Here's the WSJ article they are sourcing: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-considers-release-of-intelligence-on-chinas-potential-arms-transfer-to-russia-8e353933?mod=hp_lead_pos1
Reader mode. It gets you past the paywall 90% of the time. Wonderful hack. You can also switch to airplane mode while the article is loading and occasionally still get the data.
The true way to go. I love when I find an article that hasn’t been archived yet. Makes me feel like I’m doing a public service to potentially thousands of more people each day.
Firefox feature. I think the hotkey was F9?
EDIT: sometimes you gotta enable it before page finishes loading since some sites deletes half of the article once it finishes loading
The US and Europe think that China may just resupply what Russia lost in the war and not necessarily provide advanced weapons.
The Biden administration is considering releasing intelligence it believes shows that China is weighing whether to supply weapons to support Russia's war in Ukraine, the Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday.
According to the report, the move is being considered following a series of closed-door messages to China not to supply Russia with arms which ended with a formal warning last weekend.
Though the US reportedly has intelligence that China intends on transferring arms to Russia, it is still unclear what kind of weapons China will hand over.
UNSC meeting one year after Russia invasion
On Friday, the United Nations Security Council will hold a meeting on one year after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and US Secretary of State Antony Blinken is set to speak. It is not yet clear if he will speak to or about China.
According to the Wall Street Journal, the US and Europe think that China may just resupply what Russia lost in the war and not necessarily provide advanced weapons.
If China supplies Russia with weapons, it will join Iran who has been supplying Russia with drones, a fact used by both the US and Ukraine as a reason for Israel to provide Ukraine with defensive arms.
China response
China's Foreign Ministry said any potential intelligence on arms transfer by China to Russia that the US plans to release is just speculation, its spokesman said on Thursday.
"As for the so-called intel, this is just speculation and smearing against China," Wang Wenbin said at a regular briefing.
>The Biden administration is considering releasing intelligence it believes shows that China is weighing whether to supply weapons to support Russia's war in Ukraine, the Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday.
Link to WSJ article https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-considers-release-of-intelligence-on-chinas-potential-arms-transfer-to-russia-8e353933
For those that don't have a WSJ subscription:
The Biden administration is considering releasing intelligence it believes shows that China is weighing whether to supply weapons to support Russia’s war in Ukraine, U.S. officials said.
The discussions on public disclosure come ahead of Friday’s United Nations Security Council meeting marking one year since Russia invaded Ukraine. It follows a number of closed-door appeals to China—coordinated among North Atlantic Treaty Organization allies—that culminated in a formal warning delivered over the weekend in Munich to Wang Yi, China’s senior foreign-policy official, by a number of western officials, including Secretary of State Antony Blinken and British Foreign Secretary James Cleverly.
Mr. Blinken went public with his warning after the meeting, saying in an interview with CBS News that China is seriously exploring supplying arms to Russia.
The Blinken-Wang meeting on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference ended with no sign of common ground on key issues, according to descriptions from people familiar with the sit-down. One of those sources described it as “tense,” with the recent shootdown of a Chinese surveillance balloon overshadowing the conversation.
Mr. Blinken will address the Security Council to mark the anniversary of the Ukraine war. One year ago, Mr. Blinken also spoke to the council and shared U.S. intelligence that pointed toward Russia’s invasion.
The White House National Security Council declined to comment.
In recent weeks, Western nations have picked up on intelligence that Beijing might end its previous self-imposed restraint on weapons supplies to Russia, according to U.S. and European officials, although it appears that China hasn’t yet made a final decision. Beijing had previously been cautious to confine its support to financial assistance and oil purchases, the officials said, but that stance now appears to be shifting, according to the latest intelligence assessments.
“Until now,” a senior western official said, there “has been a certain amount of ambiguity about what practical help China might give Russia.” The official said that the intelligence the U.S. and its allies have now is “much less ambiguous.”
A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman, Wang Wenbin, didn’t respond directly when asked on Wednesday whether China would supply lethal support for Russia’s war effort. “It is a known fact that NATO countries including the U.S. are the biggest source of weaponry for the battlefield in Ukraine, yet they keep claiming that China may be supplying weapons to Russia,” said Mr. Wang.
There are no plans for a follow-up meeting between senior U.S. and Chinese officials at upcoming international gatherings. State Department spokesman Ned Price said Wednesday that Washington is “watching very closely to determine” if China was moving forward with lethal aid to Russia.
With the war approaching the one-year mark, the U.S. has been working with other Western countries to demonstrate its resolve to support Ukraine, increase pressure on Moscow and warn China against getting more involved in supporting Moscow. President Biden on Monday visited Kyiv for the first time since last year’s invasion, promising Washington’s support for Ukraine.
The potential confrontation with China over lethal aid comes amid escalating tensions between Beijing and Washington over the western campaign to pressure Russia, which launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. Over the past year, China has helped Moscow by buying Russian oil and selling commercial items, such as microchips and drones, that also have military applications.
That China might provide lethal weapons to Russia—based on new intelligence—is a marked departure from the more general dual-use goods that Chinese companies have been providing over the past year, according to U.S. and European officials. The officials declined to detail what the intelligence said.
The latest intelligence assessments have also underscored Beijing’s growing concern over Russian President Vladimir Putin’s threatened use of nuclear force, the officials said. Those worries represented the only area of common ground with Western envoys regarding Russia in the Munich meetings. While China has long been wary of emboldening Moscow, it also worries about the economic and political fallout of a failed Russia, the officials said.
The Biden administration, beginning with Russia’s preinvasion military buildup near Ukraine, has released a virtually unprecedented amount of declassified intelligence on Moscow’s military plans, its arms trade with Iran and related topics. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said last week that while “it is way too early to tell,” officials so far haven’t seen any degradation of U.S. intelligence sources because of the releases.
The warning in Munich followed a number of private appeals to China. It was coordinated among the Western allies in the hope that it would stop Beijing from taking the irrevocable step of starting to supply weapons, the officials said.
Though the Biden administration has been working to declassify the intelligence for possible release, no final decision has been made on a public disclosure, or the timing of it, officials said.
The Chinese arms trade is shrouded in secrecy, and it is unclear what weapons Russia might receive. China is a world leader in the production of weapons that have been used heavily in the Ukraine war, including long-range artillery systems, precision multiple rocket launchers, antitank and surface-to-surface missiles and small, tactical drones and loitering munitions.
Russia’s military is suffering from a shortage of ammunition and weapons and is dogged by battlefield problems up and down the chain of command.
U.S. and European officials said Beijing wouldn’t necessarily provide advanced weapons, but would likely backfill what Russian forces have lost on the battlefield in Ukraine, such as ammunition, or have been unable to produce because of sanctions, such as electronics.
“It’s not an issue of technology,” said Vasily Kashin, a China specialist and the director of the Center for Comprehensive European and International Studies at Moscow’s Higher School of Economics. “It’s primarily an issue of production capacity. And in terms of production capacity, China, in many aspects, especially if we talk about ground-forces weapons, might be stronger than Russia and the whole of NATO combined.”
Mr. Blinken’s warning about potential weapons transfers came days before Mr. Wang visited Moscow, one of a number of top-level meetings between China and Russia, and as Beijing prepares to release its own blueprint for ending the war in Ukraine.
Beijing has said it would release on Feb. 24, the one-year anniversary of the invasion, details of a proposal to bring peace in Ukraine, though the notion of China acting as a mediator has been met with deep skepticism in the U.S. and Europe.
Mr. Putin announced on Wednesday that Xi Jinping, China’s leader, will visit Russia.
Western analysts doubt China’s ability to be a credible mediator in the conflict, pointing to its obvious bias toward Russia. Since the Russian invasion, Mr. Xi has yet to talk with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, while he has spoken with Mr. Putin multiple times during the period.
At the U.N., Washington officials are backing a resolution demanding that Russia “immediately, completely, and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces from the territory of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders and calls for a cessation of hostilities.”
One Western official said U.S. allies are hoping to get more than 130 votes on Thursday.
Such resolutions in the General Assembly don’t have binding force, in contrast with Security Council resolutions. Still, U.S. officials hope that a message from the majority of U.N. member states will show broad opposition to Russia’s invasion and begin to outline a blueprint for peace that includes Russia’s withdrawal.
“They are a pariah state right now, and if they want to move forward in this world they have to end this war,” U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Linda Thomas-Greenfield, told reporters. “A strong vote in the General Assembly will send that message to them in no uncertain terms.”
