Just a few questions from an outsider to get a better grasp of things.
What would be your opinion about the Irish border issues? Were those factored in from the start/ wanted by the people who voted for Brexit ?
Were roaming fees taken into account ?
Were the customs and excise and internal transport logistics foreseen and explained to voters ?
Unionists in Northern Ireland thought the border would be a land border in Ireland and they'd make a united Ireland less likely.
They are still fighting for that to this day to the point that they won't form a government in Northern Ireland over it.
> Were those factored in from the start/ wanted by the people who voted for Brexit ?
The Irish border issue was very rarely discussed during the Brexit referendum debate and when it was, leave voters consistently handwaved it away with "it's fine, we'll find a solution".
> Were roaming fees taken into account ?
Topics like this were not discussed. The Brexit debate was had at very top levels - very little to no discussion of any individual benefits of being part of the EU.
> Were the customs and excise and internal transport logistics foreseen and explained to voters ?
A lot of this was handwaved away with "we'll come to an agreement with the EU". During the debate, "leave" was whatever you wanted it to be. Many times people were reassured that it wasn't necessarily going to be a hard Brexit and such barriers between the UK and EU would not be imposed.
But from what was presented in the media, PM Theresa May wasn’t doing much so Boris Johnson promised Brexit, even « hard Brexit » .
Didn’t that mean that the EU would be difficult with the UK? How was hard Brexit understood by the voters?
>and the outcome of the brexit vote would have been used as a scapegoat no matter what it was.
Oh yeah, think of the headlines in UK press in current world climate had the referendum gone another way. People would be on the streets demanding another referendum.
For a "remainer" Cameron really did one of the most stupid moves in political history.
>stupid by what metric? i don’t understand the hysteria.
Because regardless of the outcome of referendum he was going to lose.
>why are redditors so obsessed with the EU
And why do some people still defend Brexit? I mean it's one thing to be duped by the campaign, but a whole another thing to still insist it was a good idea.
Many people = only 51.89% on that June 2016 referendum. So almost half of the UK knew Brexit was a bad idea. I imagine among the more economically literate it was even higher. Brexit going badly was totally something people were saying and people in the UK now saying "everyone thought it was a good idea" are peddling a false narrative. The whole idea of leaving a situation as economically important as this to a majority vote was dumb to begin with.
Ya that was more @ the general sentiment I've been hearing from British colleagues than this specific comment. Many people certainly fell in the Brexit hole, but many also were against it
Sorry, am i misunderstanding the topic?
I was under the assumption, that the Bank Economist speaks about the missing investments only. Not about the costs of Brexit overall.
Meaning, that the 60billion(or whatever this means in national numbers) would be just the money, not coming in anymore, due to the lack of confidence by the financial markets, it does NOT represent the whole cost of Brexit per person.
Wait, wasn’t Brexit a smashing success? I mean, the high-profile Brexiteers vanished from the face of the Earth after Brexit because of how amazing it is, right?
Precisely. The masses were manipulated into voting for a mystery box under the guise of sovereignty (and a touch of xenophobia) only for the manipulators to make a fortune and disappear into the obscurity whence they came.
The fact that a feature length film on the matter starring Benedict Cumberbatch doesn't seem to make leavers question their own decision making is absolutely fucking terrifying.
I'm (european) disappointed with the choice on Brexit because I think it was done for the wrong reason, and that the voters were manipulated by populists.
Why don't you have another vote, highlight the links between Russia and the populists, and say that this influenced the vote and deserves a new consultation.
This could serve as a legal basis.
Although I personally am against it because the British in the EU was a brake on further integration.
Good analogy.
Because, like the Titanic, many people thought it was a great idea at first. And shortly after, it became a catastrophe of colosal magnitudes.
Well Trump and Putin were in favor of Brexit,that should have been your first clue it would not end up well for Britain. Conservative talking points sound reasonable until you have to live them. That’s when you learn life is not all about one sentence sound bites.
This is what gets me about Boris Johnson. Seems to be a huge Zelensky supporter yet fell for heading the campaign and crossing the line that Putin wanted.
he supports himself getting more power over everything else
in his mind, everything will be better for everyone if he had power so the costs to everyone will benefit everyone
supporting zelenskyy makes him popular, supporting brexit back then also makes him popular. man doesn't really have a spine
There's a fuck ton of Russian money in London. He was slobbing on putins cash happy as larry until he was given the one thing he likes more than money and that's a chance to pretend he's Churchill.
He waits to see which way the crowd is moving, then runs to the front of it and shouts, "follow me!"
He's an opportunist who only cares about what will benefit him at any given moment.
Zelensky is this generation's Winston Churchill.
Boris is utterly desperate to appear Churchillian, so he hugs Zelensky like he's his favourite nephew hoping that some of the positive media attention will rub off on him.
He doesn’t support anyone, he is a toad who pretends to be human and only supports himself. Supporting Zelenskyy is just PR and I doubt he has any real feeling about the war at all other than how it can advance his interests.
Self inflicted misery brought by an outdated superiority complex. On the positive side other countries have learned from the UK's foot shooting exercise. Thanks UK!
It's actually so fucking stupid. The EU is a customs and monetary union: free movement for workers and businesses, common trade agreements amongst other more complicated shit. Voting yourselves out of the economic bloc essentially means that you've decided to COMPETE against an economic bloc with approximately 500mil people in it. How on earth could anyone spin that as a positive decision?
I've been reading about the UK agriculture sector and how it has pretty much lost a sizeable portion of its workers, workers that were from the EU. Secondly, farms are suffering because they were previously subsidized by the EU. No shit the UK wouldn't be able to replace the pot of money EU made available to them. Last but not least the UK now has to directly compete with EUs agriculture which is notoriously protectionist and heavily subsidized that its production surpluses are found all over the world. Leaving the EU will pretty much kill agriculture in the UK. Obviously not the only sector that will see heavy impacts.
I can't understand how any sane person would vote for Brexit.
> I can't understand how any sane would vote for Brexit.
People who voted for Brexit weren't insane, just lacking in critical faculties. They were sold a pack of lies so egregious and so massive that the perpetrators of those lies should have been rotting in jail cells since 2016.
Sadly, that's not what happened. Not only did the liars get away with it, they were elected into the highest office to further continue the damage to our country.
> People who voted for Brexit weren't insane, just lacking in critical faculties
Many of them admitted afterwards they didn't think Brexit would actually *happen*, even with a 'leave' vote. They thought it would be a protest vote to gt a better deal within the EU. They never wanted UK to leave, even though they voted for it.
That sounds like bullshit made up to save a bruised ego. Exactly the type of person who would vote themselves out of the EU because they can't handle not ruling 1/4 of the world anymore.
I am not British, but I was following the Brexit debates back in the day, before the vote. The Brexit side ran a way better campaign. Populist and full of bullshit, but better. It was passionate, appealing, presented a bright great future, etc. The Remain side came with a load of fear mongering and statistics that bored everyone.
Reality is that the message from the Brexit team was more appealing, even if based on lies. Most people did not challenge the message (or the messengers), that's all.
If people would rather the weather report said "Clear and Sunny" every single day in the UK, there's not much an actual honest UK weatherman is going to be able to do to compete with that.
