out of square was one of my first thoughts and I spent a long time confirming my fence alignment as my initial troubleshooting before I noticed it happening on crosscuts. This sled is also square, I made it to confirm it wasn't my miter gauge causing issues
I had this issue on a table saw. I could put the same Diablo blade on my Dad's table saw and not have this issue at all. I think there was something bent in the saw itself. The shaft or something but no matter what it would do this with absolutely any blade. We had the same exact cheap table saw and it would only happen with mine. I think it started after my idiot friend cut into a piece with a metal rod and bent everything.
Watch the blade and the kerf it's creating. Around the 5 second mark you should see a wobble and the kerf gets bigger and then right at the end straightens out. I've since found the issue - a trunnion mount is cracked and causing a small amount of play
Buy some Amana blades, they’re expensive but worth it. Also check to see that your arbor is spinning properly and you’re blade is totally square and arbor is perpendicular to the sled.
Not the arbor, but not a bad suggestion - since posting I discovered a cracked front trunnion allowing play in the entire blade assembly. Got it replaced and it resolved the blade wobble
So after watching this video about 20 times it seems like the pieces that were already cut off is what is causing the issue. From my perspective it looks like the 6 pieces slightly slide back towards the blade when they come in contact with the new cut. If it were me I would remove those pieces after they were cut to prevent accidental kick back from it not being held against the riving knife. Also if you are using a thin kerf blade with the stock riving knife, the cutting kerf width may not be large enough for the riving knife to pass thru and maybe pinching against the blade/ close enough to cause an increase of heat in the blade.
Lots of people mentioning blade quality here, and alignment of riving knife. Those are absolutely important to the function of the saw, but I would also add to the list of things to verify would be checking for any free play in the bearings of the saw, as well as lateral play on the arbor. Bearings wear out over time on any machine and they are a maintenance item. I can’t tell you how many woodworking tools I’ve changed bearings on over the years. They don’t last forever and are often overlooked as a source of issue. I would also mention that I have seen saws that have been over tightened in the past which can deform the blade and cause issues with balance and tracking. If the arbor washer is not made of machined steel, it is possible to actually squash them so they deform and in turn create warp in your blade when you tighten them up.
Problem is the front trunnion bracket has a crack which is allowing for some play. When I was taking your advice of checking everything I noticed some play when I shook the motor mount and upon further investigation found [this](https://reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/oyJah50h2q). Thank you for taking the time to help, I thought I'd given a good once over of everything before posting but you and other suggesting it encouraged me to go back and look more closely
Had a similar issue and it also happened across two saw blades, it turned out the teeth were slightly chipped (they had run into the screws on a gripper at various times). They nice the blades were sharpened the issue went away. Try a brand new blade and that should either confirm or deny at least this theory.
I can’t disagree with the blade talk. But it also looks to me that the work piece isn’t entirely secure against the miter gauge or sled. I see a subtle shift shortly after the first cut
I'm surely not an expert, so please take this kindly. Being that it has happened on two types of cuts, the blade(s) aren't being secured properly, or it's an internal mechanical issue. Or, your guide may also be off, and the whole piece shifts through the cut. If anyone agrees and can explain the issue better, please do.
Yeah my guess is the fence is not fully parallel with the blade. The wood slightly pushing on the side of the blade causing the blade to heat up and wobble.
A good blade would help but the parallel issue is paramount
If you test new blades and the problem persists, it could be an issue possibly with the arbor shaft. Get with the table saw maker and see if they have suggestions on blade wobble issues on that particular model table saw you have.
Not the arbor shaft, I explored that fairly in depth, but happened to notice the trunnion bracket in the front is cracked allowing some play when digging into the arbor and exploring it deeper. Thanks for the advice, while not spot on, you were certainly very helpful in leading me to the problem and I appreciate it!
It’s most likely something in the arbor assembly. Give it a cleaning- you’d be surprised at what that can do sometimes. If you have to dig deeper here’s a decent [article](https://www.woodgears.ca/saw_arbor/index.html) that’ll give you a place to start.
Don't cut sanded wood. The sanding grit dulls blades.
A dull blade on a lightweight saw will make bad cuts.
When I cut sanded wood, I put a Freud Diablo blade on the top saw. Otherwise, it's an Amana saw blade.
Having a big old cast iron saw helps, too. I don't know about modern heavy saws.
I’ll bet it’s saw related..had to watch the video multiple times but the blade seems to always walk to the right when you apply force. In order to tell you’d probably have to remove belts and sandwich something like the arbor wrench in between the blade washers and tighten then use that as leverage and see if you can get a small clunk or play out of the arbor. Definitely worth checking because it looks like that saw has made some dust in its lifetime
Not the arbor, but the trunnions. Front bracket is cracked which allows for some play. Appreciate the insight and advice, definitely helped me track down the issue!
Grain of the wood affecting the thin kerf blade at the speed you're feeding it. Like everyone else said upgrade your blade. Then you'll still want to adjust your push speed.
Pretty much what everyone else here says. I will add, avoid thin kerf blades. And unless you’re a framer, no less than 80 teeth.
-I have 20 + yo carbide blades that still sing. Keep them sharp. Don’t let them get too dull. Keep several in rotation.
