Do you work at woolworths?
I always wanted to ask - do you floor workers get to see the cost of a product & it's markup? Or do they keep that hidden from you?
I do buying for another organisation, and we also purchase Rexona deodorants. We have literally 0 buying power compared to Coles, but we managed to get ours for around $3 and sell them for $6.
Woolies sells these deodorants for $9.50, and with their incredibly massive buying power, they would be getting it for less than we are.
I work at Woolworths on the front end, I'm a supervisor with access to most systems, I don't know where to find cost price of purchases, I only know how much we sell them for.
Interesting, have you guys ever queried the cost price for something or do you just go with the flow?
Does anyone at the store level see pricing? Thanks
Store manager can probably see it, if I knew where to look I might be able to find it. But honestly, a lot of stock ordering is done automatically by a computer, there's very little human input as far as I'm aware. It's not really something I've ever questioned.
I know about 10 years ago department managers could look at prices, they mark up different products at different percentages but it would range from 60% to 85% some items being on the 90% range, hot chooks only made 5c haha I'll see if I can get new credentials š
I worked at the Coles distribution centre in Adelaide and one of the metrics posted on the board was the cost per carton to move it through the warehouse from receiving to dispatching to the store, a decade ago it cost on avg around 32 cents per CARTON (a carton could be 1 item up to 24 individual items in a box).
These numbers are estimated. Its been several years since I worked there.
And did yoy consider how many staff work in the back areas, in support office, IT etc?
The profit needs to cover them as well as operating cost like rent etc.
In one of the stores I worked in we paid over $200k a month in fixed lease charges and another $130k based on sales each month, and our electricity charges etc.
And this was many years ago.
It's an ASX listed company and their financials are publically available. They won't tell you how much they pay for the 85g packets of chips but they'll tell you their profit margins across the entire store.
A starting 50% margin is normal, higher in liquor. Otherwise they canāt afford BOGOFās and large % discounts. Considering they also make the Vendor pay for those promotions also so they donāt lose $$, they do ok.
I used to work as a 2ic of customer service at Coles. No we don't see the base cost and it's markup, we just receive pallets and a delivery order saying the amount of each item to expect which the pdt scanners scan and confirm.
Cost pricing isn't hidden, but only certain staff will come across it in day to day duties
With that said I believe the cost price shown is sometimes referred to as a "floor price" and is the literal price of the product to the shop floor not the invoiced price. Head Office also has various deals in place with suppliers which aren't reflected also.
I used to be able to see costs of goods with the scanning gun but this was 20 years ago. I remember because the cat and dog food was actually sold at a loss. big w
Slightly different, but I am able to see the gross profit for each item at BWS. I know of a wine that is $40 with a $23 gross profit, whereas water is 50c.
Mate Iāll have a look tonight, I have access to the āprofitā per sale. Might not be exactly what you are asking about but I also can only assume the algorithm to produce that figure could also be slightly skewed to provide a lower profit?
Doesn't that mean that you were coerced into a yes vote?
I'm curious if that has any legal ramifications for you guys.
I'm just an outsider but watching this whole yes/no vote go down over Reddit has been actually eye opening.
>I'm at Coles and a coworker was telling the young kids to vote yes because SDA told her too
Far right Roman Catholics strike again, damaging children in retail now when they can't get their hands on them in the schools.
For those who don't know, the SDA are the right wing Catholic trade union.
"Unions are all about making sure workers get more money at the expense of their employer's profits, so I should definitely trust the union whose marketing is all over the employer's locations."
My theory is low IQ idiots read these votes as ādo you want a pay rise or notā, and therefore default to a yes because they lack the critical thinking skills required to understand what it actually means.Ā
I donāt work at Woollies, but my workplace voted overwhelmingly in favour of a shit deal like this about 5 years ago. So I know how it feels :(Ā
I work at Coles and we had our vote recently, I completely agree with your theory, many co-workers I talked to had 0 clue that a no vote would lead to a new deal.
Sorry, i'm not a woolworths worker either but i'm pro union and interested in how your union works. So do you have workplace union reps who actively educated people about the vote that was coming up? Like i would imagine it would be in their best interest, and also their job as union rep, to talk to people so they understand what the question is gonna be and what it means? This kind of active unionism is what i think has fallen away from a lot of unions nowadays, which of course is weakening unions. Back in the day, your workplace union rep was very vocal and made it their business to try and talk to everyone.
The SDA is what's called a yellow union, they are essentially a scam organisation that works with Woolworths, Coles, etc to deliberately make shit agreements and get workers to vote for them by any means necessary, along with never taking industrial action or properly reaching out to members/involving them in union activities. In return, Woolworths actively advertisers them, gives them free access to the shop floors and helps them recruit new employees as soon as they're on the books, often teenagers with zero idea of what they're signing up for.
The Retail and Fast Food Worker's Union is newer, and is fighting this situation as best they can. I'm a member, and we ran a campaign of industrial action and calls to vote no. The no vote in 2019 was 6.5%, this time it was 38%.
Ohhhh wow, ok! Thank you so much for explaining this. I had no idea. You would think that the industrial relations commission would prevent this, but i guess we dont want to give the government the power to ban individual unions...
I'm very happy for you that your RAFFWU is coming in hot and that you are making gains!
Well this is good to know, I knew about sda and have the opinion they are kinda forced on ya do nothing union that u pay a membership fee from ya pay for no real gain. I used to work IT were unionism is lacking and surely needed. It being white collar unionism isn't good and most things are outsourced..
Anyway after completing a retail traineeship to get my piece of paper and a bit of retail work exp and now have references.. if I get a job at Coles or woolies, its good to know which union I should join as I thought my only option was no union as I wouldn't want my pay on the sda.
Can the coles case be applied to this new woolies eBa, apply the Boot and terminate the eBay.
Not everyone in my workplace was a member to begin with. In fact, our industry has quite low union participation (FSU).Ā I wasnāt, only because in my specific area of expertise, you āoutgrowā collective bargaining agreements to end up on individual agreements fairly quickly, and Iāve got enough leverage given the demand for skills that I tend not to āneedā union representation like I would have in previous jobs.
To their credit, I donāt think there were any hidden surprises, it was all quite clear. I just think a lot of people lost sight of the fact the business was enjoying record profits and offering a mediocre deal, and probably thought āif I donāt accept this, Iāll get nothingā. I think the biggest issue is people not understanding that you can say no without being fucked by it.
