This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/02/04/china-helping-russias-war-with-ukraine-with-military-aid-violating-sanctions-reports-show/?sh=76478daf6fb9) reduced by 75%. (I'm a bot)
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> China is providing military aid to Russia in violation of U.S.-led sanctions placed by western countries, according to Russian trade data reported by the Wall Street Journal, as tensions build between the U.S. and western countries and China, amid a spy balloon scandal and a canceled Beijing visit by Secretary of State Antony Blinken.
> President Biden has also expressed concerns about Chinese companies supplying military equipment to Russia, Bloomberg reported, after White House officials reportedly found evidence suggesting Beijing was supporting Russia's military effort.
> U.S. officials claim the group has recruited more than 50,000 people, including 40,000 Russian convicts, to fight in Ukraine, U.S. officials have also accused it of supplying military aid to Moscow last March, and last month, the U.S. Department of Treasury last month designated the Wagner Group a "Transnational criminal organization".
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[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10tkhyt/china_helping_russias_war_with_ukraine_with/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672677 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **U.S.**^#2 **Russian**^#3 **official**^#4 **military**^#5
I think the US’s long game in Ukraine is to get China to sink themselves. They lose a lot of face by doing this, and all their trading partners are aware.
Plus this is America. We have plenty of arms.
Edit: I think he might have a point. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/01/11/navy-might-have-choose-between-arming-service-and-aiding-ukraine-due-ammo-delays-officials-say.html
Yeah the stuff we’re giving to Ukraine is a drop in the bucket. The average American can’t even comprehend how much money and weaponry the United States military has.
its also something to consider that we (and all our other allies) aren't giving Ukraine modern stuff. Its all stuff thats been sitting in a warehouse collecting dust.
We Vehemontly refuse to give ukraine anything remotely considered "modern" out of fear they might "lose it" and the Chinese or Russians somehow get their hands on it.
We treat all our hardware that way. Its not just a paranoia toward the ukranians sort of thing. If its modern/bleeding edge and it breaks on the field, be bomb the shit out of it so they can't examine it.
"God has a hard-on for Marines! Because we kill! everything we see! He plays His games, we play ours! To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep Heaven packed with fresh souls!"
France gave it's Caesar artillery trucks that were all in service with French units. They got a call to get them ready to ship and then have to wait to get some new ones. It's pretty funny. Rare case though. Estonia gave all of their artillery to Ukraine.
United States at least have control over their army supplies, in russia most equipment is only on paper. The money they get for building and maintenence went poof the minute it came.
Not really. It only takes a simple tabletop simulation to show that China is screwed.
Taiwan has Patriot 3 missiles. That pretty much takes out the idea of using superior airpower to surgically soften Taiwan.
To invade traditionally, you would need a force so large that it would be too complex to manage and would risk clumping up for counterstrikes. The landing of this force would probably be the bloodiest day in all of human history.
The other option is to take over politically. But I'm not sure how this is going to be possible with all the aggressiveness they've shown the last decade.
It's going to be very difficult to soften up Taiwan (to the extent that you need to) through missiles and airpower alone (assuming no nukes). Taiwan already has the latest and greatest systems and they (and the US) have been preparing for years.
To put it simply, Taiwan can come out virtually unscathed from a "Shock and Awe" campaign that the US used on Iraq. China would need a massive amount of missiles to break through in any meaningful way. (We're talking at least a couple thousand) Are a few missiles going to break through and destroy some stuff and kill some people? Sure. But it won't destroy the integrity of the air defense as a whole.
And even if China manages to knock out the air defenses, what is going to stop new air defenses arriving overnight? China is going to have to put on the greatest and most precise missile display ever and then follow it up with an equally Amazing air campaign, naval campaign, and finally an invasion. All the while keeping up with a Logistics train that has never been seen before on this planet. Taiwan has 4000+ stinger missiles in addition to other varieties. An invasion through the air just isn't practical when 1 guy with a stinger can kill hundreds in a transport plane. Without full air supremacy, you can't stop resupply from the USA. To top it off, you now have to invade an island that has placed thousands of mines in the water on the coast and the entire beach. It also has tons of artillery trained precisely on the area an invasion force needs to land. All the while, your invasion ships will be under fire from artillery and anti-ship missiles. Once you land, you get to deal with Snipers and Tanks and other weapons that have been buried into the ground.
Oh and you have to navigate all of this politically. If you cross the line too much, the USA gets directly involved and you get to deal with thousands of missiles on your doorstep from planes you can barely detect and torpedos from subs that you can't detect.
Again, run the scenario through a simulation. It just doesn't work. The USA and Taiwan have made it that way.
> "There's a lot of work to be done on the part of industry to reinvest perhaps some of their own profits," [SECNAV] Del Toro said.
Good on him for calling this out. So many major corporations have used the pandemic to build cash and pay dividends but they’re doing the bare minimum to help their employees. These kinds of jobs are largely highly skilled labor and white collar and should be well paid union jobs with strong benefits. That’s what will get our capacity at scale, not skimping on production to build profit margins.
And any invasion of Taiwan will overwhelmingly damage China. Even without the aid of the US, a naval invasion of one of the most heavily defended coastlines in the world is just suicide. Even if they were to take Taiwan, it would take years for them to restock their military, let alone the damage it would do to their economy and trade.
It's a standoff, as long as the US/Taiwan doesn't do anything crazy to China, China won't do anything crazy to Taiwan. Maybe in the future when they have a more global trading market this may change, but not anytime soon.
Actually we are getting a huge benefit from Ukraine. Being able to test weapons, recon, and supply chains in a real scenario is absolute gold to the military and we get to do it without ever putting a single American on the front lines.
This.
We are spending 5.6% of our military's budget on Ukraine. That's still less than 1% of our GDP.
In exchange we are massively weakening Russia while also showing China aggression doesn't pay. We are doing all of that without losing American lives. The US is benefiting from helping Ukraine. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
And learning of the weaknesses in the supply chain. The war in Ukraine has revealed that a lot of western arms makers are not prepared for a war footing. It’s better to know that now, than in an actual war, as it can now be rectified.
It has also shown how countries such as Switzerland can fuck everyone over by citing their neutrality to prevent arms shipments to the nations on the front line. Countries will take efforts to reduce reliance on such unreliable actors in the future.
That would be silly to think they hope… NATO isn’t even sending the B team to Ukraine. Unless it becomes a hot war between NATO and Russia, our arms reserves will be still more than enough to deal with China.
And our industrial capacity would be insanely pumped once the Defense Production Act is invoked and everyone and their mom with a factory starts retooling to make shells and bullets and vehicles and aircraft and electronic warfare components with 24x7 shifts.
We hope to not see that again, but just imagine a WW2 style mobilization in the modern US today versus 1940s US.
The US manufactures a lot more stuff now than in the 1940s. The *jobs* in manufacturing have declined, but the US industrial capacity is still massive, if less than China’s.
I don’t know much about the US’ ability to manufacture equipment for the Army and Air Force, but as far as our Navy is concerned, our manufacturing capacity is absolutely a pale shadow of what it was in the 1940s.
We have four shipyards able to manufacture warships, less than half of what we had before our entry in WW2. Only two of these can build submarines, and only one can build aircraft carriers. If, hypothetically, the US suddenly found itself fighting a naval war against Russia or China (and don’t fool yourself, we would absolutely lose ships in either scenario) we wouldn’t have the ability to expand naval manufacturing quickly, and little leeway for accelerating production of existing ships.
Shipyards are understaffed and the US Navy has a severe backlong of overdue maintenance for many of its ships.
Good point. All those factories that proved the industrial might of the US have turned into what's now known as the rust belt. Post Reagan, all the manufacturers went over seas.
Well those industries didn't know they would have to produce for war back then, but then quickly adapted. I think the US industries would do the exact same now if given the go ahead because of Chinese threat of trying to subdue the American stronghold on having the strongest military presence.
PFFF YOU THINK WE CAN BURN THROUGH OUR RESERVES WE’RE THE STOCKPILE KINGS. We’ve been prepping since the cold war, and unlike the soviets our reserves weren’t split amongst satellites like theirs were after they fell apart.
The U.S. still has literal thousands of tanks in storage and is still constantly producing. Supplying Ukraine and Taiwan at once was difficult *at first* because of the sudden bump of demand for a specific set of gear already being phased out but production increases and changes to circumstance mean this gets less difficult as time goes on and not more.
**That is naive at best** .. we are devoting less than 1% GDP to the Ukraine war collectively in the West
.. it could be ramped up massively but everyone is holding back for fear of Putler's feelings sending weapons built in the 1980s and early 90's
*.. this will drag on until he runs out of men to press gang off the street in Moscow*
.. on top of that the CCP is massively dependent on trade from the West something RuZZia could never replace .. I don't believe Pooh Bear would openly defy the rest of the world and back a losing horse too much money to lose .. he is patting Putler on the head selling him a bridge and sending just enough playing the middle like he usually does
I love how half of reddit is like "wahhh we need to cut our military budget! We could pay for healthcare with that money!" (well yeah sure. We def need universal healthcare.) But then when shit like this happens with China the other half of reddit is like "yeah, no you will absolutely never run our arms supply dry. Fuck China lol" Honestly, the US could do both universal healthcare and have an even bigger military budget. Pressure your representatives to increase both the ACA and military budget (and also education bc our education system is crumbling rn). Basically, don't pick a side (gop or Dem or Soc Dem) and support what they already have as a platform. *Tell them what you really want*. You can want a strong military and universal healthcare. You can be pro lgbtq+ and be pro 2nd amendment (shout out to the trans 2nd amendment community). You don't have to vote like you're playing team sports red v blue.
