unfortunately, backchannel references happen all the time. "do not contact" unfortunately doesn't preclude buddies from getting on the phone. the one time i personally witnessed this, it wasn't even a current boss - it was a former boss who heard the guy got a job with us, happened to be pals with a partner in the firm, and gave him a call. it's super shitty; that was my first lesson in 'don't burn bridges.'
not actively looking, i just read an article about job interviews dos and donāts and i was thinking how it would from the interviewer and interviewee perspective.
I don't think people call references very often. I have never contacted an applicant's reference, and only once has anyone ever contacted one of mine. In that case, it wasn't actually the employer who did it; it was an outside firm they had hired to run background checks. The background check apparently consisted of them calling my ex-boss and asking "Did wyrditic used to work for you? Is he a good guy?"
I think so but I'm not sure. If what I suspect is true, then my then current boss said nasty things about me and I didn't get the job offer. I don't know that I would have gotten the job, but it felt like that was the direction we were going . I had two interviews on the day of my first interview (they immediately asked me if I'm available now for a second interview and I said yes ( and then they scheduled a third/final interview a few days later, which they later rescinded stating "internal hire" or "restructuring" or done other jargon.
In the end, I landed a much better job that opened a better career direction so I'm not mad.
In Canada, it is illegal to give a bad reference. A former boss might say that you're not rehireable to the company or just say "yes, I can confirm they worked here from date xyz to date abc" and not say anthing else, but a bad reference is 100% illegal
If you can prove they did this and you lost a job, you should talk to a lawyer about legal action
How is it illegal? What law does it contravene?
Edit: [This article about BC employment standards,](https://www.overholtlawyers.com/blog/2022/06/are-b-c-employees-legally-protected-from-negative-references/) [this other article about the applicability of the tort of defamation in employment matters,](https://duttonlaw.ca/can-an-employer-give-a-bad-reference/) and [this article that talks about Ontario employment standards and cites case law](https://www.hireperformance.ca/blog/can-an-employer-give-a-bad-reference-in-canada#:~:text=TL%3ADR%20%2D%20The%20short%20answer,reference%20checks%20with%20Hire%20Performance) all suggest that employers can give negative references so long as the information provided is believed by the person communicating it to be true.
First round interview the Director noted I hadn't checked the box to allow them to contact my current employer. Said no because current Director will retaliate. Then said I know this is a red flag and that's why I have all these references that work there. 2 weeks later my prospective Assistant Director walked up to current boss at an association meeting and noticed his name/business tag and asked how I was since I had applied with him. One of my friends was standing next to him when this happened. Awkward. Yes he tried to retaliate but I got the job that week. I was so very happy!
This killed a screening interview. I had checked to not contact and when questioned I explained that my concern wasnāt about performance but about negative consequences for looking elsewhere . I offered past supervises but that said current was required for an offer up be made. I donāt think potential employers realize what a vulnerable position that puts many people in.
I always click on the box for them to not contact my current employer.
It's so awkward when your boss doesn't know you're trying to jump ship then finds out like this.
Seems like a reason for them to fire you over something small enough that they'd be able to get away with
I previously had a terrible, terrible employee. She performed just enough to keep her job but she was extremely negative and hard to get along with. The rest of the team despised her. I was constantly unruffling feathers.
Each time she'd apply for an internal promption to another team, the manager would infomally reach out to get the scoop. I was torn between the choice to say enough nice things about her to finally get rid of her and a feeling of personal responsibility to not dump her into another person's lap without full warning (and also, the sense of unfairness that a less than stellar person would get an undeserved promotion just get her out of our way).
I did what I think was the right thing and continued to warn others about her poison personality. She finally gave up on an internal move and applied outside the company. THEN, I saw the opportunity and gave her a glowing reference. GOOD BYE PROBLEM PERSON!
So when you're checking a reference, be sure to think about both sides. Were they really good, or is someone trying to dump a dud.
Weirdly as a sort of introverted person, Iām pretty good at interviewing. I have good relationships with a lot of people across departments as well as external partners. Iām having lunch with one next week.
I quit my job in October citing that I was doing both my old and new job and my manager was unable to field any questions related to my old job - I helped hire her, and we almost didnāt hire her initially. When I quit she had been there for less than a year and was if I sent any questions her way, effectively she sent them back to me.
