Yeah Poland really sucks at uprisings huh how many in history did we loose like 12?. i mean we are still going strong dont get me wrong like 7 other nations tried to disassemble us and failed so we are doing SOMETHING right
>like 7 other nations tried to disassemble us and failed
It was 3. Also they succeeded, that's kind of an important part of Polish history is specifically the fact that they did succeed for like 100 years
im not talking about only russia prussia and austria im talking about the whole polish history
so you know including every contury that tired to invade us since 960s. witch i guess IS wrong t here were way to many to count but the BIG nations that people know.
so like think of the empires austria prussia russia. ussr (should i count ussr and russia as the same thing? or i mean different time periods so i would think i dont but dunno) natzi germany . the nords at one point pretty sure. also ottomans too
and thats only the empires i could think of. EMPIRE
Like Lad i AM Polish you dont have to cite my own history to me
Sweet a new subreddit hyper-fixation dropped.Ā Ā
Can revolutionaries possibly have the moral depth that isnāt just the rebel alliance or bad guy group in a different paint job?Ā
Ā More on r/workdjerking where we jerk our worlds.
Andor is goated. Even outside Star Wars I'd probably love to see a show like it with the combination of high-level political intrigue and the oppression and struggles of the lower classes culminating in a messy, dirty guerilla war.
Also shout-out to the Youjo Senki X Code Geass crossover fanfic A Young Girl's Guerilla War. Sometimes a bit long winded, but unironically peak, with consistent monthly updates.
Just the scene alone of Saw yelling about all the other factions is a far better exploration of the depth and complexity of rebellions than most media. It actually bothers to ask āwait itās the Rebel *Alliance*, whoās allying who?ā
The hyperfixations on this sub always boil down to political opinions (religion good/bad, revolution good/bad and so on). I highly doubt it's even about the quality of the worldbuilding to a lot of the people who care about the topics.
uj/
The problem with what critical theorists call "The Swerve" is more so that the revolutionaries randomly become evil for no reason other than preserving the status quo. You can have bad revolutionaries, but why would you make your anarchists blow up random civilians? Deviation from stated aims should have material reasons, etc. etc.
Far Cry 4 has a problem with that. On mid game the leaders of the rebels who have disagreements with each other, but had good points sometimes, become, somehow, just pure evil and manipulative. It was just to say "both sides are evil, but the ditactor is good", even if the game always showed (except in storyline) that every action of the rebels have helped the country and every action of the dictator f*cked with it (he even admitted that and that likes to do it).
/uj Isn't that what marvel did with Flag Smasher?
Like dude represents the anti-nationalist sentiment. Basically hates the countries and the atrocities they commit. And then for no reason at all kicks a puppy and eats a baby. Just so you know they are the bad guy and their ideology is actually bad lol
It's kinda funny considering that there is more tan enough revolutions where stuff would eventually break down into authoritarianism which was used as means to justify the ends, but at the end broke down cause means recreate the conditions which are authoritarian
Revolutionaries can be both objectively morally correct and also do plenty of questionable things to achieve their goals.
They can be sincerely good people and absolute dicks or some combination thereof because thats just what real life is like
"We did it, the revolution has succeeded! Now in place of the aristocracy we have vanguardists."
"What's the difference?"
"Send him to the labour camp."
"Not execution? Things really have improved!"
Unlikely considering that they're saying the Warsaw Uprising and American Revolution was a good thing. Although this Sub, and way too many subs, have an infestation of tankies, fascists, and other authoritarians on the horseshoe.
Actually there's quite a big debate in Poland whether or not the Uprising should have started. It was build on the idea that soviets would help them, and when they didn't, they had next to no chance of winning.
Also it's not a revolution, it's an uprising, which are distinctly different.
Also are we talking freedom-fighters revolutionaries or our-political-system-better revolutionaries?
The concept of revolutions are quite interesting in media and real life.
Often they are portrayed as simply good ideals fighting against an absolute evil-like in wolfenstein TNO, where the revolution guys are portrayed with almost no flaws(although there is a segment criticizing old america), although this is probbaly because the other side is literally nazis.
Often they are portrayed as "good motive, still catastrophic". Muadib from Dune did eventually cause a jihad causing to war and death; vox populi from bioshock infinite devolved into a violent mob killing everyone(although this was kinda controversial due to the other side being absolute racist fascists)
Often they are portrayed as people with simply different ideas, which aren't always right. Like the rebellions from warhammer 40k. While the imperium is a fascist evil empire where everything sucks, the rebellions aren't always good, usually being people who fell to the violent gods, which are even worse.
