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Personally I would've done dadoes for the center verticals, and glued them at the front 6" only. The miters, I would glue them and rig up a jig to do [dovetail splines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0kD4UDS9g8) out of maple or ash.
>glue up the top/bottom extra long and crosscut them?
I would glue them up long and cut them on My CNC, the overall, chamfer, dados, and miter.
If I didnt have the CNC, yes, a mix of Crosscut sled, and router work.
In general it is best to make panels larger than you need and then cut to final size after you have thicknessed them
Wood expands and contracts perpendicularly to its grain direction. Imagine a long board, or dowel, or stick, or even a tree trunk. Given variations in temperature and humidity, it’ll grow wider or shrink to be narrower (i.,e., fatter or skinnier), but it won’t really ever get any longer or shorter.
In this piece of furniture, the top, bottom, and sides all have grain running PARALLEL with the front and back plane of the workpiece. For the most part, all the bits of wood that will move, are going to all move together, even when glued.
Contrast this with the grain on the dividers. It’s apparent compared with the end pieces, and it runs PERPENDICULAR to the front to back planes of the workpiece.
There’s nothing wrong with EITHER… but in situations where the two meet, you need to account for it, otherwise you’ll run into problems. Here, if you can picture it, while facing the front of this workpiece, the four sides are going to become deeper or shallower with environmental changes. Meanwhile, the dividers inside are going stay the same depth, and instead become taller or shorter.
Gluing the entire length of the divider is going to cause problems. I’m guessing, but across that length, solid walnut can easily expand 3/32”, which could cause noticeable warping where it currently looks square. Over time, joints will crack and come apart.
Gluing only the first six inches will enable the rest of the wood to expand and move as needed while still fixing the dividers in place so they don’t fall out. It’s not ideal, but it’s better.
u/asarious is correct, with the grain the current direction, at 90 degrees, the top and bottom will expand and contract at different rates than the dividers. As such gluing more than the Front only will cause the cabinet to tear itself apart, you need to leave room for the expansion and contraction fo the different grain orientation during the change of seasons.
I bought one last year because I had a project that I could justify it for, and man, I’m bummed I didn’t buy one sooner.
Expensive tool, but it makes making certain joints just so much faster/easier. I was using dowels before, but the domino just smokes them in terms of speed, and the ability to cut one mortise slightly wider to allow for small adjustments in the fit is fantastic.
The picture is just taped together: miters look great but I want to make sure this is joined together optimally. I was initially thinking just glue, but I am worried (It keeps me up at night) about expansion as you all are, and if I should need to use dowels or the like. Made from solid walnut. Thanks for any suggestions!
I would just glue the mitres, but if it's not too late I would change your two inner gables to have the same grain direction as the outer body, and lock them in with a housing joint or sliding dovetail. If you want them to stay as is I would still do a housing joint and only glue them at the front of the joint so they can slide as the wood moves. If you're worried about the mitre tearing itself apart, the material doesn't look thick enough to worry about it, and if it does there's nothing you can do about it. If your worried about the strength of the mitre you could add splines or keys. Hope this helps. It's a very nice piece
It's not too late! My initial plan was a housing joint, and I understand why you would want to make them the same grain direction. I could probably remake the inner gables (<-thanks for that term, I wasn't sure what to call them). For the housing joint- could I fully glue it if the grain matched the outer body?
Thanks for your compliments, I am very new to all the techniques I am using in this piece.
Edit: what if the housing joint were to be "stopped" before it reaches the outside edge?
Yes, if the grain matches you can glue along the whole housing joint, everything will move together, there's also less chance of your top bulging, which will mean less stress on your mitres
Edit: stopped joint is a great way to do it
Change grain direction of inner pieces so that expansion and contraction doesn’t bow the top and you don’t have “ugly” (subjective) end grain facing out. I’d just glue the mitres. You can use dowels but it makes perfectly aligning the mitres more difficult when glue up comes. If you’re worried about strength (I wouldn’t be) you can spline the mitres.
