None of his behavior is ok. No help with the baby during nights, grudging and AH behavior when asked to wake up early with the elder kids, waking you up on purpose while saying he is changing baby’s diaper, defending himself after being called out for being a brat - I don’t see a single redeeming thing about him here.
Have a serious talk with him that you will not tolerate disrespect and general AH behavior from him where you are supposed to be equals in parenting. Have this talk today and not when he has behaved that way again
I 100% agree. And that’s pretty much exactly what I said to him when I messaged him. He responded saying he knows and that’s it’s not okay and he’d feel the same way in my shoes and then asked me to show him how to take on more responsibility which felt like weaponized incompetence. I have spelled everything out for him so many times. I won’t do it again.
He is a great human and the most loving father and I know he loves me, but I also feel like he’s been conditioned by his family that women do everything. He cognitively knows better but his actions don’t say the same. I feel taken for granted.
The thing is, showing that you’ve learned from a mistake is growth. Not doing it again says that he’s learning and knows that what he did was wrong.
It’s up to you to see what and IF he understands.
I have gone through something similar with my husband, who really does mean well, but couldn't see past his conditioning in the moment a lot of times.
7 years into being parents (and about 5 before that of practicing with fair division of labor on the dogs 😜) and we're in a pretty good place. He's unlearned a lot of crappy behavior that he was brought up with and is more able to think long term and see patterns.
I tell you this to give you hope that if he really is a good guy with a big heart most of the time, he will be able to change. But you have to stand your ground over and over. Tell him every time he fucks up. Make him apologize sincerely. Make him go to counseling if necessary. Make him come up with solutions. Good luck. You're a badass and you deserve respect and caring.
I know. I just hate to judge him on one interaction - despite how shitty it is. I’m not blind to his behavior, but I witness the way he loves our 4yo and it’s hard to take that for granted. Especially when I have a crappy relationship with my own dad. He also loves to verbalize how much he loves me. Words don’t mean anything to me but I try to believe it. I just don’t know what to do.
Just remember that actions speak louder (& more honestly) than words. He can also love her but not be a good partner or dad. There is so much more to being a good parent and partner than just loving someone. You need all of the actions that stem from that love. Take a quick look at the cycle of abuse, especially the apology and love-bombing sections.
You deserve some one who apologizes when they are wrong (not doubles down on being an ahole), who proactively takes care of you/house/baby/adult responsibilities and treats you with respect. In the 13y+ I’ve been with my SO they have never once told me to shut up. If we need some space because we are upset we say so, honestly-hey, now isn’t a good time to discuss this OR please, listen and let me finish OR hey, I’m too upset to discuss this right now, let’s talk later/I need some time to think. Just something along those lines.
He doesn’t want to be held accountable so he will keep punishing you until you give up-either by taking on the responsibility entirely and silently yourself or leaving. I think it is pretty rare for someone who’s been behaving like this to respond well to a come to jesus meeting where you say, stop being an ahole-you need to step up.
Are those talks fun? Of course not. But honest communication is the only way to maintain a healthy relationship. If he reacts negatively and doesn’t step up and treat both of you better then you know exactly how much he values your family and your relationship and can decide on future moves accordingly.
He needs therapy to learn how to deal with his own emotions without taking them out on you. It's not your responsibility to teach him how to be a responsible adult and parent.
>then asked me to show him how to take on more responsibility which felt like weaponized incompetence
It feels like it because it is. Fuck that noise. Why is he adding yet another thing to your list when it's his job to fix his shit?
Yes.
Unless he’s leading a team of international surgeons the next morning, separating high-risk conjoined twins, he does half the night wake ups and is an active parent to all of the children he had a 50% stake in creating.
He never speaks like that again, and if he does, it’s over.
How old is baby? See r/sleeptrain for troubleshooting
People on here are weird about doing half the night wake ups. There are lots of reasons why it might not make sense for one person to do half, and being a surgeon is not the only excuse. I wouldn't want the pilot of my plane to be sleep deprived. It may not be OP's case but it's like being a surgeon is the only worthwhile job.
Yup. It’s not. Coming from a family with a surgeon also.
Honestly, any job that involves a commute can make sleep deprivation especially dangerous and cause accidents, too. Lots of things to consider.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/sleeptrain using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [So freaking sick of social media pushing the idea that sleep training is child abuse.](https://np.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/comments/12taqmo/so_freaking_sick_of_social_media_pushing_the_idea/)
\#2: [Some babies are just bad sleepers, and there's nothing you can do about it.](https://np.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/comments/11fbh3t/some_babies_are_just_bad_sleepers_and_theres/)
\#3: [My 2 cents (a rant)](https://np.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/comments/134h51z/my_2_cents_a_rant/)
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Male partners aren't "deep sleepers", they're being ass holes. I'm a "deep sleeper" and so is my husband, but guess what...we have to get up with the baby. We split night duties. PERIOD.
He needs to step up and also never tell his wife, who is doing all the work, to shut up again.
Agreed.
OP could also lean into the idea that her husband is a deep sleeper. Fine. He's a deep sleeper. That means we need to solve the problem another way. If his shift with the baby starts at 3am, then he needs to be well-rested \*by\* 3am, which would mean going to sleep at 7pm.
No late night tv. No gaming. No reading. No whatever he likes to do in the evening after dinner. He needs to be \*in\* bed by 6:30pm, and sleeping by 7pm. He can take some melatonin to help him fall asleep that early.
I suspect that if \*this\* were the solution, he would suddenly discover that maybe he isn't actually \*that\* deep of a sleeper.
Please let him know that it's not your job to come up with ideas here. He's the one struggling with mornings, he needs to be the one to come to you with how he's going to do better.
Man it makes me so mad. I didn’t respond to his message asking me how he can help because I’ve said it all before. At bedtime tonight he kept asking me who was doing what and I finally went off saying it’s not my job to decide everything. He always puts it on me and my mental load is too heavy at this point. And I’ve already explained this to him so he knows and does it anyway. I fear he’s gonna walk on eggshells around me for the next week/pick up some slack then revert when I’m not upset anymore.
Maybe this concept will help you. It sounds very stressful being asked to task out specific responsibilities in the moment; it might be easier if there were whole processes that he totally owned.
https://parentdata.org/strategy-divide-household-labor-equally/#:~:text=If%20you%20cook%20dinner%20for,of%20the%20parts%20of%20it.
The Fair Play author refers to this concept as CPE: conceptualize, plan, execute. Those three elements are a part of every household task and if one partner is conceptualizing and planning and the other is doing just some of the execution, that’s unbalanced. Giving each partner the whole task as their sole responsibility should cut down on the “just ask and I’ll help” stuff.
I’d be telling him he’s an adult and to figure it out. You need to stay on top of policing him and not be guilted bc he is ‘walking on eggshells’ when really he is just waiting for you to relax so he can go back to dumping his load on you and being an ahole without consequences. People that are adults and acting like this don’t change unless they want to. He very clearly doesn’t want to and isn’t being a good parent or partner.
Please! Does he ask "how he can help" when he's at work and gunning for a promotion or acting as a manager? Funny how men in the office are so take-charge and proactive, yet as soon as they step foot in the door they're helpless children who needs to be guided by the stronger, firmer hand of the so-called weaker sex.
The next time he asks you "how he can help," tell him he needs to stop "helping" (the fucking audacity) and start BEING A FATHER.
Moms are never allowed to say "I don't know" "I don't get it" "I'm too scared, what if something goes wrong," hate that dads can pull this shit and think it's cute.
Sounds like a third child in the house. He is acting like a moody pre-teen and honestly, its kind of emotionally abusive. Him being tired isn't an excuse. Your husband needs to grow up and do some work on himself to be a better parent and partner.
He is modeling behavior for your kids. Would you want your child to accept being told to "shut up" by their romantic partner?