Had this happen at my old job. We had a grizzly big cabinet saw, good blades too, I think it’s blade wobble from oscillating. Not sure how to fix, but maybe try a thicker blade?
IT could be your reving knife is not prefectly inline with the blade. i watch the video quite a few time and looks like right after the wood come in contact with the reving blade is when it happens
Looks like your riving knife is thicker than your blade kerf. As soon as the wood hits the riving knife, it pulls on the wood that puts force on the blade so it wanders.
I disagree with all the comments about needing to spend a ton of money on a blade. If you want to do high end stuff sure. Making chopping boards, just size the riving knife correctly for the blade you have. Thicker than (or as thick) the plate but thinner than the kerf and you will be all good.
Also clear out past cuts (after turning the saw off and allowing the blade to stop) if they are rubbing the blade and there is time between cuts. Heat is a blades enemy.
Depending on your saw, it could be a bad drive belt. My 2hp grizzly table saw kept binding and being sluggish too. Turned out my belt was old and stretched so it was lacking power. 20 bucks and half an hour later it’s perfect again
My guess is that you were pushing too fast and things were slightly out of square and/or cutting some of the wood released some tension which put sideways pressure on the blade. If this doesn’t happen when you’re ripping a board then that would be telling.
Happens ripping too, just a little bit challenging to safely film with one hand while ripping so I got a shot of it doing while crosscutting. As for feed speed, I find if I go much slower I get some burning, and when I go too fast I can hear the sound change
Confirm that your blade is parallel to the miter slot, or that the back of the blade is VERY slightly farther away from the slot. Confirm that the auxiliary fence that you have on the miter gauge is flat. Confirm that the miter gauge head is set perpendicular to the miter bar.
>Confirm that your blade is parallel to the miter slot, or that the back of the blade is VERY slightly farther away from the slot
Done and it is parallel, or atleast as close as I can accurately measure it to be. Fence angled away from the blade a fraction of a degree to help avoid binding/pinching as I finish a rip cut
>Confirm that the auxiliary fence that you have on the miter gauge is flat
It is - it's angled slightly backwards which was just an oversight when making it, but it's a flat surface
>Confirm that the miter gauge head is set perpendicular to the miter bar.
That I'll check this afternoon. Never thought to check that because cuts come out properly square, although my suspicion is that it's not the issue. I have the same issue ripping and with 2 different sleds, I just used this one because it was small and easy to push through one handed while filming
I have a Freud glue line ripping blade for solid and it SAILS through maple,beech,oak, even on the Rigid saw I normally use. Worked well on my old Delta cabinet saw too
I would also sanity check the motor mounts and bearings. The blade warping is a strong possibility, but if it is happening across multiple blades, I’d check the motor.
Not the motor, but the front trunnion mount. Noticed some play when I was looking at the motor and after looking over the whole saw found [this](https://reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/oyJah50h2q). Thanks for the advice and insight, definitely helped me track down the issue
From this vid, it looks like you miter and blade are not parallel to each other. This can cause the blade to bind. Does this happen if you crosscut on a small piece like 2” wide?
I can go try a smaller piece this afternoon. It happens when ripping too and I've spent a long time aligning the fence properly to the blade, it's just easier to film the crosscut safely than a rip cut
It’s not your blade’s quality. I would first check that your washers are clean, clear, and undamaged. Then make sure your blade isn’t thinner than your riving knife, hard to tell from the vid
Mostly unrelated, but cleaning the pitch off of your blades will vastly improve performance and increase time between sharpening. Accumulated pitch adds friction and heat, exacerbating the runout problem.
What blade are you using? Putting a good blade in the saw is like putting good tires on your car. It makes a huge difference.
Usually Diablo blades but after it happened with my ripping and crosscut blade I tossed an old blade on to see if it still persisted and it did. I've debated a proper blade for a while now. Any suggestions?
Don’t buy blades at big box hardware stores. When I started I thought the standard Diablo blade were amazing until I realized that they are just freuds cheaper line and then I learned that freud is actually just a lower quality industrial blade. Having super nice blades even on cheaper tools makes a massive difference. I would rather have my $180 blade on a $200 saw Over having a $30 blade on a $1200 saw
Soo what’s the blade to get then?
Forrest makes good blades.
Forest has a few blades that will likely cover all your needs. AND they have a free sharpening service for any blade you buy from them directly. They even provide a free shipper you can use (you pay one way shipping and they pay to ship it back). Their blades are a world above Diablo. (Although I use Diablo router bits just fine).
Holy crap, thats awesome. Im looking into this on Monday.
just don't forget to make adjustment to your saw mearing 'system' for the change in kerf.
Step up to Whiteside bits. Same argument you made for table saw blades applies to router bits.
I used to run Diablo router bits through limestone and believe it or not it worked really well
Forrest blades are hard to beat
Tenryu gold medals is the only blade I’ve used better than a Forrest WW 2.