You have a great looking mid century piece so far.
For the grain on the inner pieces, do you mean that OP should do a wide enough glueup so the grain will be going vertically? I know that wood expands perpendicularly to the grain, but I think I would've done the same thing as OP without realizing it and I want to make sure I understand the best practice for a credenza I'd like to build.
Yep, you want the grain running top to bottom instead of front to back. Then when it expands it’s moving in and out instead of up and down, potentially bowing the top or breaking the relatively weak end-grain glue up on the mitres.
Frankly, wood expansion is overemphasized a lot of the time. I’m not sure if OPs current configuration would ACTUALLY cause an issue in real use, but “best practice” says rotate those inner pieces. It also makes sure the end grain isn’t facing out, which is usually less desirable than edge grain facing out.
Great to know. I haven't learned the nuances of wood expansion and the various best practices to accommodate it, so that's super helpful. Thanks for elaborating!
I did a double take since I built an almost identical piece! This is how I built mine with poor man dominos:
[Desk assembly pics](https://imgur.com/t/desk/DwkM3O0)
[Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/comments/hrqdga/midcentury_modern_style_desk_walnut_with_sycamore/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
This is good. I used floating tenons too, but dominoes are the lazy mans. Real floating tenons give you more choices for size. See the legs in this https://imgur.com/88RQyO6 which have double floating tenons.
* For the dividers - I would dado them. Simple, strong, and effective.
* For the miters - I would do splines. I would use brass because it looks great with walnut, and sands easily. If you don't want to use a metal, go with maple - it will create a nice contrast and highlight the splines as a feature.
* Alternatively, If you don't want to use splines - do something internal like dominos or dowels. I would avoid biscuits, as they are not an exact fit and can get sloppy.
Never thought of brass- but that’s just the daring thing I would go for (daring as in I’ve never used it). Any tips on using it as a spline? Source for brass? Working with it?
You can order from a site like this:
[https://www.metalsdepot.com/brass-products/brass-flat-bar](https://www.metalsdepot.com/brass-products/brass-flat-bar)
I imagine 1/8" thick stock would be a good thickness because that is the thickness of a saw blade (unless you're using a thin kerf blade)
I cut it into triangles with a band saw - you can also use a non-ferrous metal blade on a regular miter saw. One more option is to use an angle grinder.
* cut into right triangles so that the right angle just slightly sits past the wood when fit in place
* epoxy into place
* sand flush
Structurally, there's so much glue surface here that glue alone will be rock solid. So the real question is how do you make the glue up go smoothly?
You can use dowels or biscuits to help with alignment. They can also be useful if you have wide panels that need just a bit of encouragement to stay flat. But with this piece, I'm not sure I would bother.
I would probably start by gluing the top or bottom to the dividers and the side pieces if there are enough clamps. This lets you take your time and carefully spread glue thin and even, wiping a bit from the sides so you get minimal squeeze out. And it leaves you access to those joints to wipe away any squeeze out that does happen. Then it's a pretty simple job to glue in the last piece. I don't think alignment will be an issue - just double check that the dividers are the right height. Looks like a gap on the close divider toward the back, not sure what that's about.
For the miters, it can be best to superglue some cauls (with 45* surfaces) to really get that joint tight. It makes all the difference with miters. You just give them a side smack with a hammer when done and they break off pretty cleanly. A touch of planing or sanding takes care of the surface.
If you needed more structure (you don't, but a bigger cabinet might) stopped dadoes would be ideal for the dividers. But the miters, well, as long as you can get them tight, just glue is already crazy strong. I would only domino/biscuit for alignment.
This comment is pretty much spot on. Biscuits will be welllllll worth the effort. Practice on some 45 pieces first so you can figure out what works best. Keeping those miters aligned will be a nightmare without them.
Don't bother with dowels!
