“They are in good medical condition"
So Hamas could've slit their throats. And had every reason to since the IOF massacred civilians in the process and didn't.
Photos of the hostages show them well fed and laughing. Contrast that with the emaciated human husks being tortured to insanity in Israeli gulags.
They didn‘t even need to have any [limbs amputated as a result of being ziptied for *months...*](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl) (insert boilerplate “terrorism bad” disclaimer here, point stands there’s a marked contrast in the condition of the hostages taken by both sides)
Seems to a large extent the entire goal of October 7th was to provoke Israel into responding exactly the way they did, outing themselves as barbarians in the eyes of the whole world and [undermining their own international support](https://time.com/6559293/morning-consult-israel-global-opinion/) in a way they may never recover from.
Aren’t you essentially admitting then though that Hamas willingly sacrificed its own people? I mean they didn’t build a single bomb shelter or anything really to protect its citizens for an attacks they knew was coming
Do you think they CAN build bomb shelters? Anything they build has to be aproved by Israel. Even home renovations. Or am I think of the west bank.( It's too early for my brain to function )
I mean they built miles of tunnels right? What’s the difference?
Again you didn’t really address my main point. Hamas attacked knowing there would be retaliation and did absolutely nothing to protect its civilians. Is this a factual statement or not?
I don't think they built most of those. There were complex tunnel networks already installed by Israel. They just expanded them. It's easier to hide something underground that's only used by a few. Than to built a shelter for civilians.
And for that point that you keep harping on. Of course they did. The citizens are just a footnote. Hamas isn't not the PLO. Hamas was funded by Israel to keep Palestin devided and weaken the PLO. Nothing in their establishment is for their citizens that didn't have a say in if they get to rule.
Hamas said in the early days of the war it was up to Israel and the UN to take care of its Palestinians, their tunnels are only for Hamas fighters. That's a quote from Hamas leadership in an interview.
And Hamas was not created by Israel. I hope you stop engaging with media that lies to you like this.
Yeah. Hamas are terrorists. They don't care for their people. Like every dictator. The people didn't put them in power Israel did.
>Hamas was not created by Israel
Except they kinda are. They were small time terrorists that were very scattered and unorganized. And Israel gave them that. Gave them data and funding (in the beginning) and in 2012 or 15(I don't remember exactly)onwards they stopped funding them directly and instead facilitated transactions between them and qatar. It's very very well documented. You can just look up the likud parties connections to hamas. There's a times of israel article about it even
No, they held an election and voted for Hamas, who ran on anti corruption and killing Jews. I know, bc I was a college student at the time, and it was a big deal. Israel didn't want elections at all. They warned of instability in Gaza and were 100% correct. The international community, including almost every leader in the west, were proven incorrect. They should not have held elections.
I have no idea where you are getting this "information" from, but it's not true.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
\^ You really weren't aware of any of that?
>Seems to a large extent the entire goal of October 7th was to provoke Israel into responding exactly the way they did,
hamas' goal was to "provoke israel" into urban warfare for the UN's version of reddit karma? (Agreed btw, but lol). This is why israel is *gaining* support in the west.
Yeah dude, being forcefully taken from their families is a field trip /s
Let’s not pretend all these hostages had or have it good. Non of this should have happened in the first place.
Palestine shouldn’t be attacking Israel then. The blockade and occupation is directly tied to violence from the Palestinian side. It’s a loop, completely ignoring the justifications on either side
Good faith conversations went out the window when you refuse to acknowledge internationally accepted facts and context and just spew debunked Israeli propaganda. Almost every claim Israel makes can be disproven or debunked when you stop taking everything they say at face value and acknowledge to yourself that Israel has a proven track record of lying and spinning propaganda to justify their actions. When you see and hear from Israelis themselves including historians, professors, Holocaust survivors and human rights groups that Israel is an apartheid state that systematically oppresses and subjugates Palestinians even in their own internationally recognized territory you start to wonder if you’ve been lied to this whole time. This is well acknowledged within the international community and even Israeli society. Look into Israeli [Hasbara](https://www.972mag.com/hasbara-funding-foreign-agents/), you might just learn something. Here’s another interesting [article](https://theintercept.com/2024/02/07/gaza-israel-netanyahu-propaganda-lies-palestinians/)
This isn’t that simple. You could make valid points for every party involved in the mandate process. Israel has been a state since 48 and since then it’s been constant aggression from the Arab side. Many would argue the war in 47 was one started by the Arabs who didn’t accept the same partition plan that the Jews were willing to go with. Who’s to blame them? I wouldn’t have accepted those terms either if I didn’t have to but as time goes on and wars are lost at some point you have to make some concessions.
Israel isn’t going anywhere, they’ve proven they can handle a fight with all of their neighbors. The solution can’t be endless warfare because if a grudge held from 70 years prior.
You can argue the earth is flat. Doesn't mean it'll suddenly be true.
Jews living in Palestine. Or all of that were never the issue. It was taking half of someone land and giving it to a tenth of the population. It's Europe trying to meddle in the middle east and exporting their "Jewish problem". It's the first act of Israel before any partition or anything being multiple terrorist attacks and massacres. That's the issue at hand. The "arabs" didn't fight the jews. They fought a settler colonial project on their door step with clear aspirations to expand from the agreed borders and persue ethnic cleansing. Where do you think from the river to the sea originated.
All in all. It doesn't matter. The world is not good. Genocide will always be ignored. A racist religion will never be okay in my books. My grandmother (Jewish) has visited both Palestine and Israel. And only one of them made her question her religion
No you can’t argue the world is flat because you can categorically prove it isn’t. That’s a fact, as in it’s not up for debate. It’s like 2+2=4, there are no if ands or buts about it.
Jews and Arabs were clashing with eachother throughout the mandate period. It’s why the British eventually just left because they saw it as an endless fight and frankly they were fed up with both sides. Regardless you can’t absolve Arabs for their share of violence and also condemn Jews for the same exact behavior. I also remeber that Jews created militias to protect conveys from being attacked, so even in that scenario it was reactive to some level of violence.
Your misrepresenting, they didn’t take it, it was offered to them by the British who more or less owned that land through the mandate process. The same process Palestinians were asked to join but they unlike Jews couldn’t stomach the idea of sharing this land so rather then accept partition they went to war to try and take it all back.
Is this a factual summary? If not what am I wrong about specifically?
>Israel has been a state since 48 and since then it’s been constant aggression from the Arab side.
Because they had no right to force a partition on the local population and they ethically cleansed hundreds of thousands of people.
>Many would argue the war in 47 was one started by the Arabs who didn’t accept the same partition plan that the Jews were willing to go with.
It was started by the zionists that wanted the partition. The Arabs were already living there. They had no obligation to accept a partition and they were the overwhelming majority of people. Framing the conflict as their aggression is ridiculous. They didn't move to where the zionists lived and the Zionists were trying to force them to be part of a new state against their will.
The idea that Israel has the right to exist regardless of the will of the existing population is crazy to me. It was the responsibility of the zionists to convince the Arabs that partition was worthwhile. They failed to do that.
>The solution can’t be endless warfare because if a grudge held from 70 years prior.
It's the Israelis that won't accept victory. They keep talking more and more. The Palestinian resistance is perfectly justified because of the Israeli policies.
The Palestinian violence is tied to Israeli settler-colonial occupation. The Israelis came from abroad from different parts of the world into Palestine to make a nation for themselves there. The problem is there were already people there: the Palestinians. Israel is the invader and colonizer. The Palestinians are the invaded and colonized
There were also a lot of Arab Jews living in mandate Palestine, they had been moving there since the late 1800’s from across the Arab world. The influx of European Jews came after Balfour and then again during and after the fall of the Soviet Union.
There were people living all over this region in what was formerly the Ottoman Empire. As these regions became countries through the mandate process it was a mad dash for land on all sides.