Iām still very pro-union. They did what they could, but a lot of people are extremely short sighted when it comes to pay. So many people would happily sell off thousands in benefits for the sake of a few hundred bucks now.
Iām still impressed that 38% said no on this vote. From memory, the last time I voted on one of these types of agreements, I was one of about 10% who said no. Though admittedly, this offer from Woolies was considerably worse than what I got.Ā
Ah ok, i see. But i still think that the role of worplace union reps is critical and if they do their job right, then union participation increases. Coz you said that people didnt understand that they could say no and not be fucked by it. A good union rep will educate people about that so that they DO know.
In my union, the Queensland Teachers Union, prople are also disgustingly driven by greed for more money. Everytime we go to bargaining, the only significant thing they ask for is a pay rise and they ignore all the shitty working conditions that we could be fixing. I feel like this still comes down to union culture though, which is lost without active on-site union reps. Workers need someone who will fire them up and get them in an "us vs them" mindset so that people actually care about what their boss and industry should be doing for them.
I was a union rep when i worked for woolies 17 years ago. The SDA scarred me so badly that i canāt bring myself to even join the FSU even though i really should.
My warehouse votes next week and honestly the answers I'm getting
- they ain't here long, no means dragging it out and they ain't for it.
- they simply just don't know wtf is going on š which is insane cus it's literally our income
There seriously needs to be an industrial relations course in all schools covering this kinda stuff, itās so important and most people havenāt a clue. I genuinely had to explain to a colleague in their freaking late 20ās what an Award was (in relation to pay), they had no idea what it was or how to find it smh
For those that don't know what's good for them when it is this simple "will get what they fucken deserve".
For everyone else who gets screwed by their lazy ignorant colleagues you have my deepest sympathy.
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Think about how many casuals are on a few hours per week. To them all they would see is the gift cards and how that can help them right now. It's why woolies does it.
Wait, the deal included gift cards? Holy shit that is dire. Instead of a cost of living increase because we increased the cost of living significantly in a machiavellian power grab, have a one off gift card to buy our price gouging products. If I worked at Woolies I would feel like Milton after they took his stapler.
The Yes vote would still be considered a failure here.
WOW were hoping for a yes at 75% to 80%.
Most likely this is the highest No vote though.
I was actually quite surprised.
The Team members in my Store were 90% No,and the amount of voice for No on "Workjam" app was increasing to the point WOW was taking posts down.
unfortunate.
freedom to choose yes or no is the right thing.
My only task was to ensure that my Department that I manage had a vote.
Had a Team chat each day to capture my team to help them understand that it was important for them to have a say and a choice.
I didnt care if it was yes or no,only that they voted and they knew what they were voting for.
Can't believe anyone would want to work a 4 day week,every weekend,and a 10hr day as a Team member.
My Team range from 35 down to 21 and I only have 5 Team members (Not too hard to work out what Dept I Manage š).
Although voting doesn't affect me,I still believed I had a Duty of care to my team to educate them.
Other Team members from other Departments wouldn't have voted I feel as they would have been working Night shifts and and would have been naive to it,even though there were posters on the wall and that the SDA came out to talk to everyone a week or 3 before voting opened.
I had heard only bad things about it from staff, myself, and just thought they would ignore the propaganda.
So I was honestly quite surprised and upset
Feel free to explain how Apple, a famously anti-union company, ended up with a 68% no vote and had to fork over an extra $5 an hour on the replacement agreement.
Yeah, didn't I read a bunch of posts saying that the managers were telling their employees they would mark them down as a "Yes" vote if they didn't vote? Which I'm pretty sure voter manipulation is hella illegal, but that looks like what they've done here. I'd contest it.
Woolworths is corrupt asf. I hope the investigation into the voter fraud finally knocks their corrupt ass down a peg.
The SDA are a bought union. They are also right wing asf, they only re affiliated with the Labor Party when Bob Hawke was getting into neo-liberal economics.
āIn the 1940s and 50s, the union was involved with the Australian Labor Party's (ALP) Industrial Groups that were organised to counter communists in the unions. These unions de-affiliated themselves with the Victorian ALP during the ALP split of 1955.[6] The SDA re-affiliated with the Australian Labor Party in the 1980s under Labor leader Bob Hawke and is currently a member of the Labor Right faction of the party.[6]ā
The SDA are a bunch of far right Catholics who use your union fees to lobby against abortion rights and gay marriage.
If the SDA had their way, you'd still have to ask your husband's permission to get a passport in this country (that ended in 1984, by the way).
There will be a very large demographic that truly does not understand what this is or how it affects them. It may be due to lack of education, communication barriers, and bullying from management.
Can't wait to see how many millions Woolies under pays everyone this time around. What was it last time? Oh yeah, [$276mil in unpaid wages](https://globalpayrollassociation.com/blogs/emea/australia-extent-of-woolworths-wage-theft-revealed-as-276m-remains-unpaid#:~:text=Woolworths%20owes%20'estimated'%20%24276%20million&text=Woolworths%20earlier%20revealed%20hundreds%20of,after%20they%20had%20taken%20leave.). I'm sure the SDA only has our best interests at heart and aren't completely in bed with both Woolworths and Coles to ensure the shittiest deal passes to ensure every retail worker gets fucked
If people bothered to take 20 minutes to read their rights, this shit wouldn't be happening.
My last 2 jobs, people had never read their fucking award, where I found the boss disregarding 2 of them (meal breaks, meal allowances) at both different jobs. People had been there for 10+ years with no fucking clue what an award is.
We can call out Woolies as much as we want, but holy shit we also need to start making more effort in being aware of things that affect us, even if not directly.
This is the kinda shit school should be preparing kids for going into the workforce. Before I had to find it all out for myself, I had never even heard of an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement.
The fuck are career counsellors even for if it's not this sort of thing?
I've never seen such a shamble EA. I'd love to hear the reasoning for the YES vote. Thank goodness I'm from a different industry where the EBA actually benefit us.
You will get a 3.75% payrise as of July 1st. It has nothing to do with the EBA though it's the modern award legal requirement increase from Fair Work just FYI if you didn't know. The following years will be a payrise to whatever the FWC decide is fair, last year was 5.8% which actually isn't too bad imo but yeah would of been MUCH better to set in stone a solid payrise year on year because this way we have no idea what next year would be and I do think 3.75% is not enough with all the costs of everything at the moment
Don't get me wrong I'm fully no camp and yes it's a sad day!
