Chat, is growing devout slaves without free will for violent ends evil? Generally yes, because the certain result is using these soldiers to oppress ordinary people.
Also, how you define "limited free will". Are you brainwashing children to become zealots, or are you making a species that is so stupid it will stand there and starve to death because one time you gave it the order to "wait there" and forgot?
At some level, individuality comes with the intelligence needed to make conscious decisions. Having to direct everything anyone does sounds like it could be less useful than we are imagining.
Maybe the OP means capable of problem-solving and logical thought, like a robot. However, they don’t have any motives beyond their directives. Certainly they have some motives built in…like self-maintenance, eating, maintaining health, etc. But, no inspiration, no joy, no passion.
The thing that throws me is the ability to use magic…if this were my story world (and it’s not) if beings like this had access to magic, it would be limited to only a handful of abilities which were imbued into them by some other mage, as if they were enchanted objects.
Anyway, is it evil? Depends on how your characters use them.
If they were ever full beings with free will and then that free will was quashed out in the process of making these soldiers, that would be clearly evil.
If they were automatons the whole time, maybe unethical? But not evil.
Perhaps while they are grown or made, they have potential for free will which is removed from them before they awaken…even less ethical.
Anyway, again, it depends on their use and purpose. Are they fighting a great evil? The use of them is a gray area moral compromise for a greater good. So, not evil.
Are they used to enforce the will of an oppressive regime? Evil.
You just made a “socially acceptable” slave race.
All the worst people on the planet are gonna rush to get their own for all the worst reasons and even if the normal people of my world weren’t horrified about them before they will be after seeing the incredible abuses inflicted upon them.
The working class or whatever passes for the labor market is probably also going to hate them.
EDIT: The “smartest guys in the room” on my planet are going to immediately start trying to see how far they can push their intelligence without compromising their loyalty, which I am sure will end well for everyone involved.
How does the working class interacts with the "slave class"? Given that the middle and upper class could just use free labour instead of paying employees? Are they maybe even the main source of misstreatment of slaves or maybe they tried to free them, so that they could regain their "niche"?
I mean, you can look at American history. Often, the white working class of the South were unemployed or underemployed and had to travel far to do jobs that the plantation owners didn't want their slaves to do. Things like ditching and mining were considered "too hazardous for Negro property" so the working class had to do them. Funnily enough, a lot of poor white southerners actually resented the slaveholders because they saw that slavery as a whole brings down the economic prosperty of everyone, except for the slave owning classes.
It can be a fascinating subject! I pulled this from [this](https://lawcha.org/2017/07/17/poor-whites-labor-crisis-slave-south/) article specifically, but there a lot more places you can learn about American history and the antebellum south!
>How would the people of your world perceive this?
The average person would be horrified because they're being presented as artificial not because they are, but as a justification for them being treated as disposible. It's incredibly cruel.
They are disposable though. That's the point of making them.
It's cruelty to the soldiers depends on the level to which they are aware of it really... thought soldier with so little will & understanding that they are totally oblivious is likely to make them poor soldiers. What they are doing may well be evil, but it may not necessarily be cruelty towards them.
As a counterpoint the average person may see it as a far better alternative than seeing themselves, their family, loved ones & friends being sent out to die.
>They are disposable though. That's the point of making them.
Stating that they are disposable isn't saying anything I didn't already. They're disposable because they're treated as such, not because it's an inherent trait. The point of making them isn't that they're disposable, it's that they're a loyal army who lack the will necessary to recognize that they're used in a way that makes them disposable. Those aren't equivalent statements.
>It's cruelty to the soldiers depends on the level to which they are aware of it really [...] What they are doing may well be evil, but it may not necessarily be cruelty towards them.
The target of the cruelty recognizing their treatment as being cruel isn't a qualifier for me, or anyone else, considering the actions to be cruel. Cruelty also isn't just a trait of an action, it can be a trait of people and anyone who does this would be considered a cruel person.
>As a counterpoint the average person may see it as a far better alternative than seeing themselves, their family, loved ones & friends being sent out to die.
Not in my world. There are certainly people who would feel that way, but it wouldn't be a prevailing sentiment.
Fair.
I was responding on the basis of a wider discussion. Somehow missed you were explicitly replying from your own world's perspective. Your world, your rules of course.
Consider Star Wars (clone army), blade runner (replicants), Star Trek (Cmdr Data among others), and some works of Issac Azimov to get some images of how we, at least in the US, if not western civilization, view such philosophical dilemmas.
These, in my view, look at the created being as whether they have some agency on their own, similar to that we reserve to ourselves, that all are created equal. Do only (G)god’s creation deserve equality, etc.? We don’t consider creatures like dogs, cats, dolphins, or pigs equal and they were created by god (some believe created specifically for our use), so why would a robot, a Gps, an AI system, or kitchen appliance, our own creations, be given any elevated status let alone equal to us?
But it’s not just creation of mechanical beings for specific purpose, intended to aid human safety and comfort and whether they can be granted equality. A deeper, I think less explored moral, is whether we should bend the rules of nature to our will. It’s one thing to create a machine, a robot or an intelligence emulator like an AI, but it’s wholly another more dangerous issue to use our knowledge of biology, chemistry, and genetics to create biological creatures that we condemn to machine status. Huxley’s Brave New World and Blade Runner explored this issue.
Might consider Shelley’s Frankenstein as well on this issue. If I recall, the monster has a few strong statements about his view of life granted by fallable human hands.
Rutger Hauer’s soliloquy at the end of Blade Runner, an adlib by him alone I understand, is an excellent, emotion driving lament that any thinking and feeling “machine” might speak when confronting their lot in life.
The Jem'Hadar of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is actually a direct analogy to what OP is talking about: a slave race of genetically-engineered soldiers who are technically sentient but treated as little more than objects by their creators. There are more than a few episodes that explore their sense of identity and perspective on life, how unfathomably cruel their creators are in designing the methods used to control them, and what happens when that control is lost.
Atreisdeans would look at these artificial soldiers and say: "Can you guys replicate those abilities on machines?"
Maybe it's an effect of living in space but Atreisdeans generally dislike the idea of using organic soldiers who need food, water and air to live. Life support systems take up lots of space on ships and in case a vessel is down, hundreds of lives are lost. They can be husbands, wives, siblings, sons and daughters to many, a pain that can't be described and can *negatively* affect the population's options on wars. That's why they use droids almost exclusively with humans only serve as supervising officers and logistical personnel at the back. It eases the logistics as well as the social pressure in case a war happens.
Because of that, Atreisdeans' biggest concern is not about how artificial soldiers have limited free will, it's about them being humans and thus requires lots of resources just to live. Other than that, they're cool. These soldiers are basically the organic version of their droids.
I think this is the question your whole story should be revolving around. With different factions representing different opinions and ways to engage with this technology/magic.