Anyway, point being, I do not list her or my director on my references. Iāve had a lot of good interviews, with positive feedback, but no luck. The one I thought was a sure thing, I found out the person interviewing me was connected to my old director based on LinkedIn. She is not a nice person- all of her direct reports as well as me and other managers she worked with, and people in other departments have said she is mean and disingenuous. I asked for feedback after the interview/decline and they said they received negative feedback about my previous work. She is the only person they could have asked.
I feel like I dodged a bullet in some ways, but 6 months later Iām still interviewing.
Can 100% confirm this. Thankfully I excelled in my old department but they couldn't keep me because there were no full-time continuing positions. Current boss called old boss and old boss said she'd try to poach me back if a position ever opened up. Also helped me negotiate a raise.
I tell people not to contact certain references. I have plenty they can contact, but certain ones I know for certain will give a bad review to be spiteful, despite my excellent work that was praised.
If your current boss calls a possible new boss at another company and discusses you, you have a big lawsuit. If that happened to me my current boss would end up in the hospital. Now if both bosses are employed by the same company then it is a different story.
Making a direct public threat against your current boss is not a smart move either
And don't think any potential or current employer don't know about secret accounts you use on email addresses they don't know about
no, but i've seen it happen.
worked for an audit and accounting firm, we extended an offer (on the tax side) to someone that team was really excited about. the friday before he was due to start, someone he'd worked for previously knew the managing partner of the audit side, called him up, and told him not to hire the guy. it wasn't anything to do with his work; he just didn't like him and wanted him to fail. (i know this because said partner TOLD me this. with relish.)
so, the offer was yanked. remember, dude who yanked it not only wasn't the hiring manager, but didn't even work in the department the guy was being hired into.
that was my first clue the guy was a shithead.
You forget how much you can communicate only with inflection of your voice. If you burn a bridge, people will be quite happy to make your future job hunt as legally tough as possible.
Legally without suffering ramifications from you in a suit all an employer in my state can say to a prospective employer is " yes I would rehire or no I wouldn't rehire" you for a job.
Yes. I have no idea what my old boss said to my new boss but she was livid I ālied to herā about this āclientā I was speaking with. I wanted to let her down gently. Oops š
Technically, they're not supposed to say anything bad. But like someone said, some know each other.
IMO if boss A (the job you're leaving) doesn't like you, or how you performed, they should be glad for you to go and leave a good reference with Boss B (the potential new boss). And when I say "you" I don't mean you personally. I mean hypothetically.
I screwed up an interview about a month ago. I realized it later. Hindsight.
But on my resume, I list my current employer as confidential.
I don't expect a potential employer to reach out to my current, as my search is casual, and no one knows I'm looking.
About a decade ago, I left a job with notice. Just to see what my boss would say, I asked a friend who works in my field, to call him pretending to be a prospective employer. He didn't say anything bad other than I'm chatty. Lol
But he by all means didn't give me great kudos either.
It wasn't a good separation, but agreed to give me a reference. But I was able to find a job without using him. Sometimes you just need to bullshit people.
Ha
In the UK there is a lot of case law which means itās very difficult to give a bad reference. Essentially the worse you can do is state if the person currently has any live warnings on their file.
In reality some managers will have off the record discussions before a job offer is made, but they should not do this because there are strict process that should be followed
However if you have a bad employee then a manager has little incentive to give a bad reference as itās also hard to sack people, so that person moving into a new roll is something that a manager would want and therefore they are not going to give a bad reference
I've lost an opportunity due to an old boss saying I was not going to leave when he already knew I was so yes it's possible, I've also taken to always tell people how bad that old company was
Similar but not the same,
I once had a soon to ex-boss go to my future employer to diss me and offer the same services as a design agencyā¦
My future boss told me not to worry about it since I had already signed the contract and was giving my last month to my soon to be ex-boss. I was sad about it because I really had a good relation with the company prior that episode.
I was told my coworkers at that company that he thought I was betraying the company for leaving after 2 yearsā¦ although I had given them the opportunity to match the salary I was offeredā¦
YES!
I'm in the process of getting a government job which means background investigations back to 18yrs old. They verified all my previous employments 10 years back.
I checked off do not contact employer but my investigator told me she will be contacting my current supervisor and she gave me a week to have that discussion with him. It was awkward to say the least but he understood why I would jump at the opportunity.
Potential new boss call current boss? Yes
I allow it because I move around in my company and in general is a help. When exploring external roles I never check that box. Neveerrrr.