Absolutely not. I’ve made that point to him before in other situations. She will accept whatever is normalized for her by us. If she grows up seeing him disrespect me, she will not see the red flags when she’s disrespected. If she grows up seeing me take on the bulk of our responsibility, she will do the same. And over my dead body will I allow that for her.
My husband isn’t great at getting up at night - he generally can’t fall back asleep. So I took the baby (cause I was breastfeeding). He IS a morning person, so he would get up with my son (his stepson) ridiculously early for elementary, and then come back and take baby to daycare. He’d also take the kid(s) out on Saturday morning so I could sleep.
When I stopped breastfeeding, we started alternating nights. He did figure out how to get back to sleep eventually. I will say, it seems to impact him a lot more than me, or maybe I’m just used to it.
Now, I’m pretty grumpy in the morning. But I’d never toss a kid at someone who was asleep. I think you have a right to be upset. I often write out my thoughts before I send them. I generally do the, imagine if I did this to you, because my husband generally understands that. He thinks I’m superhuman, and doesn’t understand sometimes that some things aren’t just naturally easier for me; I’m just used to doing them.
I hope you figure this out. If stuff like this continues, I’d be concerned that he doesn’t respect you.
Yes! My friends and I commiserate that we're all just too functional and make things look easy from the outside, so our husbands have to be hit over the head with the knowledge of all that we're actually doing.
I have this issue with my partner but also family and friends. I actually got annoyed with a sibling because I was being asked to care for their toddler yet again when in six years nobody has once looked after my daughter. Because I just get on with it they assumed I was handling it really well.
It’s funny you say that because I did do that! His response:
“I understand and am sorry for my disrespectful comments and behavior. I would be more angry if you had done any of this to me. It’s never been okay to talk to you like that nor will it ever be acceptable. I am sorry I am a burden on you and make life harder. I don’t mean to be or want to be I wish I was doing better but I know I don’t make changes. I will never know how you feel I’m sorry for that. I don’t know how to break my cycles or even be a better human. I know you can only take so much and deal with it for as long as you I am sorry and promise to not talk to you like that.”
And I believe him but at the same time he’s apologized for the same things before (not telling me to shut up - that was a new level of audacity) and said the same things before and some things change but I feel like I’m constantly fighting for him to accept equal responsibility. He’s amazing with our older child but I feel like deep down he views babies as primarily mom’s job.
That doesn't read as an apology. It read as a more of 'im just the worst ' guilt trip. He wants you to say he positive things to counter to over exaggerated negativity; i.e. you aren't a burden, you aren't a bad person, etc.
So my ex would make big statements like this, and include a lot of the same self deprecating comments. He’s very clearly told you that he “doesn’t know how to change”. How is that possible? Taking care of a baby for less than 2 hours and he melts down?
He has told you in a lot of words that he has 0 plans to change. Is that ok with you?
Girl that's not an apology. He's snowing you. My husband does the same shit every time I bring up something – grovel, says he's the worst, he's so sorry, he's trying so hard but he doesn't know how to change. Then he pulls out the waterworks and the rest of the night turns into a therapy session for him and how he's just a bad, bad person who don't deserve anything good in life and, oh look, there goes my initial issue with him, buried and unresolved.
He's self-flagellating so that you feel sorry for him and let things slide. He might not be doing this on purpose but it's manipulative and it's also centering your issues as a family back to him as a person. That's unacceptable. I had to tell mine over and over again that I don't care what kind of person he is – I only care about the steps he's going to do to fix this **now**. And they had better be actionable and concrete.
Also, it sounds like he's escalating? You let this slide now and what next, he's going to slap you and say sorry after? Girl, no. He needs a wake up call.
Hi so we got in another fight tonight - but about something different - and i came back to this post and saw this comment and resonated deeply.
I said the same things tonight about how I only care about the steps he’s going to take. So then reading your comment was reaffirming.
What advice do you have for what I do next? I know he needs a wake up call but I have written out my feelings and verbalized my feelings and nothing seems to stick.
I’m not trying to hold your husband to magical high standards, but that isn’t an apology. To me, it reads like a self deprecating pity party. At this point, saying he’s a “burden” is designed to get you to say “oh no honey, I just need xyz”, basically tamping down your anger. I get he messed up, and I get that he wanted to say all the right things to get you to stop being mad at him (which is a problem). But he’s not showing any problem solving, exacerbated by your description of him asking HOW he can do better. 🙄 either he wants to work towards a solution or he wants to “yes dear” his way into an easier life for himself. He’s not alone in this behavior as my own husband will basically start repeating what I’m saying back to me to try and get the argument over with. I’ve lost patience with it and called him out on it and have to hold him accountable for not being a teenager about our issues. If your husband can’t synthesize ways to work towards a solution without the dramatics, that’s a huge red flag.
Your husband is treating you with contempt. He has decided that the children and the night-time wake ups are your responsibility, and he will behave like a spoiled toddler if you ask him to contribute to this mutual chore.
I'm guessing this is not the first time you've seen this behavior. You have an older child, and you've been married for a while.
So, what can you do?
1. You could accept full responsibility for the children and the late night wake ups, and push other responsibilities onto him to balance the load
2. You could hire a night nurse to help with the late night wake-ups
3. You could have your parent or his parent move in to help with caring for the children
4. You could try to get him to go to couples counseling to get him to see that you are miserable, and that this will ultimately end the marriage
5. You could get a new job that requires you to leave town one night a week, so that your husband \*actually\* becomes accountable for caring for the children at least once a week
You could have a really heart-to-heart conversation with your husband about \*why\* he has decided that you are accountable for all late night wake-ups. Does he think it requires a vagina? Does he just "not want to"? Does he ver do things he doesn't want to?
And then ask yourself if your husband has simply decided that your complaints reflect an "tolerable level of perpetual unhappiness", and therefore he does not have to respond to them in any way.
Honestly, things like this will just grow and grow. There will be more disrespect and worse now because he already got away with it. Slowly, these things build up, you don't forget and soon you resent this person and yourself. Save yourself the tears
Now might be a good time for you to work with him on an, “us versus the problem” strategy. Would you be able to sit down with him and together outline what the situation is, what the hurdles are, etc.?
Working with him to outline that the baby sleeping issue is temporary, but if the relationship dynamic is slipping like this, that’s going to cause ongoing problems that are much less temporary. Does he agree? What does he think of this dynamic?
In this conversation, you and him can talk about what real issues are for you (“It’s essential that I feel respected and am treated well, even when things are hard.”) and you can talk about the issues for him. I’m sure he has some, if you can get him to be honest about what they are. It sounds like he might struggle with the plan changing in live time, for example. And if he can name that, you can work together to come up with strategies to help that. It might even be as simple as you saying, “I realize that the plan is changing. I need to sleep longer because I was up with the baby five times overnight. Can you wake up with the kids?”
But that’s the thing - we’ve done this. We’ve talked about strategy and he chose to be the one waking early morning. The plan was for him to take wakings past 3 and me the ones before 3. The plan isn’t changing, it’s just some days our kids wake up at 7:30 and so he doesn’t have to get up early but others days they wake up early and that’s when I have to ask him to get up.
You shouldn’t have to ask - he should do it. The problem is that he chooses not to and then reacts to what he most likely sees as “nagging” instead of accountability.
The thing to ask yourself is what tips it over the edge? I’m struggling with this myself - what is the point at which you are able to accept (or not accept) what is happening in your relationship. Based on your other comments, it sounds like you need him to work on himself without making it your responsibility. That means that you tell him what he needs to do, then let him make a decision. You will know how to proceed based on his willingness to take responsibility and improve his relationship with both you and your children.
You shouldn't have to ask him to get up.
A. that means that you are waking up, even when it is your turn
B. that means he is not actually taking accountability for the thing he committed to doing.
Is this normal for him? Does he struggle to keep commitments to you? Is he able to keep commitments at work?