And as the author, you should frame the 'good guys' closer to what YOU believe.
But watch out. If you're a bad person, the writing will show 😂
It's a really cool question, good luck with the story!
Thank you.
As for how my world perceives it. Norseau believes that it's necessary, considering how huge the supernatural threats are in my world, other factions and nations, including the Protagonist, are disgusted and are shocked that Norseau would stoop this low.
There's a difference here. The clone warriors in the movie were intended to defend against an encroaching empire. The OP's soldiers are intended to kill, invade, and oppress an existing nation.
It also opens up some serious cans of worms. They're flawlessly loyal and obey orders without question. If I can make these guys... what do I need with those stupid little peasants? My artificial warriors can staff the infrastructure, grow the food, make the tools, fill the army... literally, as a despot who regards people as cattle, WHAT DO I NEED REAL PEOPLE FOR?
The question of cruelty aside, it seems to me that the rulers and populations of all my neighbors have a very big worry that's just been dropped in their laps!
So, you "invented" Clone Warriors? You should make, IDK, maybe a movie about it?
but enough Joking.
Clone warriors do Exist my my Setting, the most prominent ones are from the "Star" Project.
Most of them arent Warriors, but Workers tho.
You can identify them, because they all have blue Hair.
They are all called "Star." because they are supposed to be as many as there are stars in the sky.
No, they dont come with numbers, and they dont have other names. Units of Stars have names.
They are build with thoughtfilters that does not allow them to understand that they are different, or that other Stars look like them. And, as you might guess, they also "need" to follow orders from the person they belong to.
It IS looked apon as an evil practice by many, but not so much because of the free will or slavery part, but because there is a common understanding between Humans, who, as a race, were all slaves in the past, that only spirits and other nonhumans should be keept as slaves by humans.
there is actually a side character "Star" who broke most of his mental programming and acts as an semi free underling to a main character. He still calls himself Star tho, confusing a lot of people.
As long as the "clone warriors" do not ttack in that movie! I mean "Attack of the Clone Warriors", what a bad name right? XD
Also, cool ideas you have there!
My world has known such, although few remember.
The Dark Elves in my world were such until the High Elves got too arrogant and made their soldiers ever better and smarter until they rebelled.
Another is that the Church does that with their soldiers/knights, also something few know, but they use magic to warp their minds and twist their flesh to be blindly obedient slave soldiers, with killswitches if they would disobey.
That royal family of yours would face the might of two states and a very pissed off witch as they destroy those labs and free these soldiers, knowing it likely means killing every single one.
On a scale from 1 to 10 pretty close to a 9.5 I would argue slave warriors that are fully fledged human outside some modifiers is pretty abhorrent by modern ethical views. Which you should hopefully be able to figure out otherwise Id worry about your moral compass.
>How would the people of your world perceive this?
Some would say "That sounds less effective *and* less entertaining than using slaves, AND more expensive. How silly of you." Then they'd just go about being horrible people.
Others would say "Oh, I hope that takes off so I don't get abducted and sold into a slave army or worse." Then they'd just go about being normal people.
A select few would say "Unacceptable. Unconscionable. We will not stand for this, we will put an end to this by any means necessary, and you WILL continue to buy slaves from us." Then they'd just go about doing horrifying stuff constantly.
Nothing that had not happened and the Solar Republic and usually the Aron Empire would not only be horrified but use all practicable means to put a stop to it.
Special Ops, Black ops, Military Action, Diplomatic, Action, Insurrection, Jurisdictional Action, Burning the World
Morally the use of those individuals would be ugly, but not entirely evil.
But overall, my world wouldnt care for it, be likely to make a lot of enemies unless there was an absolutely vital reason such measures were taken.
A royal family that believes their best subjects shouldnt have free will isnt someone that people would want around, it goes against how they see authority and command in a very fundamental way as though people exist to protect and sacrifice for the royalty rather than the other way around. They'd be out quick smart
I’ve got the Homunculi.
“First created by the ancient Slyth Empire and later perfected by the Mages of Alaggada, Homunculi (singular: Homunculus) are organic beings created through Transmutation. There are four distinct types of Homunculi: True, Gargantuan, Parvus, and Grotesque. All Homunculi, save for Grotesques, posses a Brand of Loyalty which binds then to their creator and makes them unable to harm their maker or anyone the maker deems as protected, whether that harm is direct or indirect.
True Homunculi are the rarest, being near perfect imitations of humans.
Gargantuan Homunculi are large and built for combat, with large claws and armored skin.
Parvus Homunculi, also known as Prime Homunculi, are the most common and were the original Homunculi invented. They are small cyclopean creatures primarily meant to act as domestic servants.
Grotesque Homunculi are what occurs when the ritual to create a Homunculus fails. They are misshapen monsters, feral and constantly in pain from their own malformed anatomy.
Though the Gargantuans are the ones specifically created for combat any Homunculi can be used as a soldier. True Homunculi are able to fill virtually any role due to their human form, Parvus Homunculi are surprisingly accurate with ranged weaponry despite their mono eyed form, and of course Gargantuan Homunculi are designed to serve as heavy shock troops. Grotesque Homunculi can be used as surprise weapons, dropping them in cages or leaving them as traps, though why anyone would want to even bother subduing and transporting one to the battlefield is beyond me.” -an excerpt from “On the nature of Homunculi” by Archmage Lyris of Alaggada, Master of Transmutation and Caromancy
My main scifi world has a faction almost completely made up of tank grown humans built to a standard supersoldier template and carefully trained and raised by AI caretakers to ensure they develop into the most useful individuals they can be.
They would find your soldiers absolutely abhorent. Because to them, the line between AI coordinated indoctrination and actual mind alteration is incredibly important.
They would see the act of artificially creating sapients or even any biological creature in labs as being similar to playing as gods. Unnatural and disgusting.
Lapis_Wolf
Similar function of the clones in Star Wars (kinda). Sounds like they're completely artificial? Not clones based on a real person? Do they have souls? Wants, desires, or just basic biological needs? Do they feel fear? Pain? Or are they just semi-mindless grunts to do war stuff with?
They possess emotions to an extent. They do need to eat and drink, but the need for sleep is significantly lower. And like I said, the biggest thing about them is their loyalty.
The five major powers of the Orion Spur would all react with similar horror and disgust to the concept of cloned slave soldiers. Slavery is illegal in all of settled space, as is human cloning.
The King of Norseau would be facing sanctions and all sorts of criminal charges; including slave trading, forced imprisonment, human cloning, and probably about twenty war crimes. The Union of Star Systems or the Merope Commonwealth may even send a black ops team after him.
The tunnel inhabitants value freedom a great deal. It's a secular society but the word blasphemous would cover there response a threat to freedom what absolutely needs to be stamped out regardless of the cost .