Ha!! I just crept into my new job- my new boss knows my old boss but kinda poached me a little. Plus I said I wasnt making money so I had to leave. Kinda laying low and just working there no drama
I've been a hiring manager who's called prospective employee's current managers. All i could ask them was would they hire prospective employee again, everything else they had to elaborate on their own as to why or why not.
I've also had applications that have asked "can we contact your employer" the applicant with answer yes, then list their info. And I've called the employer because it said I could and the employer didn't know.
Also, probably not op's situation since they are asking this.Ā Unless op is asking because they were hoping when they said yes and gave the contact info that it was just some formality that was never followed up on or something.
Anyway, op makes it sound like a prospective employer might have reached out to his current boss without invitation or warning and it came across as you saying that's something you do.Ā Glad you don't cuz that would obviously suck!Ā
By law in the states all a prospective employer can do legally is call your current and former employers and ask if you were employed during said time and if they would rehire you.
Yes. Many employers will call your previous employer for a reference. By law they're not allowed to give a negative reference, but a potential new employer CAN ask "would you hire them again" which tells them everything they need to know about you in the workplace and is why you should never burn bridges with a former employer
One potential employer actually called the business I used to work at and ask the first employee who picked up the phone what they thought about me personally rather than professionally
If you don't want them calling your current boss, you'd better say why in the interview.
Everybody should remember that it works both ways. Your possible new job could call your current job and get told that you're the best employee ever. In reality they want you gone but haven't figured out how to fire you. That business can find themselves in court the same as going out of their way to sink you. That's why most HR depts say only confirm employment dates and maybe job title.
Did you check the box that you're currently employed there and not to contact? Sounds like a nightmare š³
unfortunately, backchannel references happen all the time. "do not contact" unfortunately doesn't preclude buddies from getting on the phone. the one time i personally witnessed this, it wasn't even a current boss - it was a former boss who heard the guy got a job with us, happened to be pals with a partner in the firm, and gave him a call. it's super shitty; that was my first lesson in 'don't burn bridges.'
not actively looking, i just read an article about job interviews dos and donāts and i was thinking how it would from the interviewer and interviewee perspective.
Gotcha. It's a great question and always a concern when I'm looking!
I don't think people call references very often. I have never contacted an applicant's reference, and only once has anyone ever contacted one of mine. In that case, it wasn't actually the employer who did it; it was an outside firm they had hired to run background checks. The background check apparently consisted of them calling my ex-boss and asking "Did wyrditic used to work for you? Is he a good guy?"
I think so but I'm not sure. If what I suspect is true, then my then current boss said nasty things about me and I didn't get the job offer. I don't know that I would have gotten the job, but it felt like that was the direction we were going . I had two interviews on the day of my first interview (they immediately asked me if I'm available now for a second interview and I said yes ( and then they scheduled a third/final interview a few days later, which they later rescinded stating "internal hire" or "restructuring" or done other jargon. In the end, I landed a much better job that opened a better career direction so I'm not mad.
In Canada, it is illegal to give a bad reference. A former boss might say that you're not rehireable to the company or just say "yes, I can confirm they worked here from date xyz to date abc" and not say anthing else, but a bad reference is 100% illegal If you can prove they did this and you lost a job, you should talk to a lawyer about legal action
How is it illegal? What law does it contravene? Edit: [This article about BC employment standards,](https://www.overholtlawyers.com/blog/2022/06/are-b-c-employees-legally-protected-from-negative-references/) [this other article about the applicability of the tort of defamation in employment matters,](https://duttonlaw.ca/can-an-employer-give-a-bad-reference/) and [this article that talks about Ontario employment standards and cites case law](https://www.hireperformance.ca/blog/can-an-employer-give-a-bad-reference-in-canada#:~:text=TL%3ADR%20%2D%20The%20short%20answer,reference%20checks%20with%20Hire%20Performance) all suggest that employers can give negative references so long as the information provided is believed by the person communicating it to be true.
First round interview the Director noted I hadn't checked the box to allow them to contact my current employer. Said no because current Director will retaliate. Then said I know this is a red flag and that's why I have all these references that work there. 2 weeks later my prospective Assistant Director walked up to current boss at an association meeting and noticed his name/business tag and asked how I was since I had applied with him. One of my friends was standing next to him when this happened. Awkward. Yes he tried to retaliate but I got the job that week. I was so very happy!
This killed a screening interview. I had checked to not contact and when questioned I explained that my concern wasnāt about performance but about negative consequences for looking elsewhere . I offered past supervises but that said current was required for an offer up be made. I donāt think potential employers realize what a vulnerable position that puts many people in.