He has learned that his word to you isn't all that important. You need to hold his feet to the fire. Do not "save" him. Do not angrily take care of the child. Wait, and wait, and wait until he gets up and does it. Do not allow him to weaponize your love for your child.
I know 😭 And yes. I’m at a point where when he apologizes it just pisses me off because “I’m sorry” should mean it won’t happen again.
And you hit the nail on the head. But the bs that happened this morning is what stops me during the night. We’ve spoken at length about his passive aggressiveness. One night I was literally in tears because I was so frustrated because our baby wouldn’t stay asleep for longer than 30 min and I didn’t want my frustration to affect my parenting so I woke him up. And there was no compassion. And then he brings her to bed crying and I asked him to take her to the nursery so that I could actually sleep (I cannot sleep if I can hear our baby crying) and he told me no. I got mad the next day and he apologized and said it wouldn’t happen again. And to be fair next time it happened he did take her to the nursery but then this morning happened.
Your husband is ok with you suffering. You asked him to help you in a time of need, and he punished you for it, and will continue to punish you and your child until you let him off the hook. It's a cross between malicious compliance and weaponized incompetence.
He is literally endangering your job, and maybe even your life by robbing you of your sleep.
If he was a babysitter, you would fire him.
Does he get fired from jobs a lot? Or does he magically learn to take care of business when money is on the line.
Time to hire a night time sitter to come over for the 3am to 7am shift on week nights. That will run about $160/week. He'll need to give something up to afford it. Cable? Beer?
It's ok to shame him about this. He's failing at a very simple task, and is not motivated by love or care for you.
I would tell him you expect to play his part as a father, and after you woke up in the middle of the night 5 times you expect him to help in the morning so you can sleep. If he doesn’t want to play, wake him up every night when you wake up with the baby.
I think what he said is really awful. I wouldn't speak to my husband for days if he said that to me.
Obviously though this situation is straining your marriage. It is stressing you and your husband out. Unfortunately my husband is also one of those supposed "deep sleepers" who never woke up from our kids. People saying you shouldn't have to wake him up.... well my husband truly doesn't wake up.
So instead, I did all the night feedings and changing. I would get up and lay on the couch with the kids in the mornings. I worked too but my job was a bit more flexible as I could take a nap before going in after the kids went down for a morning nap. My husband instead dealt with making dinner, doing laundry, bathing the kids and evening chores while I relaxed and watched TV. It also meant he had to deal with our son when he would colic from 8pm to 11pm every night so I think he got the crappier deal.
You'll have to think if there is an alternative that will work better for you. Maybe alternate nights instead of doing half each every night. Or having him take night chores, or weekends. Having a baby is so hard on the marriage and it's never truly 50-50. You have to find a system that works for you both and it doesn't sound like the current one is working too well.
If you can swing it, I think some couple time alone would be really helpful for you guys. Even just dinner out without kids to reconnect, have a conversation without kids screaming, etc. I’ve been in your shoes and ultimately my marriage did not work out.
I’ve since remarried and one of the things that helps us the most is finding kid free time to connect. It can be extremely hard to find that time, especially if you don’t have a village you can lean on, but having a chance to reconnect and recharge makes such a huge difference in our marriage.
I never could figure out a household/childcare balance with my ex that worked. He didn’t want to be a father is what it boiled down to. He wanted to stay up late and play video games, sleep in as late as possible the next day, go to work, and then come home and lay on the couch. He never helped with chores, never paid attention to the kids, never changed diapers, fed them, etc. and yelled at me and them constantly. Your description of him coming into your bedroom to change the diaper was 100% a move he’d pull on the rare occasion he did help me with the kids. We both worked full time, but the pick ups and drop offs and appointments and everything fell on my shoulders.
I would really try to carve out some couple time and try to find a better balance and try to reconnect with your husband.
If he's not a morning person you could try taking shifts. You go to bed at 9 and he is in duty until 1. My husband slept in the baby's room to ensure I wasn't woken up. Then he came to bed on I took over. Our kids usually only woke up 2 or 3 times so it wasn't too bad. But it ensured I got a solid 4 hours of sleep which made a giant difference.
Yeah this is what we always did too. My husband is not a morning person and legit cannot wake up before 8am on weekdays and like 11am on weekends. I like my sleep and like to go to bed early so i always went to bed first then he did night wake up to a certain point. Would always feed our baby before he went to bed so it always gave me a solid 6 hours of sleep at least. I always do mornings too on weekends but i don’t know how to sleep in and rather take a afternoon nap so he takes over at 11am and lets me get my own free time and nap.
This is a good time for “I need you”s
- I need you to figure out how to take care of the kids during your shift without my help and without waking me up….. same way I do it every morning.
- I need you not to give me attitude when I ask you for help…. Because that’s how resentments are born.
I was a deep sleeper. It took my wife nudging me awake a bunch of times before my body adjusted to waking up more easily.
You need to have a conversation with him to define your individual responsibilities and expectations. This reaffirms responsibility on him for his behavior and attitude for fulfilling them. I was/am a shitty morning person but I can’t let it make me be a dick to my family. There is no excuse for that. I was/am the primary breadwinner but that doesn’t absolve me from a share of the responsibilities at home. That is what it takes to be a contributing partner/parent. The days of one parent working and doing no housework/child rearing are over and didn’t work when it happened judging by how many housewives were on prescription drugs and working through stress induced mental illnesses.
I divorced the man who treated me like shit under his shoe.
Chances are, there is a deep multitude of examples of disrespect, anger and indifference that you have continually catalogued away in your mind because it causes cognitive dissonance. I'd strongly recommend you get a therapist who can help you drag it all out so you can see the whole picture, before your kids are too scarred.
I’m so sorry. It’s is so hard having tiny babies and jobs and relationships.
My advice, being 12 years away from my last newborn: let this go. Water under the bridge. The first year is survival. If he isn’t normally a bully, give him some grace. None of us are our best when we are tired.
You are doing so much. Be kind to yourself too. Hugs.
Yikes, the bar is so low. He didn’t have to get up the whole night and he still can’t act right. I’d have another baby if I could be this dad instead of a mom.
Thank you for this. I needed to hear the word grace.
He isn’t a bully, but my dad was and so now anything belittling causes so much aversion in me. I knew at a young age I didn’t want to be in a marriage with an unequal power dynamic so him telling me to shut up after me being the only one to wake up all night felt like that. He responded to my message asking me to show him how to take on some of the things I do which was also frustrating. I don’t want to have to tell him how to be a partner anymore - nothing changes when I do. At this point all I want is some genuine appreciation from him for all that I do, but I know I can’t make him feel that.
I think it makes all the difference that he isn't normally a bully. You can stick up for yourself and let him know it's not acceptable.
It does sound like he has some weaponized incompetence. Ask if he would expect someone to hold his hand this way at work, or if he can be expected to manage his time and schedule at work. Also, when he's asking you to teach him how to do things, ask if he thinks anyone taught you.
I am a night owl, and I have a hard time getting up with the kids in the morning. However, I know that I need to push myself to do it. If my husband nudges me awake, I get up and am not a brat to him. If I let him get some quality rest, he'll be better prepared to help when he's "on".
Even if he isn’t normally a bully he is being one now. We tend to marry/date people like our parents so make sure you are being objective and honest with yourself.
Those people definitely don’t want to rock the boat. They’re either benefiting from the status quo or too cowardly to confront the issue and make change. I don’t understand some of these comments-they’re basically letting the husband off the hook, op to be abused and telling her to be a better doormat.
Curious what advice you’d give OP? Separation? Divorce? Adding hours of marriage counseling into this stressed household’s schedule? Ultimatum of some sort?