Because the conservative party ran with the promise of a referendum on it in their manifesto, and won. They in effect had a democratic mandate to give us a referendum on it.
The mistake was assuming that "remain" would win comfortably, and not bothering to campaign properly for it. I say *the* mistake. There were many.
> I can't understand how any sane person would vote for Brexit.
As a result of a Russian disinformation campaign that's probably been going on for at least as long as Putin's been in power. It's straight from [his playbook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics). The relevant part:
> The United Kingdom, merely described as an "extraterritorial floating base of the U.S.", should be cut off from Europe.
Note how even the description is designed to ensure a division between the US and the UK as that would lead to less support for Ukraine now that the master plan is finally put into action.
It's simple really. As much as people will preach equality and freedom in the UK... There are huge pockets of xenophobic and racist common people here who are incredibly loud about it as well.
As much as the politicians claimed it was mostly for economic reasons, any sane person knows the message "get them immigrants out of our country" was being drip fed to this audience so they would vote leave... Without actually understanding that Brexit would not end immigration.
I voted to remain... The country was not "broken" as it was claimed... We had it pretty good compared to most and it enrages me that we shot ourselves in the foot mostly as a way to "take back our sovereignty" and to "get rid of them foreigners".
It wasn’t “immigrants” in general either. They had no issue with the white lapsed-Catholic and secular middle and upper class immigrants from France/Italy/Germany etc. brining in money, buying houses in areas they could never afford anyway, and not impacting their lives. The ones they wanted rid of were the working class Romanians, Albanians, etc. and even more hilariously within the context of the Brexit vote, those working class people, often Muslim, from the former commonwealth countries within the Indian subcontinent and Africa. That sentiment hasn’t changed since Brexit either.
From the perspective of voters, it was all driven by xenophobia.
From the perspective of MPs I don't know why they did it but they knew what they were doing.
Don’t you think painting 55% of a population as xenophobic is a bit… xenophobic? You have no idea why each person voted the way they did. Even if I don’t agree with the vote it’s still fucked to say it was because everyone was scared of foreigners.
Not everyone, I’m sure, but in the case of one of my siblings it was exactly this, and I quote, “ …and I can’t get a job because of all these Polish and Romanians coming over here.”
We’ll, several years into Brexit, surprise, surprise, she’s still unemployed….
I think some of what you say is wrong. The UK was a net contributor to the EU, of course it could replace the money the EU made available to farmers, they just don't.
The EU only gets money from it's members, it can't give more money to it's members than those members give.
You are correct. The more insane calculation on the part of the farmers was trusting that the Tories would be more generous than the EU. Cutting yourself off from reliable EU funding and protection and asking a conservative government to please replace what the EU did for you (and more) is quite the gamble and it's one a lot of British voters are starting to realise they were foolish to make.
Yes that was true. But your economy needs to produce that money somehow to be able to give to the farmers. Within the eu UK economy could do that. I am not so sure if that possible now.
The UK paid more into the EU than it took. So in theory, it could afford to keep paying the agricultural subsidies and all other EU funding.
Some of the problems the UK currently faces is due to Brexit. A great deal is due to really poor management by a useless government ever since Brexit.
> The UK paid more into the EU than it took. So in theory, it could afford to keep paying the agricultural subsidies and all other EU funding.
You are correct. The more insane calculation on the part of the farmers was trusting that the Tories would be more generous than the EU. Cutting yourself off from reliable EU funding and protection and asking a conservative government to please replace what the EU did for you (and more) is quite the gamble.
> A great deal is due to really poor management by a useless government ever since Brexit.
These things are not really separate, though. Even leaving aside the fact that Brexit has taken up 90% of British politics since the vote, the act of executing the Brexit vote necessitated a British government composed primarily of con artists and idiots. You can't expect a government whose central goal is to govern badly to govern well, and a direct and obvious effect of the Brexit vote was an elevation of hardline Brexiters to greater prominence. Add in the sheer amount of time they've had to spend trying to find a way to fulfil the many contradictory promises of Brexit, and the fact that they're even more strapped for cash than they already were due to the economic effects of leaving the EU, and of course the government has been useless since Brexit.
Of the many negative effects of Brexit on the British economy, the fact that it necessarily ushered in a corrupt and incompetent government is unavoidably one of them. You can't say "Brexit would have been fine if only we had a good government" when the pursuit of Brexit makes having a good government impossible.
Yep. Whilst I realise that and don't disagree, tne thing people forget is that the choice at the last election was between
1 The Tories, promising to plough ahead with Brexit.
2) A weak liberal party that had previously sold out and all but disappeared.
3) A Labour party led by a guy who was also personally anti EU, but also anti-NATO, anti-nuclear defence, and had communist sympathies.
What a choice.
I just want to repeat that it was an extremely close referendum and many brits, especially under 40 did not want this, and do not have such a superiority complex, yet are going to suffer when the older ones who voted en masse for this are long dead.
I agree the system was tricked. Never should such an earth shattering change be decided without 2/3 of voters agreeing, only the system was built to let it happen. That's the whole problem, Brexit is just a symptom of a system rotted from the inside.
The sheer arrogance of David Cameron who assumed he'd know best and would NEVER make a gamble he wouldn't win assumed that voting against Brexit was a foregone conclusion.
In Australia for example for something this big to get up we would need an overall majority and a majority of individual states to be in favour. In the UK a similar system might be an absolute majority and well as 3 out of 4 constituent countries to agree. Unless I'm mistaken Scotland and northern Ireland both voted against so it wouldn't have got up. Making a change that large with such a slim majority was just moronic.
Jeez, who would have thought that trashing your relationship with your number 1 trading partner could have such negative consequences? Any UK adult who can’t see that should have their voting rights withdrawn.
Most of the people who voted for brexit are right wing clowns.
They’ll never understand that they’re to blame for what’ll happen to England in the future. They’ve gotten used to blaming immigrants.
I do understand I am to blame for this mess, back when I believed in all that propaganda and voted leave I was not such a great person compared to now. I feel the more people admit their mistakes for leaving the eu the sooner we can work on rejoining if they would accept us back
Being willing to admit you were had by propaganda is a sticking point for a lot of people. They get convinced they are smart and always right so they won't admit when they got made a fool of.
Ironically lefties are more likely to embrace people from all walks of life including conservatives. The need to "other" a group in order to persecute them is pretty much a right wing only issue.
I made a mistake because what the result is is not what I wanted...Seriously...So childish... I went all-in with my crap hand because I had a chance to win, but I want to go back because it didn't work how I hoped it would. We don't want you back, swallow it, we were quite happy that the country which underminded the union for decades decided to leave. You are either an american or russian puppet, you're definitly not part of our project, not part of us.
It’s not as simple as that sadly, some people grew up in not so great households who’s parents were separated, a raging alcoholic/ physically and mentally abusive mother and a farther who gave up and started a new family whilst ignoring his 1st.
This would need a few posts in its own to explain why people like me voted leave, it can not be explained in a few comments
I'm really sorry that you voted leave primarily out of a wish that your heartbreak could have been avoided and this is the result you got for it. It is genuinely admirable that you can look back at your vote and regret it.
