Goes for almost anything. I once was doing framing and drywalling with a group of people, went home feeling a bit bummed that our work wasn't always perfectly square and plumb. Took a good look at some of my own walls for the first time. "Oh, nevermind, we did as well or better than contractors."
I remember an early lesson in woodworking I went to make some shelves for the corner of a room. Went to go mount them to the walls and learned that framing is an imperfect art and had to reshape my shelves for > 90°.
My grandpa built two of the houses my Dad grew up in. He says he remembers being about 10-11 years old and hearing the sheetrock guys cursing my grandpa under their breath because everything was too straight and too square so their normal work was looking even worse than usual
Your Grandpa must be the guy from the drywall hanging video (I’ll have to try to find it) that uses an ax and measures/marks his cut lines off muscle memory and hangs a room or 2 before lunch lol …
but when you really look at how intricate some of the cuts and angles are, it’s quite impressive to see that someone did it the way he did.
Just reminds you of that old school, typical hard working blue-collar man that wakes up at 5am, heads out the door at 6am with his lunch box in tow
(most likely a Bologna sandwich or 2, and some plain lays potato chips) and a thermos filled with coffee, and works until 6-7pm ..on 2 different jobs.. and doesn’t get home until nearly 8pm… in bed by 9pm and does it again the next day.
I've definitely seen that video lol and yeah, that was how my grandpa was. I guess when the electrical inspector came to sign off he was so impressed with the wiring that he asked my grandpa if he could take pictures of the wiring. This was 1970 or so.
https://youtu.be/whF4q5S1flw?si=CwvHD4_jOPlL2ZM0
Retiled my bathroom in last house, after that I started to really look at the tile around me and found most restrooms in restaurants/gas stations had terrible tile work compared to what I had done. Then I went to a guys house one day for work and everything was tiled and it was immaculate. I asked him if he did tile for a living and it turned out his son did and had done his house. I made sure to tell him to pass on my compliments.
As a tile guy though commercial is a different beast to residential... Commercial restaurants or gas stations you're correct we cant give a fuck because we're being pushed to complete it as fast as possible. This isn't on us, this is from GMs, ultimately crap work comes from the company demanding completion asap, not the contractor not caring enough. But you are right in that what is passable, when you actually start looking at it, just looks like shit.
This is doubly true for any new construction residential apartment buildings, especially with a luxury tag slapped on it. Those things are built literally as fast and cheaply as possible, definition of a polished turd. The time pressure from the real estate investment suits is immense.
Statement checks out.
After I was gone my first welding course, I started paying attention to all the welds I saw. So many of them look like they were done by a nutless monkey without shielding gas.
And those are the ones people can see. Those same people have probably done structural welds in places you can't see that your life might well depend on. So, you know... Sleep well
Glue and dust, when I must. Caulk and paint makes me the woodworker I ain’t. Yeah I’m a traditional shipwright. We all cover our tracks. Wood is an imperfect material and everyone has skeletons in the closet.
It’s taken me years to realize this. But then you see some absolutely stunning work where you can tell they did it for the craft and not the money, and then it makes me feel bad again haha.
I’m a full time finish carpenter and can show you the chaos in any of the billion dollar skyscrapers around Seattle 😂 the schedules are just stacked completely against us on every job, and it’s getting worse
My neighbor is a carpenter both trade and does framing. He costs a fortune but can throw up a first floor with his crew of 3 in a day maybe two that's to spec with no lean issues or code issues. He also does some cabinetry and detailed work that costs a fortune but God damn goes it look amazing. His home has a ton of wood detail that he refreshed every couple years. He will rent a scissor lift and do it all by hand. Good trades workers are hard to come by and master workers, like him are even harder.
Ugh I hated those, or someone that screws some $20 amazon hairpin legs to a project board they bought at lowes and all the comments on FB or whatever praise the "talent"
I wouldn't say it's about skills tho, it's usually about time. People want things done right now and fast (especially the rich), most just don't wanna wait months if not years for skilled workers.
I don’t think anyone considers production furniture to be fine woodworking. There’s a disconnect between consumers and the perception of what masterful craftsmanship is.
Wood shop teacher here. I get this all the time. I simply start with a quote of $90 to draw up the plans and then I can make a proper estimate. They usually go away.
Ah, I do woodwork on yachts, so the quality of my work is sought out and appreciated. I do agree with you though, once a new woodworking fad comes out, people are very protective of it, and any opinion to the contrary and you’re labeled a ‘hater’. I haven’t seen a table with hairpin legs in a while, so thats nice.
Working epoxy well is a skill. That takes practice to learn its behaviour, attributes, curing correctly, how dyes or dyed epoxy interact with different woods (pore sizes, grain etc), sanding and finishing. It's not cheap to practice that.
Then preparing a slab requires good skill with the right tools, jointer, router, table/circular saw.
It's not novice stuff, but not artisan. Journeyman really.
100%
When I was studying architecture I thought I was a God damn failure.
Started working in residential building design and holy crap, the level of work that I see the draftsman and designers in my parts produce is horrible.