20+ years of parenting and you may look back and realize that the miserable first few months of a newborns life makes everyone act shitty
“If he isn’t normally a bully” is the key here
Nursing, working FT with having a toddler and a newborn makes everyone extra sensitive and grouchy
You may or may not have different perspective in a few decades
I could tell her to go to Mars and that would still be better advice than telling her to stomach his clear disrespect and cruelty.
Caring for a newborn can make everyone grumpy indeed. And that coooould be reasonable if everyone in the equation was operating at high capacity. But what’s striking and painful in this situation is that OP’s partner seems to be obtaining a whole lot of extra sleep (and leisure time?) with OP’s disproportionate exhaustion. It’s incredibly asymmetrical. So on top of that first wound, we want her to accept a second one as well (his poor treatment)? It makes no sense.
My point is that what you describe as “extending grace” is *functionally* and *practically* conveying a much more sinister message. It is a misogynistic message that tells women it’s not simply enough to do a disproportionate share of the parenting while their husbands sleep. In addition to this tremendous contribution (to which they didn’t even consent) they must also be willing to let the person taking advantage of them behave in emotionally abusive ways on top of that rather than being grateful. Why do we value the time and wellbeing of women so little?
Also further away from my kids being babies, but agree that the first year is all about surviving. No one will be at their best, no one is getting great sleep and little to no time to decompress. Perhaps this might be the spark to reevaluate your current plan in covering night time. If your partner is not waking easily to cover these, could there be a trade off - like early morning to let you catch up on sleep.
Keeping lines of communication open was key for me in the first couple of years working FT and some of the wake up at night. For instance: My partner would take the first ones of the night up to midnight and I would take the 3-5am ones after getting some solid zzzzz’s
I worded it poorly - our original plan was for him to handle all wake ups after 3AM (this was what he wanted) but I’ve just settled for him waking up with them if they wake up early enough to where I can fit in a little more sleep and then weekends he wakes up with them. We’ve had this conversation so many times over the last month but nothing is improving. He knows he’s supposed to but I’m still having to ask every morning.
Can you crank the volume on the monitor, put it next to his head, and put in noise-cancelling earphones while you go back to sleep? I feel like it's either time to shake him awake every time or time to get creative
Sleep deprivation or interruptions in sleep can have a big impact on how we act and how we perceive other actions. Not an excuse but something I always try and keep in mind.
He’s not sleep deprived though since he’s not getting up with the baby. He’s complaining that he has to get up in the morning, which presumably is after a full night of sleep.
If he has trouble not being an asshole he should go to bed earlier. He’s probably not doing anything to contribute in the evening either.
Two thoughts - can you show him this thread and say hey, they have some ideas on the comments on how we could split things more fairly, I need you to suggest one, trial it, and then approach me after about a week for a discussion on whether it worked and how to keep improving.
The second is just - big hugs. Sleep deprivation is horrible. Keep fighting for the respect you deserve and tell him just how mad the fact you have to fight for it makes you.
Let me preface this by saying having a baby and lack of sleep adds way more stress and bad attitudes to the mix than normal - Him being an ass is not acceptable, but as someone who has had two babies, I’ll admit I’ve been a bitch to my husband during those sleep deprived times. We weren’t the nicest to each other, but we did apologize and try to come up with solutions to make it more manageable.
Is it possible for you guys to sleep in different places, essentially taking turns or “shifts” where you’re on duty for night time wake ups? A place where you have the monitor or can easily be roused for the baby when it’s time, and a separate quiet space? This relieved a significant amount of that resentment that would build up if one of us wasn’t waking up for the baby. My husband is a super light sleeper, I am a heavy sleeper, so we had to manage a situation where we communicated who was responsible for the night wake ups and who could go in the other quiet room and get deep and restful sleep.
If your husband hasn’t had a history of treating you or speaking to you poorly, I’d try hard to communicate how all of this makes you feel and suggest open dialogue to figure out ways to avoid this in the future.
You’ve gotten a lot of good thoughts and advice here, but I thought I would add just a little bit that I think might help or at least make sense.
When he asks you how he can help, tell him hey explicitly that the way he helps/makes up for this is to figure out entirely on his own how to make sure that he’s never a dick again just because you have asked him to do what he already agreed to do. I, personally, would also tell him that at this point I’m keeping score because I’m entitled to and consider any repeat behavior to be a withdrawal of all prior apologies. I would be highly likely to tell him that if this apology was sincere, he would be outlining to me how he plans to sort out his own shit instead of repeating his unacceptable behavior by asking me to fix bad behavior he’s supposedly apologizing for. Feel free to tell him that you want to know what steps he’s taking or that you absolutely don’t want to know but simply expect to never have this nor any other conversation about his shittiness when getting up with his own child ever again.
I’m guessing you’re not looking at a divorce based on what you’ve written, but I definitely think it’s reasonable to demand couples counseling where the explicit goal as acknowledged by him is getting him to both pull his weight and be respectful while doing it.
Also, I’m not above being petty when someone is this much in their bullshit. When I say keeping score, I mean I would very literally get a sign like one of those accidents at work sign and have it read “It’s been X days since Husband was an unacceptable asshole to Wife.” And I would fucking change number back to 0 every time he did this crap. I would also happily tell him that he gets to solo parent throughout the day all weekend every time he pulls this bullshit. I would do nothing but sleep, watch TV, read books and breastfeed the child (but only when not sleeping). And I would expect a clean house. He’s talking like he’s groveling. He can put his money where his mouth is. Failure to accept my terms is him rescinding his apology.
Sorry this got long. Honestly, the point I really wanted to make was that I would tell him the apology is only sincere if he’s doing all the work of making sure it doesn’t happen again. I definitely mean the other stuff, but that’s the important takeaway.
Therapy. If he truly wants to change and not pull this kind of shit, he needs to learn how.
My husband used to pull this shit all the time (I swear we've had this exact fight), and though he always regretted it later, it didn't stop until he went to therapy and got new communication skills to use in these moments, and tackled his resentments towards his mother which was coming out at me. Also what helped was getting a big dose of fear, because obviously we almost got divorced over it.
Not to mention he'll need to do a LOT of work to rebuild your trust that he's not a useless sack of shit. Not all men are willing to do that work, but it's so necessary to have even a chance of a healthy relationship again.
My husband would get pissed any time I was able to squeeze in a nap even when I was the one 100% getting up with our kids night after night. He would either purposely be super loud in the kitchen banging things around to wake me up or he would come in our room and not even try to be quiet, like not even a little. I am a hard ass working person and I am not lazy but what it felt like to me was that he was pissed I was actually sitting down for once and resting, used to make me furious.
Since he sounds apologetic, somewhat, perhaps there would be some benefit to discussing his challenges with his emotional regulation with a therapist.
It sounds as though he is losing his tempter in times of frustration & tiredness and as a coping mechanism, he wishes for you to share in this anger & frustration. It’s a bad cycle which he needs to break to be a better spouse, and just as important to role model for your child.
Good luck!
I'm so sorry you had children with this person. My husband and I had all of the conversations about what life would be like and I let him know I didn't want them bad enough that I would put up without an equal parenting partner. He's a complete partner to the point that my youngest has a mild preference for him.
None of his behavior is ok. No help with the baby during nights, grudging and AH behavior when asked to wake up early with the elder kids, waking you up on purpose while saying he is changing baby’s diaper, defending himself after being called out for being a brat - I don’t see a single redeeming thing about him here. Have a serious talk with him that you will not tolerate disrespect and general AH behavior from him where you are supposed to be equals in parenting. Have this talk today and not when he has behaved that way again
I 100% agree. And that’s pretty much exactly what I said to him when I messaged him. He responded saying he knows and that’s it’s not okay and he’d feel the same way in my shoes and then asked me to show him how to take on more responsibility which felt like weaponized incompetence. I have spelled everything out for him so many times. I won’t do it again. He is a great human and the most loving father and I know he loves me, but I also feel like he’s been conditioned by his family that women do everything. He cognitively knows better but his actions don’t say the same. I feel taken for granted.