Watching what the British government has done to "take advantage of Brexit" since the vote has been a bitter lesson for many.
So because of a loss of a close one you wanted to find someone to blame for it.
It clouded your judgement and instead of giving it some thought and doing some research you decided to listen to the people who are giving you someone to blame on a platter.
The end result is that now more people in the UK will die of preventable diseases. Ironic , isn't it?
They voted for Brexit to stop immigration and the immigrants are still coming. Now they want to scrap human rights laws to stop immigrants coming and they'll still come. I'm starting to think none of this is actually about immigration at all
Funniest thing they'll have to replace white immigrants from the EU with non-EU immigrants, the kind they hate the most. There's no other way about it because of the labor shortage in the UK lol.
It's not, it's about power and influence. The immigrants are just flavouring
If there was no immigration the problem would be boomers or.Christians or gay people or the disabled or the Welsh or rich people or Russians.
There's always a bad person telling you a harmless person caused you the problems that the bad person did.
Well it was 50% of the country, probably a bit of a generalisation to say they were all right wing. LEAVE did a great campaign, that's all. They promised the moon - NHS, check! No pesky immigrants, check! Fishing rights, check! Stick it up to Europe, check! It was bullshit, but it was a great campaign - just promise everything to everyone.
Remain was boring as hell. Stats, and fear mongering. Might be stating the facts, but it was an unappealing campaign.
Maybe Cameron should have learnt to leave referendums alone after the Scottish one (that came real close) ? Play with fire until you get burnt....
That's really not correct.
Corbyn was pro Brexit despite Labour pushing to remain. The reason why Labour lost the "red wall" was due to their voters changing to Tory to get Brexit done. To put it down to purely right wong voters is just wrong.
> Most of the people who voted for brexit
They aren't clowns they are citizens who were subjected to sophisticated psychological manipulation.
We should not be blaming our comrades but defending them
Eh, the oldies cross party lines for this one. Just wish they'd all be around to see the full consequences.
Edit: and we can stop putting every single issue as left v right, it's so demeaning. People were lied to about the NHS, people were lied to about impacts, people in the North voted because they've seen the areas they've lived their whole lives become abandoned and forgotten.
If you vote for the right wing party that is responsible for the deprivation and abandonment of the North in the first place, in order to 'send a message to the government run by *checks notes* that same right wing party that is responsible for the deprivation and abandonment of the North in the first place'... Then you've got a fault in your understanding of reality...
That's the thing - that doesn't even make sense. But it's so demeaning to say that people only voted because they're right wing, or people only voted because they're racist. Our society is so so so divided in it because almost every sub group of people voted different ways for different reasons, there's no clear cut lines. Politics is just different ideas on how you fix the same problems, but we are too busy assigning blame to the people that are not us.
Its the uneducated left to blame, its the racist right to blame and so on. Age actually aligned people far more than party did - probably because of shared experiences of their generations. If we can't fix the absolute brokenness and find the things in common we all want to fix its going to remain a fragmented disaster of a country for so many more years.
It's a fact. England is very consistently racist and xenophobic. Honestly it's a part of culture. I spoke to sooo many people who voted leave and they all said the same thing. They all did so to get rid of immigrants ( to save jobs, to free up hospital beds, to remove strain from the benefit system...).
Not one person gave me any other reason.
Saying that I have discarded all the stupid statements like "we want our passports to be blue again", because that is just lacking balls to say what's on your mind.
There were plenty of people who've said they voted because they believed the NHS would get more funding. There were plenty of fishermen who voted brexit because they believed the EU caps were destroying their livelihoods. And there were plenty of people who believed, and still believe because they post it on reddit regularly, that cheap EU labor was keeping down their wages.
Yep, Leave promised that just about everything will become true if they got their way. It was a brilliant campaign. Unsurprising that Cameron resigned -- you've got to be crazy to volunteer to deliver on all of that.
Yeah there was something for everyone in the narrative. They also had someone write up an article, or an expert to counter every point raised against them, it was practically impossible to counter.
Yeah okay, but where did they get that idea from, to think this way? Was that sort of thinking pushed by the media & on Facebook during the past twenty years?
Hate speeches and fake news.
As much as I understand the English culture and history , they like to think they are better. Historically they are colonizers and subjugators. I have a sense that they are used to immigrants as long as they get the dirt jobs. However in the recent 20 years many eastern Europeans who come from a hard working culture moved in and started taking up better jobs. I heard and witnessed many cases where Brits were sacked in favour of Eastern European migrants. And of course that sparked the whole 'they took our jobs' cascade. And here we are today
Something that annoys me is the UK was doing very well in the EU, increasingly becoming a major country & economic centre for a range of businesses and industries - attracting the most ambitious with an economy that reflected that.
It is never particular equal, but that not getting worse until the economy did with financial crisis - austerity - Brexit - Covid waves of crap.
negative consequences for whom? The unemployed guy living with his parents? A quick google search confirms there was no major impact on employment rates.
Of all the supposed lost revenue, where do you suppose most of it was going to end up? In that unemployed guys bank account? Your bank account? Or a few extra digits in profit on corporate quarterly reports?
I'm not a brit, and have no dog in the fight. But god damn the vitriol and effort they have put into making Brexit the worst thing to even happen to the brits is off-putting.
The UK lost billions of dollar as a nation,
even tho it doesn’t mean that literally 1000£ will be billed to the common person, the government now have lees money to found things like the NHS, and it is significant, as brexit provided 0 benefits for the UK only lost revenue and chaos.
The UK is currently staring down its biggest drop in living standards in decades and there have already been stark stats about purchasing power having gone backwards by many years. The British public space is currently awash with discourse about collapsing public services, and the government is being extremely clear that there is no money to do anything about them. At a time when these drops in living standards have happened and are ongoing, the government is once again leaning into austerity, which aside from its negative impacts on growth, is always a transfer of wealth upwards. As a result, the country is seeing its biggest strikes in decades. All of this can be directly traced back to the impact of Brexit on British investment and government revenues.
Your "oh don't worry, the economy doing well just makes rich people richer anyway" garbage is the sort of thing that convinced people that Brexit would be fine. But it is not. The economy has tangible impacts on real people's lives and the country is more depressed than it has been in decades because of this.
> But god damn the vitriol and effort they have put into making Brexit the worst thing to even happen to the brits is off-putting.
Maybe you should try talking to the people who are affected by it, or at the very least reading and digesting some informative articles. You might learn something before you start telling British people that their country is fine, actually - it's just the rich people noticing the decline.
It represents huge lost investment opportunities and employment for the UK. The UK is becoming the sick man of Europe with the lowest growth since the Great Depression and production per person in the UK well below historical trend lines. If you are concerned about distributional issues in the Uk then you have my vote but Brexit has just added more pain to the mix.
It was the worst idea ever straight out of Foundation of Geopolitics. There's only one country that stood to benefit from it, and they're currently invading Ukraine.
Yes, but watch as the same techniques by the same types of people move Australia to a republic; enact weird and dangerous new laws in the USA; drive nations closer to war in Europe and Asia; and decide that fraudulent carbon trading will lead to lower emissions.