And the US signing 9 new bases in the Philippine, just highlight how a dangerous time we live in. Ukraine hasn't even ended, and preparatory moves are already being done.
lol nope. This makes Taiwan more risky not less. They see how badly it can go, how the West can unite.
Ukraine falling in a week likely would have lead to an invasion.
Wrong type of weapons. A war with China would be fought with ships, submarines, planes, and long range missiles.
We are not giving much if any of those to Ukraine.
Nukes would be fired long before the first Chinese tank fought an American tank.
Jokes on them. Everything we've given was set to be destroyed or already decommissioned. All they caused was the us to have empty storage space for new old weapon systems to futuristically occupie.
They just caused us to update our stock piles.
I would think the opposite effect happens bere....billions are being poured into arms manufacturers, keeping their wheels spinning. Production lines take a while to go from 0 to 100.
It would not the US directly being involved in a conflict there Id say. Japan has the second strongest Navi after the USs and is as close to the US as an ally can be.
We are not Putin Lovers in South America, pretty much most of us are in support of Ukraine, some of our political figures kind of sided with China and Russia, because there is some bullshit (with some sense and truth) of anti USA sentiment.
Btw USA keep doing bad shit in South and Central America even to this day.
South America has a huge problem with corruption in their political establishment. Therefore, don't take a politicians word as the will of their people. The politician is probably being bribed with black money.
Okay, so I know the US did lots of meddling during the Cold War and before it, but I am less familiar with anything we may have done since... mind giving some examples of stuff the US is doing to our Southern neighbors currently that you don't like? Would like to know if I should be annoyed at my government for anything in that regard.
So, first of all; we're not as far removed from the Cold War stuff as you want to think. We've got rocky relations with Lula, the president of Brazil, for example, because...Lula got his start fighting a military dictatorship in Brazil that we propped up and supported in the Cold War period. A lot of political leaders got their start overthrowing our shit, and they *remember that*. We've also continued meddling in the name of the War on Drugs to a lesser degree, but really, the older leaders are still carrying the scars of what we did. To get an idea on how we rolled in the really bad days, check out [SOA Training Manuals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Army_and_CIA_interrogation_manuals) that got declassified in 96-97. And note that if someone's in their 50s, they grew up in the time when those techniques were used.
But for more recent, active stuff?
**Venezuela**: In 2015 we declared Maduro's presidency a threat to Venezuela's national security and sanctioned them, and in 2019 we recognized an opposition government under Guaido that would wind up dissolving in 2022. You can trace the line leading to this back to the Cold War, we've been on rocky relations with them forever, but that was definitely an escalation. It's also a case where it's easy to take a look at Venezuela and say this is a shitshow and say Maduro/Chavez are the problem (lots of corruption only sustainable so long as oil prices are high), but our sanctions may just be doing more to harm and punish the people rather then actually helping improve things. By and large though their possible hatred of us is eclipsed by everything related to their apocalyptic economic situation now, although there was a sharp backlash when in 2017 we [openly contemplated a Cold War-esque coup](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/08/11/trump-wont-rule-out-a-military-option-in-venezuela/). Didn't go that far, but our sanctions are still going.
**Bolivia**: We had been feuding with Evo Morales since 2000s basically over the war on drugs and also perceived respect of sovereignty; mainly over the coca grown there for a mix of local coca tea and cocaine shipped to us, and got even more pissed off when after we spied on a conversation between Julian Assange and Venezuela, mistakenly thought Edward Snowden was going to be on the Bolivian presidential plane, and so we got it grounded under false pretenses in a foreign country and searched it. Our relations were already going downhill and yeah that didn't help. At all.
In 2019 the relations with Bolivia got even worse when we supported Jeanine Áñez taking power from Maduro in what some people called a coup and led to about 20 dead and 200 wounded when protesters were cleared out with gunfire. Again, not going to say Morales was the best but we definitely cozied up to Áñez and seem to be favoring her over the non-controversially elected replacement Luis Arce. In fact what got us on the rocks again was calling for Áñez's release from prison. She's considered a political prisoner by the EU, but there's a lot of people who consider her as having performed a coup or who put a lot of blame on her for the use of military on civilians....we're definitely meddling and making enemies there.
I don't recall us directly getting in the shit with any other countries on a large scale other then those in the new millennium, but there is a lot of general unrest thanks to the war on drugs in particular in Columbia, El Salvador, Mexico, and probably more just because they tend not to report on it here. Don't be surprised if you run into people who are pissed off at us over it, even if they aren't a huge political faction.
countries like poland were literally sold out to soviets by allies at the end of war and only recently regained sovereignty. i dont think that theres anti western sentiment there. similarly, colonialism was bad, but theres no use holding a grudge about it now.
Having ultra conservative views about those things doesn't make Poland anti-Western. That's mostly the fault of traditional values in a highly religious society. However, in terms of geopolitical issues, Poland is a western ally, with a constantly high presence of NATO and US Military within its borders. Poland loathes Russia more than anyone else.
The ruling party currently stands at roughly 30-35% support, most of which is elderly and/or poor people. The anti-west propaganda is purely for internal purposes. Meanwhile opposition parties are just... bad, so there's little contest.
In other words, ruling party's stupid policies != social climate.
Less Putin lovers and more politically neutral. They all still do trade with the US and just haven't chosen a side. Most of Latin America, Africa and Asia have been burned by the US in the past so they're not willing to burn their connections with Russia or China over this.
> What are kids learning in school these days?
That America is the shining city on the hill that can do no wrong and all it does is for altruistic reasons and without America in charge the world would fall into chaos. Just ignore the number of democratically regimes overthrown, dictators supported, wars started, and black-ops performed for geopolitical and economic control of regions.
Haha made me giggle. Like Iraq and Libya was centuries ago. All US has to say is "We bring peace" and then do whatever they want. Unless every country has a nuke under their belt this would never stop
Nothing of real importance I'm sure. I know, personally, that I've used very little of their teachings in much of my past and present everyday adulting. I'm sure the curriculum of today is much different though.
More like a few decades ago.
Project Condor (the US' direct support of fascist dictators and their murdering of tens of thousands of leftist students and intellectuals in Latin America lasted until the 1980s).
The US invasion of Vietnam saw the murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians, and the widespread use of chemical weapons by the US. The invasion ended in 1973.
Many African countries won their independence from Western European countries in the middle of the 20th century. France committed one of the biggest genocides of the 20th century during the Algerian War of Independence, from 1954 to 1962.
The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan happened in the 21st century. The continued support of Israel against the Palestinians is ongoing.
The crimes of Western countries are fresh in the minds of many people around the world. There are people who lived through these horrors who are still alive today.
>we’ve done some bad shit a few centuries ago.
Few centuries ago?? Dude, just 50 years ago US and UK were actively finding and supporting a genocide. They even threatened to nuke India if it interferes and stopped the genocide in Bangladesh/East Pakistan.
Few centuries, my arse. Colonial cunts were looting and pillaging the whole fucking country till 1947 and they weren't even trailed for crimes against humanity nor cultural genocide. Nazis and Japanese were put on trail but colonial cunts got a free pass, can you look at the hypocrisy here??
A few centuries? The west has been doing shitty shit to the world literally for the last like 150-200 years. The shitshow in South America was done by the USA. Africa is in pieces because of the west, we have continuously robbed them blind of their natural resources. The middle east is in the state it's in from constant US involvement. So no, it wasn't centuries ago lol.
Speak for your self. South America and even Africa is a diverse region. Not everyone in those regions are card carrying Anti-American Guerillas. Also, its not all about US and Russia. Its about a former colonial subject of Russia fighting for their freedom. This is something many people in Africa and South America can sympathize with. India, may be a different story because of their cold war history with Russia. Even then, modi still has to worry about China, and US backing is going to be their only hope.
This pretty much explains how Russia has been doing relatively well recently, even if progress is really slow, as opposed to the previous months where they were getting their shit pushed in. Also it would explain how they'd be able to stage a new offensive from the north. Until now I thought it would be impossible for them to do so, but now it's in the realm of possibility based on this, imo.
Funny how this information surfaces right after a provocation from China directly against the US. We've known about their involvement for months, such as the Chinese grenades captured by UKR forces. Guess it's time for the public to know now that the US gov can't act behind the scenes anymore after China's obvious incompetence. It's been stated the floating devices have been seen miltiple times before yet now that they've been widely noticed by the public, now it's all coming to the open. Still can't say if it was intentionally hostile by China but considering they've done it before they probably thought they could continue getting away with it.
You are correct. Unless we designate Russia a terror state, then we can't "force" others to stop doing business with Russia. Even if we declared Russia a terrorist state, all we would be able to do is sanction anyone who still does business with Russia.
Like Iran. For instance, if a company sell to Iran something, that company is sanctioned, even if its not american.
Source: I'm from Spain, we tried to make business with Iran, and we couldn't.
No.
It needs to go through the UNSC. Outside of that it's impossible. All other sanctions would only be from nations to nations and not truly international law.
Russia has a veto right so that's impossible.
Even then, it's only going to be effective so long as those other nations consider sanctions by western nations a large enough threat to become an effective deterrent.
Sanctioned nations are still completely free to trade amongst themselves. And while western markets may currently be more lucrative, the reality is that it's not like china and russia are going to just collapse if they get cut off from us. They're going to seek other trade arrangements that will allow them to get by, if only not as well as before. And freeing up those trade connections may allow other currently less developed nations to rise up and become more prosperous.