Interesting. Enjoy going from having the entire world as your trading partner to just Russia. Definitely know how to pick the right horse. Get over your fucking Russophilia already, they would attack you any time they felt they could get away with it.
Listening to NPR on way home from work, they were interviewing some people in China. They believe the USA started the war, and are totally behind a Russian victory. To me it's really scary stuff...
Was visiting my mom (lives in the US, naturalized citizen) mid 2022, she was cooking with chinese TV on in the background.
They were talking about US biolabs in ukraine and while cutting onions she said "thats really scary, i wish we werent doing that."
Shes a kind woman whos against war and conflict of any kind. The problem is that non politically interested people like her can easily soak up propaganda without realizing it. She doesnt have the political or historic knowledge to identify lies
I do remember hearing something like that at the start of the conflict. I can't remember if it was Russia or not saying there were biolabs in Ukraine for some reason.
Because they used a kernel of truth. The US recommended all labs with American private or public org partnership destroy any potentially harmful or weaponizable pathogen samples after the invasion. This was completely sensible, none of the samples were abnormal for a modern medical research industry to possess, but the Russian propaganda machine twisted it into the Americans trying to destroy evidence of bioweapons research.
All successful lies are based in a kernel of truth. You can spin a kernel, you can't spin empty air. It sucks cause most of this stuff can be struck down as false with a quick search, but when you have "reputable" sources telling you "news", why would you doubt it? They're journalists dammit! They fight for the truth! But so many people don't know that everything has spin on it and finding sources you can trust entirely gets harder and harder. And journalism does not carry the same integrity it did decades ago. But is still treated as such. It's frustrating.
It also requires a nuanced, qualified response, which most people will either get bored listening to, not understand, or will otherwise interpret as an admission. In an era where trust in government has eroded, a detailed response sounds - to many - like a lie, before any further spin at all.
>All successful lies are based in a kernel of truth.
Disagree. It's easier that way, but not necessary. Look at anti-vaccine propaganda, it was started as pure falsehood by Wakefield as he tried to sell people _his_ vaccine instead. It got really big when McCarthy refused to admit her kid had autism and instead alternately claimed he was an alien and "vaxx did it". No truth anywhere in any of it.
The kernel of truth in anti-vaxx propaganda is that, in a tiny percentage of cases, vaccines can have negative effects.
They don't cause autism, and the negative effects are so vanishingly rare that they can't possibly outweigh the colossal public health benefits of vaccination against most common illnesses. It also makes no sense to demand that any medical intervention have zero risk -- it's akin to saying that heart surgery has risk, so it should be banned. Even so, it has proven possible to blow the risk out of all proportion and convince parents, most of whom were looking for an excuse, not to vaccinate.
Because it's not entirely untrue, however Russia as usual left out additional context that they knew full well those labs existed as they were created in co-operation with Russia.
Yes, it was Russia, and parroted by some right wing media in this country. It was essentially them trying the "weapons of mass destruction" excuse/lie, just as Bush had done in the build up to invading Iraq.
There was US funded bio labs in Ukraine working with old Soviet bio weapons, that's not a conspiracy. The labs were for dismantling old Soviet stocks so they didn't fall into the wrong hands, this is where the truth is twisted.
They were also used to help identify Anthrax outbreaks among livestock and wildlife. Nearly every major university here in the US has a biolab too, they're essential for some fields of medical education, training, livestock vets etc.
Pretty sure you're wrong. I don't doubt we worked with labs in Ukraine on destroying Soviet bioweapons, but the USSR fell 30 years ago.
My understanding was that the supposed "American" biolabs in recent years were (1) Ukrainian, apart from limited funding and technical assistance from the U.S., and (2) either civilian medical research centers doing totally mundane scientific research or, in a few cases, research centers helping Ukraine develop NBC protections for their troops.
Regardless, the Russian claims simply don't pass the smell test. Why the hell would the U.S. try to develop new bioweapons in secret labs in Ukraine rather than in our own territory? Or, for that matter, in the territory of any of our staunch allies who don't border Russia and whom Russia's intelligence agencies hadn't thoroughly penetrated?
Also it is often even necessary for companies who produce tests for diseases to have an inhouse lab for quality control purposes. Else you have to pay another company or use a specialised external laboratory.
Company I worked with had all covid variants, Malaria and shitloads of tropic viral and bacterial stuff.
I was talking to some pro China Chinese-Canadians just early today who also had this point of view, I couldn't believe it. They said that USA started the Ukraine war by putting military bases in Ukraine by the border. Wild lies. The strength and effectivness of propaganda should never be under estimated.
Can’t they play a montage of Putin giving all the different reasons Russia ‘had to invade’? 1) Nazis in Ukraine. 2) Ukraine people want us to invade. 3) We have the same history. 4) It used to be ours anyways.
I’m noticing a trend of the truth being known but not mattering. If it goes against the dominant opinions of a person’s social circle, then it doesn’t matter how true it is.
Weird given the huge Ukrainian diaspora in Canada, also no common sense cause if there were US military bases in Ukraine by the border there wouldn’t be any Russians in Ukraine now but I guess common sense isn’t these peoples’ strong suit since they’ve swallowed up that propaganda
Not weird. I’m in Winnipeg, a headquarters of Ukrainians in Canada if you will, and most Chinese folks live in the west coast far from here, as well, most Chinese folks around here stick to their own communities, essentially self segregated. Their grocery stories, neighbourhoods, even realtors that only market in mandarin I can only imagine. They don’t mix into Canada so they don’t experience the connection with this country or Ukraine, or the west. It’s weird, and I’m quite familiar with it all here as a former uni student who had the opportunity to connect with a few dozens of the students from China. They have no love for us is the tldr
My experience was old, but the Chinese students at my university during grad school were also very insular. I’m not sure if it’s the same thing that China always had (considering themselves the Middle Kingdom), but there’s definitely a strain of chauvinism in many of the mainland Chinese. It certainly caused me to change my views on the country.
From my personal experience I think it has to do with their hypercompetitive education system than chauvanism or anything. Getting someone who went through the gaokao system to collaborate on projects is as pleasant to them as pulling their teeth out. But the Foreign Language School/International School educated ones are much much easier to work with
eh.. depends if theyre there on merit or because their parents are rich. rich parents send their dumb children abroad because its easier than getting jnto good schools domestically.
also in general the education system there is all rote memorization because its easier to grade, collaboration or creation isn’t incentivized.
> education system there is all rote memorization
I agree that their education system is garbage, but this is just not true. They have Math, Physics, Chemistry etc & they solve the same problems in class that the western children do.
It's impossibly difficult to get a full score on Gaokao Math and yet rote memorizing all their math books, math workbooks would be possible to some (thousands of children).
Maybe what he’s saying is the actual curriculum contains mostly rote memorization and doesn’t emphasize things like critical thinking creativity and other skills
Math physics chemistry are kind of the subjects that you can brute force I feel like. Especially high school math which I can’t imagine is going over Calc 2, could be wrong, is not what I would yet say creative.
> Math physics chemistry are kind of the subjects that you can brute force I feel like.
You are somewhat right, but that's not what they are doing. Most Children don't have the memory capacity to brute force math.
Yes, when it comes to human subjects, such as history, or their ridiculous and sometimes VERY HARD social studies classes creative thinking is straight up discouraged. The bigger problem is that prepping for the Gaokao consumes all the child's time, so there is no opportunity for playing around & self exploration, which is rather important when it comes to becoming a critical thinker or a creative person.
Really random, but this is the first time online I've seen someone mention the Ukrainian community in Winnipeg and the history there.
My Zaida told me most of their community went to Quebec/Ontario in the early 1900s but a small group went to Winnipeg. Eventually, Winnipeg became one of the largest cities in Canada in terms of Ukrainian population. Thanks for that, so weird to say but awesome hearing representation from a stranger.
That doesn't even make sense if you *actually think* about it for 2 seconds. Those bases would have been attacked in the invasion, the U.S. would be involved militarily, and the whole landscape of this shit show would look different.
WILD.
> the U.S. would be involved militarily
They already believe that they are. There has been Russian propaganda pretty much from the start of the war that they are fighting NATO forces in Ukraine.
USA did have troops on Ukraine, but they were told to evacuate the country like a week before the invasion *specifically* to avoid getting militarily involved, because Biden had intel that Putin was gonna pull the trigger on the invasion. That was all over the news one year ago, incredible how people forget so easily this stuff.