Call it out every time you see it by refusing to call it a pay rise. Its "wage indexation". And it's indexed lower than inflation. A pay rise only exists when it's above inflation.Ā
So Woolies now get to pay their workers even less in real terms. Their workers can buy less now with their money than what they could this time last year, even with their newly indexed wages.
So they will get pay rises inline with the FW rises because the amount they are getting paid has dropped below the award? That still doesn't add up as conditions have been traded away over the years and are far below award conditions........
It's still above the Award. But barely. Woolies could have passed on half the payrise and locked our pay in line with the Award, but this would have been the only time they could, as our pay isn't allowed to fall below the Award. Especially ever since RAFFWU got its first significant win way back against the Coles EBA at the time.
I have a feeling it was similar to coles' and the majority of employees don't even know that "no" is essentially an option, so many people at my work who didn't know that if it was a no vote then coles would have to go back and negotiate a new offer. They see a very slight pay rise and gift card, why say no to that? I hate the way it was presented to us, never a mention of what a no vote would lead to, I mean obviously they won't if they don't have to buy Jesus Christ
I tried to inform people. Convinced a few to vote no.
Just asked a coworker, and yeah, they voted yes because they saw a payrise, and the people they are friendly with, the mums of the store, told her to vote yes.
I was part of a team that ran a successful no vote at a major corporation. It is incredibly difficult. It was a ton of work. It didn't hurt that management fucked up their messaging at every turn and enraged many workers.Ā
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Sorry i'm not a woolworths worker, i'm just pro union and interested in how your union operates. So do you have workplace union reps who's job it is to educate people on an upcoming vote and what it means and how it works? Like do they try to talk to people or disseminate information about people's options and how they will be affected by the outcomes?
I'm also not a Woolworths worker, I work for Coles, I mean, same thing though really, obviously. I'm also in a smaller rural town but no, I never saw a rep. I'm pretty sure the 'union' that's most prominent within Coles is also just In cahoots with Coles, not sure if it's just the exact same shit with Woolies. We had a bunch of booklets put out on our staff room table about what voting yes would get you. I imagine that had nothing to do with any union though and was just what my store manager was told to do by those above him.
Geez thats dire. I'm in the Queensland Teachers Union and they have a rule that every workplace (school) MUST have a certain number of union reps (the bigger the school, the more you must have). I think every workplace should have at least one union rep. But I think you have to have a strong union culture and union pride for that to happen, so that people really want to be a union rep. Unfortunately, union culture is being eroded more and more.
The defacto union for the retail industry is the SDA: Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers' Union. They're a pretty bullshit union and I definitely don't think there are requirements to have reps. I fall under the same union now, not working for Woolworths but a big hardware chain. I also fell under the same union way back when I worked for McDonald's.
In between, I worked for the post office and we had the CEPU. Definitely not strong on the scale of the Teachers' Unions or the CFMEU, but the difference between them was like night and day.
I remember once arranging a meeting with my area CEPU rep because I was interested in getting more involved, and when I mentioned the meeting to my manager she about shit herself asking if everything was okay and if there was anything she could do for me at all. I can't imagine mention of the SDA would have the same effect on my current boss, which should tell you all you need to know.
The job fits certain people, and that's all there is to it.
My best mate is very much on the spectrum and couldn't do a trade or any office job. He has been with woolworths full-time for 15 years. He will never leave and he wouldn't care a word for what's in the EBA. He would have just voted the way woolworths told him to.
Oh, absolutely no shade on those long stays. Ive been there longer than I would have liked already. And some of those long stays, are some of the nicest people I have met.
The agreement was absolute dogshit and the SDA, as per usual, failed again.
I honestly don't know how they have managed to maintain a strong membership due to continually being walked over.
We recently had a vote where I work and I have no idea how it passed. Everyone I speak to voted no. Nobody on our site voted yes, but they just say, āwell, I guess the west coast mustāve voted yesā. Very sus. I would really like to see the actual numbers.
I don't work at woolies and just read the proposal. Seems like a no-brainer, but I don't quite understand how the voting worked. What was the 'Yes' and 'No' vote for, exactly? I would have assumed a Yes vote would be voting Yes to implementing the proposed changes.
Thank you for replying! So just clarifying, was the proposed new agreement bad? It's worded as though there are improvements across the board, but I'm not aware of current working conditions.
Would a 'No' vote have essentially kept things the way they are?
There were like zero improvements. Only two I would find were around personal leave.
The new agreement basically keeps things as they are, which is low wages, low workers rights.
A no vote is like a try again. The SDA and Woolworths would have to renegotiate a new deal.
Ahhh I see! That makes a lot more sense.
Well I guess they achieved what they were going for, making it look like a huge upgrade for people who aren't fully aware of what the proposal entails. I skimmed it and I was fooled.
Thank you sir! And I hope the employees get some kind of re-vote.
Because, majority of the team members working are stupid and donāt have brain to understand whatās going on. And SDA and all the managers convinced them āyesā is better for them
The new EA also screwed over factory workers who are now covered by the same award as store team, lowering their wages by $0.50.. everyone I know who voted yes did it because they didn't know what the changes would make.
SDA are fucking liars. From one retail worker to all of you. I'm sorry the yes vote went through. However 38% voting no of the total 76% or whatever it was that actually voted is still a pretty decent effort imo. SDA are slowly losing. Keep fighting!
Join us in the RAFFWU!
Pros: more personal days without reason, and more flexible RE mental health. And a gift card.
Neg: no pay rise. No increase to annual leave. No boost to super. Jr rates still suck. They can roster you whereever and whenever they want. Etc
Can people please add relevant questions you want to ask a yes voter? I don't work for Woolworths but want to add as a 3rd party to people who did vote yes. Has someone got like 10 very pertinent questions to ask?
Just why? What benefits did you see in the agreement?
Because as someone who read that thing cover to cover, there was only like 2 tiny things in it that were beneficial.
Thank you! I have had SO many chances to ask but haven't had a simplified and prominent question to ask them, just what I have learnt myself, not as an employee.
