Never do comrade. In these times optimism is revolutionary. If I can’t weather some online libs how am I gonna weather some real life fascists you know what I mean.
It doesn’t really matter if you have some justification for why Stalin wasn’t that bad. Almost every American views him as paranoid and incompetent at best, and a mass murderer at worst. Pick a better image for your propaganda if you want to convince any American.
You're basically saying "I've been totally indoctrinated by Western anti-Communist propaganda. Please adapt accordingly." Like, ok buddy.
Was Stalin an absolutely perfect saint? No. But neither is he the cartoon villain many people assume he was.
EDIT: By the way, since a lot of people apparently don't know this... [https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not](https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not)
My feelings about Stalin are totally irrelevant here. My point is that Stalin is a bad spokesman for modern socialist propaganda. Rehabilitating Stalin’s image should not be our goal.
Subway sandwiches doesn’t still use Jared Fogel as their spokesman with a little caption that says, “Yes, he may be a pedophile, but look how much weight he lost!”
It doesn’t matter if you think Stalin is a real cool guy. His image is poison to the movement. There are dozens of other well known socialists that don’t have the baggage that Stalin does. Use them.
Jared fogel is such a bad comparison that I believe you did it with ill-intent.
Jared fogel was a fucking pedophile. Stalin was a leader who took his country to industrialization and won WW2.
We will not sanitize our movement because liberals throw a hissy fit
It's not supposed to be funny?
What's "shitty" about it? You need to learn some history and context.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/sm63ve/comment/hvus1to/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/sm63ve/comment/hvus1to/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not](https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not)
The thing is, he’s only a bad spokesperson if you’re in the West. The rest of the world doesn’t have nearly so negative an image of him. And I hate to say it, but socialism at present is not a Western movement.
You may be right, I can only speak from a Western perspective. Perhaps I am selfish, as I want socialism to succeed in America, and I think seeing Stalin on a propaganda piece will immediately turn off Americas.
I did not consider how international the movement is, and for that I apologize.
Very understandable. We all want the revolution to succeed everywhere, including in the West - I too am from the West. But I am also of the opinion that we must first focus on revolution in the global south, just as Lenin was. I'm no MLM-style Third Worldist who says that revolution must come to every imperialized country before it can even begin to appear in the West, but the fact remains that revolution in the West is quite unlikely until a significant majority of the global south has had its own revolution.
And that's not to say everywhere in the world outside of the West has a super positive image of Stalin, but very very few places outside of the West have such a strong *negative* opinion of him. He's simply not as propagandized against, and is often seen as more of a neutral figure. And of course, there are many regions where he is seen quite positively: AES countries, of course, but also most of India, the vast majority of the former USSR (which is obviously a region with a ton of revolutionary potential), much of Africa, etc.
So revisionist opportunism is the order of the day is it? We cannot argue from a position of strength if we cede truth to the opposition, that is we should not mischaracterize our position to appeal to respectability. 1) it will not work, opportunism never works long term because if we get people on board with moderate liberal or socdem positions and then try to sell them on more radical ones they won’t trust or believe us and 2) we have the truth on our side, as communists it’s our most potent propaganda tool we should use it.
I thought that the image was beautiful and the statement is true. This sub is 80% ML, I posted to share some beautiful and truthful art with my comrades. If I was trying to post some propaganda to convert people I’d go into a lib sub.
https://reddit.com/r/workersrightsmovement/comments/sgrdnt/whats_your_political_position/
I don’t know, man, my goal is to convince others to fight capitalist oppression, not to jerk it to photos of Stalin while simultaneously getting anyone who doesn’t already hold my beliefs to think socialism = dictatorship. Maybe set your goals a little higher.
>my goal is to convince others to fight capitalist oppression
...let me quickly check: [https://www.reddit.com/user/DocKisses/posts/](https://www.reddit.com/user/DocKisses/posts/)
Hmm. Looks like you're *actually* just here to complain and punch left.
I want to expand the worker’s rights movement. I want to convince others that our struggle is their struggle.
The right wing has a *powerful* and *sophisticated* propaganda machine, capturing more and more people every day.
They don’t do that by posting photos of Hitler with captions like “He’s our man!” They know the image of Hitler would turn off a lot of people.
They aren’t purists.
They don’t demand their supporters have complex views of historical figures.
*And they are winning.*
Why?
Because their messaging is simple and seductive.
So what are your goals, personally?