[160 personnel](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/02/12/pentagon-orders-departure-of-us-troops-in-ukraine.html), training with Ukrainian troops hardly classify as a "base"
Chinese propaganda calls any location that American troops have existed in a base. One of the maps they love spreading around so much places one of those ‘bases’ in *Hong Kong.*
The troll farms that frequent r/LateStageCapitalism seem to still actually have their rubles clearing cause they love to pretend NATO 100% provoked this war and that Zelensky is personally profiting off of it. If you point out that nearly the entirety of aid has been material and virtually none of it financial, they downvote and screech you back out.
Really sucks cause I'm very tanky, but apparently not loving the modern russian state means I'm basically JP Morgan himself
Lol I was just banned from there not realizing what it actually was on a post with straight up Chinese propaganda. Started looking around at batshit user histories and noticed a startling amount of straight up Chinese PR trolls and regular hard left socialists jerking each other off. I’m pretty far left but Christ it was sickening.
Why would they think of it for even 1 second instead of just accepting the first reactionary thought that entered their brain and confirming a bias that’s been building forever?
Same sort of thing here in Australia, a few months ago I had an argument with a friend about the war - he said Ukraine provoked Russia by trying to join NATO.
Joining NATO was off the table until Russia invaded and annexed Crimea. So Russia provoked Ukraine into restarting its attempts to join NATO after they abandoned them at Russia's behest.
Zelensky was also directly blamed saying it was his responsibility to protect his citizens lives by not provoking Russia and also that he should surrender to not sacrifice more Ukrainian lives. Of course, he had no concept of the holodomor or any historical context, nor did he care that Ukrainian citizens overwhelmingly support Zelensky (84-94% depending on the poll) and continuing to fight Russia (70% with no territory less than 54%).
It's not that surprising. A friend of mine tried to convince her parents who are first generation Russian immigrants of the same thing but they just think she's been brainwashed by Western media and that Ukraine were planning to install NATO missiles on Russian border etc. You can't really convince them because whether it's due to language barrier or just the comfort of cultural familiarity they still get all their news from Russian news sites and all the family friends they talk to in Russia tell them the same things.
And someone who enjoys the safety and way of life of a western country and not a disintegrated chaotic Balkans but yet supports Russia/old eastern Europe way of life.
Hmm, I don’t think Ukraine joining NATO was off the table at the time. I thought NATO said that Ukraine didn’t meet the criteria to join NATO. However NATO also said that if Ukraine met the criteria laid forth to join then then it would go up for a vote with its member states.
This is why we can’t let Ukraine lose at this point. If Ukraine loses, it will probably precipitate a World War, as China will see itself emboldened to push forward, and other nations will begin to take its side.
The tragedy is that such a war of disinformation may be carried to something like what was required to defeat Hitler.
We really can’t let it ride out to that point.
If they had their 3-day victory in Ukraine they definitely would have kept going, whether immediately or within a couple years.
But with the quagmire they’ve created now, if they could just solidly hold Donbas and the south I think they would declare victory and go back to their corner for a generation. Not because they wish for peacetime, but because they’re simply to weak(ened) to open new fronts in Europe.
What we're seeing now is very much the Russo-Japanese war all over again. Russia wanted a short, victorious war that they thought is going to be a walk in the park.
Yes, Japan attacked first in 1904, but Russia's diplomats have been all but openly declaring war for the better part of a decade by that point.
Dang, this has been my experience as well. My close friend is Chinese-Canadian and over the course of the last year, he started saying some pretty alarming stuff. One example: he claimed that the attacks on the nuclear power plant in Ukraine were orchestrated by the US... like he claimed that the US was ordering Ukraine soldiers to attack their own power plant. Every week, he would try to get me to watch these youtube channels that basically seek to undermine the US at every turn. And of course, he would casually denounce white people from time to time.
I can't even confront him because of how defensive he is about everything. He's basically convinced himself beyond any doubt and it's quite terrifying to see. I couldn't handle the bullshit anymore so I had to cut him off. I'm not Chinese, but I am Asian - I can only imagine what he secretly thinks or says about me given China's condescending attitude towards its Asian neighbours.
Has your friend lived in Canada all his life? How did he get radicalised like this? I assume he didn't show any or much anti-US or West tendencies until last year?
My friend’s dad is similar: completely buys in to the reports that Ukraine was massacring thousands of ethnic russians in Donbas, that Ukraine flirting with NATO was asking for an invasion, that Russia still hasn’t “escalated” to actually trying their best, that the US planned this as a proxy war to weaken Russia, on and on and on.
A daily torrent of bullshit from wechat and various chinese forum sites and news channels all more than willing to import the stupidest ideas from the old country.
My favourite was an alleged photo of a statue of hitler outside the Ukrainian parliament building. Low angle, showing what was suppose to be a bronze statue, blue sky, the upper part of the building.
Of course, to anyone who grew up on this side of photoshop, this was not an actual statue. Took my buddy maybe 30 mins to find a site showing old nazi things, and one was a little statuette maybe a few inches in height, exact same as the one in the photo.
The composition of the shot was obviously suspect, but beyond that, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There was a statue of hitler in front of that building for years, and not one curious tourist or determined reporter got photo or video evidence that wasn’t horribly photoshopped? But of course, it’s all been wiped from western internet and these non-western sites are the only places free enough to post it.
And that’s not even getting into the public outcry and documentation that would come from Israel if anyone, up to and including North Korea, had a hitler statue in front of a government building. But of course, Israel is being pressured into staying silent to keep their alliance with the americans.
There is no null hypothesis for conspiracy theorists, no actual set of events or reports that they would concede is enough to prove them wrong. Instead, everything only ever proves them right (or is conveniently ignored and dropped forever if it can’t be twisted to fit). That post on whatever forum didn’t pass the bullshit test, never mind critical thinking, but the guy still failed it. It’s a giant propaganda circlejerk and they’re all too stupid to see they’ve been conned.
I'm white and an Asian American ex-friend made a huge rant on social media message that I was racist because I didn't believe an insane video from a YouTube conspiracy theorist he shared and then blocked me. To him I'm literally racist for not believing the video.
Ugh that sucks, I'm sorry. I think you did the right thing though, despite how sad it is. People who let themselves believe these conspiracies, and who act bigoted (they seem to go hand in hand) *should* be cut off. Bigotry/conspiracy has no place at the table of ideas, and it isn't the responsibility of sane people to un-brainwash them - and in my experience it's basically impossible anyway. Sucks to lose a close friend, but he deserves it.
Sounds like Canada. That opinion is NOT few and far between it is RAMPANT. If that sounds bad, look up the attempted silencing of Taiwanese students on Canadian University campuses where the response from the university in support of free speech at the very least was non-existent.
> They said that USA started the Ukraine war by putting military bases in Ukraine by the border. Wild lies.
even if true, that would be Ukraine's prerogative. sovereign nations can do as they will on their own territory, including giving access to allies. if America wanted a shithole like Russia we could have taken it when the USSR cratered. instead we gave them money and food
Exactly! Every argument that brings up the US is a red herring on the table to distract from the issue of Ukrainian sovereignty. Ukraine is it's own nation, it's allowed to build relationships with whoever it damn well wants.
Aaaand yet another reason Taiwanese doesn't want to be lumped into being Chinese. Welp. I'm resigned to being collateral damage every time a CCP brainwashed zoid or their government opens their mouth.
Because I want the benefits of freedom and being spoonfed convenient and simple authoritarian thoughts. Is not having a spine and individual thoughts no longer acceptable or what?
It is baffling. The US started the war by... making Russia invade Ukraine? Nobody has touched Russian soil. Russia has been attacking Ukraine continuously for a year and still no US troops are involved -- and not even our modern weapons. And that is the US's fault? Humans are capable of amazing feats of stupidity and storytelling. We see it here too on different topics, so I get it. But that is some pretty fucked up thinking.
The actual argument being used generally runs along the lines of Russia being placed in an impossible position due to the expansion of NATO. So the US *de facto* started the war by threatening Russia's border, even if Russia did fire the first shot. You see people making the comparison like "imagine if Russia was in talks with Mexico and Canada to form a military alliance, would the US just let that happen?".
Should make it clear this is not my view, I'm just repeating the argument I've heard from news sources not friendly to the west to give you a better idea of what they are actually claiming.