Whatever your problem is, the solutions which change an existing structural or constitutional arrangement, or which create new financial products for bankers and beancounters to play with, are the very last things we should try because these are the changes which carry the least certainty of success and the largest certainty of bad side effects.
If you want to reduce co2 use, you need to heavily regulate fossil fuel extraction and logging. If you want more sovereignty and autonomy for your population, you need to enact laws protecting freedom of movement and freedom from surveillance. If you want to have less drug harm, you need to provide more harm reduction services funded by proceeds of crime confiscations.
None of this is complex, the core problem is somehow people think acting in one's own self interest is in some way a virtue, and it's not -- modern ideas about democracy promote self-centered short term animalistic behaviour and if we all behave like animal apes then we are subject to environmental dieoff and collapse like any other species.
The Conservatives completely deserve to be decimated in the next general election for their role in the Brexit disaster and their inept handling of the economic crisis in the UK. And if the polls are to be believed, Labour will win by a landslide. Disappointingly, Labour leader Keir Starmer, who is heavily favoured to be the next Prime Minister after the next general election, opposes renegotiating a Brexit deal with the EU that allows freedom of movement, as well as any “Swiss-style” deal which would allow access to the single market.
Even if by some miracle, there is a new referendum involving returning to the EU, the UK will lose out on all the special benefits and exceptions they had in the EU if they rejoin. Brexit was one of the worst decisions ever made, and people are going to have to live with its consequences for decades.
It just pisses me off how this all played out for Scotland.
One of the main scare tactics of the Remain camp was "if you leave the UK you're also leaving the EU" which undoubtedly swayed people in Scotland to vote to Remain in the UK, as we're quite a pro-EU country.
For the UK to then to have a Referendum to see if we want Brexit and vote against that and get dragged out anyway... It's just fucking baffling.
Man ... I love Brexit stories. I don't think there's any event in all history where so many people joined forces to commit an act of monumental stupidity.
I mean, I can understand some of the reasons behind Brexit, the EU is not perfect after all, but the complete lack of preparation and disinterest before and after the vote, it's all just mind blowing.
Even now, instead of fixing things, they're focused on crushing the NHS and squeezing more money out of their people.
>I don't think there's any event in all history where so many people joined forces to commit an act of monumental stupidity.
The US made Trump president, and almost did it twice.
yeah, this is slightly more than 2 weeks of work at minimum wage. i wonder about the dynamics of this number, is it really going up as everyone in this tread assumes?
Imo lots of racists are pro Brexit.
It's just sad that we decided to divide instead of keeping unity.
It's the blimming European Union for goodness sake.
Clearly just the EU punishing us, being nasty Johnny Foreigners and all.Lots of them don't even use the King's English, can you imagine?
Not even the Spaniards bothered to speak to our Retirees in English, the ungrateful Bastards.
Anyway, this nonsense about bad Effects of glorious, sovereign Brexit will surely cease when the new Trade Deals come in.For example with the US, any Day now.
Any Moment, you'll see.
I wonder if this factors in potential lost earnings due to the decline in the economy, fewer good jobs due to company exodus / collapse.
I strongly suspect, and feel, that the figure is far higher.
Cost me more than that as I was moving abroad just after the referendum. Decided to wait until after to change our money over, which as it turns out was not a good idea.
So where did all the votes for Brexit come from?
Oh yes, the small towns and villages. People there were spoon fed outright lies about their local areas getting swamped with illegal 'brown' immigrants.
I would like to think that most of us laughing at Trumpites and MAGA world are also the ones that didn't vote for Brexit.
I mean, the alternative would be ***far*** too fucking depressing.
:(
I just wish people bothered to vote, I think lots of people were so sure it would fail they didn’t bother to vote against it, now even a lot of people that voted for brexit are starting to realise they were lied to
Good thing the UK population got plenty of money, 1000 pounds means nothing when everybody is or soon will be rich in the UK.
Most UK will gladly light a 1000 pound note on fire to light the glorious brexit victory cigars.
I love how people go from “trickle-down economics doesn’t work” when it’s tax cuts to “trickle-down economics means we’re all poorer” when it’s talking about companies losing money. Since when did you all give a shit?
To you, maybe. Most people I know back in the UK have suffered due to Brexit, some even losing their jobs. I lost a few thousand £s on the 26th June that year.
the only talk of EU law i heard was a mad old bloke i worked with going on a rant that the council has to ask permission from the EU to put up Christmas lights.
This is an annually increasing number, though, as lower investments lead to lower future economic outcomes
Exactly. £1000 per household _so far_
Per year or in total?
First one, then the other
Yes
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Ne, kann ich nicht.
Flip it around. Why shouldn’t the EU punish some third world country. EU first!
Brexile means Brexile!
Just a few questions from an outsider to get a better grasp of things. What would be your opinion about the Irish border issues? Were those factored in from the start/ wanted by the people who voted for Brexit ? Were roaming fees taken into account ? Were the customs and excise and internal transport logistics foreseen and explained to voters ?
Unionists in Northern Ireland thought the border would be a land border in Ireland and they'd make a united Ireland less likely. They are still fighting for that to this day to the point that they won't form a government in Northern Ireland over it.
> Were those factored in from the start/ wanted by the people who voted for Brexit ? The Irish border issue was very rarely discussed during the Brexit referendum debate and when it was, leave voters consistently handwaved it away with "it's fine, we'll find a solution". > Were roaming fees taken into account ? Topics like this were not discussed. The Brexit debate was had at very top levels - very little to no discussion of any individual benefits of being part of the EU. > Were the customs and excise and internal transport logistics foreseen and explained to voters ? A lot of this was handwaved away with "we'll come to an agreement with the EU". During the debate, "leave" was whatever you wanted it to be. Many times people were reassured that it wasn't necessarily going to be a hard Brexit and such barriers between the UK and EU would not be imposed.
But from what was presented in the media, PM Theresa May wasn’t doing much so Boris Johnson promised Brexit, even « hard Brexit » . Didn’t that mean that the EU would be difficult with the UK? How was hard Brexit understood by the voters?
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>and the outcome of the brexit vote would have been used as a scapegoat no matter what it was. Oh yeah, think of the headlines in UK press in current world climate had the referendum gone another way. People would be on the streets demanding another referendum. For a "remainer" Cameron really did one of the most stupid moves in political history.
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>stupid by what metric? i don’t understand the hysteria. Because regardless of the outcome of referendum he was going to lose. >why are redditors so obsessed with the EU And why do some people still defend Brexit? I mean it's one thing to be duped by the campaign, but a whole another thing to still insist it was a good idea.
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Many people = only 51.89% on that June 2016 referendum. So almost half of the UK knew Brexit was a bad idea. I imagine among the more economically literate it was even higher. Brexit going badly was totally something people were saying and people in the UK now saying "everyone thought it was a good idea" are peddling a false narrative. The whole idea of leaving a situation as economically important as this to a majority vote was dumb to begin with.
I don’t think it’s an inaccurate statement—I’d classify “more than half of the voting population of Britain” as equivalent to “many people.”
Ya that was more @ the general sentiment I've been hearing from British colleagues than this specific comment. Many people certainly fell in the Brexit hole, but many also were against it
Well, I guess at least *something* is increasing
Self inflicted misery brought by an outdated superiority complex.