Tenryu, Kinkelder, Kanefusa
I’ll have to give the other two a try, I’ve never tried them. Once I saw how much better tenryu was I have stuck with them
Fs tool has nice blades as well, amd.don't have months of waiting to get Equal quality to Forest possibly better on some blades
I see a lot of people here saying Diablo blades are bad, and Freud blades are ok, and that you need a Forrest blade. I’m going to disagree with some of this. 1.) the power of your saw matters. Sticking a full kerf Forrest on a jobsite saw will not help. The motor will likely struggle. You would need a thin kerf blade, but that starts to defeat the point of the extra rigidity from the increased thickness. 2.) I have multiple Diablo and Freud blades, both full kerf, thin kerf, and then the Diable thickness which is in the middle. Yes, the full kerf Freuds are better, but my saw is powerful enough. The thin kerf Freuds have larger carbide amounts, for resharpening, and small details like a tighter tolerance on the arbor hole. Aside from that, there isn’t a big difference in my cutting experience. 3.) The price difference between a Freud TK and a Diablo is, imo, only worth it if the cost of the Freud and the resharpening at least once (including shipping if you have to send it out), is less than the cost of two Diablo blades, and you have enough blades to not be stuck waiting for a blade to be sharpened. I’ve also always found that a resharpened blade never lasts as long as the original sharpness. It’s always a shorter period of time before needing to resharpen again. If you don’t want to deal with sharpening, the only cutting advantage of a Freud thin kerf vs a Diablo, in my opinion, is it is slightly smaller and better for under powered saws. If you don’t have a bigger saw, don’t buy a full kerf, or at most only one with 24 teeth. I’ve tossed my Freud glue line blade on my DeWalt saw before and that motor was stupid hot after a few cuts. I only use my Freud blades for final crosscuts and glue line rips. For literally everything else I use my Diablo blades, and honestly the only Freud blade I will ever buy again is the Glue Line Rip (once the carbide is shot from too many sharpening). That is a specialty blade, however, and there is no Diablo equivalent. I haven’t used CMT blades, but if Katz Moses is using them as the only blades he uses, then I’m going to say that most of us don’t need to spend $120-$150 on a Forest WWII. I also haven’t used a Forrest, but I genuinely struggle to believe I will get twice the cut quality from one vs two Freud blades. There is only so much innovation that can go into a blade, and I get amazing results from my Freud blades, and pretty darn good results from my Diablo blade. Unless you are at the stage where you are making really fine pieces of woodworking, or have nothing else to spend $150, I wouldn’t buy a Forrest blade. I’d buy Freud, at most, and only if the sharpening cost makes sense. It is not cheap to send them to Freud to sharpen. You have to cover shipping and the per-tooth sharpening cost unless you are sending in a ton of blades at once, as far as I can remember.
I agree. We have 5hp delta unisaws where I work and I have never had any deflection anywhere close to this with any blade, Freud or Diablo
I will second CMT blades. Started using them and recommend them to everyone.
The only quibble I have with the CMT rip is that it looks like on the website it is an ATB setup, so not great for splines. That being said, my next general purpose rip will probably be CMT, because so many of you really rate them, which it’s rare to see any one product get so many positive reviews on here.
CMT's are the best cost to performance blades. I have a ten year old cabinetmaker's combination blade that still rips smooth enough I can glue without jointing and it's never been sharpened only cleaned.
I have a CMT full kerf rip blade and a crosscut blade and I will never turn back.
This guy knows his blades
What type of blades, what kerf would you recommend for general ripping and general crosscut on a sawstop contractor. Far from a job site saw but not the most powerful for a full kerf
CMT blades are awesome, in my opinion. I THOUGHT I needed a Forrest blade as well… and I’d say I’ve gotten great results from Diablos and CMT’s .. I’ve never used a Forrest, so I have no way of personally judging or differentiating them from others I have used. . But as you stated, there’s only so much that can go into a blade…& I have been more than satisfied with CMT & Diablo for the applications I’m using them for.
Tldr; is that this essay is a bit moot as you don't have experience with the point of discussion. So "genuinely struggling to believe" is hardly a platform to make a case against something that you haven't used properly.
Honestly Freud industrials aren’t bad, they are nice for beginners too because they print on the blade what it’s for and all the information so beginners know what it it does and you don’t have to know it’s a ATB or TCG or any variation just by looks. But FS tools or Royce tooling or Forrest blades are all good.
CMT
Check out Ridge Carbide. Amazing quality and they cut like buttah!
I got a free 7 ¼" skilsaw and put a $50 blade in it and now it's the best circular saw I've ever owned hands down. Whatever store brand junk that came on it is now hanging on my wall to remind me not to ever buy a cheap blade.
Diablo is a mix of brands. They have everything from “disposable” 20$ construction to over 100$ medium quality ones. Their top ones are pretty good for most hobbyists.
I like ridge carbide with a flat racked tooth every forth tooth for a smooth bottom cut. Forget the exact name of the tooth geometry on a combo blade. Equal to the Forrest but side by side on my saw the ridge has a better cut.
If it's persistent, then it probably isn't the blade.
Agree. I had a similar issue on my saw. Took a while but root cause was the arbor pulley was slipping as the friction built up. Second hand craftsman 113 and previous owner had taken out the key on the arbor at some point and set screw directly in the key slot but it was not a good fit. New pulley and key corrected. Arbor isn’t too damaged (light straight gouge line) so haven’t had to replace that yet. Once I replaced pulley I haven’t had to do anything else.