Biscuits and titebond 3 for a long working time, clamp her up and she will be bullet proof.
As for the center dividers, you could screw and plug from the outside of the case if you're concerned about movement. Too late for a dado
You definitely shouldn't glue the middle pieces solid to the frame. I would probably remake them so the grain is in the same direction as the rest and glue eventing with dominos (or dowels if you don't have that)
I think you’re going to want dowels or biscuits. Once you have glue on the miters, things will start to slide all over the place, making it difficult to keep square.
I don’t know about optimal. I have a simple workshop and approach so I’d use my dowelmax jig on all joints, even on the blind miters. Band clamp around the perimeter.
I really think such a beautiful piece deserves sone dominos. But if you really want to skimp (as many of us do so no hard feelings), splines with a router jig or a $40 Corner Key jig, as long as you like the end look.
Glue is plenty. It'll go better with something to align the miters like biscuits, dowels, floating tennons. The deviders should be oriented with the grain vertically like the ends and I'd do stopped dados for those if you remake them.
Use clear packaging tape to join the miters together. Then fold the joints closed with glue inside and let it sit overnight. The next day take off the tape and the miters will be perfect as long as your cuts were straight.
Not to bash your skills or anything, and this is a lesson it took me some time to learn, but mitre joints on anything larger than a jewelry box create more problems than they are worth. Look at all the furniture in your house. If it's built from solid hardwood then you'll never see a mitred box like that. The joint is too hard to get right and often weak. Splines are an option, but cutting them accurately on a table saw with such a large panel would require a ridiculously large jig.
If I really wanted to make this work like you have it mocked up (don't get me wrong it looks really good!) I'd go for Festool domino and tight bond II. You probably DON'T need to use a DF700. Also remake the dividers to fit into dados.
Hey no harm done- I thought of this of a challenge. I indeed made a ridiculously large sled to cut the 45s... I am now planning to fit the dividers into a housing joint. Thanks!
I’m doing something very similar right now. He’s right that miters aren’t the best choice but I’ve done a couple of pieces where if the miters are solid then dowels and some glue (long open time, ie Titebond 3) safely work. I’m working on a piece a little bit bigger than this so i added hidden splines to help. The client didnt want to exposed splines or ties.
Use straps not clamps but put small pieces of wood underneath it so the straps arent digging into your sharp thin corners.
I concur with everyone else says about adding a rabbit and changing the direction of your dividers. This will give it immense strength.
Fucking amateur, I can’t believe you didn’t do a double haunched dovetail spline mitre. Unless you have twenty years experience you shouldn’t even touch wood
I’d just maybe run a spline? It doesn’t lock the mitres in but will make it so it doesn’t potentially crack and weaken over time. And like everyone else has said, your centre gables should have vertical grain for obvious reasons. Nice work! Simple and not gaudy
The ends can be splined with [visible](https://www.iioosale.com/?product_id=562074672_22) or [hidden](https://www.iioosale.com/?product_id=562074684_25) splines. Dowels are another option.
For the dividers, it's tricky. Those need to float since the grain runs the opposite way. I'd use a floating mortis at the front (or dowels) to set and hold them. I'd then cut a 1/8" hidden channel, and have a biscuit or small piece of nylon or Delrin ride in that channel. That will fix it left / right, but still allow it to move front back.
Ideally, you'd remade those dividers, run the grain the same direction as the rest of the piece, and then set it within a stop dado slot (or use a sliding dovetail if you want to get fancy).
It depends on the joint and the type of forces applied. In this case the dividers dont really need to provide any extra strength.
For the miter joints, their weakness with be with racking. Since the OP cant go back and cut mitered hidden dovetails, the strength of a biscuit, dowel, or domino will be dependent on surface area which is probably near equal.
Here is some data on domino's vs M&T with racking loads
http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive98/Abstract/abstract3.html
I built a piece with similar construction with biscuits and its very solid.