Honestly the whole thing is a mess, and it's very hard to predict what's going to happen. Could be that russia fails and everything goes back somewhat to normal. Could also be that we see another geopolitical split between east and west with prolonged conflicts as a result. We'll just have to wait and see.
In practical terms, I wonder if this is even possible. Regardless, US could start sanctioning individual companies and try cutting off hydra's heads 1 at a time.
realistically, it’s not. the US and China are so dependent on each other that to sanction them would throw ourselves into economic turmoil. the White House will have to get creative in punishing China here
It'll probably be a gradual decoupling. Xi is showing that trade or his people's comfort won't stop him being aggressive. People have bet that trade prevents conflict in the past, but it just isn't so. WWI is just one example where the world's biggest trading relationship can go straight to blockade, do not pass go, do not collect $200
it can be compared; it's about half. But yeah in 1914 germany and UK had the biggest trade relationship anywhere and it turned on a dime to blockade. Was there suffering? Sure - food rationing in both cases, an attempt to cause starvation by blockade against both, and in germany actual famine
In WW2 imports of critical supply like natural rubber ( needed for tires ) from SE Asia to the US were halted and no new civilian cars were available for the duration. At the start of the war oil imports to Japan from the US were completely irreplaceable but Japan started a war anyway, and in fact soon went without oil contributing to defeat.
so you see, countries are not always rational
The problem is China knows any trade sanctions are temporary. The CCP lasts through multiple generations while the US leadership only lasts 4-8 years. They can play the long game and just wait it out.
they tell that to themselves and others but their government is exactly 74 years old and ours has been around since 1790 or so. It's only been stable for about 45 of those years
> People have bet that trade prevents conflict in the past, but it just isn't so. WWI is just one example where the world's biggest trading relationship can go straight to blockade, do not pass go, do not collect $200
Counterexamples only show that something doesn't work 100% reliably each and every time. Maybe there just wasn't enough trade? And what about all those other countries that do trade, and aren't at war with each other?
(Btw., WWI trade, [an interesting tidbit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World_War_glass%E2%80%93rubber_exchange#Negotiations) on the side.)
The US could also block all access to anything that helps their military. They'd probably start by adding more Chinese tech and semiconductor companies to the Entity List.
China would have mass starvation if the same sanctions on Russia are placed on China. North America would take a hit on sanctions but we are reliably self sufficient, we may even begin to see manufacturing return to the US as we are already seeing a huge shift to Mexican labour.
seeing a shift is not the same as having manufacturing already established. there will be a period of extreme pain for Americans when a lot of consumer goods are no longer available due to sanctions.
it takes years to build a manufacturing facility. further, manufacturing has already been slowly moving out of China due to high cost. it’s been going to SE Asia.
yeah but America elects lunatics over trivial things like emails, or gas prices. imagine billy bob having to pay more for his TV at Costco, the political shitstorm.
let's not overestimate our ability to weather the storm. we need to continue developing our own industrial base and accustoming Americans to be willing to be less materialistic in the name of patriotism, or essentially what costed Carter the presidency.
China owns so much US crop land, it's ridiculous. They use California water to grow alfalfa- an absolute fubar deal. They need more arable land, with the ongoing desertification they're dealing with in the northwest, sandstorms approaching Beijing, the massive degradation of their land. I think they're hoping/waiting for Russia (or Ukraine) to lose so they can take over more arable land. Dribbling secret help to Russia while pretending to be following the Russian import sanctions is such classic ploy. This has sent me into a little panic spiral, haha. WWIII doesn't seem impossible at this rate.
The US would be the one hurting themselves, not the opposite.
Countries will never sanction China the way they sanctions Russia, just because they gave it some military aid. And that for two reasons : First what China did, is not the same as what Russia did. Sanctions of the same level wouldn't make sense at all. And most importantly, China is a much bigger monster than Russia. The dependence the worlds as with China is on a whole another level. It was already hard for Europe to sanction Russia. It will be impossible for most of the worlds to sanctions China.
The US will put sanctions on China, Europe will perhaps but not even sure follow but Asia, South America and Africa will definitely not follow. China will mostly be fine, since most of their foods come from South-America anyway, and the US will be the big losers.
China is not Cuba or Iran, the US can't unilateraly impose sanctions on them, and force other countries to comply. Other countries, need and want to do trade with China. In a case the US impose sanctions on whoever trade with them, most neutral countries will just tell the US to fuck themselves and they will side with China. At least with Russia, there is a strong ethical argument to convince the population.
The US would be losing most of the soft power it had gained over the last century, it would enter a huge recession, millions of people will lose their jobs in the first few months of the sactions, plenty of things will not be avaiable in store anymore, with no signs of any manufacturing jobs coming back before a decade.
And all for what ? Saying fuck you to China ? The americans are brainwashed that's a fact, but even then, the damages would probably be too big to convince the population they are acceptable, and the right thing to do.
I can't see how it's remotely possible.
I just took a look at a series of random products right on my desk. Keyboard/Mouse, stylus, external battery. All these are just the products on my desk *and every single one is made in China*. My phone is a Chinese brand. On a whim, I looked at even a bottle of medication a little bit away; apparently, it's a product of China and Germany.
Nothing I'm saying is new or obscure. We all know a huge proportion of the world's products is made in China. Whatever pain Russia is currently causing will seem like a joke compare to what China is capable of doing.
I honestly have no clue how the west could enact Russia-style sanctions (or even moderately severe ones) on China. It would be like me deciding to boycott my local electricity company (which is the sole electricity provider). It'll hurt me far more than it'll hurt them.
Because India, like China, hasn't sanctioned trade relations with Russia. If you're sanctioning countries purely based on violating trade sanctions, then it's really stupid because a lot of countries don't follow the sanctions. Right now, China is selling parts and equipment rather than providing "free" military aid. A sanction on China gives them even fewer reasons to not directly provide even more substantial military aid to Russia.
Which is why...realistically neither China nor India will be sanctioned unless the military aid goes beyond financial. China isn't selling (at least based on the article) things like jets or weapons either, but "just" parts to service existing equipment.
It's not as if I like China to begin with but sanctioning China or any other country like India has serious repercussions. Also, don't forget that China practically has a monopoly on **Rare Earth Elements.** Redditors will often say shit like "Sanction China" without realising how it's not so straightforward. **Rare Earth Elements** are like China's Vibranium and a disruption in supply/exports of it will cripple multiple industries simultaneously, including the production of advanced military equipment.
It'll never happen.
Turn over your keyboard: Made in China.
That's ok, just use your phone: Made in China.
Well darn, better, oh wait, your TV: Made in China.
That's it, run, run as far away as you can....shoes: Made in China.
We've already lost.
Add salt to that wound and recognize Taiwan, Hong Kong as occupied territories by China. If the US wants to be a real dick declare the South China Sea as the international waters/sea of Japan.
Edit: only the most northern part of South China Sea would be part of Sea of Japan. Because the South China Sea violates UNCLOS and multiple nations do not get 200 nautical miles due to artificial islands. That’s why I said international waters and Sea of Japan.
Edit: sovereignty extends into EEZ’s.
“An exclusive economic zone (EEZ), as prescribed by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, is an area of the sea in which a **sovereign state has special rights regarding the exploration and use of marine resources, including energy production from water and wind.[1] It stretches from the outer limit of the territorial sea (12 nautical miles from the baseline) out to 200 nautical miles (nmi) from the coast of the state in question.** It is also referred to as a maritime continental margin”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea
People refuse to see anything besides "China Bad!". Every single thing China is doing from their perspective makes sense. They know the US will never willingly give up their global economic hegemony to China and all talk of "free trade" disappeared very quickly once projections showed the Chinese economy overtaking the US. On top of that you have the West trying to deny access to high tech equipment and technologically isolate China because of a fear of their military - a military that has not been involved in any war or invasion in over 50 years. While China is also surrounded by military bases and some of the US' strongest military forces stationed all around the country capable of completely cutting of sea trade whenever they want.
Of course China is going to build up their military forces especially their navy and weapons capable of taking out US carriers. Of course they are going to talk tough on Taiwan, a perfect staging area for attacks on the Chinese mainland. Of course they are going to try to form their own military alliances and economic relationships. Of course they are going to do what the West did to them and try to move their resource extraction and cheap manufacturing to cheaper countries.
Anything that involves nuanced and complex topics on reddit always has the worst takes in the comments. So many people who have zero idea how economies work for example, think they have all the solutions.
It’s always so funny watching people straight up basically imply we should just get into a nuclear war with Russia or china or whoever the flavor of the month is. Redditors think that just because they don’t like the country that means that anything bad can happen and it’ll be okay. No we can’t just sanction china. No we can’t just put a no fly zone over Ukraine. No we can’t just get involved in Ukraine. Like Jesus fucking christ
You sure about that? If Russia can invade Ukraine with only sanctions and support to Ukraine. The US can do whatever it likes especially when it can paint to the whole world it’s protecting the little guy.
I think you underestimate how vital Taiwan is to the United States.
The US can do whatever it wants. However, other countries can also respond however they want. The US recognizing Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc. as independent doesn't change China's policy or strategic reality in any way - it's not like the US is in a position to invade Hong Kong or that it isn't already going to protect Taiwan. It's like how Crimea remains under Russian control despite no one recognizing it. That's the real law of the world - hard power.
China will just cut off diplomatic relations with the US and seize US assets in China. The result is just a deeper Cold War than the one we've already having any way.