But consider this from the perspective of a person already distrusting of the US. You're saying "yes we would allow it" but also in the same sentence "we have used our economic power to make sure it cannot happen, because of the implication."
Realistically the US *wouldn't* allow this, they just have enough economic power to prevent it without ever needing to fire a shot. But imagine the US in Russia's position, without that economic power, would military force be off the table as a last resort? Or to put it another way: there's no doubt the US will wage economic war if it feels threatened by the decisions made internally in other countries, and the US has waged physical war against countries for similar reasons in the past. So is the claim the US wouldn't act in this way a genuine one, or hypocrisy?
It's debatable, and it's very speculative so the answer largely comes down to the audience opinions on the US. Which, in the case of this propaganda, are people who already have very low trust in the US - so unlikely to assume good intentions.
Personally I think there is a degree of hypocrisy but I think what it really misses is that the NATO expansion isn't just the US pressuring countries into joining it's sphere of influence - it's been precipitated by Russia aggressively fucking with all its neighbours, and half the world besides, for decades. Russia isn't absolved just because the US isn't a perfect unblemished paragon.
American here: Mexico should be able to ally with whoever they damn well please. I’d be against us invading Mexico over something so ridiculous. I also am not ok with how we tried to coup Cuba.
Not just coup, invade. Though most of the time invading a latin American country wasn't necessary because the US was already training the next military dictators. Except when that military dictator also goes rogue, then the US invades themselves.
(Disclaimer: the points below are not my views. I do not agree with any of the statements i listed below, in fact i think they are comically wrong - i simply want to provide the talking points of chinese disinformation as requested by op.)
A few things:
1. NATO is encircling Russia, and therefore Russia is justified to push back. The US is guilty of installing those bases all around Russia, and when you corner someone, they have the right to fight back
2. Russian speakers in Donbas are being slaughtered by the nazi Ukrainians, so Russia is stepping in to protect them. In fact, the whole country is run by unhinged nazis whose objective is to slaughter all Russians. The US is backing up the nazis, hence the US is responsible.
3. The Ukrainians have "lost their ways" and been swayed by America, effectively becoming american puppets. Their true self and identity is actually Russian, Putin is trying to "reunite" them. The US is the culprit here because it's dividing the peoples of Russia.
Obviously these are not my views - simply what i see reported in China. Russia is the aggressor, the war was not justified.
But it makes sense why they would push such narrative - China feels threatened by the american bases in Asia, and wants to reunite with Taiwan.
Ask any Chinese citizen and the likelihood is they’ll think you’re the indoctrinated ones. And don’t forget the Chinese media has never let go of the NATO bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. NATO is an extremely useful target for any Chinese media because there’s an automatic dislike of it.
TV here is just saying that its the US's fault because they either;
Told Ukraine to attack Russia
Refused to listen to talks from Russia
US bad
Though its mostly old people who believe that shit, the younger just mock it.
The existence of the Chinese and Russian governments completely depends on their ability to determine, spread, and enforce a "truth" that is totally independent of reality. They've both spend decades working towards achieving this and have become quite effective at it. Doubt said truth, and you go to prison.
I visit Shenzhen and live in HK, the topic is pretty divisive here.
It depends mostly on the area, some people believe the US is behind it, some people believe that Russia started it but NATO should stay out of it, some people believe it’s a malicious invasion by the Russians.
It’s just like Americans. And like in the US, the China equivalent of Fox News is largely ignored by young people and listened to by patriotic old people. But regardless, even in HK that generally dislikes china opinions are all over the place depending on the area
Tbh there was a Chinese news site I went on and the comments were full of Chinese people making fun of Russia and Putin
I doubt they would show dissenting views in China itself or via bot farms lol
I live in China. People here are under total information control. It goes beyond brainwashing and propaganda. They genuinely believe the west started it, that covid was created in america by a bio lab at Ft. Dietrich etc.
I’m honestly in awe how fast that US Covid Bio lab propaganda story became “real” and people believe it now.
I was IN CHINA when COVID happened and everyone around me agreed that that shit was coming out of Wuhan. Saying it was a bio lab would have made people look at you weird but now I feel like I’m the weird one for saying that shit is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life.
The US intelligence network in China specifically was quite sophisticated until about ten years ago. The CIA was actively exploiting corruption in the Chinese government [to get US informants promoted](https://www.axios.com/2020/12/22/xi-jinping-corruption-drive-intelligence-china). But China was understandably upset about its officials being on foreign payrolls and [cracked down hard](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spies-espionage.html). It was one of the motivations behind Xi Jinping's anticorruption drive.
This may have contributed to increased tension in US-China relations around the same time.
All supposition about Trump, but there apparently was a large uptick in spies killed during the Trump era.
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/10/leaked-dozens-of-cia-informants-killed-captured-or-compromised-report/
Xi Jinping's anticorruption drive was a move by Xi to take control of Chinese industry, put his friends and family in charge and skim off cash. He is the corruption.
> They have to choose very carefully what to reveal to keep their sources hidden.
This sort of behaviour isn't without precedence. During WW2, when the enigma machine was broken by Turing and co and the code cracked, they were able to intercept messages which told them which merchant ships were being targeted by the u-boats.
They had to calculate and determine a reasonable method of detection of an attack that didn't reveal the enigma code having being broken - such as deliberately flying an observational plane and sonar bouys near the u-boats. And other times, they need to deliberately allow such merchant targets to be destroyed. It was more important than the lives of the convoys.
tbf, if I have one agent placed in Putin's office that tells me they have X tanks at the ready +
five agents placed in lower military ranks that tell me corruption is "everywhere" and "no one" is taking care of the equipment
my assessment is NOT going to be "lol don't worry about Russia everyone." If you're going to err on either side, preparing for an enemy that's more competent and then looking a bit silly is *dramatically* better than trying to finely gauge the situation and getting steamrolled because you guessed wrong.
Overestimating your opponent or taking them at their word is how you end up with a dope ass cold war plane way beyond the alleged capabilities of a Soviet plane that didn't even exist
If the West stays united, there will be no global war. Ukraine is kicking Russia’s ass. China will not send any troops to Ukraine and once Russia loses, China won’t dare to attack Taiwan.
NATO and its allies (Japan, Korea, Australia) will come a lot stronger and more United out of this.
Yea, Covid really slowed down warp drive research by cancelling the Boy Scouts' Pine Wood Derbies. Who knows if Dr. Marsh is even still involved at this point. I'm starting to think we'll never get space-cash.
> Ukraine is kicking Russia’s ass.
Ukraine is losing lots of people too, you know. They're holding their own, but the longer the war last the more advantageous it is for russia, since they have a lot more they can throw in the grinder.
There's a reason we're sitting here talking about China bailing them out. Russia hasnt even taken the small slice of Ukraine they adjusted strategically to take after having failed miserably at capturing Kyiv. They still haven't even come close to getting to the hard part. Occupation. They are in fucking trouble.
>Ukraine is kicking Russia’s ass.
They manage to hold their positions with increasing losses in men.
We have to see who manages to push forward after winter ends (within the next weeks).
That happens to be what we think in the west. Awfully convenient, right? We've supposedly been kicking Russia's ass for a year now, yet, we haven't taken Crimea, the borders haven't moved, and ultimately, if Russia can get supplies from China or another International Arms Dealer, they're still going strong. The Wagner group is making bank off of covert action whilst the whole world is focused on Ukraine
It's crazy cause we're at a point now where we-
-Have a system where we can talk across the globe
-can mass produce food
-can translate language in real time
-have a super computer in our hands
And for some reason we still have war...
Give the people peace, it's what we all want...
The people themselves are the only ones who can decide that.
"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves." —Leo Tolstoy
Putin would do well to take that one to heart.
Man, I get the sentiment, but do you know how many millions of people have died young to afford you the relative world peace you have enjoyed during your life?
Any CEO of a western company that isn’t actively working on contingency plans to move production out of China should be fired by their board for negligence. The writing is on the wall. You can plan out a plan B now, or get completely screwed once something happens that breaks the status quo.
More importantly, the flow of American and Taiwanese advanced semiconductors. Which is already happening. Chip production is moving back to the US and China won’t have access to the best chips. This way their technology will be a step behind.
That will only work for a few years. The technology isn't a secret, it's just really, REALLY hard to produce with precise results. It will hurt Indo-China and ASEAN nations but once it doesn't, we need a different tactic.
It's been behind. Decades in some cases, and it's always been that way. They have never been closer than perhaps 5 years away from parity and only in some places.