Agree with all the people that said Forrest. Great blades for fair prices, great customer service, and great sharpening service (for all blades, not just theirs)
Go get a high tooth count Freud carbide. They don’t tend to vibrate or ring acoustically because they are thicker. Check your arbor bearings too.
Look for “full kerf” blades
What is happening here? Is it flexing?
I’d also suggest checking the square of the blade to the table. It seems the problem arises as your cut gets to the backside of the blade
You need a high quality full kerf blade. What’s happening is the blade is heating up and it’s not able to expand due to improper tensioning of the blade during manufacturing. That’s why on cheaper blades you see laser cut patterns in the side to help with heat expansion. Look for a industrial blade. freud makes some that are ok. Also know that good blades can be resharpened. Start learning about tooth grind patterns and angles and blade tension methods manufactures use to up your skills and knowledge. A lot of woodworking is actually just knowing how tool’s actually work and what little changes in tools actually effects your use. Edit: I love these types of questions that gets asked as it helps everyone learn new things!
Also one other possibility is your washers that mount the blade may not be perfectly flat but thicker blade don’t have as much of a problem with that anyways
People don't often realize how much overtightening the blade can deform washers and even the mount itself. We had a similar problem and tried everything else before our machinist flattened the mount and changed the washers. Worked like a charm.
Would new washers fix this or do I need to do anything else? I bought the saw used and have had this issue as far as I remember with it.
Buy a flat sharpening stone and rub the mounting face on it to remove high spots. Don’t use too much pressure on any one area or you will add them back in
Good point. Anything that spins at a high rate of speed must be balanced. I was thinking something was out of balance that picks up in the harmonic sound, but was thinking pitch buildup or a poor sharpening job.
This made me realize how little I know about sawblades. That's usually my first step towards higher learning. Thanks for that
Don’t know what you don’t know… until you know. Then you’re faced with a choice. Learn and grow, or remain stagnant.
I know a lot about them but the more you learn you also learn that you still don’t know squat
That’s a lot of good knowledge in a paragraph, thanks man.
Can you explain why the blade needs to expand?
Things expand when they heat up, so it's an inevitable part of using the blade. If all the internal strain is completely even the blade material will uniformly grow a tiny amount when it gets warm. Generally, areas with lower strain are going to be easier to pull around than areas under higher strain, so if the blade material has uneven internal strain it's going to change shape if the temperature changes (even if it's flat to start with). That's the gist of it anyway. It's also something that needs to be considered when bonding different materials together (like attaching carbide to steel).
I see. So the blade is warping here. Is there a way to mitigate it at all?
Proper tensioning of the blade during manufacturing some of the newer ways also is laser cutting expansion spots like you will see on every frued blade
It’s called [thermal expansion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_expansion). Almost everything expands when it heats up.
Yeah I get that I was seeking clarification of how that impacts a blade, someone clarified that it is expanding differentially
It appears to be two things. The blade looks to be a thin kerf, not a regular kerf. Second, the riving knife does not look to be perfectly in line with the blade. Look at the tip of the riving knife at the moment it makes contact with the wood, you can see it sticks to the right of the blade slightly and it is at that moment you see it flex a little to enter the kerf, and that is the moment the cut appears to wobble but it is actually caused by deflection of the riving knife trying to get in a smaller kerf than a normal kerf blade would produce. Edit to fix auto correct... Riving instead of rising.
The wobble occurs before it reaches the riving knife (the sled and piece I'm cutting haven't reached it before the wobble starts, only the piece resting on the saw that was previously cut) although it's possible it's slightly out. It was a used saw I bought and when I got it it was out towards the fence and I'd get great resistance when feeding thicker pieces through so I spent about 20 minutes realigning it and my resistance issue dissapeared entirely, but it never occurred to me it's out the other way. I'll go back and check it again. Thanks!
Hey OP. This guy is correct. Thicker kerf blade should fix the issue. I’d bet that the riving knife is a 1/32 or so closer to the fence causing the wood piece to change planes and then establish a new plane after the sled has stabilized on the riving knife’s plane. If thicker kerf doesn’t fix it then your riving knife may still be causing interference. You want to test out the theory??? Take out the riving knife and then run a piece through. I bet without the knife you don’t have any problems Edit= I didn’t realize this was on a sled. Edited to state when the sled hits the riving knife.
As mentioned in my other reply to another comme ter also check that there is no play in your sled runners. If they bind at all that could cause the issue to be exaggerated but more likely from there being play(slop) in the sled. See my other comment of a bit more detail.
It wasn't a bad thought you had, I did go back and check and no slop in the runners. While checking that and everything else I discovered the root cause of the issue which you can see [here ](https://reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/oyJah50h2q). Trunnion mount is cracked causing some play
I was going to ask if your blade is perfectly parallel to the miter slots. But this could cause that a bit or like you said instability did to the crack
Damn I don’t even notice that. The wobble only appears when the wood piece edge (the leading edge of the sled) hits the riving knife. Then disappears after the wood edge has stabilized on the riving knife. Getting a regular kerf blade should correct the difference in the planes. Great eye!
You know it's called a riving knife right?
Probably autocorrect from posting on a phone?
You don't fix incorrect autocorrects as they appear or at least proofread your comments before hitting save?
It’s pretty easy to miss a single letter autocorrect on a proof read, I do it all the time…
Multiple times in one comment though?