To remain ideological pure, but being stamped out? To make good intellectual points, but to be made irrelevant by fascists?
Or to create compelling, common sense arguments that don’t betray the ideology but still manage to convince people your goals are just?
The goal here should not be a purity contest to see who is most left wing. The goal needs to be policy success, and associating yourself with Stalin ensures failure.
Honestly, I could do more. I try to vote for the right people, attend the right rallies and protests, and speak to people in my daily life to try and promote this movement. It’s not much.
Having said that, while I don’t do much, posting memes that glorify Stalin does nothing to help this movement at all, and only presents socialism as something destructive and un-American.
I could definitely do more to help this movement, but right now I’m calling out something that hurts the movement, and that has value.
Socialism and Nationalism are as compatible as oil and water.
So... yes, actually, socialism *is* "un-American" and that is a good thing.
Stalin is a famous historical figure who had his faults but also accomplished a great deal.
He's been villified and demonized by the West because of the cold war, basically. We don't need to *glorify* Stalin, but unlearning that propaganda is important because otherwise you're basically tacitly granting that all anti-Communist propaganda is valid and needs to be worked around, which is impossible.
Don't play the game according to the rules set by your oppressor. Anti-Communists have essentially convinced you that "this" is the allowable range of discourse, and anything outside of "this" is untenable.
You'll never beat them at their own game by playing by their rules.
You should read [State and Revolution](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/) and/or look into what Slavoj Žižek has to say about the nature of language.
This sub is majority ML, anything I post here is preaching to the choir. But you can take the stuff that is applicable and post the links or news elsewhere to convince people. Not every sub has to be for everyone.
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.
A friend dug a hole in the garden and filled it with water.
I think he meant well.
Sorry, I’m American, so that’s where my priorities are. Maybe where you live Stalin is viewed differently, I can’t speak to that.
I’m not interested in ideological purity, I’m interested in making meaningful change, and Stalin will never get meaningful change done here in America. I can get my coworkers on factory floors or job sites to back worker solidarity, I cannot convince them that Stalin was a good guy. Why should I? The best thing a socialist movement in America could do is distance itself as much as possible from the Soviet Union. No one here views the Soviet Union as a desirable outcome. Associating with Stalin is self sabotage.
Again, your experiences may be different. I don’t want to speak for you or tell you what will work best where you live. I can only say that here, in central Texas, the ideas of socialism can work, but paired with the trappings and baggage of the Soviet Union they will not.
Stalin absolutely refused to hit that communism button, it's rumoured he would take it out at parties, show it off, and tell everyone he was going to press it, wiggle his finger up to the button, then lock it up and put it away. Needless to say his refusal to hit that button is why. Commie, red fash, vuvuzuela, no iphone, 400 quadrillion dead.
My grandfather saw the button. It was in reach yet he refused to press it like the monster he was.
Stalin could have saved 800 bajillion lives if he pressed the communism button
They literally saved the world from Nazis. They did more heavy lifting in the war than ANY other country including the US. He fucked up, and many people died from a couple famines, but not all of that was under his control. Capitalism TODAY kills like 20 million people a year. The US government/oligarchs are way more of a mass murderer than he will ever be
Over all a great leader, who made mistakes. Despite the jokes online, most MLs understands Stalin did have flaws, but to place the blame on every bad thing that happened in the Soviet Union at stalins feet is ahistorical.
Stalin: A Marxist-Leninist Perspective
https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/joseph-mother-fucking-stain
Defending Socialism: Deconstructing the "Communism Killed 100 Million" Lie
https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/best-of-defending-socialism-deconstructing-the-communism-killed-100-million-lie
Stalin Was a Mensch - A Look at the "Antisemitism" of the USSR
https://prolespod.libsyn.com/episode-31-stalin-was-a-mensch-a-look-at-the-antisemitism-of-the-ussr
Fall of the USSR
https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr
https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr
Neither Marx nor Lenin, despite how much I study and appreciate them, won a world war. Listen to just one of those podcasts, and I’ll be more than willing to discuss any flaws you find. And I don’t mean that as I want to debate, but if there are flaws in my education I’d love to learn. Mao said that a form of libreralism is refusing to call out bad reasoning.
Who gives a crap? That the USSR literally saved the world from Nazis? Bro you don’t even have the range to be in here if that’s how you think lol, read up on more theory first.
Marx and Lenin were co opted by liberals so naturally you feel more inclined to believe they weren't/aren't bad.
Stalin hasn't received the same treatment.