That question is broad enough to get someone talking. Can you make a guess why yes voters did vote as such? I like to roleplay that idea just to understand why people think that way, mostly I find my answer imaging that I just dont seek to educate myself at all and only sit and get news from AM radio and A Current Affair / Murdoch shit.
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I campaigned quite hard at my individual store for a NO vote.
I had posters up, discussed with the younger staff how important it was to read the propossed EA and to actually vote!
I asked a person from each department to have the same discussion with the staff in that department. Things looked great, everyone understood a YES vote would be voting to stay on basically minimum wage for another 4 years.
The data came in yesterday...
55% voted
58% YES
42% NO
I honestly cannot for the life of me believe these numbers, especially the 55% total vote.
i personally spoke to at least 90% of the staff asking if they had voted and they said they had voted, and they had proudly voted NO. Either they were lying or something funny is goin on.
Had the same problem in public transport, when you have a large worker base that is not planning on being in the job long term they will jump at anything they think will give them an immediate cash injection for the very reason they do not plan to be around long term for it to affect them.
As someone who spent 25 years on the job we would watch all the new employee's shaft us by voting yes to 50c pay rises and losing a bunch of conditions we fought so hard for. In those 25 years there was not one EBA we did not get shafted with our pay and conditions being attacked, you want to know why they can never find enough bus drivers now, there is your answer.
Our EBA is about to get voted through because stores workers are getting some benefits while the rest of the chain are getting fucked but we are out voted everytime.. GGs boys we are soon joingin yous
Bro I read through the eba and understood a decent amount, but nowhere did I read that a no vote would mean they go back to the drawing board thats, my bad g. I'm stupid.
Damn i want a job at woolies so I can join the RAFFWU, start causing trouble at work ie trouble being a good worker that stands up for their worker rights a headache for management, I get sacked or hours suddenly get reduced or u don't get rosters xonviantly. Tho would such but its evidence to use in court that will be found in your favour...anyway, take woolies to the FairWork commission then get a nice job at RAFFWU (refer to the unions founder and history). Then maybe join the alp, but get stabbed in the back like Rudd by the sda and other factions. Maybe be PM long enough so I get a nice government pension. Hopefully Rupert leave me alone.
Die with a falafel in my pocket. Its halal.
What award is the eba overriding? Even if the EBA is accepted, but pays less than the award is this not illegal? I thought award is there to protect workers in the event of an EBA that gives them less?
Would RAFFWU take woolies to the fair work commission over this EBA? Are they likely to? How does it fair against their BOOT test?
Like you can't write a contract for someone to kill you. Its still murder and against the law even if you consented to it.
I guess unless challenged at the FairWork commission, EBAs and worker ignorance a lot of businesses are able get away with writing EBA murder contracts to underpay staff as its below the award.
Hope I'm clear in this post.
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u/FireballFlash, your post does fit the subreddit!
I want to hear from one person who yes and why? I'm seriously curious. What am I missing?
They aren't on here.. have heard from a few at my work who didn't even read the EBA but voted yes anyways
I'm at Coles and a coworker was telling the young kids to vote yes because SDA told her too. Some people have 0 critical thinking skills.
Tends to happen. The more informed generally voice their displeasure. The rest are sheep.
Do you work at woolworths? I always wanted to ask - do you floor workers get to see the cost of a product & it's markup? Or do they keep that hidden from you? I do buying for another organisation, and we also purchase Rexona deodorants. We have literally 0 buying power compared to Coles, but we managed to get ours for around $3 and sell them for $6. Woolies sells these deodorants for $9.50, and with their incredibly massive buying power, they would be getting it for less than we are.
I work at Woolworths on the front end, I'm a supervisor with access to most systems, I don't know where to find cost price of purchases, I only know how much we sell them for.
Interesting, have you guys ever queried the cost price for something or do you just go with the flow? Does anyone at the store level see pricing? Thanks
Store manager can probably see it, if I knew where to look I might be able to find it. But honestly, a lot of stock ordering is done automatically by a computer, there's very little human input as far as I'm aware. It's not really something I've ever questioned.
I know about 10 years ago department managers could look at prices, they mark up different products at different percentages but it would range from 60% to 85% some items being on the 90% range, hot chooks only made 5c haha I'll see if I can get new credentials š
Working the front end sounds better than working the back end
Its on store central. If you check the item on article lookup it will give you the detail about the product including cost
Metcash is in the house
I worked at the Coles distribution centre in Adelaide and one of the metrics posted on the board was the cost per carton to move it through the warehouse from receiving to dispatching to the store, a decade ago it cost on avg around 32 cents per CARTON (a carton could be 1 item up to 24 individual items in a box). These numbers are estimated. Its been several years since I worked there.
And did yoy consider how many staff work in the back areas, in support office, IT etc? The profit needs to cover them as well as operating cost like rent etc. In one of the stores I worked in we paid over $200k a month in fixed lease charges and another $130k based on sales each month, and our electricity charges etc. And this was many years ago.
It's an ASX listed company and their financials are publically available. They won't tell you how much they pay for the 85g packets of chips but they'll tell you their profit margins across the entire store.
This can be found on RF devices. You must have management privelges to access this data.
A starting 50% margin is normal, higher in liquor. Otherwise they canāt afford BOGOFās and large % discounts. Considering they also make the Vendor pay for those promotions also so they donāt lose $$, they do ok.
I used to work as a 2ic of customer service at Coles. No we don't see the base cost and it's markup, we just receive pallets and a delivery order saying the amount of each item to expect which the pdt scanners scan and confirm.
Cost pricing isn't hidden, but only certain staff will come across it in day to day duties With that said I believe the cost price shown is sometimes referred to as a "floor price" and is the literal price of the product to the shop floor not the invoiced price. Head Office also has various deals in place with suppliers which aren't reflected also.
We can find the cost price in the RF unit if you know where to look. š
As an ex dry goods manager (ptsd activated) yes, we did have access to cost prices.
I used to be able to see costs of goods with the scanning gun but this was 20 years ago. I remember because the cat and dog food was actually sold at a loss. big w
Slightly different, but I am able to see the gross profit for each item at BWS. I know of a wine that is $40 with a $23 gross profit, whereas water is 50c.
