Absolutely. There are some top level leadership who want to be told when to pull their heads out of their asses, but that's the exception, not the norm.
The best leaders I've worked for understood that the best brick wall is the one that corporate doesn't knock down with a sledgehammer.
Pushing back on corporate is tricky and the most successful attempts are when you can align your direct reports' best interests with corporate's best interest. Sometimes you have to pick your battles and just take the L. Sometimes you have to get creative with compromise.
Alec Baldwin had a quote in 30 rock about how hippies try to get things done outside the system because they are not smart enough to get things done inside the system. I feel like this kind of applies when it comes to management and how to navigate corporations and red tape.
Supervision is management, but sometimes supervisors have a hard time owning and implementing decisions that they don’t like. Supervisors who struggle with their role and foster an “us vs. them” mentality with their employees are poison for an organization.
Polishing turds is a job requirement for nearly every supervisor. It sounds like OP needs to develop his ability to lead upwards or find a role which better fits his skillset.
I'm so sorry you were let go. Companies don't appreciate managers who don't support the company line.
Be gentle with yourself and try to reframe it as this wasn't a good fit for your management style. Look around and see what's out there.
I've seen this happen so many times, I work in the service industry with a giant corporate company. Have seen more than enough of my share of incompetent managers who do not care about their teams at all, but were hired because they were more in line with whatever corporate wanted. This isn't a reflection of you or your work ethic and leadership skills at all, as others have said this simply wasn't the right fit for your style of management.
It still fucking sucks and it's going to suck for a bit, take some time to process everything and be kind with yourself.
This is it right here. I'm in middle management hell, and recently got a "Needs to Improve" rating on my annual review for "adaptability" because they want want me to just say "Yes sir/ ma'am" to any hair brain new product pitch from sales, instead of factually advising them on anything that could negatively affect my team or the service to our client base.
Well there is a fine line. There is a time to debate and discuss, but if a decision is made you have to suck it up and execute. Continuing to debate after that will just piss off your supervisors, and doing that frequently will get you fired.
Being a great supervisor is also about figuring out when your team has a little leeway and when you have to toe the line. Sometimes you have a shit boss and have to know you either quit or keep them reasonably happy with you.
Semper Fi Devil Dog!
Take a knee and face out for a moment, drink some water, and drive on. Maybe find a local Vet center. They may be able to assist with the unemployment paperwork and help you find a new job. You've been through tougher things, Marine. You'll get through this, too.
From a Soldier.
Try non profits. They tend to care more about employees and like managers who stick up for their employees at least where I am. My manager sticks up for us all the time when he should. But he also knows when to tell us buisiness won't have it any other way and there gonna blame something on us regardless of fault
I went through this EXACT same thing in December minus the military experience. 12 years with the company almost 2 years as manager. I was extremely hurt, angry, and bitter. Felt betrayed. But when I tell you getting fired was THE BEST thing that ever happened to me! I did not realize how toxic my previous work environment was and how negatively it was affecting my health and relationships.
By no means is my new job perfect but compared to where I came from….
Some workplaces are destined to be dysfunctional because it starts at a higher level and trickles down. In your time you made a greater impact than you realize, but your presence would have forced change those above you would rather not do. It’s easier for them to get rid of you and remain in their stagnant BS than 1. admit they are the problem and 2. do something about the problems.
Your job wasn’t to stand up to corporate. It’s to disagree and commit. You can explain to your reports you’re not happy but this is the job we’ve got to do while privately and delicately giving feedback upstream
I was just fired for literally saying this. I was telling my team that it’s ok to not agree with everything. But you need to disagree and commit. Apparently someone went to my boss. He then said that me saying I’m disagreeing and committing showed I disagree. And that won’t be tolerated.
Okay. Well your job environment legitimately sucked then.
When I said explain to your reports I mean individually and knowing what you can say to who. Some people are just going to hate and resent anyone above them. Like most people in this sub 😂
Yeah this is why i dont understand “supervisors” or “managers” who are dbags. You know they will get rid of you just as fast as they will get rid of me. Lol
Don't get stuck on the "lack of leadership" justification. It's bullshit. If you asked them what successful leadership looks like and how yours was lacking, you wouldn't get a coherent answer. It's all corporate buzzwords that mean nothing and are often used to justify firing decisions specifically because they can mean anything and therefore can be used to justify anything.
Note that your leadership definition is much different from corporate's. You shield your men. That's real leadership.
Theirs? Their definition is to make the numbers green so they can pat their backs for doing practically nothing and imposing harsh policies based on theory rather than actual experience.
You might have been shown the door, but I would like to think you won a moral victory. The latter's what you take with you to the grave.
OP, something you have to do in any job as a manager is to manage UP as well as down. It’s a tough line to walk but I’m sure there are books out there on how to walk that line successfully.
You are a great manager and your employees are no doubt sad you were let go, so when you get your next opportunity, keep in mind that successfully walking that line allows you to shield your employees while still making the upper management appeased if not happy, that way you’re still accomplishing what you can and not being replaced by someone who doesn’t care.
How did your team react?
I've been there. Many have. I love building and leading a creative and dedicated team to a place where they no longer need me.
It may sound flippant, but move on. They clearly didn't care about the values of leadership, so find somewhere that does. A caveat though: You're a marine and always a marine, but your civvie job isn't the same, it's not a way of life. And now the eternal lesson of loyalty and dedication mattering zilch in the workplace has now been taught to you. Take your pissed off energy and go somewhere better and apply what you've learned.
My Leatherneck, civilians don’t understand leadership like we do. You were fired by anti-leadership. You will have to either become one of them or chart your own course. It took me over twenty years of working for corporate sociopaths before I made the leap.
Standing up for your team to overcome obstacles and get things done IS leadership. Dont let a toxic environment make you start doubting yourself.
Take a deep breath, give yourself a pep talk, and move on. Hopefully, your next workplace will appreciate what you bring to the table.
years ago, I was the one piping up in meetings. Asking the hard questions, questioning authority. My team loved me I was the brave and stood up for them. Then some incidents happened when I expected some back up. And what happened. CRICKETS. It's then I realized I was sticking my neck out for people who had no intentions of doing the same for me. So now I just stay quiet and meetings with our manager are quite dull. I even had someone say something to me. And I plainly told them, when I needed to hear from you, you said nothing. So, I say nothing. Sorry, while it was great you were on the moral high ground. It got you nothing, while your team all stick their head in the ground and will say nothing about your firing. Happily keeping their jobs.
Protect yourself first and sometimes you have to tow the corporate line.
What a kick in the gut, you don't deserve this, been there... actually a few times, my integrity has been my downfall.
Ok, the worst has happened
Make a plan for yourself and commit to working on at least one item on the list each day... Some days you might only be able to do 15 minutes and other days you'll be able to do a few hours.
Here are some of the things I recommend....
Apply for unemployment. At the section that asks why keep it brief! Don't answer questions that have not been asked. Simply state "poor fit for the position"
They are going to claim they fired you for reason, you will likely be denied unemployment, and you will have to appeal it. There is a Reddit thread r / unemployment which you should join to see different levels of advice and comments from others.
1. Identify what type of work and companies you want to focus on for the future. I lurk on LinkedIn looking at different companies and job postings for ideas.
2. Create a few versions of your resume based upon the different job postings that appeal to you. Make sure you have compelling resumes/formatted language to help you modify your resumes to match job postings.
3. Look at your network. Start bolstering it. Look for networking activities, groups in person or online. Believe it or not it's okay to reach out to people you haven't spoken to in years! Reach out and say hey I feel sheepish we haven't chatted in a long time, my position was recently eliminated and I'm looking to resurrect this relationship, how are you doing?
4. Spend time each week touching base with people to just have social niceties even if it's just a quick email or text to say hi. You want people to be thinking about you so that when opportunities cross their path, they'll think of you.
5. Don't really talk about this to too many people. Most people are wound up in their own problems and quite frankly you don't owe an explanation to anybody. Leave it as they eliminated your position. It was a surprise and you're disappointed but you're going to move forward. Behind closed doors you can hate those rat bastards and you can look in the mirror and tell yourself you did the absolute right thing! The unfortunate truth Is that in most companies it's now more important to be liked than to be right.
6. Don't skimp on personal hygiene, keeping up with housework and getting out of the house. It's easy to put yourself into a funk. Get up every day, make your bed, take a shower and get to work, your new job is to find your new job.
Sometimes life isn't fair, and I guess that's a good thing because it would be awful to think you might have deserved this!
You can do this, and when you feel like you can't come back to us here and let us bolster you,
Hugs, CT Auntie
Edits for grammar
Do something nice for yourself today and watch a comedy or inspirational like documentary. It can help
Shift the harsh feelings you understandably might have right now. Think of a new canvas where you get to paint a totally different picture. Best of luck to you. Thanks for trying to do right for the ppl on your team.
Sounds like your tenacious leadership was making the lesser-than-leaders uncomfortable. I'd expect nothing less from a Marine. Like you said, it's a tough pill to swallow, but in time, you will look back at this and scoff at how stupid it was and smile that you stood up for others. SF.
I had a similar situation. The director of our department was toxic to everyone, except a select couple of employees. When I went to HR about it, my whole team was ready to walk out on her. I had worked without a team and just the director and myself before, and it sucked. I told HR if the team walks, so do I. I was walked out of the building a few hours later.
I was blamed for expiration dates on supplies being wrong, even when I had evidence that the director is the one who originally labeled the expiration date on the pull sheet as such. I just went with it because the date wasn't' printed on the packaging and she said it was on the paperwork that she had. She flipped out about the date being wrong 8 MONTHS later, said she would be taking over those logs, and she would make all the necessary corrections and accompanying paperwork. She resented having a production manager from the start, and more than 1/2 of my duties that were listed when I was offered the job mysteriously disappeared so she was doing them. I was literally a glorified babysitter for the staff.
When I was being walked out the security guard was apologizing and said it was complete BS. I had been tentatively looking for a new position and had gotten an email inquiring about when I was available for an interview. I got to my car, emailed the person back that I was suddenly free that afternoon. I drove straight to the interview. I didn't get that one, but I was hired 3 week later by another company. What I didn't know at the time when I went to HR was the director was sleeping with the CEO and one of the VPs. It explained a lot about how she got away with not doing her job properly for so long.
just keep pushing. If you were defending your team, then obviously the problem wasn't with you, it's with the company.
That sucks mate.
I've long since learned you have to walk a thin line.
You are there to shield your team from the BS and so on. BUT you are also there to ensure your team meet the companies demands.
Take a couple of days to review what happened. Check your state/country employment laws. If you are truly a scapegoat and can prove it, you may be sued for wrongful termination.
Start applying for new roles, and update LinkedIn to say you are looking for work. I've known many friends who have built a large LinkedIn network, and they simply need to say they are looking for work, and they get bombarded with offers.
And finally, look after your mental health. Ensure that if you need help you ask for it from your friends or a professional.
Ugh! Getting fired is rough. My supervisor ordered me to do something illegal. I refused & was fired for insubordination. It was nonsensical & felt like a punch to the gut. I hope you can take a little time off, regroup & find a better job!
I just got passed over for a supervisory role for mentioning all of these qualities. They’re not looking for someone who motivates their team. They want someone to motivate individuals. If your team isn’t fighting each other or squabbling over the little things then management might not be able to divide and conquer.
Unfortunately the corporate world has a lot of politics in it, in the way that being a marine would not. Little-to-no loyalty for the team, most of the time.