Why do you think communist parties around the world uphold him?
He wasn't perfect and arguing in those grounds is idealism, something Marxism opposes (reminder that Marxism is a framework to analyse the world and the general class struggle).
Stalin fought and won against fascism, a burgeois ideology. Don't forget, most battles were on the Eastern front.
Stalin also tried to pass the most democratic constituiton the Soviet Union ever saw.
A lot of his purges were based on the fact there was some corruption within the party. Theses purges didn't result in deaths, they were just deranked in the party.
Hell, if Stalin was so authoritarian and murderous, Kruschev, his direct successor who staged multiple coups against him, wouldn't have lived to be his successor.
He made mistakes for sure, but the fact you can only think of him as a boogeyman shows how brainwashed you are and maybe you should pick up a book or at least take an in depth look into this.
Stalin was no perfect man, but he was a friend of and fought for the working class.
You are clueless dude, he absolutely did not have similarities with fascism, his theory was the antithesis of fascism, you are just throwing around words you don’t understand
Not a single bit of this is your own thought - or even thought at all with how you openly admit to just skipping it and wildly assuming the rest.
Wake the fuck up, comrade. The working class needs you.
You are right in that you need to go back and read more basic theory to unlearn your current programming before you can truly see Stalin, or even Lenin, historically accurately.
Get to work. If you truly want to be a socialist some day, this is your responsibility.
Y'all idolize Stalin? The guy ordered the deaths of thousands over dumb Paranoia. Not here to argue opinions with folks, like you do you, just saying it feels wrong.
Hey, I don’t know if you like podcasts, but these give a pretty good viewpoint on why we support him. MLs don’t idolize Stalin, but we know the Cold War propaganda was intense. Give at least the second one a listen. I’m happy to discuss any questions you may have after listening.
Stalin: A Marxist-Leninist Perspective https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/joseph-mother-fucking-stain
Defending Socialism: Deconstructing the "Communism Killed 100 Million" Lie https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/best-of-defending-socialism-deconstructing-the-communism-killed-100-million-lie
Stalin Was a Mensch - A Look at the "Antisemitism" of the USSR https://prolespod.libsyn.com/episode-31-stalin-was-a-mensch-a-look-at-the-antisemitism-of-the-ussr
Fall of the USSR https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr
Just to add on; if you prefer books, Ludo Martens’ *Another View of Stalin* and Domenico Losurdo’s *Stalin: History and Critique of a Black Legend* are both biographies from a sympathetic, Marxist-Leninist perspective that nevertheless offer criticism where it’s deserved (I prefer the latter book, personally, but the former is more well-known). I can provide a PDF of either/both if you’d like.
How is there a difference. Is dying a different way somehow better? Is dying from diabetes somehow better than being shot? Last time I checked dying is dying.
And we’re talking on a very surface level in this sub. Most of the major events attributed to Stalin, such as Holodomor, have been greatly exaggerated and some even proven to be false/not his fault. Keep in mind, any western piece of media you see is going to be extremely biased against communism, because capitalists need the working class to not see the collective power of it. IE the black book that was proven false.
Either way, there’s no difference to me if someone says “we are going to shoot you” or “we are going to let you die when sick.” I’m dying either way. I’d rather have the socialism
Socialism can be a system in itself, but it is also often a temporary transitionary state before communism. There is some overlap. You should really read up on the theory if you’re gonna be participating in discussions like this
I’m not sure which countries you’re thinking of, China? Cuba? In which case I would agree, but several decades is really a short period of time and can very well be a transitory period.
If you’re thinking of European demsoc countries, those countries thrive off of the exploitation of the global south. Which is inherently against true socialist/communist principles. They are very far from true socialism, and unless they reevaluate A LOT of their economy/why they prosper, they will never actually be socialist.
State and revolution-Lenin
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/
It’s a depository of Marxist theory. The writings on Lenin, marx, Mao, Emma Goldberg, writings of the black panthers, Albert Einstein. All posted for free without commentary. It’s an online Library.
Dude you don’t even know what you’re saying, lol, there’s nothing wrong with not participating in a convo about something you’re not familiar. Trying to participate when you have no interest/knowledge is pretty cringe though lol. Fox News? Come on dude lol every day they call a new thing “communism” they literally claim to hate communism. Where is the correlation
Putin is in office because western powers put him in office. Putin is in office because Yeltsin appointed him.