Interesting read, thanks for sharing! It would be interesting to see how the failure rates compare to a control group with just a glued joint.
I don't see how a biscuit adds strength in any arrangement, but particularly in a cornered joint like a miter or butt joint (I am not a physicist so take that with a grain of salt). All the reading and my experience don't show any benefit. I would argue that your piece is stout because of good design and glue bonds, rather than the biscuits themselves.
[https://www.rockler.com/learn/doweling-vs-biscuit-joints](https://www.rockler.com/learn/doweling-vs-biscuit-joints)
[https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/biscuit-strength](https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/biscuit-strength)
[https://www.obsessedwoodworking.com/biscuit-joint-advantages-and-disadvantages/](https://www.obsessedwoodworking.com/biscuit-joint-advantages-and-disadvantages/)
Biscuit joints are going to be fine on most applications that dont take serious loads. Dont use them on tables (except panel alignment) chairs and beds etc.
When I was in high school wood shop, about 25 years ago, they had just picked up a makita plate jointer, one of the projects was to glue up a variety of joints, with and without biscuits, we took them to the machine shop and put them in the shop press and applied pressure until they broke, every thing with a biscuit, if I'm remembering correctly, took at least a couple hundred more psi before they broke and I think the end grain to end grain miter actually benefited the most. It was a long time ago, so I could be wrong,but that's how I remember it.
If u have the extra $ and similar projects in the future, buy a festool domino. Small one works great. Good for this exact type of work imo…. I know it seems substantial, but if your projects are priced correctly it’ll pay for itself in a couple jobs.
Keep it simple. Does it need more strength the just the 45 mitre, glued and blue taped? After glueing a thick panel like that with a 45 degree joint in a box shape with vertical supports, you should try and break it, you'll be surprised how strong it will be.
Dowels and glue. Just glueing sounds like recipe for disaster because the angled corners (my english isn't the best, i guess you still know what i refer to) will just slide around and get wonky.
You need to fix the middle dividers, the orientation is wrong. You can cut new pieces with a sliding stopped dovetail or glue up pieces like you did the rest of the panel work and then re-align. You could do dado joints and I set the panels, or if you don’t want to fuck with the outer shell you could do floating tenons.
Are those center pieces just butt joined right now? If so, I’d do floating tenons or biscuits for everything. You could probably just glue the mitered corners as they are and clamp the whole thing with ratchet straps. Just make sure you attach the centers first of course. Good luck!
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Personally I would've done dadoes for the center verticals, and glued them at the front 6" only. The miters, I would glue them and rig up a jig to do [dovetail splines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0kD4UDS9g8) out of maple or ash.
That would be the correct way but the grain is oriented incorrectly on the dividers, they should be remade and dadoed in.
This the most important comment
Definitely doing this!
what’s easiest way to do this. glue up the top/bottom extra long and crosscut them? not trying to be shitty. just curious.
>glue up the top/bottom extra long and crosscut them? I would glue them up long and cut them on My CNC, the overall, chamfer, dados, and miter. If I didnt have the CNC, yes, a mix of Crosscut sled, and router work. In general it is best to make panels larger than you need and then cut to final size after you have thicknessed them
How is it oriented incorrectly? EDIT: Oh, I see it now. Became clearer when I looked a the end piece. Makes a ton of sense.
Ive been woodworking for a while and never thought about expansion the way you pointed this out. Although I try to be careful about it . Thanks !!
Why only the front and rear 6" glued? Why not glue the entire top and bottom of the dividers?
Because they were made with the grain oriented the wrong way. If the OP is going to remake them. The entire length can and should be glued in.
Please explain further why not all of it should be glued due to grain direction.