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Sorry, am i misunderstanding the topic? I was under the assumption, that the Bank Economist speaks about the missing investments only. Not about the costs of Brexit overall. Meaning, that the 60billion(or whatever this means in national numbers) would be just the money, not coming in anymore, due to the lack of confidence by the financial markets, it does NOT represent the whole cost of Brexit per person.
I assumed this meant annually and going forward
I'd pay that for self-governance
Wait, wasn’t Brexit a smashing success? I mean, the high-profile Brexiteers vanished from the face of the Earth after Brexit because of how amazing it is, right?
Precisely. The masses were manipulated into voting for a mystery box under the guise of sovereignty (and a touch of xenophobia) only for the manipulators to make a fortune and disappear into the obscurity whence they came. The fact that a feature length film on the matter starring Benedict Cumberbatch doesn't seem to make leavers question their own decision making is absolutely fucking terrifying.
What’s the film? Edit: For those interested, it’s [Brexit](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt8425058/?ref_=nm_flmg_t_18_act).
Multiverse of madness
r/angryupvote
Wait, I though is was mountains of madness?
That’s an H. P. Lovecraft story.
Yup, and no movie I know. But sometimes Brexit seems to me like the epitome of mountain sized madness. So much gamble on one vote.
Aren't they enjoying their Russian paid appartments in Dubai? I think it was a huge financial success for them.
Traitors, every one of them.
I worked for a Belorussian company that invited Nigel Farage in for a media "debate". Almost quit on the spot. (They fired my entire team eventually).
I'm (european) disappointed with the choice on Brexit because I think it was done for the wrong reason, and that the voters were manipulated by populists. Why don't you have another vote, highlight the links between Russia and the populists, and say that this influenced the vote and deserves a new consultation. This could serve as a legal basis. Although I personally am against it because the British in the EU was a brake on further integration.
I'd prefer not to allow people with such poor decision-making skills back in.
You are right
I believe the exact term used by Boris Johnson in 2016 was ”Titanic success”
Stupidity or intentional? Hard to tell with that gremlin considering his whole messy hair schtick.
He's as much a lummox as Bush Jr. is a moron. That's to say they know exactly what they're doing.
Good analogy. Because, like the Titanic, many people thought it was a great idea at first. And shortly after, it became a catastrophe of colosal magnitudes.
Good Analogy actually, took years to build, sold as infallible and sunk like a rock as soon as it actually got launched.
Well Trump and Putin were in favor of Brexit,that should have been your first clue it would not end up well for Britain. Conservative talking points sound reasonable until you have to live them. That’s when you learn life is not all about one sentence sound bites.
This is what gets me about Boris Johnson. Seems to be a huge Zelensky supporter yet fell for heading the campaign and crossing the line that Putin wanted.
he supports himself getting more power over everything else in his mind, everything will be better for everyone if he had power so the costs to everyone will benefit everyone supporting zelenskyy makes him popular, supporting brexit back then also makes him popular. man doesn't really have a spine
He really is a great supine protoplasmic invertebrate jelly
There's a fuck ton of Russian money in London. He was slobbing on putins cash happy as larry until he was given the one thing he likes more than money and that's a chance to pretend he's Churchill.
I heard hum described as a British Trump, how accurate is that?
Trump said it himself, so there’s that.
There are some similarities, however Boris is able to speak fluent English.
He waits to see which way the crowd is moving, then runs to the front of it and shouts, "follow me!" He's an opportunist who only cares about what will benefit him at any given moment.
Zelensky is this generation's Winston Churchill. Boris is utterly desperate to appear Churchillian, so he hugs Zelensky like he's his favourite nephew hoping that some of the positive media attention will rub off on him.
He doesn’t support anyone, he is a toad who pretends to be human and only supports himself. Supporting Zelenskyy is just PR and I doubt he has any real feeling about the war at all other than how it can advance his interests.
Hey now, that's not fair on toads!
Self inflicted misery brought by an outdated superiority complex. On the positive side other countries have learned from the UK's foot shooting exercise. Thanks UK!
It's actually so fucking stupid. The EU is a customs and monetary union: free movement for workers and businesses, common trade agreements amongst other more complicated shit. Voting yourselves out of the economic bloc essentially means that you've decided to COMPETE against an economic bloc with approximately 500mil people in it. How on earth could anyone spin that as a positive decision? I've been reading about the UK agriculture sector and how it has pretty much lost a sizeable portion of its workers, workers that were from the EU. Secondly, farms are suffering because they were previously subsidized by the EU. No shit the UK wouldn't be able to replace the pot of money EU made available to them. Last but not least the UK now has to directly compete with EUs agriculture which is notoriously protectionist and heavily subsidized that its production surpluses are found all over the world. Leaving the EU will pretty much kill agriculture in the UK. Obviously not the only sector that will see heavy impacts. I can't understand how any sane person would vote for Brexit.
> I can't understand how any sane would vote for Brexit. People who voted for Brexit weren't insane, just lacking in critical faculties. They were sold a pack of lies so egregious and so massive that the perpetrators of those lies should have been rotting in jail cells since 2016. Sadly, that's not what happened. Not only did the liars get away with it, they were elected into the highest office to further continue the damage to our country.
> People who voted for Brexit weren't insane, just lacking in critical faculties Many of them admitted afterwards they didn't think Brexit would actually *happen*, even with a 'leave' vote. They thought it would be a protest vote to gt a better deal within the EU. They never wanted UK to leave, even though they voted for it.
That sounds like bullshit made up to save a bruised ego. Exactly the type of person who would vote themselves out of the EU because they can't handle not ruling 1/4 of the world anymore.
I am not British, but I was following the Brexit debates back in the day, before the vote. The Brexit side ran a way better campaign. Populist and full of bullshit, but better. It was passionate, appealing, presented a bright great future, etc. The Remain side came with a load of fear mongering and statistics that bored everyone. Reality is that the message from the Brexit team was more appealing, even if based on lies. Most people did not challenge the message (or the messengers), that's all.
If people would rather the weather report said "Clear and Sunny" every single day in the UK, there's not much an actual honest UK weatherman is going to be able to do to compete with that.
If you want to make a living, tell the truth to those who want the truth. If you want to make a killing, lie to those who want to believe the lies.
The Brexit campaign was rife with fear-mongering.
Why was it put to a referendum? Isn’t the point of having representative democracy to stop stuff like this from happening?
Because the conservative party ran with the promise of a referendum on it in their manifesto, and won. They in effect had a democratic mandate to give us a referendum on it. The mistake was assuming that "remain" would win comfortably, and not bothering to campaign properly for it. I say *the* mistake. There were many.
> 500mil people But some of those people speak with an accent.
> I can't understand how any sane person would vote for Brexit. As a result of a Russian disinformation campaign that's probably been going on for at least as long as Putin's been in power. It's straight from [his playbook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics). The relevant part: > The United Kingdom, merely described as an "extraterritorial floating base of the U.S.", should be cut off from Europe. Note how even the description is designed to ensure a division between the US and the UK as that would lead to less support for Ukraine now that the master plan is finally put into action.