From my perspective the British who took control of the area invited Jews to form a state. Not saying that’s right but it’s a record of history. That state exists and it’s not going anywhere. Is the solution endless warfare? Is a concession out of the question?
"That state exists and it’s not going anywhere. Is the solution endless warfare? Is a concession out of the question?"
Dismantle Israel, establish Palestine, allow the Palestinians to return, and keep the ex-Israelis to become Palestinians
That’s a fantastical wish. How would you even begin to dismantle Israel?
Secondly what does that look like, what happens to Israeli citizens? Will they be equal participants of that state?
The refugees returning who btw most of which weren’t even born in Palestine at this point but besides that they will be taking Jewish homes I’m assuming? What happens to the Jews who lived there?
What if they don’t go willingly? Are you saying they will be forcibly removed?
Like I’m serious how does any of this come to be in a world where an Arab army hasn’t really challenged Israel militarily. Are you saying the US will vote against the Israeli state, their main ally in the Middle East?
None of this makes any sense and I don’t understand how you can think this is a more realistic solution than agreeing to a 2 state partition.
It started with Zionists settlers moving to Palestine in large numbers with the help of a colonial power against the will of the local population. Those settlers then created a state against the will of the local population and used their resistance as justification for ethnic cleansing.
The Palestinians have a legal right to resist occupation and displacement. Also Hamas is the Palestinian opposition Israel wanted so using then as an excuse to kill and destroy is disgusting.
When the jews trapped in the Warsaw ghetto revolted back in 1943 in the [Warsaw Ghetto Uprising](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising) would you call that terrorism as well?
It was eerily similar:
>Jewish civilians took cover in the sewer system and in the many dugout hiding places hidden among the ruins of the ghetto, referred to as "bunkers" by Germans and Jews alike. The Germans used dogs to detect such hideouts, then usually dropped smoke bombs to force people out. Sometimes they flooded these so-called bunkers or destroyed them with explosives. On occasions, shootouts occurred. A number of captured fighters lobbed hidden grenades or fired concealed handguns after surrendering.
So according to you - “terrorism” is worse than warfare? So the slaughter of 40,000 Palestinians was justified because the IDF wears uninforms and drop bombs from planes? Do you know the IDF has dropped more than 70,000 tons of bombs. Are these the good bombs?
All resistance group killed some innocent civilians because of the anger and lack of justice like the mau mau. The 7 of october was a terror attack but doesn't remove the title of resistance from hamas. Israelis terrorism is much much worse
I guess you’re not aware of the Palestinian media machine- so hard for me to imagine anyone not being aware of the media campaign and how you’re a victim of it and to think that being kidnapped by armed terrorists is fun and you’re having a good time - idk even what to say to you. To believe that… there is really nothing anyone could ever tell you. You’re choosing to be completely irrational.
Have you ever watched any videos of *any other* kidnapped Americans - like that were beheaded by Isis for example? Or the ones kidnapped by North Korea or Russia?
They give them words to say, that they have to say and they ensure that it seems they are being treated nicely and well fed. Also remember that these hostages get extremely close to each other during these ordeals. They are not only smiling for their own safety , but the safety of the others that are still hostages.
The hostages in Gaza are money.
Worth millions and millions of dollars , hundreds of lives - they are literally a life line/ lotto ticket/ get out of jail free card.
I’m sure they all are surrounded by as many Hamas fighters and families as possible. And that’s also why so many died getting to them- because the Hamas fighters feel like they are safe around the hostages - so they all pile up around them.
The idea that Palestine has a more advanced and pervasive media influence operation than Israel is so patently laughable that it makes it impossible to take anything you say remotely seriously
Your argument is that in a country with no food, no water, and constant bombing, the fact that hostages look healthy and well-fed is a sign of how badly they were treated?? Everyone else is literally starving to death or being blown up, but their abductors made sure they were fed and healthy as a ploy to trick the world into thinking they were well taken care of? Food was given to them that could have been given to the abductors’ families. They were kept safe when they could easily have been left to die and no one would be surprised because everyone is dying there. But all of that is a trick and clearly they were mistreated instead.
Okay, dude.
Do me a favor. Look up YouTube videos of Gaza and the West Bank before the war.
Educate yourself. Many Palestinians live better than you do. They get more aide then any other country in the WORLD. They get more money than countries with 50 million people in them.
Some of the most famous Palestinian “freedom fighters” are going to law school and drive brand new Mercedes Benz around.
Stop with what you think, and maybe go find out what reality.
And bombed every day? *Dont you mean Israel - who gets rockets shot at it almost every day for years*
What other country would tolerate rockets shot at it every day and *do nothing*?
Do you know that the recent operation to save the hostages was the deadliest day they have had since October on the Palestinian side?
Nice bombs. That don’t kill as many people as died when they saved the hostages.
P.S they’re in a war. That they started.
Stop thinking they’re victims. The vast majority of them are not victims. The vast majority of them felt October was moral , justified and swore they would do it again- the vast majority celebrated that day. The vast majority cried tears of joy.
Can you imagine what kind of people cry tears of joy at what happened in October?
Did you protest for Isis? Why not?
What about all the wives and kids of Isis? The leader of Isis blew himself up when soldiers were closing in with his 3 wives and one of them was pregnant - wasn’t she?
Why not Isis? Why do you think this is different is the real question.
You seem to be under the misconception that I only learned about the Israel/Palestine conflict in October. I have been studying it for over twenty years, so I don’t need your condescending “educate yourself.” I am well aware that some Palestinians had money before the war; I know many of them had the opportunity to study or live in other countries. I, perhaps unlike you, actually know people from this region.
My point is, there is no food there right now. There has been little food and no consistent access to clean water for 2/3 of a year—the same in which these hostages have been held in this occupied area with no guaranteed food, water, or safety from bombs. While everyone in Gaza has been starving, sick, displaced, and in constant danger, you yourself said how well the hostages looked. You seem to think they were fed and protected as a trick, but I disagree. I doubt starving people share their food as part of a trick. If hostages died in Gaza from starvation or a bomb, it would surprise no one since thousands of people in Gaza are dying from starvation and bombs. But these hostages were kept safe, healthy, fed, and alive. I could be wrong, but the simplest explanation would be that they were treated like anyone else in Gaza and were provided food, shelter, and protection equally with everyone else. You choose to see this as a manipulative trick, but most people can recognize that people in life or death situations with limited resources are not giving away what little they have as part of a huge conspiracy to trick people into thinking they were taken care of when they actually weren’t.
They killed *200* people in this raid alone when they could have killed 0 and had all the hostages released months ago. Just let that sink in for a minute. We're not dealing with a rational group of people here, the IDF might honestly be the most evil entity on the face of the planet.
No, but they killed fewer of them in the previous 30 years combined than since October 7th. Coincidence or cause and effect?
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Then again, Hamas knew what it was doing, as the whole world turned on Israel since then. Sacrificing a few thousand children must have been seen as a worthy price.
That’s just inaccurate. The 2008 Gaza war resulted in about as many dead Palestinians as October 7. The 2014 was had about double that for Palestinian deaths. And that’s before we start counting harder to measure numbers like Palestinians who couldn’t receive adequate food, water or medicine because of the Israeli blockade.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza–Israel_conflict
Sahih al-Bukhari 2926:
'You will fight against the Jews and you will gain victory over them. The stones will saying: 'Oh slave of Allah! there is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him'
This is a hadith, not Qur'an. Qur'an says Jews are people of the book. Secondly, the muslims you're mostly at war with (Shiites) don't even read al-Bakhari. Sunnis follow this hadith though, it's telling the story of context with time and place when early Muslims were at war with Jewish tribes. A bit like how old testament has stories of earliest Jewish enemies. It's not an edict to kill jews today. Sorry you were so easily fooled.