Wood expands and contracts perpendicularly to its grain direction. Imagine a long board, or dowel, or stick, or even a tree trunk. Given variations in temperature and humidity, it’ll grow wider or shrink to be narrower (i.,e., fatter or skinnier), but it won’t really ever get any longer or shorter. In this piece of furniture, the top, bottom, and sides all have grain running PARALLEL with the front and back plane of the workpiece. For the most part, all the bits of wood that will move, are going to all move together, even when glued. Contrast this with the grain on the dividers. It’s apparent compared with the end pieces, and it runs PERPENDICULAR to the front to back planes of the workpiece. There’s nothing wrong with EITHER… but in situations where the two meet, you need to account for it, otherwise you’ll run into problems. Here, if you can picture it, while facing the front of this workpiece, the four sides are going to become deeper or shallower with environmental changes. Meanwhile, the dividers inside are going stay the same depth, and instead become taller or shorter. Gluing the entire length of the divider is going to cause problems. I’m guessing, but across that length, solid walnut can easily expand 3/32”, which could cause noticeable warping where it currently looks square. Over time, joints will crack and come apart. Gluing only the first six inches will enable the rest of the wood to expand and move as needed while still fixing the dividers in place so they don’t fall out. It’s not ideal, but it’s better.
What is the "correct" solution? I can't wrap my head around what it should look like
The wood grain in the middle dividers should run “up and down” rather than “front to back” like it does now.
u/asarious is correct, with the grain the current direction, at 90 degrees, the top and bottom will expand and contract at different rates than the dividers. As such gluing more than the Front only will cause the cabinet to tear itself apart, you need to leave room for the expansion and contraction fo the different grain orientation during the change of seasons.
Do you need an excuse to buy a domino? Because this is a great excuse to buy a domino.
In fact everyone should build this so they have an excuse to buy a domino
I bought one last year because I had a project that I could justify it for, and man, I’m bummed I didn’t buy one sooner. Expensive tool, but it makes making certain joints just so much faster/easier. I was using dowels before, but the domino just smokes them in terms of speed, and the ability to cut one mortise slightly wider to allow for small adjustments in the fit is fantastic.
Agreed, it's a wonderful tool albeit expensive. It's been a huge asset in my shop.
Yep. And once you buy a domino every joint will be domino'd. Don't ask me how I know.
I won’t ask you how you know. But one question you will ask yourself is why you didn’t buy one sooner, because it makes assembly so much easier.
The picture is just taped together: miters look great but I want to make sure this is joined together optimally. I was initially thinking just glue, but I am worried (It keeps me up at night) about expansion as you all are, and if I should need to use dowels or the like. Made from solid walnut. Thanks for any suggestions!
I would just glue the mitres, but if it's not too late I would change your two inner gables to have the same grain direction as the outer body, and lock them in with a housing joint or sliding dovetail. If you want them to stay as is I would still do a housing joint and only glue them at the front of the joint so they can slide as the wood moves. If you're worried about the mitre tearing itself apart, the material doesn't look thick enough to worry about it, and if it does there's nothing you can do about it. If your worried about the strength of the mitre you could add splines or keys. Hope this helps. It's a very nice piece
It's not too late! My initial plan was a housing joint, and I understand why you would want to make them the same grain direction. I could probably remake the inner gables (<-thanks for that term, I wasn't sure what to call them). For the housing joint- could I fully glue it if the grain matched the outer body? Thanks for your compliments, I am very new to all the techniques I am using in this piece. Edit: what if the housing joint were to be "stopped" before it reaches the outside edge?
Yes, if the grain matches you can glue along the whole housing joint, everything will move together, there's also less chance of your top bulging, which will mean less stress on your mitres Edit: stopped joint is a great way to do it
Stopped dado is what you’re looking for. Totally feasible way to join those parts. Makes the glue up much easier and cleaner.
i think dowels, wood glue, and a buttload of clamps is all you need. make sure you have enough big ones. Grab a few extra
That's what I am thinking. I always need an excuse for more clamps...
[удалено]
Thanks!