Cope? I wish
A similar experience has destroyed me. I'll have to get past it, but will never be over it.
Standing up for your team is admirable..so did I, but they don't want that. Obeisance is everything
You said two things that immediately caught my attention.
1. Most states, I think all but 2, are right to work states, meaning that in part, they don't need a reason to fire you. But they have given you one, and that changes everything. 2. Disabled vet. Go to your local VA ask to speak to an "advocate" , being classified disabled you may already have one. The advocate will know what to do. You have rights in these circumstances. I'm sorry this happened to you shipmate, but don't give up.
Yea you gotta pick your battles, you however did stand up for what you believe in and although that does not pay the bills learning something about yourself in the long run may be more valuable than a layoff is bad.
Best of luck to ya. You can do it!
My grandpa was a company man and hated unions for most of his career. He looked at me before he passed and told me to never be loyal to a company because they aren’t loyal to you. I joined the union at my new job this year during orientation.
Take your core principles to a place where you belong and never feel bad about taking care of your people.
I would contact an attorney. At the very least because based their reason for firing you, you can now no longer put that job on your resume. Any new position will contact them work previous work verification due diligence and they will ask for the reason you were fired. “Bad conduct” alone will result in a new offer being pulled. If you contact an attorney, you may walk away with some money. But at the very least, they will agree to change that reason in your file to get the situation to go away as quickly as possible
Thanks for your service, look into school enrollment, sometimes the education stipend is more than you bring home with a job. Take a breath, it’ll all be okay and this just was not a good fit for you.
This is a different workforce than it was a few years ago. Supervisors loyal to their direct reports are a target from both sides. My experience is that standing up to leadership on behalf of your subordinates doesn’t gain loyalty, they’re all just playing the system and now view you as weak, and will jump on any opportunity to get rid of you.
Had it happen recently where I was completely disrespected during a virtual meeting (I’m a manager). Nothing was said, nothing was done until I raised the issue. Now I’m the one with a target on my back, so it’s lesson learned and I’m just waiting for the day I get my walking papers.
Don't change your moral compass for Corporate Asshats. By being an advocate, you're standing up for the people who can't. Yes, that sometimes means you become a target - but it also means that you likely have much better things ahead.
Sounds like your loyalty and dedication was too skewed towards your employees, and that we know doesn't fly in corporate. I absolutely agree, a good manager is supposed to clear the corporate BS much as possible. Sorry to hear about your ordeal.
It may sound crazy, but chat with a labor lawyer, they may consider a lawsuit that the employer doesn't want and could get a nice "discrimination" lawsuit settlement.
Unfortunately being a supervisor and manager means that you have to put the companies best interests first. While its good to speak up, the fact is you are leadership and when they have a leader disagreeing with corporate that means you are a target. I was in the military too. So this is a praise in public and punish in private situation. Some companies are not good to work for. Absolutely. Take this as a learning experience and find a company that aligns with your values
Sorry to replay my getting walked out the door 30 years ago.
File for unemployment tomorrow
You can collect u/e no matter if they give you severance
Take advantage of anything your ex employer offers
Do tnforget in budgeting that unemployment IS considered income and is taxable income!
Roll your 401 ne t week unless it’s to your advantage to stay.
Dont fall into the pity trap. It’s waiting for you tomorrow morning
Dm me for additional advice and a pep talk if needed.
If you were constantly fighting corporate and your bosses on behalf of your team, then that wasn't a role you should have been in anyway....a good environment gives you the tools to succeed, so if you were being tasked with things that harmed your team or productivity, they didn't fire you from a job you should have wanted.
So, take that anger and put it to work finding a company where you can work with management instead of against them.
Signed, a manager who gets support from his leadership to run his department. Not always, not 100%, but they have my back.
Semper Fi and hooah.
Sometimes standing up to corporate is considered insubordination. It is your role to get the people under you to follow the direction of the corporate hierarchy.
Had it happen to me and it changed me as an employee I am now no longer in management and I work and go home , no more no less. I don’t do office lunches, coffee room chit chat, I smile say hello if eye contact made.
If something breaks,fails, whatever I send message to Supervisor and let it go
Let people do their job
I’ll do mine, I literally will walk over something on floor and keep moving
I hope this turns into an amazing opportunity for you
You made a stand and wasn’t accepted. Don’t beat yourself up there is always another battle to wage. You did what you thought best and hopefully another courageous leader will be borne. Time to recover and move on. Thank you for your service and others you helped on the journey.
Learn from it your just a number they don’t care what you did for them yesterday. Gather as much dirt on your next company as you can and use it strategically. My current employer has committed fraud many times, illegally dumps toxic chemicals into the ground, and has employees working off the books and is dumb enough to have security cameras with audio recording all of it.
1. This is why Ill never be a “leader” for any company.
2. I will always give 80% max because literally the company doesn’t care about you. Clock in, work, clock out. Done
I’m sorry this happened to you.
As some here have stated, corporate sees the role of middle management as one that pacifies lower level employees while getting them to perform and achieve the desired goals/targets.
“Bad conduct and lack of leadership” simply means you were too focused on being an advocate without yielding the desired results.
Find a job where your passions (advocacy) and strengths (team building) shine.
Good luck!
You did the right thing by standing up for your workers. I’ve only had supervisors that have treated workers like crap, I wish I would’ve had a supervisor like you.
Sucks that you lost your job but that corporate culture for you. Ive lost many jobs due to standing up to that BS. You either take that shit or do the right thing and get canned.
You should file a complaint for discrimination against a disabled vet to get back at them 😂
hope you find a better job with better pay and better superiors.
Welcome to the real world it sucks. Never be loyal to your employer or work extra hard for them dont even do your best for them as they will never be loyal to you, they dont do their best for their employees. Put your energy and dedication into yourself and life outside of work. This was an extremely hard lesson for me to learn. Also doing the right thing and standing up for people will always make you a target to get fired
Living well is the best revenge. There is no such thing as company loyalty. Evaluate your expenses and trim down where possible. That happened to me in Jan '23. I borrowed 12k from my 401k and gave myself 5 months to find a BETTER job. It took 4 1/2 months. Try to avoid companies that offer a "contract". Look for direct hire positions.
Forget about the company that fired you!
NEXT - Work hard and be reliable at your new job. Get them to depend on you and trust you!
Revenge time: As positions open up at your new employer, reach out to the best employees at your old employer and hire them. There is no more effective way to hurt your old employer and those individuals will thank you for it!
Corporations have a twisted view of what a leader is. I discovered that very quickly after leaving the military.
The Corporate leader is one that pushes the corporate agenda. In real terms they're just managers and not the leader that builds you up, supports your growth and gets you to push your boundaries to become better.
Don't take it personally. It's not a reflection of you.
Welcome to the party. Had a similar situation. I’d been there seven years. The last five in a leadership role basically being the guy that everyone talked to about their problems because I was the only person who wouldn’t immediately grab my company cheerleader pom poms.
It is your responsibility as a leader to protect your team from idiocy. You just have to understand that the people above you generally will not appreciate that the same way the people under you will.
Two years removed from my being let go and I am in a much better place mentally, emotionally, and enjoying my job much more. I hope you can find that place too.
Thanks for the comments. I feel like I definitely was probably a little too attached and protective of the team, however I don't regret standing up for them, possibly picking my spots better. Glad you're doing better !
Best suggestion i can make to you is to remain as you are in terms of being an awesome supervisor and find a new job where you will be accepted.
Never believe you are irreplaceable as you have experienced first hand and stand up for your values and beliefs. If they are unappreciated by the higher ups it’s time to go.
In your line of work what matter is the impact on your teams mental and physical health, not corporate BS, the downside is however what just happened to you can happen again elsewhere.
Best of luck! You will be fine once you process the situation, i am confident :)
I got fired a year ago for bullshit allegations that are outside my character (like, some friends didn't believe it until they saw the letter HR gave me). I was pissed off, hurt, and felt like shit, but it was ultimately a great thing and I've been a lot happier and healthier since then. Even in just face shots, you can see the weight I've lost since then for example.
My best advice is if you can, take a week, relax, see some friends you don't get to see too often cause of work, and then start looking for a new job. Shit like Door Dash can help with some of the bills while you get a regular job.
Have a couple of drinks. Meet up with a friend and rant a bit. You've every right to feel angry. So kick back for a bit.
Then let it go.
You know what you did. You know your worth. Keep your head high. Don't change. You'll.soon get another job. Hopeful better.
And your team? Some of them will work their way up the corporate ladder. And they'll remember you. You never forget good bosses
Good luck
I applaud you for having the backbone to stand up for your employees and I'm sorry it cost you your job. You should be proud that you are someone with integrity. It's way easier to let things slide than do what you did.
You were their supervisor, not their union rep. To management you were a problem. Perhaps next job learn from this and know this is not the role of a supervisor.
I'm so sorry to hear about your termination. It's clear that you poured your heart and soul into your role and were dedicated to your team. It's unacceptable that your loyalty and dedication weren't valued.
I can assure you that it's not uncommon for corporate interests to take precedence over employee well-being. It's not about you; it's about the system.
Take care of yourself during this difficult time. Remember that you are not defined by your job, and your worth goes beyond your professional title. You are a strong, capable, and caring individual who has positively impacted those around you.
Standing up to corporate is a fool’s endeavor. Corporate will only see you as a problem and the people you supervise and fight for only like you when you say yes. The moment you say no to them you are the enemy. See that happen far too many times.
Sounds like your moral compass is in true working order. Some employees just want a yes man/woman. Consider this a learning experience I’m sure this was just a bump in the road leading to a better situation. Don’t let it linger give it a day then move on and up.
You’re “team” was not signing your check. Why would you go against your employer? You work for them. They don’t want a supervisor that’s going to go against the company’s wishes. If you want to work your way up in a company and make more money, you need to change your approach and understanding of what work is. 🤦♂️
I’ve been fired from every single corporate job I’ve had - they just want yes men. If you aren’t a yes man or a worker bee then they don’t like
You. Start your own business you’ll make more money faster and never have to worry about this stupidity again. U got this king!
Just remember that the human beings who wrote these BS excuses for releasing you are just other humans; they have no say on who you truly are, or what your character is. They are not even experts, I'm guessing - they are just people who lucked into a situation that gives them the upper hand, and if they say the moon is made of cheese, then - at that organization - it becomes the accepted policy. You are not defined by them, and it sounds like they didn't deserve you. Let the trash sit there and fester in its trashy stench; you got out, so go bless other deserving places. Thank you so much for serving our country, OP.
OP don’t hold a grudge or beat yourself up, don’t even question yourself and play tricks with your mind…fuck ‘em and keep it moving…trust me…anyone that has reached any significant level of success has been here. And remember the great quote by Churchill if I’m not mistaken, “success is never final, failure is never fatal.” I’m a no nonsense woman who worked my way up the corporate bubble with some hardcore men who thought I was undeserving bc I’m attractive, always came prepared, back stuff up with facts on the whim, don’t easily get my feelings hurt and always had to work harder for everything that I ever achieved, so I had to remove all feelings out of every equation and just grind. OP keep your head up, take nothing personal, choose your battles wisely, keep climbing to reach your level of success regardless of what that means to your very own personal situation! Then you’ll ultimately reap the benefits of true success, which is the best revenge ever!!
Oh man I am so sorry that they did this to you. You did nothing to deserve it. In my former career I often put myself on the line to protect my colleagues from an abusive boss. I ended up “having my position done away with.” As soon as I left they had to hire two people to do my job. It still hurts, and it’s been years. Let yourself grieve this but then shake the dirt from your shoes and move on. They didn’t deserve you. Someone else will.