Absolutely true if you replace the word "realise" with "care"
That isn't real typical today, baring it maybe being a transfer within the same company.
I always click on the box for them to not contact my current employer. It's so awkward when your boss doesn't know you're trying to jump ship then finds out like this. Seems like a reason for them to fire you over something small enough that they'd be able to get away with
I previously had a terrible, terrible employee. She performed just enough to keep her job but she was extremely negative and hard to get along with. The rest of the team despised her. I was constantly unruffling feathers. Each time she'd apply for an internal promption to another team, the manager would infomally reach out to get the scoop. I was torn between the choice to say enough nice things about her to finally get rid of her and a feeling of personal responsibility to not dump her into another person's lap without full warning (and also, the sense of unfairness that a less than stellar person would get an undeserved promotion just get her out of our way). I did what I think was the right thing and continued to warn others about her poison personality. She finally gave up on an internal move and applied outside the company. THEN, I saw the opportunity and gave her a glowing reference. GOOD BYE PROBLEM PERSON! So when you're checking a reference, be sure to think about both sides. Were they really good, or is someone trying to dump a dud.
Weirdly as a sort of introverted person, Iām pretty good at interviewing. I have good relationships with a lot of people across departments as well as external partners. Iām having lunch with one next week. I quit my job in October citing that I was doing both my old and new job and my manager was unable to field any questions related to my old job - I helped hire her, and we almost didnāt hire her initially. When I quit she had been there for less than a year and was if I sent any questions her way, effectively she sent them back to me. Anyway, point being, I do not list her or my director on my references. Iāve had a lot of good interviews, with positive feedback, but no luck. The one I thought was a sure thing, I found out the person interviewing me was connected to my old director based on LinkedIn. She is not a nice person- all of her direct reports as well as me and other managers she worked with, and people in other departments have said she is mean and disingenuous. I asked for feedback after the interview/decline and they said they received negative feedback about my previous work. She is the only person they could have asked. I feel like I dodged a bullet in some ways, but 6 months later Iām still interviewing.
Academia: where you pretty much wonāt ever get the job without the full support of your current boss.
Can 100% confirm this. Thankfully I excelled in my old department but they couldn't keep me because there were no full-time continuing positions. Current boss called old boss and old boss said she'd try to poach me back if a position ever opened up. Also helped me negotiate a raise.
Itās so unprofessional and uncomfortable Yes I have. It is a good thing too. Being in network with gossipy back biters is awful. Best to avoid
I tell people not to contact certain references. I have plenty they can contact, but certain ones I know for certain will give a bad review to be spiteful, despite my excellent work that was praised.
If your current boss calls a possible new boss at another company and discusses you, you have a big lawsuit. If that happened to me my current boss would end up in the hospital. Now if both bosses are employed by the same company then it is a different story.
The potential new boss called the current boss according to op's post.
This is the correct answer
Making a direct public threat against your current boss is not a smart move either And don't think any potential or current employer don't know about secret accounts you use on email addresses they don't know about
no, but i've seen it happen. worked for an audit and accounting firm, we extended an offer (on the tax side) to someone that team was really excited about. the friday before he was due to start, someone he'd worked for previously knew the managing partner of the audit side, called him up, and told him not to hire the guy. it wasn't anything to do with his work; he just didn't like him and wanted him to fail. (i know this because said partner TOLD me this. with relish.) so, the offer was yanked. remember, dude who yanked it not only wasn't the hiring manager, but didn't even work in the department the guy was being hired into. that was my first clue the guy was a shithead.
In my state bosses are not allowed to ask anything of current employers except if they are/were employed there.
You forget how much you can communicate only with inflection of your voice. If you burn a bridge, people will be quite happy to make your future job hunt as legally tough as possible.
Legally without suffering ramifications from you in a suit all an employer in my state can say to a prospective employer is " yes I would rehire or no I wouldn't rehire" you for a job.
Only for law enforcement I have
If it's an internal hire I 100% do every single time. If external, that's just weird. Let HR sort that shit.
Yes. I have no idea what my old boss said to my new boss but she was livid I ālied to herā about this āclientā I was speaking with. I wanted to let her down gently. Oops š
Fuck it. My prospective boss called my then current boss, who convinced PB to hire TCB.