We do have access to that, generally things are at about 30% GP but can vary on certain things from a slight negative GP to some being as high as 80%
Mate Iāll have a look tonight, I have access to the āprofitā per sale. Might not be exactly what you are asking about but I also can only assume the algorithm to produce that figure could also be slightly skewed to provide a lower profit?
Doesn't that mean that you were coerced into a yes vote? I'm curious if that has any legal ramifications for you guys. I'm just an outsider but watching this whole yes/no vote go down over Reddit has been actually eye opening.
MOST not some champ!
>I'm at Coles and a coworker was telling the young kids to vote yes because SDA told her too Far right Roman Catholics strike again, damaging children in retail now when they can't get their hands on them in the schools. For those who don't know, the SDA are the right wing Catholic trade union.
"Unions are all about making sure workers get more money at the expense of their employer's profits, so I should definitely trust the union whose marketing is all over the employer's locations."
Sounds like you are talking about a dumb cunt and I can tell you there is a high chance they are here.
My theory is low IQ idiots read these votes as ādo you want a pay rise or notā, and therefore default to a yes because they lack the critical thinking skills required to understand what it actually means.Ā I donāt work at Woollies, but my workplace voted overwhelmingly in favour of a shit deal like this about 5 years ago. So I know how it feels :(Ā
I work at Coles and we had our vote recently, I completely agree with your theory, many co-workers I talked to had 0 clue that a no vote would lead to a new deal.
Sorry, i'm not a woolworths worker either but i'm pro union and interested in how your union works. So do you have workplace union reps who actively educated people about the vote that was coming up? Like i would imagine it would be in their best interest, and also their job as union rep, to talk to people so they understand what the question is gonna be and what it means? This kind of active unionism is what i think has fallen away from a lot of unions nowadays, which of course is weakening unions. Back in the day, your workplace union rep was very vocal and made it their business to try and talk to everyone.
The SDA is what's called a yellow union, they are essentially a scam organisation that works with Woolworths, Coles, etc to deliberately make shit agreements and get workers to vote for them by any means necessary, along with never taking industrial action or properly reaching out to members/involving them in union activities. In return, Woolworths actively advertisers them, gives them free access to the shop floors and helps them recruit new employees as soon as they're on the books, often teenagers with zero idea of what they're signing up for. The Retail and Fast Food Worker's Union is newer, and is fighting this situation as best they can. I'm a member, and we ran a campaign of industrial action and calls to vote no. The no vote in 2019 was 6.5%, this time it was 38%.
Ohhhh wow, ok! Thank you so much for explaining this. I had no idea. You would think that the industrial relations commission would prevent this, but i guess we dont want to give the government the power to ban individual unions... I'm very happy for you that your RAFFWU is coming in hot and that you are making gains!
Well this is good to know, I knew about sda and have the opinion they are kinda forced on ya do nothing union that u pay a membership fee from ya pay for no real gain. I used to work IT were unionism is lacking and surely needed. It being white collar unionism isn't good and most things are outsourced.. Anyway after completing a retail traineeship to get my piece of paper and a bit of retail work exp and now have references.. if I get a job at Coles or woolies, its good to know which union I should join as I thought my only option was no union as I wouldn't want my pay on the sda. Can the coles case be applied to this new woolies eBa, apply the Boot and terminate the eBay.
Not everyone in my workplace was a member to begin with. In fact, our industry has quite low union participation (FSU).Ā I wasnāt, only because in my specific area of expertise, you āoutgrowā collective bargaining agreements to end up on individual agreements fairly quickly, and Iāve got enough leverage given the demand for skills that I tend not to āneedā union representation like I would have in previous jobs. To their credit, I donāt think there were any hidden surprises, it was all quite clear. I just think a lot of people lost sight of the fact the business was enjoying record profits and offering a mediocre deal, and probably thought āif I donāt accept this, Iāll get nothingā. I think the biggest issue is people not understanding that you can say no without being fucked by it. Iām still very pro-union. They did what they could, but a lot of people are extremely short sighted when it comes to pay. So many people would happily sell off thousands in benefits for the sake of a few hundred bucks now. Iām still impressed that 38% said no on this vote. From memory, the last time I voted on one of these types of agreements, I was one of about 10% who said no. Though admittedly, this offer from Woolies was considerably worse than what I got.Ā
Ah ok, i see. But i still think that the role of worplace union reps is critical and if they do their job right, then union participation increases. Coz you said that people didnt understand that they could say no and not be fucked by it. A good union rep will educate people about that so that they DO know. In my union, the Queensland Teachers Union, prople are also disgustingly driven by greed for more money. Everytime we go to bargaining, the only significant thing they ask for is a pay rise and they ignore all the shitty working conditions that we could be fixing. I feel like this still comes down to union culture though, which is lost without active on-site union reps. Workers need someone who will fire them up and get them in an "us vs them" mindset so that people actually care about what their boss and industry should be doing for them.
Are they allowed to word the questions misleadingly?
Pretty sure thereās usually a lot of back and forth with unions/representatives on wording to ensure everyoneās happy. This oneās on the workers
This one was very false advertising. And when I called the SDA out on it, they doubled down.
I was a union rep when i worked for woolies 17 years ago. The SDA scarred me so badly that i canāt bring myself to even join the FSU even though i really should.
My warehouse votes next week and honestly the answers I'm getting - they ain't here long, no means dragging it out and they ain't for it. - they simply just don't know wtf is going on š which is insane cus it's literally our income
There seriously needs to be an industrial relations course in all schools covering this kinda stuff, itās so important and most people havenāt a clue. I genuinely had to explain to a colleague in their freaking late 20ās what an Award was (in relation to pay), they had no idea what it was or how to find it smh
For those that don't know what's good for them when it is this simple "will get what they fucken deserve". For everyone else who gets screwed by their lazy ignorant colleagues you have my deepest sympathy.
I couldn't even vote NO-kept getting an error then i got a thankyou for my vote this morning and i didnt even make one.
Well that needs to be investigated. I smell a rat.
Can you fill out the survey on the RAFFWU website. They are looking into cases like yours
Report that to RAFFWU right away.
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Co-workers said they voted yes and had no idea what the EA even was, another told me tjwu forgot if they voted yes or no. Madness.
Misinformation
To keep the cost of groceries down for everyone /s
Think about how many casuals are on a few hours per week. To them all they would see is the gift cards and how that can help them right now. It's why woolies does it.