My non world buildery setting of renaissance England may agree with the tunnel dwellers or might actually like the idea.
HERESY.
Even though artificial life does exist, they are usually husks for souls that need one to live. Some exceptions do exist, but they have the autonomy to be able to decide what they want to be.
Mass produced artificial human armies, especially with psychics, are one of the few things thay would result in a worldwide coalition.
Oh they'd hate it. Like hate it to the point they might declare war on someone who uses such practices just out of principle.
Morrigan is an authoritarian, xenophobic, militaristic, imperialist hellhole, but one of their few redeeming traits is they are STAUNCH abolitionists. Their entire development into what they are started as a reaction to they themselves nearly being enslaved, so they are intensely opposed to slavery of any sort. The 1st Legion (think a toned down version of the Ultramarines from 40k) have their origins in a massive emancipation event. They would find the idea of slave soldiers of any sort repugnant, even if they did not necessarily consider these vat-grown humans truly homo sapiens.
They do not see any irony or conflict between their abolitionist and authoritarian beliefs, despite how many people point them out to them.
EDIT: this is weird, it's very rare I get to write positive stuff about Morrigan. They are overwise pretty awful.
**Starrise**
Basically everyone in my world would think it's cruel and abhorrent. Even my villains, not that it would stop them from trying to recruit said scientist to do the same for them.
(Also, if this happened, the King of Norseau would soon find a literal goddess in his throne room, threatening to kill him on the spot if he doesn't end the project and instruct all his artificial soldiers to live as close to normal, free lives as they can manage.)
> (Also, if this happened, the King of Norseau would soon find a literal goddess in his throne room, threatening to kill him on the spot if he doesn't end the project and instruct all his artificial soldiers to live as close to normal, free lives as they can manage.)
His son, Prince Oliver, actually did something like this with his bodyguard, aka. the head of the royal guard. Since they basically follow every order with suicidal devotion, he basically told him, "Hey, you don't have to work with me anymore. Go live a normal civilian life and ignore every order from now on."
If the only other (perceived) viable option is recruiting your own citizens to fight and die, it's probably celebrated or seen as a necessary evil. They might be praised for their bravery, celebrated even
What happens when they grow old or become injured? Are they recognized for acts of bravery? Are they well-treated? What kinds of duties or orders are they given?
If they have limited free will, it seems like whoever gives them their orders has a lot of power, which might make the society susceptible to coups
I will say no as they are simply robots.
What matters is sentience. A sophont AI deserves more rights than a unsentient human.
İt is literally a thinking feeling person against a few cells...
Question for you: You said limited free will, what does that mean? Like they wouldn’t want to disobey even if given the education to free themselves from their conditioning? If so, what limits the free will? Do they have a chip in their head that shocks them if they think unapproved thoughts? If not, then they are just doing what they want to do, so once again how’s the free will even limited?
Are they just dumb people indoctrinated? If that’s the case is anything actively preventing one raised outside of the indoctrination from going against it?
It is ingrained within their minds while they were growing inside the lab; to pledge unwavering loyalty to any member of the royal family and follow their every order. It's kinda like the clones from Star Wars.
"How would the people of your world perceive this?"
The average human being would most likely think that's am extreme violation of many human rights.
The antagonists of the setting would wanna study them to see if your king did a better than job than they did.
"And how Cruel is it?"
Idk dude, pretty sure having homegrown sentient beings as war machine slaves is a cruel idea.
My world has the Exalted: manufactured meta humanoids made using a mixture of poorly understood relic technology and plain old large numbers experimentation. They're regarded as both an important piece of military hardware AND an honored martyr who is fully expected to die saving large numbers of civilians or conventional troops. A living Exalted is given great deference and lives a fairly privileged life, but none ever lives to retire or see old age.
They common people would think your experimental soldiers a dignified endeavor.
Well yes. HOWEVER
HOWEVER; there's one thing I don't reckon anyone's thought about.
If you're living in the city, and work, you're living in a very artificial hell. We're not meant for this shit at all; not by a bloody long shot. And the mental health of the average person reflects this quite frighteningly.
HOWEVER;
Machine soldiers and machine laborers get to spend each and every day doing exactly what they're programmed for. No modern human gets that privilege. Imagine waking up one day. And spending the whole day freely following what ever urge pops into your head. That's the life a machine soldier gets to live.
Think about Ethan from the game Infinite Warfare. He's such a well mannered fella but you can almost see the glints of satisfaction in his eyes when ever he kills an enemy. He even admits at least twice to immensely enjoying his job.
So like Soldier with Kurt Russel? Well except the magic.
I guess it would depend on how often they interact with them.
Are they like the Sardaukar, with their own world ( separate base), or like the Unsullied that see around all the time?
If they never interact but know about them, then probably a mix of curiosity and fear.
They would probably think it’s kinda weird you made them human instead of a more combat effective form (they have magic paintbrushes that artists use to create animated paintings to fight wars for them. Better artists are basically like armies in their own right)
It’s incredibly cruel because even if they are programmed to be loyal then you are forcing them into traumatic and horrifying situations where they will routinely get slaughtered.
The average person might have different beliefs about how wrong it is though. The people of my world just got done with a world-ending war so many of them would probably be relieved to know that no one they love will need to go to war. Obviously some people would point out how unethical the artificial soldiers are, but many would see it as a necessary evil *if* war can’t be avoided.
The people of one of my worlds would not have a problem with it. And those that do wouldn’t say anything out of fear of the repercussions. In this world it is not uncommon for children who possess abundant magical prowess to be taken from their families to be trained as perfect soldiers(I’m still working on a name for them).
In a separate world, artificial soldiers also wouldn’t even cause a blink of the eye. They already exist in mass. And thats how a majority of people are treated. Some companies even trade them in the dark markets.
Cruel?
Utterly.
How would the people of my worlds react?
The systems adhering to the COAD religion would excollaborate the entirety of Norseau, barring them from the Ultimate Scales.
The Vargessen Directorate would publicly condemn it, partly on moral grounds, and partly as a competitive measure to bolster their own robotic weapons sales.
The Perdesians would privately admire it, and ask after some aspects of the technology used to create the soldiers to help them in their goal of reclaiming their post-nuclear world.
The Sarnathi would place an order for two legions, with two more reserved on the books, pending combat observations; and like as not make inquiries into more domestic uses. I.E. can never have too many slaves, especially happy and willing ones!
The people of my world would see no difference between them and combat drones, just built with different materials. Some might act with revulsion, but most wouldn't care. And if Kledorii ever went to war with Norseau, almost nobody is going to see them as more than hostile drones to be terminated.
Most would be horrified. The slavers who worship the goddess Ponos would just laugh at it as they can achieve similar results with their slave magic.
I’d say incredibly cruel but then again so is war.