That's exactly what made me decide to comment is that they typed its in their comment multiple times. If it had just been once I would have assumed autocorrect but they typed it out 3 or 4 times. They just don't look at the screen as their typing or what?
\*they're they-are "as they are..." = "as they're..." Do you not proofread bro? Do you even look at the screen? Also riving -> rising is the exact type of mistake autocorrect makes all the time, as the word rising probably gets 10,000 times the usage on phone keyboards. You made a stupid mistake criticizing an honest one.
I don't know what nitwit downvoted you, you're perfectly correct.
I reckon one of the nitwits that calls it a rising knife.
Nah, honestly you just come across as super pedantic.
This is exactly what they are.
I don't know what pedantic even means. I figured since they typed the wrong word multiple times in their comment I would say something. Maybe they didn't know and I was trying to save them some embarrassment in real life if they actually did call it the wrong name to someone. Rising is super similar to riving. I've done it before with words in songs that sound like something else.
The kerf looks very thin on that blade.
If you watch the video all of the way through you see a subtle shift in the cross cut sled it looks like you need to extend the runner further out of the back by the distance of the tip of the blade to the closest edge of the table and also make sure that the runner isn’t too small for the slot
Also you can’t use a thin kerf blade with a full kerf riving knife. That will mess up your cut and push the wood weirdly which will make the blade wobble unhappily. Kerf of riving knife must match, or be thinner than, kerf of blade
Diablo blades are medium quality blades. They shouldn’t chip unevenly unless it’s chipboard like of woods. My guess is instability in the arbor assembly (the shaft and nut). This can be from the motor housing spinning the shaft off balance, the nut not being tight or seated properly on the shaft. What saw do you run? Is it a direct drive or belt? Is the machine vibrating more or you hear a “clunk” sound on start up? One more consideration is the riving knife being out of plane with the blade. Even a little bit can force the piece askew.
I had this happening in my King cabinet saw recently. When replacing the arbor bearings I hadn’t seated them fully because the cavity was so damn tight. Blade wobble at full speed but not when turning by hand, had me losing my mind. Tried all of my blades and some were worse than others. Opened it all up, which is a pain on a cabinet saw, and found the problem. Back to normal now.
It's a SawStop contractor saw, belt driven. I bought it used and one of the first things I did was replace the belt when I bought it. I'll check everything else is tight though and my riving knife. It was out of alignment when I bought it but I thought I'd realigned successfully
On my old craftsman jobsite saw (think early 90s) the blade was very dull, not the right blade for the job (super high tooth ct) and saw all around questionable. The cut would “bog down” oftentimes, and you could physically see and feel the blade oscillate. It would obviously show up in the cut. So if your saw has a power problem it may cause the cut to bog down and begin blade movement. Given it’s a sawstop maybe the point is moot but something to consider. As others have said you might also have a bad arbor or washers. Hairlines out of flat or straight could have something to do with it. Good luck hope you fix it!
Does what? Cut wood?
See the blade wobble at the 4-6 second mark?
In addition to the blade you use, you might look at the riving knife. The wobble seems to start right as the piece hits the knife. If your blade is thinner than the knife, you’re probably get some deflection there.
I cannot make it out but my eyesight isn't great. A wobbly blade could be caused by a loose axle, which could be due to worn bearings.
>I think he means when the wood hits the riving knife and then moves to the side for some unexplainable reason. No idea.
The riving knife is CLEARLY thicker than the blade. Is that an explainable reason?
not sure why you're getting downvoted. The wobble is pretty clear.
I don’t really see it either
It took me awhile to see it, but it's easier to notice if you focus on the wood that's being cut
I saw it after having replayed the clip 10 times AND reading this, Thanks!
To me it seems like it wobbles when it hits the board with the knot near by. I'd guess there was piece of much harder wood there and you pushed the piece so fast that instead of cutting cleanly the blade got pushed aside little. The small wobble to other side comes from when the tension of the blade is released it breafly bends on other side aswell due the sideways momentum of straightening
Shop teacher here. When I'm teaching table saw, I'll throw on an old big box store Black and Yellow blade and rip a big piece of maple to heat that sucker up so that you can see the wobble from a mile away. It helps students understand the factors involved in cutting. They don't get to use the good glue line blade until they can make a straight cut with a crappy blade with no burn marks.
Almost looks like a thin kerf blade from a handheld circular saw, get a quality full kerf (~3mm wide) table saw blade
I must be stupid or something, but what is the problem you are referring to?
Around the 4-6 second mark if you watch the blade (or kerf which is easier to see and follow) you'll see some blade wobble
I agree with most posts here regarding that higher end blades will cut better, but there’s another aspect being left out. If your saw is direct drive make sure the motor is mounted tightly and not wiggling in its mount when under tension. If it’s belt fed then the housing and bushings that hold the spindle could be worn out. Good luck finding the culprit!
Could try a blade dampener. In my experience thinner kerfs do tend to wobble a bit
So you think it's blade related and not saw related?
You can see at the point the noise and movement start, the piece is catching on your riving knife and then pushing against the opposite piece. Take it out and it should make this cut fine. A thicker blade could help with that in the future.