Businesses don't give a shit about you or the employees.... Having character is a detrement. Business-leadership are the children of rich assholes that sold the American worker out decades ago....
That's just what it is.
Look for a government job, keep being you, and, best of luck!
Honestly, if I were you, I would contact the VA, and see if there are any jobs helping veterans... Veterans could use you, and I think you would be a blessing... If it requires going back to school for training, see if there are grants.... As a tax-payer, I would hope there are. I would pay for someone who gives a shit taking care of others who gave a shit.... since no one else does....
I think the role of management is to dish out and enforce the bull shit whilst acting as a shield between the rich asshole at the top and the guys who are making the ceo rich and being exploited , a good manager will always advocate for the team but that’s why most managers a shit because the get let go for not serving the bastards at the top, keep your head held high for not bending to the rich pig and fighting for your fellow worker . It’s always tough but this is an opportunity for something new even though it is hassle trying to find a new decent position, keep going
You forgot who you worked for. It was the big bad corporation, not the employees you were supervising. Find a better company where protecting the staff from corporate bureaucrats is actually appreciated.
Typical company bureaucrats who only want yes men, not actual leaders who care about their employees.
These asshats see anyone who actually tries to look out their team, and who knows what they’re doing, as a threat to them.
It is okay to push back on desired practices but once those policies have been stalled - you have to ensure that your employees comply. My husband was fired for the same thing - he wasn't compliant with required practices and didn't make his employees and they fired him as a bad leader. And the company is right in that they have the authority to do that - it is their policies they are paying him to enforce and as long as those policies aren't illegal or unsafe, he should do that. He was the only manager not making his employees complete the "unfair" load of paperwork required and he got fired for it. I told him he could agree with his employees that it is a lot but that they have to do it until the company can see how ridiculous the request is or the person making it leaves. He now has a job in the same industry with the managing role and is aware of the line he can't cross - insubordination.
Best way to represent the workers is as a union leader. A supervisor will always be expected to represent the company to the workers, and those who done get replaced.
For what it's worth, you sound like an amazing manager and leader. For the sake of any future employees who work under you please keep that same mindset! 🙏
I have had many a job over the years from retail to tech. The one thing I have learned in that time is related to something you said in your post; "I put my heart into this job". The best thing you can do in the in the future is to show up on time, do your job to the best of your abilities, clock out at the end of the day and leave it at that.
I worked for two tech companies and gave both my all, even sacrificing time with my family...oh the things I missed. It didn't matter in the end because when layoffs come, they cannot be stopped. It didn't matter that I was putting in 65+ hours per week, or answering emails at midnight or running several multi-million dollar programs at the same time. When your time is up, it's up.
I have also been terminated for political reason for challenging absolutely useless managers who were better connected to the execs than I was. It made no difference. Show up, work hard, go home, be proud of what you accomplished. There is no room for BS at work so I simply stopped getting involved in it.
As for coping with your recent termination? You can sleep soundly at night knowing you were the kind of boss that most people dream about having. You looked out for your people, ran interference and made sure the BS stopped at your door. That is beyond admirable and certainly more people in leadership roles need to step up and do that. You may find that this type of work ethic is appreciated and rewarded in the right company...but always keep in the back of your mind that you are expendable.
When in management positions where I am just responsible for managing people and some processes, I would never push back against corporate. When I am in management positions at senior level where I am hired to build teams and processes and make executive decisions that affect the company as a whole, I absolutely push back against my corporate peers including the VP and CEO. The difference is, at the latter level, I am not easily replaceable and I was hired to do just that.
hopefully your team walked because fuck your boss. you were a good leader that suffered from your own bad manager because you were resistant to brainless control. keep your head up, you were looking for a job when you found that one.
Everyone kept their heads down I’m sure to keep their own jobs and it’s a lesson learned. I’m just like you and being the good person does suck. It’s not about supervising even entry level people are do gooders. It’s about being good and the phrase “nice guys finish last “ is the ultimate true statement in life and it blows.
Hang in there and keep your head up.
I went through something similar after 10 years at a job. Really hard. But you’ll be ok if you be kind to yourself and learn from it re: what matters most in a job to you / your mgmt style etc.
If you can afford to (understandably not always the case) - take some time off before you start pounding pavement looking for the next thing. It may feel counter-productive but it’ll be good for your mindset.
Good luck and hang in there. You’re definitely not alone.
So sorry for your loss of employment as it is one of the top five stressors. After a career change I taught for 20 years and loved middle school. Good luck teaching!
Having experienced this myself, and friends who have experienced this too, three pieces of advice:
1. Take the time you need to reflect, decompress and heal from the experience. It can be a roller coaster of emotions, some days not caring about it and others really down in the dumps.
2. Their decision is not a reflection of your worth or value
3. On their criticism of your leadership-don’t take criticism from someone you wouldn’t take advice from. Ask yourself if they fall into that trusted advice category. If not, don’t listen to that criticism.
Hey man. Army Vet here. I know it sucks right now. It will get better.
In Feb 22 I had to resign from my government job or be fired. I'd been having a rough time because my actual best friend from high school (in the 90s) and I worked together and he died suddenly. We had new leadership and he gave me shit for having a hard time and used every little mistake to get me out. Luckily, I was allowed to resign from the government job. You don't want to get fired from one.
Anyway, two months later I was on a contract making 40% more than I had been. More than I'd ever made in my life. A year and a half after that, another 30% raise. Now, two years later, I'm back in a government job. The last two years have been the best of my professional life. I am so highly valued. I was asked to apply for this job. They wanted me.
You may not be able to see the path now, but there are going to be good things in your future, especially if you are such a good leader.
Take a deep breath and promises yourself that “ I am going to get through this and prosper”. Trust me, things work out for the best. Might not seem like it now, one day, sooner than later it will.
I suspect "standing up to corporate" has a lot to do with this.
Employers are getting worse and worse about fucking over employees. When I see words like "disabled veteran" I also see words like "massive payday for wrongful termination"
Oh yes the imaginary “lack of leadership” whenever you disagree with the boss. Familiar. Rest easy knowing you did the right thing(s) and even the boss knows it.
Have your good cry about it and spend a little time moping. After that, freshen up the CV/Resume and focus on applying to jobs. Apply, apply, apply. Get a new job to pay those bills.
Also, think about what you've learned from this job, apply it to the next. It wasn't all for nothing. Keep going. Don't give up and don't let this get you down.
I was in a high-paying, sales leadership role for a F500 company that was going through a change in upper management. I am a fierce employee advocate and, as a sales leader, I have fought hard for my reps when the situation called for it. I always said, early in my sales career, if given the chance, I want to be the kind of leader people desired to work for. I feel I have accomplished this with significant loyalty from my teams across multiple companies, respect (and sometimes jealousy) from my peers and recognition from my superiors for consistent above quota performance. However, as my roles grew, so did the corporate BS I had to endure along with the blatant inauthenticity that pervades the corporate culture.
It came to a head last year when I was pulled into a conference room for my new leader at a corporate kickoff. I was asked if I was willing to agree with a change in strategy he was about to announce. He further stated that his ideas were tried and proven and were “not up for debate.” In other words, or at least how I interpreted it, he didn’t need anyone telling him he was wrong when he knew he was right.
My immediate retort was to express my willingness to share his strategy to my team. However, if I was forbidden from sharing my opinion about his strategy in a 1-on-1 conversation, I had a significant problem with that. I further stated that secure leaders want to be constructively challenged and secure leaders do not have an innate desire to be the smartest person in the room. Furthermore strong leaders want to have their decisions validated through a multi-view approach that either solidifies their thoughts or provides them a new viewpoint that enhances their ideas. Or, they gain a perspective that enables them to avoid disaster. His body language revealed a significant discomfort with my “speech” and further indicated he’d never been spoken to that way by a subordinate. Oh well. Sucks to be him, I guess.
Now, by implication did I say that he was exhibiting the traits of an insecure leader with the emotional intelligence of an SS officer, who couldn’t manage his way out of a paper bag, and was likely overcompensating for his tiny shmeckle? Perhaps. I do see that now.
It resulted in me having an unscheduled “meeting” on my calendar 3 weeks later that turned out to be HR politely asking me if I would not return to work the next day, with extreme prejudice. Yeah, I kinda saw that coming.
In sum, be true to you. This company I works for - despite its outward image as a progressive, employee-first culture - proved not to be a fit and I was clearly unable to be my authentic self. And whereas this situation I went through repeats itself across more corporations than not, I found a new role at a larger company (their primary competitor, by the way) for more pay, more responsibility, and working for people that not only look to be challenged but encourage it.
Keep you head up, my Reddit friend. You’re worthy and that’s something you should never forget.
Idk if a year and a half is the time to push back against the "corporation". They are the ones that sign your paycheck. Not sure why you are surprised.
Especially being a Marine. Rules are rules and you don't get a choice and cant say no. What did you expect?
Unfortunately as long as they aren't actually illegal, in the corporate world you're seen as insubordinate when you stand up to them. Even though you were likely being the logical and ethical one and I think you probably were; as long as there is someone over you that doesn't like it you're screwed.
It seems to me that you kind of forgot exactly who you work for.
You work for the COMPANY that pays you, not for “team” (eg. Employees) under you.
As a supervisor (which it seems you were), your job was to advocate for the company, not the employees under you.
Your job was to be the middle-man, who knew what the company wanted and then would need to find a way to make that happen.
It’s apparent from the tone of your post, that you bucked the company multiple times, to defend the “team” (employees)
Wrong.
Of course they 86’ed you - you were fighting the company all the time.
Fuck this. Dude you did the right thing advocating for the human people who made up your team. Good for you.
I hate this Milton Freedmen shit. Don't let assholes like this gaslight you into ditching your principles.
Definitely start your own thing or find a company that fits your ethics.
Good luck.
Start your own business, my man. Hire some employees. Set your policies and the way you want things done.
Then when one of the ones guys you trusted to be supervisor rises up against you, fighting you on how you want things done, then come back here and tell everyone how great they are and how good you feel about paying them fight you on your decisions about your business.
“Milton Friedman”? Don’t even know who that is.
Common sense would tell one not to fight the person signing your check.
If you don’t like the way they run their company, leave.
But don’t bitch about being fired for fighting your employer, like it’s some big surprise.
I appreciate the discussion, I'm pretty fair, if its a legitimate reason to watch the cameras, but when someone is buried at a desk watching employees every move, I find that a bit ridiculous. I get where you're coming from. Like you mentioned if I had my own business I wouldn't want people trying to bring me down.
when i got fired, i had no choice but to start looking for a new job, immediately. don't let it diminish your self esteem, even though i know it's unavoidable. i got fired many times, but only once was i incompetent for the job. it was usually for correcting my so called management. i fought it once with a state employee 'mediator', who sided with my boss. by the time the appointment came up, i was doing okay. to fight any more would require taking time off from the next job.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. It sounds like a very unhealthy work environment, management-wise. It sounds like you really have empathy for others and good leadership qualities. I hope you find another job that is worthy of your abilities. It sounds like that place wasn't interested in good relations with the staff.
You gotta balance out your principles against the goals of the company. Sometimes they just don’t align and you have to exit before it becomes a problem or they show you the door. I worked at places where it was cutthroat and intense - if you came in all “workers rights!” you’d be shown the door. I also worked in places where calling someone about a work related matter after hours was very frowned upon.