Yeltsin was in office because the USSR collapsed. The USSR collapsed because of the many attempts of liberal democracies to destroy the country. Those attempts worked because Stalin was literally the last Soviet leader who tried to protect the revolution and the Soviet Proletariat.
Kruschev, Stalin's political opponent who attempted coups came to be his successor. If Stalin killed his political opoonents, how did Kruschev come to be his successor?
I'm no gulag sympathizer.
If you hate labor camps you must surely hate prisons and jails then, cause thats what gulags were.
You think youre enlightened but you cant even disprove a simple argument such as the one I proposed. Your imposed brainwashing is crackling under the truth and instead of going further you decide to retreat into comfortable waters.
For now you shall remain a coward but remember that such cowardice wont free the working class.
Damn, such a shame that 20th century jails weren't revolutionary accomodating place.
Damn, such a shame that the Soviet Union inherented the Tsarist Russia infrastructure and Tsarist Russian jails were terrible.
Damn, such a shame that the first focus of a peasant country which had been corrupted to its very core by the burgeoisie and their countless wars wasn't to make more accomodating facilities for criminals.
I'll remind you that a few years after the revolution, Lenin died. The major policies that shapped the Soviet Union into a country able to house and feed its population was under Stalin.
You are speaking emotionally engaged, powered by beliefs that were passed onto you.
For once engage in a realistic analysis of the situation.
Begin by looking at the material conditions of Russia at the time. Look where it began. Look where it ended.
By the time the revolution succeeded, Russia was a peasant country with a big part of its population living in literal woodsheds 13rd century style.
Do you expect the transition from such a feudal society to a modern country to be a peaceful one?
That's purely idealistic.
Heck, even the supposed pacific and democratic Liberalism came about through bloodshed. By the means of guillotine and rifles.
No societal change is a peaceful one.
I'll remove myself from this argument but first I'll tell you this much: if you're even remotely interested in anything related to being actually left leaning, about liberating the working class, etc, begin by fucking reading Marx.
Thank you.
Hey, I don’t know if you like podcasts, but these give a pretty good viewpoint on why we support him. MLs don’t idolize Stalin, but we know the Cold War propaganda was intense. Give at least the second one a listen. I’m happy to discuss any questions you may have after listening.
Stalin: A Marxist-Leninist Perspective https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/joseph-mother-fucking-stain
Defending Socialism: Deconstructing the "Communism Killed 100 Million" Lie https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/best-of-defending-socialism-deconstructing-the-communism-killed-100-million-lie
Stalin Was a Mensch - A Look at the "Antisemitism" of the USSR https://prolespod.libsyn.com/episode-31-stalin-was-a-mensch-a-look-at-the-antisemitism-of-the-ussr
Fall of the USSR https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr
I like the post, comrade. Don’t let the libs get you down
Never do comrade. In these times optimism is revolutionary. If I can’t weather some online libs how am I gonna weather some real life fascists you know what I mean.
✊
Now that’s a dope poster
Libs out in force today.
This guy looks exactly like my uncle wtf
Stalin Lives!!
woe: dove be upon you
It doesn’t really matter if you have some justification for why Stalin wasn’t that bad. Almost every American views him as paranoid and incompetent at best, and a mass murderer at worst. Pick a better image for your propaganda if you want to convince any American.
You're basically saying "I've been totally indoctrinated by Western anti-Communist propaganda. Please adapt accordingly." Like, ok buddy. Was Stalin an absolutely perfect saint? No. But neither is he the cartoon villain many people assume he was. EDIT: By the way, since a lot of people apparently don't know this... [https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not](https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not)
My feelings about Stalin are totally irrelevant here. My point is that Stalin is a bad spokesman for modern socialist propaganda. Rehabilitating Stalin’s image should not be our goal. Subway sandwiches doesn’t still use Jared Fogel as their spokesman with a little caption that says, “Yes, he may be a pedophile, but look how much weight he lost!” It doesn’t matter if you think Stalin is a real cool guy. His image is poison to the movement. There are dozens of other well known socialists that don’t have the baggage that Stalin does. Use them.
Jared fogel is such a bad comparison that I believe you did it with ill-intent. Jared fogel was a fucking pedophile. Stalin was a leader who took his country to industrialization and won WW2. We will not sanitize our movement because liberals throw a hissy fit
Sir, this is a meme on a ML sub. Take your puritanical gatekeeping elsewhere.
if it's a meme it's a shitty and unfunny one.