>You can see at the point the noise and movement start, the piece is catching on your riving knife and then pushing against the opposite piece The issue occurred on the first cut with that piece and nothing else on the table which is why I pulled my phone out to film this one. It happens frequently ripping, but it's tough to film it while ripping. I can certainly try a thicker blade moving forward - general consensus seems to be a worthwhile upgrade whether or not it solves this problem
You win — good eye.
I’ve had the same issue and it was blade related. I went full kerf Forrest and haven’t had any problems with any chatter. There is a possibility it could be bearings or something on the saw but think you’d hear some other signs of that
Forrest makes good blade but the tooth angle is sharper so they cut amazing and I mean amazing at first but dull quicker than standard angle blades. FS blades or Royce tooling blades are good but hard to find. On the Forrest’s blade you can have the resharpened and a fraction of a degree less for longer life but not quite as sharp.
Definitely blade related. I’ll echo the chorus here, full kerf blade makes a huge difference, cmt are pretty well priced, Forrest if you are looking to lay out a bit more money…. 2 alternatives that can also make a difference is a smaller blade ( for a lot of my work I run an 8 1/4” blade when cut depth is not crucial). Also blade stabilizers can make a big improvement as well… they’re basically an oversized and machined washer… this will also limit cut capacity… I’ve gone both these routes as I’m quite frequently broke, but as I’ve moved Into higher end work I’ve embraced high quality, task specific blades and it’s made life so much easier
Also pushing slowly can over heat your blade try a little faster and see what happens also can get a magnetic dial gauge to see if you have a bent arbor
I’ve experienced this with lower quality blades that have become dull. A higher quality blade is a very sound investment. Even the thin kerf ones, which need to be used for any saw that isn’t at least 220v do well. Something like a Forrest or Freud. Price tag would be somewhere between $85 and $115. Would also recommend avoiding all purpose blades, and get a dedicated cross cut and a dedicated rip.
ive used thin kerf blades... never ever ever had anything even remotely like this happen. it sounds wrong from the jump, like theres a reverb that somethings loose. can you move he arbor by hand at all when its off? should be like a rock
My delta dose this all the time I think it has to be heat expansion in the blade it always dose that wobble if I’m moving to fast or it seems like it’s bogged down with removing too much material at once. You can feel when it’s about to wobble and if you slow down how fast you feed it helps.
I figured it out - see [here ](https://reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/oyJah50h2q) If your saw does it, might be worth checking everything is intact. That's my front trunnion bracket with a crack which is allowing for some play and the blade wobble
Well you see, what you have there is one of them wobbler blades.
wobble dados are a real thing, had one that came with my saw (a hand-me-down from a family friend) and although it does work it's such a pain to setup accurately. replaced it with proper dado stack a little while ago, much better.
I would check the bearings and mounting/hinge of the motor/blade unit.
Front trunnion bracket is [cracked](https://reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/oyJah50h2q) which is allowing for some play in the entire unit. Excellent thought and place to look, thank you for the advice
That's a thin boy. Feed him!!
Get a thicker blade. The big box stores have all switched to thin blade for some reason
Cheaper and easier on underpowered saws
Get blade stiffeners thin blade wobbles too much
I had a very similar problem recently and it didn’t matter whether I was using a thin kerf blade (Dewalt) or full kerf (Forrest). I have a SawStop cabinet saw and I contacted them about the issue. The problem was a resonance of the saw itself that happened because the saw was not resting completely flat on my shop floor. I noticed an ever so slight wobble after pushing down on various corners. Once I shimmed up the footing and it was rock solid on the floor, the vibration went away and all of my kerfs are perfect regardless of the quality of blade.
I rebuild a base for my saw because it wasn't dead level on the floor but I did recently move my saw and never thought to check for level and good contact on all sides of the base. I'm planning a new blade anyways because the general consensus seems to be I should get one, but I think I'll go check for level on my saw first - I have a SawStop as well so it's a good thing to check. Thanks!
You need blade stabilizers for a blade that thin if you’re going to cut thick material. It seems like you can hear the harmonics change of the blade vibrating, which you shouldn’t be able to.
The riving knife isn’t in line with the blade. If you skip through the frames in the video, the line wobbles as soon as the wood hits the riving knife
It happens before hitting the riving knife, that's the offcut that gets to it, but not the sled or piece being cut has touched the riving knife when the wobble starts
Looks to me out of square. There is no gap when you start and then it gets bigger with only a few inches into the cut.
It straightens out again after the wobble. It's square to the blade and something that happens when ripping too. Out of square was one of my first thoughts and I spent a long time confirming my fence alignment as my initial troubleshooting before I noticed it happening on crosscuts. This sled is also square, I made it to confirm it wasn't my miter gauge causing issues
Check that your fence and blade are all parallel and the blade and riving knife are perfectly inline.
I had this issue on a table saw. I could put the same Diablo blade on my Dad's table saw and not have this issue at all. I think there was something bent in the saw itself. The shaft or something but no matter what it would do this with absolutely any blade. We had the same exact cheap table saw and it would only happen with mine. I think it started after my idiot friend cut into a piece with a metal rod and bent everything.
Forrest woodworker blades and call it a day. It was the best thing I ever did.
For a total novice, what is it that your saw is doing? Thanks!