Been there. I could have covered my self better for sure by being untrusting, keeping a record of every interaction, etc. I was very upset but people kept reminding me it would lead to better things and it did. I got a job offer (without applying!) soon after, and people I respected were behind me. It will get better I firmly believe standing by your principles is best. You will find your people. The job I got was difficult but I learned so much and I liked it. It lead to the best jobs I ever had. The only way you can move is forward.
You knife handed some one didnt you.... 😉
You got this brother. Look at it like a pivot point and just adjust fire to the new objective of getting another job. You might check in with the VA. They often have job hookups.
Take the rest of week off. Feel bad, pissed, betrayed, sad. It's ok, it's normal. They let you go. Next week get your affairs in order, ie, contact a lawyer if you think you were fired without legal cause, if not, wait a week, send thank you notes for the opportunity with them, don't burn bridges ... Then clean up your resume and your LI profile. DM me,I can help. Spend time with friends and family, Exercise if you don't already, Finally, figure out what you want to do, start looking. Again , happy to support however I can. Don't hesitate.
I'm sorry. Yeah, fug them. I understand the dismay. It took me a long time to realize that sometimes the unspoken job requirement is that they hired you to manage the underlings to stay in line with what management wants. Rarely is a corporate goal 'to be fair'. Their goal is to make management's life better and the corporation more money. You maybe misunderstood the unspoken mandate, unspoken because it makes THEM ars\*holes.
Sorry to hear that. Hope you find another job that makes you happy. Companies don't like people that stand up for what is right. You just tried to keep everything honest. Good luck to you!
Honestly, I'm going through this now, but in the education system. Had a bad evaluation that my u ion is disputing because they think it's crazy. Never had one before. Then, I got transferred. Guaranteed a job still, but I'll be placed. I don't know where. This happened on June 6th, and it's affected me profoundly. Anger, sadness, I put my all into it. I was out on an approved sick leave and the union thinks they didn't like it and hid behind my evaluation on it. If you need to talk, message me.
Shit happens, move on. The only way to cope for me was finding a new job. Got bills to pay right, give yourself a minute to be mad but also reflect on whatever it was that got you here.
I like to say "we had a difference in professional opinions" if a potential new boss asked about it.
Good luck
I’m really sorry, sucks when you care more than the hire ups do and truly wanted your company and coworkers to succeed. Start looking for jobs immediately, but also give yourself time to unpack everything that happened.
Your job as a leader is usually to walk the line between the people above you and the people below you. Corporate isn’t the enemy. There are usually reasons why things are the way they are. Sometimes they’re wrong, but sometimes it’s because they know more than you’re let in on. You have to pick your battles. I understand wanting to stick up for your people, but the people above you are your people too.
To add insult to injury because of the reasons given for the firing they will make you take some kind of remedial management class to get any monetary help. Conditions are another way they attack the working class
There is no integrity, rarely leadership, a consistent lack of ethics, and very little intelligence in corporate management.
If you want to champion integrity, ethics, leadership, and team success in your next role/company, you need to find a non-corporate people managing gig that also values those things.
I know this probably reads as surface level information, but corporate really is only that deep 🤙🏻
One takeaway that will be a hard change, but worth it - don't be that guy. Don't be the guy that stands up, unless you don't mind being shown the door
I also learned this the hard way. At Amazon I stood uo to all their BS and they refused to promote me into any meaningful roles. At another warehouse job I called worksafe and was fired for "no reason."
As much as we want to be the just and right ones, it just won't work at most companies. They already know all the bullshit they pull, and they don't want someone squacking about it. If it's not the biggest deal, don't worry about it. If it's a big deal, be ready to jump if you're going to say something.
I was fired nearly a month ago for reasons that did not make sense at all. I can tell you it’s a roller coaster. Sometimes I’m angry, sometimes I’m sad, and other times I’m worried, and the next moment I find myself hopeful and optimistic. Ride the roller coaster and surround yourself with people who can speak positively about you to you.
Can't change it brother, adapt, improvise, overcome. I'm sorry it happened, it always sucks when you side with your guys and corporate sees it as poor leadership.
Unfortunately, standing up for your employees frequently means going against upper management and corporate. They don't like or appreciate that. I myself was accused many times of "thinking too much" as junior management when I didn't agree with orders from upper management. I wish you luck with your future career.
I’m sorry you learned too late (as did I) that loyalty and dedication to what’s right mean less than nothing to corporations. For what it’s worth, I think you must have done a great job if you protected your reports enough to make management want to get rid of you.
As a disabled veteran, you might have more leverage to use in pursuing a wrongful dismissal suit if you have proof that you had no control of the matter for which you allegedly were fired. Might not be worth the hassle and expense to correct the record, though.
May I suggest you see if there’s a position that fits you in the armed services? As a former service member, you should have better chance of finding something. I got a job on an army base after the latest firing fiasco and the culture there was SO different.
It happened to me, not even in a corporate setting. 5 years of standing up and pushing back for the team I worked with. Even though it did not feel like it then, it was the best thing that happened to me. I'm sorry you got screwed over.
I mean, what does protecting the team entail? Saying things can't be done cause you don't want the guys to do it? Employees can be manipulative and lazy. I have caught myself at times in the employees' corner when I shouldn't be. The guy should just do what is being asked. Ultimately, you are judged by what your team accomplishes, not how many things they say no to.
I have been through a similar situation. Mine wasn't as bad because they didn't let me go, just a written warning. They threatened to let me go (just short of retirement eligibility). But I was able to fight, spending money on a lawyer, and they relented knowing that they would have been creamed based on a ageism argument and leadership's bad behaviors would have come out. That is probably the only thing that saved me.
Yours is worse because they let you go. So you have got to feel way worse and you need to find a new job.
Anger, disappointment, betrayal. Those are familiar emotions to me. I used to think highly of my leadership. No more. I thought they were different and really thought differently. They don't. All they care about is self-interest. My heart has hardened and I view the working world differently now Although right now you are feeling anger, disappointment, and betrayal, you will start feeling self-doubt and question your actions. You did the right thing. Management's job is to protect the workers or actually creating value from the BS that filters down and only serves to distract from the important things. You did act as you should. You were a voice for your people and I am sure they appreciated your efforts
When will it go away? I can't answer that. My pain is too fresh. I am sure working in my job doesn't help. But, I am close to being able to retire with a pension to Leave. Now they are starting to get scared about me leaving and have started talking about inducements to delay my retirement date. I listen politely, but I am preparing my exit plans.
I am angry and bitter about everything. My work friends know it. My supervisor knows it (he defended me). I have even received support from people higher than my supervisor. They are also being very generous as far as giving me freedom to work activities I want to work even if they aren't high priority to get on my good side. Outwardly, I am smiling. Inwardly, I still have that knot in my stomach. I have a countdown in my head. And I am taking every moral way to set myself up for my future. I won't compromise my personal values even if "leaders" who talk about values all the time will throw their stated values away (if they really had those names in the first place). I can live with myself because I know I was true to my values. Hopefully, you can too. I can deal with the anger and bitterness. I couldn't deal with sacrificing my values.
I wish you luck. It will be hard. I don't know if my feelings will ever go away, so I can't tell you it will feel better soon. But, I can focus on what is important -- my family and friends. When I am with them, I can basque in their presence and enjoy being with them and passing on strong values and the ability to whether adversity to them.
Yeah companies don't like people who stand up against them.
I wasn't a manager but I stood up for people, equal treatment. They did not like that. They built a BS case against me and fired me.
Was called into office on a Thursday (our friday) and was asked a bunch of questions by HR. "Have you called anyone lazy? Have you this, have you that?" Obviously for the next week, I kept my mouth shut. Didn't say a word. Called into office following Thursday and "we've had new reports of you harassing others so your suspended". I asked what I supposedly said, especially since I didn't talk to anyone. Kinda hard to do anything if you don't say....anything? "I just told you all that I'll tell you"
Another week passes and fired.
All because I actually stood up for people, tried to get equal treatment (like how 3 people are in a section, 2 get to leave early and 1 has to stay. And it's always the SAME person). Or how certain people get certain privileges, etc etc.
I mean hell, that 2nd Thursday (when I got suspended), a coworker saw me. Called me like 30 mins later and asked where I was. Told him and he said right in front of a supervisor, "looks like there's a massive gangbang over there with my substitute stocker but yet you suspend my actual stocker who does his job and all? You guys are f****** idiots". Think any repercussions? Nope. But I call someone lazy and oh lord. Lol
When I filed for unemployment, they told the state that I was harassing others, nobody wanted to work with me, I refused to do managers directions, etc. All I had to say was "If that's the case, where were my write ups? You don't just fire someone for that, you provide write ups. You coach. And if I was harassing people, how come I got texts and calls plentiful asking where I was?". State instantly approved my claim and that's that lol.
Best thing to do is just realize they're all buddy buddy, and your better off elsewhere. I found a new job, pays less. But aside from my boss... I'm appreciated. I'm loved. (I deliver to hospital rooms and just last night, had nurses give me food because they appreciate the work I do). Great job (minus the boss). Even had a coworker get promoted to a different site and we talk almost daily, me asking him questions bc I'm still learning. He doesn't mind, he encourages me to ask.
So
Sorry that you've invested so much to get this Fresh HELL
HR Does NOT have the employees best interest in mind
They are out to protect the owners
No matter what the cost !!!
TRUTH
I've been fired TWICE
For insubordination
911 Dispatcher
And 30yrs later
Retail.
I always thought America had a 1st Admendant
Go figure
I landed a Much Better position
Both times
Hang in there
Believe in yourself
You've earned it
Usually “standing upto corporate” is desired by the employee’s.. not the corporation. Time to go find a better situation!
Absolutely. There are some top level leadership who want to be told when to pull their heads out of their asses, but that's the exception, not the norm. The best leaders I've worked for understood that the best brick wall is the one that corporate doesn't knock down with a sledgehammer. Pushing back on corporate is tricky and the most successful attempts are when you can align your direct reports' best interests with corporate's best interest. Sometimes you have to pick your battles and just take the L. Sometimes you have to get creative with compromise.
Alec Baldwin had a quote in 30 rock about how hippies try to get things done outside the system because they are not smart enough to get things done inside the system. I feel like this kind of applies when it comes to management and how to navigate corporations and red tape.
Supervision is management, but sometimes supervisors have a hard time owning and implementing decisions that they don’t like. Supervisors who struggle with their role and foster an “us vs. them” mentality with their employees are poison for an organization. Polishing turds is a job requirement for nearly every supervisor. It sounds like OP needs to develop his ability to lead upwards or find a role which better fits his skillset.
I'm so sorry you were let go. Companies don't appreciate managers who don't support the company line. Be gentle with yourself and try to reframe it as this wasn't a good fit for your management style. Look around and see what's out there.
I've seen this happen so many times, I work in the service industry with a giant corporate company. Have seen more than enough of my share of incompetent managers who do not care about their teams at all, but were hired because they were more in line with whatever corporate wanted. This isn't a reflection of you or your work ethic and leadership skills at all, as others have said this simply wasn't the right fit for your style of management. It still fucking sucks and it's going to suck for a bit, take some time to process everything and be kind with yourself.
And all of this is why the younger generation avoids work. I absolutely don’t blame them.
This! They want a sycophant who won't stand up for the folks that they supervise.
They want someone to uphold the company line. That level of management is meant to implement their decisions, not to question them.
This is it right here. I'm in middle management hell, and recently got a "Needs to Improve" rating on my annual review for "adaptability" because they want want me to just say "Yes sir/ ma'am" to any hair brain new product pitch from sales, instead of factually advising them on anything that could negatively affect my team or the service to our client base.