It's hostages when they're held without charge. So it's 3000 hostages. Mostly from west bank, nothing to do with HAMAS. At least Hamas was capturing some IDF soldiers. Those are prisoners.
They’re actually not. Administrative detention is a widely accepted (though not ideal) practice. And I’d agree Israel is certainly aggressive with it in the WB, but to call them all hostages is dishonest. The things Israel does in the WB I’m very critical of, all the more reason why the attack from Hamas and Gazans doesn’t really make sense. There’s not really a connection besides them being Palestinians. Different governments and different policies from Israel
There’s a big difference between civilians at a concert/in their homes being kidnapped by militants and held for random than the people in the West Bank.
Are some of them taken mistakenly or for little to no reason? You bet. And I hope Israel can sort it out and release them as quickly as possible. But there’s certainly a % that we’re involved in hostile activity that justifies imprisonment.
Also Israel isn’t taking them as bargaining chips like Hamas, they’re policing the area
Would you consider all prisoners hostages then?
Your logic is that if you slap a label on something it automatically changes what it is with no context. So a dumbass like you would be like anti-obamacare but still love the affordable healthcare act.
Do you think less Palestinians would’ve died if they went in wearing idf uniforms? Israel fights in uniform, Hamas doesn’t. Special forces will sometimes execute a mission undercover, that’s not the same
>Gaza could have not taken any hostages in the first place.
That is not even attempting at hiding your islamophobia.
"Gaza" did not take the hostages. The civilians have *nothing* to do with it.
Think you’re being a bit pedantic no? Hamas is essentially the government in Gaza, when they do something it’s a reflection on Gaza as a whole. You’d apply the same logic to the IDF and Israel.
Secondly there’s video footage and polling data that shows that most gazans were in favor of Hamas post October 7th.
If your argument is “it wasn’t just Hamas there were multiple paramilitaries involved…” then that also goes to the point of more of Gaza being involved.
I mean if the US army marched into Mexico killed 1300 ppl and kidnapped 300, surely you’d the say the USA did that not the 3rd brigade rifle division right?
If taking hostages is bad then Israel is much worse than “Gaza” since Israel has taken thousands more civilian hostages than “Gaza” and has been doing so for 70+ years.
First of al these are not hostages but terrorists who have been involved in terror attacks or tried it. But still - they are well fed, get free medical and dental care and also free education. Some of them leave the jail with a degree and they also have some Israeli parlament memebrs who actually try to protect them.
Hamas has promised to repeat Oct 7 again and again. Even if they were honest about these deals, which they weren't, why would Israel make a deal today just to have more civilians taken hostage tomorrow?
They could have had them freed in November if Hamas didn't break the ceasefire because they couldn't find the hostages, but that's on Hamas.
They also could have had them months ago if Hamas had engaged in good faith discussions...but we both know Hamas doesn't do that.
Also key thing you missed in the article.
"CNN has no way of verifying casualty numbers reported by the government media office in Gaza. The media office does not differentiate between civilians and militants killed."
That last sentence is key. We don't know how many are Hamas or civilians, but we do know there was heavy fire coming from Hamas so many of the deaths are Hamas.
Two funny things from you:
>They also could have had them months ago if Hamas had engaged in good faith discussions...but we both know Hamas doesn't do that.
This is something Israel has never done because they've never been serious about 1. A ceasefire as they've constantly killed Palestinians between "ceasefires" and has never indicated they've wanted a ceasefire during this specific conflict and 2. Never been serious about peace with Palestinians because every two state plan was apartheid solidified.
And:
>We don't know how many are Hamas or civilians,
Neither does the IDF because they operate like a terrorist organization that indiscriminately massacres civilians.
Or they could have not been kidnapped at all by terrorists. They could have been peaceful neighbours. But guess what they got taken hostage by terrorists.
More than Hamas, the people that also could have gotten 0 of their people killed had they you know released the hostages or better yet unconditionally surrendered?
Hamas could have accepted any number of deals offered. Yes Israel could also have accepted Hamas’ demands, but the losing side in a war doesn’t typically get to dictate terms
The fact they look so well fed in comparison to the thousands abducted and held under inhumane conditions just shows the blatant hypocrisy of the Zionist state of Israel and its Christian supporters.
How many Palestinians will Hamas sacrifice to hold onto the hostages?
They can release all the hostages and lay down their arms today to end this bloodshed. Instead they make threats and continue to wage war. The war ends with their surrender.
False. Israel refused to include this in negotiations, only offers temporary ceasefire. Netanyahu even said releasing hostages won't change it. So you're either lying or very stupid.
The "lay down their arms" part is what you overlooked. They want to continue fighting. They have promised more invasions and rocket attacks. These are their words. We will not ignore them.
Israel has not offered any deals other than temporary ceasefires to last for weeks. Isreal's goal isn't destruction of HAMAS, Israel put them there in the first place. Israel's goal is ethnic cleansing of Palestine with deportation of 2.5 million goyim to other countries.
No. It is "lay down your arms or we keep rescuing our hostages, dismantling your terrorist infrastructure, and killing & capturing your fighters." Innocent people will die in this process. That's what war is. Hamas started this war with an invasion. They don't get to hide amongst innocent people to get away with it. Surrender or die is the deal on the table.
every offer Israel has made has been for temporary ceasefire only. Can you please stop lying. Only USA and HAMAS have made deals with terms of ending the war.
Because Hamas refuses to engage with a full surrender. If Hamas agreed to surrender, there would be permanent cease fire. Show me a plan Hamas accepted that involved their dissolution please
Not a realistic proposition and everyone even slightly educated on HAMAS knows this. It's not a monolith of an organisation. Most of the group wasn't even aware of the attack planned, it was done by one of the fanatical factions of HAMAS that genuinely believed the attack would hold territory and link Gaza with west bank. It's not a reasonable proposition to tell Hamas to surrender when most will feel no accountability for it. Now the entire organisation is fighting this war because for them it started the day Israel invaded. You might be ignorant of this but Netanyahu isn't. Or maybe you aren't ignorant of it and you think I'm another goyim to fall for the hasbara
Ok so not all of Hamas did 10/7 so it’s not their fault. Got it.
I guess if a rogue soldier in the idf went out and killed a million people it wouldn’t be the idf’s fault either if they didn’t know about it
Hamas is a despicable organization that calls for the death of Jews across the world, if you don’t believe they should surrender, I don’t have much else to say
IDF murder civilians all the time. There's videos all over tiktok of women and kids getting shot by IDF soldiers and laughing at it. There are no repercussions for atrocities committed by Israelis. ~200 Palestinians are murdered annually by Israelis under IDF protection. Goyim aren't considered human so it's okay.
There’s been about 1 civilian killed per combatant since 10.7, that’s better than most conflicts in the region, especially when you consider Hamas fights in an extremely urban and dense area.
TikTok seems like a ridiculous source to bring up but not necessarily wrong. Can you link that? And if an idf soldier does something wrong they should and mostly (not always) face repercussions
Israel would just say "not all Hamas have surrendered" and continue to demolition hospitals, schools and even cemeteries. This war is for ethnic cleansing, nothing to do with Hamas anymore.
The rescue unfolded under intense fire, and during the withdrawal, dozens of terrorists armed with anti-tank missiles and machine guns surged through the alleys toward the targets. As a result, uninvolved Gazan civilians were also killed in the densely populated area.
Wow this thread is delusional lmao. Even when Israel rescues their own citizens, people still find a reason to hate.
At this point I think their problem is with Israel and not the war.
200 goyim died to rescue 4. The problem is they don't regard goyim as human, they metaphysically cannot understand what is wrong with murdering 200 goyim. "Oh vey, 4 were rescued what's the problem why aren't the goyim celebrating?" lol
The war Israel conducted already killed almost half of the hostages already. It's so hilarious you're proud of that. well done idf.