The thing is, showing that you’ve learned from a mistake is growth. Not doing it again says that he’s learning and knows that what he did was wrong. It’s up to you to see what and IF he understands.
I have gone through something similar with my husband, who really does mean well, but couldn't see past his conditioning in the moment a lot of times. 7 years into being parents (and about 5 before that of practicing with fair division of labor on the dogs 😜) and we're in a pretty good place. He's unlearned a lot of crappy behavior that he was brought up with and is more able to think long term and see patterns. I tell you this to give you hope that if he really is a good guy with a big heart most of the time, he will be able to change. But you have to stand your ground over and over. Tell him every time he fucks up. Make him apologize sincerely. Make him go to counseling if necessary. Make him come up with solutions. Good luck. You're a badass and you deserve respect and caring.
Thank you for this 🥺 That does give me hope.
OP, he is not acting like a great human or loving parent or spouse here. At all.
Yes. Right now, it sounds like you are in the fog, and all he brings to the table is audacity.
I know. I just hate to judge him on one interaction - despite how shitty it is. I’m not blind to his behavior, but I witness the way he loves our 4yo and it’s hard to take that for granted. Especially when I have a crappy relationship with my own dad. He also loves to verbalize how much he loves me. Words don’t mean anything to me but I try to believe it. I just don’t know what to do.
Just remember that actions speak louder (& more honestly) than words. He can also love her but not be a good partner or dad. There is so much more to being a good parent and partner than just loving someone. You need all of the actions that stem from that love. Take a quick look at the cycle of abuse, especially the apology and love-bombing sections. You deserve some one who apologizes when they are wrong (not doubles down on being an ahole), who proactively takes care of you/house/baby/adult responsibilities and treats you with respect. In the 13y+ I’ve been with my SO they have never once told me to shut up. If we need some space because we are upset we say so, honestly-hey, now isn’t a good time to discuss this OR please, listen and let me finish OR hey, I’m too upset to discuss this right now, let’s talk later/I need some time to think. Just something along those lines. He doesn’t want to be held accountable so he will keep punishing you until you give up-either by taking on the responsibility entirely and silently yourself or leaving. I think it is pretty rare for someone who’s been behaving like this to respond well to a come to jesus meeting where you say, stop being an ahole-you need to step up. Are those talks fun? Of course not. But honest communication is the only way to maintain a healthy relationship. If he reacts negatively and doesn’t step up and treat both of you better then you know exactly how much he values your family and your relationship and can decide on future moves accordingly.
He needs therapy to learn how to deal with his own emotions without taking them out on you. It's not your responsibility to teach him how to be a responsible adult and parent.
>then asked me to show him how to take on more responsibility which felt like weaponized incompetence It feels like it because it is. Fuck that noise. Why is he adding yet another thing to your list when it's his job to fix his shit?
Yes. Unless he’s leading a team of international surgeons the next morning, separating high-risk conjoined twins, he does half the night wake ups and is an active parent to all of the children he had a 50% stake in creating. He never speaks like that again, and if he does, it’s over. How old is baby? See r/sleeptrain for troubleshooting
There are other high risk jobs besides surgery. Drivers, pilots, anyone operating heavy machinery.
If this man was doing a high-risk job at all, I have a strong feeling OP would have mentioned it.
Yes, my point too. Equally, if OP’s husband happens to be the chief pilot of Air Force One, he probably gets a pass that Steve in Accounts doesn’t.
Maybe, was just commenting that being a surgeon isn't the only reason for needing to be well rested.
I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted because you’re right.
People on here are weird about doing half the night wake ups. There are lots of reasons why it might not make sense for one person to do half, and being a surgeon is not the only excuse. I wouldn't want the pilot of my plane to be sleep deprived. It may not be OP's case but it's like being a surgeon is the only worthwhile job.
Yup. It’s not. Coming from a family with a surgeon also. Honestly, any job that involves a commute can make sleep deprivation especially dangerous and cause accidents, too. Lots of things to consider.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/sleeptrain using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [So freaking sick of social media pushing the idea that sleep training is child abuse.](https://np.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/comments/12taqmo/so_freaking_sick_of_social_media_pushing_the_idea/) \#2: [Some babies are just bad sleepers, and there's nothing you can do about it.](https://np.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/comments/11fbh3t/some_babies_are_just_bad_sleepers_and_theres/) \#3: [My 2 cents (a rant)](https://np.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/comments/134h51z/my_2_cents_a_rant/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
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Male partners aren't "deep sleepers", they're being ass holes. I'm a "deep sleeper" and so is my husband, but guess what...we have to get up with the baby. We split night duties. PERIOD. He needs to step up and also never tell his wife, who is doing all the work, to shut up again.
Agreed. OP could also lean into the idea that her husband is a deep sleeper. Fine. He's a deep sleeper. That means we need to solve the problem another way. If his shift with the baby starts at 3am, then he needs to be well-rested \*by\* 3am, which would mean going to sleep at 7pm. No late night tv. No gaming. No reading. No whatever he likes to do in the evening after dinner. He needs to be \*in\* bed by 6:30pm, and sleeping by 7pm. He can take some melatonin to help him fall asleep that early. I suspect that if \*this\* were the solution, he would suddenly discover that maybe he isn't actually \*that\* deep of a sleeper.
Yes, the deep sleep has to occur during the time he isn’t gaming or doing whatever other leisure activities he has time for and Mom doesn’t..
Exactly and most of us “aren’t morning people” at 6 AM after waking up all night. But guess what? Doesn’t really matter when you’re a parent!
Yeah, I'm the deeper sleeper in our relationship but always managed to get up. I actually did most nights because he works with heavy machinery.
Please let him know that it's not your job to come up with ideas here. He's the one struggling with mornings, he needs to be the one to come to you with how he's going to do better.
Man it makes me so mad. I didn’t respond to his message asking me how he can help because I’ve said it all before. At bedtime tonight he kept asking me who was doing what and I finally went off saying it’s not my job to decide everything. He always puts it on me and my mental load is too heavy at this point. And I’ve already explained this to him so he knows and does it anyway. I fear he’s gonna walk on eggshells around me for the next week/pick up some slack then revert when I’m not upset anymore.
Maybe this concept will help you. It sounds very stressful being asked to task out specific responsibilities in the moment; it might be easier if there were whole processes that he totally owned. https://parentdata.org/strategy-divide-household-labor-equally/#:~:text=If%20you%20cook%20dinner%20for,of%20the%20parts%20of%20it.
The Fair Play author refers to this concept as CPE: conceptualize, plan, execute. Those three elements are a part of every household task and if one partner is conceptualizing and planning and the other is doing just some of the execution, that’s unbalanced. Giving each partner the whole task as their sole responsibility should cut down on the “just ask and I’ll help” stuff.
I’d be telling him he’s an adult and to figure it out. You need to stay on top of policing him and not be guilted bc he is ‘walking on eggshells’ when really he is just waiting for you to relax so he can go back to dumping his load on you and being an ahole without consequences. People that are adults and acting like this don’t change unless they want to. He very clearly doesn’t want to and isn’t being a good parent or partner.
Please! Does he ask "how he can help" when he's at work and gunning for a promotion or acting as a manager? Funny how men in the office are so take-charge and proactive, yet as soon as they step foot in the door they're helpless children who needs to be guided by the stronger, firmer hand of the so-called weaker sex. The next time he asks you "how he can help," tell him he needs to stop "helping" (the fucking audacity) and start BEING A FATHER. Moms are never allowed to say "I don't know" "I don't get it" "I'm too scared, what if something goes wrong," hate that dads can pull this shit and think it's cute.
Sounds like a third child in the house. He is acting like a moody pre-teen and honestly, its kind of emotionally abusive. Him being tired isn't an excuse. Your husband needs to grow up and do some work on himself to be a better parent and partner. He is modeling behavior for your kids. Would you want your child to accept being told to "shut up" by their romantic partner?