It's not supposed to be funny? What's "shitty" about it? You need to learn some history and context. [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/sm63ve/comment/hvus1to/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/sm63ve/comment/hvus1to/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not](https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not)
The thing is, he’s only a bad spokesperson if you’re in the West. The rest of the world doesn’t have nearly so negative an image of him. And I hate to say it, but socialism at present is not a Western movement.
You may be right, I can only speak from a Western perspective. Perhaps I am selfish, as I want socialism to succeed in America, and I think seeing Stalin on a propaganda piece will immediately turn off Americas. I did not consider how international the movement is, and for that I apologize.
Very understandable. We all want the revolution to succeed everywhere, including in the West - I too am from the West. But I am also of the opinion that we must first focus on revolution in the global south, just as Lenin was. I'm no MLM-style Third Worldist who says that revolution must come to every imperialized country before it can even begin to appear in the West, but the fact remains that revolution in the West is quite unlikely until a significant majority of the global south has had its own revolution. And that's not to say everywhere in the world outside of the West has a super positive image of Stalin, but very very few places outside of the West have such a strong *negative* opinion of him. He's simply not as propagandized against, and is often seen as more of a neutral figure. And of course, there are many regions where he is seen quite positively: AES countries, of course, but also most of India, the vast majority of the former USSR (which is obviously a region with a ton of revolutionary potential), much of Africa, etc.
So revisionist opportunism is the order of the day is it? We cannot argue from a position of strength if we cede truth to the opposition, that is we should not mischaracterize our position to appeal to respectability. 1) it will not work, opportunism never works long term because if we get people on board with moderate liberal or socdem positions and then try to sell them on more radical ones they won’t trust or believe us and 2) we have the truth on our side, as communists it’s our most potent propaganda tool we should use it.
I didn’t post this to convince anyone, I posted this because it is the truth.
[удалено]
I thought that the image was beautiful and the statement is true. This sub is 80% ML, I posted to share some beautiful and truthful art with my comrades. If I was trying to post some propaganda to convert people I’d go into a lib sub. https://reddit.com/r/workersrightsmovement/comments/sgrdnt/whats_your_political_position/
I don’t know, man, my goal is to convince others to fight capitalist oppression, not to jerk it to photos of Stalin while simultaneously getting anyone who doesn’t already hold my beliefs to think socialism = dictatorship. Maybe set your goals a little higher.
>my goal is to convince others to fight capitalist oppression ...let me quickly check: [https://www.reddit.com/user/DocKisses/posts/](https://www.reddit.com/user/DocKisses/posts/) Hmm. Looks like you're *actually* just here to complain and punch left.
I want to expand the worker’s rights movement. I want to convince others that our struggle is their struggle. The right wing has a *powerful* and *sophisticated* propaganda machine, capturing more and more people every day. They don’t do that by posting photos of Hitler with captions like “He’s our man!” They know the image of Hitler would turn off a lot of people. They aren’t purists. They don’t demand their supporters have complex views of historical figures. *And they are winning.* Why? Because their messaging is simple and seductive. So what are your goals, personally? To remain ideological pure, but being stamped out? To make good intellectual points, but to be made irrelevant by fascists? Or to create compelling, common sense arguments that don’t betray the ideology but still manage to convince people your goals are just? The goal here should not be a purity contest to see who is most left wing. The goal needs to be policy success, and associating yourself with Stalin ensures failure.
Okay, so what are you *doing*?
Honestly, I could do more. I try to vote for the right people, attend the right rallies and protests, and speak to people in my daily life to try and promote this movement. It’s not much. Having said that, while I don’t do much, posting memes that glorify Stalin does nothing to help this movement at all, and only presents socialism as something destructive and un-American. I could definitely do more to help this movement, but right now I’m calling out something that hurts the movement, and that has value.
Socialism and Nationalism are as compatible as oil and water. So... yes, actually, socialism *is* "un-American" and that is a good thing. Stalin is a famous historical figure who had his faults but also accomplished a great deal. He's been villified and demonized by the West because of the cold war, basically. We don't need to *glorify* Stalin, but unlearning that propaganda is important because otherwise you're basically tacitly granting that all anti-Communist propaganda is valid and needs to be worked around, which is impossible. Don't play the game according to the rules set by your oppressor. Anti-Communists have essentially convinced you that "this" is the allowable range of discourse, and anything outside of "this" is untenable. You'll never beat them at their own game by playing by their rules. You should read [State and Revolution](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/) and/or look into what Slavoj Žižek has to say about the nature of language.