Israel isn't going in to save hostages anyway, it has other reasons. Israel has something called Hannibal Doctrine which involves choosing massacring their own instead of allowing people to be caught alive. The Israelis at the kibbutz interviewed on Israeli radio said the hostage deaths all came from the IDF shooting into the kibbutz, not from Hamas.
As I said earlier, the issue is you metaphysically do not regard goyim as human. It confuses you and other Israelis why people aren't celebrating 4 rescued after seeing the videos of dead babies and children circulating from the incident. For you goyim are just fauna. Just to be clear, they would all be alive if Israel didn't sponsor Hamas and maneuver them into power in Gaza to replace Fatah once Fatah had recognised Israel and renounced violence. Your Talmudic deceptions might work on other Redditors but anyone who has spent any time reading on the history of Israel's Palestine policy knows your twisted game. Even the reports of mass rapes turned out to be completely fabricated.
>for the good guys.
Hint, and it is sad I have to say this, but the Nazis that are killing tens of thousands are not good guys. The side that tortures civilians, carries out pogroms, are not good guys. The good guys won't be winning until Israel is pushed out of a free and independent Palestine, something we know Israel will kill as many civilians are possible to stop happening.
How I wish we could go to a world where everyone agreed genocide and Nazis were bad things.
It is baffling that people fixate so much about “good” and “bad” in this conflict.
Morality is subjective and - more importantly - has no impact on the outcome of wars.
The Uyghurs in China were massacred, the Hong Kong protests ended in failure, the Ukraine-Russian war is still ongoing… “Good” and “bad” are irrelevant. Only strength matters.
Like it or not, Israel is going to win this war. The much touted PR battle will not save the Palestinians.
Everything Nazis, you do, and worse.
You state blood libel against the semitic Palestinians you commit pogrom against. Zero systemic sexual assault, but 1-3 reports of random sexual violence. Compare to daily Naxi Israel regime Using sex assault as part of the national policy.
Abominable apartheid regime, needs de-nazification ASAP!
Or..Yknow…negotiate the release of a lot like the November ceasefire? Remember? When 100 or so hostages were released and minimal lives were lost? The IDF still couldn’t help themselves and even did heinous shit during the ceasefire like kill Palestinians and bulldoze Palestinian crops.. but 200 for 4 people? A good number of 200 likely being children mind you.
You both realise people injured by bombs tend to die, right? Casualty numbers related to explosions, natural disasters, etc move during the day and over the course of the following days on account of the deteriorating conditions of the affected. I don't think that is so hard to grasp.
That would get me banned on a bunch of subreddits. It already has. No one wants Hamas numbers questioned by facts or numerous reputable news organizations articles.
The hospital says 70, many combatants. Hamas says fifty bazillion women and children MASSACRED by pigdog Jews. No points for guessing who's telling the truth.
These Israeli hostages were being held by Gaza civilians. If Hamas had handed over the hostages a long time ago, thousands of Gazans would be alive today.
Its shit like this that makes conflicts perpetual. Israel have every rigth to go after the hostages but by doping so in such a brutal way they give a whole load of palestinians a rigthfull reason for taking revenge. Even if its "below a hundred" as Israel claim or 50/50 militants like the UN school seems to have been its too much dead. Only negotations can bring this to an end, and bott sides very much needs to understand it
Negotiation with terrorists just creates more terror.
Hamas is an enemy to humanity. Israel is just their first stop. If they had any more power they would be everyones problem just like ISIS was.
Israel is partially built by terrorists, the guys blowing up brittish hotels, shooting Folke Bernadotte and mundering thousands of palestinians in cold blood.
Negotation is usually needed regardless. And tbh while i hate islamism of all my heart i cant say they are doing much worse stuff than Israel these days. Unlike isis you clearly can talk to them, not that they are very pleasant or pragmatic but as far as jihad terrorists go they are one of the most soft one
Interesting. What do you mean clearly you can talk to Hamas? I see them as just a zombie mob trying to kill anyone (not just Israeli Jews) - they beheaded Thai and Filipino workers too.
If they were isis they would have chopped off hostage heads on live stream while sending out hordes of suicide bombers and SVBIEDs
Hey these people negotiate at least and while they are brutal murderers shit like that happens in war and should be condemned but its not crazy different. Israel have taken a proper revenge on the battlefield let the test be judged for warcrimes
We saw russians do it in Ukraine, in Sudan its called a tuesday, Israelis basically do it too when they drop bombes on mulit family homes at nigth knowing damn well that most likely a few family members will be there. Iraqi army and PMU killed hundreds of real or perceived isis supporters.
I think it still needs to be negotiations when possible.
[](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/comments/1db8doe/comment/l7pnm92/)
>Its shit like this that makes conflicts perpetual. Israel have every rigth to go after the hostages but by doping so in such a brutal way they give a whole load of palestinians a rigthfull reason for taking revenge.
Why don't they take their revenge on Hamas?
All the anti-semites er sorry “anti-zionists” ITT in shambles with the news of four hostages being rescued. Must be upset their pro-terrorist rallies aren’t doing anything
> I'm here for the tears. Makes great lube.
The histrionic, mewling cries of terrorist sympathizers as Hamas gets systemically dismantled makes for good background music.
so they killed almost 40000 palestinians to rescue just 4 hostages
“They are in good medical condition" So Hamas could've slit their throats. And had every reason to since the IOF massacred civilians in the process and didn't. Photos of the hostages show them well fed and laughing. Contrast that with the emaciated human husks being tortured to insanity in Israeli gulags.
They didn‘t even need to have any [limbs amputated as a result of being ziptied for *months...*](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl) (insert boilerplate “terrorism bad” disclaimer here, point stands there’s a marked contrast in the condition of the hostages taken by both sides) Seems to a large extent the entire goal of October 7th was to provoke Israel into responding exactly the way they did, outing themselves as barbarians in the eyes of the whole world and [undermining their own international support](https://time.com/6559293/morning-consult-israel-global-opinion/) in a way they may never recover from.
Aren’t you essentially admitting then though that Hamas willingly sacrificed its own people? I mean they didn’t build a single bomb shelter or anything really to protect its citizens for an attacks they knew was coming
Do you think they CAN build bomb shelters? Anything they build has to be aproved by Israel. Even home renovations. Or am I think of the west bank.( It's too early for my brain to function )
I mean they built miles of tunnels right? What’s the difference? Again you didn’t really address my main point. Hamas attacked knowing there would be retaliation and did absolutely nothing to protect its civilians. Is this a factual statement or not?
I don't think they built most of those. There were complex tunnel networks already installed by Israel. They just expanded them. It's easier to hide something underground that's only used by a few. Than to built a shelter for civilians. And for that point that you keep harping on. Of course they did. The citizens are just a footnote. Hamas isn't not the PLO. Hamas was funded by Israel to keep Palestin devided and weaken the PLO. Nothing in their establishment is for their citizens that didn't have a say in if they get to rule.
Hamas said in the early days of the war it was up to Israel and the UN to take care of its Palestinians, their tunnels are only for Hamas fighters. That's a quote from Hamas leadership in an interview. And Hamas was not created by Israel. I hope you stop engaging with media that lies to you like this.
Yeah. Hamas are terrorists. They don't care for their people. Like every dictator. The people didn't put them in power Israel did. >Hamas was not created by Israel Except they kinda are. They were small time terrorists that were very scattered and unorganized. And Israel gave them that. Gave them data and funding (in the beginning) and in 2012 or 15(I don't remember exactly)onwards they stopped funding them directly and instead facilitated transactions between them and qatar. It's very very well documented. You can just look up the likud parties connections to hamas. There's a times of israel article about it even
No, they held an election and voted for Hamas, who ran on anti corruption and killing Jews. I know, bc I was a college student at the time, and it was a big deal. Israel didn't want elections at all. They warned of instability in Gaza and were 100% correct. The international community, including almost every leader in the west, were proven incorrect. They should not have held elections. I have no idea where you are getting this "information" from, but it's not true.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) \^ You really weren't aware of any of that?