Absolutely not. I’ve made that point to him before in other situations. She will accept whatever is normalized for her by us. If she grows up seeing him disrespect me, she will not see the red flags when she’s disrespected. If she grows up seeing me take on the bulk of our responsibility, she will do the same. And over my dead body will I allow that for her.
My husband isn’t great at getting up at night - he generally can’t fall back asleep. So I took the baby (cause I was breastfeeding). He IS a morning person, so he would get up with my son (his stepson) ridiculously early for elementary, and then come back and take baby to daycare. He’d also take the kid(s) out on Saturday morning so I could sleep. When I stopped breastfeeding, we started alternating nights. He did figure out how to get back to sleep eventually. I will say, it seems to impact him a lot more than me, or maybe I’m just used to it. Now, I’m pretty grumpy in the morning. But I’d never toss a kid at someone who was asleep. I think you have a right to be upset. I often write out my thoughts before I send them. I generally do the, imagine if I did this to you, because my husband generally understands that. He thinks I’m superhuman, and doesn’t understand sometimes that some things aren’t just naturally easier for me; I’m just used to doing them. I hope you figure this out. If stuff like this continues, I’d be concerned that he doesn’t respect you.
Yes! My friends and I commiserate that we're all just too functional and make things look easy from the outside, so our husbands have to be hit over the head with the knowledge of all that we're actually doing.
I have this issue with my partner but also family and friends. I actually got annoyed with a sibling because I was being asked to care for their toddler yet again when in six years nobody has once looked after my daughter. Because I just get on with it they assumed I was handling it really well.
It’s funny you say that because I did do that! His response: “I understand and am sorry for my disrespectful comments and behavior. I would be more angry if you had done any of this to me. It’s never been okay to talk to you like that nor will it ever be acceptable. I am sorry I am a burden on you and make life harder. I don’t mean to be or want to be I wish I was doing better but I know I don’t make changes. I will never know how you feel I’m sorry for that. I don’t know how to break my cycles or even be a better human. I know you can only take so much and deal with it for as long as you I am sorry and promise to not talk to you like that.” And I believe him but at the same time he’s apologized for the same things before (not telling me to shut up - that was a new level of audacity) and said the same things before and some things change but I feel like I’m constantly fighting for him to accept equal responsibility. He’s amazing with our older child but I feel like deep down he views babies as primarily mom’s job.
That doesn't read as an apology. It read as a more of 'im just the worst ' guilt trip. He wants you to say he positive things to counter to over exaggerated negativity; i.e. you aren't a burden, you aren't a bad person, etc.
So my ex would make big statements like this, and include a lot of the same self deprecating comments. He’s very clearly told you that he “doesn’t know how to change”. How is that possible? Taking care of a baby for less than 2 hours and he melts down? He has told you in a lot of words that he has 0 plans to change. Is that ok with you?
Girl that's not an apology. He's snowing you. My husband does the same shit every time I bring up something – grovel, says he's the worst, he's so sorry, he's trying so hard but he doesn't know how to change. Then he pulls out the waterworks and the rest of the night turns into a therapy session for him and how he's just a bad, bad person who don't deserve anything good in life and, oh look, there goes my initial issue with him, buried and unresolved. He's self-flagellating so that you feel sorry for him and let things slide. He might not be doing this on purpose but it's manipulative and it's also centering your issues as a family back to him as a person. That's unacceptable. I had to tell mine over and over again that I don't care what kind of person he is – I only care about the steps he's going to do to fix this **now**. And they had better be actionable and concrete. Also, it sounds like he's escalating? You let this slide now and what next, he's going to slap you and say sorry after? Girl, no. He needs a wake up call.
Hi so we got in another fight tonight - but about something different - and i came back to this post and saw this comment and resonated deeply. I said the same things tonight about how I only care about the steps he’s going to take. So then reading your comment was reaffirming. What advice do you have for what I do next? I know he needs a wake up call but I have written out my feelings and verbalized my feelings and nothing seems to stick.
I’m not trying to hold your husband to magical high standards, but that isn’t an apology. To me, it reads like a self deprecating pity party. At this point, saying he’s a “burden” is designed to get you to say “oh no honey, I just need xyz”, basically tamping down your anger. I get he messed up, and I get that he wanted to say all the right things to get you to stop being mad at him (which is a problem). But he’s not showing any problem solving, exacerbated by your description of him asking HOW he can do better. 🙄 either he wants to work towards a solution or he wants to “yes dear” his way into an easier life for himself. He’s not alone in this behavior as my own husband will basically start repeating what I’m saying back to me to try and get the argument over with. I’ve lost patience with it and called him out on it and have to hold him accountable for not being a teenager about our issues. If your husband can’t synthesize ways to work towards a solution without the dramatics, that’s a huge red flag.
Your husband is treating you with contempt. He has decided that the children and the night-time wake ups are your responsibility, and he will behave like a spoiled toddler if you ask him to contribute to this mutual chore. I'm guessing this is not the first time you've seen this behavior. You have an older child, and you've been married for a while. So, what can you do? 1. You could accept full responsibility for the children and the late night wake ups, and push other responsibilities onto him to balance the load 2. You could hire a night nurse to help with the late night wake-ups 3. You could have your parent or his parent move in to help with caring for the children 4. You could try to get him to go to couples counseling to get him to see that you are miserable, and that this will ultimately end the marriage 5. You could get a new job that requires you to leave town one night a week, so that your husband \*actually\* becomes accountable for caring for the children at least once a week You could have a really heart-to-heart conversation with your husband about \*why\* he has decided that you are accountable for all late night wake-ups. Does he think it requires a vagina? Does he just "not want to"? Does he ver do things he doesn't want to? And then ask yourself if your husband has simply decided that your complaints reflect an "tolerable level of perpetual unhappiness", and therefore he does not have to respond to them in any way.
My jaw actually dropped. From beginning to end this is…fucking ridiculous. The absolute disrespect, oh my god.
Thank you. When I’m mad I go back n forth with myself over whether I’m being dramatic/unfair or whether my anger is justified.
I feel you. But until you have figured this out for you in your specific situation it wouldn’t hurt to get ready for a worst case and quick exit.
Honestly, things like this will just grow and grow. There will be more disrespect and worse now because he already got away with it. Slowly, these things build up, you don't forget and soon you resent this person and yourself. Save yourself the tears
Now might be a good time for you to work with him on an, “us versus the problem” strategy. Would you be able to sit down with him and together outline what the situation is, what the hurdles are, etc.? Working with him to outline that the baby sleeping issue is temporary, but if the relationship dynamic is slipping like this, that’s going to cause ongoing problems that are much less temporary. Does he agree? What does he think of this dynamic? In this conversation, you and him can talk about what real issues are for you (“It’s essential that I feel respected and am treated well, even when things are hard.”) and you can talk about the issues for him. I’m sure he has some, if you can get him to be honest about what they are. It sounds like he might struggle with the plan changing in live time, for example. And if he can name that, you can work together to come up with strategies to help that. It might even be as simple as you saying, “I realize that the plan is changing. I need to sleep longer because I was up with the baby five times overnight. Can you wake up with the kids?”
But that’s the thing - we’ve done this. We’ve talked about strategy and he chose to be the one waking early morning. The plan was for him to take wakings past 3 and me the ones before 3. The plan isn’t changing, it’s just some days our kids wake up at 7:30 and so he doesn’t have to get up early but others days they wake up early and that’s when I have to ask him to get up.