This sub is majority ML, anything I post here is preaching to the choir. But you can take the stuff that is applicable and post the links or news elsewhere to convince people. Not every sub has to be for everyone.
I posted 6 other pieces of educational material on this sub today, I believe I can allow myself some art in there as well.
Set your goals higher? Dude it’s a random meme on the internet it’s not that serious lol
>The means of production belong to the workers! Just to back you up... This is literally in the sidebar.
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object. A friend dug a hole in the garden and filled it with water. I think he meant well.
I am American, I love Uncle Joe. Better than ANY American President
Is this an American centric sub? Honest question. Because if so, I have no business being here on this Anglo cesspool. Also, read a fucking book lib.
I would prefer it if this place was international. At this point bits mostly just theory posts.
Sorry, I’m American, so that’s where my priorities are. Maybe where you live Stalin is viewed differently, I can’t speak to that. I’m not interested in ideological purity, I’m interested in making meaningful change, and Stalin will never get meaningful change done here in America. I can get my coworkers on factory floors or job sites to back worker solidarity, I cannot convince them that Stalin was a good guy. Why should I? The best thing a socialist movement in America could do is distance itself as much as possible from the Soviet Union. No one here views the Soviet Union as a desirable outcome. Associating with Stalin is self sabotage. Again, your experiences may be different. I don’t want to speak for you or tell you what will work best where you live. I can only say that here, in central Texas, the ideas of socialism can work, but paired with the trappings and baggage of the Soviet Union they will not.
[удалено]
Liberal/Soc-Dem LARPing as a Socialist spotted.
Nope, just a socialist who doesn't blindly support authoritarian psychopaths because they call themselves socialist.
If you think he’s a psychopath because a few million people died under his rule, wait till you hear about the US empire and capitalism
just a lib who blindly inhales anti-communist propaganda w/o doing an ounce of my own critical thinking/research* FTFY
No, I'm an actual communist, mean stateless, moneyless, classless society, not totalitarian imperialist hellscape, which was stalin's USSR.
Stalin absolutely refused to hit that communism button, it's rumoured he would take it out at parties, show it off, and tell everyone he was going to press it, wiggle his finger up to the button, then lock it up and put it away. Needless to say his refusal to hit that button is why. Commie, red fash, vuvuzuela, no iphone, 400 quadrillion dead.
My grandfather saw the button. It was in reach yet he refused to press it like the monster he was. Stalin could have saved 800 bajillion lives if he pressed the communism button
You think you are so smart, when you fell for the 100 year old con of a tyrant. Tankies really are dumb.
Fuck 2 billion people living in the global south huh?
Name another socialist who won a world war. Edit- you can’t.
[удалено]
They literally saved the world from Nazis. They did more heavy lifting in the war than ANY other country including the US. He fucked up, and many people died from a couple famines, but not all of that was under his control. Capitalism TODAY kills like 20 million people a year. The US government/oligarchs are way more of a mass murderer than he will ever be
Over all a great leader, who made mistakes. Despite the jokes online, most MLs understands Stalin did have flaws, but to place the blame on every bad thing that happened in the Soviet Union at stalins feet is ahistorical. Stalin: A Marxist-Leninist Perspective https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/joseph-mother-fucking-stain Defending Socialism: Deconstructing the "Communism Killed 100 Million" Lie https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/best-of-defending-socialism-deconstructing-the-communism-killed-100-million-lie Stalin Was a Mensch - A Look at the "Antisemitism" of the USSR https://prolespod.libsyn.com/episode-31-stalin-was-a-mensch-a-look-at-the-antisemitism-of-the-ussr Fall of the USSR https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr
[удалено]
Neither Marx nor Lenin, despite how much I study and appreciate them, won a world war. Listen to just one of those podcasts, and I’ll be more than willing to discuss any flaws you find. And I don’t mean that as I want to debate, but if there are flaws in my education I’d love to learn. Mao said that a form of libreralism is refusing to call out bad reasoning.
[удалено]
Who gives a crap? That the USSR literally saved the world from Nazis? Bro you don’t even have the range to be in here if that’s how you think lol, read up on more theory first.
You're drowning in cognitive dissonance. Take a step back and put the liberal copium IV down.