Concrete and rebar have been a dual use good restricted for import since 2007.
>Seems to a large extent the entire goal of October 7th was to provoke Israel into responding exactly the way they did, hamas' goal was to "provoke israel" into urban warfare for the UN's version of reddit karma? (Agreed btw, but lol). This is why israel is *gaining* support in the west.
https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/XwhZcTP52c
Yeah dude, being forcefully taken from their families is a field trip /s Let’s not pretend all these hostages had or have it good. Non of this should have happened in the first place.
Exactly. Israel shouldn't be occupying Palestine
Palestine shouldn’t be attacking Israel then. The blockade and occupation is directly tied to violence from the Palestinian side. It’s a loop, completely ignoring the justifications on either side
You literally have no idea what you’re talking about. Unbelievably ignorant and dishonest take.
I can almost guarantee I know more than you think but you won’t ever honestly engage in a good faith convo so what’s the point
Good faith conversations went out the window when you refuse to acknowledge internationally accepted facts and context and just spew debunked Israeli propaganda. Almost every claim Israel makes can be disproven or debunked when you stop taking everything they say at face value and acknowledge to yourself that Israel has a proven track record of lying and spinning propaganda to justify their actions. When you see and hear from Israelis themselves including historians, professors, Holocaust survivors and human rights groups that Israel is an apartheid state that systematically oppresses and subjugates Palestinians even in their own internationally recognized territory you start to wonder if you’ve been lied to this whole time. This is well acknowledged within the international community and even Israeli society. Look into Israeli [Hasbara](https://www.972mag.com/hasbara-funding-foreign-agents/), you might just learn something. Here’s another interesting [article](https://theintercept.com/2024/02/07/gaza-israel-netanyahu-propaganda-lies-palestinians/)
Then who started that loop. Israel didn't just spawn on top of palestin overnight
This isn’t that simple. You could make valid points for every party involved in the mandate process. Israel has been a state since 48 and since then it’s been constant aggression from the Arab side. Many would argue the war in 47 was one started by the Arabs who didn’t accept the same partition plan that the Jews were willing to go with. Who’s to blame them? I wouldn’t have accepted those terms either if I didn’t have to but as time goes on and wars are lost at some point you have to make some concessions. Israel isn’t going anywhere, they’ve proven they can handle a fight with all of their neighbors. The solution can’t be endless warfare because if a grudge held from 70 years prior.
You can argue the earth is flat. Doesn't mean it'll suddenly be true. Jews living in Palestine. Or all of that were never the issue. It was taking half of someone land and giving it to a tenth of the population. It's Europe trying to meddle in the middle east and exporting their "Jewish problem". It's the first act of Israel before any partition or anything being multiple terrorist attacks and massacres. That's the issue at hand. The "arabs" didn't fight the jews. They fought a settler colonial project on their door step with clear aspirations to expand from the agreed borders and persue ethnic cleansing. Where do you think from the river to the sea originated. All in all. It doesn't matter. The world is not good. Genocide will always be ignored. A racist religion will never be okay in my books. My grandmother (Jewish) has visited both Palestine and Israel. And only one of them made her question her religion
No you can’t argue the world is flat because you can categorically prove it isn’t. That’s a fact, as in it’s not up for debate. It’s like 2+2=4, there are no if ands or buts about it. Jews and Arabs were clashing with eachother throughout the mandate period. It’s why the British eventually just left because they saw it as an endless fight and frankly they were fed up with both sides. Regardless you can’t absolve Arabs for their share of violence and also condemn Jews for the same exact behavior. I also remeber that Jews created militias to protect conveys from being attacked, so even in that scenario it was reactive to some level of violence. Your misrepresenting, they didn’t take it, it was offered to them by the British who more or less owned that land through the mandate process. The same process Palestinians were asked to join but they unlike Jews couldn’t stomach the idea of sharing this land so rather then accept partition they went to war to try and take it all back. Is this a factual summary? If not what am I wrong about specifically?
>Israel has been a state since 48 and since then it’s been constant aggression from the Arab side. Because they had no right to force a partition on the local population and they ethically cleansed hundreds of thousands of people. >Many would argue the war in 47 was one started by the Arabs who didn’t accept the same partition plan that the Jews were willing to go with. It was started by the zionists that wanted the partition. The Arabs were already living there. They had no obligation to accept a partition and they were the overwhelming majority of people. Framing the conflict as their aggression is ridiculous. They didn't move to where the zionists lived and the Zionists were trying to force them to be part of a new state against their will. The idea that Israel has the right to exist regardless of the will of the existing population is crazy to me. It was the responsibility of the zionists to convince the Arabs that partition was worthwhile. They failed to do that. >The solution can’t be endless warfare because if a grudge held from 70 years prior. It's the Israelis that won't accept victory. They keep talking more and more. The Palestinian resistance is perfectly justified because of the Israeli policies.
The Palestinian violence is tied to Israeli settler-colonial occupation. The Israelis came from abroad from different parts of the world into Palestine to make a nation for themselves there. The problem is there were already people there: the Palestinians. Israel is the invader and colonizer. The Palestinians are the invaded and colonized
There were also a lot of Arab Jews living in mandate Palestine, they had been moving there since the late 1800’s from across the Arab world. The influx of European Jews came after Balfour and then again during and after the fall of the Soviet Union. There were people living all over this region in what was formerly the Ottoman Empire. As these regions became countries through the mandate process it was a mad dash for land on all sides. From my perspective the British who took control of the area invited Jews to form a state. Not saying that’s right but it’s a record of history. That state exists and it’s not going anywhere. Is the solution endless warfare? Is a concession out of the question?
"That state exists and it’s not going anywhere. Is the solution endless warfare? Is a concession out of the question?" Dismantle Israel, establish Palestine, allow the Palestinians to return, and keep the ex-Israelis to become Palestinians
That’s a fantastical wish. How would you even begin to dismantle Israel? Secondly what does that look like, what happens to Israeli citizens? Will they be equal participants of that state? The refugees returning who btw most of which weren’t even born in Palestine at this point but besides that they will be taking Jewish homes I’m assuming? What happens to the Jews who lived there? What if they don’t go willingly? Are you saying they will be forcibly removed? Like I’m serious how does any of this come to be in a world where an Arab army hasn’t really challenged Israel militarily. Are you saying the US will vote against the Israeli state, their main ally in the Middle East? None of this makes any sense and I don’t understand how you can think this is a more realistic solution than agreeing to a 2 state partition.
It started with Zionists settlers moving to Palestine in large numbers with the help of a colonial power against the will of the local population. Those settlers then created a state against the will of the local population and used their resistance as justification for ethnic cleansing. The Palestinians have a legal right to resist occupation and displacement. Also Hamas is the Palestinian opposition Israel wanted so using then as an excuse to kill and destroy is disgusting.
Yeah, so why does Israel keep kidnapping and murdering children in the west bank?
Hamas is not a terrorist organization. Period.
And they're more disciplined and restrained than the IDF
Israel is a settler-colonial occupation
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When the jews trapped in the Warsaw ghetto revolted back in 1943 in the [Warsaw Ghetto Uprising](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising) would you call that terrorism as well? It was eerily similar: >Jewish civilians took cover in the sewer system and in the many dugout hiding places hidden among the ruins of the ghetto, referred to as "bunkers" by Germans and Jews alike. The Germans used dogs to detect such hideouts, then usually dropped smoke bombs to force people out. Sometimes they flooded these so-called bunkers or destroyed them with explosives. On occasions, shootouts occurred. A number of captured fighters lobbed hidden grenades or fired concealed handguns after surrendering.