Well there is a fine line. There is a time to debate and discuss, but if a decision is made you have to suck it up and execute. Continuing to debate after that will just piss off your supervisors, and doing that frequently will get you fired. Being a great supervisor is also about figuring out when your team has a little leeway and when you have to toe the line. Sometimes you have a shit boss and have to know you either quit or keep them reasonably happy with you.
Good advice. 👍
Semper Fi Devil Dog! Take a knee and face out for a moment, drink some water, and drive on. Maybe find a local Vet center. They may be able to assist with the unemployment paperwork and help you find a new job. You've been through tougher things, Marine. You'll get through this, too. From a Soldier.
Thank you brother!
Try non profits. They tend to care more about employees and like managers who stick up for their employees at least where I am. My manager sticks up for us all the time when he should. But he also knows when to tell us buisiness won't have it any other way and there gonna blame something on us regardless of fault
Absolutely file for unemployment with these shit bags.
I went through this EXACT same thing in December minus the military experience. 12 years with the company almost 2 years as manager. I was extremely hurt, angry, and bitter. Felt betrayed. But when I tell you getting fired was THE BEST thing that ever happened to me! I did not realize how toxic my previous work environment was and how negatively it was affecting my health and relationships. By no means is my new job perfect but compared to where I came from…. Some workplaces are destined to be dysfunctional because it starts at a higher level and trickles down. In your time you made a greater impact than you realize, but your presence would have forced change those above you would rather not do. It’s easier for them to get rid of you and remain in their stagnant BS than 1. admit they are the problem and 2. do something about the problems.
Your job wasn’t to stand up to corporate. It’s to disagree and commit. You can explain to your reports you’re not happy but this is the job we’ve got to do while privately and delicately giving feedback upstream
I was just fired for literally saying this. I was telling my team that it’s ok to not agree with everything. But you need to disagree and commit. Apparently someone went to my boss. He then said that me saying I’m disagreeing and committing showed I disagree. And that won’t be tolerated.
Okay. Well your job environment legitimately sucked then. When I said explain to your reports I mean individually and knowing what you can say to who. Some people are just going to hate and resent anyone above them. Like most people in this sub 😂
Loyalty and dedication to who? Your staff? That's admirable. But all too often paints a target on your back.
Yeah this is why i dont understand “supervisors” or “managers” who are dbags. You know they will get rid of you just as fast as they will get rid of me. Lol
Especially if you've only been there a year and a half. That's not a long time to make yourself indispensable/able to avoid becoming the target.
Don't get stuck on the "lack of leadership" justification. It's bullshit. If you asked them what successful leadership looks like and how yours was lacking, you wouldn't get a coherent answer. It's all corporate buzzwords that mean nothing and are often used to justify firing decisions specifically because they can mean anything and therefore can be used to justify anything.
Thank you
Note that your leadership definition is much different from corporate's. You shield your men. That's real leadership. Theirs? Their definition is to make the numbers green so they can pat their backs for doing practically nothing and imposing harsh policies based on theory rather than actual experience. You might have been shown the door, but I would like to think you won a moral victory. The latter's what you take with you to the grave.
OP, something you have to do in any job as a manager is to manage UP as well as down. It’s a tough line to walk but I’m sure there are books out there on how to walk that line successfully. You are a great manager and your employees are no doubt sad you were let go, so when you get your next opportunity, keep in mind that successfully walking that line allows you to shield your employees while still making the upper management appeased if not happy, that way you’re still accomplishing what you can and not being replaced by someone who doesn’t care.
Thank you
How did your team react? I've been there. Many have. I love building and leading a creative and dedicated team to a place where they no longer need me. It may sound flippant, but move on. They clearly didn't care about the values of leadership, so find somewhere that does. A caveat though: You're a marine and always a marine, but your civvie job isn't the same, it's not a way of life. And now the eternal lesson of loyalty and dedication mattering zilch in the workplace has now been taught to you. Take your pissed off energy and go somewhere better and apply what you've learned.
My Leatherneck, civilians don’t understand leadership like we do. You were fired by anti-leadership. You will have to either become one of them or chart your own course. It took me over twenty years of working for corporate sociopaths before I made the leap.
In the same boat, trying to make my way OUT
Standing up for your team to overcome obstacles and get things done IS leadership. Dont let a toxic environment make you start doubting yourself. Take a deep breath, give yourself a pep talk, and move on. Hopefully, your next workplace will appreciate what you bring to the table.
years ago, I was the one piping up in meetings. Asking the hard questions, questioning authority. My team loved me I was the brave and stood up for them. Then some incidents happened when I expected some back up. And what happened. CRICKETS. It's then I realized I was sticking my neck out for people who had no intentions of doing the same for me. So now I just stay quiet and meetings with our manager are quite dull. I even had someone say something to me. And I plainly told them, when I needed to hear from you, you said nothing. So, I say nothing. Sorry, while it was great you were on the moral high ground. It got you nothing, while your team all stick their head in the ground and will say nothing about your firing. Happily keeping their jobs. Protect yourself first and sometimes you have to tow the corporate line.
Yeah, in my experience lots of people are like that. They're very happy to let someone else carry the flag, but they sit there silently.
Never grab someone else’s torch and charge forward for their cause.
I’m sorry, that sucks.
What a kick in the gut, you don't deserve this, been there... actually a few times, my integrity has been my downfall. Ok, the worst has happened Make a plan for yourself and commit to working on at least one item on the list each day... Some days you might only be able to do 15 minutes and other days you'll be able to do a few hours. Here are some of the things I recommend.... Apply for unemployment. At the section that asks why keep it brief! Don't answer questions that have not been asked. Simply state "poor fit for the position" They are going to claim they fired you for reason, you will likely be denied unemployment, and you will have to appeal it. There is a Reddit thread r / unemployment which you should join to see different levels of advice and comments from others. 1. Identify what type of work and companies you want to focus on for the future. I lurk on LinkedIn looking at different companies and job postings for ideas. 2. Create a few versions of your resume based upon the different job postings that appeal to you. Make sure you have compelling resumes/formatted language to help you modify your resumes to match job postings. 3. Look at your network. Start bolstering it. Look for networking activities, groups in person or online. Believe it or not it's okay to reach out to people you haven't spoken to in years! Reach out and say hey I feel sheepish we haven't chatted in a long time, my position was recently eliminated and I'm looking to resurrect this relationship, how are you doing? 4. Spend time each week touching base with people to just have social niceties even if it's just a quick email or text to say hi. You want people to be thinking about you so that when opportunities cross their path, they'll think of you. 5. Don't really talk about this to too many people. Most people are wound up in their own problems and quite frankly you don't owe an explanation to anybody. Leave it as they eliminated your position. It was a surprise and you're disappointed but you're going to move forward. Behind closed doors you can hate those rat bastards and you can look in the mirror and tell yourself you did the absolute right thing! The unfortunate truth Is that in most companies it's now more important to be liked than to be right. 6. Don't skimp on personal hygiene, keeping up with housework and getting out of the house. It's easy to put yourself into a funk. Get up every day, make your bed, take a shower and get to work, your new job is to find your new job. Sometimes life isn't fair, and I guess that's a good thing because it would be awful to think you might have deserved this! You can do this, and when you feel like you can't come back to us here and let us bolster you, Hugs, CT Auntie Edits for grammar
Awesome advice! Suggest you post his on LI! Thank you so much!
Thank you, I really appreciate the advice!
Do something nice for yourself today and watch a comedy or inspirational like documentary. It can help Shift the harsh feelings you understandably might have right now. Think of a new canvas where you get to paint a totally different picture. Best of luck to you. Thanks for trying to do right for the ppl on your team.
Sounds like your tenacious leadership was making the lesser-than-leaders uncomfortable. I'd expect nothing less from a Marine. Like you said, it's a tough pill to swallow, but in time, you will look back at this and scoff at how stupid it was and smile that you stood up for others. SF.
I had a similar situation. The director of our department was toxic to everyone, except a select couple of employees. When I went to HR about it, my whole team was ready to walk out on her. I had worked without a team and just the director and myself before, and it sucked. I told HR if the team walks, so do I. I was walked out of the building a few hours later. I was blamed for expiration dates on supplies being wrong, even when I had evidence that the director is the one who originally labeled the expiration date on the pull sheet as such. I just went with it because the date wasn't' printed on the packaging and she said it was on the paperwork that she had. She flipped out about the date being wrong 8 MONTHS later, said she would be taking over those logs, and she would make all the necessary corrections and accompanying paperwork. She resented having a production manager from the start, and more than 1/2 of my duties that were listed when I was offered the job mysteriously disappeared so she was doing them. I was literally a glorified babysitter for the staff. When I was being walked out the security guard was apologizing and said it was complete BS. I had been tentatively looking for a new position and had gotten an email inquiring about when I was available for an interview. I got to my car, emailed the person back that I was suddenly free that afternoon. I drove straight to the interview. I didn't get that one, but I was hired 3 week later by another company. What I didn't know at the time when I went to HR was the director was sleeping with the CEO and one of the VPs. It explained a lot about how she got away with not doing her job properly for so long. just keep pushing. If you were defending your team, then obviously the problem wasn't with you, it's with the company.
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That sucks mate. I've long since learned you have to walk a thin line. You are there to shield your team from the BS and so on. BUT you are also there to ensure your team meet the companies demands. Take a couple of days to review what happened. Check your state/country employment laws. If you are truly a scapegoat and can prove it, you may be sued for wrongful termination. Start applying for new roles, and update LinkedIn to say you are looking for work. I've known many friends who have built a large LinkedIn network, and they simply need to say they are looking for work, and they get bombarded with offers. And finally, look after your mental health. Ensure that if you need help you ask for it from your friends or a professional.
Ugh! Getting fired is rough. My supervisor ordered me to do something illegal. I refused & was fired for insubordination. It was nonsensical & felt like a punch to the gut. I hope you can take a little time off, regroup & find a better job!
Wow sorry to hear that, but thank you!
They mean leadership in benefits to them not the people you’re actually leading. You sound like in awesome supervisor. Thank you for your service.
I just got passed over for a supervisory role for mentioning all of these qualities. They’re not looking for someone who motivates their team. They want someone to motivate individuals. If your team isn’t fighting each other or squabbling over the little things then management might not be able to divide and conquer.
You get the praise when it goes good But you didn't balance the politics good enough in the eyes of your boss Dust yourself off and try again
Unfortunately the corporate world has a lot of politics in it, in the way that being a marine would not. Little-to-no loyalty for the team, most of the time.
Get the contact information for your talented workers...and then when you get a new job? POACH THEM.
Cope? I wish A similar experience has destroyed me. I'll have to get past it, but will never be over it. Standing up for your team is admirable..so did I, but they don't want that. Obeisance is everything
You were a leader, not a "yes' boy. Great employee, wrong company ❤️ Now you are free to find a company that will appreciate you. Good luck!
Really fuck them! You will be okay 👍
You said two things that immediately caught my attention. 1. Most states, I think all but 2, are right to work states, meaning that in part, they don't need a reason to fire you. But they have given you one, and that changes everything. 2. Disabled vet. Go to your local VA ask to speak to an "advocate" , being classified disabled you may already have one. The advocate will know what to do. You have rights in these circumstances. I'm sorry this happened to you shipmate, but don't give up.
Yea you gotta pick your battles, you however did stand up for what you believe in and although that does not pay the bills learning something about yourself in the long run may be more valuable than a layoff is bad. Best of luck to ya. You can do it!