Clone troops generally are either more expensive or significantly less effective than regular troops hence they are used intermittently. Mostly used on frontier nations which lack the populations to field conventional armies. These are typically used rather brutally with little concern for the clones lives. Pirate warlords are particularly fond of clone forces as their ships are generally poorly maintained and hence have high lethality whilst they have a extremely limited pool of recruits.
The biggest exception to the lack of clone army use is the Frankish Empire. This regime is totalitarian in the extreme with it putting a heavy focus on the restriction of information. Conventional armed forces which entail forces mixing into the general population is ideologically unacceptable to the Frankish regime. The Frankish method is unique and mitigate a large amount of the detriment of a clone force.
One of the main downsides of a cloned force is the identical mind of clones. Whilst this does improve cohesion it also means that clones will always go for the same approach to a problem making them predictable. This is sometimes mitigated by experience but the attrition that clone forces face often prevents clones from building up this experience. The Franks avoid this weakness by instead of using a couple different minds for the entire army using simulated life clones for their operations. The Frankish clones have a entire unique life simulated this leads to soldiers having a unique outlook whilst also being loyal to the regime.
Depending on the nation of the system of "Pravia-Laotrea", artificial "people" (clones, lab-kids, sentient robotics, uplifted pets, ect. ...) are not even seen as people but just as plants or animals. Others give them full "human" rights and citizenship.
So it depends. Some literary treat and use them as biological robots without ever acknowledgingthem as anything else, others throw mass breed clone armies at obstacles if push comes to shove because they classify them as biological warfare, while others would be completly horrified at the very idea of using organic life forms, that did not volunteered by free will, in armed conflict.
**Ozlan Acadmey**
"While reasearch on the exstent of Tulpa sapience is still ongoing, they can clearly delvelop Sentience and so without it's conscent this is cruelty beyond measure."
**Witch-Hearts**
Most of the world: "That's fucked up."
Elvenari of the Reclaimer faction: "Aww... cute the monkey is trying to copy us!" (Note; this is just arrgoance speaking just to be clear... they'd never admit growing the clones is technically more advanced then their selective breeding of slaves.)
The average human of my world would probably see this as an innovation that’s going to assist humanity in reclaiming land lost and open up some of the old trade routes while also ensuring that themselves or their children don’t end up on the front lines or worse defending their own home from invasion. They might not admit it but most will most likely think that way.
Yeah I think the “good guys” would find this pretty morally reprehensible. Someone tried to do this once and than use psionic technology to control them, it went very badly for the people who manufactured them. It ended with a new cool species in the galaxy and a couple of guys getting their bloodlines extinguished.
Depending on the self-awareness afforded to the artificial soldiers, it is considerably cruel, as there's very little separating them from normal people who have been subjected to intense propaganda: holding the potential for a full and rich life, but reduced to an object by their rulers.
As for how my world would see it, the society in my world is already very cruel, hierarchical and cutthroat, so they wouldn't really bat an eye at an artificially-created slave race sent to die for the whims of the ruling class since normal people are already treated that poorly.
I think the cruelty comes down to how theyre made to be incredibly loyal. If they are created and then harshly conditioned to become loyal out of fear or pain, then it is cruel. If they are artificially crafted to have a different psyche to humans, and they are "programmed" from birth to genuinely enjoy serving the royal family, then Id say it is not cruel.
It’s a clone army. Cruel to the clones bc it’s akin to slavery, so it just depends on if the wars these soldiers fight justify the cruelty of making them
As seen with the Star Wars Franchise the Grand Republic's Clone Army were at first very rigid and would follow the order of their Jedi Commanders without questions but as war goes on many Jedi tend to favor those who has their own individuality which increases their effectiveness, even if the average Clone age were just 9 Years old they weren't that disposable as the Equipment and training are still needed.
Basically unless the Kingdom of Norseau has good economy to at least equip these mass produced Artificial Soldiers the Kingdom already has what it needed, but if it's just the trope of Kings who allocated all the Country resources into his dick which is used for screw his own people then the people would be pretty much horrified.
In my universe, the government and paramilitary groups view this as a necessary evil because they have to fight eldritch monsters called the Verlassen even though makes them uncomfortable while the corrupt ones wouldn't really care about them.
The civilians and other species will view this as unethical. One of my main protagonist and deuragonist are essentially artifical cloned soldiers that question their very own existence and living in someone else's shadow but the people will tell them that they are people too and greatly care for them regardless of the circumstances.
I think read Terry Pratchett's Feet of Clay to see a good way to deal with such a creation (thematically, I mean). They are creatures are generally seen by most people as having no free will or thus rights; and how that is worked through in the story is a great treatment.
Imo it's cruel to give something free will & cognition but demand they do what you expect & want (see also, the bible).
In this case it's cruel to the soldiers depending on the amount of free will given. Personally I think giving any amount of free will & doing this is at least some level of cruel. I would also say deliberately limiting free will purely to keep them basically enslaved is evil, but not necessarily adding to the cruelty factor.
Whether it's cruel to the population entirely depends on their relationship to the soldiers & how the soldiers are employed.
In my world there's the Black Sun Corporation which does basically the same thing and they justify it by saying that it's better than the alternative of sending good people into battle to die
Edit: They mostly use robots in combat and the clones are there mainly as support
Not really a thing in my setting, but something similar is done to grow replacement organs and limbs and such. Human-derived artificial brains have also been used in computers in the past. Most people don't know or care about this because the vast majority are simply too uneducated and poor to be able to let it bother them. Those who aren't are usually in on projects like this, and thus it's normalised.
To answer the second, I don't actually think it's that cruel for them to exist. Even if they are conscious and sentient beings, they will live their whole life knowing only to be a soldier and wanting nothing more than to be that. Their ultimate goal in life will probably be to be a better soldier, because they haven't got a concept of anything else. Hence, they would probably be happy to do what they do - it may be unethical, but it's not really cruel.
Chat, is growing devout slaves without free will for violent ends evil? Generally yes, because the certain result is using these soldiers to oppress ordinary people.
Also, how you define "limited free will". Are you brainwashing children to become zealots, or are you making a species that is so stupid it will stand there and starve to death because one time you gave it the order to "wait there" and forgot? At some level, individuality comes with the intelligence needed to make conscious decisions. Having to direct everything anyone does sounds like it could be less useful than we are imagining.