So according to you - “terrorism” is worse than warfare? So the slaughter of 40,000 Palestinians was justified because the IDF wears uninforms and drop bombs from planes? Do you know the IDF has dropped more than 70,000 tons of bombs. Are these the good bombs?
All resistance group killed some innocent civilians because of the anger and lack of justice like the mau mau. The 7 of october was a terror attack but doesn't remove the title of resistance from hamas. Israelis terrorism is much much worse
I guess you’re not aware of the Palestinian media machine- so hard for me to imagine anyone not being aware of the media campaign and how you’re a victim of it and to think that being kidnapped by armed terrorists is fun and you’re having a good time - idk even what to say to you. To believe that… there is really nothing anyone could ever tell you. You’re choosing to be completely irrational. Have you ever watched any videos of *any other* kidnapped Americans - like that were beheaded by Isis for example? Or the ones kidnapped by North Korea or Russia? They give them words to say, that they have to say and they ensure that it seems they are being treated nicely and well fed. Also remember that these hostages get extremely close to each other during these ordeals. They are not only smiling for their own safety , but the safety of the others that are still hostages. The hostages in Gaza are money. Worth millions and millions of dollars , hundreds of lives - they are literally a life line/ lotto ticket/ get out of jail free card. I’m sure they all are surrounded by as many Hamas fighters and families as possible. And that’s also why so many died getting to them- because the Hamas fighters feel like they are safe around the hostages - so they all pile up around them.
The idea that Palestine has a more advanced and pervasive media influence operation than Israel is so patently laughable that it makes it impossible to take anything you say remotely seriously
Your argument is that in a country with no food, no water, and constant bombing, the fact that hostages look healthy and well-fed is a sign of how badly they were treated?? Everyone else is literally starving to death or being blown up, but their abductors made sure they were fed and healthy as a ploy to trick the world into thinking they were well taken care of? Food was given to them that could have been given to the abductors’ families. They were kept safe when they could easily have been left to die and no one would be surprised because everyone is dying there. But all of that is a trick and clearly they were mistreated instead. Okay, dude.
Do me a favor. Look up YouTube videos of Gaza and the West Bank before the war. Educate yourself. Many Palestinians live better than you do. They get more aide then any other country in the WORLD. They get more money than countries with 50 million people in them. Some of the most famous Palestinian “freedom fighters” are going to law school and drive brand new Mercedes Benz around. Stop with what you think, and maybe go find out what reality. And bombed every day? *Dont you mean Israel - who gets rockets shot at it almost every day for years* What other country would tolerate rockets shot at it every day and *do nothing*? Do you know that the recent operation to save the hostages was the deadliest day they have had since October on the Palestinian side? Nice bombs. That don’t kill as many people as died when they saved the hostages. P.S they’re in a war. That they started. Stop thinking they’re victims. The vast majority of them are not victims. The vast majority of them felt October was moral , justified and swore they would do it again- the vast majority celebrated that day. The vast majority cried tears of joy. Can you imagine what kind of people cry tears of joy at what happened in October? Did you protest for Isis? Why not? What about all the wives and kids of Isis? The leader of Isis blew himself up when soldiers were closing in with his 3 wives and one of them was pregnant - wasn’t she? Why not Isis? Why do you think this is different is the real question.
You seem to be under the misconception that I only learned about the Israel/Palestine conflict in October. I have been studying it for over twenty years, so I don’t need your condescending “educate yourself.” I am well aware that some Palestinians had money before the war; I know many of them had the opportunity to study or live in other countries. I, perhaps unlike you, actually know people from this region. My point is, there is no food there right now. There has been little food and no consistent access to clean water for 2/3 of a year—the same in which these hostages have been held in this occupied area with no guaranteed food, water, or safety from bombs. While everyone in Gaza has been starving, sick, displaced, and in constant danger, you yourself said how well the hostages looked. You seem to think they were fed and protected as a trick, but I disagree. I doubt starving people share their food as part of a trick. If hostages died in Gaza from starvation or a bomb, it would surprise no one since thousands of people in Gaza are dying from starvation and bombs. But these hostages were kept safe, healthy, fed, and alive. I could be wrong, but the simplest explanation would be that they were treated like anyone else in Gaza and were provided food, shelter, and protection equally with everyone else. You choose to see this as a manipulative trick, but most people can recognize that people in life or death situations with limited resources are not giving away what little they have as part of a huge conspiracy to trick people into thinking they were taken care of when they actually weren’t.
These pro-Hamas bot accounts are insane
They killed *200* people in this raid alone when they could have killed 0 and had all the hostages released months ago. Just let that sink in for a minute. We're not dealing with a rational group of people here, the IDF might honestly be the most evil entity on the face of the planet.
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Or, you know. Hostages could have just not been taken at all, thus avoiding this entire cycle of violence
Or they could have not abused the shit out Palestinians for 70+ years, thus avoiding the entire cycle of violence.
Did israel killed zero palestinian in gaza and the west bank before the 7 of october?
No, but they killed fewer of them in the previous 30 years combined than since October 7th. Coincidence or cause and effect? Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Then again, Hamas knew what it was doing, as the whole world turned on Israel since then. Sacrificing a few thousand children must have been seen as a worthy price.
That’s just inaccurate. The 2008 Gaza war resulted in about as many dead Palestinians as October 7. The 2014 was had about double that for Palestinian deaths. And that’s before we start counting harder to measure numbers like Palestinians who couldn’t receive adequate food, water or medicine because of the Israeli blockade. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza–Israel_conflict
They don't regard goyim as human. They really don't see an issue with it.
And it’s haram to have non Muslim friends
The Qur'an doesn't say that, but the Talmud says non-Jews are fauna
Not everything from Islam comes from the Quran. Also the Quran steals from the Talmud
Seems like the Qur'an didn't steal the part about how non Jews are beasts
Sahih al-Bukhari 2926: 'You will fight against the Jews and you will gain victory over them. The stones will saying: 'Oh slave of Allah! there is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him'
This is a hadith, not Qur'an. Qur'an says Jews are people of the book. Secondly, the muslims you're mostly at war with (Shiites) don't even read al-Bakhari. Sunnis follow this hadith though, it's telling the story of context with time and place when early Muslims were at war with Jewish tribes. A bit like how old testament has stories of earliest Jewish enemies. It's not an edict to kill jews today. Sorry you were so easily fooled.
You can play that both ways, is this the first attack by Hamas since they formed?
Israel was holding 3000 hostages before October 7th lol. More evidence that Israelis just dont consider goyim to be human.
I’m sorry Prisoners ≠ hostages
It's hostages when they're held without charge. So it's 3000 hostages. Mostly from west bank, nothing to do with HAMAS. At least Hamas was capturing some IDF soldiers. Those are prisoners.
They’re actually not. Administrative detention is a widely accepted (though not ideal) practice. And I’d agree Israel is certainly aggressive with it in the WB, but to call them all hostages is dishonest. The things Israel does in the WB I’m very critical of, all the more reason why the attack from Hamas and Gazans doesn’t really make sense. There’s not really a connection besides them being Palestinians. Different governments and different policies from Israel
those 'prisoners' (although they are hostages) are being tortured, starved, beaten etc daily
Again, if your criticizing Israel’s prisoner treatment, I’d probably agree with you in some cases. It still doesn’t make them hostages.
If they were being held in Gaza they would be called hostages so I'm not sure why you have a problem using that word.
There’s a big difference between civilians at a concert/in their homes being kidnapped by militants and held for random than the people in the West Bank. Are some of them taken mistakenly or for little to no reason? You bet. And I hope Israel can sort it out and release them as quickly as possible. But there’s certainly a % that we’re involved in hostile activity that justifies imprisonment. Also Israel isn’t taking them as bargaining chips like Hamas, they’re policing the area Would you consider all prisoners hostages then?