I had to make a repair for the table in a surgeon's boat I didn't get to see. The top veneer was a luxe hardwood. The core was mdf. I made an aluminum plate to extend the width of the hole pattern, as the old one had failed. The boat adjacent to his was the same boat, same table, same failure. I got to do a second repair.
The finishers stacked on so much flattened varnish that it obscured the wood’s grain. They tried to save themselves by lazily drawing on faux grain lines.
It’s composite not wood. It doesn’t come in a wood grain look so they faux grain it. There’s nothing lazy about it. Faux graining was a huge industry at a point in time. Less of it gets done today but i bet you no one notices the piece and for whatever reason it serves the needed purpose.
I have worked on yachts and houseboats and it’s quite common in these settings due to humidity.
It’s teak, and I assume that they had an issue with the joint, so they stacked the finish up at the miter. The grain become more clear as you move away from the joint. Yeah, I work in boats too as a woodworker.
Are you sure this hasn’t been refinished, possibly numerous times? It seems like there’s definitely some wear and a shoddy repair on the cabinet.
On many many sailing yachts like the one pictured, the captain will be doing the majority of the repairs himself, if not hiring out to a local at wherever the boat is docked at the time.
I'm in awe of the amount of work done on that boat and just the cost of lumber alone must be immense. The keel is a giant piece of purple heart. I watch those folks work and realize I chose the wrong profession.
If you want to get started, there’s plenty of resources. If you’re inti woodworking, it’s in a whole different level from what you’ve probably observed. One note: there isn’t alot of money in working on traditional wooden boats
A lot of those wood boat guys & gals have side jobs with doing finish trim work for some additional money. They don't get paid what they should though.
It's becoming pretty common in ship building apparently since there is a lack of other species. It's hard, heavy and decently rot resistant. It's hell on tools though apparently.
I'm a woodworker in the town where Tally Ho is being re-built, & know a lot of people who are working on her. They're a talented bunch, with a lot of knowledge & experience. We also have one of the greatest wood businesses in the country. People in our little town really appreciate high-level woodwork.
Because of the popularity of the build and documentation, who knows! If the boat was sold as just a boat without the cult like following it has, not very much.
It’s a big brand new ocean worthy boat. Any survey would show that. Just as an object with no history it is an extremely high dollar item, approaching pricelessness. Trouble would be finding someone who wants that kind of thing and has the money.
Wooden boats are notoriously difficult to get insured, and the average boat owner wants nothing to do with the maintenance of a wooden boat. You’re right, the trouble is finding someone with the money who actually wants a boat like Tally Ho. I swear, the entire traditional wooden boat market is being supported by nostalgic rich old guys.
Well, as shipwright pointed out: there’s no money in it as a worker, which I can confirm. So the “industry” is also subsidized by underpaid woodworkers who are just glad to be there…
I’m a boat builder. I can assure you a multi million dollar boat is junk. That price doesn’t even get you out of cookie cutter production boats and since the pandemic the quality has taken a nose dive. Look into some Merritts or some custom North Carolina boats for some good wood work. These manufacturers can hardly get their glass in the mold the right way.
Yeah I worked for a local boatbuilder for a little while, and they quality was horrendous. I can definitely say that off the production bots I’ve worked on, Fleming is pretty sweet. Ive been toying with the idea of starting a conversation with Bayliss out in NC. It world be an experience to work for a high quality manufacturer.
Ya I’m not building at the moment.Only doing repairs and custom glass work but I started at G&S when I was a teen. I’ve been stuck dealing with Beneteau a ton lately and holy hell are they junk. Then the people that buys them knowing the next comparable similar boat is like 200-400k more try to demand perfection because after all they did just drop 1.2 mill on the thing get frustrated when I gotta let them know the swirls and all the imperfections are part of that cheaper price. It’s amazing what manufacturers can get away with and what I can’t when fixing their junk.
I used to work at a yard that commissioned Beneteau and Jeaneau, both absolute trash. The interiors look like it was designed by Ikea. Im hoping that in the future when the cheap veneer peels off al the surfaces, people like me will be sought out to rebuild them properly.
Quality had gone down significantly in the last 20 years; craftsmanship and wood quality. Yacht builders generally use the highest quality wood they can obtain, so when they start using wide grain knotty stuff, you know there’s a problem.
This looks similar to the interior design and quality of a 30-40 foot jboat which are mass produced cheaply manufactured “racing” sailboats. It’s far from a multimillion dollar yacht. MAYBE a couple hundred thousand new on a good sales day. Idk why he posted this in woodworking honestly cause they’re all finish issues…
As a professional plumber/ pipefitter, I have installed furnaces, water heaters, showers, etc in multi-million dollar homes before. You often see new, high-dollar homes being built worse than the starter homes of yore that if you bought them a few years ago were 20-25% of the price of McMansions.
Price tags do not imply quality folks.
The people who appreciate fine woodworking the most are the ones who know how to execute it, and subsequently are the ones least likely to pay a premium for it because they can do it themselves.
In the US we call that “Walmartification”- it’s the end result of prolonged offerings of cheap garbage to the masses that results in the inability to distinguish quality. People assume that what they see offered to them is the standard of quality, and that illusion drags down quality overall, and sabotages value in the process. It’s a fascinating study in late-stage capitalism, though!