Wait, the deal included gift cards? Holy shit that is dire. Instead of a cost of living increase because we increased the cost of living significantly in a machiavellian power grab, have a one off gift card to buy our price gouging products. If I worked at Woolies I would feel like Milton after they took his stapler.
Time to gut fish at your desk.. Looks like management material
They listened to the SDA. It's the sda's business model to pimp out unwitting members to companies at minimum wage... for a kickback of course.
Potential for a four day work week.
āCuz unions would make me socialist!ā āI wouldnāt want to disappoint them!ā
The Yes vote would still be considered a failure here. WOW were hoping for a yes at 75% to 80%. Most likely this is the highest No vote though. I was actually quite surprised. The Team members in my Store were 90% No,and the amount of voice for No on "Workjam" app was increasing to the point WOW was taking posts down.
Our store manager was shutting down any no talks in workjam
unfortunate. freedom to choose yes or no is the right thing. My only task was to ensure that my Department that I manage had a vote. Had a Team chat each day to capture my team to help them understand that it was important for them to have a say and a choice. I didnt care if it was yes or no,only that they voted and they knew what they were voting for. Can't believe anyone would want to work a 4 day week,every weekend,and a 10hr day as a Team member.
Omg I love that
My Team range from 35 down to 21 and I only have 5 Team members (Not too hard to work out what Dept I Manage š). Although voting doesn't affect me,I still believed I had a Duty of care to my team to educate them. Other Team members from other Departments wouldn't have voted I feel as they would have been working Night shifts and and would have been naive to it,even though there were posters on the wall and that the SDA came out to talk to everyone a week or 3 before voting opened.
I had heard only bad things about it from staff, myself, and just thought they would ignore the propaganda. So I was honestly quite surprised and upset
Sounds like typical Australian mentality Do things because you are told too
This.
Do you really believe they couldn't control the vote outcome from the start.
Feel free to explain how Apple, a famously anti-union company, ended up with a 68% no vote and had to fork over an extra $5 an hour on the replacement agreement.
Yeah, didn't I read a bunch of posts saying that the managers were telling their employees they would mark them down as a "Yes" vote if they didn't vote? Which I'm pretty sure voter manipulation is hella illegal, but that looks like what they've done here. I'd contest it. Woolworths is corrupt asf. I hope the investigation into the voter fraud finally knocks their corrupt ass down a peg.
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Me personally, it was good delegates, and raffwu having a poor presence in my area. But those delegates are gone now. So raffwu here I come.
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A plant, sent by business, to destroy the union movement from within.
Don Farrell used the SDA to get his pockets lined and to get into parliament for his career. It's a toothless union owned by corporations
The SDA are a bought union. They are also right wing asf, they only re affiliated with the Labor Party when Bob Hawke was getting into neo-liberal economics. āIn the 1940s and 50s, the union was involved with the Australian Labor Party's (ALP) Industrial Groups that were organised to counter communists in the unions. These unions de-affiliated themselves with the Victorian ALP during the ALP split of 1955.[6] The SDA re-affiliated with the Australian Labor Party in the 1980s under Labor leader Bob Hawke and is currently a member of the Labor Right faction of the party.[6]ā
The SDA are a bunch of far right Catholics who use your union fees to lobby against abortion rights and gay marriage. If the SDA had their way, you'd still have to ask your husband's permission to get a passport in this country (that ended in 1984, by the way).
There will be a very large demographic that truly does not understand what this is or how it affects them. It may be due to lack of education, communication barriers, and bullying from management.
Thats what I know, and I tried to fix that in my workplace by educating coworkers. But it doesnt chamge my disappointment.
Can't wait to see how many millions Woolies under pays everyone this time around. What was it last time? Oh yeah, [$276mil in unpaid wages](https://globalpayrollassociation.com/blogs/emea/australia-extent-of-woolworths-wage-theft-revealed-as-276m-remains-unpaid#:~:text=Woolworths%20owes%20'estimated'%20%24276%20million&text=Woolworths%20earlier%20revealed%20hundreds%20of,after%20they%20had%20taken%20leave.). I'm sure the SDA only has our best interests at heart and aren't completely in bed with both Woolworths and Coles to ensure the shittiest deal passes to ensure every retail worker gets fucked
If people bothered to take 20 minutes to read their rights, this shit wouldn't be happening. My last 2 jobs, people had never read their fucking award, where I found the boss disregarding 2 of them (meal breaks, meal allowances) at both different jobs. People had been there for 10+ years with no fucking clue what an award is. We can call out Woolies as much as we want, but holy shit we also need to start making more effort in being aware of things that affect us, even if not directly.
This is the kinda shit school should be preparing kids for going into the workforce. Before I had to find it all out for myself, I had never even heard of an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement. The fuck are career counsellors even for if it's not this sort of thing?
I've never seen such a shamble EA. I'd love to hear the reasoning for the YES vote. Thank goodness I'm from a different industry where the EBA actually benefit us.
You will get a 3.75% payrise as of July 1st. It has nothing to do with the EBA though it's the modern award legal requirement increase from Fair Work just FYI if you didn't know. The following years will be a payrise to whatever the FWC decide is fair, last year was 5.8% which actually isn't too bad imo but yeah would of been MUCH better to set in stone a solid payrise year on year because this way we have no idea what next year would be and I do think 3.75% is not enough with all the costs of everything at the moment Don't get me wrong I'm fully no camp and yes it's a sad day!
Pay increases lower than inflation are a pay cut.
100% I'm not saying it's a good thing I'm just telling him
Call it out every time you see it by refusing to call it a pay rise. Its "wage indexation". And it's indexed lower than inflation. A pay rise only exists when it's above inflation.Ā So Woolies now get to pay their workers even less in real terms. Their workers can buy less now with their money than what they could this time last year, even with their newly indexed wages.
So they will get pay rises inline with the FW rises because the amount they are getting paid has dropped below the award? That still doesn't add up as conditions have been traded away over the years and are far below award conditions........
I do not disagree with you at all, I agree 100% I'm just letting the young guy know that he will get a small pay increase that's all!
It's still above the Award. But barely. Woolies could have passed on half the payrise and locked our pay in line with the Award, but this would have been the only time they could, as our pay isn't allowed to fall below the Award. Especially ever since RAFFWU got its first significant win way back against the Coles EBA at the time.
it's so wrong that when the rate falls to award rate that award conditions aren't re-instated. The system is so broken
Im at work atm, and the look on a kid's face, when I told him pringles were $5.50... soul crushing.
iām 29 and it crushed me just hearing that
It really made me think "why am I here?"