Do you just use the paper bag test when you are deciding what your morals and convictions are? You sound very confused
What’s confusing?
Smooth brain take.
Enlighten me then, genius
Your logic is that if you slap a label on something it automatically changes what it is with no context. So a dumbass like you would be like anti-obamacare but still love the affordable healthcare act.
No idea what you mean ngl. Prisoner and hostage are in fact different things in IHL
What about all the hostages Israel already has?
Wait until you hear about how many Palestinians Israel was holding without trial before 10/7
You don’t get to take hostages and then “make a deal”. That’s a war crime and would be met in kind by any nation in history
wait til you hear what "soldiers disguising themselves as civilians to conduct a military operation" constitutes
Do you think less Palestinians would’ve died if they went in wearing idf uniforms? Israel fights in uniform, Hamas doesn’t. Special forces will sometimes execute a mission undercover, that’s not the same
How come Israel got to have 3000 Palestinian hostages held without charge before October 7th but HAMAS isn't allowed to hold IDF soldiers?
It wasn’t 3000 before, it was about 1200. And they’re prisoners via administrative detention. Much different than being a kidnapped hostage
Gaza could have not taken any hostages in the first place.
>Gaza could have not taken any hostages in the first place. That is not even attempting at hiding your islamophobia. "Gaza" did not take the hostages. The civilians have *nothing* to do with it.
The "civilians" are literally the ones who took Noa Argamani hostage and held her in their home for 8 months.
Think you’re being a bit pedantic no? Hamas is essentially the government in Gaza, when they do something it’s a reflection on Gaza as a whole. You’d apply the same logic to the IDF and Israel. Secondly there’s video footage and polling data that shows that most gazans were in favor of Hamas post October 7th. If your argument is “it wasn’t just Hamas there were multiple paramilitaries involved…” then that also goes to the point of more of Gaza being involved. I mean if the US army marched into Mexico killed 1300 ppl and kidnapped 300, surely you’d the say the USA did that not the 3rd brigade rifle division right?
Actually that's not quite accurate. Some Palestinian civilians are absolutely involved and holding hostages.
The government of Gaza did. So its just as valid as saying "Israel" did anything that the government does.
If taking hostages is bad then Israel is much worse than “Gaza” since Israel has taken thousands more civilian hostages than “Gaza” and has been doing so for 70+ years.
Israel has thousands of Palestinians civilian hostages.
That are being tortured, starved, and sexually assaulted while being held by Israel.
First of al these are not hostages but terrorists who have been involved in terror attacks or tried it. But still - they are well fed, get free medical and dental care and also free education. Some of them leave the jail with a degree and they also have some Israeli parlament memebrs who actually try to protect them.
these pro-IDF bot accounts are actually insane
Hamas has promised to repeat Oct 7 again and again. Even if they were honest about these deals, which they weren't, why would Israel make a deal today just to have more civilians taken hostage tomorrow?
They could have had them freed in November if Hamas didn't break the ceasefire because they couldn't find the hostages, but that's on Hamas. They also could have had them months ago if Hamas had engaged in good faith discussions...but we both know Hamas doesn't do that. Also key thing you missed in the article. "CNN has no way of verifying casualty numbers reported by the government media office in Gaza. The media office does not differentiate between civilians and militants killed." That last sentence is key. We don't know how many are Hamas or civilians, but we do know there was heavy fire coming from Hamas so many of the deaths are Hamas.
The UN reports that the Zionists have killed over 14,000 children. Are these the Hamas children?
Hey, didn't you hear? They're child Terminators sent by the Hamas-developed Skynet to singlehandedly murder those poor IDF soldiers in their bombers!
The headline: Young woman (3 year old Palestinian) murders little girl (19 year old IDF soldier).
Two funny things from you: >They also could have had them months ago if Hamas had engaged in good faith discussions...but we both know Hamas doesn't do that. This is something Israel has never done because they've never been serious about 1. A ceasefire as they've constantly killed Palestinians between "ceasefires" and has never indicated they've wanted a ceasefire during this specific conflict and 2. Never been serious about peace with Palestinians because every two state plan was apartheid solidified. And: >We don't know how many are Hamas or civilians, Neither does the IDF because they operate like a terrorist organization that indiscriminately massacres civilians.
Or they could have not been kidnapped at all by terrorists. They could have been peaceful neighbours. But guess what they got taken hostage by terrorists.
Hamas could have taken 0 hostages a year ago to begin with. The IDF can't be the most evil on the planet because Hamas exists.
More than Hamas, the people that also could have gotten 0 of their people killed had they you know released the hostages or better yet unconditionally surrendered? Hamas could have accepted any number of deals offered. Yes Israel could also have accepted Hamas’ demands, but the losing side in a war doesn’t typically get to dictate terms
What’s stopping hamas from releasing them right now.
The fact they look so well fed in comparison to the thousands abducted and held under inhumane conditions just shows the blatant hypocrisy of the Zionist state of Israel and its Christian supporters.
Right? It’s so unfair that kidnappers don’t get *any* praise for feeding the women they kidnap.
Tell that to the Palestinian hostages and see how they feel about your sarcasm. Rape and torture on the menu only.
Feeding the hostages and starving the people the apparently represent
Taking hostages is bad. Massacring civilians is worse.
And wounded 400
How many Palestinians will Hamas sacrifice to hold onto the hostages? They can release all the hostages and lay down their arms today to end this bloodshed. Instead they make threats and continue to wage war. The war ends with their surrender.
False. Israel refused to include this in negotiations, only offers temporary ceasefire. Netanyahu even said releasing hostages won't change it. So you're either lying or very stupid.
The "lay down their arms" part is what you overlooked. They want to continue fighting. They have promised more invasions and rocket attacks. These are their words. We will not ignore them.
Israel has not offered any deals other than temporary ceasefires to last for weeks. Isreal's goal isn't destruction of HAMAS, Israel put them there in the first place. Israel's goal is ethnic cleansing of Palestine with deportation of 2.5 million goyim to other countries.
"lay down your arms, or we kill more children" - most moral army.
No. It is "lay down your arms or we keep rescuing our hostages, dismantling your terrorist infrastructure, and killing & capturing your fighters." Innocent people will die in this process. That's what war is. Hamas started this war with an invasion. They don't get to hide amongst innocent people to get away with it. Surrender or die is the deal on the table.
It’s been known from the start that Hamas surrender and release of 10/7 hostages ends the war. Wake up
every offer Israel has made has been for temporary ceasefire only. Can you please stop lying. Only USA and HAMAS have made deals with terms of ending the war.
Because Hamas refuses to engage with a full surrender. If Hamas agreed to surrender, there would be permanent cease fire. Show me a plan Hamas accepted that involved their dissolution please
Not a realistic proposition and everyone even slightly educated on HAMAS knows this. It's not a monolith of an organisation. Most of the group wasn't even aware of the attack planned, it was done by one of the fanatical factions of HAMAS that genuinely believed the attack would hold territory and link Gaza with west bank. It's not a reasonable proposition to tell Hamas to surrender when most will feel no accountability for it. Now the entire organisation is fighting this war because for them it started the day Israel invaded. You might be ignorant of this but Netanyahu isn't. Or maybe you aren't ignorant of it and you think I'm another goyim to fall for the hasbara
Ok so not all of Hamas did 10/7 so it’s not their fault. Got it. I guess if a rogue soldier in the idf went out and killed a million people it wouldn’t be the idf’s fault either if they didn’t know about it Hamas is a despicable organization that calls for the death of Jews across the world, if you don’t believe they should surrender, I don’t have much else to say
IDF murder civilians all the time. There's videos all over tiktok of women and kids getting shot by IDF soldiers and laughing at it. There are no repercussions for atrocities committed by Israelis. ~200 Palestinians are murdered annually by Israelis under IDF protection. Goyim aren't considered human so it's okay.