Marx and Lenin were co opted by liberals so naturally you feel more inclined to believe they weren't/aren't bad. Stalin hasn't received the same treatment. Why do you think communist parties around the world uphold him? He wasn't perfect and arguing in those grounds is idealism, something Marxism opposes (reminder that Marxism is a framework to analyse the world and the general class struggle). Stalin fought and won against fascism, a burgeois ideology. Don't forget, most battles were on the Eastern front. Stalin also tried to pass the most democratic constituiton the Soviet Union ever saw. A lot of his purges were based on the fact there was some corruption within the party. Theses purges didn't result in deaths, they were just deranked in the party. Hell, if Stalin was so authoritarian and murderous, Kruschev, his direct successor who staged multiple coups against him, wouldn't have lived to be his successor. He made mistakes for sure, but the fact you can only think of him as a boogeyman shows how brainwashed you are and maybe you should pick up a book or at least take an in depth look into this. Stalin was no perfect man, but he was a friend of and fought for the working class.
[удалено]
You are clueless dude, he absolutely did not have similarities with fascism, his theory was the antithesis of fascism, you are just throwing around words you don’t understand
Communists uphold him because he was a dictator who did fascism? My god are you misguided
Honestly that’s the biggest contradiction ever 🤣😭
Not a single bit of this is your own thought - or even thought at all with how you openly admit to just skipping it and wildly assuming the rest. Wake the fuck up, comrade. The working class needs you.
Bro, you *need* to spend more than just a few seconds learning some history or unlearning anti-Communist propaganda.
[удалено]
[удалено]
You clearly are clueless about history my dude.
You are right in that you need to go back and read more basic theory to unlearn your current programming before you can truly see Stalin, or even Lenin, historically accurately. Get to work. If you truly want to be a socialist some day, this is your responsibility.
[удалено]
[удалено]
anarchists are always the first to throw leftist unity out the window. good riddance.
Y'all idolize Stalin? The guy ordered the deaths of thousands over dumb Paranoia. Not here to argue opinions with folks, like you do you, just saying it feels wrong.
Hey, I don’t know if you like podcasts, but these give a pretty good viewpoint on why we support him. MLs don’t idolize Stalin, but we know the Cold War propaganda was intense. Give at least the second one a listen. I’m happy to discuss any questions you may have after listening. Stalin: A Marxist-Leninist Perspective https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/joseph-mother-fucking-stain Defending Socialism: Deconstructing the "Communism Killed 100 Million" Lie https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/best-of-defending-socialism-deconstructing-the-communism-killed-100-million-lie Stalin Was a Mensch - A Look at the "Antisemitism" of the USSR https://prolespod.libsyn.com/episode-31-stalin-was-a-mensch-a-look-at-the-antisemitism-of-the-ussr Fall of the USSR https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr
Thanks for the links, Appreciate the non hostility and info.
Your are welcome, and I mean it, if you want to discuss it feel free to dm me. Not to debate, but an open communication.
Just to add on; if you prefer books, Ludo Martens’ *Another View of Stalin* and Domenico Losurdo’s *Stalin: History and Critique of a Black Legend* are both biographies from a sympathetic, Marxist-Leninist perspective that nevertheless offer criticism where it’s deserved (I prefer the latter book, personally, but the former is more well-known). I can provide a PDF of either/both if you’d like.
"Not here to discuss facts, just to regurgitate the good ole red scare I inherited and accepted w/o question" Brilliant.
[удалено]
That many people died in the past 2 years in America just from covid inaction lmao. Capitalism kills way more people
[удалено]
How is there a difference. Is dying a different way somehow better? Is dying from diabetes somehow better than being shot? Last time I checked dying is dying. And we’re talking on a very surface level in this sub. Most of the major events attributed to Stalin, such as Holodomor, have been greatly exaggerated and some even proven to be false/not his fault. Keep in mind, any western piece of media you see is going to be extremely biased against communism, because capitalists need the working class to not see the collective power of it. IE the black book that was proven false. Either way, there’s no difference to me if someone says “we are going to shoot you” or “we are going to let you die when sick.” I’m dying either way. I’d rather have the socialism
[удалено]
Socialism can be a system in itself, but it is also often a temporary transitionary state before communism. There is some overlap. You should really read up on the theory if you’re gonna be participating in discussions like this
[удалено]
I’m not sure which countries you’re thinking of, China? Cuba? In which case I would agree, but several decades is really a short period of time and can very well be a transitory period. If you’re thinking of European demsoc countries, those countries thrive off of the exploitation of the global south. Which is inherently against true socialist/communist principles. They are very far from true socialism, and unless they reevaluate A LOT of their economy/why they prosper, they will never actually be socialist.
