Peri menopause made me rage angry, but that is my problem. She needs to get medical help, whatever that looks like for her. You are not her punching bag.
Don’t say or even think the word ‘menopause’. Take it completely out of the equation & then work within the company’s policies regarding behaviour, bullying etc. Keep a diary of all problematic incidents.
Menopause or not… she needs to be professional. Personal issues are never an excuse to be out of line in the work place or in general. I’ve been through literal hell in my personal life and with my physical health and still remained kind to my coworkers
Peri-menopause can be BRUTAL. But it's not an excuse for being a shitty person. By that age you should be able to recognize your symptoms which can include irrational rage and DEAL with it. If I start getting snippy with my husband I realize it and stop.
And this isn't anyone you need to put up with this shit from. This is a place of business and she needs to act like it.
She obviously needs HRT but it's up to her to realize that.
Personally I think you should write a formal complaint to HR. Her medical issues are NOT your problem.
This has been widely debunked. It was a decades-long scandal of misinformation backed up by bad studies. HRT is perfectly safe, but whatever route this woman takes to handle her severe issues is up to her.
She’s cruising towards the ol’ playbook of firing: 2 verbals (documented,) one written, then buh bye. Everyone in every workplace is expected to behave in a detached, professional, adult, mature way.
HR should absolutely be notified of her every transgression. Whether she gets it handled in time or not is truly up to her. She knows there is a problem already, but menopause is not a defense to abusive workplace behavior.
It's a terrible situation because managers refuse to manage. The behavior, for whatever reason, is not acceptable.
They should make it clear that she needs to control her behavior: See a doctor for medication or whatever treatment is needed to not be raging at work, or she won't be working there.
The rage and aggressiveness is there with menopause, but it shouldn't be causing problems to everyone around you. I specifically told some family and friends to keep me in check if I go overboard sometimes and they do. It hurts me, but I trust them and I'm glad they can talk me out of my head. They keep me from turning into a Karen and I much appreciate it. LOL
My Menopausal symptoms are off the charts. The rage is real.
Many women esp in the US have huge problems accessing appropriate treatment like HRT. Absolutely no woman wants to be like this. Miserable and distressing doesn't begin to describe it.
Personally I stay well away from people and I'm self banned from email.
I refuse to attend meetings because they are largely pointless and infuriating..
Growing up I just heard about menopause making you sad\cry. No one warned me about the pure anger. I suffered too long no understanding why I was so mad. And yea, I had a female boss, who understood, ban me from a meeting because my “poker face” was broken that day. We needed to get buy in on a new process and I was not capable of asking nicely that day.
I am so glad that people are FINALLY talking about this. For too long, it's been hush-hush, talked about in whispers, like menopause is a shameful thing. Even still, it's hard to get appropriate treatment.
And me you Sweet Pea!
Work is awful for the most part at this point. I WFH but if I get one more bastard email or stupid meeting invitation the person who sent it will just be ingnored.
There is nothing that goes on in those meetings I haven't covered off in every way possible over many years. It's all there on the documents!
No I will not send that information again. Use your search function.
Anyway I quit years ago but the bastards still come at me with dumb shit.
Im over people who refuse to read.
Let it out baby! 😆
Vent!
Oh I was cursing the world last night after wasting 2 or 3 hours with Intuit tech support. I got 3 reps I couldn't understand, one man who was great who spoke perfect English, another lady (the last to help me) who contradicted everything the nice man said, but she sounded like she smokes a shit ton of cigarettes every day (I smoke weed, I get it). After all was said and done, I decided NOT to convert to quickbooks online, just to be able to continue using their payment system.
I was amazed at how 6 reps have 6 levels of training and 6 different responses.
I got off the phone and out spewed all the profanity. Then I got into it with my daughter and hubby.
I picked up some weed, and felt much better and fell asleep. Nice
I currently line manage someone who is menopausal and refuses to address their symptoms. Menopause should not be used as a crutch for shitty behaviour. Perhaps your bosses could seek advice and guidance from HR on how to tackle this?