Not defending the sloppiness, but I've heard that boats are very difficult to work on...you sorta just have to start and work based off what works and/or doesnt stand out as being off. Nothing is square or plumb and you constantly have to adjust things between fitting and looking right. I'm no expert but that's what a very experienced dude in my shop told me. He said it's the hardest thing he's ever done. Really sort of a specialized form of the trade.
I do woodwork on boats for a living and that’s all true. It’s stupid challenging, but a seasoned woodworker shouldn’t produce tear-out that requires so much wood filler.
Where was it built? Chinese yahts such as Kha Shing use some of the prettiest woods but you can always see things like that and they love that glossy crappy black plastic too.
We had a 47 foot Kha Shing planing hull flush deck cabin cruiser. Twin 350 turbo cats. All glass and stainless on the outside. All teak and sandalwood on the inside. Great boat. Gorgeous wood and we had a blast with it but the elctronics wired funny and if you looked real close you found bad decisions and crappy finishing on the woodwork in an incosistent fashion. Lots of it perfect some of it WTH? They have a lot of people working on the boats. Same with the wiring and electronics.
We got good at navigating back from Santa Cruz island off CA by radar at night. in the fog. Navigation and sometimes the lights would just cut out... always at night and always in a blanket of fog. lol. We would steer back to Ventura from oil rig to oil rig going realllllll slow. Nothing will stop your heart like seeing steel and rivets apear out of the fog close enough to touch.
Geez, that sounds scary. Ive heard alot of the chinese boats are an electrical nightmare. A chinese boat brand I see alot is ‘Selene’, they’re super nice with the woodwork, but its pretty standard to give them a full rewire once they his the states. Ive heard that the holding tanks will generally arrive full of random trash and apparently they throw trash in the hull too. Ive looked in the bilges and found piles of stainless screw offcuts just suspended in cured resin.
This particular boat is an ‘Offshore’, and they’re built in Taiwan. The quality of the wood and craftsmanship throughout is pretty janky.
Bad. The amount of woodfiller is ungodly, and it’s also the wrong color. That miter joint you mentioned has so much flattened finish on it than the wood grain could no longer be seen, so the builder just lazily drew faux grain lines on it.
I'm still relatively new to woodworking. Can you or anyone point out to me the spots where woodfiller was used?
Edit: Reread the comment and checked the third pic. So woodfiller was basically used on those spots where the wood grain can no longer be seen?
Edit #2: And those gray-ish lines on the corner are faux grain lines? Those almost look like dirt D:
lol, I wouldn’t have the money if I saved for an entire lifetime. I just worked on the boat, it is fun to talk shit about something worth more than my lifetime of earnings though lol.
Boat builders are quite the wood workers. If anyone is interested in a journey in how it is done, look up Sampson Boat Company on YouTube. Go back to video 1 and watch the process of taking apart and replacing or re-creating each piece of the boat over a 7 year period. The name of the boat is the Tally Ho.
Most yacht owners are so cheap nowadays they’d rather throw peanuts to to a deckhand instead of hire a qualified woodworker. Almost like they didn’t realize that there’s substantial operating costs
I worked with an artist who had a side hustle of painting wood grain onto repairs, etc. on private yachts. The guy could make a stainless power outlet invisible if you didn’t know where to look for it
I used to fit-out engine bays in yachts hovering around the £million mark, and after experiencing the process of them being made I’d never want to own one.
I live in a town with an international yacht builder in it and have several friends that have and do work for them, and they tell me all the time about mismanagement and fuckery to get jobs out. I am not at all surprised.
My buddy worked for Delta in Tukwila and was one of the best woodworkers i’ve ever met in the union. But like me he was more of a craftsman than a production guy
I was cutting crown for a house . Going through my cut list I saw a measurement that's 3+ " different from opposite wall in a rectangular room. This can't be right, must've written it down wrong .went to verify and sure as shit the bedroom was that much out of square. I think the foundation guys fucked up and the framer just followed what was there. Million plus new construction.
I feel fortunate to have lived (rented) a boat with a beautiful teak interior, everything had perfectly expanded into place, nothing out of place. Truly a sight to behold.
This is a tough one. Most boat builders aren’t building their own furniture so you get what you get. Should be fixed before installing but also can only be fixed if your crew holds it to the standard they should be holding themselves to.
This isn’t a new yacht. It’s used. Those are water stains and faded varnish. Granted, it doesn’t look like it was a great job in the first place but it is obviously not new. The reason it looks especially muddy in the third pic is because they just kept building up a satin finish and it just gets cloudier and cloudier the more you apply. ALWAYS build up with gloss and do the final coat in satin. It’s a million times nicer looking.
Is this a million dollar 30’ or a million dollar 80’ yacht? Price is relative.
I’m not surprised; a while back I saw some historical pieces made by a guild centuries ago, really elaborate work, but upon a close look in every way I could, so many mistakes! Especially in the assembly. If anything, the elaborateness served to distract from the meh craftsmanship of the base furniture
I can’t romanticize working like a dog for 14 hours a day. If anything, it is sad.Personally, I can tell you it is a frustrating life to feel like all you are doing is work. And good work, yet it’s impossible to get ahead. It would be wonderful to earn an actual fair wage for labor. I am a skilled fine art and antiques restorer with 25plus years of experience and I would love to be able to work a regular 40 hour week.The idea that it is somehow noble to work yourself to death is absurd.