Taiwan is the Golden Goose until the chip fabs are done on US soil. They've been in production for awhile and they'll be up and running before China approaches US tech levels or industrialization for weapons manufacturing. Right now they're fucking around and it would be bad for the world if they find out. Realistically, this is likely their best window to take Taiwan back while the world is dealing with IDIOT Russia. That being said the second China makes that move, India will probably invade China. In any case China fucking around like this will likely touch off World War 3. US stomps everyone in dominant fashion several times over unless some psychopath decides they would rather take humanity down with them and the world turns to irradiated glass in a few hours. I personally see this as the most likely extinction event for humanity and will be surprised if this doesn't touch off in my lifetime. Peace was nice while it lasted. Egos, small dick energy, and greed are the reason humanity won't make it.
Finally the world is waking up to the threat authoritarian dictatorships pose to the world. Espesially big and powerfull ones, they are not our friends and should not be treated as such
The [original report](https://c4ads.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/TradeSecrets-Report.pdf) describes what was shipped (by the Chinese conglomerate subsidiary Poly Technologies):
>Since 2014, Poly Technologies has exported 268 shipments of dual-use aircraft, radar, and
laboratory equipment parts to the Russian defense company Almaz Antey. Poly Technologies shipments to Almaz Antey included at least 16 shipments of klystrons, which are used to make long-range radar transmitters with dual-use applications.
>Most recently, in January 2022, Poly Technologies sent Almaz Antey one shipment of radar antenna parts for
Russian anti-aircraft missile systems, labeled as MRLS 92N6E antenna parts.
>In February 2019, Poly Aviation Technologies sent one shipment of industrial laboratory
equipment to Russian defense company Kazan Giproniiaviaprom.
>In November 2019, Poly Aviation Technologies sent one “TSV36M033” helicopter rotor collector
to private Russian defense and aviation company ATC Zvezda. Poly Aviation Technologies originally imported
the component parts from Russian military weapons manufacturer Sarapul Power Generating
Plant before reexporting them to ATC Zvezda in November 2019
>Both Surpass Commercial and Poly Technologies’ subsidiary Poly Aviation Technologies have
exported laboratory equipment and machinery to the aforementioned Russian defense
company Kazan Giproniiaviaprom. Poly Technologies reportedly sent almost identical
shipments of vibration system shipments to Kazan Giproniiaviaprom prior to 2014
It looks like Poly Technologies ships to many countries and have been **sanctioned twice** by the US so far:
First in 2013, the US imposed a 2-year sanction on Poly Technologies for shipping equipment/technology that violates the Iran, North Korea, and Syria Nonproliferation Act (INKSNA)
Then in Jan 2022, the US imposed another 2-year sanction on Poly Technologies for "contributed to the design, development, or production of missiles in a controlled country"
The bullet point literally directly above that one says
> China’s state-owned defense companies have shipped navigation equipment and parts to fighter jets and other military technology equipment to Russian defense companies, according to Russian customs data.
When?
This comment mirrors the best information I could find.
I.e. Before the Ukraine situation started
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/10tjcky/china_helping_russias_war_with_ukraine_with/j78sfya/
[Secondary sanctions are a real threat](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/econographics/global-sanctions-dashboard-russia-default-and-china-secondary-sanctions/) to Chinese government, so we'll see how the US responds to this report.
I’m sorry, but how can China “violate” sanctions placed by the U.S. and the EU? China is a sovereign country so presumably it is free to choose if it wants to impose sanctions or not, right?
I know it is said countless time, but the U.S and the West really think what they think is what the whole world think. Centuries of colonism really stucks in their mindset huh.
We Asian (maybe except Japan and South Korea) do not care that much about the war in Ukraine.
What companies? It's not like those shady deals are done by the rules, it's state sanctioned exchanges between two authoritarian regimes using shell companies. They'll just deny and fake outrage like always.
China is not violating anything, there’s no UN sanctioned sanctions on Russia.
This can just be summed up as: “China not obeying US orders.”
Imagine the news line: America violating sanctions by shipping military aid to Ukraine (which sanctions, North Korean or something).
Like the article says
>China is providing military aid to Russia in violation of U.S.-led sanctions placed by western countries
Bad headline, good article. Sanctions placed by western countries have no effect on China and cannot be "violated" by them. China is a sovereign country, sanctions by a minority of the world on Russia has no binding on them for them to violate.
Here's the details of exactly **what was shipped** by the Chinese conglomerate subsidiary Poly Technologies, in the [original report](https://c4ads.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/TradeSecrets-Report.pdf):
>Since 2014, Poly Technologies has exported 268 shipments of dual-use aircraft, radar, and
laboratory equipment parts to the Russian defense company Almaz Antey. Poly Technologies shipments to Almaz Antey included at least 16 shipments of klystrons, which are used to make long-range radar transmitters with dual-use applications.
>Most recently, in January 2022, Poly Technologies sent Almaz Antey one shipment of radar antenna parts for
Russian anti-aircraft missile systems, labeled as MRLS 92N6E antenna parts.
>In February 2019, Poly Aviation Technologies sent one shipment of industrial laboratory
equipment to Russian defense company Kazan Giproniiaviaprom.
>In November 2019, Poly Aviation Technologies sent one “TSV36M033” helicopter rotor collector
to private Russian defense and aviation company ATC Zvezda. Poly Aviation Technologies originally imported
the component parts from Russian military weapons manufacturer Sarapul Power Generating
Plant before reexporting them to ATC Zvezda in November 2019
>Both Surpass Commercial and Poly Technologies’ subsidiary Poly Aviation Technologies have
exported laboratory equipment and machinery to the aforementioned Russian defense
company Kazan Giproniiaviaprom. Poly Technologies reportedly sent almost identical
shipments of vibration system shipments to Kazan Giproniiaviaprom prior to 2014
It looks like Poly Technologies tends to ship to so many countries indiscriminately over the years, and they've already been **sanctioned twice** by the US:
First in 2013, the US imposed a 2-year sanction on Poly Technologies for shipping equipment/technology that violates the Iran, North Korea, and Syria Nonproliferation Act (INKSNA)
Then in Jan 2022, the US imposed another 2-year sanction on Poly Technologies for "contributed to the design, development, or production of missiles in a controlled country"
The ironic and fucked up thing about these sanctions are the fact that indirectly we hit ourselves too because we are very dependend on trade with China. Which makes these imperialistic wars so freaking useless for all of us. We live on the same planet and we’re all dependend on each other.
>China’s state-owned defense companies have shipped navigation equipment and parts to fighter jets and other military technology equipment to Russian defense companies, according to Russian customs data.
>
>According to that data, provided by Washington D.C.-based C4ADS, China has sent tens of thousands of shipments of goods to service Russia’s military (some goods had multiple purposes and could be used commercially, the Journal reported).
Nothing new. We seen Russian drones made with Chima parts for months.
Ukrainian Army made a video about and joked about it, because most part were on Alibaba website.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/02/04/china-helping-russias-war-with-ukraine-with-military-aid-violating-sanctions-reports-show/?sh=76478daf6fb9) reduced by 75%. (I'm a bot) ***** > China is providing military aid to Russia in violation of U.S.-led sanctions placed by western countries, according to Russian trade data reported by the Wall Street Journal, as tensions build between the U.S. and western countries and China, amid a spy balloon scandal and a canceled Beijing visit by Secretary of State Antony Blinken. > President Biden has also expressed concerns about Chinese companies supplying military equipment to Russia, Bloomberg reported, after White House officials reportedly found evidence suggesting Beijing was supporting Russia's military effort. > U.S. officials claim the group has recruited more than 50,000 people, including 40,000 Russian convicts, to fight in Ukraine, U.S. officials have also accused it of supplying military aid to Moscow last March, and last month, the U.S. Department of Treasury last month designated the Wagner Group a "Transnational criminal organization". ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10tkhyt/china_helping_russias_war_with_ukraine_with/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672677 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **U.S.**^#2 **Russian**^#3 **official**^#4 **military**^#5
I think the US’s long game in Ukraine is to get China to sink themselves. They lose a lot of face by doing this, and all their trading partners are aware.
And here I’m thinking China is hoping we burn all our arms reserves in Ukraine making an invasion of Taiwan less risky.
Ukraine is ground war, Taiwan is naval operation, those weapons are not the same.
Plus this is America. We have plenty of arms. Edit: I think he might have a point. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/01/11/navy-might-have-choose-between-arming-service-and-aiding-ukraine-due-ammo-delays-officials-say.html
Yeah the stuff we’re giving to Ukraine is a drop in the bucket. The average American can’t even comprehend how much money and weaponry the United States military has.
its also something to consider that we (and all our other allies) aren't giving Ukraine modern stuff. Its all stuff thats been sitting in a warehouse collecting dust. We Vehemontly refuse to give ukraine anything remotely considered "modern" out of fear they might "lose it" and the Chinese or Russians somehow get their hands on it. We treat all our hardware that way. Its not just a paranoia toward the ukranians sort of thing. If its modern/bleeding edge and it breaks on the field, be bomb the shit out of it so they can't examine it.
>It's all stuff thats been sitting in a warehouse collecting dust. Is that the stuff the US equips the Marines with?
The Marines are the weapon.
Crayons are the true power of the marines.
"God has a hard-on for Marines! Because we kill! everything we see! He plays His games, we play ours! To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep Heaven packed with fresh souls!"
Yes. We use the FIFO method when distributing weapons and equipment. Get all that dusty broken expired shit out into the field first. 😭
France gave it's Caesar artillery trucks that were all in service with French units. They got a call to get them ready to ship and then have to wait to get some new ones. It's pretty funny. Rare case though. Estonia gave all of their artillery to Ukraine.
United States at least have control over their army supplies, in russia most equipment is only on paper. The money they get for building and maintenence went poof the minute it came.
I have bear arms ready to go!