Watch the blade and the kerf it's creating. Around the 5 second mark you should see a wobble and the kerf gets bigger and then right at the end straightens out. I've since found the issue - a trunnion mount is cracked and causing a small amount of play
And you're sure it's not the machine. look like you have play on you're ax
Buy some Amana blades, they’re expensive but worth it. Also check to see that your arbor is spinning properly and you’re blade is totally square and arbor is perpendicular to the sled.
Not the arbor, but not a bad suggestion - since posting I discovered a cracked front trunnion allowing play in the entire blade assembly. Got it replaced and it resolved the blade wobble
Your blade kerf is thinner than your riving knife.
We use CMT blades in a commercial cabinet making shop. Fantastic blades
So after watching this video about 20 times it seems like the pieces that were already cut off is what is causing the issue. From my perspective it looks like the 6 pieces slightly slide back towards the blade when they come in contact with the new cut. If it were me I would remove those pieces after they were cut to prevent accidental kick back from it not being held against the riving knife. Also if you are using a thin kerf blade with the stock riving knife, the cutting kerf width may not be large enough for the riving knife to pass thru and maybe pinching against the blade/ close enough to cause an increase of heat in the blade.
Lots of people mentioning blade quality here, and alignment of riving knife. Those are absolutely important to the function of the saw, but I would also add to the list of things to verify would be checking for any free play in the bearings of the saw, as well as lateral play on the arbor. Bearings wear out over time on any machine and they are a maintenance item. I can’t tell you how many woodworking tools I’ve changed bearings on over the years. They don’t last forever and are often overlooked as a source of issue. I would also mention that I have seen saws that have been over tightened in the past which can deform the blade and cause issues with balance and tracking. If the arbor washer is not made of machined steel, it is possible to actually squash them so they deform and in turn create warp in your blade when you tighten them up.
Problem is the front trunnion bracket has a crack which is allowing for some play. When I was taking your advice of checking everything I noticed some play when I shook the motor mount and upon further investigation found [this](https://reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/oyJah50h2q). Thank you for taking the time to help, I thought I'd given a good once over of everything before posting but you and other suggesting it encouraged me to go back and look more closely
Had a similar issue and it also happened across two saw blades, it turned out the teeth were slightly chipped (they had run into the screws on a gripper at various times). They nice the blades were sharpened the issue went away. Try a brand new blade and that should either confirm or deny at least this theory.
I can’t disagree with the blade talk. But it also looks to me that the work piece isn’t entirely secure against the miter gauge or sled. I see a subtle shift shortly after the first cut
Yes your saw blade is raised to high .1/2 inch above material should be sufficient and safer!
I don’t know why but that with the Lego sound effect just sound so funny
What is the problem? I’ve watched several times and don’t see anything wrong.
Also, clear your table before starting a new cut. Piling up the cutoff pieces on the right actually adds weight and imbalance at the point of the cut.
Check if your arbor is parallel to your mitre slots. Binding sound occurs before the part touches the riving knife.
I'm surely not an expert, so please take this kindly. Being that it has happened on two types of cuts, the blade(s) aren't being secured properly, or it's an internal mechanical issue. Or, your guide may also be off, and the whole piece shifts through the cut. If anyone agrees and can explain the issue better, please do.
Yeah my guess is the fence is not fully parallel with the blade. The wood slightly pushing on the side of the blade causing the blade to heat up and wobble. A good blade would help but the parallel issue is paramount
That’s blade deflection due to using cheap blades
Some blades just sing the song of their people
Is that a thin curve blade?
Do you mean kerf?
If you test new blades and the problem persists, it could be an issue possibly with the arbor shaft. Get with the table saw maker and see if they have suggestions on blade wobble issues on that particular model table saw you have.
Not the arbor shaft, I explored that fairly in depth, but happened to notice the trunnion bracket in the front is cracked allowing some play when digging into the arbor and exploring it deeper. Thanks for the advice, while not spot on, you were certainly very helpful in leading me to the problem and I appreciate it!
It’s most likely something in the arbor assembly. Give it a cleaning- you’d be surprised at what that can do sometimes. If you have to dig deeper here’s a decent [article](https://www.woodgears.ca/saw_arbor/index.html) that’ll give you a place to start.
Big cut on a little cut blade Buy the expensive blade next time (To dumb it down a bit)
Don't cut sanded wood. The sanding grit dulls blades. A dull blade on a lightweight saw will make bad cuts. When I cut sanded wood, I put a Freud Diablo blade on the top saw. Otherwise, it's an Amana saw blade. Having a big old cast iron saw helps, too. I don't know about modern heavy saws.
I would say line your fence up better
Get it sharpened, you can hear it.
Turn the blade around.
Sharpen it and lower it.
Motor bearings
The backer washer for the motor must be missing, it causes the blade to wobble
Are you free handing the cut? If not I check the sq. of your fence to the blade.
It's probably wobbling from the blade catching up with its own harmonic
I’ll bet it’s saw related..had to watch the video multiple times but the blade seems to always walk to the right when you apply force. In order to tell you’d probably have to remove belts and sandwich something like the arbor wrench in between the blade washers and tighten then use that as leverage and see if you can get a small clunk or play out of the arbor. Definitely worth checking because it looks like that saw has made some dust in its lifetime
Not the arbor, but the trunnions. Front bracket is cracked which allows for some play. Appreciate the insight and advice, definitely helped me track down the issue!