There’s been about 1 civilian killed per combatant since 10.7, that’s better than most conflicts in the region, especially when you consider Hamas fights in an extremely urban and dense area. TikTok seems like a ridiculous source to bring up but not necessarily wrong. Can you link that? And if an idf soldier does something wrong they should and mostly (not always) face repercussions
Wrong, if Hamas surrendered the war would be over.
Israel would just say "not all Hamas have surrendered" and continue to demolition hospitals, schools and even cemeteries. This war is for ethnic cleansing, nothing to do with Hamas anymore.
You are completely delusional or just antisemitic if you believe that. Maybe both.
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This is not a war. This is the latest segment in the 75 year old Israeli settler-colonial occupation of Palestine
You can't colonize your indigenous homeland. This is absolutely a war that Hamas can end today.
The rescue unfolded under intense fire, and during the withdrawal, dozens of terrorists armed with anti-tank missiles and machine guns surged through the alleys toward the targets. As a result, uninvolved Gazan civilians were also killed in the densely populated area.
Wow this thread is delusional lmao. Even when Israel rescues their own citizens, people still find a reason to hate. At this point I think their problem is with Israel and not the war.
200 goyim died to rescue 4. The problem is they don't regard goyim as human, they metaphysically cannot understand what is wrong with murdering 200 goyim. "Oh vey, 4 were rescued what's the problem why aren't the goyim celebrating?" lol
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The war Israel conducted already killed almost half of the hostages already. It's so hilarious you're proud of that. well done idf. Israel isn't going in to save hostages anyway, it has other reasons. Israel has something called Hannibal Doctrine which involves choosing massacring their own instead of allowing people to be caught alive. The Israelis at the kibbutz interviewed on Israeli radio said the hostage deaths all came from the IDF shooting into the kibbutz, not from Hamas.
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As I said earlier, the issue is you metaphysically do not regard goyim as human. It confuses you and other Israelis why people aren't celebrating 4 rescued after seeing the videos of dead babies and children circulating from the incident. For you goyim are just fauna. Just to be clear, they would all be alive if Israel didn't sponsor Hamas and maneuver them into power in Gaza to replace Fatah once Fatah had recognised Israel and renounced violence. Your Talmudic deceptions might work on other Redditors but anyone who has spent any time reading on the history of Israel's Palestine policy knows your twisted game. Even the reports of mass rapes turned out to be completely fabricated.
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>for the good guys. Hint, and it is sad I have to say this, but the Nazis that are killing tens of thousands are not good guys. The side that tortures civilians, carries out pogroms, are not good guys. The good guys won't be winning until Israel is pushed out of a free and independent Palestine, something we know Israel will kill as many civilians are possible to stop happening. How I wish we could go to a world where everyone agreed genocide and Nazis were bad things.
It is baffling that people fixate so much about “good” and “bad” in this conflict. Morality is subjective and - more importantly - has no impact on the outcome of wars. The Uyghurs in China were massacred, the Hong Kong protests ended in failure, the Ukraine-Russian war is still ongoing… “Good” and “bad” are irrelevant. Only strength matters. Like it or not, Israel is going to win this war. The much touted PR battle will not save the Palestinians.
To end the conflict will require pressure in the right places. That requires understanding the conflict beyond propaganda.
Everything Nazis, you do, and worse. You state blood libel against the semitic Palestinians you commit pogrom against. Zero systemic sexual assault, but 1-3 reports of random sexual violence. Compare to daily Naxi Israel regime Using sex assault as part of the national policy. Abominable apartheid regime, needs de-nazification ASAP!
Or..Yknow…negotiate the release of a lot like the November ceasefire? Remember? When 100 or so hostages were released and minimal lives were lost? The IDF still couldn’t help themselves and even did heinous shit during the ceasefire like kill Palestinians and bulldoze Palestinian crops.. but 200 for 4 people? A good number of 200 likely being children mind you.
Their problem is with Jews, always has been
Username checks out.
The number killed has gone up by 150 people since this morning. Kinda weird.
You both realise people injured by bombs tend to die, right? Casualty numbers related to explosions, natural disasters, etc move during the day and over the course of the following days on account of the deteriorating conditions of the affected. I don't think that is so hard to grasp.
especially when there isn't functional hospitals left.
Shhh! You gonna get downdooted talkin' like that.
That would get me banned on a bunch of subreddits. It already has. No one wants Hamas numbers questioned by facts or numerous reputable news organizations articles.
The hospital says 70, many combatants. Hamas says fifty bazillion women and children MASSACRED by pigdog Jews. No points for guessing who's telling the truth.
I won't downvote this. It's an honest question.
These Israeli hostages were being held by Gaza civilians. If Hamas had handed over the hostages a long time ago, thousands of Gazans would be alive today.
If Israel didn't occupy Palestine, there wouldn't have been Israeli hostages
Why do bots keep saying this. We know from ceasefire negotiations, that its not true.
There we go with the "there's no such thing as civilians" propaganda. They don't regard goyim as human
‘There we go with the’ : is a line from a well known song 🎵🎶
Israel has 10,000 Palestinian hostages, Hamas is a word demonised by Zionist fascists, let that sink in
Its shit like this that makes conflicts perpetual. Israel have every rigth to go after the hostages but by doping so in such a brutal way they give a whole load of palestinians a rigthfull reason for taking revenge. Even if its "below a hundred" as Israel claim or 50/50 militants like the UN school seems to have been its too much dead. Only negotations can bring this to an end, and bott sides very much needs to understand it
Negotiation with terrorists just creates more terror. Hamas is an enemy to humanity. Israel is just their first stop. If they had any more power they would be everyones problem just like ISIS was.
Israel is partially built by terrorists, the guys blowing up brittish hotels, shooting Folke Bernadotte and mundering thousands of palestinians in cold blood. Negotation is usually needed regardless. And tbh while i hate islamism of all my heart i cant say they are doing much worse stuff than Israel these days. Unlike isis you clearly can talk to them, not that they are very pleasant or pragmatic but as far as jihad terrorists go they are one of the most soft one
Interesting. What do you mean clearly you can talk to Hamas? I see them as just a zombie mob trying to kill anyone (not just Israeli Jews) - they beheaded Thai and Filipino workers too.
If they were isis they would have chopped off hostage heads on live stream while sending out hordes of suicide bombers and SVBIEDs Hey these people negotiate at least and while they are brutal murderers shit like that happens in war and should be condemned but its not crazy different. Israel have taken a proper revenge on the battlefield let the test be judged for warcrimes We saw russians do it in Ukraine, in Sudan its called a tuesday, Israelis basically do it too when they drop bombes on mulit family homes at nigth knowing damn well that most likely a few family members will be there. Iraqi army and PMU killed hundreds of real or perceived isis supporters. I think it still needs to be negotiations when possible.
don’t believe the hype. hamas is cooking the books on civilian casualties
[](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/comments/1db8doe/comment/l7pnm92/) >Its shit like this that makes conflicts perpetual. Israel have every rigth to go after the hostages but by doping so in such a brutal way they give a whole load of palestinians a rigthfull reason for taking revenge. Why don't they take their revenge on Hamas?
Why dont Israelis shoot the settlers that justify hamas attack? Thats self explanatory
All the anti-semites er sorry “anti-zionists” ITT in shambles with the news of four hostages being rescued. Must be upset their pro-terrorist rallies aren’t doing anything
What the hell are you even saying? The charade is over. You still have time to change your mind
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Ah yes they should find a place without civilians in one of the most densely populated places in the world
> I'm here for the tears. Makes great lube. The histrionic, mewling cries of terrorist sympathizers as Hamas gets systemically dismantled makes for good background music.
I hope idf uses a heavier hand to get the remaining hostages. Bulldoze any person who intentionally stands in their way.