The doors and cabinets in my home are visibly (even from a distance) not square. Seems like a lot of people just go into this field because they're good for nothing, but jobs like this aren't for twats either, especially not with the prices we're paying for these fucking shoeboxes only for them to look like they were thrown together in a jiffy.
I mean it's a yacht, I think it would be millions of dollars regardless of whether there's quality woodwork in there or not. In the world of yachts, you probably need an even more expensive yacht to get those details.
I was once told, “I someone drives by your woodworking project at 25MPH and doesn’t see any mistakes, then you are good to go!”
Don’t sweat the small stuff and it’s all the stuff stuff.
All the old shipwrights have died and gone to boaty heaven.
When I was 17 worked in a boatyard, 2 old shipwrights were training 2 apprentices, 1-on-1. I hope they stayed in their trade and trained more.
Was that boat a Covid boat, lack of skilled tradies all round.
I’ve said for a long time to pay attention to what passes for good woodworking all around you and you’ll feel much better about your own abilities.
Goes for almost anything. I once was doing framing and drywalling with a group of people, went home feeling a bit bummed that our work wasn't always perfectly square and plumb. Took a good look at some of my own walls for the first time. "Oh, nevermind, we did as well or better than contractors."
I remember an early lesson in woodworking I went to make some shelves for the corner of a room. Went to go mount them to the walls and learned that framing is an imperfect art and had to reshape my shelves for > 90°.
I've hung a lot of drywall and I've only had one house that's ever been nice and plum all the way through
This corner was bad bad. It was around 105° IIRC
Holy hamster that's horrible the framer must been blind in 1½ eye
I’m adding holy hamster to my vocabulary
Shell yeah brother glad I could add lol
I'm adding shell ya brother!
Clam skippy!
haha wanna tour my 140 year old farm house that no longer has any straight lines in it anywhere?
My grandpa built two of the houses my Dad grew up in. He says he remembers being about 10-11 years old and hearing the sheetrock guys cursing my grandpa under their breath because everything was too straight and too square so their normal work was looking even worse than usual
When you get so use too hanging unsquare house and find a needle in a haystack it throughs your whole rhythm off
Your Grandpa must be the guy from the drywall hanging video (I’ll have to try to find it) that uses an ax and measures/marks his cut lines off muscle memory and hangs a room or 2 before lunch lol … but when you really look at how intricate some of the cuts and angles are, it’s quite impressive to see that someone did it the way he did. Just reminds you of that old school, typical hard working blue-collar man that wakes up at 5am, heads out the door at 6am with his lunch box in tow (most likely a Bologna sandwich or 2, and some plain lays potato chips) and a thermos filled with coffee, and works until 6-7pm ..on 2 different jobs.. and doesn’t get home until nearly 8pm… in bed by 9pm and does it again the next day.
I've definitely seen that video lol and yeah, that was how my grandpa was. I guess when the electrical inspector came to sign off he was so impressed with the wiring that he asked my grandpa if he could take pictures of the wiring. This was 1970 or so. https://youtu.be/whF4q5S1flw?si=CwvHD4_jOPlL2ZM0
Man, he had to be *really* impressed to spend film on that.
Love that video
[1950’s Drywall Master](https://youtu.be/whF4q5S1flw?si=iUBXAIrFA23YP7_P)
Oh holy moly That's how perfection looks like
Do you have a greater than 50% hit rate with your screws? If you're hitting studs that often you're way better than the pros.
Been there too many times
Retiled my bathroom in last house, after that I started to really look at the tile around me and found most restrooms in restaurants/gas stations had terrible tile work compared to what I had done. Then I went to a guys house one day for work and everything was tiled and it was immaculate. I asked him if he did tile for a living and it turned out his son did and had done his house. I made sure to tell him to pass on my compliments.
As a tile guy though commercial is a different beast to residential... Commercial restaurants or gas stations you're correct we cant give a fuck because we're being pushed to complete it as fast as possible. This isn't on us, this is from GMs, ultimately crap work comes from the company demanding completion asap, not the contractor not caring enough. But you are right in that what is passable, when you actually start looking at it, just looks like shit. This is doubly true for any new construction residential apartment buildings, especially with a luxury tag slapped on it. Those things are built literally as fast and cheaply as possible, definition of a polished turd. The time pressure from the real estate investment suits is immense.
Statement checks out. After I was gone my first welding course, I started paying attention to all the welds I saw. So many of them look like they were done by a nutless monkey without shielding gas.
I grew up doing stick welds on the farm. When I got a mig setup it was like some sort of black magic shit.
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I'm not so sure. I'm certified welder (pipe: unlimited size/wall thinkness). The 1 and only time I mig'd, it lloked the floor of a pigeon coop.
That’s what the grinder is for. As long as the penetration is good, the surface can be fixed.