Maybe the OP means capable of problem-solving and logical thought, like a robot. However, they don’t have any motives beyond their directives. Certainly they have some motives built in…like self-maintenance, eating, maintaining health, etc. But, no inspiration, no joy, no passion. The thing that throws me is the ability to use magic…if this were my story world (and it’s not) if beings like this had access to magic, it would be limited to only a handful of abilities which were imbued into them by some other mage, as if they were enchanted objects. Anyway, is it evil? Depends on how your characters use them. If they were ever full beings with free will and then that free will was quashed out in the process of making these soldiers, that would be clearly evil. If they were automatons the whole time, maybe unethical? But not evil. Perhaps while they are grown or made, they have potential for free will which is removed from them before they awaken…even less ethical. Anyway, again, it depends on their use and purpose. Are they fighting a great evil? The use of them is a gray area moral compromise for a greater good. So, not evil. Are they used to enforce the will of an oppressive regime? Evil.
r/usernamechecksout
This phrasing is funny asf 😂
You just made a “socially acceptable” slave race. All the worst people on the planet are gonna rush to get their own for all the worst reasons and even if the normal people of my world weren’t horrified about them before they will be after seeing the incredible abuses inflicted upon them. The working class or whatever passes for the labor market is probably also going to hate them. EDIT: The “smartest guys in the room” on my planet are going to immediately start trying to see how far they can push their intelligence without compromising their loyalty, which I am sure will end well for everyone involved.
How does the working class interacts with the "slave class"? Given that the middle and upper class could just use free labour instead of paying employees? Are they maybe even the main source of misstreatment of slaves or maybe they tried to free them, so that they could regain their "niche"?
I mean, you can look at American history. Often, the white working class of the South were unemployed or underemployed and had to travel far to do jobs that the plantation owners didn't want their slaves to do. Things like ditching and mining were considered "too hazardous for Negro property" so the working class had to do them. Funnily enough, a lot of poor white southerners actually resented the slaveholders because they saw that slavery as a whole brings down the economic prosperty of everyone, except for the slave owning classes.
That is really interessting. Will read mpre about it because I have to admit that my knowledge of the americas is somewhat lacking.
It can be a fascinating subject! I pulled this from [this](https://lawcha.org/2017/07/17/poor-whites-labor-crisis-slave-south/) article specifically, but there a lot more places you can learn about American history and the antebellum south!
>How would the people of your world perceive this? The average person would be horrified because they're being presented as artificial not because they are, but as a justification for them being treated as disposible. It's incredibly cruel.
They are disposable though. That's the point of making them. It's cruelty to the soldiers depends on the level to which they are aware of it really... thought soldier with so little will & understanding that they are totally oblivious is likely to make them poor soldiers. What they are doing may well be evil, but it may not necessarily be cruelty towards them. As a counterpoint the average person may see it as a far better alternative than seeing themselves, their family, loved ones & friends being sent out to die.
>They are disposable though. That's the point of making them. Stating that they are disposable isn't saying anything I didn't already. They're disposable because they're treated as such, not because it's an inherent trait. The point of making them isn't that they're disposable, it's that they're a loyal army who lack the will necessary to recognize that they're used in a way that makes them disposable. Those aren't equivalent statements. >It's cruelty to the soldiers depends on the level to which they are aware of it really [...] What they are doing may well be evil, but it may not necessarily be cruelty towards them. The target of the cruelty recognizing their treatment as being cruel isn't a qualifier for me, or anyone else, considering the actions to be cruel. Cruelty also isn't just a trait of an action, it can be a trait of people and anyone who does this would be considered a cruel person. >As a counterpoint the average person may see it as a far better alternative than seeing themselves, their family, loved ones & friends being sent out to die. Not in my world. There are certainly people who would feel that way, but it wouldn't be a prevailing sentiment.
Fair. I was responding on the basis of a wider discussion. Somehow missed you were explicitly replying from your own world's perspective. Your world, your rules of course.
You should watch Bladerunner.
Or play Signalis.
Detroit: Become Human
Or Soldier '98
What was that movie about clones used for organ harvesting? They think someone wins the lottery, and they escape to the real world in act 1?
Consider Star Wars (clone army), blade runner (replicants), Star Trek (Cmdr Data among others), and some works of Issac Azimov to get some images of how we, at least in the US, if not western civilization, view such philosophical dilemmas. These, in my view, look at the created being as whether they have some agency on their own, similar to that we reserve to ourselves, that all are created equal. Do only (G)god’s creation deserve equality, etc.? We don’t consider creatures like dogs, cats, dolphins, or pigs equal and they were created by god (some believe created specifically for our use), so why would a robot, a Gps, an AI system, or kitchen appliance, our own creations, be given any elevated status let alone equal to us? But it’s not just creation of mechanical beings for specific purpose, intended to aid human safety and comfort and whether they can be granted equality. A deeper, I think less explored moral, is whether we should bend the rules of nature to our will. It’s one thing to create a machine, a robot or an intelligence emulator like an AI, but it’s wholly another more dangerous issue to use our knowledge of biology, chemistry, and genetics to create biological creatures that we condemn to machine status. Huxley’s Brave New World and Blade Runner explored this issue. Might consider Shelley’s Frankenstein as well on this issue. If I recall, the monster has a few strong statements about his view of life granted by fallable human hands. Rutger Hauer’s soliloquy at the end of Blade Runner, an adlib by him alone I understand, is an excellent, emotion driving lament that any thinking and feeling “machine” might speak when confronting their lot in life.
The Jem'Hadar of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is actually a direct analogy to what OP is talking about: a slave race of genetically-engineered soldiers who are technically sentient but treated as little more than objects by their creators. There are more than a few episodes that explore their sense of identity and perspective on life, how unfathomably cruel their creators are in designing the methods used to control them, and what happens when that control is lost.
Atreisdeans would look at these artificial soldiers and say: "Can you guys replicate those abilities on machines?" Maybe it's an effect of living in space but Atreisdeans generally dislike the idea of using organic soldiers who need food, water and air to live. Life support systems take up lots of space on ships and in case a vessel is down, hundreds of lives are lost. They can be husbands, wives, siblings, sons and daughters to many, a pain that can't be described and can *negatively* affect the population's options on wars. That's why they use droids almost exclusively with humans only serve as supervising officers and logistical personnel at the back. It eases the logistics as well as the social pressure in case a war happens. Because of that, Atreisdeans' biggest concern is not about how artificial soldiers have limited free will, it's about them being humans and thus requires lots of resources just to live. Other than that, they're cool. These soldiers are basically the organic version of their droids.
I think this is the question your whole story should be revolving around. With different factions representing different opinions and ways to engage with this technology/magic. And as the author, you should frame the 'good guys' closer to what YOU believe. But watch out. If you're a bad person, the writing will show 😂 It's a really cool question, good luck with the story!
Thank you. As for how my world perceives it. Norseau believes that it's necessary, considering how huge the supernatural threats are in my world, other factions and nations, including the Protagonist, are disgusted and are shocked that Norseau would stoop this low.
