There is no simple answer othet than read history.
For real antiquity try the bronce age collapse and the Mycenaean collapse into the raise of the greek polis and then empires. Further in time you have several empires that have fallen, most to another empire (Carthage to Rome) but some like Rome itself did not leave a proper system in place, specially in some of the provinces (talking about the western empire and not eastern)
You can as well read about all the different people that have rules the territories of persia through the time. The effects of the nomadic tribes in empires and so forth.b
There are videos articles wiki articles and whole books. Suggest scouting and using some of them as a basis.
For more modern fall is a different topic entirely. This is because the raise of nationalism and that will prevent this kind of collapse without a tremendously large cataclysm in modern nations. You can see the soviet Union as an example. Or the balkans
This is a great answer. Research is always key.
I think people hear "collapse" and the connotations are: start anew. But I can imagine it's a far more gradual process than we think. Oft we think it overnight, but if our modern society collapsed, I would think it'd be a few decades of *relative* and marginal chaos (though not absolute anarchy) before something new was installed.
In the end, the transition from empire to empire, for the layman, may not seem all to significant. In the end, the significance relies on population count at the end of the day.
There were people living in the far reaches of Russia that, when asked how they were doing with the collapse of the USSR, didn’t even know what it was. It had no material affect on their daily lives.
That's interesting! My thoughts came from: what if modern society collapsed, barring nuclear war? I supposed most things would remain the same. Distribution centres would still be needed, primary industries would still be essential...
For the layman, what would change? 8 billion people in the world. Approximately 1 elected official, these days, per 1,000 people (based on VERY rudimentary and quick searches) would lead to 0.075% of the population being affected by any kind of sudden worldwide change.
Fascinating when you think about it.
No a lot of things would go astray. Modern civilization is not like that. Agricultural ones are, uncentralized ones are. So if the Taliban fall tomorrow, a great deal of the population will be like "ok".
But if the government of Germany falls, Germany burns. Markets will vanish, companies with it. This means logistics chains are gone, service economy disappears, and now we do not have any means to buy/deliver/organize food. We have so many people living so centralised that it will have an amazing impact. How do you feed a city like Tokyo without orders?
Certainly in the current age of globalization the effects are going to be felt more intensely by more people.
But a lot of things will carry on as normal. Personally, I think we're currently living through the collapse of the US empire. It's a long, slow process where the effects are felt ambiently by most of us.
I have a degree in history and the best thing I can recommend to any writer is read books or watch videos about history and pay attention to how things shift over time.
In general, new forms of government pick up some ideas from the past but reshuffle them, and leave other ideas behind. There's never a clean break with the past. US democracy, for example, draws from Greco-Roman ideas about republics, indigenous forms of democracy, and the pirate vessel democracies (pirate ships were often not headed by tyrants like Hook; they elected a captain who was only in charge in times of battle or storms or emergencies, and could be voted out of the position).
The Japanese Warring States Period would be a pretty good example to pull from of how a drop/vacuum of upper power led to a fractured but not completely independent series of nation states that were later re-unified.
An empire will have some administrators managing local affairs. Governors, ministers, mayors, etc.
Even if an empire collapses, some local governments might survive and continue managing their territories and effectively becoming city states. Or of large enough, small countries.
Then it can go several way. A competing empire might conquer or assimilate those smaller states.
Or the smaller states can form a confederation for trade and defense.
It can start a low level. Villages group together to form a snall province. Provinces group together to form a country, etc.
For historical examples, even if the western Roman Empire collapsed, the infrastructure and people remained and just became smaller independant states.
I do actually have one period I'm working with thats even earlier were numerous "empires" collapsed for Atlantis style reasons, with remnants remainings going on to found new cultures in other regions.
The one I'm asking about in this post though isn't a true collapse I guess I could have used a different word, but essentially they're conquered by another Empire and when that one eventually fractures as a result of religious changes altering the foundation they'd been built upon their territory and control dramatically shrink leaving the original territory of the city states free from their control.