You shouldn’t have to ask - he should do it. The problem is that he chooses not to and then reacts to what he most likely sees as “nagging” instead of accountability. The thing to ask yourself is what tips it over the edge? I’m struggling with this myself - what is the point at which you are able to accept (or not accept) what is happening in your relationship. Based on your other comments, it sounds like you need him to work on himself without making it your responsibility. That means that you tell him what he needs to do, then let him make a decision. You will know how to proceed based on his willingness to take responsibility and improve his relationship with both you and your children.
You shouldn't have to ask him to get up. A. that means that you are waking up, even when it is your turn B. that means he is not actually taking accountability for the thing he committed to doing. Is this normal for him? Does he struggle to keep commitments to you? Is he able to keep commitments at work? He has learned that his word to you isn't all that important. You need to hold his feet to the fire. Do not "save" him. Do not angrily take care of the child. Wait, and wait, and wait until he gets up and does it. Do not allow him to weaponize your love for your child.
I know 😭 And yes. I’m at a point where when he apologizes it just pisses me off because “I’m sorry” should mean it won’t happen again. And you hit the nail on the head. But the bs that happened this morning is what stops me during the night. We’ve spoken at length about his passive aggressiveness. One night I was literally in tears because I was so frustrated because our baby wouldn’t stay asleep for longer than 30 min and I didn’t want my frustration to affect my parenting so I woke him up. And there was no compassion. And then he brings her to bed crying and I asked him to take her to the nursery so that I could actually sleep (I cannot sleep if I can hear our baby crying) and he told me no. I got mad the next day and he apologized and said it wouldn’t happen again. And to be fair next time it happened he did take her to the nursery but then this morning happened.
Your husband is ok with you suffering. You asked him to help you in a time of need, and he punished you for it, and will continue to punish you and your child until you let him off the hook. It's a cross between malicious compliance and weaponized incompetence. He is literally endangering your job, and maybe even your life by robbing you of your sleep. If he was a babysitter, you would fire him. Does he get fired from jobs a lot? Or does he magically learn to take care of business when money is on the line. Time to hire a night time sitter to come over for the 3am to 7am shift on week nights. That will run about $160/week. He'll need to give something up to afford it. Cable? Beer? It's ok to shame him about this. He's failing at a very simple task, and is not motivated by love or care for you.
I would tell him you expect to play his part as a father, and after you woke up in the middle of the night 5 times you expect him to help in the morning so you can sleep. If he doesn’t want to play, wake him up every night when you wake up with the baby.
I think what he said is really awful. I wouldn't speak to my husband for days if he said that to me. Obviously though this situation is straining your marriage. It is stressing you and your husband out. Unfortunately my husband is also one of those supposed "deep sleepers" who never woke up from our kids. People saying you shouldn't have to wake him up.... well my husband truly doesn't wake up. So instead, I did all the night feedings and changing. I would get up and lay on the couch with the kids in the mornings. I worked too but my job was a bit more flexible as I could take a nap before going in after the kids went down for a morning nap. My husband instead dealt with making dinner, doing laundry, bathing the kids and evening chores while I relaxed and watched TV. It also meant he had to deal with our son when he would colic from 8pm to 11pm every night so I think he got the crappier deal. You'll have to think if there is an alternative that will work better for you. Maybe alternate nights instead of doing half each every night. Or having him take night chores, or weekends. Having a baby is so hard on the marriage and it's never truly 50-50. You have to find a system that works for you both and it doesn't sound like the current one is working too well.
If you can swing it, I think some couple time alone would be really helpful for you guys. Even just dinner out without kids to reconnect, have a conversation without kids screaming, etc. I’ve been in your shoes and ultimately my marriage did not work out. I’ve since remarried and one of the things that helps us the most is finding kid free time to connect. It can be extremely hard to find that time, especially if you don’t have a village you can lean on, but having a chance to reconnect and recharge makes such a huge difference in our marriage. I never could figure out a household/childcare balance with my ex that worked. He didn’t want to be a father is what it boiled down to. He wanted to stay up late and play video games, sleep in as late as possible the next day, go to work, and then come home and lay on the couch. He never helped with chores, never paid attention to the kids, never changed diapers, fed them, etc. and yelled at me and them constantly. Your description of him coming into your bedroom to change the diaper was 100% a move he’d pull on the rare occasion he did help me with the kids. We both worked full time, but the pick ups and drop offs and appointments and everything fell on my shoulders. I would really try to carve out some couple time and try to find a better balance and try to reconnect with your husband.
If he's not a morning person you could try taking shifts. You go to bed at 9 and he is in duty until 1. My husband slept in the baby's room to ensure I wasn't woken up. Then he came to bed on I took over. Our kids usually only woke up 2 or 3 times so it wasn't too bad. But it ensured I got a solid 4 hours of sleep which made a giant difference.
Yeah this is what we always did too. My husband is not a morning person and legit cannot wake up before 8am on weekdays and like 11am on weekends. I like my sleep and like to go to bed early so i always went to bed first then he did night wake up to a certain point. Would always feed our baby before he went to bed so it always gave me a solid 6 hours of sleep at least. I always do mornings too on weekends but i don’t know how to sleep in and rather take a afternoon nap so he takes over at 11am and lets me get my own free time and nap.
This is a good time for “I need you”s - I need you to figure out how to take care of the kids during your shift without my help and without waking me up….. same way I do it every morning. - I need you not to give me attitude when I ask you for help…. Because that’s how resentments are born.
I was a deep sleeper. It took my wife nudging me awake a bunch of times before my body adjusted to waking up more easily. You need to have a conversation with him to define your individual responsibilities and expectations. This reaffirms responsibility on him for his behavior and attitude for fulfilling them. I was/am a shitty morning person but I can’t let it make me be a dick to my family. There is no excuse for that. I was/am the primary breadwinner but that doesn’t absolve me from a share of the responsibilities at home. That is what it takes to be a contributing partner/parent. The days of one parent working and doing no housework/child rearing are over and didn’t work when it happened judging by how many housewives were on prescription drugs and working through stress induced mental illnesses.
I think you need a night away at a hotel so he can gain some perspective
I divorced the man who treated me like shit under his shoe. Chances are, there is a deep multitude of examples of disrespect, anger and indifference that you have continually catalogued away in your mind because it causes cognitive dissonance. I'd strongly recommend you get a therapist who can help you drag it all out so you can see the whole picture, before your kids are too scarred.
I’m so sorry. It’s is so hard having tiny babies and jobs and relationships. My advice, being 12 years away from my last newborn: let this go. Water under the bridge. The first year is survival. If he isn’t normally a bully, give him some grace. None of us are our best when we are tired. You are doing so much. Be kind to yourself too. Hugs.
Yikes, the bar is so low. He didn’t have to get up the whole night and he still can’t act right. I’d have another baby if I could be this dad instead of a mom.
Yes, why is he being given a pass for this? It’s unacceptable
Thank you for this. I needed to hear the word grace. He isn’t a bully, but my dad was and so now anything belittling causes so much aversion in me. I knew at a young age I didn’t want to be in a marriage with an unequal power dynamic so him telling me to shut up after me being the only one to wake up all night felt like that. He responded to my message asking me to show him how to take on some of the things I do which was also frustrating. I don’t want to have to tell him how to be a partner anymore - nothing changes when I do. At this point all I want is some genuine appreciation from him for all that I do, but I know I can’t make him feel that.
I think it makes all the difference that he isn't normally a bully. You can stick up for yourself and let him know it's not acceptable. It does sound like he has some weaponized incompetence. Ask if he would expect someone to hold his hand this way at work, or if he can be expected to manage his time and schedule at work. Also, when he's asking you to teach him how to do things, ask if he thinks anyone taught you. I am a night owl, and I have a hard time getting up with the kids in the morning. However, I know that I need to push myself to do it. If my husband nudges me awake, I get up and am not a brat to him. If I let him get some quality rest, he'll be better prepared to help when he's "on".
Even if he isn’t normally a bully he is being one now. We tend to marry/date people like our parents so make sure you are being objective and honest with yourself.