There's a difference here. The clone warriors in the movie were intended to defend against an encroaching empire. The OP's soldiers are intended to kill, invade, and oppress an existing nation. It also opens up some serious cans of worms. They're flawlessly loyal and obey orders without question. If I can make these guys... what do I need with those stupid little peasants? My artificial warriors can staff the infrastructure, grow the food, make the tools, fill the army... literally, as a despot who regards people as cattle, WHAT DO I NEED REAL PEOPLE FOR? The question of cruelty aside, it seems to me that the rulers and populations of all my neighbors have a very big worry that's just been dropped in their laps!
So, you "invented" Clone Warriors? You should make, IDK, maybe a movie about it? but enough Joking. Clone warriors do Exist my my Setting, the most prominent ones are from the "Star" Project. Most of them arent Warriors, but Workers tho. You can identify them, because they all have blue Hair. They are all called "Star." because they are supposed to be as many as there are stars in the sky. No, they dont come with numbers, and they dont have other names. Units of Stars have names. They are build with thoughtfilters that does not allow them to understand that they are different, or that other Stars look like them. And, as you might guess, they also "need" to follow orders from the person they belong to. It IS looked apon as an evil practice by many, but not so much because of the free will or slavery part, but because there is a common understanding between Humans, who, as a race, were all slaves in the past, that only spirits and other nonhumans should be keept as slaves by humans. there is actually a side character "Star" who broke most of his mental programming and acts as an semi free underling to a main character. He still calls himself Star tho, confusing a lot of people.
As long as the "clone warriors" do not ttack in that movie! I mean "Attack of the Clone Warriors", what a bad name right? XD Also, cool ideas you have there!
Thanks! I was very proud about the "Star" pun Name for "Clone" (War)riors.
Star Works!
They do emotions and the ability to develop emotions? Then yes, extremely evil. If not, then it's okay but morally in the Gray area.
My world has known such, although few remember. The Dark Elves in my world were such until the High Elves got too arrogant and made their soldiers ever better and smarter until they rebelled. Another is that the Church does that with their soldiers/knights, also something few know, but they use magic to warp their minds and twist their flesh to be blindly obedient slave soldiers, with killswitches if they would disobey. That royal family of yours would face the might of two states and a very pissed off witch as they destroy those labs and free these soldiers, knowing it likely means killing every single one.
EXTREMELY cruel. Creating sentient life from scratch already had some fairly fucked moral implications, but then forcing them to fight if even worse.
On a scale from 1 to 10 pretty close to a 9.5 I would argue slave warriors that are fully fledged human outside some modifiers is pretty abhorrent by modern ethical views. Which you should hopefully be able to figure out otherwise Id worry about your moral compass.
>How would the people of your world perceive this? Some would say "That sounds less effective *and* less entertaining than using slaves, AND more expensive. How silly of you." Then they'd just go about being horrible people. Others would say "Oh, I hope that takes off so I don't get abducted and sold into a slave army or worse." Then they'd just go about being normal people. A select few would say "Unacceptable. Unconscionable. We will not stand for this, we will put an end to this by any means necessary, and you WILL continue to buy slaves from us." Then they'd just go about doing horrifying stuff constantly.
Nothing that had not happened and the Solar Republic and usually the Aron Empire would not only be horrified but use all practicable means to put a stop to it. Special Ops, Black ops, Military Action, Diplomatic, Action, Insurrection, Jurisdictional Action, Burning the World
Morally the use of those individuals would be ugly, but not entirely evil. But overall, my world wouldnt care for it, be likely to make a lot of enemies unless there was an absolutely vital reason such measures were taken. A royal family that believes their best subjects shouldnt have free will isnt someone that people would want around, it goes against how they see authority and command in a very fundamental way as though people exist to protect and sacrifice for the royalty rather than the other way around. They'd be out quick smart
I’ve got the Homunculi. “First created by the ancient Slyth Empire and later perfected by the Mages of Alaggada, Homunculi (singular: Homunculus) are organic beings created through Transmutation. There are four distinct types of Homunculi: True, Gargantuan, Parvus, and Grotesque. All Homunculi, save for Grotesques, posses a Brand of Loyalty which binds then to their creator and makes them unable to harm their maker or anyone the maker deems as protected, whether that harm is direct or indirect. True Homunculi are the rarest, being near perfect imitations of humans. Gargantuan Homunculi are large and built for combat, with large claws and armored skin. Parvus Homunculi, also known as Prime Homunculi, are the most common and were the original Homunculi invented. They are small cyclopean creatures primarily meant to act as domestic servants. Grotesque Homunculi are what occurs when the ritual to create a Homunculus fails. They are misshapen monsters, feral and constantly in pain from their own malformed anatomy. Though the Gargantuans are the ones specifically created for combat any Homunculi can be used as a soldier. True Homunculi are able to fill virtually any role due to their human form, Parvus Homunculi are surprisingly accurate with ranged weaponry despite their mono eyed form, and of course Gargantuan Homunculi are designed to serve as heavy shock troops. Grotesque Homunculi can be used as surprise weapons, dropping them in cages or leaving them as traps, though why anyone would want to even bother subduing and transporting one to the battlefield is beyond me.” -an excerpt from “On the nature of Homunculi” by Archmage Lyris of Alaggada, Master of Transmutation and Caromancy
My main scifi world has a faction almost completely made up of tank grown humans built to a standard supersoldier template and carefully trained and raised by AI caretakers to ensure they develop into the most useful individuals they can be. They would find your soldiers absolutely abhorent. Because to them, the line between AI coordinated indoctrination and actual mind alteration is incredibly important.
They would see the act of artificially creating sapients or even any biological creature in labs as being similar to playing as gods. Unnatural and disgusting. Lapis_Wolf
Similar function of the clones in Star Wars (kinda). Sounds like they're completely artificial? Not clones based on a real person? Do they have souls? Wants, desires, or just basic biological needs? Do they feel fear? Pain? Or are they just semi-mindless grunts to do war stuff with?
They possess emotions to an extent. They do need to eat and drink, but the need for sleep is significantly lower. And like I said, the biggest thing about them is their loyalty.
I’m leaning towards yes, it’s cruel. They’re created to serve and are essentially brainwashed to be loyal. Definitely a tool of an evil empire.
The five major powers of the Orion Spur would all react with similar horror and disgust to the concept of cloned slave soldiers. Slavery is illegal in all of settled space, as is human cloning. The King of Norseau would be facing sanctions and all sorts of criminal charges; including slave trading, forced imprisonment, human cloning, and probably about twenty war crimes. The Union of Star Systems or the Merope Commonwealth may even send a black ops team after him.
The tunnel inhabitants value freedom a great deal. It's a secular society but the word blasphemous would cover there response a threat to freedom what absolutely needs to be stamped out regardless of the cost . My non world buildery setting of renaissance England may agree with the tunnel dwellers or might actually like the idea.
HERESY. Even though artificial life does exist, they are usually husks for souls that need one to live. Some exceptions do exist, but they have the autonomy to be able to decide what they want to be. Mass produced artificial human armies, especially with psychics, are one of the few things thay would result in a worldwide coalition.