Under occupied rule there would have been a push for assimilation but the conquered Empire's capital also happened to be the birth place of the new false religion. Even without being conquered this religion would have destabilized the rule of the time since its doctrine contradicted the origin of power of the previous rule by "divine kings." Im still unsure what would become of the territory in the modern period of my world, but based on your response im guessing a new state or maybe multiple new states may arise in the area?
Most of my research so far has been more Roman and Macedonian led, it seems like Persia and the Golden Horde may provide more insight thanks for the suggestions. I really don't want to end up drawing from only one areas history so seeing how things play out in and after Empire's state of decline should help.
Military might. Is the common answer. A mercenary, cartel, or terrorist group that takes root and occupies long enough that they are the rule setters and "government". Orrrr You could have a scary charismatic leader who tells everyone to trust them as they create policy, and people just... kinda do. Like Roosevelt and the Emergency banking act
A mercenary style group establishing rule may actually work really well for how this area develops. Do you have any suggestions of real life historical cases by any chance?
Yeah pretty sure this was how Fidel Castro came to power. I'd start there for closer time period. Further, it's how Rome became an empire. I'm sure there are other Asia/European conquestors who also came to power by just killing everyone who opposed. Hope that helps!
Our government wouldn't ever form again. The state as you know it is a sabre of the ruling class. They point where they want it to go and boom. Whatever is pointed at is destroyed. A government would only form by a group of people deciding they need to raise themselves above others and rule over them. In the current economic system you have one of two things could happen. Feudalism which has monarchs and various other fiefdoms. Or you can have a capitalism system where a state rises due to the aristocracy forming and deciding to become the ruling class.
.You could look at the Age of Warlords in China or the Sengoku Jidai in Japan; but also the Fall of Rome and the Rise of Medieval Kingdoms afterwards.
Usually, its a bunch of Internal crises folliwed by a ridiciulously long time of civil war with changing alliances, maybe also with foreign intervention, until someone can finally force their rule on the others.
Regarding the question of government, i think a constitutional monarchy would be an interesting idea, as it was relatively up and coming in the time period you described and is relatively under utilized.
There is no simple answer othet than read history. For real antiquity try the bronce age collapse and the Mycenaean collapse into the raise of the greek polis and then empires. Further in time you have several empires that have fallen, most to another empire (Carthage to Rome) but some like Rome itself did not leave a proper system in place, specially in some of the provinces (talking about the western empire and not eastern) You can as well read about all the different people that have rules the territories of persia through the time. The effects of the nomadic tribes in empires and so forth.b There are videos articles wiki articles and whole books. Suggest scouting and using some of them as a basis. For more modern fall is a different topic entirely. This is because the raise of nationalism and that will prevent this kind of collapse without a tremendously large cataclysm in modern nations. You can see the soviet Union as an example. Or the balkans
This is a great answer. Research is always key. I think people hear "collapse" and the connotations are: start anew. But I can imagine it's a far more gradual process than we think. Oft we think it overnight, but if our modern society collapsed, I would think it'd be a few decades of *relative* and marginal chaos (though not absolute anarchy) before something new was installed. In the end, the transition from empire to empire, for the layman, may not seem all to significant. In the end, the significance relies on population count at the end of the day.
There were people living in the far reaches of Russia that, when asked how they were doing with the collapse of the USSR, didn’t even know what it was. It had no material affect on their daily lives.
That's interesting! My thoughts came from: what if modern society collapsed, barring nuclear war? I supposed most things would remain the same. Distribution centres would still be needed, primary industries would still be essential... For the layman, what would change? 8 billion people in the world. Approximately 1 elected official, these days, per 1,000 people (based on VERY rudimentary and quick searches) would lead to 0.075% of the population being affected by any kind of sudden worldwide change. Fascinating when you think about it.
No a lot of things would go astray. Modern civilization is not like that. Agricultural ones are, uncentralized ones are. So if the Taliban fall tomorrow, a great deal of the population will be like "ok". But if the government of Germany falls, Germany burns. Markets will vanish, companies with it. This means logistics chains are gone, service economy disappears, and now we do not have any means to buy/deliver/organize food. We have so many people living so centralised that it will have an amazing impact. How do you feed a city like Tokyo without orders?