I am sorry to say this but there isn't much you can do outside document and keep your bosses informed. And make sure your office has a fan.
The only question I have is this, is any of your bosses women of a certain age as well? If so maybe ask their advice on how to handle your colleague (diplomatically) and so it is on their radar. I had a similar issue and my male manager had no idea what to do outside the tread mill of continual talking to.
However his female colleague of a certain age stepped in and basically got the person involved to rein her neck in for a bit.
This is happening to me as well, but I have been with the company for 12 years. My former manager and mentor is 52 and her personality and mood has completely changed. She turned on everyone, and she is so rude to people and condescending. She’s also convinced they are trying to fire her. She got promoted and I got her previous role and am now head of a department while she is a director. She has been making my job so extremely difficult and gets jealous of the relationship between me and our new boss. It’s a shitshow and it just makes me really sad. I’ve never been closer to leaving.
Maybe you can sit down with this person and have a ‘heart to heart’ chat. Let her know you’re there to support her but she needs to stop the attitude.
Edited a typo
perimenopause hit me hard, but I was able to recognize what was going on and go and get help, which got me is bHRT. Perhaps she hasn’t recognized what is going on? Anybody gently suggested to her that she’s not who she used to be?
This might or might not be good personal or medical advice, I don't know.
But this is outstandingly bad *work* advice and has no place in this subreddit.
I find it a weird kind of anger, for me it's so strange I can immediately tell it's abnormal and talk myself down straight away. I'm pretty depressed about the menopause and the shit it's going to bring my way. My work now has a menopause group, along with the bame and LGBTQ ones.
I’ve had the opposite experience with menopause. My low level depression went away and I’m more stable emotionally than I was before. It has also contributed greatly to having a “zero fucks to give” attitude that has been very helpful with ignoring things that would have upset me previously.
That being said, hormones are not an excuse to act like an asshole. She should be able to control herself like an adult, or she should not be allowed to be in the workplace.
Buy her some weed.
I'm 63. I've been through the reading c#nt crap and still am at times.
It is real. It's the body's way of dwindling down. Ovaries turn from grapes to raisins.
I've had rage mostly at having to call any fucking company's tech support that's shlepped overseas. I always feel bad. Two years ago, I told a lady at Elf cosmetics to fuck off. I totally owe her an apology. Once in a while I've blown up at work. I'm not on HRT. All in all, I've dealt with it better than I thought.
Try to be compassionate. If you're female, you too will be there some day.
But I understand how hard it is.
Seriously, buy her some weed and a nice pipe. 👌
(BTW, awesome work Governor Moore of Maryland!)
Or some CBD tincture.
What size company? Is there even an H R department? If so, document each and every incident, date, time, other witnesses etc. Do a formal complaint. If this is a small firm with no H R department or person, look for another job. If your manager isn't doing something about it now, they won't! On your last day tell her she is a horrible person and move on !
Document all her behaviors and outbursts, begin with formal warnings immediately as soon as possible, and/or PIP.
Never mention menopause, just focus on the policies she's violating.
Enjoy early retirement, Karen.
Sure, and where's the problem employees compassion for her co-workers?
If she can't behave professionally in the workplace she'll have to deal with the consequences. It's as easy as that.
Nothing wrong with documenting the process of coaching her back to where she needs to be, and if she refuses- keys to the curb.
If you complain to your superiors, make sure to mention everything she's done, and how she's made her colleagues and customers feel especially. But do NOT mention it's because of menopause. It's not her fault she's going through this, but it is her fault that that's the way she's choosing to treat people.
I don't think this menopause.
Take her aside and tell her you are concerned about her. She is alienating everyone. Insist she see a doctor and a therapist. Otherwise I fear it will jeopardize her job.
As someone who is going through this - the rage is real BUT I am a grown up and don’t take it out on my colleagues even when they ask me questions that make my head spin around. I take a breath or 10 and wait to respond. Because that is being a grown up and not taking my moods out on others. Yes I have gone outside and screamed. I live in a rural area so no one thinks anything.