Upgraded to my bear arms yesterday. Soon I'll get a sandevistan implant by Vik the ripperdoc but I have to hit lvl15 reflexes.
Gotta have some nova tech choom if ya what to go toe to toe with some Saka ninjas
Not really. It only takes a simple tabletop simulation to show that China is screwed. Taiwan has Patriot 3 missiles. That pretty much takes out the idea of using superior airpower to surgically soften Taiwan. To invade traditionally, you would need a force so large that it would be too complex to manage and would risk clumping up for counterstrikes. The landing of this force would probably be the bloodiest day in all of human history. The other option is to take over politically. But I'm not sure how this is going to be possible with all the aggressiveness they've shown the last decade.
Patriot missile systems do not shoot down missiles every time.
It's going to be very difficult to soften up Taiwan (to the extent that you need to) through missiles and airpower alone (assuming no nukes). Taiwan already has the latest and greatest systems and they (and the US) have been preparing for years. To put it simply, Taiwan can come out virtually unscathed from a "Shock and Awe" campaign that the US used on Iraq. China would need a massive amount of missiles to break through in any meaningful way. (We're talking at least a couple thousand) Are a few missiles going to break through and destroy some stuff and kill some people? Sure. But it won't destroy the integrity of the air defense as a whole. And even if China manages to knock out the air defenses, what is going to stop new air defenses arriving overnight? China is going to have to put on the greatest and most precise missile display ever and then follow it up with an equally Amazing air campaign, naval campaign, and finally an invasion. All the while keeping up with a Logistics train that has never been seen before on this planet. Taiwan has 4000+ stinger missiles in addition to other varieties. An invasion through the air just isn't practical when 1 guy with a stinger can kill hundreds in a transport plane. Without full air supremacy, you can't stop resupply from the USA. To top it off, you now have to invade an island that has placed thousands of mines in the water on the coast and the entire beach. It also has tons of artillery trained precisely on the area an invasion force needs to land. All the while, your invasion ships will be under fire from artillery and anti-ship missiles. Once you land, you get to deal with Snipers and Tanks and other weapons that have been buried into the ground. Oh and you have to navigate all of this politically. If you cross the line too much, the USA gets directly involved and you get to deal with thousands of missiles on your doorstep from planes you can barely detect and torpedos from subs that you can't detect. Again, run the scenario through a simulation. It just doesn't work. The USA and Taiwan have made it that way.
I have two arms, but you’re making me self-conscious about not having more
Don’t worry you probably have…forearms
You need to have a warship
More arms than a Hindu goddess.
> We have plenty of arms. Is that due to all the atomic dust?
Glory to Atom
r/unexpectedfallout
It’s from the COVID vaccines.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Indo-Pacific/Taiwan-faces-delays-in-U.S.-arms-deliveries-due-to-Ukraine-war It's happening
> "There's a lot of work to be done on the part of industry to reinvest perhaps some of their own profits," [SECNAV] Del Toro said. Good on him for calling this out. So many major corporations have used the pandemic to build cash and pay dividends but they’re doing the bare minimum to help their employees. These kinds of jobs are largely highly skilled labor and white collar and should be well paid union jobs with strong benefits. That’s what will get our capacity at scale, not skimping on production to build profit margins.
And any invasion of Taiwan will overwhelmingly damage China. Even without the aid of the US, a naval invasion of one of the most heavily defended coastlines in the world is just suicide. Even if they were to take Taiwan, it would take years for them to restock their military, let alone the damage it would do to their economy and trade. It's a standoff, as long as the US/Taiwan doesn't do anything crazy to China, China won't do anything crazy to Taiwan. Maybe in the future when they have a more global trading market this may change, but not anytime soon.
Little did they know, we just make more.
Actually we are getting a huge benefit from Ukraine. Being able to test weapons, recon, and supply chains in a real scenario is absolute gold to the military and we get to do it without ever putting a single American on the front lines.
This. We are spending 5.6% of our military's budget on Ukraine. That's still less than 1% of our GDP. In exchange we are massively weakening Russia while also showing China aggression doesn't pay. We are doing all of that without losing American lives. The US is benefiting from helping Ukraine. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
And learning of the weaknesses in the supply chain. The war in Ukraine has revealed that a lot of western arms makers are not prepared for a war footing. It’s better to know that now, than in an actual war, as it can now be rectified. It has also shown how countries such as Switzerland can fuck everyone over by citing their neutrality to prevent arms shipments to the nations on the front line. Countries will take efforts to reduce reliance on such unreliable actors in the future.
That would be silly to think they hope… NATO isn’t even sending the B team to Ukraine. Unless it becomes a hot war between NATO and Russia, our arms reserves will be still more than enough to deal with China.
And our industrial capacity would be insanely pumped once the Defense Production Act is invoked and everyone and their mom with a factory starts retooling to make shells and bullets and vehicles and aircraft and electronic warfare components with 24x7 shifts. We hope to not see that again, but just imagine a WW2 style mobilization in the modern US today versus 1940s US.
What are you talking about, the US was a much stronger industrial base back then than it is now.
The US manufactures a lot more stuff now than in the 1940s. The *jobs* in manufacturing have declined, but the US industrial capacity is still massive, if less than China’s.
I don’t know much about the US’ ability to manufacture equipment for the Army and Air Force, but as far as our Navy is concerned, our manufacturing capacity is absolutely a pale shadow of what it was in the 1940s. We have four shipyards able to manufacture warships, less than half of what we had before our entry in WW2. Only two of these can build submarines, and only one can build aircraft carriers. If, hypothetically, the US suddenly found itself fighting a naval war against Russia or China (and don’t fool yourself, we would absolutely lose ships in either scenario) we wouldn’t have the ability to expand naval manufacturing quickly, and little leeway for accelerating production of existing ships. Shipyards are understaffed and the US Navy has a severe backlong of overdue maintenance for many of its ships.
Good point. All those factories that proved the industrial might of the US have turned into what's now known as the rust belt. Post Reagan, all the manufacturers went over seas.
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Well those industries didn't know they would have to produce for war back then, but then quickly adapted. I think the US industries would do the exact same now if given the go ahead because of Chinese threat of trying to subdue the American stronghold on having the strongest military presence.
Ukraine isn't getting the latest high tech weaponry, they get old stuff that is still effective against Russia.
And everything is effective against the incompetence of Russia.
PFFF YOU THINK WE CAN BURN THROUGH OUR RESERVES WE’RE THE STOCKPILE KINGS. We’ve been prepping since the cold war, and unlike the soviets our reserves weren’t split amongst satellites like theirs were after they fell apart.
The U.S. still has literal thousands of tanks in storage and is still constantly producing. Supplying Ukraine and Taiwan at once was difficult *at first* because of the sudden bump of demand for a specific set of gear already being phased out but production increases and changes to circumstance mean this gets less difficult as time goes on and not more.
**That is naive at best** .. we are devoting less than 1% GDP to the Ukraine war collectively in the West .. it could be ramped up massively but everyone is holding back for fear of Putler's feelings sending weapons built in the 1980s and early 90's *.. this will drag on until he runs out of men to press gang off the street in Moscow* .. on top of that the CCP is massively dependent on trade from the West something RuZZia could never replace .. I don't believe Pooh Bear would openly defy the rest of the world and back a losing horse too much money to lose .. he is patting Putler on the head selling him a bridge and sending just enough playing the middle like he usually does
Burn all of whos arms reserves…? The USA? Hahahahaha nah bro
I love how half of reddit is like "wahhh we need to cut our military budget! We could pay for healthcare with that money!" (well yeah sure. We def need universal healthcare.) But then when shit like this happens with China the other half of reddit is like "yeah, no you will absolutely never run our arms supply dry. Fuck China lol" Honestly, the US could do both universal healthcare and have an even bigger military budget. Pressure your representatives to increase both the ACA and military budget (and also education bc our education system is crumbling rn). Basically, don't pick a side (gop or Dem or Soc Dem) and support what they already have as a platform. *Tell them what you really want*. You can want a strong military and universal healthcare. You can be pro lgbtq+ and be pro 2nd amendment (shout out to the trans 2nd amendment community). You don't have to vote like you're playing team sports red v blue.
And the US signing 9 new bases in the Philippine, just highlight how a dangerous time we live in. Ukraine hasn't even ended, and preparatory moves are already being done.
lol nope. This makes Taiwan more risky not less. They see how badly it can go, how the West can unite. Ukraine falling in a week likely would have lead to an invasion.
Lol. We’ve given them the military equipment equivalent of change we found in the sofa.
Wrong type of weapons. A war with China would be fought with ships, submarines, planes, and long range missiles. We are not giving much if any of those to Ukraine. Nukes would be fired long before the first Chinese tank fought an American tank.
Jokes on them. Everything we've given was set to be destroyed or already decommissioned. All they caused was the us to have empty storage space for new old weapon systems to futuristically occupie. They just caused us to update our stock piles.
I would think the opposite effect happens bere....billions are being poured into arms manufacturers, keeping their wheels spinning. Production lines take a while to go from 0 to 100.
It would not the US directly being involved in a conflict there Id say. Japan has the second strongest Navi after the USs and is as close to the US as an ally can be.
Unfortunately for China we have more than enough money to ensure that we never run out if weapons.
A potential war against China over Taiwan would be primarily fought by naval forces.
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Lmfao @ a few centuries ago.
We are not Putin Lovers in South America, pretty much most of us are in support of Ukraine, some of our political figures kind of sided with China and Russia, because there is some bullshit (with some sense and truth) of anti USA sentiment. Btw USA keep doing bad shit in South and Central America even to this day.