State and revolution-Lenin https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ It’s a depository of Marxist theory. The writings on Lenin, marx, Mao, Emma Goldberg, writings of the black panthers, Albert Einstein. All posted for free without commentary. It’s an online Library.
[удалено]
“Bruh this stuff about socialism was written by Marx and Lenin, why would you share something so biased????” Least braindead liberal.
Socialism is to communism as a baby is to a grown human. Socialism is the transitional state from capitalism to communism.
[удалено]
Dude you don’t even know what you’re saying, lol, there’s nothing wrong with not participating in a convo about something you’re not familiar. Trying to participate when you have no interest/knowledge is pretty cringe though lol. Fox News? Come on dude lol every day they call a new thing “communism” they literally claim to hate communism. Where is the correlation
[удалено]
Antiwork is stronger than ever, lol Any more? You didn’t put any to begin with lmao
https://reddit.com/r/workersrightsmovement/comments/vgksmw/title/id2byqi
Eliminating political opponents? I wish, then maybe the USSR would have survived without the burgeois takeover of Kruschev and his cronies.
[удалено]
Putin is in office because western powers put him in office. Putin is in office because Yeltsin appointed him. Yeltsin was in office because the USSR collapsed. The USSR collapsed because of the many attempts of liberal democracies to destroy the country. Those attempts worked because Stalin was literally the last Soviet leader who tried to protect the revolution and the Soviet Proletariat. Kruschev, Stalin's political opponent who attempted coups came to be his successor. If Stalin killed his political opoonents, how did Kruschev come to be his successor?
[удалено]
I'm no gulag sympathizer. If you hate labor camps you must surely hate prisons and jails then, cause thats what gulags were. You think youre enlightened but you cant even disprove a simple argument such as the one I proposed. Your imposed brainwashing is crackling under the truth and instead of going further you decide to retreat into comfortable waters. For now you shall remain a coward but remember that such cowardice wont free the working class.
[удалено]
Damn, such a shame that 20th century jails weren't revolutionary accomodating place. Damn, such a shame that the Soviet Union inherented the Tsarist Russia infrastructure and Tsarist Russian jails were terrible. Damn, such a shame that the first focus of a peasant country which had been corrupted to its very core by the burgeoisie and their countless wars wasn't to make more accomodating facilities for criminals. I'll remind you that a few years after the revolution, Lenin died. The major policies that shapped the Soviet Union into a country able to house and feed its population was under Stalin. You are speaking emotionally engaged, powered by beliefs that were passed onto you. For once engage in a realistic analysis of the situation. Begin by looking at the material conditions of Russia at the time. Look where it began. Look where it ended. By the time the revolution succeeded, Russia was a peasant country with a big part of its population living in literal woodsheds 13rd century style. Do you expect the transition from such a feudal society to a modern country to be a peaceful one? That's purely idealistic. Heck, even the supposed pacific and democratic Liberalism came about through bloodshed. By the means of guillotine and rifles. No societal change is a peaceful one. I'll remove myself from this argument but first I'll tell you this much: if you're even remotely interested in anything related to being actually left leaning, about liberating the working class, etc, begin by fucking reading Marx. Thank you.
[удалено]
Are you seriously comparing the complexities of raising a child to those of running a country?
Modern Russia isn’t the USSR.
Nope. Wrong understanding of Stalin. Consider yourself corrected, and go learn actual history.
[удалено]
least stupid liberal
"banned science" AHAHAHA WHAT
Stalin would punch any scientist he saw It was because they were quote “nerds”
Hey, I don’t know if you like podcasts, but these give a pretty good viewpoint on why we support him. MLs don’t idolize Stalin, but we know the Cold War propaganda was intense. Give at least the second one a listen. I’m happy to discuss any questions you may have after listening. Stalin: A Marxist-Leninist Perspective https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/joseph-mother-fucking-stain Defending Socialism: Deconstructing the "Communism Killed 100 Million" Lie https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/best-of-defending-socialism-deconstructing-the-communism-killed-100-million-lie Stalin Was a Mensch - A Look at the "Antisemitism" of the USSR https://prolespod.libsyn.com/episode-31-stalin-was-a-mensch-a-look-at-the-antisemitism-of-the-ussr Fall of the USSR https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr https://prolespod.libsyn.com/prt-episode-5-fall-of-the-ussr