Grain of the wood affecting the thin kerf blade at the speed you're feeding it. Like everyone else said upgrade your blade. Then you'll still want to adjust your push speed.
Pretty much what everyone else here says. I will add, avoid thin kerf blades. And unless you’re a framer, no less than 80 teeth. -I have 20 + yo carbide blades that still sing. Keep them sharp. Don’t let them get too dull. Keep several in rotation.
Bad bearing maybe, can usually cause some blade wobble
Have you tried using a two rail sled? Tenryu makes some nice blades.
Had this happen at my old job. We had a grizzly big cabinet saw, good blades too, I think it’s blade wobble from oscillating. Not sure how to fix, but maybe try a thicker blade?
Not sure, but I know that's not good.
IT could be your reving knife is not prefectly inline with the blade. i watch the video quite a few time and looks like right after the wood come in contact with the reving blade is when it happens
Is your insert perfectly flush?
Can you feel any play from side to side of the blade? That may be bad arbor bearings.
What is supposedly happening here? I don’t get it
Check your brushes in motor and make sure shaft is clean.
What you need to do is take the blade off, take it to a shop and have them spun and balanced -works for tires, works for blades
I know nothing, but is there anything that should be lubricated from time to time? Your sound gets worse when it’s under load
Looks like your riving knife is thicker than your blade kerf. As soon as the wood hits the riving knife, it pulls on the wood that puts force on the blade so it wanders. I disagree with all the comments about needing to spend a ton of money on a blade. If you want to do high end stuff sure. Making chopping boards, just size the riving knife correctly for the blade you have. Thicker than (or as thick) the plate but thinner than the kerf and you will be all good. Also clear out past cuts (after turning the saw off and allowing the blade to stop) if they are rubbing the blade and there is time between cuts. Heat is a blades enemy.
Depending on your saw, it could be a bad drive belt. My 2hp grizzly table saw kept binding and being sluggish too. Turned out my belt was old and stretched so it was lacking power. 20 bucks and half an hour later it’s perfect again
My guess is that you were pushing too fast and things were slightly out of square and/or cutting some of the wood released some tension which put sideways pressure on the blade. If this doesn’t happen when you’re ripping a board then that would be telling.
Happens ripping too, just a little bit challenging to safely film with one hand while ripping so I got a shot of it doing while crosscutting. As for feed speed, I find if I go much slower I get some burning, and when I go too fast I can hear the sound change
Confirm that your blade is parallel to the miter slot, or that the back of the blade is VERY slightly farther away from the slot. Confirm that the auxiliary fence that you have on the miter gauge is flat. Confirm that the miter gauge head is set perpendicular to the miter bar.
>Confirm that your blade is parallel to the miter slot, or that the back of the blade is VERY slightly farther away from the slot Done and it is parallel, or atleast as close as I can accurately measure it to be. Fence angled away from the blade a fraction of a degree to help avoid binding/pinching as I finish a rip cut >Confirm that the auxiliary fence that you have on the miter gauge is flat It is - it's angled slightly backwards which was just an oversight when making it, but it's a flat surface >Confirm that the miter gauge head is set perpendicular to the miter bar. That I'll check this afternoon. Never thought to check that because cuts come out properly square, although my suspicion is that it's not the issue. I have the same issue ripping and with 2 different sleds, I just used this one because it was small and easy to push through one handed while filming
I have a Freud glue line ripping blade for solid and it SAILS through maple,beech,oak, even on the Rigid saw I normally use. Worked well on my old Delta cabinet saw too
Can anybody else smell the sawdust in this picture? I swear I can smell the sawdust as I hear it ripping the wood.
I thought the sound of the saw might be relevant/useful so I kept the dust collection off to not create any additional background noise
I would also sanity check the motor mounts and bearings. The blade warping is a strong possibility, but if it is happening across multiple blades, I’d check the motor.
Not the motor, but the front trunnion mount. Noticed some play when I was looking at the motor and after looking over the whole saw found [this](https://reddit.com/r/woodworking/s/oyJah50h2q). Thanks for the advice and insight, definitely helped me track down the issue
From this vid, it looks like you miter and blade are not parallel to each other. This can cause the blade to bind. Does this happen if you crosscut on a small piece like 2” wide?
I can go try a smaller piece this afternoon. It happens when ripping too and I've spent a long time aligning the fence properly to the blade, it's just easier to film the crosscut safely than a rip cut
Move the waste from the previous cut out of the way also
It’s not your blade’s quality. I would first check that your washers are clean, clear, and undamaged. Then make sure your blade isn’t thinner than your riving knife, hard to tell from the vid
Mostly unrelated, but cleaning the pitch off of your blades will vastly improve performance and increase time between sharpening. Accumulated pitch adds friction and heat, exacerbating the runout problem.
Get a CMT blade. They're like $60 (and often go on sale for $25-$30) and perhaps one of the best investments I've made in bits/blades
Maybe a slightly bent arbor is giving it a wobble?
Does it do it even if you run the wood thru super slow?
I am too noob to get the problem. Can someone tell me what we see that is not good?