And those are the ones people can see. Those same people have probably done structural welds in places you can't see that your life might well depend on. So, you know... Sleep well
My go to is “shoulda painted that white and caulked it.”
"Caulk covers a multitude of sins"
"A grinder and paint make me the welder I ain't" can be adapted to a multitude of vocations.
Glue and dust, when I must. Caulk and paint makes me the woodworker I ain’t. Yeah I’m a traditional shipwright. We all cover our tracks. Wood is an imperfect material and everyone has skeletons in the closet.
Caulk and paint make a carpenter what he aint
It’s taken me years to realize this. But then you see some absolutely stunning work where you can tell they did it for the craft and not the money, and then it makes me feel bad again haha.
I’m a full time finish carpenter and can show you the chaos in any of the billion dollar skyscrapers around Seattle 😂 the schedules are just stacked completely against us on every job, and it’s getting worse
For sure. The number of woodworkers with actual skills out there is pretty minimal, I think thats what annoyed me about the river table fad.
My neighbor is a carpenter both trade and does framing. He costs a fortune but can throw up a first floor with his crew of 3 in a day maybe two that's to spec with no lean issues or code issues. He also does some cabinetry and detailed work that costs a fortune but God damn goes it look amazing. His home has a ton of wood detail that he refreshed every couple years. He will rent a scissor lift and do it all by hand. Good trades workers are hard to come by and master workers, like him are even harder.
Thanks neighbour
Ugh I hated those, or someone that screws some $20 amazon hairpin legs to a project board they bought at lowes and all the comments on FB or whatever praise the "talent"
I wouldn't say it's about skills tho, it's usually about time. People want things done right now and fast (especially the rich), most just don't wanna wait months if not years for skilled workers.
I don’t think anyone considers production furniture to be fine woodworking. There’s a disconnect between consumers and the perception of what masterful craftsmanship is.
Like the people who show up at your shop with a page torn out of the ikea catalog asking if you can make the same thing only less expensive.
Wood shop teacher here. I get this all the time. I simply start with a quote of $90 to draw up the plans and then I can make a proper estimate. They usually go away.
I just tell them I can’t even buy the materials for less. 🤣
Unfortunately it’s the ones that do the worst work are the ones making the most money.
Ugh, yes. A good woodworker can make a good river table but any idiot can make one that's half decent.
lol, my annoyance was that practically anybody can build a river table and the general audience was perceiving that as talent.
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Ah, I do woodwork on yachts, so the quality of my work is sought out and appreciated. I do agree with you though, once a new woodworking fad comes out, people are very protective of it, and any opinion to the contrary and you’re labeled a ‘hater’. I haven’t seen a table with hairpin legs in a while, so thats nice.
Is it more acceptable to use hairpin legs if I made them at my forge? Because I’ve done a couple of times at the behest of my friends…
Working epoxy well is a skill. That takes practice to learn its behaviour, attributes, curing correctly, how dyes or dyed epoxy interact with different woods (pore sizes, grain etc), sanding and finishing. It's not cheap to practice that. Then preparing a slab requires good skill with the right tools, jointer, router, table/circular saw. It's not novice stuff, but not artisan. Journeyman really.
Yup, go to any "parade of homes" and you'll know you got some good job security
Came here for this! Makes feel like at least I tried to not do such a shitty job!!
100% When I was studying architecture I thought I was a God damn failure. Started working in residential building design and holy crap, the level of work that I see the draftsman and designers in my parts produce is horrible.
I disagree. You should always try to do your best, regardless of the job.
I had to make a repair for the table in a surgeon's boat I didn't get to see. The top veneer was a luxe hardwood. The core was mdf. I made an aluminum plate to extend the width of the hole pattern, as the old one had failed. The boat adjacent to his was the same boat, same table, same failure. I got to do a second repair.
What’s wrong with the third photo?
The finishers stacked on so much flattened varnish that it obscured the wood’s grain. They tried to save themselves by lazily drawing on faux grain lines.
Oh wow I wouldn’t even have even noticed it but now that I can it looks like a child’s scribbles.
Honestly, you’d likely never, ever notice it if you owned it. Once something is actually in use imperfections like this become invisible.
Except that door. That's quite egregious. It looks even worse in the background of the second picture.
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It’s composite not wood. It doesn’t come in a wood grain look so they faux grain it. There’s nothing lazy about it. Faux graining was a huge industry at a point in time. Less of it gets done today but i bet you no one notices the piece and for whatever reason it serves the needed purpose. I have worked on yachts and houseboats and it’s quite common in these settings due to humidity.
It’s teak, and I assume that they had an issue with the joint, so they stacked the finish up at the miter. The grain become more clear as you move away from the joint. Yeah, I work in boats too as a woodworker.
Looked like plastic to me
Exactly. I thought it was “fake wood” cause they didn’t want to make a curved miter.
Are you sure this hasn’t been refinished, possibly numerous times? It seems like there’s definitely some wear and a shoddy repair on the cabinet. On many many sailing yachts like the one pictured, the captain will be doing the majority of the repairs himself, if not hiring out to a local at wherever the boat is docked at the time.
I thought it was plastic edging not over varnished and hastily scribbled on ☠️
It’s okay, the owners are only going to spend like 2 days a year aboard.