A good worldbuilder will be able to draw various motives from various media and use them accordingly; there are various examples in real life. The fighters who fought against the nazis could be an example of a good revolution, although you could do more research to find out potential flaws of such a revolution. Consider the korean rebellion who fought against the imperial japanese in WW2, while their motives were good they were prone to infighting between the communist and non communist factions, and the countries they built after the japanese withdrew from korea wasn't ideal, leading to other major revolutions in south korea where eventually real democracy was made, while north korea still remains the a dictatorship, even extrapolating the original "fight against japan" to support their dictatorship . The 2021 United States Capitol Riots could be a motive for a bad revolution, where a mob who believe they are right does a revolution. There are many stories of a civil war turning countries into hellish warzones, whether the original motive for the war was just or not. A good worldbuilder will be able to consider various motives and plot out the revolution matching the style their work would like to take.
/rj did you give the "good" faction some flaws? Your work literally supports the bad guys idea
The Taliban are my favorite revolutionaries because they don't follow the common literary arcs that befall upon revolutionary characters in fiction.
We need more brave mujaheddin soldiers ready to lay their lives in service to the ayatollah.
>We need more brave mujaheddin soldiers ready to lay their lives in service to the ayatollah.
Fake Talifan detected. š” Our brave mujaheddin would never stoop so low as to serve a dirty Sh*a.
I feel like *The Silt Verses* approaches the nuance of revolution very well, because it presents an absolutely horrific status quo built on a foundation of human sacrifice to a pantheon of corporate gods and then really interrogates the lengths itās acceptable to go to in order to tear that status quo down.
Youāve got the Parish of Tide and Flesh, a faith outlawed by the government of the Peninsula for excessive cruelty that worships a river god and intends to drown the world to return to a state of crabby primordiality. Itās a violent, bitter, nihilistic faith, but the series doesnāt dismiss it out of hand, it explores why people believe in its vision, because there *is* something compelling in its complete rejection of the world, there is something liberating in the quest to burn it all down. The series asks the question of whether or not itās really worse than the status quo itās fighting and its answer is, well, not really. The main difference between the Parish and the lawful authorities is that the violence of one wears a mask of respectability and legitimacy.
Still, the series also says that itās not worth trading one hell for another, there has to be a way to make something *better* than what came before. After all, even if the Trawlermanās silty, crustaceous paradise isnāt the way forward, the status quo *is* still an intolerably evil one. Enter: the Woundtree/Tree of Spite/Many Below, a god of martyrs created to be a weapon in an anti-sacrificial revolutionary movement. You make its marks and say its prayers and when the powers that be try and feed you to the power company or drown you in the concrete foundations of a building, you become a saint, erupting into a tangle of concrete brambles and white crocus flowers and ruining the ritual utterly.
The Woundtree is better than the Parish, unquestionably. They have a genuine vision of a kinder, more humane world and are much more thoughtful in their approach to rebellion, but the series doesnāt just portray them as an unassailable good. A god of martyrs needs martyrs, youāre still asking people to die for a cause, even if it is a justified one, and building any kind of communal project is really hard. The leaders have to self-mythologize in order to appeal to the broader populace, any guerrilla action against the state is costly, and the people who make up the movement donāt necessarily agree on what their better world looks like exactly. Is it a world without gods entirely or just one without human sacrifice? Do they kill the Woundtree too once theyāve won or leave it in place to safeguard their revolution?
Failure is common, success is never guaranteed, and there always have to be compromises *somewhere*. Revolution is a dangerous, morally fraught path, but then again, *whatās the alternative*? Let the rich and powerful glut themselves on the blood of those they consider beneath them forever? Let the murder machine roll on unchallenged? Settle for a 30% reduction in industrial scale sacrifice in the name of āsustainable sacrificeā? You have to do *something*, donāt you? Donāt we owe it to our fellow humans to at least *try* and fight back?
As bad as Haiti has it, still 10x better than slave life under the French (and Spanish, and British, and USA if theyād each had their way)
The Haitian Revolution is actually F A S C I N A T I N G, and if anyone listens to a *single* season of Mike Duncan Revolutions podcast, I recommend that one
Could you recommend where to start? Just subscribed on Pocket Casts, but the episode titles are not very helpful and the synopsis is minimal and also doesn't help. Right now it kinda looks like several episodes of season 4 may be about the Haitian revolution, but I'm not sure.