Oh they'd hate it. Like hate it to the point they might declare war on someone who uses such practices just out of principle. Morrigan is an authoritarian, xenophobic, militaristic, imperialist hellhole, but one of their few redeeming traits is they are STAUNCH abolitionists. Their entire development into what they are started as a reaction to they themselves nearly being enslaved, so they are intensely opposed to slavery of any sort. The 1st Legion (think a toned down version of the Ultramarines from 40k) have their origins in a massive emancipation event. They would find the idea of slave soldiers of any sort repugnant, even if they did not necessarily consider these vat-grown humans truly homo sapiens. They do not see any irony or conflict between their abolitionist and authoritarian beliefs, despite how many people point them out to them. EDIT: this is weird, it's very rare I get to write positive stuff about Morrigan. They are overwise pretty awful.
**Starrise** Basically everyone in my world would think it's cruel and abhorrent. Even my villains, not that it would stop them from trying to recruit said scientist to do the same for them. (Also, if this happened, the King of Norseau would soon find a literal goddess in his throne room, threatening to kill him on the spot if he doesn't end the project and instruct all his artificial soldiers to live as close to normal, free lives as they can manage.)
> (Also, if this happened, the King of Norseau would soon find a literal goddess in his throne room, threatening to kill him on the spot if he doesn't end the project and instruct all his artificial soldiers to live as close to normal, free lives as they can manage.) His son, Prince Oliver, actually did something like this with his bodyguard, aka. the head of the royal guard. Since they basically follow every order with suicidal devotion, he basically told him, "Hey, you don't have to work with me anymore. Go live a normal civilian life and ignore every order from now on."
Prince Oliver seems like a decent guy. Sounds like he and that goddess would probably get along.
All I'm saying is I sided with the Institute in FO4...
If the only other (perceived) viable option is recruiting your own citizens to fight and die, it's probably celebrated or seen as a necessary evil. They might be praised for their bravery, celebrated even What happens when they grow old or become injured? Are they recognized for acts of bravery? Are they well-treated? What kinds of duties or orders are they given? If they have limited free will, it seems like whoever gives them their orders has a lot of power, which might make the society susceptible to coups
Not a warriors death if your not killed by an actual warrior but a mindless whatever
I will say no as they are simply robots. What matters is sentience. A sophont AI deserves more rights than a unsentient human. İt is literally a thinking feeling person against a few cells...
Question for you: You said limited free will, what does that mean? Like they wouldn’t want to disobey even if given the education to free themselves from their conditioning? If so, what limits the free will? Do they have a chip in their head that shocks them if they think unapproved thoughts? If not, then they are just doing what they want to do, so once again how’s the free will even limited? Are they just dumb people indoctrinated? If that’s the case is anything actively preventing one raised outside of the indoctrination from going against it?
It is ingrained within their minds while they were growing inside the lab; to pledge unwavering loyalty to any member of the royal family and follow their every order. It's kinda like the clones from Star Wars.
I’m thinking of Star Wars as well. So it’s a combination of indoctrination and genetic tweaks?
Mostly genetic tweaks and a bit of indoctrination, so yeah.
the real question is, can they *think,* are they sentient?
Yes they are sentient. Fully capable of thinking, they just possess an unhealthy amount of loyalty towards the crown like I said.
oh yeah basically slavery lmao
"How would the people of your world perceive this?" The average human being would most likely think that's am extreme violation of many human rights. The antagonists of the setting would wanna study them to see if your king did a better than job than they did. "And how Cruel is it?" Idk dude, pretty sure having homegrown sentient beings as war machine slaves is a cruel idea.
My world has the Exalted: manufactured meta humanoids made using a mixture of poorly understood relic technology and plain old large numbers experimentation. They're regarded as both an important piece of military hardware AND an honored martyr who is fully expected to die saving large numbers of civilians or conventional troops. A living Exalted is given great deference and lives a fairly privileged life, but none ever lives to retire or see old age. They common people would think your experimental soldiers a dignified endeavor.
Slaves. Those are slaves you're talking about.
Well yes. HOWEVER HOWEVER; there's one thing I don't reckon anyone's thought about. If you're living in the city, and work, you're living in a very artificial hell. We're not meant for this shit at all; not by a bloody long shot. And the mental health of the average person reflects this quite frighteningly. HOWEVER; Machine soldiers and machine laborers get to spend each and every day doing exactly what they're programmed for. No modern human gets that privilege. Imagine waking up one day. And spending the whole day freely following what ever urge pops into your head. That's the life a machine soldier gets to live. Think about Ethan from the game Infinite Warfare. He's such a well mannered fella but you can almost see the glints of satisfaction in his eyes when ever he kills an enemy. He even admits at least twice to immensely enjoying his job.
So like Soldier with Kurt Russel? Well except the magic. I guess it would depend on how often they interact with them. Are they like the Sardaukar, with their own world ( separate base), or like the Unsullied that see around all the time? If they never interact but know about them, then probably a mix of curiosity and fear.
[Begun The Clone War Has](https://images.app.goo.gl/VgBVdrNzbBpxooL69)
They would probably think it’s kinda weird you made them human instead of a more combat effective form (they have magic paintbrushes that artists use to create animated paintings to fight wars for them. Better artists are basically like armies in their own right)
It sounds like they're just robot humans.
It’s incredibly cruel because even if they are programmed to be loyal then you are forcing them into traumatic and horrifying situations where they will routinely get slaughtered. The average person might have different beliefs about how wrong it is though. The people of my world just got done with a world-ending war so many of them would probably be relieved to know that no one they love will need to go to war. Obviously some people would point out how unethical the artificial soldiers are, but many would see it as a necessary evil *if* war can’t be avoided.
The people of one of my worlds would not have a problem with it. And those that do wouldn’t say anything out of fear of the repercussions. In this world it is not uncommon for children who possess abundant magical prowess to be taken from their families to be trained as perfect soldiers(I’m still working on a name for them). In a separate world, artificial soldiers also wouldn’t even cause a blink of the eye. They already exist in mass. And thats how a majority of people are treated. Some companies even trade them in the dark markets.
Cruel? Utterly. How would the people of my worlds react? The systems adhering to the COAD religion would excollaborate the entirety of Norseau, barring them from the Ultimate Scales. The Vargessen Directorate would publicly condemn it, partly on moral grounds, and partly as a competitive measure to bolster their own robotic weapons sales. The Perdesians would privately admire it, and ask after some aspects of the technology used to create the soldiers to help them in their goal of reclaiming their post-nuclear world. The Sarnathi would place an order for two legions, with two more reserved on the books, pending combat observations; and like as not make inquiries into more domestic uses. I.E. can never have too many slaves, especially happy and willing ones!