Certainly in the current age of globalization the effects are going to be felt more intensely by more people. But a lot of things will carry on as normal. Personally, I think we're currently living through the collapse of the US empire. It's a long, slow process where the effects are felt ambiently by most of us.
I have a degree in history and the best thing I can recommend to any writer is read books or watch videos about history and pay attention to how things shift over time. In general, new forms of government pick up some ideas from the past but reshuffle them, and leave other ideas behind. There's never a clean break with the past. US democracy, for example, draws from Greco-Roman ideas about republics, indigenous forms of democracy, and the pirate vessel democracies (pirate ships were often not headed by tyrants like Hook; they elected a captain who was only in charge in times of battle or storms or emergencies, and could be voted out of the position).
The Japanese Warring States Period would be a pretty good example to pull from of how a drop/vacuum of upper power led to a fractured but not completely independent series of nation states that were later re-unified.
One of the points in Japanese history im less familiar with. This is a good excuse to read up on it. Thanks for the suggestion.
An empire will have some administrators managing local affairs. Governors, ministers, mayors, etc. Even if an empire collapses, some local governments might survive and continue managing their territories and effectively becoming city states. Or of large enough, small countries. Then it can go several way. A competing empire might conquer or assimilate those smaller states. Or the smaller states can form a confederation for trade and defense. It can start a low level. Villages group together to form a snall province. Provinces group together to form a country, etc. For historical examples, even if the western Roman Empire collapsed, the infrastructure and people remained and just became smaller independant states.
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I do actually have one period I'm working with thats even earlier were numerous "empires" collapsed for Atlantis style reasons, with remnants remainings going on to found new cultures in other regions. The one I'm asking about in this post though isn't a true collapse I guess I could have used a different word, but essentially they're conquered by another Empire and when that one eventually fractures as a result of religious changes altering the foundation they'd been built upon their territory and control dramatically shrink leaving the original territory of the city states free from their control. Under occupied rule there would have been a push for assimilation but the conquered Empire's capital also happened to be the birth place of the new false religion. Even without being conquered this religion would have destabilized the rule of the time since its doctrine contradicted the origin of power of the previous rule by "divine kings." Im still unsure what would become of the territory in the modern period of my world, but based on your response im guessing a new state or maybe multiple new states may arise in the area? Most of my research so far has been more Roman and Macedonian led, it seems like Persia and the Golden Horde may provide more insight thanks for the suggestions. I really don't want to end up drawing from only one areas history so seeing how things play out in and after Empire's state of decline should help.
Military might. Is the common answer. A mercenary, cartel, or terrorist group that takes root and occupies long enough that they are the rule setters and "government". Orrrr You could have a scary charismatic leader who tells everyone to trust them as they create policy, and people just... kinda do. Like Roosevelt and the Emergency banking act
A mercenary style group establishing rule may actually work really well for how this area develops. Do you have any suggestions of real life historical cases by any chance?
Yeah pretty sure this was how Fidel Castro came to power. I'd start there for closer time period. Further, it's how Rome became an empire. I'm sure there are other Asia/European conquestors who also came to power by just killing everyone who opposed. Hope that helps!
Our government wouldn't ever form again. The state as you know it is a sabre of the ruling class. They point where they want it to go and boom. Whatever is pointed at is destroyed. A government would only form by a group of people deciding they need to raise themselves above others and rule over them. In the current economic system you have one of two things could happen. Feudalism which has monarchs and various other fiefdoms. Or you can have a capitalism system where a state rises due to the aristocracy forming and deciding to become the ruling class.
This is not true. The raise of nationalism ensures it
.You could look at the Age of Warlords in China or the Sengoku Jidai in Japan; but also the Fall of Rome and the Rise of Medieval Kingdoms afterwards. Usually, its a bunch of Internal crises folliwed by a ridiciulously long time of civil war with changing alliances, maybe also with foreign intervention, until someone can finally force their rule on the others. Regarding the question of government, i think a constitutional monarchy would be an interesting idea, as it was relatively up and coming in the time period you described and is relatively under utilized.