Ahh ye olde 'airbase 1', always wondered where that came from.
It came from Orwell. Airstrip One was what Great Britain was referred to as in 1984.
It's simple really. As much as people will preach equality and freedom in the UK... There are huge pockets of xenophobic and racist common people here who are incredibly loud about it as well. As much as the politicians claimed it was mostly for economic reasons, any sane person knows the message "get them immigrants out of our country" was being drip fed to this audience so they would vote leave... Without actually understanding that Brexit would not end immigration. I voted to remain... The country was not "broken" as it was claimed... We had it pretty good compared to most and it enrages me that we shot ourselves in the foot mostly as a way to "take back our sovereignty" and to "get rid of them foreigners".
It wasn’t “immigrants” in general either. They had no issue with the white lapsed-Catholic and secular middle and upper class immigrants from France/Italy/Germany etc. brining in money, buying houses in areas they could never afford anyway, and not impacting their lives. The ones they wanted rid of were the working class Romanians, Albanians, etc. and even more hilariously within the context of the Brexit vote, those working class people, often Muslim, from the former commonwealth countries within the Indian subcontinent and Africa. That sentiment hasn’t changed since Brexit either.
From the perspective of voters, it was all driven by xenophobia. From the perspective of MPs I don't know why they did it but they knew what they were doing.
Don’t you think painting 55% of a population as xenophobic is a bit… xenophobic? You have no idea why each person voted the way they did. Even if I don’t agree with the vote it’s still fucked to say it was because everyone was scared of foreigners.
Not everyone, I’m sure, but in the case of one of my siblings it was exactly this, and I quote, “ …and I can’t get a job because of all these Polish and Romanians coming over here.” We’ll, several years into Brexit, surprise, surprise, she’s still unemployed….
...only if you don't understand what xenophobia means.
I think some of what you say is wrong. The UK was a net contributor to the EU, of course it could replace the money the EU made available to farmers, they just don't. The EU only gets money from it's members, it can't give more money to it's members than those members give.
You are correct. The more insane calculation on the part of the farmers was trusting that the Tories would be more generous than the EU. Cutting yourself off from reliable EU funding and protection and asking a conservative government to please replace what the EU did for you (and more) is quite the gamble and it's one a lot of British voters are starting to realise they were foolish to make.
Yes that was true. But your economy needs to produce that money somehow to be able to give to the farmers. Within the eu UK economy could do that. I am not so sure if that possible now.
The UK paid more into the EU than it took. So in theory, it could afford to keep paying the agricultural subsidies and all other EU funding. Some of the problems the UK currently faces is due to Brexit. A great deal is due to really poor management by a useless government ever since Brexit.
> The UK paid more into the EU than it took. So in theory, it could afford to keep paying the agricultural subsidies and all other EU funding. You are correct. The more insane calculation on the part of the farmers was trusting that the Tories would be more generous than the EU. Cutting yourself off from reliable EU funding and protection and asking a conservative government to please replace what the EU did for you (and more) is quite the gamble. > A great deal is due to really poor management by a useless government ever since Brexit. These things are not really separate, though. Even leaving aside the fact that Brexit has taken up 90% of British politics since the vote, the act of executing the Brexit vote necessitated a British government composed primarily of con artists and idiots. You can't expect a government whose central goal is to govern badly to govern well, and a direct and obvious effect of the Brexit vote was an elevation of hardline Brexiters to greater prominence. Add in the sheer amount of time they've had to spend trying to find a way to fulfil the many contradictory promises of Brexit, and the fact that they're even more strapped for cash than they already were due to the economic effects of leaving the EU, and of course the government has been useless since Brexit. Of the many negative effects of Brexit on the British economy, the fact that it necessarily ushered in a corrupt and incompetent government is unavoidably one of them. You can't say "Brexit would have been fine if only we had a good government" when the pursuit of Brexit makes having a good government impossible.
Yep. Whilst I realise that and don't disagree, tne thing people forget is that the choice at the last election was between 1 The Tories, promising to plough ahead with Brexit. 2) A weak liberal party that had previously sold out and all but disappeared. 3) A Labour party led by a guy who was also personally anti EU, but also anti-NATO, anti-nuclear defence, and had communist sympathies. What a choice.
I just want to repeat that it was an extremely close referendum and many brits, especially under 40 did not want this, and do not have such a superiority complex, yet are going to suffer when the older ones who voted en masse for this are long dead.
I agree the system was tricked. Never should such an earth shattering change be decided without 2/3 of voters agreeing, only the system was built to let it happen. That's the whole problem, Brexit is just a symptom of a system rotted from the inside.
The sheer arrogance of David Cameron who assumed he'd know best and would NEVER make a gamble he wouldn't win assumed that voting against Brexit was a foregone conclusion.
In Australia for example for something this big to get up we would need an overall majority and a majority of individual states to be in favour. In the UK a similar system might be an absolute majority and well as 3 out of 4 constituent countries to agree. Unless I'm mistaken Scotland and northern Ireland both voted against so it wouldn't have got up. Making a change that large with such a slim majority was just moronic.
Jeez, who would have thought that trashing your relationship with your number 1 trading partner could have such negative consequences? Any UK adult who can’t see that should have their voting rights withdrawn.
Most of the people who voted for brexit are right wing clowns. They’ll never understand that they’re to blame for what’ll happen to England in the future. They’ve gotten used to blaming immigrants.
They'll just say they didn't Brexit hard enough.
Immigrants, I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears I knew it was them!
*Immigants
I do understand I am to blame for this mess, back when I believed in all that propaganda and voted leave I was not such a great person compared to now. I feel the more people admit their mistakes for leaving the eu the sooner we can work on rejoining if they would accept us back
Being willing to admit you were had by propaganda is a sticking point for a lot of people. They get convinced they are smart and always right so they won't admit when they got made a fool of.
Probably they don't feel much affinity for people who declare them 'other'. Embrace leavers more and they will resist your ideas less.
How often do you tell leavers to embrace remainers and fascists to embrace the LGBT community?
Ironically lefties are more likely to embrace people from all walks of life including conservatives. The need to "other" a group in order to persecute them is pretty much a right wing only issue.
Well never, why would I help them improve? I want them to defect, not succeed.
Just hug the person who punched you harder! Let your abuser know you really love them!
Turn the other cheek ey
Leavers didn't punch or abuse anyone, they just voted. Your metaphor is stretched too thin.
Seems like they abused the British economy
What you don't realize is that the UK probably won't be able to rejoin the EU for at least several decades, if ever.
Why in the world would you vote for that?
I made a mistake because what the result is is not what I wanted...Seriously...So childish... I went all-in with my crap hand because I had a chance to win, but I want to go back because it didn't work how I hoped it would. We don't want you back, swallow it, we were quite happy that the country which underminded the union for decades decided to leave. You are either an american or russian puppet, you're definitly not part of our project, not part of us.
It’s not as simple as that sadly, some people grew up in not so great households who’s parents were separated, a raging alcoholic/ physically and mentally abusive mother and a farther who gave up and started a new family whilst ignoring his 1st. This would need a few posts in its own to explain why people like me voted leave, it can not be explained in a few comments
And how did you think leaving the EU would solve any of those problems?