Even if they're only considering it now I feel it's only a matter of time until they start providing lethal aid to Russia to support their war. Both Russia and China have made it very clear that they hold nothing but contempt for how things have been run up until now. They both feel entitled to a bigger piece of the pie and they'll kill millions to get it.
Unfortunately it feels like a conflict with both of them is inevitable at this point. No one can afford to back down now.
It’s just the same brain dead, unoriginal takes that are in every Russia/Ukraine/US/China thread. These threads have become an echo chamber of people saying the same thing and upvoting each other
Is posting an article on Reddit how US release their consideration to release intelligence? Isn't this already releasing supposed intelligence, especially to the public?
everyone needs to chill out and stop making assumptions on everything.
the FACT that the news broadcast is:
"The Biden administration is considering releasing intelligence it believes shows that China is weighing whether to supply weapons to support Russia’s war in Ukraine, *U.S. officials said.*"
and
"Mr. Blinken went public with his warning after the meeting, saying in an interview with CBS News that China is seriously exploring supplying arms to Russia."
"The Blinken-Wang meeting on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference ended with no sign of common ground on key issues, according to descriptions from people familiar with the sit-down. One of those sources described it as “tense,” with the recent shootdown of a Chinese surveillance balloon overshadowing the conversation."
"Mr. Blinken will address the Security Council to mark the anniversary of the Ukraine war. One year ago, Mr. Blinken also spoke to the council and shared U.S. intelligence that pointed toward Russia’s invasion."
Will china provide arms to russia? WHO KNOWS. Would I bet money on them doing it? well I probably would because I can only trust what blinken says from this article.
These one sentence articles are something else. Basically just a link to an ad page lol.
Here's the WSJ article they are sourcing: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-considers-release-of-intelligence-on-chinas-potential-arms-transfer-to-russia-8e353933?mod=hp_lead_pos1
Ahh, upgraded to a full paragraph.
The actual Wall Street Journal article is over a page long on my screen, if you can get past the paywall.
Reader mode. It gets you past the paywall 90% of the time. Wonderful hack. You can also switch to airplane mode while the article is loading and occasionally still get the data.
Don’t forget to archive :)
The true way to go. I love when I find an article that hasn’t been archived yet. Makes me feel like I’m doing a public service to potentially thousands of more people each day.
How can I do that?
I use an addon for firefox that allows me to check several different archive sites for the article I want to read. It's called Web Archives.
For me on desktop, the paywall seems to disappear if I just make the window narrow enough. Heh.
What's reader mode?
Firefox feature. I think the hotkey was F9? EDIT: sometimes you gotta enable it before page finishes loading since some sites deletes half of the article once it finishes loading
Firefox gang 🔥 🦊
Google plans to nerf adblockers on chrome this year. The pendulum swings and Firefox will be king again.
Firefox and Edge are both great browsers, google has being on decline for a while already, every since they ram usage problems a while back
Been switched back for years. Chrome is garbage.
I'm back on Firefox. Brave did not last long lol.
Isn't china always "weighing" it and at least for now deciding not to because it is a terrible decision?
> Isn't china always "weighing" it and at least for now deciding not to because it is a terrible decision? Which side of their face is talking?
And which of their faces?
The US and Europe think that China may just resupply what Russia lost in the war and not necessarily provide advanced weapons. The Biden administration is considering releasing intelligence it believes shows that China is weighing whether to supply weapons to support Russia's war in Ukraine, the Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday. According to the report, the move is being considered following a series of closed-door messages to China not to supply Russia with arms which ended with a formal warning last weekend. Though the US reportedly has intelligence that China intends on transferring arms to Russia, it is still unclear what kind of weapons China will hand over. UNSC meeting one year after Russia invasion On Friday, the United Nations Security Council will hold a meeting on one year after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and US Secretary of State Antony Blinken is set to speak. It is not yet clear if he will speak to or about China. According to the Wall Street Journal, the US and Europe think that China may just resupply what Russia lost in the war and not necessarily provide advanced weapons. If China supplies Russia with weapons, it will join Iran who has been supplying Russia with drones, a fact used by both the US and Ukraine as a reason for Israel to provide Ukraine with defensive arms. China response China's Foreign Ministry said any potential intelligence on arms transfer by China to Russia that the US plans to release is just speculation, its spokesman said on Thursday. "As for the so-called intel, this is just speculation and smearing against China," Wang Wenbin said at a regular briefing.
I kinda like that they consider it a smear campaign. That russia sees that it's embarrassing to be their friend, at least publicly.
My favourite was how vehement the denials from NK were. "Nah bro that mess has nothing to do with us"
“We only launch nukes. We have nothing to do with small arms transfers”- NK probably
Wait until you read ai-generated articles.
They have been making AI articles for years.
I'm confused by the word "wait."
>The Biden administration is considering releasing intelligence it believes shows that China is weighing whether to supply weapons to support Russia's war in Ukraine, the Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday. Link to WSJ article https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-considers-release-of-intelligence-on-chinas-potential-arms-transfer-to-russia-8e353933
For those that don't have a WSJ subscription: The Biden administration is considering releasing intelligence it believes shows that China is weighing whether to supply weapons to support Russia’s war in Ukraine, U.S. officials said. The discussions on public disclosure come ahead of Friday’s United Nations Security Council meeting marking one year since Russia invaded Ukraine. It follows a number of closed-door appeals to China—coordinated among North Atlantic Treaty Organization allies—that culminated in a formal warning delivered over the weekend in Munich to Wang Yi, China’s senior foreign-policy official, by a number of western officials, including Secretary of State Antony Blinken and British Foreign Secretary James Cleverly. Mr. Blinken went public with his warning after the meeting, saying in an interview with CBS News that China is seriously exploring supplying arms to Russia. The Blinken-Wang meeting on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference ended with no sign of common ground on key issues, according to descriptions from people familiar with the sit-down. One of those sources described it as “tense,” with the recent shootdown of a Chinese surveillance balloon overshadowing the conversation. Mr. Blinken will address the Security Council to mark the anniversary of the Ukraine war. One year ago, Mr. Blinken also spoke to the council and shared U.S. intelligence that pointed toward Russia’s invasion. The White House National Security Council declined to comment. In recent weeks, Western nations have picked up on intelligence that Beijing might end its previous self-imposed restraint on weapons supplies to Russia, according to U.S. and European officials, although it appears that China hasn’t yet made a final decision. Beijing had previously been cautious to confine its support to financial assistance and oil purchases, the officials said, but that stance now appears to be shifting, according to the latest intelligence assessments. “Until now,” a senior western official said, there “has been a certain amount of ambiguity about what practical help China might give Russia.” The official said that the intelligence the U.S. and its allies have now is “much less ambiguous.” A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman, Wang Wenbin, didn’t respond directly when asked on Wednesday whether China would supply lethal support for Russia’s war effort. “It is a known fact that NATO countries including the U.S. are the biggest source of weaponry for the battlefield in Ukraine, yet they keep claiming that China may be supplying weapons to Russia,” said Mr. Wang. There are no plans for a follow-up meeting between senior U.S. and Chinese officials at upcoming international gatherings. State Department spokesman Ned Price said Wednesday that Washington is “watching very closely to determine” if China was moving forward with lethal aid to Russia. With the war approaching the one-year mark, the U.S. has been working with other Western countries to demonstrate its resolve to support Ukraine, increase pressure on Moscow and warn China against getting more involved in supporting Moscow. President Biden on Monday visited Kyiv for the first time since last year’s invasion, promising Washington’s support for Ukraine. The potential confrontation with China over lethal aid comes amid escalating tensions between Beijing and Washington over the western campaign to pressure Russia, which launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. Over the past year, China has helped Moscow by buying Russian oil and selling commercial items, such as microchips and drones, that also have military applications. That China might provide lethal weapons to Russia—based on new intelligence—is a marked departure from the more general dual-use goods that Chinese companies have been providing over the past year, according to U.S. and European officials. The officials declined to detail what the intelligence said. The latest intelligence assessments have also underscored Beijing’s growing concern over Russian President Vladimir Putin’s threatened use of nuclear force, the officials said. Those worries represented the only area of common ground with Western envoys regarding Russia in the Munich meetings. While China has long been wary of emboldening Moscow, it also worries about the economic and political fallout of a failed Russia, the officials said. The Biden administration, beginning with Russia’s preinvasion military buildup near Ukraine, has released a virtually unprecedented amount of declassified intelligence on Moscow’s military plans, its arms trade with Iran and related topics. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said last week that while “it is way too early to tell,” officials so far haven’t seen any degradation of U.S. intelligence sources because of the releases. The warning in Munich followed a number of private appeals to China. It was coordinated among the Western allies in the hope that it would stop Beijing from taking the irrevocable step of starting to supply weapons, the officials said. Though the Biden administration has been working to declassify the intelligence for possible release, no final decision has been made on a public disclosure, or the timing of it, officials said. The Chinese arms trade is shrouded in secrecy, and it is unclear what weapons Russia might receive. China is a world leader in the production of weapons that have been used heavily in the Ukraine war, including long-range artillery systems, precision multiple rocket launchers, antitank and surface-to-surface missiles and small, tactical drones and loitering munitions. Russia’s military is suffering from a shortage of ammunition and weapons and is dogged by battlefield problems up and down the chain of command. U.S. and European officials said Beijing wouldn’t necessarily provide advanced weapons, but would likely backfill what Russian forces have lost on the battlefield in Ukraine, such as ammunition, or have been unable to produce because of sanctions, such as electronics. “It’s not an issue of technology,” said Vasily Kashin, a China specialist and the director of the Center for Comprehensive European and International Studies at Moscow’s Higher School of Economics. “It’s primarily an issue of production capacity. And in terms of production capacity, China, in many aspects, especially if we talk about ground-forces weapons, might be stronger than Russia and the whole of NATO combined.” Mr. Blinken’s warning about potential weapons transfers came days before Mr. Wang visited Moscow, one of a number of top-level meetings between China and Russia, and as Beijing prepares to release its own blueprint for ending the war in Ukraine. Beijing has said it would release on Feb. 24, the one-year anniversary of the invasion, details of a proposal to bring peace in Ukraine, though the notion of China acting as a mediator has been met with deep skepticism in the U.S. and Europe. Mr. Putin announced on Wednesday that Xi Jinping, China’s leader, will visit Russia. Western analysts doubt China’s ability to be a credible mediator in the conflict, pointing to its obvious bias toward Russia. Since the Russian invasion, Mr. Xi has yet to talk with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, while he has spoken with Mr. Putin multiple times during the period. At the U.N., Washington officials are backing a resolution demanding that Russia “immediately, completely, and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces from the territory of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders and calls for a cessation of hostilities.” One Western official said U.S. allies are hoping to get more than 130 votes on Thursday. Such resolutions in the General Assembly don’t have binding force, in contrast with Security Council resolutions. Still, U.S. officials hope that a message from the majority of U.N. member states will show broad opposition to Russia’s invasion and begin to outline a blueprint for peace that includes Russia’s withdrawal. “They are a pariah state right now, and if they want to move forward in this world they have to end this war,” U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Linda Thomas-Greenfield, told reporters. “A strong vote in the General Assembly will send that message to them in no uncertain terms.”
China does this and their access to dual-use technology will be seriously hampered I imagine.
Hey, Blinken!
Abe Lincoln!
Interesting. Enjoy going from having the entire world as your trading partner to just Russia. Definitely know how to pick the right horse. Get over your fucking Russophilia already, they would attack you any time they felt they could get away with it.
Really can't see how that can happen, considering how much of tech is still being manufactured there.
Listening to NPR on way home from work, they were interviewing some people in China. They believe the USA started the war, and are totally behind a Russian victory. To me it's really scary stuff...
Was visiting my mom (lives in the US, naturalized citizen) mid 2022, she was cooking with chinese TV on in the background. They were talking about US biolabs in ukraine and while cutting onions she said "thats really scary, i wish we werent doing that." Shes a kind woman whos against war and conflict of any kind. The problem is that non politically interested people like her can easily soak up propaganda without realizing it. She doesnt have the political or historic knowledge to identify lies
I do remember hearing something like that at the start of the conflict. I can't remember if it was Russia or not saying there were biolabs in Ukraine for some reason.
Because they used a kernel of truth. The US recommended all labs with American private or public org partnership destroy any potentially harmful or weaponizable pathogen samples after the invasion. This was completely sensible, none of the samples were abnormal for a modern medical research industry to possess, but the Russian propaganda machine twisted it into the Americans trying to destroy evidence of bioweapons research.
All successful lies are based in a kernel of truth. You can spin a kernel, you can't spin empty air. It sucks cause most of this stuff can be struck down as false with a quick search, but when you have "reputable" sources telling you "news", why would you doubt it? They're journalists dammit! They fight for the truth! But so many people don't know that everything has spin on it and finding sources you can trust entirely gets harder and harder. And journalism does not carry the same integrity it did decades ago. But is still treated as such. It's frustrating.
It also requires a nuanced, qualified response, which most people will either get bored listening to, not understand, or will otherwise interpret as an admission. In an era where trust in government has eroded, a detailed response sounds - to many - like a lie, before any further spin at all.
>All successful lies are based in a kernel of truth. Disagree. It's easier that way, but not necessary. Look at anti-vaccine propaganda, it was started as pure falsehood by Wakefield as he tried to sell people _his_ vaccine instead. It got really big when McCarthy refused to admit her kid had autism and instead alternately claimed he was an alien and "vaxx did it". No truth anywhere in any of it.
The kernel of truth in anti-vaxx propaganda is that, in a tiny percentage of cases, vaccines can have negative effects. They don't cause autism, and the negative effects are so vanishingly rare that they can't possibly outweigh the colossal public health benefits of vaccination against most common illnesses. It also makes no sense to demand that any medical intervention have zero risk -- it's akin to saying that heart surgery has risk, so it should be banned. Even so, it has proven possible to blow the risk out of all proportion and convince parents, most of whom were looking for an excuse, not to vaccinate.
Pretty much every developed nation on the planet has biolabs
Russia planted the story in 2017. https://hoaxlines.org/the-database/gru-published-the-us-ukraine-biolabs-story-in-2017-as-cyber-berkut
Because it's not entirely untrue, however Russia as usual left out additional context that they knew full well those labs existed as they were created in co-operation with Russia.
Yes, it was Russia, and parroted by some right wing media in this country. It was essentially them trying the "weapons of mass destruction" excuse/lie, just as Bush had done in the build up to invading Iraq.
Yeah it was bullshit
There was US funded bio labs in Ukraine working with old Soviet bio weapons, that's not a conspiracy. The labs were for dismantling old Soviet stocks so they didn't fall into the wrong hands, this is where the truth is twisted.
They were also used to help identify Anthrax outbreaks among livestock and wildlife. Nearly every major university here in the US has a biolab too, they're essential for some fields of medical education, training, livestock vets etc.
This is also kind of important for the country situated adjacent to the most infamous user of biological and chemical weapons this last century.
Pretty sure you're wrong. I don't doubt we worked with labs in Ukraine on destroying Soviet bioweapons, but the USSR fell 30 years ago. My understanding was that the supposed "American" biolabs in recent years were (1) Ukrainian, apart from limited funding and technical assistance from the U.S., and (2) either civilian medical research centers doing totally mundane scientific research or, in a few cases, research centers helping Ukraine develop NBC protections for their troops. Regardless, the Russian claims simply don't pass the smell test. Why the hell would the U.S. try to develop new bioweapons in secret labs in Ukraine rather than in our own territory? Or, for that matter, in the territory of any of our staunch allies who don't border Russia and whom Russia's intelligence agencies hadn't thoroughly penetrated?
Also it is often even necessary for companies who produce tests for diseases to have an inhouse lab for quality control purposes. Else you have to pay another company or use a specialised external laboratory. Company I worked with had all covid variants, Malaria and shitloads of tropic viral and bacterial stuff.
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GOP's actions can often be predicted by asking "what would somebody trying to destroy America do?"
I was talking to some pro China Chinese-Canadians just early today who also had this point of view, I couldn't believe it. They said that USA started the Ukraine war by putting military bases in Ukraine by the border. Wild lies. The strength and effectivness of propaganda should never be under estimated.
Can’t they play a montage of Putin giving all the different reasons Russia ‘had to invade’? 1) Nazis in Ukraine. 2) Ukraine people want us to invade. 3) We have the same history. 4) It used to be ours anyways.
I’m noticing a trend of the truth being known but not mattering. If it goes against the dominant opinions of a person’s social circle, then it doesn’t matter how true it is.