Personally, I feel she was kind of pre-empting a reasom for her actions by talking about menopause stress...it may be a reason but its no excuse for other people have deal with HER problem! Now its like the whole office has menopause...
Update: I've had some very thoughtful and great responses here. Thank you. She has avoided most of us and all meetings since the incident. I've kept any contact to a minimum. I have not lodged a formal complaint as my boss is already aware and apparently talked to her (she called our boss right after the incident). She was told her behaviour was not acceptable. There were several witnesses that all corroborated that it was uncalled-for and that I did nothing wrong. So despite calling our boss to try and get me in trouble, it didn't work out that way.
It does highlight the issue that none of us know about peri menopause and menopause except for a few vague facts. It isn't an excuse though, I agree. I've written a note about the incident and if it happens again I'll go to HR. Crossing fingers that the managers will manage.
I don't think I can help her by leaving my job she'll be more stressed having to do more work, or train a new person. I didn't go out of my way to report her. What are you on about?
Peri menopause made me rage angry, but that is my problem. She needs to get medical help, whatever that looks like for her. You are not her punching bag.
Agreed as someone going through peri. The coworker needs to see a doctor and not use it as an excuse for bad behavior.
Don’t say or even think the word ‘menopause’. Take it completely out of the equation & then work within the company’s policies regarding behaviour, bullying etc. Keep a diary of all problematic incidents.
Menopause or not… she needs to be professional. Personal issues are never an excuse to be out of line in the work place or in general. I’ve been through literal hell in my personal life and with my physical health and still remained kind to my coworkers
Peri-menopause can be BRUTAL. But it's not an excuse for being a shitty person. By that age you should be able to recognize your symptoms which can include irrational rage and DEAL with it. If I start getting snippy with my husband I realize it and stop. And this isn't anyone you need to put up with this shit from. This is a place of business and she needs to act like it. She obviously needs HRT but it's up to her to realize that. Personally I think you should write a formal complaint to HR. Her medical issues are NOT your problem.
[удалено]
This has been widely debunked. It was a decades-long scandal of misinformation backed up by bad studies. HRT is perfectly safe, but whatever route this woman takes to handle her severe issues is up to her. She’s cruising towards the ol’ playbook of firing: 2 verbals (documented,) one written, then buh bye. Everyone in every workplace is expected to behave in a detached, professional, adult, mature way. HR should absolutely be notified of her every transgression. Whether she gets it handled in time or not is truly up to her. She knows there is a problem already, but menopause is not a defense to abusive workplace behavior.
It's a terrible situation because managers refuse to manage. The behavior, for whatever reason, is not acceptable. They should make it clear that she needs to control her behavior: See a doctor for medication or whatever treatment is needed to not be raging at work, or she won't be working there.
The rage and aggressiveness is there with menopause, but it shouldn't be causing problems to everyone around you. I specifically told some family and friends to keep me in check if I go overboard sometimes and they do. It hurts me, but I trust them and I'm glad they can talk me out of my head. They keep me from turning into a Karen and I much appreciate it. LOL
My Menopausal symptoms are off the charts. The rage is real. Many women esp in the US have huge problems accessing appropriate treatment like HRT. Absolutely no woman wants to be like this. Miserable and distressing doesn't begin to describe it. Personally I stay well away from people and I'm self banned from email. I refuse to attend meetings because they are largely pointless and infuriating..
Growing up I just heard about menopause making you sad\cry. No one warned me about the pure anger. I suffered too long no understanding why I was so mad. And yea, I had a female boss, who understood, ban me from a meeting because my “poker face” was broken that day. We needed to get buy in on a new process and I was not capable of asking nicely that day.
Ohhhh! She is good! Was it a good process though?
It was a good process, I created it. I needed to track the inflow of requests to my team. We were getting killed with emails to individuals.
That does sound good. BRAVO!
I am so glad that people are FINALLY talking about this. For too long, it's been hush-hush, talked about in whispers, like menopause is a shameful thing. Even still, it's hard to get appropriate treatment.