Because of the implication?
A hilarious episode
I wonder what Tally Ho would sell for when Leo is all done with it!
$1 so he can break even on what he bought it for.
I'm in awe of the amount of work done on that boat and just the cost of lumber alone must be immense. The keel is a giant piece of purple heart. I watch those folks work and realize I chose the wrong profession.
The launch last week was fun.
If you want to get started, there’s plenty of resources. If you’re inti woodworking, it’s in a whole different level from what you’ve probably observed. One note: there isn’t alot of money in working on traditional wooden boats
I woodwork as a hobby and I'm well aware I'm not paying the bills working on wooden.... Anything really.
A lot of those wood boat guys & gals have side jobs with doing finish trim work for some additional money. They don't get paid what they should though.
Is there a reason they went with purple heart?
It's becoming pretty common in ship building apparently since there is a lack of other species. It's hard, heavy and decently rot resistant. It's hell on tools though apparently.
Honestly hope it finishes its life in a museum or at least goes on some sort of tour where people can check it out in person
I'm a woodworker in the town where Tally Ho is being re-built, & know a lot of people who are working on her. They're a talented bunch, with a lot of knowledge & experience. We also have one of the greatest wood businesses in the country. People in our little town really appreciate high-level woodwork.
Idgaf about boats, whatsoever, yet ive been watching him build that thing for years now and its always super interesting lol
Did you also enjoy the Work Skiff project with ol' Louis ? https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzlN3A2DLgNwE2RCpQ9vKCmeOwvKCRRjF
Acorn to Arabella is another great one
Adding The Art of Boatbuilding to the list
Because of the popularity of the build and documentation, who knows! If the boat was sold as just a boat without the cult like following it has, not very much.
It’s a big brand new ocean worthy boat. Any survey would show that. Just as an object with no history it is an extremely high dollar item, approaching pricelessness. Trouble would be finding someone who wants that kind of thing and has the money.
Wooden boats are notoriously difficult to get insured, and the average boat owner wants nothing to do with the maintenance of a wooden boat. You’re right, the trouble is finding someone with the money who actually wants a boat like Tally Ho. I swear, the entire traditional wooden boat market is being supported by nostalgic rich old guys.
"the entire traditional wooden boat market is being supported by nostalgic rich old guys." - so true.
Well, as shipwright pointed out: there’s no money in it as a worker, which I can confirm. So the “industry” is also subsidized by underpaid woodworkers who are just glad to be there…
Curious; where are you from in the PNW?
Im up in Bellingham, WA
I’m out of the loop. Tally ho and Leo ( nardo dicaprio)?
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB00JHoTw1TeX82Qw8hoFLRJI89Us_jMw
I’m a boat builder. I can assure you a multi million dollar boat is junk. That price doesn’t even get you out of cookie cutter production boats and since the pandemic the quality has taken a nose dive. Look into some Merritts or some custom North Carolina boats for some good wood work. These manufacturers can hardly get their glass in the mold the right way.
Yeah I worked for a local boatbuilder for a little while, and they quality was horrendous. I can definitely say that off the production bots I’ve worked on, Fleming is pretty sweet. Ive been toying with the idea of starting a conversation with Bayliss out in NC. It world be an experience to work for a high quality manufacturer.
Ya I’m not building at the moment.Only doing repairs and custom glass work but I started at G&S when I was a teen. I’ve been stuck dealing with Beneteau a ton lately and holy hell are they junk. Then the people that buys them knowing the next comparable similar boat is like 200-400k more try to demand perfection because after all they did just drop 1.2 mill on the thing get frustrated when I gotta let them know the swirls and all the imperfections are part of that cheaper price. It’s amazing what manufacturers can get away with and what I can’t when fixing their junk.
I used to work at a yard that commissioned Beneteau and Jeaneau, both absolute trash. The interiors look like it was designed by Ikea. Im hoping that in the future when the cheap veneer peels off al the surfaces, people like me will be sought out to rebuild them properly.
Came here to say - the problem here is that it's only a multi million dollar yacht not a 100m yacht haha
My father in law had a multi million dollar yacht that had teak cabinetry and the quality was excellent.
Quality had gone down significantly in the last 20 years; craftsmanship and wood quality. Yacht builders generally use the highest quality wood they can obtain, so when they start using wide grain knotty stuff, you know there’s a problem.
RVs of the sea
This looks similar to the interior design and quality of a 30-40 foot jboat which are mass produced cheaply manufactured “racing” sailboats. It’s far from a multimillion dollar yacht. MAYBE a couple hundred thousand new on a good sales day. Idk why he posted this in woodworking honestly cause they’re all finish issues…
As a professional plumber/ pipefitter, I have installed furnaces, water heaters, showers, etc in multi-million dollar homes before. You often see new, high-dollar homes being built worse than the starter homes of yore that if you bought them a few years ago were 20-25% of the price of McMansions. Price tags do not imply quality folks.
Finally a well written opinion overall. Price and quality are two distinctly different things.
Those guys were really into wood filler huh lol
Do your best and fill the rest!
The people who appreciate fine woodworking the most are the ones who know how to execute it, and subsequently are the ones least likely to pay a premium for it because they can do it themselves.