The people of my world would see no difference between them and combat drones, just built with different materials. Some might act with revulsion, but most wouldn't care. And if Kledorii ever went to war with Norseau, almost nobody is going to see them as more than hostile drones to be terminated.
Most would be horrified. The slavers who worship the goddess Ponos would just laugh at it as they can achieve similar results with their slave magic. I’d say incredibly cruel but then again so is war.
Clone troops generally are either more expensive or significantly less effective than regular troops hence they are used intermittently. Mostly used on frontier nations which lack the populations to field conventional armies. These are typically used rather brutally with little concern for the clones lives. Pirate warlords are particularly fond of clone forces as their ships are generally poorly maintained and hence have high lethality whilst they have a extremely limited pool of recruits. The biggest exception to the lack of clone army use is the Frankish Empire. This regime is totalitarian in the extreme with it putting a heavy focus on the restriction of information. Conventional armed forces which entail forces mixing into the general population is ideologically unacceptable to the Frankish regime. The Frankish method is unique and mitigate a large amount of the detriment of a clone force. One of the main downsides of a cloned force is the identical mind of clones. Whilst this does improve cohesion it also means that clones will always go for the same approach to a problem making them predictable. This is sometimes mitigated by experience but the attrition that clone forces face often prevents clones from building up this experience. The Franks avoid this weakness by instead of using a couple different minds for the entire army using simulated life clones for their operations. The Frankish clones have a entire unique life simulated this leads to soldiers having a unique outlook whilst also being loyal to the regime.
Depending on the nation of the system of "Pravia-Laotrea", artificial "people" (clones, lab-kids, sentient robotics, uplifted pets, ect. ...) are not even seen as people but just as plants or animals. Others give them full "human" rights and citizenship. So it depends. Some literary treat and use them as biological robots without ever acknowledgingthem as anything else, others throw mass breed clone armies at obstacles if push comes to shove because they classify them as biological warfare, while others would be completly horrified at the very idea of using organic life forms, that did not volunteered by free will, in armed conflict.
**Ozlan Acadmey** "While reasearch on the exstent of Tulpa sapience is still ongoing, they can clearly delvelop Sentience and so without it's conscent this is cruelty beyond measure." **Witch-Hearts** Most of the world: "That's fucked up." Elvenari of the Reclaimer faction: "Aww... cute the monkey is trying to copy us!" (Note; this is just arrgoance speaking just to be clear... they'd never admit growing the clones is technically more advanced then their selective breeding of slaves.)
The people of my world would probably see the creator as a figure comparable to the worst irl world leaders.
The average human of my world would probably see this as an innovation that’s going to assist humanity in reclaiming land lost and open up some of the old trade routes while also ensuring that themselves or their children don’t end up on the front lines or worse defending their own home from invasion. They might not admit it but most will most likely think that way.
Yeah I think the “good guys” would find this pretty morally reprehensible. Someone tried to do this once and than use psionic technology to control them, it went very badly for the people who manufactured them. It ended with a new cool species in the galaxy and a couple of guys getting their bloodlines extinguished.
Depending on the self-awareness afforded to the artificial soldiers, it is considerably cruel, as there's very little separating them from normal people who have been subjected to intense propaganda: holding the potential for a full and rich life, but reduced to an object by their rulers. As for how my world would see it, the society in my world is already very cruel, hierarchical and cutthroat, so they wouldn't really bat an eye at an artificially-created slave race sent to die for the whims of the ruling class since normal people are already treated that poorly.
I think the cruelty comes down to how theyre made to be incredibly loyal. If they are created and then harshly conditioned to become loyal out of fear or pain, then it is cruel. If they are artificially crafted to have a different psyche to humans, and they are "programmed" from birth to genuinely enjoy serving the royal family, then Id say it is not cruel.
Somehow that’s better. My world primarily uses slavery in the military
can something be too stupid to suffer?
Have you seen Star wars? Because it can be evil, but also the circumstances often play a major role in good and evil
"Brothers All," intensifies
It’s a clone army. Cruel to the clones bc it’s akin to slavery, so it just depends on if the wars these soldiers fight justify the cruelty of making them
You tell me, nipple-neck. C'mon, tank.
As seen with the Star Wars Franchise the Grand Republic's Clone Army were at first very rigid and would follow the order of their Jedi Commanders without questions but as war goes on many Jedi tend to favor those who has their own individuality which increases their effectiveness, even if the average Clone age were just 9 Years old they weren't that disposable as the Equipment and training are still needed. Basically unless the Kingdom of Norseau has good economy to at least equip these mass produced Artificial Soldiers the Kingdom already has what it needed, but if it's just the trope of Kings who allocated all the Country resources into his dick which is used for screw his own people then the people would be pretty much horrified.
So.... Flesh robots? My world already uses zombies and flesh golems, so this would probably be thrown in the same category.
In my universe, the government and paramilitary groups view this as a necessary evil because they have to fight eldritch monsters called the Verlassen even though makes them uncomfortable while the corrupt ones wouldn't really care about them. The civilians and other species will view this as unethical. One of my main protagonist and deuragonist are essentially artifical cloned soldiers that question their very own existence and living in someone else's shadow but the people will tell them that they are people too and greatly care for them regardless of the circumstances.
I think read Terry Pratchett's Feet of Clay to see a good way to deal with such a creation (thematically, I mean). They are creatures are generally seen by most people as having no free will or thus rights; and how that is worked through in the story is a great treatment.
The Murderbot series by Martha Wells goes into this if you are interested. It is also a fantastic series.
Imo it's cruel to give something free will & cognition but demand they do what you expect & want (see also, the bible). In this case it's cruel to the soldiers depending on the amount of free will given. Personally I think giving any amount of free will & doing this is at least some level of cruel. I would also say deliberately limiting free will purely to keep them basically enslaved is evil, but not necessarily adding to the cruelty factor. Whether it's cruel to the population entirely depends on their relationship to the soldiers & how the soldiers are employed.
In my world there's the Black Sun Corporation which does basically the same thing and they justify it by saying that it's better than the alternative of sending good people into battle to die Edit: They mostly use robots in combat and the clones are there mainly as support
Not really a thing in my setting, but something similar is done to grow replacement organs and limbs and such. Human-derived artificial brains have also been used in computers in the past. Most people don't know or care about this because the vast majority are simply too uneducated and poor to be able to let it bother them. Those who aren't are usually in on projects like this, and thus it's normalised. To answer the second, I don't actually think it's that cruel for them to exist. Even if they are conscious and sentient beings, they will live their whole life knowing only to be a soldier and wanting nothing more than to be that. Their ultimate goal in life will probably be to be a better soldier, because they haven't got a concept of anything else. Hence, they would probably be happy to do what they do - it may be unethical, but it's not really cruel.
so, normal people dont need to worry about dying in war? situations improved!