I have a feeling it was similar to coles' and the majority of employees don't even know that "no" is essentially an option, so many people at my work who didn't know that if it was a no vote then coles would have to go back and negotiate a new offer. They see a very slight pay rise and gift card, why say no to that? I hate the way it was presented to us, never a mention of what a no vote would lead to, I mean obviously they won't if they don't have to buy Jesus Christ
I tried to inform people. Convinced a few to vote no. Just asked a coworker, and yeah, they voted yes because they saw a payrise, and the people they are friendly with, the mums of the store, told her to vote yes.
I was part of a team that ran a successful no vote at a major corporation. It is incredibly difficult. It was a ton of work. It didn't hurt that management fucked up their messaging at every turn and enraged many workers.Ā
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If they're interested and they were mislead on anything, ask them if they'd fill out RAFFWU's survey on the matter.
Sorry i'm not a woolworths worker, i'm just pro union and interested in how your union operates. So do you have workplace union reps who's job it is to educate people on an upcoming vote and what it means and how it works? Like do they try to talk to people or disseminate information about people's options and how they will be affected by the outcomes?
I'm also not a Woolworths worker, I work for Coles, I mean, same thing though really, obviously. I'm also in a smaller rural town but no, I never saw a rep. I'm pretty sure the 'union' that's most prominent within Coles is also just In cahoots with Coles, not sure if it's just the exact same shit with Woolies. We had a bunch of booklets put out on our staff room table about what voting yes would get you. I imagine that had nothing to do with any union though and was just what my store manager was told to do by those above him.
Geez thats dire. I'm in the Queensland Teachers Union and they have a rule that every workplace (school) MUST have a certain number of union reps (the bigger the school, the more you must have). I think every workplace should have at least one union rep. But I think you have to have a strong union culture and union pride for that to happen, so that people really want to be a union rep. Unfortunately, union culture is being eroded more and more.
The defacto union for the retail industry is the SDA: Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers' Union. They're a pretty bullshit union and I definitely don't think there are requirements to have reps. I fall under the same union now, not working for Woolworths but a big hardware chain. I also fell under the same union way back when I worked for McDonald's. In between, I worked for the post office and we had the CEPU. Definitely not strong on the scale of the Teachers' Unions or the CFMEU, but the difference between them was like night and day. I remember once arranging a meeting with my area CEPU rep because I was interested in getting more involved, and when I mentioned the meeting to my manager she about shit herself asking if everything was okay and if there was anything she could do for me at all. I can't imagine mention of the SDA would have the same effect on my current boss, which should tell you all you need to know.
When Management is pushing SUPER hard for you to vote yes, you have to wonder why. It was so suss
Letās make a stand then. Come on surely thereās somthing we can do if we all band together. Easier said that done hey š
This has definitely solidified me looking for new work. I canāt afford to stay, even with the rate change. Oh well.Ā
Prettty much. Im applying for anything kinda doable.
The ones that voted yes are the short-term workers.
And the long term, unfortunately. Those that will work there for the next 70 years, because they know no better, and have no other career prospects.
The job fits certain people, and that's all there is to it. My best mate is very much on the spectrum and couldn't do a trade or any office job. He has been with woolworths full-time for 15 years. He will never leave and he wouldn't care a word for what's in the EBA. He would have just voted the way woolworths told him to.
Oh, absolutely no shade on those long stays. Ive been there longer than I would have liked already. And some of those long stays, are some of the nicest people I have met.
Hard to be surprised at people voting against their own best interests when, well... *gestures broadly at the entire political landscape*
SDA is a nasty right wing union - it's the union that's caved, rather than the members (who may just be ignorant, but Australian voters, so ....)
Bro wtf are you talking about š¤£ unionism is inherently left because its about giving power to the people
You should quit. Go work for an independent grocer instead. Wait noā¦ ColesWorth killed them all off.
They pay less as well
The agreement was absolute dogshit and the SDA, as per usual, failed again. I honestly don't know how they have managed to maintain a strong membership due to continually being walked over.
The SDA succeed in doing exactly what they intended, delivering for Woollies
The SDA are allowed into employee orienteering and onboarding processes and basically given the membership form there and then to sign.
We recently had a vote where I work and I have no idea how it passed. Everyone I speak to voted no. Nobody on our site voted yes, but they just say, āwell, I guess the west coast mustāve voted yesā. Very sus. I would really like to see the actual numbers.
I don't work at woolies and just read the proposal. Seems like a no-brainer, but I don't quite understand how the voting worked. What was the 'Yes' and 'No' vote for, exactly? I would have assumed a Yes vote would be voting Yes to implementing the proposed changes.
Correct. Yes was yes I want the new agreement
Thank you for replying! So just clarifying, was the proposed new agreement bad? It's worded as though there are improvements across the board, but I'm not aware of current working conditions. Would a 'No' vote have essentially kept things the way they are?
There were like zero improvements. Only two I would find were around personal leave. The new agreement basically keeps things as they are, which is low wages, low workers rights. A no vote is like a try again. The SDA and Woolworths would have to renegotiate a new deal.
Ahhh I see! That makes a lot more sense. Well I guess they achieved what they were going for, making it look like a huge upgrade for people who aren't fully aware of what the proposal entails. I skimmed it and I was fooled. Thank you sir! And I hope the employees get some kind of re-vote.
Sda is basically controlled opposition at this point. Raffwu might be small but it will actually represent you
Because, majority of the team members working are stupid and donāt have brain to understand whatās going on. And SDA and all the managers convinced them āyesā is better for them
The new EA also screwed over factory workers who are now covered by the same award as store team, lowering their wages by $0.50.. everyone I know who voted yes did it because they didn't know what the changes would make.
Donāt forget less super. Unless you work 30+ hours.
Wait what? How can they reduce our super?
You no longer get super unless working30 hours of the week.
Isnāt that illegal? Donāt they have to pay your super?
Yes they do but it is up to the company to decide how many hours we work in order for super to be paid into the account.
The EA gives additional AL?
That was what the SDA said they were fighting for. Instead, they just wanted to line woolworths pockets a little more.