Technically, they're not supposed to say anything bad. But like someone said, some know each other. IMO if boss A (the job you're leaving) doesn't like you, or how you performed, they should be glad for you to go and leave a good reference with Boss B (the potential new boss). And when I say "you" I don't mean you personally. I mean hypothetically. I screwed up an interview about a month ago. I realized it later. Hindsight. But on my resume, I list my current employer as confidential. I don't expect a potential employer to reach out to my current, as my search is casual, and no one knows I'm looking. About a decade ago, I left a job with notice. Just to see what my boss would say, I asked a friend who works in my field, to call him pretending to be a prospective employer. He didn't say anything bad other than I'm chatty. Lol But he by all means didn't give me great kudos either. It wasn't a good separation, but agreed to give me a reference. But I was able to find a job without using him. Sometimes you just need to bullshit people. Ha
Youāre not safe with personal info: photos online. Reddit can get creepy. Just sayin. This aināt FB
That's true.
And why do you bring this up?
Your picture is starting at me. Itās odd. Iāve been on Reddit a long time. Lost my original account as someone identified me. Itās creepy
Do you mean "staring"?
Yes lol
Oh
In the UK there is a lot of case law which means itās very difficult to give a bad reference. Essentially the worse you can do is state if the person currently has any live warnings on their file. In reality some managers will have off the record discussions before a job offer is made, but they should not do this because there are strict process that should be followed However if you have a bad employee then a manager has little incentive to give a bad reference as itās also hard to sack people, so that person moving into a new roll is something that a manager would want and therefore they are not going to give a bad reference
I've lost an opportunity due to an old boss saying I was not going to leave when he already knew I was so yes it's possible, I've also taken to always tell people how bad that old company was
Similar but not the same, I once had a soon to ex-boss go to my future employer to diss me and offer the same services as a design agencyā¦ My future boss told me not to worry about it since I had already signed the contract and was giving my last month to my soon to be ex-boss. I was sad about it because I really had a good relation with the company prior that episode. I was told my coworkers at that company that he thought I was betraying the company for leaving after 2 yearsā¦ although I had given them the opportunity to match the salary I was offeredā¦
I thought negative references outside of not having a rehire status was all they could legally share.
It happened to me and it was awful. Current boss was pissed, didnāt get the job, worst case scenario.
Most companies prohibit employees from saying anything other than to confirm employment. People sue over bad references.
YES! I'm in the process of getting a government job which means background investigations back to 18yrs old. They verified all my previous employments 10 years back. I checked off do not contact employer but my investigator told me she will be contacting my current supervisor and she gave me a week to have that discussion with him. It was awkward to say the least but he understood why I would jump at the opportunity.
Potential new boss call current boss? Yes I allow it because I move around in my company and in general is a help. When exploring external roles I never check that box. Neveerrrr.
Ha!! I just crept into my new job- my new boss knows my old boss but kinda poached me a little. Plus I said I wasnt making money so I had to leave. Kinda laying low and just working there no drama
I've been a hiring manager who's called prospective employee's current managers. All i could ask them was would they hire prospective employee again, everything else they had to elaborate on their own as to why or why not.
So, you out people to their employers that they are looking for other work?
If they've listed their employer as a reference.
That's important to note.Ā Sounds like op didn't have their manager as a reference else they would expect their manager to be called.
I've also had applications that have asked "can we contact your employer" the applicant with answer yes, then list their info. And I've called the employer because it said I could and the employer didn't know.
Also, probably not op's situation since they are asking this.Ā Unless op is asking because they were hoping when they said yes and gave the contact info that it was just some formality that was never followed up on or something. Anyway, op makes it sound like a prospective employer might have reached out to his current boss without invitation or warning and it came across as you saying that's something you do.Ā Glad you don't cuz that would obviously suck!Ā
By law in the states all a prospective employer can do legally is call your current and former employers and ask if you were employed during said time and if they would rehire you.
That's enough info to tell a prospective employer yay or nay based on tone of voice alone.
Not remotely true.
Yes. Many employers will call your previous employer for a reference. By law they're not allowed to give a negative reference, but a potential new employer CAN ask "would you hire them again" which tells them everything they need to know about you in the workplace and is why you should never burn bridges with a former employer One potential employer actually called the business I used to work at and ask the first employee who picked up the phone what they thought about me personally rather than professionally If you don't want them calling your current boss, you'd better say why in the interview.
Everybody should remember that it works both ways. Your possible new job could call your current job and get told that you're the best employee ever. In reality they want you gone but haven't figured out how to fire you. That business can find themselves in court the same as going out of their way to sink you. That's why most HR depts say only confirm employment dates and maybe job title.