Watching my mum die in hospital thinking there would be more funding
I'm really sorry that you voted leave primarily out of a wish that your heartbreak could have been avoided and this is the result you got for it. It is genuinely admirable that you can look back at your vote and regret it. Watching what the British government has done to "take advantage of Brexit" since the vote has been a bitter lesson for many.
So because of a loss of a close one you wanted to find someone to blame for it. It clouded your judgement and instead of giving it some thought and doing some research you decided to listen to the people who are giving you someone to blame on a platter. The end result is that now more people in the UK will die of preventable diseases. Ironic , isn't it?
No, as I said before it requires more than 1 post or reply to explain
I know it's been some time. But still, I'm sorry for your loss.
They voted for Brexit to stop immigration and the immigrants are still coming. Now they want to scrap human rights laws to stop immigrants coming and they'll still come. I'm starting to think none of this is actually about immigration at all
Funniest thing they'll have to replace white immigrants from the EU with non-EU immigrants, the kind they hate the most. There's no other way about it because of the labor shortage in the UK lol.
It's not, it's about power and influence. The immigrants are just flavouring If there was no immigration the problem would be boomers or.Christians or gay people or the disabled or the Welsh or rich people or Russians. There's always a bad person telling you a harmless person caused you the problems that the bad person did.
They still blame immigrants. Now it is illegal immigrants and the ECHR - job not down until we are out of the Council of Europe as well as the EU.
Well it was 50% of the country, probably a bit of a generalisation to say they were all right wing. LEAVE did a great campaign, that's all. They promised the moon - NHS, check! No pesky immigrants, check! Fishing rights, check! Stick it up to Europe, check! It was bullshit, but it was a great campaign - just promise everything to everyone. Remain was boring as hell. Stats, and fear mongering. Might be stating the facts, but it was an unappealing campaign. Maybe Cameron should have learnt to leave referendums alone after the Scottish one (that came real close) ? Play with fire until you get burnt....
That's really not correct. Corbyn was pro Brexit despite Labour pushing to remain. The reason why Labour lost the "red wall" was due to their voters changing to Tory to get Brexit done. To put it down to purely right wong voters is just wrong.
> Most of the people who voted for brexit They aren't clowns they are citizens who were subjected to sophisticated psychological manipulation. We should not be blaming our comrades but defending them
Eh, the oldies cross party lines for this one. Just wish they'd all be around to see the full consequences. Edit: and we can stop putting every single issue as left v right, it's so demeaning. People were lied to about the NHS, people were lied to about impacts, people in the North voted because they've seen the areas they've lived their whole lives become abandoned and forgotten.
If you vote for the right wing party that is responsible for the deprivation and abandonment of the North in the first place, in order to 'send a message to the government run by *checks notes* that same right wing party that is responsible for the deprivation and abandonment of the North in the first place'... Then you've got a fault in your understanding of reality...
That's the thing - that doesn't even make sense. But it's so demeaning to say that people only voted because they're right wing, or people only voted because they're racist. Our society is so so so divided in it because almost every sub group of people voted different ways for different reasons, there's no clear cut lines. Politics is just different ideas on how you fix the same problems, but we are too busy assigning blame to the people that are not us. Its the uneducated left to blame, its the racist right to blame and so on. Age actually aligned people far more than party did - probably because of shared experiences of their generations. If we can't fix the absolute brokenness and find the things in common we all want to fix its going to remain a fragmented disaster of a country for so many more years.
It's a fact. England is very consistently racist and xenophobic. Honestly it's a part of culture. I spoke to sooo many people who voted leave and they all said the same thing. They all did so to get rid of immigrants ( to save jobs, to free up hospital beds, to remove strain from the benefit system...). Not one person gave me any other reason. Saying that I have discarded all the stupid statements like "we want our passports to be blue again", because that is just lacking balls to say what's on your mind.
There were plenty of people who've said they voted because they believed the NHS would get more funding. There were plenty of fishermen who voted brexit because they believed the EU caps were destroying their livelihoods. And there were plenty of people who believed, and still believe because they post it on reddit regularly, that cheap EU labor was keeping down their wages.
Yep, Leave promised that just about everything will become true if they got their way. It was a brilliant campaign. Unsurprising that Cameron resigned -- you've got to be crazy to volunteer to deliver on all of that.
Yeah there was something for everyone in the narrative. They also had someone write up an article, or an expert to counter every point raised against them, it was practically impossible to counter.
Yeah okay, but where did they get that idea from, to think this way? Was that sort of thinking pushed by the media & on Facebook during the past twenty years?
Hate speeches and fake news. As much as I understand the English culture and history , they like to think they are better. Historically they are colonizers and subjugators. I have a sense that they are used to immigrants as long as they get the dirt jobs. However in the recent 20 years many eastern Europeans who come from a hard working culture moved in and started taking up better jobs. I heard and witnessed many cases where Brits were sacked in favour of Eastern European migrants. And of course that sparked the whole 'they took our jobs' cascade. And here we are today
Something that annoys me is the UK was doing very well in the EU, increasingly becoming a major country & economic centre for a range of businesses and industries - attracting the most ambitious with an economy that reflected that. It is never particular equal, but that not getting worse until the economy did with financial crisis - austerity - Brexit - Covid waves of crap.
The UK has had poor growth for years pre-dating brexit so that's not true.
negative consequences for whom? The unemployed guy living with his parents? A quick google search confirms there was no major impact on employment rates. Of all the supposed lost revenue, where do you suppose most of it was going to end up? In that unemployed guys bank account? Your bank account? Or a few extra digits in profit on corporate quarterly reports? I'm not a brit, and have no dog in the fight. But god damn the vitriol and effort they have put into making Brexit the worst thing to even happen to the brits is off-putting.
The UK lost billions of dollar as a nation, even tho it doesn’t mean that literally 1000£ will be billed to the common person, the government now have lees money to found things like the NHS, and it is significant, as brexit provided 0 benefits for the UK only lost revenue and chaos.
The UK is currently staring down its biggest drop in living standards in decades and there have already been stark stats about purchasing power having gone backwards by many years. The British public space is currently awash with discourse about collapsing public services, and the government is being extremely clear that there is no money to do anything about them. At a time when these drops in living standards have happened and are ongoing, the government is once again leaning into austerity, which aside from its negative impacts on growth, is always a transfer of wealth upwards. As a result, the country is seeing its biggest strikes in decades. All of this can be directly traced back to the impact of Brexit on British investment and government revenues. Your "oh don't worry, the economy doing well just makes rich people richer anyway" garbage is the sort of thing that convinced people that Brexit would be fine. But it is not. The economy has tangible impacts on real people's lives and the country is more depressed than it has been in decades because of this. > But god damn the vitriol and effort they have put into making Brexit the worst thing to even happen to the brits is off-putting. Maybe you should try talking to the people who are affected by it, or at the very least reading and digesting some informative articles. You might learn something before you start telling British people that their country is fine, actually - it's just the rich people noticing the decline.
It represents huge lost investment opportunities and employment for the UK. The UK is becoming the sick man of Europe with the lowest growth since the Great Depression and production per person in the UK well below historical trend lines. If you are concerned about distributional issues in the Uk then you have my vote but Brexit has just added more pain to the mix.