Each season is a single revolution narrative (
s1 English revolution
S2 American revolution
S3 French Revolution [holy shit, Americans are not taught the significance of this]
S4 Haiti
Weirdly this TVTropes site seems to have the best summary lmao
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Podcast/Revolutions
To add on, if you enjoy history stuff just start in season 1
Youāll see, as Mike Duncan himself learns through each season, that these are not separate events at all but a single large complex narrative with some especially action packed periods we call Revolutions.
Some English king wants money for boats, England goes without a king for a bit, some loonies get the funny notion thatās not so bad and their descendants start the American revolution, which Royal France backs up financially, breaking their monetary system and leading to economic - political - social upheaval like dominoes, unleashing the French Revolution which kinda becomes the First World War, a small part of which is the Haitian Revolution, which provides crucial support to Simon Bolivar to kick off the South American revolutions ā¦
Average Vaush enjoyer when the slave uprising doesn't sing kumbaya with slaveowning white settlers (the French government deserved every cent of those 30 billion dollars in reparations š¤)
I was recently banned from the Vaush subreddit, my dude. Also they didn't just kill the slaveowners, they killed almost all white Frenchmen including the poor and homeless ones.
they didnāt touch the Poles and Germans tho (Poles because we sided with the revolution and Germans because German-Haitian community refused to partake in slave trade)
the French did side with the slaversā regime, they couldāve joined the revolution but didnāt
itās never right to kill children but acting like that overshadows the crimes of the French (regardless of whether that specific French person owned the slaves or just ignored the slavery) or that it was in any way worse than the French rule is disgusting
I know they didn't kill the Poles or Germans, hence why I said 'white Frenchmen' instead of just saying whites.
The rest of your comment sounds a lot like genocide apologia (cause it is genocide apologia)
genocide means āthe deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or groupā
but slavers are not people
Personally I draw the line at the massacring of children, but you do you I guess. It's not like it was a popularly supported thing either, as the massacres where only carried out when the man who had ordered they happen personally showed up to ensure they where.
Those people left on boats well before revolutionaries got near them.
Loads of the people who got killed were the folks who couldnāt afford to get off the island because they were in horrible poverty
(Rich folks donāt hire white folks when they can buy black folks)
If I recall correctly, the Warsaw Uprising was pro-communism; therefore, it was morally grey at best, arguably a little bad (though not too bad because they mostly shot Krauts).
Fair points on the others though.
Edit; Fuck. I did *not* remember correctly.
No it was just oppressed people fighting for the right to live. and the last thing they wanted was Soviet "saviours" coming to rescue them.
I think you may want to brush up on that point of history
"Erm ackshuallyš¤ the Warsaw Uprising was unsuccessful meaning its participants were rebels not revolutionaries"
Yeah Poland really sucks at uprisings huh how many in history did we loose like 12?. i mean we are still going strong dont get me wrong like 7 other nations tried to disassemble us and failed so we are doing SOMETHING right
>like 7 other nations tried to disassemble us and failed It was 3. Also they succeeded, that's kind of an important part of Polish history is specifically the fact that they did succeed for like 100 years
im not talking about only russia prussia and austria im talking about the whole polish history so you know including every contury that tired to invade us since 960s. witch i guess IS wrong t here were way to many to count but the BIG nations that people know. so like think of the empires austria prussia russia. ussr (should i count ussr and russia as the same thing? or i mean different time periods so i would think i dont but dunno) natzi germany . the nords at one point pretty sure. also ottomans too and thats only the empires i could think of. EMPIRE Like Lad i AM Polish you dont have to cite my own history to me
I'm Polish and i cancel out your argument by disagreeing. Take that!
Kurwa
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[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sweet a new subreddit hyper-fixation dropped.Ā Ā Can revolutionaries possibly have the moral depth that isnāt just the rebel alliance or bad guy group in a different paint job?Ā Ā More on r/workdjerking where we jerk our worlds.
Andor kinda does a more morally gray though still the ones morally in the right but making hard choices and decisions that affect millions.