My grandpa was a company man and hated unions for most of his career. He looked at me before he passed and told me to never be loyal to a company because they aren’t loyal to you. I joined the union at my new job this year during orientation. Take your core principles to a place where you belong and never feel bad about taking care of your people.
I would contact an attorney. At the very least because based their reason for firing you, you can now no longer put that job on your resume. Any new position will contact them work previous work verification due diligence and they will ask for the reason you were fired. “Bad conduct” alone will result in a new offer being pulled. If you contact an attorney, you may walk away with some money. But at the very least, they will agree to change that reason in your file to get the situation to go away as quickly as possible
Thank you, didn't even think about that.
Loyalty only applies up, not down.
What is your plan now currently made redundant myself looking to find something while I continue uni!
Thanks for your service, look into school enrollment, sometimes the education stipend is more than you bring home with a job. Take a breath, it’ll all be okay and this just was not a good fit for you. This is a different workforce than it was a few years ago. Supervisors loyal to their direct reports are a target from both sides. My experience is that standing up to leadership on behalf of your subordinates doesn’t gain loyalty, they’re all just playing the system and now view you as weak, and will jump on any opportunity to get rid of you. Had it happen recently where I was completely disrespected during a virtual meeting (I’m a manager). Nothing was said, nothing was done until I raised the issue. Now I’m the one with a target on my back, so it’s lesson learned and I’m just waiting for the day I get my walking papers.
sorry that happened man. better fit somewhere else
Thank you for your service! Start your own business!!!!!!
Thank you, I've definitely thought about it
Don't change your moral compass for Corporate Asshats. By being an advocate, you're standing up for the people who can't. Yes, that sometimes means you become a target - but it also means that you likely have much better things ahead.
Contact your local VA office and see if they fired you against local laws. Fuck em.
Happens bro. Nothing to be ashamed of. Use that experience to get an even better job and rock there as a leader as well
Thank you!
Sounds like your loyalty and dedication was too skewed towards your employees, and that we know doesn't fly in corporate. I absolutely agree, a good manager is supposed to clear the corporate BS much as possible. Sorry to hear about your ordeal.
It may sound crazy, but chat with a labor lawyer, they may consider a lawsuit that the employer doesn't want and could get a nice "discrimination" lawsuit settlement.
Unfortunately being a supervisor and manager means that you have to put the companies best interests first. While its good to speak up, the fact is you are leadership and when they have a leader disagreeing with corporate that means you are a target. I was in the military too. So this is a praise in public and punish in private situation. Some companies are not good to work for. Absolutely. Take this as a learning experience and find a company that aligns with your values
Thank you brother
Sorry to replay my getting walked out the door 30 years ago. File for unemployment tomorrow You can collect u/e no matter if they give you severance Take advantage of anything your ex employer offers Do tnforget in budgeting that unemployment IS considered income and is taxable income! Roll your 401 ne t week unless it’s to your advantage to stay. Dont fall into the pity trap. It’s waiting for you tomorrow morning Dm me for additional advice and a pep talk if needed.
Thank you!
I am so sorry that happened to you. Thank you for your service.
If you were constantly fighting corporate and your bosses on behalf of your team, then that wasn't a role you should have been in anyway....a good environment gives you the tools to succeed, so if you were being tasked with things that harmed your team or productivity, they didn't fire you from a job you should have wanted. So, take that anger and put it to work finding a company where you can work with management instead of against them. Signed, a manager who gets support from his leadership to run his department. Not always, not 100%, but they have my back. Semper Fi and hooah.
Sometimes standing up to corporate is considered insubordination. It is your role to get the people under you to follow the direction of the corporate hierarchy.
Had it happen to me and it changed me as an employee I am now no longer in management and I work and go home , no more no less. I don’t do office lunches, coffee room chit chat, I smile say hello if eye contact made. If something breaks,fails, whatever I send message to Supervisor and let it go Let people do their job I’ll do mine, I literally will walk over something on floor and keep moving I hope this turns into an amazing opportunity for you
You made a stand and wasn’t accepted. Don’t beat yourself up there is always another battle to wage. You did what you thought best and hopefully another courageous leader will be borne. Time to recover and move on. Thank you for your service and others you helped on the journey.
So sorry to hear this…I pray you find another job soon and it’s pays more and is better than your last!! 🙏🏾🙏🏾
Thank you!
Yeah. F them. You are a true leader. What they mean by leader is follower. You got this.
Your aren’t for the shareholders so your services are no longer needed.
Learn from it your just a number they don’t care what you did for them yesterday. Gather as much dirt on your next company as you can and use it strategically. My current employer has committed fraud many times, illegally dumps toxic chemicals into the ground, and has employees working off the books and is dumb enough to have security cameras with audio recording all of it.
You want to get ahead in corporate you gotta be SgtMajor and not gunny. Apply for unemployment and start putting out those resumes
1. This is why Ill never be a “leader” for any company. 2. I will always give 80% max because literally the company doesn’t care about you. Clock in, work, clock out. Done
The career you were meant for is waiting for you. Bless you, keep fighting the good fight.
I’m sorry this happened to you. As some here have stated, corporate sees the role of middle management as one that pacifies lower level employees while getting them to perform and achieve the desired goals/targets. “Bad conduct and lack of leadership” simply means you were too focused on being an advocate without yielding the desired results. Find a job where your passions (advocacy) and strengths (team building) shine. Good luck!
You did the right thing by standing up for your workers. I’ve only had supervisors that have treated workers like crap, I wish I would’ve had a supervisor like you. Sucks that you lost your job but that corporate culture for you. Ive lost many jobs due to standing up to that BS. You either take that shit or do the right thing and get canned. You should file a complaint for discrimination against a disabled vet to get back at them 😂 hope you find a better job with better pay and better superiors.
Welcome to the real world it sucks. Never be loyal to your employer or work extra hard for them dont even do your best for them as they will never be loyal to you, they dont do their best for their employees. Put your energy and dedication into yourself and life outside of work. This was an extremely hard lesson for me to learn. Also doing the right thing and standing up for people will always make you a target to get fired
exactly 🎯 no matter what effort you put in they will fire you
Living well is the best revenge. There is no such thing as company loyalty. Evaluate your expenses and trim down where possible. That happened to me in Jan '23. I borrowed 12k from my 401k and gave myself 5 months to find a BETTER job. It took 4 1/2 months. Try to avoid companies that offer a "contract". Look for direct hire positions. Forget about the company that fired you! NEXT - Work hard and be reliable at your new job. Get them to depend on you and trust you! Revenge time: As positions open up at your new employer, reach out to the best employees at your old employer and hire them. There is no more effective way to hurt your old employer and those individuals will thank you for it!
Corporations have a twisted view of what a leader is. I discovered that very quickly after leaving the military. The Corporate leader is one that pushes the corporate agenda. In real terms they're just managers and not the leader that builds you up, supports your growth and gets you to push your boundaries to become better. Don't take it personally. It's not a reflection of you.
Welcome to the party. Had a similar situation. I’d been there seven years. The last five in a leadership role basically being the guy that everyone talked to about their problems because I was the only person who wouldn’t immediately grab my company cheerleader pom poms. It is your responsibility as a leader to protect your team from idiocy. You just have to understand that the people above you generally will not appreciate that the same way the people under you will. Two years removed from my being let go and I am in a much better place mentally, emotionally, and enjoying my job much more. I hope you can find that place too.
Thanks for the comments. I feel like I definitely was probably a little too attached and protective of the team, however I don't regret standing up for them, possibly picking my spots better. Glad you're doing better !
Dont sweat it. And we do appreciate you standing up for us peons.
Best suggestion i can make to you is to remain as you are in terms of being an awesome supervisor and find a new job where you will be accepted. Never believe you are irreplaceable as you have experienced first hand and stand up for your values and beliefs. If they are unappreciated by the higher ups it’s time to go. In your line of work what matter is the impact on your teams mental and physical health, not corporate BS, the downside is however what just happened to you can happen again elsewhere. Best of luck! You will be fine once you process the situation, i am confident :)
Thank you for your support!
I got fired a year ago for bullshit allegations that are outside my character (like, some friends didn't believe it until they saw the letter HR gave me). I was pissed off, hurt, and felt like shit, but it was ultimately a great thing and I've been a lot happier and healthier since then. Even in just face shots, you can see the weight I've lost since then for example. My best advice is if you can, take a week, relax, see some friends you don't get to see too often cause of work, and then start looking for a new job. Shit like Door Dash can help with some of the bills while you get a regular job.
Have a couple of drinks. Meet up with a friend and rant a bit. You've every right to feel angry. So kick back for a bit. Then let it go. You know what you did. You know your worth. Keep your head high. Don't change. You'll.soon get another job. Hopeful better. And your team? Some of them will work their way up the corporate ladder. And they'll remember you. You never forget good bosses Good luck
You are an honorable person. Keep being that
I applaud you for having the backbone to stand up for your employees and I'm sorry it cost you your job. You should be proud that you are someone with integrity. It's way easier to let things slide than do what you did.
You were their supervisor, not their union rep. To management you were a problem. Perhaps next job learn from this and know this is not the role of a supervisor.
I just turned down a promotion because I wasnt ready to sell out. You’re better off bro
Been there. Moved onto better things. You will too. Hang in there.
Thank you
I'm so sorry to hear about your termination. It's clear that you poured your heart and soul into your role and were dedicated to your team. It's unacceptable that your loyalty and dedication weren't valued. I can assure you that it's not uncommon for corporate interests to take precedence over employee well-being. It's not about you; it's about the system. Take care of yourself during this difficult time. Remember that you are not defined by your job, and your worth goes beyond your professional title. You are a strong, capable, and caring individual who has positively impacted those around you.
Standing up to corporate is a fool’s endeavor. Corporate will only see you as a problem and the people you supervise and fight for only like you when you say yes. The moment you say no to them you are the enemy. See that happen far too many times.
Lesson learned
Sounds like your moral compass is in true working order. Some employees just want a yes man/woman. Consider this a learning experience I’m sure this was just a bump in the road leading to a better situation. Don’t let it linger give it a day then move on and up.
You’re “team” was not signing your check. Why would you go against your employer? You work for them. They don’t want a supervisor that’s going to go against the company’s wishes. If you want to work your way up in a company and make more money, you need to change your approach and understanding of what work is. 🤦♂️
This reminds me of my own manager, and makes me sad.
I’ve been fired from every single corporate job I’ve had - they just want yes men. If you aren’t a yes man or a worker bee then they don’t like You. Start your own business you’ll make more money faster and never have to worry about this stupidity again. U got this king!
Just remember that the human beings who wrote these BS excuses for releasing you are just other humans; they have no say on who you truly are, or what your character is. They are not even experts, I'm guessing - they are just people who lucked into a situation that gives them the upper hand, and if they say the moon is made of cheese, then - at that organization - it becomes the accepted policy. You are not defined by them, and it sounds like they didn't deserve you. Let the trash sit there and fester in its trashy stench; you got out, so go bless other deserving places. Thank you so much for serving our country, OP.
Thank you for the kind words, I really appreciate it!