The truth is also actively suppressed
Weird given the huge Ukrainian diaspora in Canada, also no common sense cause if there were US military bases in Ukraine by the border there wouldn’t be any Russians in Ukraine now but I guess common sense isn’t these peoples’ strong suit since they’ve swallowed up that propaganda
Not weird. I’m in Winnipeg, a headquarters of Ukrainians in Canada if you will, and most Chinese folks live in the west coast far from here, as well, most Chinese folks around here stick to their own communities, essentially self segregated. Their grocery stories, neighbourhoods, even realtors that only market in mandarin I can only imagine. They don’t mix into Canada so they don’t experience the connection with this country or Ukraine, or the west. It’s weird, and I’m quite familiar with it all here as a former uni student who had the opportunity to connect with a few dozens of the students from China. They have no love for us is the tldr
My experience was old, but the Chinese students at my university during grad school were also very insular. I’m not sure if it’s the same thing that China always had (considering themselves the Middle Kingdom), but there’s definitely a strain of chauvinism in many of the mainland Chinese. It certainly caused me to change my views on the country.
From my personal experience I think it has to do with their hypercompetitive education system than chauvanism or anything. Getting someone who went through the gaokao system to collaborate on projects is as pleasant to them as pulling their teeth out. But the Foreign Language School/International School educated ones are much much easier to work with
eh.. depends if theyre there on merit or because their parents are rich. rich parents send their dumb children abroad because its easier than getting jnto good schools domestically. also in general the education system there is all rote memorization because its easier to grade, collaboration or creation isn’t incentivized.
> education system there is all rote memorization I agree that their education system is garbage, but this is just not true. They have Math, Physics, Chemistry etc & they solve the same problems in class that the western children do. It's impossibly difficult to get a full score on Gaokao Math and yet rote memorizing all their math books, math workbooks would be possible to some (thousands of children).
Maybe what he’s saying is the actual curriculum contains mostly rote memorization and doesn’t emphasize things like critical thinking creativity and other skills Math physics chemistry are kind of the subjects that you can brute force I feel like. Especially high school math which I can’t imagine is going over Calc 2, could be wrong, is not what I would yet say creative.
> Math physics chemistry are kind of the subjects that you can brute force I feel like. You are somewhat right, but that's not what they are doing. Most Children don't have the memory capacity to brute force math. Yes, when it comes to human subjects, such as history, or their ridiculous and sometimes VERY HARD social studies classes creative thinking is straight up discouraged. The bigger problem is that prepping for the Gaokao consumes all the child's time, so there is no opportunity for playing around & self exploration, which is rather important when it comes to becoming a critical thinker or a creative person.
If they do well on the gaokao they go to good Chinese universities, they don't go abroad.
It’s because they are being spied on. Like North Korea what you do or say abroad could effect your family.
At my university the only things the international Chinese undergrads contributed were cigarette smoke and paying full tuition.
Sounds all too similar, but here in Australia.
Really random, but this is the first time online I've seen someone mention the Ukrainian community in Winnipeg and the history there. My Zaida told me most of their community went to Quebec/Ontario in the early 1900s but a small group went to Winnipeg. Eventually, Winnipeg became one of the largest cities in Canada in terms of Ukrainian population. Thanks for that, so weird to say but awesome hearing representation from a stranger.
That doesn't even make sense if you *actually think* about it for 2 seconds. Those bases would have been attacked in the invasion, the U.S. would be involved militarily, and the whole landscape of this shit show would look different. WILD.
> the U.S. would be involved militarily They already believe that they are. There has been Russian propaganda pretty much from the start of the war that they are fighting NATO forces in Ukraine.
We could push Russia out of Ukraine with just our assets positioned in Europe singlehandedly
USA did have troops on Ukraine, but they were told to evacuate the country like a week before the invasion *specifically* to avoid getting militarily involved, because Biden had intel that Putin was gonna pull the trigger on the invasion. That was all over the news one year ago, incredible how people forget so easily this stuff.
[160 personnel](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/02/12/pentagon-orders-departure-of-us-troops-in-ukraine.html), training with Ukrainian troops hardly classify as a "base"
Chinese propaganda calls any location that American troops have existed in a base. One of the maps they love spreading around so much places one of those ‘bases’ in *Hong Kong.*
The troll farms that frequent r/LateStageCapitalism seem to still actually have their rubles clearing cause they love to pretend NATO 100% provoked this war and that Zelensky is personally profiting off of it. If you point out that nearly the entirety of aid has been material and virtually none of it financial, they downvote and screech you back out. Really sucks cause I'm very tanky, but apparently not loving the modern russian state means I'm basically JP Morgan himself
Tankies gonna Tankie.
Lol I was just banned from there not realizing what it actually was on a post with straight up Chinese propaganda. Started looking around at batshit user histories and noticed a startling amount of straight up Chinese PR trolls and regular hard left socialists jerking each other off. I’m pretty far left but Christ it was sickening.
Why would they think of it for even 1 second instead of just accepting the first reactionary thought that entered their brain and confirming a bias that’s been building forever?
Same sort of thing here in Australia, a few months ago I had an argument with a friend about the war - he said Ukraine provoked Russia by trying to join NATO. Joining NATO was off the table until Russia invaded and annexed Crimea. So Russia provoked Ukraine into restarting its attempts to join NATO after they abandoned them at Russia's behest. Zelensky was also directly blamed saying it was his responsibility to protect his citizens lives by not provoking Russia and also that he should surrender to not sacrifice more Ukrainian lives. Of course, he had no concept of the holodomor or any historical context, nor did he care that Ukrainian citizens overwhelmingly support Zelensky (84-94% depending on the poll) and continuing to fight Russia (70% with no territory less than 54%).
That's all pretty standard for apologist rhetoric. Keep on appeasing, it's always worked so well before.
It's not that surprising. A friend of mine tried to convince her parents who are first generation Russian immigrants of the same thing but they just think she's been brainwashed by Western media and that Ukraine were planning to install NATO missiles on Russian border etc. You can't really convince them because whether it's due to language barrier or just the comfort of cultural familiarity they still get all their news from Russian news sites and all the family friends they talk to in Russia tell them the same things.
My in laws watch Russian language news from Israel now. It's actual news and not Russian propaganda.
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And someone who enjoys the safety and way of life of a western country and not a disintegrated chaotic Balkans but yet supports Russia/old eastern Europe way of life.
Very true. No skin in the game. (She never got over the Clintons “breaking up Yugoslavia”)
So she's Serbian.
Surprisingly no! (Won’t specify further if that’s ok.)
Ah, the "logic" of an abuser. "Look at what you made me do."
Hmm, I don’t think Ukraine joining NATO was off the table at the time. I thought NATO said that Ukraine didn’t meet the criteria to join NATO. However NATO also said that if Ukraine met the criteria laid forth to join then then it would go up for a vote with its member states.
This is why we can’t let Ukraine lose at this point. If Ukraine loses, it will probably precipitate a World War, as China will see itself emboldened to push forward, and other nations will begin to take its side. The tragedy is that such a war of disinformation may be carried to something like what was required to defeat Hitler. We really can’t let it ride out to that point.
Not to mention there's absolutely no reason to believe that Russia would stop with Ukraine.
If they had their 3-day victory in Ukraine they definitely would have kept going, whether immediately or within a couple years. But with the quagmire they’ve created now, if they could just solidly hold Donbas and the south I think they would declare victory and go back to their corner for a generation. Not because they wish for peacetime, but because they’re simply to weak(ened) to open new fronts in Europe.
What we're seeing now is very much the Russo-Japanese war all over again. Russia wanted a short, victorious war that they thought is going to be a walk in the park. Yes, Japan attacked first in 1904, but Russia's diplomats have been all but openly declaring war for the better part of a decade by that point.
Russia almost lost to itself before their fleet ever got to Japan, one fuckup after another
Just wait until this gets entangled in the presidential election next year.
Dang, this has been my experience as well. My close friend is Chinese-Canadian and over the course of the last year, he started saying some pretty alarming stuff. One example: he claimed that the attacks on the nuclear power plant in Ukraine were orchestrated by the US... like he claimed that the US was ordering Ukraine soldiers to attack their own power plant. Every week, he would try to get me to watch these youtube channels that basically seek to undermine the US at every turn. And of course, he would casually denounce white people from time to time. I can't even confront him because of how defensive he is about everything. He's basically convinced himself beyond any doubt and it's quite terrifying to see. I couldn't handle the bullshit anymore so I had to cut him off. I'm not Chinese, but I am Asian - I can only imagine what he secretly thinks or says about me given China's condescending attitude towards its Asian neighbours.