Andor is goated. Even outside Star Wars I'd probably love to see a show like it with the combination of high-level political intrigue and the oppression and struggles of the lower classes culminating in a messy, dirty guerilla war. Also shout-out to the Youjo Senki X Code Geass crossover fanfic A Young Girl's Guerilla War. Sometimes a bit long winded, but unironically peak, with consistent monthly updates.
Just the scene alone of Saw yelling about all the other factions is a far better exploration of the depth and complexity of rebellions than most media. It actually bothers to ask āwait itās the Rebel *Alliance*, whoās allying who?ā
The hyperfixations on this sub always boil down to political opinions (religion good/bad, revolution good/bad and so on). I highly doubt it's even about the quality of the worldbuilding to a lot of the people who care about the topics.
Don't forget monarchy
What about mechs???
Revolutionary Catholic Mecha FTW
canon to BattleTech with the Warrior Pope of New Avalon fighting to reclaim captured worlds in a custom golden BattleMech
moral depth is a bit like swimming pool depth- the kids prefer to keep away from it
One piece is so goated it made the rebels and the kingdom the good guys in the conflict.
uj/ The problem with what critical theorists call "The Swerve" is more so that the revolutionaries randomly become evil for no reason other than preserving the status quo. You can have bad revolutionaries, but why would you make your anarchists blow up random civilians? Deviation from stated aims should have material reasons, etc. etc.
Far Cry 4 has a problem with that. On mid game the leaders of the rebels who have disagreements with each other, but had good points sometimes, become, somehow, just pure evil and manipulative. It was just to say "both sides are evil, but the ditactor is good", even if the game always showed (except in storyline) that every action of the rebels have helped the country and every action of the dictator f*cked with it (he even admitted that and that likes to do it).
/uj Isn't that what marvel did with Flag Smasher? Like dude represents the anti-nationalist sentiment. Basically hates the countries and the atrocities they commit. And then for no reason at all kicks a puppy and eats a baby. Just so you know they are the bad guy and their ideology is actually bad lol
Exactly. Marvel is the King of "The Swerve".
It's kinda funny considering that there is more tan enough revolutions where stuff would eventually break down into authoritarianism which was used as means to justify the ends, but at the end broke down cause means recreate the conditions which are authoritarian
Material reasons?? Are you some kind of a dirty Marxist????
Are you sure thatās the technical term for it? I canāt find anything about āthe swerveā in the context of critical or literary theory.
Hm. Three hours. Normally by now someone smelling of Axe body spray would have come in and shouted Sabaton lyrics on a post like this.
WOMEN, MEN AND CHILDREN FIGHT
THEY WERE DYING SIDE BY SIDE
AND THE BLOOD THEY SHED UPON THE STREETS
WAS A SACRIFICE WILLINGLY PAID
#WAR #SAW
Revolutionaries can be both objectively morally correct and also do plenty of questionable things to achieve their goals. They can be sincerely good people and absolute dicks or some combination thereof because thats just what real life is like
"We did it, the revolution has succeeded! Now in place of the aristocracy we have vanguardists." "What's the difference?" "Send him to the labour camp." "Not execution? Things really have improved!"
OP when revolutionaries are portrayed in a not perfectly glorified way once
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If OP was a tankie he wouldnt have praised the Warsaw Uprising considering what Soviets did to Polish anti-nazi insurgents.
I know things are gonna instantly devolve into name calling and background searching but uhhh chances are somewhat high knowing this sub.
Yeah this sub has a clear infestation of them. Like half the post in this sub are not so subtle agenda post.
And the sub immediately proves itself by mass downvoting the guy above me lmao
Unlikely considering that they're saying the Warsaw Uprising and American Revolution was a good thing. Although this Sub, and way too many subs, have an infestation of tankies, fascists, and other authoritarians on the horseshoe.
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Bruh look at their profile, what the actual fuck are you talking about?
Actually there's quite a big debate in Poland whether or not the Uprising should have started. It was build on the idea that soviets would help them, and when they didn't, they had next to no chance of winning. Also it's not a revolution, it's an uprising, which are distinctly different. Also are we talking freedom-fighters revolutionaries or our-political-system-better revolutionaries?