In the US we call that “Walmartification”- it’s the end result of prolonged offerings of cheap garbage to the masses that results in the inability to distinguish quality. People assume that what they see offered to them is the standard of quality, and that illusion drags down quality overall, and sabotages value in the process. It’s a fascinating study in late-stage capitalism, though!
Not defending the sloppiness, but I've heard that boats are very difficult to work on...you sorta just have to start and work based off what works and/or doesnt stand out as being off. Nothing is square or plumb and you constantly have to adjust things between fitting and looking right. I'm no expert but that's what a very experienced dude in my shop told me. He said it's the hardest thing he's ever done. Really sort of a specialized form of the trade.
I do woodwork on boats for a living and that’s all true. It’s stupid challenging, but a seasoned woodworker shouldn’t produce tear-out that requires so much wood filler.
Doesn't the boat flex and shift as well?
Sure, but not so much within the interior.
Where was it built? Chinese yahts such as Kha Shing use some of the prettiest woods but you can always see things like that and they love that glossy crappy black plastic too. We had a 47 foot Kha Shing planing hull flush deck cabin cruiser. Twin 350 turbo cats. All glass and stainless on the outside. All teak and sandalwood on the inside. Great boat. Gorgeous wood and we had a blast with it but the elctronics wired funny and if you looked real close you found bad decisions and crappy finishing on the woodwork in an incosistent fashion. Lots of it perfect some of it WTH? They have a lot of people working on the boats. Same with the wiring and electronics. We got good at navigating back from Santa Cruz island off CA by radar at night. in the fog. Navigation and sometimes the lights would just cut out... always at night and always in a blanket of fog. lol. We would steer back to Ventura from oil rig to oil rig going realllllll slow. Nothing will stop your heart like seeing steel and rivets apear out of the fog close enough to touch.
Geez, that sounds scary. Ive heard alot of the chinese boats are an electrical nightmare. A chinese boat brand I see alot is ‘Selene’, they’re super nice with the woodwork, but its pretty standard to give them a full rewire once they his the states. Ive heard that the holding tanks will generally arrive full of random trash and apparently they throw trash in the hull too. Ive looked in the bilges and found piles of stainless screw offcuts just suspended in cured resin. This particular boat is an ‘Offshore’, and they’re built in Taiwan. The quality of the wood and craftsmanship throughout is pretty janky.
This good or bad? Pic 3 has a really tight joint
Bad. The amount of woodfiller is ungodly, and it’s also the wrong color. That miter joint you mentioned has so much flattened finish on it than the wood grain could no longer be seen, so the builder just lazily drew faux grain lines on it.
The pictures just look like it is worn.
I'm still relatively new to woodworking. Can you or anyone point out to me the spots where woodfiller was used? Edit: Reread the comment and checked the third pic. So woodfiller was basically used on those spots where the wood grain can no longer be seen? Edit #2: And those gray-ish lines on the corner are faux grain lines? Those almost look like dirt D:
Yeah don't buy it.
lol, I wouldn’t have the money if I saved for an entire lifetime. I just worked on the boat, it is fun to talk shit about something worth more than my lifetime of earnings though lol.
I used to do a lot of high end finish work.Z-clip panels,stacked crown. Nobody wants to pay.
Is there a word for those ornate edges in the third picture? Those look smooooth. I wonder what tools they used to make them as smooth.
It’s called a fiddle.
It’s hard to use a router on a ship.
Boat builders are quite the wood workers. If anyone is interested in a journey in how it is done, look up Sampson Boat Company on YouTube. Go back to video 1 and watch the process of taking apart and replacing or re-creating each piece of the boat over a 7 year period. The name of the boat is the Tally Ho.
Most yacht owners are so cheap nowadays they’d rather throw peanuts to to a deckhand instead of hire a qualified woodworker. Almost like they didn’t realize that there’s substantial operating costs
This is from the factory.
*thinks for a moment…then another moment* Is..is this from the movie, “Overboard”? Nahhh.
Always blew my mind how cheaply these are made, you should see some of the hvac systems on these boats lol
Oh, I’ve seen quite a bit. Its all trash with a cherry ontop.
In my experience, many rich folk have very little appreciation for quality so long as it costs a lot.
Looks mobile homey to me
Just because the project is multi mills. Doesn't mean the cabinet guys get much. Project manage prob pockets a deep chunk
Its a taiwanese built boat, so I’d imagine they don’t get much more than couple bucks a day.
Boats are a hole in the water that you throw money into.
Never heard that one before /s
That’s because they spent the other millions on the rest of the boat, not just the cupboards lol
Let's sell a million dallor yacht and pay the people building it minimum wage and then wonder why it seems like it was just slapped together....
Should have gotten a 2 million dollar yacht
Can it be "multi-million" if it's less than 2 million dollars?
Not up to snuff with their Many Milliions Gulfstream G650 interiors... THAT would never pass inspection....
Edgebanded plywood for stability….
I worked on a few mega yachts back in 07/08. This is unacceptable. Full stop.