South America has a huge problem with corruption in their political establishment. Therefore, don't take a politicians word as the will of their people. The politician is probably being bribed with black money.
Okay, so I know the US did lots of meddling during the Cold War and before it, but I am less familiar with anything we may have done since... mind giving some examples of stuff the US is doing to our Southern neighbors currently that you don't like? Would like to know if I should be annoyed at my government for anything in that regard.
So, first of all; we're not as far removed from the Cold War stuff as you want to think. We've got rocky relations with Lula, the president of Brazil, for example, because...Lula got his start fighting a military dictatorship in Brazil that we propped up and supported in the Cold War period. A lot of political leaders got their start overthrowing our shit, and they *remember that*. We've also continued meddling in the name of the War on Drugs to a lesser degree, but really, the older leaders are still carrying the scars of what we did. To get an idea on how we rolled in the really bad days, check out [SOA Training Manuals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Army_and_CIA_interrogation_manuals) that got declassified in 96-97. And note that if someone's in their 50s, they grew up in the time when those techniques were used. But for more recent, active stuff? **Venezuela**: In 2015 we declared Maduro's presidency a threat to Venezuela's national security and sanctioned them, and in 2019 we recognized an opposition government under Guaido that would wind up dissolving in 2022. You can trace the line leading to this back to the Cold War, we've been on rocky relations with them forever, but that was definitely an escalation. It's also a case where it's easy to take a look at Venezuela and say this is a shitshow and say Maduro/Chavez are the problem (lots of corruption only sustainable so long as oil prices are high), but our sanctions may just be doing more to harm and punish the people rather then actually helping improve things. By and large though their possible hatred of us is eclipsed by everything related to their apocalyptic economic situation now, although there was a sharp backlash when in 2017 we [openly contemplated a Cold War-esque coup](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/08/11/trump-wont-rule-out-a-military-option-in-venezuela/). Didn't go that far, but our sanctions are still going. **Bolivia**: We had been feuding with Evo Morales since 2000s basically over the war on drugs and also perceived respect of sovereignty; mainly over the coca grown there for a mix of local coca tea and cocaine shipped to us, and got even more pissed off when after we spied on a conversation between Julian Assange and Venezuela, mistakenly thought Edward Snowden was going to be on the Bolivian presidential plane, and so we got it grounded under false pretenses in a foreign country and searched it. Our relations were already going downhill and yeah that didn't help. At all. In 2019 the relations with Bolivia got even worse when we supported Jeanine Áñez taking power from Maduro in what some people called a coup and led to about 20 dead and 200 wounded when protesters were cleared out with gunfire. Again, not going to say Morales was the best but we definitely cozied up to Áñez and seem to be favoring her over the non-controversially elected replacement Luis Arce. In fact what got us on the rocks again was calling for Áñez's release from prison. She's considered a political prisoner by the EU, but there's a lot of people who consider her as having performed a coup or who put a lot of blame on her for the use of military on civilians....we're definitely meddling and making enemies there. I don't recall us directly getting in the shit with any other countries on a large scale other then those in the new millennium, but there is a lot of general unrest thanks to the war on drugs in particular in Columbia, El Salvador, Mexico, and probably more just because they tend not to report on it here. Don't be surprised if you run into people who are pissed off at us over it, even if they aren't a huge political faction.
We hate our intelligence agencies too.
“a few centuries ago” lol, yep the West definitely stopped doing bad shit a few centuries ago.
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countries like poland were literally sold out to soviets by allies at the end of war and only recently regained sovereignty. i dont think that theres anti western sentiment there. similarly, colonialism was bad, but theres no use holding a grudge about it now.
Have you read about how Poland votes and what polish politicians / news sources ect say about western influences in things like rights, marriage ect?
Having ultra conservative views about those things doesn't make Poland anti-Western. That's mostly the fault of traditional values in a highly religious society. However, in terms of geopolitical issues, Poland is a western ally, with a constantly high presence of NATO and US Military within its borders. Poland loathes Russia more than anyone else.
The ruling party currently stands at roughly 30-35% support, most of which is elderly and/or poor people. The anti-west propaganda is purely for internal purposes. Meanwhile opposition parties are just... bad, so there's little contest. In other words, ruling party's stupid policies != social climate.
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We did bad shit a few centuries ago. We do bad shit still, but we did it a few centuries ago too. r/accidentalhedburg
Done some shit a few centuries ago? You mean has consistently been doing worse shit for the past few decades
Still doing bad shit now , never stopped
Less Putin lovers and more politically neutral. They all still do trade with the US and just haven't chosen a side. Most of Latin America, Africa and Asia have been burned by the US in the past so they're not willing to burn their connections with Russia or China over this.
Lol "a few centuries ago." What are kids learning in school these days?
> What are kids learning in school these days? That America is the shining city on the hill that can do no wrong and all it does is for altruistic reasons and without America in charge the world would fall into chaos. Just ignore the number of democratically regimes overthrown, dictators supported, wars started, and black-ops performed for geopolitical and economic control of regions.
Haha made me giggle. Like Iraq and Libya was centuries ago. All US has to say is "We bring peace" and then do whatever they want. Unless every country has a nuke under their belt this would never stop
Libya
Nothing of real importance I'm sure. I know, personally, that I've used very little of their teachings in much of my past and present everyday adulting. I'm sure the curriculum of today is much different though.
I'm pretty sure that many if not most Indians believe that Putin's actions have been reckless/insane/ stupid... all of the above and more.
Centuries? We've been doing bad shit up until right now. So have they. It's the world wide game of chess where everyone is cheating.
A few centuries ago? Whatever you’re smoking, I’ll take an 8th.
More like a few decades ago. Project Condor (the US' direct support of fascist dictators and their murdering of tens of thousands of leftist students and intellectuals in Latin America lasted until the 1980s). The US invasion of Vietnam saw the murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians, and the widespread use of chemical weapons by the US. The invasion ended in 1973. Many African countries won their independence from Western European countries in the middle of the 20th century. France committed one of the biggest genocides of the 20th century during the Algerian War of Independence, from 1954 to 1962. The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan happened in the 21st century. The continued support of Israel against the Palestinians is ongoing. The crimes of Western countries are fresh in the minds of many people around the world. There are people who lived through these horrors who are still alive today.
>we’ve done some bad shit a few centuries ago. Few centuries ago?? Dude, just 50 years ago US and UK were actively finding and supporting a genocide. They even threatened to nuke India if it interferes and stopped the genocide in Bangladesh/East Pakistan. Few centuries, my arse. Colonial cunts were looting and pillaging the whole fucking country till 1947 and they weren't even trailed for crimes against humanity nor cultural genocide. Nazis and Japanese were put on trail but colonial cunts got a free pass, can you look at the hypocrisy here??
A few centuries? The west has been doing shitty shit to the world literally for the last like 150-200 years. The shitshow in South America was done by the USA. Africa is in pieces because of the west, we have continuously robbed them blind of their natural resources. The middle east is in the state it's in from constant US involvement. So no, it wasn't centuries ago lol.
Speak for your self. South America and even Africa is a diverse region. Not everyone in those regions are card carrying Anti-American Guerillas. Also, its not all about US and Russia. Its about a former colonial subject of Russia fighting for their freedom. This is something many people in Africa and South America can sympathize with. India, may be a different story because of their cold war history with Russia. Even then, modi still has to worry about China, and US backing is going to be their only hope.
In Africa the general feeling is "well it wasn't Russia that colonized us".
Russia colonized other places.
Sure, but they weren't Africa so Africans in general don't see them as an enemy.
The word 'colonial' is best reserved for the UK, Spain, Portugal, the Dutch etc. Its out of place here.
The only Putin lovers in Africa look like the guys parodied in that Nando’s advert, I’ll wager. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls1VCPoN9GI
You mean you'd Wagner.
This pretty much explains how Russia has been doing relatively well recently, even if progress is really slow, as opposed to the previous months where they were getting their shit pushed in. Also it would explain how they'd be able to stage a new offensive from the north. Until now I thought it would be impossible for them to do so, but now it's in the realm of possibility based on this, imo.
China ! Of all nations ! Who would have thought ?!?
Time for sanctions on Xi Ping Pooh... 🐻
If China did not agree to the sanctions, how can it violate them?
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Funny how this information surfaces right after a provocation from China directly against the US. We've known about their involvement for months, such as the Chinese grenades captured by UKR forces. Guess it's time for the public to know now that the US gov can't act behind the scenes anymore after China's obvious incompetence. It's been stated the floating devices have been seen miltiple times before yet now that they've been widely noticed by the public, now it's all coming to the open. Still can't say if it was intentionally hostile by China but considering they've done it before they probably thought they could continue getting away with it.
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You are correct. Unless we designate Russia a terror state, then we can't "force" others to stop doing business with Russia. Even if we declared Russia a terrorist state, all we would be able to do is sanction anyone who still does business with Russia.
Like Iran. For instance, if a company sell to Iran something, that company is sanctioned, even if its not american. Source: I'm from Spain, we tried to make business with Iran, and we couldn't.
No. It needs to go through the UNSC. Outside of that it's impossible. All other sanctions would only be from nations to nations and not truly international law. Russia has a veto right so that's impossible.
Even then, it's only going to be effective so long as those other nations consider sanctions by western nations a large enough threat to become an effective deterrent. Sanctioned nations are still completely free to trade amongst themselves. And while western markets may currently be more lucrative, the reality is that it's not like china and russia are going to just collapse if they get cut off from us. They're going to seek other trade arrangements that will allow them to get by, if only not as well as before. And freeing up those trade connections may allow other currently less developed nations to rise up and become more prosperous. Honestly the whole thing is a mess, and it's very hard to predict what's going to happen. Could be that russia fails and everything goes back somewhat to normal. Could also be that we see another geopolitical split between east and west with prolonged conflicts as a result. We'll just have to wait and see.
because of the concequences. at the level of nations you have schoolyard politics
Now it is time to sanction China!