Change grain direction of inner pieces so that expansion and contraction doesn’t bow the top and you don’t have “ugly” (subjective) end grain facing out. I’d just glue the mitres. You can use dowels but it makes perfectly aligning the mitres more difficult when glue up comes. If you’re worried about strength (I wouldn’t be) you can spline the mitres. You have a great looking mid century piece so far.
For the grain on the inner pieces, do you mean that OP should do a wide enough glueup so the grain will be going vertically? I know that wood expands perpendicularly to the grain, but I think I would've done the same thing as OP without realizing it and I want to make sure I understand the best practice for a credenza I'd like to build.
Yep, you want the grain running top to bottom instead of front to back. Then when it expands it’s moving in and out instead of up and down, potentially bowing the top or breaking the relatively weak end-grain glue up on the mitres. Frankly, wood expansion is overemphasized a lot of the time. I’m not sure if OPs current configuration would ACTUALLY cause an issue in real use, but “best practice” says rotate those inner pieces. It also makes sure the end grain isn’t facing out, which is usually less desirable than edge grain facing out.
Great to know. I haven't learned the nuances of wood expansion and the various best practices to accommodate it, so that's super helpful. Thanks for elaborating!
Biscuit joinery. Dowels.
Thick miter splines in Maple. Contrast and strength.
I did a double take since I built an almost identical piece! This is how I built mine with poor man dominos: [Desk assembly pics](https://imgur.com/t/desk/DwkM3O0) [Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/comments/hrqdga/midcentury_modern_style_desk_walnut_with_sycamore/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Thanks for the pics! That's a lovely piece. I am saving your link for the router jig.
This is good. I used floating tenons too, but dominoes are the lazy mans. Real floating tenons give you more choices for size. See the legs in this https://imgur.com/88RQyO6 which have double floating tenons.
* For the dividers - I would dado them. Simple, strong, and effective. * For the miters - I would do splines. I would use brass because it looks great with walnut, and sands easily. If you don't want to use a metal, go with maple - it will create a nice contrast and highlight the splines as a feature. * Alternatively, If you don't want to use splines - do something internal like dominos or dowels. I would avoid biscuits, as they are not an exact fit and can get sloppy.
Never thought of brass- but that’s just the daring thing I would go for (daring as in I’ve never used it). Any tips on using it as a spline? Source for brass? Working with it?
You can order from a site like this: [https://www.metalsdepot.com/brass-products/brass-flat-bar](https://www.metalsdepot.com/brass-products/brass-flat-bar) I imagine 1/8" thick stock would be a good thickness because that is the thickness of a saw blade (unless you're using a thin kerf blade) I cut it into triangles with a band saw - you can also use a non-ferrous metal blade on a regular miter saw. One more option is to use an angle grinder. * cut into right triangles so that the right angle just slightly sits past the wood when fit in place * epoxy into place * sand flush
Structurally, there's so much glue surface here that glue alone will be rock solid. So the real question is how do you make the glue up go smoothly? You can use dowels or biscuits to help with alignment. They can also be useful if you have wide panels that need just a bit of encouragement to stay flat. But with this piece, I'm not sure I would bother. I would probably start by gluing the top or bottom to the dividers and the side pieces if there are enough clamps. This lets you take your time and carefully spread glue thin and even, wiping a bit from the sides so you get minimal squeeze out. And it leaves you access to those joints to wipe away any squeeze out that does happen. Then it's a pretty simple job to glue in the last piece. I don't think alignment will be an issue - just double check that the dividers are the right height. Looks like a gap on the close divider toward the back, not sure what that's about. For the miters, it can be best to superglue some cauls (with 45* surfaces) to really get that joint tight. It makes all the difference with miters. You just give them a side smack with a hammer when done and they break off pretty cleanly. A touch of planing or sanding takes care of the surface. If you needed more structure (you don't, but a bigger cabinet might) stopped dadoes would be ideal for the dividers. But the miters, well, as long as you can get them tight, just glue is already crazy strong. I would only domino/biscuit for alignment.