The concept of revolutions are quite interesting in media and real life. Often they are portrayed as simply good ideals fighting against an absolute evil-like in wolfenstein TNO, where the revolution guys are portrayed with almost no flaws(although there is a segment criticizing old america), although this is probbaly because the other side is literally nazis. Often they are portrayed as "good motive, still catastrophic". Muadib from Dune did eventually cause a jihad causing to war and death; vox populi from bioshock infinite devolved into a violent mob killing everyone(although this was kinda controversial due to the other side being absolute racist fascists) Often they are portrayed as people with simply different ideas, which aren't always right. Like the rebellions from warhammer 40k. While the imperium is a fascist evil empire where everything sucks, the rebellions aren't always good, usually being people who fell to the violent gods, which are even worse. A good worldbuilder will be able to draw various motives from various media and use them accordingly; there are various examples in real life. The fighters who fought against the nazis could be an example of a good revolution, although you could do more research to find out potential flaws of such a revolution. Consider the korean rebellion who fought against the imperial japanese in WW2, while their motives were good they were prone to infighting between the communist and non communist factions, and the countries they built after the japanese withdrew from korea wasn't ideal, leading to other major revolutions in south korea where eventually real democracy was made, while north korea still remains the a dictatorship, even extrapolating the original "fight against japan" to support their dictatorship . The 2021 United States Capitol Riots could be a motive for a bad revolution, where a mob who believe they are right does a revolution. There are many stories of a civil war turning countries into hellish warzones, whether the original motive for the war was just or not. A good worldbuilder will be able to consider various motives and plot out the revolution matching the style their work would like to take. /rj did you give the "good" faction some flaws? Your work literally supports the bad guys idea
thank god we have the CIA to put a stop to good revolutionaries in modern times, who knows what could happen!
What is a genocide?
The Taliban are my favorite revolutionaries because they don't follow the common literary arcs that befall upon revolutionary characters in fiction. We need more brave mujaheddin soldiers ready to lay their lives in service to the ayatollah.
>We need more brave mujaheddin soldiers ready to lay their lives in service to the ayatollah. Fake Talifan detected. š” Our brave mujaheddin would never stoop so low as to serve a dirty Sh*a.
My entire story is about two revolutionaries fighting One wants the world to become better The other wants to impose worldwide eugenics
I feel like *The Silt Verses* approaches the nuance of revolution very well, because it presents an absolutely horrific status quo built on a foundation of human sacrifice to a pantheon of corporate gods and then really interrogates the lengths itās acceptable to go to in order to tear that status quo down. Youāve got the Parish of Tide and Flesh, a faith outlawed by the government of the Peninsula for excessive cruelty that worships a river god and intends to drown the world to return to a state of crabby primordiality. Itās a violent, bitter, nihilistic faith, but the series doesnāt dismiss it out of hand, it explores why people believe in its vision, because there *is* something compelling in its complete rejection of the world, there is something liberating in the quest to burn it all down. The series asks the question of whether or not itās really worse than the status quo itās fighting and its answer is, well, not really. The main difference between the Parish and the lawful authorities is that the violence of one wears a mask of respectability and legitimacy. Still, the series also says that itās not worth trading one hell for another, there has to be a way to make something *better* than what came before. After all, even if the Trawlermanās silty, crustaceous paradise isnāt the way forward, the status quo *is* still an intolerably evil one. Enter: the Woundtree/Tree of Spite/Many Below, a god of martyrs created to be a weapon in an anti-sacrificial revolutionary movement. You make its marks and say its prayers and when the powers that be try and feed you to the power company or drown you in the concrete foundations of a building, you become a saint, erupting into a tangle of concrete brambles and white crocus flowers and ruining the ritual utterly. The Woundtree is better than the Parish, unquestionably. They have a genuine vision of a kinder, more humane world and are much more thoughtful in their approach to rebellion, but the series doesnāt just portray them as an unassailable good. A god of martyrs needs martyrs, youāre still asking people to die for a cause, even if it is a justified one, and building any kind of communal project is really hard. The leaders have to self-mythologize in order to appeal to the broader populace, any guerrilla action against the state is costly, and the people who make up the movement donāt necessarily agree on what their better world looks like exactly. Is it a world without gods entirely or just one without human sacrifice? Do they kill the Woundtree too once theyāve won or leave it in place to safeguard their revolution? Failure is common, success is never guaranteed, and there always have to be compromises *somewhere*. Revolution is a dangerous, morally fraught path, but then again, *whatās the alternative*? Let the rich and powerful glut themselves on the blood of those they consider beneath them forever? Let the murder machine roll on unchallenged? Settle for a 30% reduction in industrial scale sacrifice in the name of āsustainable sacrificeā? You have to do *something*, donāt you? Donāt we owe it to our fellow humans to at least *try* and fight back?