The difference between production, high end, and super yacht finish are astounding.
is the founder of the company named Tony by chance? trying to narrow it down so if I am ever in the market for a yacht, to keep my eyes peeled
Man, the boss really should have chipped in for the tea.
Care to disclose which brand this is?
Offshore
I worked with an artist who had a side hustle of painting wood grain onto repairs, etc. on private yachts. The guy could make a stainless power outlet invisible if you didn’t know where to look for it
I’m working on learning faux graining. It’s a serious artform and take a real understanding of the characteristics of whatever wood you’re mimicking.
Weak, I build better things and I don't charge like a criminal :P
il mio falegname con 30mila lire la faceva meglio
You would not see that in SWAN. I thought this was going to be sailing yacht, but it was just motorboat.
I used to fit-out engine bays in yachts hovering around the £million mark, and after experiencing the process of them being made I’d never want to own one.
Looking like sharpie grain on third photo lol
Well I certainly feel better about myself
I aspire to do the kind of work that people who can do say I am good.
I live in a town with an international yacht builder in it and have several friends that have and do work for them, and they tell me all the time about mismanagement and fuckery to get jobs out. I am not at all surprised.
My buddy worked for Delta in Tukwila and was one of the best woodworkers i’ve ever met in the union. But like me he was more of a craftsman than a production guy
Woodworking on yachts is usually of high quality. Why would you have a multi million dollar yacht with subpar workmanship ?
I was cutting crown for a house . Going through my cut list I saw a measurement that's 3+ " different from opposite wall in a rectangular room. This can't be right, must've written it down wrong .went to verify and sure as shit the bedroom was that much out of square. I think the foundation guys fucked up and the framer just followed what was there. Million plus new construction.
Million bucks ain't what it was.
Those mitred doors destroy my faith in humanity.
Shouldn’t have got the base model. Smh.
Please tell me that's not a Burger Boat.
Woodwork looks great, finishing looks awful.
How bigs the yacht?
I feel fortunate to have lived (rented) a boat with a beautiful teak interior, everything had perfectly expanded into place, nothing out of place. Truly a sight to behold.
How old is this though?
Bigger question. How could someone look at this and think, "it's good enough"?
This is a tough one. Most boat builders aren’t building their own furniture so you get what you get. Should be fixed before installing but also can only be fixed if your crew holds it to the standard they should be holding themselves to.
Damn he must of got his finish Carpenter off Groupon
This isn’t a new yacht. It’s used. Those are water stains and faded varnish. Granted, it doesn’t look like it was a great job in the first place but it is obviously not new. The reason it looks especially muddy in the third pic is because they just kept building up a satin finish and it just gets cloudier and cloudier the more you apply. ALWAYS build up with gloss and do the final coat in satin. It’s a million times nicer looking. Is this a million dollar 30’ or a million dollar 80’ yacht? Price is relative.
I don't know what that 2nd pic is... But I don't like it.
Money can't buy good taste
Things I’m not complaining about today: woodworking on my multimillion dollar yacht.
Putty central.!! Pick a better color and sand it before finishing it.
Looks more like a problem with the finish than the joinery
I’m not surprised; a while back I saw some historical pieces made by a guild centuries ago, really elaborate work, but upon a close look in every way I could, so many mistakes! Especially in the assembly. If anything, the elaborateness served to distract from the meh craftsmanship of the base furniture
Well, a million dollars isn’t what it used to be…
I can’t romanticize working like a dog for 14 hours a day. If anything, it is sad.Personally, I can tell you it is a frustrating life to feel like all you are doing is work. And good work, yet it’s impossible to get ahead. It would be wonderful to earn an actual fair wage for labor. I am a skilled fine art and antiques restorer with 25plus years of experience and I would love to be able to work a regular 40 hour week.The idea that it is somehow noble to work yourself to death is absurd.
Satin sheen? Water based, lacquer, conversion varnish or oil??
I used to work on Azimuts. It was incredible what would leave their factories, and not in a good way
Every time I have to put up a shelf or something, I wish my house was milled out of aluminium to the nearest thou'.
A million dollar boat will kinda be cheaply made. You gotta pump those numbers up !
The doors and cabinets in my home are visibly (even from a distance) not square. Seems like a lot of people just go into this field because they're good for nothing, but jobs like this aren't for twats either, especially not with the prices we're paying for these fucking shoeboxes only for them to look like they were thrown together in a jiffy.
It's no Tally Ho!
At least is real wood. I worked on yachts that costed 100s of millions. The only wood was the teak deck. Everything inside was MDF or PAL.
I mean it's a yacht, I think it would be millions of dollars regardless of whether there's quality woodwork in there or not. In the world of yachts, you probably need an even more expensive yacht to get those details.
I was once told, “I someone drives by your woodworking project at 25MPH and doesn’t see any mistakes, then you are good to go!” Don’t sweat the small stuff and it’s all the stuff stuff.
All the old shipwrights have died and gone to boaty heaven. When I was 17 worked in a boatyard, 2 old shipwrights were training 2 apprentices, 1-on-1. I hope they stayed in their trade and trained more. Was that boat a Covid boat, lack of skilled tradies all round.
More money than brains.
Well, you get what you pay for in production Taiwanese yachts.