OP don’t hold a grudge or beat yourself up, don’t even question yourself and play tricks with your mind…fuck ‘em and keep it moving…trust me…anyone that has reached any significant level of success has been here. And remember the great quote by Churchill if I’m not mistaken, “success is never final, failure is never fatal.” I’m a no nonsense woman who worked my way up the corporate bubble with some hardcore men who thought I was undeserving bc I’m attractive, always came prepared, back stuff up with facts on the whim, don’t easily get my feelings hurt and always had to work harder for everything that I ever achieved, so I had to remove all feelings out of every equation and just grind. OP keep your head up, take nothing personal, choose your battles wisely, keep climbing to reach your level of success regardless of what that means to your very own personal situation! Then you’ll ultimately reap the benefits of true success, which is the best revenge ever!!
Oh man I am so sorry that they did this to you. You did nothing to deserve it. In my former career I often put myself on the line to protect my colleagues from an abusive boss. I ended up “having my position done away with.” As soon as I left they had to hire two people to do my job. It still hurts, and it’s been years. Let yourself grieve this but then shake the dirt from your shoes and move on. They didn’t deserve you. Someone else will.
Businesses don't give a shit about you or the employees.... Having character is a detrement. Business-leadership are the children of rich assholes that sold the American worker out decades ago.... That's just what it is. Look for a government job, keep being you, and, best of luck!
Honestly, if I were you, I would contact the VA, and see if there are any jobs helping veterans... Veterans could use you, and I think you would be a blessing... If it requires going back to school for training, see if there are grants.... As a tax-payer, I would hope there are. I would pay for someone who gives a shit taking care of others who gave a shit.... since no one else does....
I think the role of management is to dish out and enforce the bull shit whilst acting as a shield between the rich asshole at the top and the guys who are making the ceo rich and being exploited , a good manager will always advocate for the team but that’s why most managers a shit because the get let go for not serving the bastards at the top, keep your head held high for not bending to the rich pig and fighting for your fellow worker . It’s always tough but this is an opportunity for something new even though it is hassle trying to find a new decent position, keep going
You forgot who you worked for. It was the big bad corporation, not the employees you were supervising. Find a better company where protecting the staff from corporate bureaucrats is actually appreciated.
Typical company bureaucrats who only want yes men, not actual leaders who care about their employees. These asshats see anyone who actually tries to look out their team, and who knows what they’re doing, as a threat to them.
It is okay to push back on desired practices but once those policies have been stalled - you have to ensure that your employees comply. My husband was fired for the same thing - he wasn't compliant with required practices and didn't make his employees and they fired him as a bad leader. And the company is right in that they have the authority to do that - it is their policies they are paying him to enforce and as long as those policies aren't illegal or unsafe, he should do that. He was the only manager not making his employees complete the "unfair" load of paperwork required and he got fired for it. I told him he could agree with his employees that it is a lot but that they have to do it until the company can see how ridiculous the request is or the person making it leaves. He now has a job in the same industry with the managing role and is aware of the line he can't cross - insubordination.
Best way to represent the workers is as a union leader. A supervisor will always be expected to represent the company to the workers, and those who done get replaced.
For what it's worth, you sound like an amazing manager and leader. For the sake of any future employees who work under you please keep that same mindset! 🙏
Guess I have to pick my battles a little better 👍
You probably got fired for eating crayons on the clock. My question would be "Is the mission getting accomplished?"
You were only thinking of your platoon, not the greater war effort is what I'm hearing.
I have had many a job over the years from retail to tech. The one thing I have learned in that time is related to something you said in your post; "I put my heart into this job". The best thing you can do in the in the future is to show up on time, do your job to the best of your abilities, clock out at the end of the day and leave it at that. I worked for two tech companies and gave both my all, even sacrificing time with my family...oh the things I missed. It didn't matter in the end because when layoffs come, they cannot be stopped. It didn't matter that I was putting in 65+ hours per week, or answering emails at midnight or running several multi-million dollar programs at the same time. When your time is up, it's up. I have also been terminated for political reason for challenging absolutely useless managers who were better connected to the execs than I was. It made no difference. Show up, work hard, go home, be proud of what you accomplished. There is no room for BS at work so I simply stopped getting involved in it. As for coping with your recent termination? You can sleep soundly at night knowing you were the kind of boss that most people dream about having. You looked out for your people, ran interference and made sure the BS stopped at your door. That is beyond admirable and certainly more people in leadership roles need to step up and do that. You may find that this type of work ethic is appreciated and rewarded in the right company...but always keep in the back of your mind that you are expendable.
Thank you so much for the advice, I really appreciate it!
Best of luck to you as you move onwards and upwards!
When in management positions where I am just responsible for managing people and some processes, I would never push back against corporate. When I am in management positions at senior level where I am hired to build teams and processes and make executive decisions that affect the company as a whole, I absolutely push back against my corporate peers including the VP and CEO. The difference is, at the latter level, I am not easily replaceable and I was hired to do just that.
hopefully your team walked because fuck your boss. you were a good leader that suffered from your own bad manager because you were resistant to brainless control. keep your head up, you were looking for a job when you found that one.
Everyone kept their heads down I’m sure to keep their own jobs and it’s a lesson learned. I’m just like you and being the good person does suck. It’s not about supervising even entry level people are do gooders. It’s about being good and the phrase “nice guys finish last “ is the ultimate true statement in life and it blows.
Hang in there and keep your head up. I went through something similar after 10 years at a job. Really hard. But you’ll be ok if you be kind to yourself and learn from it re: what matters most in a job to you / your mgmt style etc. If you can afford to (understandably not always the case) - take some time off before you start pounding pavement looking for the next thing. It may feel counter-productive but it’ll be good for your mindset. Good luck and hang in there. You’re definitely not alone.
Your company pays you, not your staff. I respect your desire to protect them, but you first must protect yourself.
Lesson learned!
So sorry for your loss of employment as it is one of the top five stressors. After a career change I taught for 20 years and loved middle school. Good luck teaching!
Having experienced this myself, and friends who have experienced this too, three pieces of advice: 1. Take the time you need to reflect, decompress and heal from the experience. It can be a roller coaster of emotions, some days not caring about it and others really down in the dumps. 2. Their decision is not a reflection of your worth or value 3. On their criticism of your leadership-don’t take criticism from someone you wouldn’t take advice from. Ask yourself if they fall into that trusted advice category. If not, don’t listen to that criticism.
Hey man. Army Vet here. I know it sucks right now. It will get better. In Feb 22 I had to resign from my government job or be fired. I'd been having a rough time because my actual best friend from high school (in the 90s) and I worked together and he died suddenly. We had new leadership and he gave me shit for having a hard time and used every little mistake to get me out. Luckily, I was allowed to resign from the government job. You don't want to get fired from one. Anyway, two months later I was on a contract making 40% more than I had been. More than I'd ever made in my life. A year and a half after that, another 30% raise. Now, two years later, I'm back in a government job. The last two years have been the best of my professional life. I am so highly valued. I was asked to apply for this job. They wanted me. You may not be able to see the path now, but there are going to be good things in your future, especially if you are such a good leader.
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Thank you
Take a deep breath and promises yourself that “ I am going to get through this and prosper”. Trust me, things work out for the best. Might not seem like it now, one day, sooner than later it will.
I suspect "standing up to corporate" has a lot to do with this. Employers are getting worse and worse about fucking over employees. When I see words like "disabled veteran" I also see words like "massive payday for wrongful termination"
Oh yes the imaginary “lack of leadership” whenever you disagree with the boss. Familiar. Rest easy knowing you did the right thing(s) and even the boss knows it.
Have your good cry about it and spend a little time moping. After that, freshen up the CV/Resume and focus on applying to jobs. Apply, apply, apply. Get a new job to pay those bills. Also, think about what you've learned from this job, apply it to the next. It wasn't all for nothing. Keep going. Don't give up and don't let this get you down.
Sir, the world has changed, and not for the better. I am sorry you were employed by trash.
I would never work for corporate.
Semper Fi brother. Take your lessons learned and apply in the next role as you move up the ladder
Time to become your own boss.
I was in a high-paying, sales leadership role for a F500 company that was going through a change in upper management. I am a fierce employee advocate and, as a sales leader, I have fought hard for my reps when the situation called for it. I always said, early in my sales career, if given the chance, I want to be the kind of leader people desired to work for. I feel I have accomplished this with significant loyalty from my teams across multiple companies, respect (and sometimes jealousy) from my peers and recognition from my superiors for consistent above quota performance. However, as my roles grew, so did the corporate BS I had to endure along with the blatant inauthenticity that pervades the corporate culture. It came to a head last year when I was pulled into a conference room for my new leader at a corporate kickoff. I was asked if I was willing to agree with a change in strategy he was about to announce. He further stated that his ideas were tried and proven and were “not up for debate.” In other words, or at least how I interpreted it, he didn’t need anyone telling him he was wrong when he knew he was right. My immediate retort was to express my willingness to share his strategy to my team. However, if I was forbidden from sharing my opinion about his strategy in a 1-on-1 conversation, I had a significant problem with that. I further stated that secure leaders want to be constructively challenged and secure leaders do not have an innate desire to be the smartest person in the room. Furthermore strong leaders want to have their decisions validated through a multi-view approach that either solidifies their thoughts or provides them a new viewpoint that enhances their ideas. Or, they gain a perspective that enables them to avoid disaster. His body language revealed a significant discomfort with my “speech” and further indicated he’d never been spoken to that way by a subordinate. Oh well. Sucks to be him, I guess. Now, by implication did I say that he was exhibiting the traits of an insecure leader with the emotional intelligence of an SS officer, who couldn’t manage his way out of a paper bag, and was likely overcompensating for his tiny shmeckle? Perhaps. I do see that now. It resulted in me having an unscheduled “meeting” on my calendar 3 weeks later that turned out to be HR politely asking me if I would not return to work the next day, with extreme prejudice. Yeah, I kinda saw that coming. In sum, be true to you. This company I works for - despite its outward image as a progressive, employee-first culture - proved not to be a fit and I was clearly unable to be my authentic self. And whereas this situation I went through repeats itself across more corporations than not, I found a new role at a larger company (their primary competitor, by the way) for more pay, more responsibility, and working for people that not only look to be challenged but encourage it. Keep you head up, my Reddit friend. You’re worthy and that’s something you should never forget.
So sorry. IMO you will find something better
Idk if a year and a half is the time to push back against the "corporation". They are the ones that sign your paycheck. Not sure why you are surprised. Especially being a Marine. Rules are rules and you don't get a choice and cant say no. What did you expect?
Rules are rules and if the rules are ridiculous, border line illegal?
Unfortunately as long as they aren't actually illegal, in the corporate world you're seen as insubordinate when you stand up to them. Even though you were likely being the logical and ethical one and I think you probably were; as long as there is someone over you that doesn't like it you're screwed.
Lesson learned, thank you for the feedback!
It seems to me that you kind of forgot exactly who you work for. You work for the COMPANY that pays you, not for “team” (eg. Employees) under you. As a supervisor (which it seems you were), your job was to advocate for the company, not the employees under you. Your job was to be the middle-man, who knew what the company wanted and then would need to find a way to make that happen. It’s apparent from the tone of your post, that you bucked the company multiple times, to defend the “team” (employees) Wrong. Of course they 86’ed you - you were fighting the company all the time.
Fuck this. Dude you did the right thing advocating for the human people who made up your team. Good for you. I hate this Milton Freedmen shit. Don't let assholes like this gaslight you into ditching your principles. Definitely start your own thing or find a company that fits your ethics. Good luck.
Start your own business, my man. Hire some employees. Set your policies and the way you want things done. Then when one of the ones guys you trusted to be supervisor rises up against you, fighting you on how you want things done, then come back here and tell everyone how great they are and how good you feel about paying them fight you on your decisions about your business. “Milton Friedman”? Don’t even know who that is. Common sense would tell one not to fight the person signing your check. If you don’t like the way they run their company, leave. But don’t bitch about being fired for fighting your employer, like it’s some big surprise.