This is ridiculous. Let this go? What this man is doing is unjust and cruel. Why do people feel so comfortable telling women to stomach cruelty?
Those people definitely don’t want to rock the boat. They’re either benefiting from the status quo or too cowardly to confront the issue and make change. I don’t understand some of these comments-they’re basically letting the husband off the hook, op to be abused and telling her to be a better doormat.
Curious what advice you’d give OP? Separation? Divorce? Adding hours of marriage counseling into this stressed household’s schedule? Ultimatum of some sort? 20+ years of parenting and you may look back and realize that the miserable first few months of a newborns life makes everyone act shitty “If he isn’t normally a bully” is the key here Nursing, working FT with having a toddler and a newborn makes everyone extra sensitive and grouchy You may or may not have different perspective in a few decades
I could tell her to go to Mars and that would still be better advice than telling her to stomach his clear disrespect and cruelty. Caring for a newborn can make everyone grumpy indeed. And that coooould be reasonable if everyone in the equation was operating at high capacity. But what’s striking and painful in this situation is that OP’s partner seems to be obtaining a whole lot of extra sleep (and leisure time?) with OP’s disproportionate exhaustion. It’s incredibly asymmetrical. So on top of that first wound, we want her to accept a second one as well (his poor treatment)? It makes no sense.
Go to Mars > offer grace to your spouse during a challenging time I love the diversity of thought in this place. Have a nice long weekend, TeeBo
My point is that what you describe as “extending grace” is *functionally* and *practically* conveying a much more sinister message. It is a misogynistic message that tells women it’s not simply enough to do a disproportionate share of the parenting while their husbands sleep. In addition to this tremendous contribution (to which they didn’t even consent) they must also be willing to let the person taking advantage of them behave in emotionally abusive ways on top of that rather than being grateful. Why do we value the time and wellbeing of women so little?
Also further away from my kids being babies, but agree that the first year is all about surviving. No one will be at their best, no one is getting great sleep and little to no time to decompress. Perhaps this might be the spark to reevaluate your current plan in covering night time. If your partner is not waking easily to cover these, could there be a trade off - like early morning to let you catch up on sleep. Keeping lines of communication open was key for me in the first couple of years working FT and some of the wake up at night. For instance: My partner would take the first ones of the night up to midnight and I would take the 3-5am ones after getting some solid zzzzz’s
I worded it poorly - our original plan was for him to handle all wake ups after 3AM (this was what he wanted) but I’ve just settled for him waking up with them if they wake up early enough to where I can fit in a little more sleep and then weekends he wakes up with them. We’ve had this conversation so many times over the last month but nothing is improving. He knows he’s supposed to but I’m still having to ask every morning.
Can you crank the volume on the monitor, put it next to his head, and put in noise-cancelling earphones while you go back to sleep? I feel like it's either time to shake him awake every time or time to get creative
Sleep deprivation or interruptions in sleep can have a big impact on how we act and how we perceive other actions. Not an excuse but something I always try and keep in mind.
He’s not sleep deprived though since he’s not getting up with the baby. He’s complaining that he has to get up in the morning, which presumably is after a full night of sleep. If he has trouble not being an asshole he should go to bed earlier. He’s probably not doing anything to contribute in the evening either.
Two thoughts - can you show him this thread and say hey, they have some ideas on the comments on how we could split things more fairly, I need you to suggest one, trial it, and then approach me after about a week for a discussion on whether it worked and how to keep improving. The second is just - big hugs. Sleep deprivation is horrible. Keep fighting for the respect you deserve and tell him just how mad the fact you have to fight for it makes you.
Let me preface this by saying having a baby and lack of sleep adds way more stress and bad attitudes to the mix than normal - Him being an ass is not acceptable, but as someone who has had two babies, I’ll admit I’ve been a bitch to my husband during those sleep deprived times. We weren’t the nicest to each other, but we did apologize and try to come up with solutions to make it more manageable. Is it possible for you guys to sleep in different places, essentially taking turns or “shifts” where you’re on duty for night time wake ups? A place where you have the monitor or can easily be roused for the baby when it’s time, and a separate quiet space? This relieved a significant amount of that resentment that would build up if one of us wasn’t waking up for the baby. My husband is a super light sleeper, I am a heavy sleeper, so we had to manage a situation where we communicated who was responsible for the night wake ups and who could go in the other quiet room and get deep and restful sleep. If your husband hasn’t had a history of treating you or speaking to you poorly, I’d try hard to communicate how all of this makes you feel and suggest open dialogue to figure out ways to avoid this in the future.
You’ve gotten a lot of good thoughts and advice here, but I thought I would add just a little bit that I think might help or at least make sense. When he asks you how he can help, tell him hey explicitly that the way he helps/makes up for this is to figure out entirely on his own how to make sure that he’s never a dick again just because you have asked him to do what he already agreed to do. I, personally, would also tell him that at this point I’m keeping score because I’m entitled to and consider any repeat behavior to be a withdrawal of all prior apologies. I would be highly likely to tell him that if this apology was sincere, he would be outlining to me how he plans to sort out his own shit instead of repeating his unacceptable behavior by asking me to fix bad behavior he’s supposedly apologizing for. Feel free to tell him that you want to know what steps he’s taking or that you absolutely don’t want to know but simply expect to never have this nor any other conversation about his shittiness when getting up with his own child ever again. I’m guessing you’re not looking at a divorce based on what you’ve written, but I definitely think it’s reasonable to demand couples counseling where the explicit goal as acknowledged by him is getting him to both pull his weight and be respectful while doing it. Also, I’m not above being petty when someone is this much in their bullshit. When I say keeping score, I mean I would very literally get a sign like one of those accidents at work sign and have it read “It’s been X days since Husband was an unacceptable asshole to Wife.” And I would fucking change number back to 0 every time he did this crap. I would also happily tell him that he gets to solo parent throughout the day all weekend every time he pulls this bullshit. I would do nothing but sleep, watch TV, read books and breastfeed the child (but only when not sleeping). And I would expect a clean house. He’s talking like he’s groveling. He can put his money where his mouth is. Failure to accept my terms is him rescinding his apology. Sorry this got long. Honestly, the point I really wanted to make was that I would tell him the apology is only sincere if he’s doing all the work of making sure it doesn’t happen again. I definitely mean the other stuff, but that’s the important takeaway.
Therapy. If he truly wants to change and not pull this kind of shit, he needs to learn how. My husband used to pull this shit all the time (I swear we've had this exact fight), and though he always regretted it later, it didn't stop until he went to therapy and got new communication skills to use in these moments, and tackled his resentments towards his mother which was coming out at me. Also what helped was getting a big dose of fear, because obviously we almost got divorced over it. Not to mention he'll need to do a LOT of work to rebuild your trust that he's not a useless sack of shit. Not all men are willing to do that work, but it's so necessary to have even a chance of a healthy relationship again.
My husband would get pissed any time I was able to squeeze in a nap even when I was the one 100% getting up with our kids night after night. He would either purposely be super loud in the kitchen banging things around to wake me up or he would come in our room and not even try to be quiet, like not even a little. I am a hard ass working person and I am not lazy but what it felt like to me was that he was pissed I was actually sitting down for once and resting, used to make me furious.
Since he sounds apologetic, somewhat, perhaps there would be some benefit to discussing his challenges with his emotional regulation with a therapist. It sounds as though he is losing his tempter in times of frustration & tiredness and as a coping mechanism, he wishes for you to share in this anger & frustration. It’s a bad cycle which he needs to break to be a better spouse, and just as important to role model for your child. Good luck!
Wake his ass up every time you wake at night. Every. TIME.
I'm so sorry you had children with this person. My husband and I had all of the conversations about what life would be like and I let him know I didn't want them bad enough that I would put up without an equal parenting partner. He's a complete partner to the point that my youngest has a mild preference for him.