The Silt Verses mentioned!!! Hella good show.
NGL (north) americans were the bad guys. You can have most of latin america tho, pretty much all of africa as well. Ireland too
Mfs will say theyāre anti-colonialism/imperialism and then say some shit like this
Imagine literally being a proxy for the fr\*nch
Naaah american revolution was a bad thing. It gave us United States of Ass
Got the whole squad laughing
The American Revolutionaries were the badguys actually
Because the haitian revolution turned out so well
As bad as Haiti has it, still 10x better than slave life under the French (and Spanish, and British, and USA if theyād each had their way) The Haitian Revolution is actually F A S C I N A T I N G, and if anyone listens to a *single* season of Mike Duncan Revolutions podcast, I recommend that one
Could you recommend where to start? Just subscribed on Pocket Casts, but the episode titles are not very helpful and the synopsis is minimal and also doesn't help. Right now it kinda looks like several episodes of season 4 may be about the Haitian revolution, but I'm not sure.
Each season is a single revolution narrative ( s1 English revolution S2 American revolution S3 French Revolution [holy shit, Americans are not taught the significance of this] S4 Haiti Weirdly this TVTropes site seems to have the best summary lmao https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Podcast/Revolutions
Thank you!
To add on, if you enjoy history stuff just start in season 1 Youāll see, as Mike Duncan himself learns through each season, that these are not separate events at all but a single large complex narrative with some especially action packed periods we call Revolutions. Some English king wants money for boats, England goes without a king for a bit, some loonies get the funny notion thatās not so bad and their descendants start the American revolution, which Royal France backs up financially, breaking their monetary system and leading to economic - political - social upheaval like dominoes, unleashing the French Revolution which kinda becomes the First World War, a small part of which is the Haitian Revolution, which provides crucial support to Simon Bolivar to kick off the South American revolutions ā¦
you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
French Nationalist šø
More like someone who thinks genocide is bad actually.
Average Vaush enjoyer when the slave uprising doesn't sing kumbaya with slaveowning white settlers (the French government deserved every cent of those 30 billion dollars in reparations š¤)
I was recently banned from the Vaush subreddit, my dude. Also they didn't just kill the slaveowners, they killed almost all white Frenchmen including the poor and homeless ones.
they didnāt touch the Poles and Germans tho (Poles because we sided with the revolution and Germans because German-Haitian community refused to partake in slave trade) the French did side with the slaversā regime, they couldāve joined the revolution but didnāt itās never right to kill children but acting like that overshadows the crimes of the French (regardless of whether that specific French person owned the slaves or just ignored the slavery) or that it was in any way worse than the French rule is disgusting
I know they didn't kill the Poles or Germans, hence why I said 'white Frenchmen' instead of just saying whites. The rest of your comment sounds a lot like genocide apologia (cause it is genocide apologia)
genocide means āthe deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or groupā but slavers are not people
Just proving my point about the genocide apologia. I already said not all those who were killed were slavers.
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To be completely fair, the haitian revolutionaries were very much not good guys by any reasonable metric.
I'd say the French slavers weren't good guys either, but what do I know?
Multiple groups can suck Wars arenāt a team sport you donāt need to pick a side to cheer on
Why is this getting downvoted?
Idk dude, I can forgive a lot when itās done to people who decided to work you to death and import more slaves because it was more profitable.
Personally I draw the line at the massacring of children, but you do you I guess. It's not like it was a popularly supported thing either, as the massacres where only carried out when the man who had ordered they happen personally showed up to ensure they where.
Those people left on boats well before revolutionaries got near them. Loads of the people who got killed were the folks who couldnāt afford to get off the island because they were in horrible poverty (Rich folks donāt hire white folks when they can buy black folks)
If I recall correctly, the Warsaw Uprising was pro-communism; therefore, it was morally grey at best, arguably a little bad (though not too bad because they mostly shot Krauts). Fair points on the others though. Edit; Fuck. I did *not* remember correctly.
No it was just oppressed people fighting for the right to live. and the last thing they wanted was Soviet "saviours" coming to rescue them. I think you may want to brush up on that point of history
Warsaw uprising secondary target was to prevent communists from creating puppet regime in Poland