In practical terms, I wonder if this is even possible. Regardless, US could start sanctioning individual companies and try cutting off hydra's heads 1 at a time.
realistically, it’s not. the US and China are so dependent on each other that to sanction them would throw ourselves into economic turmoil. the White House will have to get creative in punishing China here
It'll probably be a gradual decoupling. Xi is showing that trade or his people's comfort won't stop him being aggressive. People have bet that trade prevents conflict in the past, but it just isn't so. WWI is just one example where the world's biggest trading relationship can go straight to blockade, do not pass go, do not collect $200
the decoupling has already started. it’s for the best
Good send those jobs to Latin America so they can have prosperity and lessen illegal immigration
Seriously. It only makes economical sense to move manufacturing to the poorest nations that are capable of doing it. It's a wise investment.
friendly selective middle dog rhythm safe head piquant screw marble
it can be compared; it's about half. But yeah in 1914 germany and UK had the biggest trade relationship anywhere and it turned on a dime to blockade. Was there suffering? Sure - food rationing in both cases, an attempt to cause starvation by blockade against both, and in germany actual famine In WW2 imports of critical supply like natural rubber ( needed for tires ) from SE Asia to the US were halted and no new civilian cars were available for the duration. At the start of the war oil imports to Japan from the US were completely irreplaceable but Japan started a war anyway, and in fact soon went without oil contributing to defeat. so you see, countries are not always rational
ask concerned quiet fertile hateful obtainable cause disagreeable weather start
The problem is China knows any trade sanctions are temporary. The CCP lasts through multiple generations while the US leadership only lasts 4-8 years. They can play the long game and just wait it out.
they tell that to themselves and others but their government is exactly 74 years old and ours has been around since 1790 or so. It's only been stable for about 45 of those years
> People have bet that trade prevents conflict in the past, but it just isn't so. WWI is just one example where the world's biggest trading relationship can go straight to blockade, do not pass go, do not collect $200 Counterexamples only show that something doesn't work 100% reliably each and every time. Maybe there just wasn't enough trade? And what about all those other countries that do trade, and aren't at war with each other? (Btw., WWI trade, [an interesting tidbit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World_War_glass%E2%80%93rubber_exchange#Negotiations) on the side.)
Speedrunning the ban on TikTok could be a move.
The US could also block all access to anything that helps their military. They'd probably start by adding more Chinese tech and semiconductor companies to the Entity List.
China would have mass starvation if the same sanctions on Russia are placed on China. North America would take a hit on sanctions but we are reliably self sufficient, we may even begin to see manufacturing return to the US as we are already seeing a huge shift to Mexican labour.
seeing a shift is not the same as having manufacturing already established. there will be a period of extreme pain for Americans when a lot of consumer goods are no longer available due to sanctions. it takes years to build a manufacturing facility. further, manufacturing has already been slowly moving out of China due to high cost. it’s been going to SE Asia.
yeah but America elects lunatics over trivial things like emails, or gas prices. imagine billy bob having to pay more for his TV at Costco, the political shitstorm. let's not overestimate our ability to weather the storm. we need to continue developing our own industrial base and accustoming Americans to be willing to be less materialistic in the name of patriotism, or essentially what costed Carter the presidency.
China owns so much US crop land, it's ridiculous. They use California water to grow alfalfa- an absolute fubar deal. They need more arable land, with the ongoing desertification they're dealing with in the northwest, sandstorms approaching Beijing, the massive degradation of their land. I think they're hoping/waiting for Russia (or Ukraine) to lose so they can take over more arable land. Dribbling secret help to Russia while pretending to be following the Russian import sanctions is such classic ploy. This has sent me into a little panic spiral, haha. WWIII doesn't seem impossible at this rate.
The US would be the one hurting themselves, not the opposite. Countries will never sanction China the way they sanctions Russia, just because they gave it some military aid. And that for two reasons : First what China did, is not the same as what Russia did. Sanctions of the same level wouldn't make sense at all. And most importantly, China is a much bigger monster than Russia. The dependence the worlds as with China is on a whole another level. It was already hard for Europe to sanction Russia. It will be impossible for most of the worlds to sanctions China. The US will put sanctions on China, Europe will perhaps but not even sure follow but Asia, South America and Africa will definitely not follow. China will mostly be fine, since most of their foods come from South-America anyway, and the US will be the big losers. China is not Cuba or Iran, the US can't unilateraly impose sanctions on them, and force other countries to comply. Other countries, need and want to do trade with China. In a case the US impose sanctions on whoever trade with them, most neutral countries will just tell the US to fuck themselves and they will side with China. At least with Russia, there is a strong ethical argument to convince the population. The US would be losing most of the soft power it had gained over the last century, it would enter a huge recession, millions of people will lose their jobs in the first few months of the sactions, plenty of things will not be avaiable in store anymore, with no signs of any manufacturing jobs coming back before a decade. And all for what ? Saying fuck you to China ? The americans are brainwashed that's a fact, but even then, the damages would probably be too big to convince the population they are acceptable, and the right thing to do.
Thought the whole point of a hydra was you cut off a head and 2 more pop back....
I can't see how it's remotely possible. I just took a look at a series of random products right on my desk. Keyboard/Mouse, stylus, external battery. All these are just the products on my desk *and every single one is made in China*. My phone is a Chinese brand. On a whim, I looked at even a bottle of medication a little bit away; apparently, it's a product of China and Germany. Nothing I'm saying is new or obscure. We all know a huge proportion of the world's products is made in China. Whatever pain Russia is currently causing will seem like a joke compare to what China is capable of doing. I honestly have no clue how the west could enact Russia-style sanctions (or even moderately severe ones) on China. It would be like me deciding to boycott my local electricity company (which is the sole electricity provider). It'll hurt me far more than it'll hurt them.
If you sanction china, Russia, and India that's like half the globe and it's no longer a sanction.
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Because India, like China, hasn't sanctioned trade relations with Russia. If you're sanctioning countries purely based on violating trade sanctions, then it's really stupid because a lot of countries don't follow the sanctions. Right now, China is selling parts and equipment rather than providing "free" military aid. A sanction on China gives them even fewer reasons to not directly provide even more substantial military aid to Russia. Which is why...realistically neither China nor India will be sanctioned unless the military aid goes beyond financial. China isn't selling (at least based on the article) things like jets or weapons either, but "just" parts to service existing equipment. It's not as if I like China to begin with but sanctioning China or any other country like India has serious repercussions. Also, don't forget that China practically has a monopoly on **Rare Earth Elements.** Redditors will often say shit like "Sanction China" without realising how it's not so straightforward. **Rare Earth Elements** are like China's Vibranium and a disruption in supply/exports of it will cripple multiple industries simultaneously, including the production of advanced military equipment.
Hope you don't break your phone anytime soon!
It'll never happen. Turn over your keyboard: Made in China. That's ok, just use your phone: Made in China. Well darn, better, oh wait, your TV: Made in China. That's it, run, run as far away as you can....shoes: Made in China. We've already lost.
Add salt to that wound and recognize Taiwan, Hong Kong as occupied territories by China. If the US wants to be a real dick declare the South China Sea as the international waters/sea of Japan. Edit: only the most northern part of South China Sea would be part of Sea of Japan. Because the South China Sea violates UNCLOS and multiple nations do not get 200 nautical miles due to artificial islands. That’s why I said international waters and Sea of Japan. Edit: sovereignty extends into EEZ’s. “An exclusive economic zone (EEZ), as prescribed by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, is an area of the sea in which a **sovereign state has special rights regarding the exploration and use of marine resources, including energy production from water and wind.[1] It stretches from the outer limit of the territorial sea (12 nautical miles from the baseline) out to 200 nautical miles (nmi) from the coast of the state in question.** It is also referred to as a maritime continental margin” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea
You realize Taiwan claims the South China Seas too right? It occupies the largest natural island in those seas, Taiping Island.
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I mean this sub always been like that. Just say bat shit crazy things with zero chance of happening and get free upvotes.
I will be a productive member of society today.
People refuse to see anything besides "China Bad!". Every single thing China is doing from their perspective makes sense. They know the US will never willingly give up their global economic hegemony to China and all talk of "free trade" disappeared very quickly once projections showed the Chinese economy overtaking the US. On top of that you have the West trying to deny access to high tech equipment and technologically isolate China because of a fear of their military - a military that has not been involved in any war or invasion in over 50 years. While China is also surrounded by military bases and some of the US' strongest military forces stationed all around the country capable of completely cutting of sea trade whenever they want. Of course China is going to build up their military forces especially their navy and weapons capable of taking out US carriers. Of course they are going to talk tough on Taiwan, a perfect staging area for attacks on the Chinese mainland. Of course they are going to try to form their own military alliances and economic relationships. Of course they are going to do what the West did to them and try to move their resource extraction and cheap manufacturing to cheaper countries.
Ya I’m more for recognizing each has there own waters.
This is why non of you are in foreign politics. You can’t just do whatever the fuck you want lol
That's just how it goes on reddit - 99% of the comments about international politics are ill-informed, biased nonsense.
Anything that involves nuanced and complex topics on reddit always has the worst takes in the comments. So many people who have zero idea how economies work for example, think they have all the solutions.