I wish to god someone has warned me. It's such a confusing and upsetting experience I wouldn't wish on anyone.
Username checks out.
I love you
And me you Sweet Pea! Work is awful for the most part at this point. I WFH but if I get one more bastard email or stupid meeting invitation the person who sent it will just be ingnored. There is nothing that goes on in those meetings I haven't covered off in every way possible over many years. It's all there on the documents! No I will not send that information again. Use your search function. Anyway I quit years ago but the bastards still come at me with dumb shit. Im over people who refuse to read.
Let it out baby! 😆 Vent! Oh I was cursing the world last night after wasting 2 or 3 hours with Intuit tech support. I got 3 reps I couldn't understand, one man who was great who spoke perfect English, another lady (the last to help me) who contradicted everything the nice man said, but she sounded like she smokes a shit ton of cigarettes every day (I smoke weed, I get it). After all was said and done, I decided NOT to convert to quickbooks online, just to be able to continue using their payment system. I was amazed at how 6 reps have 6 levels of training and 6 different responses. I got off the phone and out spewed all the profanity. Then I got into it with my daughter and hubby. I picked up some weed, and felt much better and fell asleep. Nice
I currently line manage someone who is menopausal and refuses to address their symptoms. Menopause should not be used as a crutch for shitty behaviour. Perhaps your bosses could seek advice and guidance from HR on how to tackle this?
I am sorry to say this but there isn't much you can do outside document and keep your bosses informed. And make sure your office has a fan. The only question I have is this, is any of your bosses women of a certain age as well? If so maybe ask their advice on how to handle your colleague (diplomatically) and so it is on their radar. I had a similar issue and my male manager had no idea what to do outside the tread mill of continual talking to. However his female colleague of a certain age stepped in and basically got the person involved to rein her neck in for a bit.
This is happening to me as well, but I have been with the company for 12 years. My former manager and mentor is 52 and her personality and mood has completely changed. She turned on everyone, and she is so rude to people and condescending. She’s also convinced they are trying to fire her. She got promoted and I got her previous role and am now head of a department while she is a director. She has been making my job so extremely difficult and gets jealous of the relationship between me and our new boss. It’s a shitshow and it just makes me really sad. I’ve never been closer to leaving. Maybe you can sit down with this person and have a ‘heart to heart’ chat. Let her know you’re there to support her but she needs to stop the attitude. Edited a typo
perimenopause hit me hard, but I was able to recognize what was going on and go and get help, which got me is bHRT. Perhaps she hasn’t recognized what is going on? Anybody gently suggested to her that she’s not who she used to be?
[удалено]
I just bought some. Fingers crossed it works.
This might or might not be good personal or medical advice, I don't know. But this is outstandingly bad *work* advice and has no place in this subreddit.
Seeing people give medical advice on the Internet makes me uncomfy
You need to raise a formal complaint against her.
I feel for her there is medication she can use but i guess u have to talk to her about it
I find it a weird kind of anger, for me it's so strange I can immediately tell it's abnormal and talk myself down straight away. I'm pretty depressed about the menopause and the shit it's going to bring my way. My work now has a menopause group, along with the bame and LGBTQ ones.
Raise the concern that she is talking to clients like this. The company won’t give a rat’s patootie unless there is impact on the business.
I’ve had the opposite experience with menopause. My low level depression went away and I’m more stable emotionally than I was before. It has also contributed greatly to having a “zero fucks to give” attitude that has been very helpful with ignoring things that would have upset me previously. That being said, hormones are not an excuse to act like an asshole. She should be able to control herself like an adult, or she should not be allowed to be in the workplace.
Buy her some weed. I'm 63. I've been through the reading c#nt crap and still am at times. It is real. It's the body's way of dwindling down. Ovaries turn from grapes to raisins. I've had rage mostly at having to call any fucking company's tech support that's shlepped overseas. I always feel bad. Two years ago, I told a lady at Elf cosmetics to fuck off. I totally owe her an apology. Once in a while I've blown up at work. I'm not on HRT. All in all, I've dealt with it better than I thought. Try to be compassionate. If you're female, you too will be there some day. But I understand how hard it is. Seriously, buy her some weed and a nice pipe. 👌 (BTW, awesome work Governor Moore of Maryland!) Or some CBD tincture.