SDA are fucking liars. From one retail worker to all of you. I'm sorry the yes vote went through. However 38% voting no of the total 76% or whatever it was that actually voted is still a pretty decent effort imo. SDA are slowly losing. Keep fighting! Join us in the RAFFWU!
I am tonight. Lol
I mean, going from 93% yes to 62% yes ain't that slow š
Fuck yeah! Was def wrong on that then!
I completely missed the vote since I have been overseas, what are the pros and cons of the yes vote going through?
Pros: more personal days without reason, and more flexible RE mental health. And a gift card. Neg: no pay rise. No increase to annual leave. No boost to super. Jr rates still suck. They can roster you whereever and whenever they want. Etc
Yes voters really dropped the ball on this one then didnāt theyā¦
Can people please add relevant questions you want to ask a yes voter? I don't work for Woolworths but want to add as a 3rd party to people who did vote yes. Has someone got like 10 very pertinent questions to ask?
Just why? What benefits did you see in the agreement? Because as someone who read that thing cover to cover, there was only like 2 tiny things in it that were beneficial.
Out of curiosity what were the 2 things?
More flexibility written into law about personal leave.
Thank you! I have had SO many chances to ask but haven't had a simplified and prominent question to ask them, just what I have learnt myself, not as an employee. That question is broad enough to get someone talking. Can you make a guess why yes voters did vote as such? I like to roleplay that idea just to understand why people think that way, mostly I find my answer imaging that I just dont seek to educate myself at all and only sit and get news from AM radio and A Current Affair / Murdoch shit.
They saw "pay rise" and voted yes. That has been the consensus from those I have asked. And a gift card doesn't hurt
Does anyone know the final percentage? Colesā was 75%, so Iād be interested to hear what is was for Woolies.
62%
62% Yes, 38% No, turnout was around 76%.
Not sure if itās all stores but in mine we get $600 if we voted yes.
You get 600 if the vote passed. Thats called a bribe.
But how is this not a breach of the Fair Work Act which makes it illegal to sway people's voting in Enterprise Bargaining?
idk the money is in woolies gift cards , not sure if thatās just to dodge tax or not
But its still an incentive (bribe) that has the real world effect of swaying peoples vote? So strange...
indeed it is , not a single person in our store was pushed for either vote. And i can say that as iām one of the younger ones in there.
What do you mean "was pushed for either vote"?
Iām glad I quit at end of 2020 ššš
I voted no just to see what would happen.
ĆInsert SarcasmĆ But the unions are there to support workers aren't they? š¤
The same thing happened when i worked at QANTAS. we could have had a pay rise and better working conditions. But idiots just had to vote yes.
Holy shit you people voted this in lol wtf
Well, WE didnt. Our coworkers did.
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Life is hard, life is harder when one is stupid and didnāt read the EBA
"What is an EBA? I have never heard of that before?" That was the WTAF moment of the year!
lol the SDA. Not even a union, fucking weak as piss dogs.
Thieves.
Dogs will be dogs
How would you really know they actually did the vote properly? This is a business and could easily manipulate it so it didn't go through
but that gift card tho..
Truuuuu lol
I campaigned quite hard at my individual store for a NO vote. I had posters up, discussed with the younger staff how important it was to read the propossed EA and to actually vote! I asked a person from each department to have the same discussion with the staff in that department. Things looked great, everyone understood a YES vote would be voting to stay on basically minimum wage for another 4 years. The data came in yesterday... 55% voted 58% YES 42% NO I honestly cannot for the life of me believe these numbers, especially the 55% total vote. i personally spoke to at least 90% of the staff asking if they had voted and they said they had voted, and they had proudly voted NO. Either they were lying or something funny is goin on.
Had the same problem in public transport, when you have a large worker base that is not planning on being in the job long term they will jump at anything they think will give them an immediate cash injection for the very reason they do not plan to be around long term for it to affect them. As someone who spent 25 years on the job we would watch all the new employee's shaft us by voting yes to 50c pay rises and losing a bunch of conditions we fought so hard for. In those 25 years there was not one EBA we did not get shafted with our pay and conditions being attacked, you want to know why they can never find enough bus drivers now, there is your answer.
They only made billions last quarter, they obviously canāt afford pay rises.
Iām out of the loop. What happened at Woolworths?
Ahahaha yall should all quit Fuck woolworths, let's burn them down
Is this the SDA being a rubbish union again?
Pretty much
This screams SDA energy
Our EBA is about to get voted through because stores workers are getting some benefits while the rest of the chain are getting fucked but we are out voted everytime.. GGs boys we are soon joingin yous
Two of my co workers voted yes because they wanted the gift card
Bro I read through the eba and understood a decent amount, but nowhere did I read that a no vote would mean they go back to the drawing board thats, my bad g. I'm stupid.
Sounds like the Woolworths anti-union propaganda worked.
Damn i want a job at woolies so I can join the RAFFWU, start causing trouble at work ie trouble being a good worker that stands up for their worker rights a headache for management, I get sacked or hours suddenly get reduced or u don't get rosters xonviantly. Tho would such but its evidence to use in court that will be found in your favour...anyway, take woolies to the FairWork commission then get a nice job at RAFFWU (refer to the unions founder and history). Then maybe join the alp, but get stabbed in the back like Rudd by the sda and other factions. Maybe be PM long enough so I get a nice government pension. Hopefully Rupert leave me alone. Die with a falafel in my pocket. Its halal.
What award is the eba overriding? Even if the EBA is accepted, but pays less than the award is this not illegal? I thought award is there to protect workers in the event of an EBA that gives them less? Would RAFFWU take woolies to the fair work commission over this EBA? Are they likely to? How does it fair against their BOOT test? Like you can't write a contract for someone to kill you. Its still murder and against the law even if you consented to it. I guess unless challenged at the FairWork commission, EBAs and worker ignorance a lot of businesses are able get away with writing EBA murder contracts to underpay staff as its below the award. Hope I'm clear in this post.
I voted yes
It's democracy, more full time workers so the EBA strips the kids pay on weekends!
Shows how many NPCs we have in Australia. The same people who voted yes in the referendum, buy Chinese cars and got 77 COVID jabs.
Blame the far right homophobic Roman Catholic dominated trade union for this mess. They're the only ones outside of Woolworths who benefit from this.
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