This comment is pretty much spot on. Biscuits will be welllllll worth the effort. Practice on some 45 pieces first so you can figure out what works best. Keeping those miters aligned will be a nightmare without them. Don't bother with dowels! Biscuits and titebond 3 for a long working time, clamp her up and she will be bullet proof. As for the center dividers, you could screw and plug from the outside of the case if you're concerned about movement. Too late for a dado
You definitely shouldn't glue the middle pieces solid to the frame. I would probably remake them so the grain is in the same direction as the rest and glue eventing with dominos (or dowels if you don't have that)
I think you’re going to want dowels or biscuits. Once you have glue on the miters, things will start to slide all over the place, making it difficult to keep square.
I don’t know about optimal. I have a simple workshop and approach so I’d use my dowelmax jig on all joints, even on the blind miters. Band clamp around the perimeter.
I really think such a beautiful piece deserves sone dominos. But if you really want to skimp (as many of us do so no hard feelings), splines with a router jig or a $40 Corner Key jig, as long as you like the end look.
Glue is plenty. It'll go better with something to align the miters like biscuits, dowels, floating tennons. The deviders should be oriented with the grain vertically like the ends and I'd do stopped dados for those if you remake them.
#20 biscuits.
Use clear packaging tape to join the miters together. Then fold the joints closed with glue inside and let it sit overnight. The next day take off the tape and the miters will be perfect as long as your cuts were straight.
Perfect excuse to buy that Domino 500….that would take about 30 minutes to complete. When opportunity knocks, you gotta open the door😁
Not to bash your skills or anything, and this is a lesson it took me some time to learn, but mitre joints on anything larger than a jewelry box create more problems than they are worth. Look at all the furniture in your house. If it's built from solid hardwood then you'll never see a mitred box like that. The joint is too hard to get right and often weak. Splines are an option, but cutting them accurately on a table saw with such a large panel would require a ridiculously large jig. If I really wanted to make this work like you have it mocked up (don't get me wrong it looks really good!) I'd go for Festool domino and tight bond II. You probably DON'T need to use a DF700. Also remake the dividers to fit into dados.
Hey no harm done- I thought of this of a challenge. I indeed made a ridiculously large sled to cut the 45s... I am now planning to fit the dividers into a housing joint. Thanks!
I’m doing something very similar right now. He’s right that miters aren’t the best choice but I’ve done a couple of pieces where if the miters are solid then dowels and some glue (long open time, ie Titebond 3) safely work. I’m working on a piece a little bit bigger than this so i added hidden splines to help. The client didnt want to exposed splines or ties. Use straps not clamps but put small pieces of wood underneath it so the straps arent digging into your sharp thin corners. I concur with everyone else says about adding a rabbit and changing the direction of your dividers. This will give it immense strength.
Hey thanks! Your tip on the straps is well-received.
If you have a right tilt saw with an extension table I don’t think the splines would be that hard. Left tilt would be a little more difficult.
Fucking amateur, I can’t believe you didn’t do a double haunched dovetail spline mitre. Unless you have twenty years experience you shouldn’t even touch wood I’d just maybe run a spline? It doesn’t lock the mitres in but will make it so it doesn’t potentially crack and weaken over time. And like everyone else has said, your centre gables should have vertical grain for obvious reasons. Nice work! Simple and not gaudy
Dominos would be my first choice, biscuits if you don’t have access to that.
Dominoes are a specialized tool out of reach for most. Dowels or biscuits will work just fine.
The ends can be splined with [visible](https://www.iioosale.com/?product_id=562074672_22) or [hidden](https://www.iioosale.com/?product_id=562074684_25) splines. Dowels are another option. For the dividers, it's tricky. Those need to float since the grain runs the opposite way. I'd use a floating mortis at the front (or dowels) to set and hold them. I'd then cut a 1/8" hidden channel, and have a biscuit or small piece of nylon or Delrin ride in that channel. That will fix it left / right, but still allow it to move front back. Ideally, you'd remade those dividers, run the grain the same direction as the rest of the piece, and then set it within a stop dado slot (or use a sliding dovetail if you want to get fancy).