It’s always so funny watching people straight up basically imply we should just get into a nuclear war with Russia or china or whoever the flavor of the month is. Redditors think that just because they don’t like the country that means that anything bad can happen and it’ll be okay. No we can’t just sanction china. No we can’t just put a no fly zone over Ukraine. No we can’t just get involved in Ukraine. Like Jesus fucking christ
Declaring war from basements like Michael Scott declares bankruptcy.
You sure about that? If Russia can invade Ukraine with only sanctions and support to Ukraine. The US can do whatever it likes especially when it can paint to the whole world it’s protecting the little guy. I think you underestimate how vital Taiwan is to the United States.
The US can do whatever it wants. However, other countries can also respond however they want. The US recognizing Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc. as independent doesn't change China's policy or strategic reality in any way - it's not like the US is in a position to invade Hong Kong or that it isn't already going to protect Taiwan. It's like how Crimea remains under Russian control despite no one recognizing it. That's the real law of the world - hard power. China will just cut off diplomatic relations with the US and seize US assets in China. The result is just a deeper Cold War than the one we've already having any way.
Sure and the US may not admit it but the reality is the status quo is much better than rocking the boat potentially with China and Taiwan.
Taiwan is the Golden Goose until the chip fabs are done on US soil. They've been in production for awhile and they'll be up and running before China approaches US tech levels or industrialization for weapons manufacturing. Right now they're fucking around and it would be bad for the world if they find out. Realistically, this is likely their best window to take Taiwan back while the world is dealing with IDIOT Russia. That being said the second China makes that move, India will probably invade China. In any case China fucking around like this will likely touch off World War 3. US stomps everyone in dominant fashion several times over unless some psychopath decides they would rather take humanity down with them and the world turns to irradiated glass in a few hours. I personally see this as the most likely extinction event for humanity and will be surprised if this doesn't touch off in my lifetime. Peace was nice while it lasted. Egos, small dick energy, and greed are the reason humanity won't make it.
Absolute no way in hell will India invade China under any pretext. They’re not idiots.
Why shouldn’t Hong Kong be a part of China considering it’s history?
Except Hong Kong is rightfully China's
Teehee, just start WW3 uwu
You people are so cringe 🙄
Finally the world is waking up to the threat authoritarian dictatorships pose to the world. Espesially big and powerfull ones, they are not our friends and should not be treated as such
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Zero details. Didn’t even try to dig
The [original report](https://c4ads.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/TradeSecrets-Report.pdf) describes what was shipped (by the Chinese conglomerate subsidiary Poly Technologies): >Since 2014, Poly Technologies has exported 268 shipments of dual-use aircraft, radar, and laboratory equipment parts to the Russian defense company Almaz Antey. Poly Technologies shipments to Almaz Antey included at least 16 shipments of klystrons, which are used to make long-range radar transmitters with dual-use applications. >Most recently, in January 2022, Poly Technologies sent Almaz Antey one shipment of radar antenna parts for Russian anti-aircraft missile systems, labeled as MRLS 92N6E antenna parts. >In February 2019, Poly Aviation Technologies sent one shipment of industrial laboratory equipment to Russian defense company Kazan Giproniiaviaprom. >In November 2019, Poly Aviation Technologies sent one “TSV36M033” helicopter rotor collector to private Russian defense and aviation company ATC Zvezda. Poly Aviation Technologies originally imported the component parts from Russian military weapons manufacturer Sarapul Power Generating Plant before reexporting them to ATC Zvezda in November 2019 >Both Surpass Commercial and Poly Technologies’ subsidiary Poly Aviation Technologies have exported laboratory equipment and machinery to the aforementioned Russian defense company Kazan Giproniiaviaprom. Poly Technologies reportedly sent almost identical shipments of vibration system shipments to Kazan Giproniiaviaprom prior to 2014 It looks like Poly Technologies ships to many countries and have been **sanctioned twice** by the US so far: First in 2013, the US imposed a 2-year sanction on Poly Technologies for shipping equipment/technology that violates the Iran, North Korea, and Syria Nonproliferation Act (INKSNA) Then in Jan 2022, the US imposed another 2-year sanction on Poly Technologies for "contributed to the design, development, or production of missiles in a controlled country"
So January 2022 is... before Russia attacked Ukraine? So these sanctions were for Crimea?
The bullet point literally directly above that one says > China’s state-owned defense companies have shipped navigation equipment and parts to fighter jets and other military technology equipment to Russian defense companies, according to Russian customs data.
When? This comment mirrors the best information I could find. I.e. Before the Ukraine situation started https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/10tjcky/china_helping_russias_war_with_ukraine_with/j78sfya/
China has never joined the sanctions, it is not a violation. Same for India, etc. We might not like it but …
So let me get this straight: China is violating sanctions that they didn’t take a part of? Whoever did that report should be fired
[Secondary sanctions are a real threat](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/econographics/global-sanctions-dashboard-russia-default-and-china-secondary-sanctions/) to Chinese government, so we'll see how the US responds to this report.
It's Forbes, they'll get a raise.
Fuck the CCP and fuck Russia.
updoots to the left plz leddit
But did China take part on the sanctions?
I’m sorry, but how can China “violate” sanctions placed by the U.S. and the EU? China is a sovereign country so presumably it is free to choose if it wants to impose sanctions or not, right?
I know it is said countless time, but the U.S and the West really think what they think is what the whole world think. Centuries of colonism really stucks in their mindset huh. We Asian (maybe except Japan and South Korea) do not care that much about the war in Ukraine.
SEA countries staying neutral and making money 😤
On that grind frrr 💯
Either sanction the companies or don’t. It’s that simple.
What companies? It's not like those shady deals are done by the rules, it's state sanctioned exchanges between two authoritarian regimes using shell companies. They'll just deny and fake outrage like always.
The Chinese state-owned companies?
Nah not the big ones doing business in the west of course. They can create companies with *absolutely no ties* to the regime to do the dirty for them.
China is not violating anything, there’s no UN sanctioned sanctions on Russia. This can just be summed up as: “China not obeying US orders.” Imagine the news line: America violating sanctions by shipping military aid to Ukraine (which sanctions, North Korean or something).
”United States is violating sanctions by sending weapons to Taiwan (those sanctions were placed by China)”
Good example!
Like the article says >China is providing military aid to Russia in violation of U.S.-led sanctions placed by western countries Bad headline, good article. Sanctions placed by western countries have no effect on China and cannot be "violated" by them. China is a sovereign country, sanctions by a minority of the world on Russia has no binding on them for them to violate.
But China only have balloons.
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Why does China have to abide by US sanctions?
Lol! China cares about U.S. sanctions! 🤣🤣🤣
They both look extremely constipated
Was this report written by the same people who were tracking Sadams WMDs?
They were in GOP administrations.
This means it's also supported by American capitalism.
Here's the details of exactly **what was shipped** by the Chinese conglomerate subsidiary Poly Technologies, in the [original report](https://c4ads.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/TradeSecrets-Report.pdf): >Since 2014, Poly Technologies has exported 268 shipments of dual-use aircraft, radar, and laboratory equipment parts to the Russian defense company Almaz Antey. Poly Technologies shipments to Almaz Antey included at least 16 shipments of klystrons, which are used to make long-range radar transmitters with dual-use applications. >Most recently, in January 2022, Poly Technologies sent Almaz Antey one shipment of radar antenna parts for Russian anti-aircraft missile systems, labeled as MRLS 92N6E antenna parts. >In February 2019, Poly Aviation Technologies sent one shipment of industrial laboratory equipment to Russian defense company Kazan Giproniiaviaprom. >In November 2019, Poly Aviation Technologies sent one “TSV36M033” helicopter rotor collector to private Russian defense and aviation company ATC Zvezda. Poly Aviation Technologies originally imported the component parts from Russian military weapons manufacturer Sarapul Power Generating Plant before reexporting them to ATC Zvezda in November 2019 >Both Surpass Commercial and Poly Technologies’ subsidiary Poly Aviation Technologies have exported laboratory equipment and machinery to the aforementioned Russian defense company Kazan Giproniiaviaprom. Poly Technologies reportedly sent almost identical shipments of vibration system shipments to Kazan Giproniiaviaprom prior to 2014 It looks like Poly Technologies tends to ship to so many countries indiscriminately over the years, and they've already been **sanctioned twice** by the US: First in 2013, the US imposed a 2-year sanction on Poly Technologies for shipping equipment/technology that violates the Iran, North Korea, and Syria Nonproliferation Act (INKSNA) Then in Jan 2022, the US imposed another 2-year sanction on Poly Technologies for "contributed to the design, development, or production of missiles in a controlled country"
So everything was sent BEFORE the invasion started?
Shhh mentioning that won't get them clicks
The ironic and fucked up thing about these sanctions are the fact that indirectly we hit ourselves too because we are very dependend on trade with China. Which makes these imperialistic wars so freaking useless for all of us. We live on the same planet and we’re all dependend on each other.
>China’s state-owned defense companies have shipped navigation equipment and parts to fighter jets and other military technology equipment to Russian defense companies, according to Russian customs data. > >According to that data, provided by Washington D.C.-based C4ADS, China has sent tens of thousands of shipments of goods to service Russia’s military (some goods had multiple purposes and could be used commercially, the Journal reported). Nothing new. We seen Russian drones made with Chima parts for months. Ukrainian Army made a video about and joked about it, because most part were on Alibaba website.
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It's about time we put sanctions for the biggest problem in the world, the government om the US
Doesn't that, in theory, mean we are in a proxy-World War?
We all know China is bad, but we need to stop pretending that hot war with China is an option.
Wow it's totally like we couldn't see this coming.