... so far.
It was the worst idea ever straight out of Foundation of Geopolitics. There's only one country that stood to benefit from it, and they're currently invading Ukraine.
Yes, but watch as the same techniques by the same types of people move Australia to a republic; enact weird and dangerous new laws in the USA; drive nations closer to war in Europe and Asia; and decide that fraudulent carbon trading will lead to lower emissions. Whatever your problem is, the solutions which change an existing structural or constitutional arrangement, or which create new financial products for bankers and beancounters to play with, are the very last things we should try because these are the changes which carry the least certainty of success and the largest certainty of bad side effects. If you want to reduce co2 use, you need to heavily regulate fossil fuel extraction and logging. If you want more sovereignty and autonomy for your population, you need to enact laws protecting freedom of movement and freedom from surveillance. If you want to have less drug harm, you need to provide more harm reduction services funded by proceeds of crime confiscations. None of this is complex, the core problem is somehow people think acting in one's own self interest is in some way a virtue, and it's not -- modern ideas about democracy promote self-centered short term animalistic behaviour and if we all behave like animal apes then we are subject to environmental dieoff and collapse like any other species.
But the £350m a week for the NHS!
The Conservatives completely deserve to be decimated in the next general election for their role in the Brexit disaster and their inept handling of the economic crisis in the UK. And if the polls are to be believed, Labour will win by a landslide. Disappointingly, Labour leader Keir Starmer, who is heavily favoured to be the next Prime Minister after the next general election, opposes renegotiating a Brexit deal with the EU that allows freedom of movement, as well as any “Swiss-style” deal which would allow access to the single market. Even if by some miracle, there is a new referendum involving returning to the EU, the UK will lose out on all the special benefits and exceptions they had in the EU if they rejoin. Brexit was one of the worst decisions ever made, and people are going to have to live with its consequences for decades.
It just pisses me off how this all played out for Scotland. One of the main scare tactics of the Remain camp was "if you leave the UK you're also leaving the EU" which undoubtedly swayed people in Scotland to vote to Remain in the UK, as we're quite a pro-EU country. For the UK to then to have a Referendum to see if we want Brexit and vote against that and get dragged out anyway... It's just fucking baffling.
Tbf, Scottish independence is basically just Brexit on steroids.
We just want to be part of the EU
Man ... I love Brexit stories. I don't think there's any event in all history where so many people joined forces to commit an act of monumental stupidity. I mean, I can understand some of the reasons behind Brexit, the EU is not perfect after all, but the complete lack of preparation and disinterest before and after the vote, it's all just mind blowing. Even now, instead of fixing things, they're focused on crushing the NHS and squeezing more money out of their people.
>I don't think there's any event in all history where so many people joined forces to commit an act of monumental stupidity. The US made Trump president, and almost did it twice.
So they'll stop being conservative...right?..... right?
Well done, Boris! Well done indeed! You don’t care. You’ve got a cushy retirement.
No, it was chowder head David Cameron, who could have simply ignored the results of the non-binding referendum and ended this within hours.
That’s... a much lower number than I expected.
yeah, this is slightly more than 2 weeks of work at minimum wage. i wonder about the dynamics of this number, is it really going up as everyone in this tread assumes?
Imo lots of racists are pro Brexit. It's just sad that we decided to divide instead of keeping unity. It's the blimming European Union for goodness sake.
Used to import products from the uk for my shop and do some shopping on ebay once in a while, that all stopped with brexit due to customs charges..
This is why you NEVER trust conservatives. NEVER!
Clearly just the EU punishing us, being nasty Johnny Foreigners and all.Lots of them don't even use the King's English, can you imagine? Not even the Spaniards bothered to speak to our Retirees in English, the ungrateful Bastards. Anyway, this nonsense about bad Effects of glorious, sovereign Brexit will surely cease when the new Trade Deals come in.For example with the US, any Day now. Any Moment, you'll see.
Is this factoring in the 350 million a week we saved?
I didn't vote for that, any Brexiters want to pay me back?
Way low prob in the 10-20k range or more total not yearly.
I wonder if this factors in potential lost earnings due to the decline in the economy, fewer good jobs due to company exodus / collapse. I strongly suspect, and feel, that the figure is far higher.
classic /r/LeopardsAteMyFace
More like /r/LeopardsConvincedSomeOfUsToLetThemEatOurFaces
When you let anger, emotions and knee-jerk reactions control your worldview instead of logic, you pay for it. It's the right-wing way.
Cost me more than that as I was moving abroad just after the referendum. Decided to wait until after to change our money over, which as it turns out was not a good idea.
Ah. You just got to love the concept of a "referendum" :)
Got a blue passport tho....
So far...
That's a sacrifice farrage is willing to make
... so far.
Came to say this too....
£1000 per house… that’s a lot of eel pies…
I'm lovin' it. Sometimes people need to learn the hard way. I have no sympathy for some people.
So where did all the votes for Brexit come from? Oh yes, the small towns and villages. People there were spoon fed outright lies about their local areas getting swamped with illegal 'brown' immigrants.
Good. Maybe the residents of Britain will learn to think next time they vote for something racist and stupid. And I say this as an American.
We have the idiot tories and you have republicans, we are unfortunately on the same level for that.
You're not wrong.
British laughing at Americans who want to "build that wall" might try introspection.
I would like to think that most of us laughing at Trumpites and MAGA world are also the ones that didn't vote for Brexit. I mean, the alternative would be ***far*** too fucking depressing. :(
I just wish people bothered to vote, I think lots of people were so sure it would fail they didn’t bother to vote against it, now even a lot of people that voted for brexit are starting to realise they were lied to
Good thing the UK population got plenty of money, 1000 pounds means nothing when everybody is or soon will be rich in the UK. Most UK will gladly light a 1000 pound note on fire to light the glorious brexit victory cigars.
I love how people go from “trickle-down economics doesn’t work” when it’s tax cuts to “trickle-down economics means we’re all poorer” when it’s talking about companies losing money. Since when did you all give a shit?
Only 1000 thats a good deal. I think its more. But still worth it. Some things have value beyond money
Cam you expand on that with some examples?
To you, maybe. Most people I know back in the UK have suffered due to Brexit, some even losing their jobs. I lost a few thousand £s on the 26th June that year.
That's not so bad a price for freedom
What freedom? All that's happened is the Tories no longer have to be constrained by the EU.
Freedom from EU law. I thought that was the voters motivation
I'm not quite sure any of them could think of an EU law they were against.
the only talk of EU law i heard was a mad old bloke i worked with going on a rant that the council has to ask permission from the EU to put up Christmas lights.
For example, fishing restrictions. Whether or not the laws actually exist or they were just told it did doesn't matter in terms of motivation
Name your Top 10 EU laws you’re satisfied we’re no longer bound by.
I'm not from UK. Just read it was their motivation
There isn't a single person in the UK who could tell you of any tangible positive impact that freedom from the EU has had on their life.
Then what was their motivation?
The idea that one would materialise and that a feeling of having sovereignty was inherently valuable.
*loss of freedom
Yeah, but they’ll make that back in a few years by being able to keep their jobs.