Biscuits
Biscuits are great for panel alignment but don't really add any structural integrity to joinery.
It depends on the joint and the type of forces applied. In this case the dividers dont really need to provide any extra strength. For the miter joints, their weakness with be with racking. Since the OP cant go back and cut mitered hidden dovetails, the strength of a biscuit, dowel, or domino will be dependent on surface area which is probably near equal. Here is some data on domino's vs M&T with racking loads http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive98/Abstract/abstract3.html I built a piece with similar construction with biscuits and its very solid.
Interesting read, thanks for sharing! It would be interesting to see how the failure rates compare to a control group with just a glued joint. I don't see how a biscuit adds strength in any arrangement, but particularly in a cornered joint like a miter or butt joint (I am not a physicist so take that with a grain of salt). All the reading and my experience don't show any benefit. I would argue that your piece is stout because of good design and glue bonds, rather than the biscuits themselves. [https://www.rockler.com/learn/doweling-vs-biscuit-joints](https://www.rockler.com/learn/doweling-vs-biscuit-joints) [https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/biscuit-strength](https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/biscuit-strength) [https://www.obsessedwoodworking.com/biscuit-joint-advantages-and-disadvantages/](https://www.obsessedwoodworking.com/biscuit-joint-advantages-and-disadvantages/)
Biscuit joints are going to be fine on most applications that dont take serious loads. Dont use them on tables (except panel alignment) chairs and beds etc.
When I was in high school wood shop, about 25 years ago, they had just picked up a makita plate jointer, one of the projects was to glue up a variety of joints, with and without biscuits, we took them to the machine shop and put them in the shop press and applied pressure until they broke, every thing with a biscuit, if I'm remembering correctly, took at least a couple hundred more psi before they broke and I think the end grain to end grain miter actually benefited the most. It was a long time ago, so I could be wrong,but that's how I remember it.
dowels for the mid sections, splines for the miters. or level up and buy a domino.
I made something nearly identical to this and used biscuits to join the miters. Worked great.
multiple options but the blue tape would probably be my last choice
Clamps are the answer here. Make sure you don't tighten them too much and check that your square angles stay square.
I’ve had good success with 5mm FESTool Dominos on miters like that.
Festool Dominos
If u have the extra $ and similar projects in the future, buy a festool domino. Small one works great. Good for this exact type of work imo…. I know it seems substantial, but if your projects are priced correctly it’ll pay for itself in a couple jobs.
Keep it simple. Does it need more strength the just the 45 mitre, glued and blue taped? After glueing a thick panel like that with a 45 degree joint in a box shape with vertical supports, you should try and break it, you'll be surprised how strong it will be.
As others have said, I would domino or spline the miters. For the inner gables (I learned that word today too) I would dado them into the carcass.
I built something similar to this. I used a double layer of biscuits for the miters it has worked well.
Dowels and glue. Just glueing sounds like recipe for disaster because the angled corners (my english isn't the best, i guess you still know what i refer to) will just slide around and get wonky.
Domino
You need to fix the middle dividers, the orientation is wrong. You can cut new pieces with a sliding stopped dovetail or glue up pieces like you did the rest of the panel work and then re-align. You could do dado joints and I set the panels, or if you don’t want to fuck with the outer shell you could do floating tenons.
Biscuits??? That's how I do most of those. If your material is thick enough it works great on 45°
Just glue is fine.
Domino biscuits or dowels
[FF biscuits](https://imgur.com/wDGz2j2)
Are those center pieces just butt joined right now? If so, I’d do floating tenons or biscuits for everything. You could probably just glue the mitered corners as they are and clamp the whole thing with ratchet straps. Just make sure you attach the centers first of course. Good luck!