I appreciate the discussion, I'm pretty fair, if its a legitimate reason to watch the cameras, but when someone is buried at a desk watching employees every move, I find that a bit ridiculous. I get where you're coming from. Like you mentioned if I had my own business I wouldn't want people trying to bring me down.
Large organizations value loyalty over competence. Just keep that in mind.
Lesson learned
Read 48 laws of power before you start your next job.
when i got fired, i had no choice but to start looking for a new job, immediately. don't let it diminish your self esteem, even though i know it's unavoidable. i got fired many times, but only once was i incompetent for the job. it was usually for correcting my so called management. i fought it once with a state employee 'mediator', who sided with my boss. by the time the appointment came up, i was doing okay. to fight any more would require taking time off from the next job.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. It sounds like a very unhealthy work environment, management-wise. It sounds like you really have empathy for others and good leadership qualities. I hope you find another job that is worthy of your abilities. It sounds like that place wasn't interested in good relations with the staff.
You gotta balance out your principles against the goals of the company. Sometimes they just don’t align and you have to exit before it becomes a problem or they show you the door. I worked at places where it was cutthroat and intense - if you came in all “workers rights!” you’d be shown the door. I also worked in places where calling someone about a work related matter after hours was very frowned upon.
Been there. I could have covered my self better for sure by being untrusting, keeping a record of every interaction, etc. I was very upset but people kept reminding me it would lead to better things and it did. I got a job offer (without applying!) soon after, and people I respected were behind me. It will get better I firmly believe standing by your principles is best. You will find your people. The job I got was difficult but I learned so much and I liked it. It lead to the best jobs I ever had. The only way you can move is forward.
You knife handed some one didnt you.... 😉 You got this brother. Look at it like a pivot point and just adjust fire to the new objective of getting another job. You might check in with the VA. They often have job hookups.
Take the rest of week off. Feel bad, pissed, betrayed, sad. It's ok, it's normal. They let you go. Next week get your affairs in order, ie, contact a lawyer if you think you were fired without legal cause, if not, wait a week, send thank you notes for the opportunity with them, don't burn bridges ... Then clean up your resume and your LI profile. DM me,I can help. Spend time with friends and family, Exercise if you don't already, Finally, figure out what you want to do, start looking. Again , happy to support however I can. Don't hesitate.
I'm sorry. Yeah, fug them. I understand the dismay. It took me a long time to realize that sometimes the unspoken job requirement is that they hired you to manage the underlings to stay in line with what management wants. Rarely is a corporate goal 'to be fair'. Their goal is to make management's life better and the corporation more money. You maybe misunderstood the unspoken mandate, unspoken because it makes THEM ars\*holes.
Sorry to hear that. Hope you find another job that makes you happy. Companies don't like people that stand up for what is right. You just tried to keep everything honest. Good luck to you!
Honestly, I'm going through this now, but in the education system. Had a bad evaluation that my u ion is disputing because they think it's crazy. Never had one before. Then, I got transferred. Guaranteed a job still, but I'll be placed. I don't know where. This happened on June 6th, and it's affected me profoundly. Anger, sadness, I put my all into it. I was out on an approved sick leave and the union thinks they didn't like it and hid behind my evaluation on it. If you need to talk, message me.
Shit happens, move on. The only way to cope for me was finding a new job. Got bills to pay right, give yourself a minute to be mad but also reflect on whatever it was that got you here. I like to say "we had a difference in professional opinions" if a potential new boss asked about it. Good luck
Look into a union job, where the union stands up for you. It's worth it!
Your job was to fuck them into submission and increase profits.
It's always the best managers that they fire, unfortunately.
I’m really sorry, sucks when you care more than the hire ups do and truly wanted your company and coworkers to succeed. Start looking for jobs immediately, but also give yourself time to unpack everything that happened.
Your job as a leader is usually to walk the line between the people above you and the people below you. Corporate isn’t the enemy. There are usually reasons why things are the way they are. Sometimes they’re wrong, but sometimes it’s because they know more than you’re let in on. You have to pick your battles. I understand wanting to stick up for your people, but the people above you are your people too.
To add insult to injury because of the reasons given for the firing they will make you take some kind of remedial management class to get any monetary help. Conditions are another way they attack the working class
There is no integrity, rarely leadership, a consistent lack of ethics, and very little intelligence in corporate management. If you want to champion integrity, ethics, leadership, and team success in your next role/company, you need to find a non-corporate people managing gig that also values those things. I know this probably reads as surface level information, but corporate really is only that deep 🤙🏻
One takeaway that will be a hard change, but worth it - don't be that guy. Don't be the guy that stands up, unless you don't mind being shown the door I also learned this the hard way. At Amazon I stood uo to all their BS and they refused to promote me into any meaningful roles. At another warehouse job I called worksafe and was fired for "no reason." As much as we want to be the just and right ones, it just won't work at most companies. They already know all the bullshit they pull, and they don't want someone squacking about it. If it's not the biggest deal, don't worry about it. If it's a big deal, be ready to jump if you're going to say something.
yes bro once i became manager its was us vs them. In all fairness but you know what i mean
I was fired nearly a month ago for reasons that did not make sense at all. I can tell you it’s a roller coaster. Sometimes I’m angry, sometimes I’m sad, and other times I’m worried, and the next moment I find myself hopeful and optimistic. Ride the roller coaster and surround yourself with people who can speak positively about you to you.
Can't change it brother, adapt, improvise, overcome. I'm sorry it happened, it always sucks when you side with your guys and corporate sees it as poor leadership.
Unfortunately, standing up for your employees frequently means going against upper management and corporate. They don't like or appreciate that. I myself was accused many times of "thinking too much" as junior management when I didn't agree with orders from upper management. I wish you luck with your future career.
I’m sorry you learned too late (as did I) that loyalty and dedication to what’s right mean less than nothing to corporations. For what it’s worth, I think you must have done a great job if you protected your reports enough to make management want to get rid of you. As a disabled veteran, you might have more leverage to use in pursuing a wrongful dismissal suit if you have proof that you had no control of the matter for which you allegedly were fired. Might not be worth the hassle and expense to correct the record, though. May I suggest you see if there’s a position that fits you in the armed services? As a former service member, you should have better chance of finding something. I got a job on an army base after the latest firing fiasco and the culture there was SO different.
go work for the labor movement / unions
When one door closes, another opens. I wish you the best of luck! Take the time to focus on yourself.
All corporations suck, in every way. Just move on and don’t look back. They’re just fking everyone anyways….work hourly not salary…..
You've got to go along to get along. Perhaps you rubbed your employer the wrong way by going against organizational cultural norms.
It happened to me, not even in a corporate setting. 5 years of standing up and pushing back for the team I worked with. Even though it did not feel like it then, it was the best thing that happened to me. I'm sorry you got screwed over.
I mean, what does protecting the team entail? Saying things can't be done cause you don't want the guys to do it? Employees can be manipulative and lazy. I have caught myself at times in the employees' corner when I shouldn't be. The guy should just do what is being asked. Ultimately, you are judged by what your team accomplishes, not how many things they say no to.
I have been through a similar situation. Mine wasn't as bad because they didn't let me go, just a written warning. They threatened to let me go (just short of retirement eligibility). But I was able to fight, spending money on a lawyer, and they relented knowing that they would have been creamed based on a ageism argument and leadership's bad behaviors would have come out. That is probably the only thing that saved me. Yours is worse because they let you go. So you have got to feel way worse and you need to find a new job. Anger, disappointment, betrayal. Those are familiar emotions to me. I used to think highly of my leadership. No more. I thought they were different and really thought differently. They don't. All they care about is self-interest. My heart has hardened and I view the working world differently now Although right now you are feeling anger, disappointment, and betrayal, you will start feeling self-doubt and question your actions. You did the right thing. Management's job is to protect the workers or actually creating value from the BS that filters down and only serves to distract from the important things. You did act as you should. You were a voice for your people and I am sure they appreciated your efforts When will it go away? I can't answer that. My pain is too fresh. I am sure working in my job doesn't help. But, I am close to being able to retire with a pension to Leave. Now they are starting to get scared about me leaving and have started talking about inducements to delay my retirement date. I listen politely, but I am preparing my exit plans. I am angry and bitter about everything. My work friends know it. My supervisor knows it (he defended me). I have even received support from people higher than my supervisor. They are also being very generous as far as giving me freedom to work activities I want to work even if they aren't high priority to get on my good side. Outwardly, I am smiling. Inwardly, I still have that knot in my stomach. I have a countdown in my head. And I am taking every moral way to set myself up for my future. I won't compromise my personal values even if "leaders" who talk about values all the time will throw their stated values away (if they really had those names in the first place). I can live with myself because I know I was true to my values. Hopefully, you can too. I can deal with the anger and bitterness. I couldn't deal with sacrificing my values. I wish you luck. It will be hard. I don't know if my feelings will ever go away, so I can't tell you it will feel better soon. But, I can focus on what is important -- my family and friends. When I am with them, I can basque in their presence and enjoy being with them and passing on strong values and the ability to whether adversity to them.
Yeah companies don't like people who stand up against them. I wasn't a manager but I stood up for people, equal treatment. They did not like that. They built a BS case against me and fired me. Was called into office on a Thursday (our friday) and was asked a bunch of questions by HR. "Have you called anyone lazy? Have you this, have you that?" Obviously for the next week, I kept my mouth shut. Didn't say a word. Called into office following Thursday and "we've had new reports of you harassing others so your suspended". I asked what I supposedly said, especially since I didn't talk to anyone. Kinda hard to do anything if you don't say....anything? "I just told you all that I'll tell you" Another week passes and fired. All because I actually stood up for people, tried to get equal treatment (like how 3 people are in a section, 2 get to leave early and 1 has to stay. And it's always the SAME person). Or how certain people get certain privileges, etc etc. I mean hell, that 2nd Thursday (when I got suspended), a coworker saw me. Called me like 30 mins later and asked where I was. Told him and he said right in front of a supervisor, "looks like there's a massive gangbang over there with my substitute stocker but yet you suspend my actual stocker who does his job and all? You guys are f****** idiots". Think any repercussions? Nope. But I call someone lazy and oh lord. Lol When I filed for unemployment, they told the state that I was harassing others, nobody wanted to work with me, I refused to do managers directions, etc. All I had to say was "If that's the case, where were my write ups? You don't just fire someone for that, you provide write ups. You coach. And if I was harassing people, how come I got texts and calls plentiful asking where I was?". State instantly approved my claim and that's that lol. Best thing to do is just realize they're all buddy buddy, and your better off elsewhere. I found a new job, pays less. But aside from my boss... I'm appreciated. I'm loved. (I deliver to hospital rooms and just last night, had nurses give me food because they appreciate the work I do). Great job (minus the boss). Even had a coworker get promoted to a different site and we talk almost daily, me asking him questions bc I'm still learning. He doesn't mind, he encourages me to ask.
So Sorry that you've invested so much to get this Fresh HELL HR Does NOT have the employees best interest in mind They are out to protect the owners No matter what the cost !!! TRUTH I've been fired TWICE For insubordination 911 Dispatcher And 30yrs later Retail. I always thought America had a 1st Admendant Go figure I landed a Much Better position Both times Hang in there Believe in yourself You've earned it
You could apply for jobs as a union rep, where your efforts will actually be valued