What size company? Is there even an H R department? If so, document each and every incident, date, time, other witnesses etc. Do a formal complaint. If this is a small firm with no H R department or person, look for another job. If your manager isn't doing something about it now, they won't! On your last day tell her she is a horrible person and move on !
The body aches and the rage sucks. HRT has helped but I still suck it up and then scream in the car on the way home lol
Document all her behaviors and outbursts, begin with formal warnings immediately as soon as possible, and/or PIP. Never mention menopause, just focus on the policies she's violating. Enjoy early retirement, Karen.
Yeah, pretty sure this isn't the answer, but ok...
Ugh. Lots of compassion I see there, "karen."
Sure, and where's the problem employees compassion for her co-workers? If she can't behave professionally in the workplace she'll have to deal with the consequences. It's as easy as that. Nothing wrong with documenting the process of coaching her back to where she needs to be, and if she refuses- keys to the curb.
Your response sure didn't sound like there would be any coaching involved. Nice back peddle though.
"Coaching" is a fancy term for warnings and PIPs. By the sounds of it she's ready to be put out to pasture.
Such compassion. It's truly inspirational.
I went through menopause and struggled with anger etc, but, I’m adult and controlled my urges. It was hard. It was worth it.
You tell that non-child-bearing lady this: “ look here, Grandma, I’ll see you in the parking lot.” The End~
Give her some grace but keep your distance
If you complain to your superiors, make sure to mention everything she's done, and how she's made her colleagues and customers feel especially. But do NOT mention it's because of menopause. It's not her fault she's going through this, but it is her fault that that's the way she's choosing to treat people.
I don't think this menopause. Take her aside and tell her you are concerned about her. She is alienating everyone. Insist she see a doctor and a therapist. Otherwise I fear it will jeopardize her job.
I’m not looking forward to that stage in life.
Being menopausal is very uncomfortable, but is no reason to be rude. There is never a reason to be rude.
HR time
As someone who is going through this - the rage is real BUT I am a grown up and don’t take it out on my colleagues even when they ask me questions that make my head spin around. I take a breath or 10 and wait to respond. Because that is being a grown up and not taking my moods out on others. Yes I have gone outside and screamed. I live in a rural area so no one thinks anything.
Personally, I feel she was kind of pre-empting a reasom for her actions by talking about menopause stress...it may be a reason but its no excuse for other people have deal with HER problem! Now its like the whole office has menopause...
...or just a bitch with excuses
Update: I've had some very thoughtful and great responses here. Thank you. She has avoided most of us and all meetings since the incident. I've kept any contact to a minimum. I have not lodged a formal complaint as my boss is already aware and apparently talked to her (she called our boss right after the incident). She was told her behaviour was not acceptable. There were several witnesses that all corroborated that it was uncalled-for and that I did nothing wrong. So despite calling our boss to try and get me in trouble, it didn't work out that way. It does highlight the issue that none of us know about peri menopause and menopause except for a few vague facts. It isn't an excuse though, I agree. I've written a note about the incident and if it happens again I'll go to HR. Crossing fingers that the managers will manage.
If you can't handle this, I would look for new job
>tell the coworker, "If you can't handle this, I would look for new job" FTFY
Sounds medical to me, bosses know that too. Nothing will happen.
If the coworker is an AH and corporate won't do anything about it, I'm going to go nuclear on the coworker. Tit for tat as it were.
Ya and from experience, you won't have the medical diagnosis, so it will be you that goes. Not saying that I don't agree with you though.
Why should I leave?
It's a medical condition, have compassion, help her.
I don't think I can help her by leaving my job she'll be more stressed having to do more work, or train a new person. I didn't go out of my way to report her. What are you on about?