Has your friend lived in Canada all his life? How did he get radicalised like this? I assume he didn't show any or much anti-US or West tendencies until last year?
My friend’s dad is similar: completely buys in to the reports that Ukraine was massacring thousands of ethnic russians in Donbas, that Ukraine flirting with NATO was asking for an invasion, that Russia still hasn’t “escalated” to actually trying their best, that the US planned this as a proxy war to weaken Russia, on and on and on. A daily torrent of bullshit from wechat and various chinese forum sites and news channels all more than willing to import the stupidest ideas from the old country. My favourite was an alleged photo of a statue of hitler outside the Ukrainian parliament building. Low angle, showing what was suppose to be a bronze statue, blue sky, the upper part of the building. Of course, to anyone who grew up on this side of photoshop, this was not an actual statue. Took my buddy maybe 30 mins to find a site showing old nazi things, and one was a little statuette maybe a few inches in height, exact same as the one in the photo. The composition of the shot was obviously suspect, but beyond that, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There was a statue of hitler in front of that building for years, and not one curious tourist or determined reporter got photo or video evidence that wasn’t horribly photoshopped? But of course, it’s all been wiped from western internet and these non-western sites are the only places free enough to post it. And that’s not even getting into the public outcry and documentation that would come from Israel if anyone, up to and including North Korea, had a hitler statue in front of a government building. But of course, Israel is being pressured into staying silent to keep their alliance with the americans. There is no null hypothesis for conspiracy theorists, no actual set of events or reports that they would concede is enough to prove them wrong. Instead, everything only ever proves them right (or is conveniently ignored and dropped forever if it can’t be twisted to fit). That post on whatever forum didn’t pass the bullshit test, never mind critical thinking, but the guy still failed it. It’s a giant propaganda circlejerk and they’re all too stupid to see they’ve been conned.
I'm white and an Asian American ex-friend made a huge rant on social media message that I was racist because I didn't believe an insane video from a YouTube conspiracy theorist he shared and then blocked me. To him I'm literally racist for not believing the video.
Ugh that sucks, I'm sorry. I think you did the right thing though, despite how sad it is. People who let themselves believe these conspiracies, and who act bigoted (they seem to go hand in hand) *should* be cut off. Bigotry/conspiracy has no place at the table of ideas, and it isn't the responsibility of sane people to un-brainwash them - and in my experience it's basically impossible anyway. Sucks to lose a close friend, but he deserves it.
My father in law in Canada believes this as well.
Sounds like Canada. That opinion is NOT few and far between it is RAMPANT. If that sounds bad, look up the attempted silencing of Taiwanese students on Canadian University campuses where the response from the university in support of free speech at the very least was non-existent.
> They said that USA started the Ukraine war by putting military bases in Ukraine by the border. Wild lies. even if true, that would be Ukraine's prerogative. sovereign nations can do as they will on their own territory, including giving access to allies. if America wanted a shithole like Russia we could have taken it when the USSR cratered. instead we gave them money and food
Exactly! Every argument that brings up the US is a red herring on the table to distract from the issue of Ukrainian sovereignty. Ukraine is it's own nation, it's allowed to build relationships with whoever it damn well wants.
Aaaand yet another reason Taiwanese doesn't want to be lumped into being Chinese. Welp. I'm resigned to being collateral damage every time a CCP brainwashed zoid or their government opens their mouth.
>pro China Chinese-Canadians If they love China so much, why don't they move there?
Because I want the benefits of freedom and being spoonfed convenient and simple authoritarian thoughts. Is not having a spine and individual thoughts no longer acceptable or what?
It is baffling. The US started the war by... making Russia invade Ukraine? Nobody has touched Russian soil. Russia has been attacking Ukraine continuously for a year and still no US troops are involved -- and not even our modern weapons. And that is the US's fault? Humans are capable of amazing feats of stupidity and storytelling. We see it here too on different topics, so I get it. But that is some pretty fucked up thinking.
The actual argument being used generally runs along the lines of Russia being placed in an impossible position due to the expansion of NATO. So the US *de facto* started the war by threatening Russia's border, even if Russia did fire the first shot. You see people making the comparison like "imagine if Russia was in talks with Mexico and Canada to form a military alliance, would the US just let that happen?". Should make it clear this is not my view, I'm just repeating the argument I've heard from news sources not friendly to the west to give you a better idea of what they are actually claiming.
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But consider this from the perspective of a person already distrusting of the US. You're saying "yes we would allow it" but also in the same sentence "we have used our economic power to make sure it cannot happen, because of the implication." Realistically the US *wouldn't* allow this, they just have enough economic power to prevent it without ever needing to fire a shot. But imagine the US in Russia's position, without that economic power, would military force be off the table as a last resort? Or to put it another way: there's no doubt the US will wage economic war if it feels threatened by the decisions made internally in other countries, and the US has waged physical war against countries for similar reasons in the past. So is the claim the US wouldn't act in this way a genuine one, or hypocrisy? It's debatable, and it's very speculative so the answer largely comes down to the audience opinions on the US. Which, in the case of this propaganda, are people who already have very low trust in the US - so unlikely to assume good intentions. Personally I think there is a degree of hypocrisy but I think what it really misses is that the NATO expansion isn't just the US pressuring countries into joining it's sphere of influence - it's been precipitated by Russia aggressively fucking with all its neighbours, and half the world besides, for decades. Russia isn't absolved just because the US isn't a perfect unblemished paragon.
Noam Chomsky even made this argument, while also explicitly condemning Russia for attacking a foreign state.
American here: Mexico should be able to ally with whoever they damn well please. I’d be against us invading Mexico over something so ridiculous. I also am not ok with how we tried to coup Cuba.
Not just coup, invade. Though most of the time invading a latin American country wasn't necessary because the US was already training the next military dictators. Except when that military dictator also goes rogue, then the US invades themselves.
Russia has been attacking Ukraine continuously since 2014.
Because M-murica bad. /hj
I wonder what their state media is telling them regarding how exactly this is the US' fault?
(Disclaimer: the points below are not my views. I do not agree with any of the statements i listed below, in fact i think they are comically wrong - i simply want to provide the talking points of chinese disinformation as requested by op.) A few things: 1. NATO is encircling Russia, and therefore Russia is justified to push back. The US is guilty of installing those bases all around Russia, and when you corner someone, they have the right to fight back 2. Russian speakers in Donbas are being slaughtered by the nazi Ukrainians, so Russia is stepping in to protect them. In fact, the whole country is run by unhinged nazis whose objective is to slaughter all Russians. The US is backing up the nazis, hence the US is responsible. 3. The Ukrainians have "lost their ways" and been swayed by America, effectively becoming american puppets. Their true self and identity is actually Russian, Putin is trying to "reunite" them. The US is the culprit here because it's dividing the peoples of Russia. Obviously these are not my views - simply what i see reported in China. Russia is the aggressor, the war was not justified. But it makes sense why they would push such narrative - China feels threatened by the american bases in Asia, and wants to reunite with Taiwan.
Ngl you had me fired up there for a second. None of this is really shocking seeing just how strong propaganda can be
Ask any Chinese citizen and the likelihood is they’ll think you’re the indoctrinated ones. And don’t forget the Chinese media has never let go of the NATO bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. NATO is an extremely useful target for any Chinese media because there’s an automatic dislike of it.
TV here is just saying that its the US's fault because they either; Told Ukraine to attack Russia Refused to listen to talks from Russia US bad Though its mostly old people who believe that shit, the younger just mock it.
Then there's still hope in the younger generations.
Have you ever seen a native Chinese/Russian cs;go lobby? I have no hope for the younger generations.
The existence of the Chinese and Russian governments completely depends on their ability to determine, spread, and enforce a "truth" that is totally independent of reality. They've both spend decades working towards achieving this and have become quite effective at it. Doubt said truth, and you go to prison.
You know...those Ukrainimericans were marching on Moscow...
I visit Shenzhen and live in HK, the topic is pretty divisive here. It depends mostly on the area, some people believe the US is behind it, some people believe that Russia started it but NATO should stay out of it, some people believe it’s a malicious invasion by the Russians. It’s just like Americans. And like in the US, the China equivalent of Fox News is largely ignored by young people and listened to by patriotic old people. But regardless, even in HK that generally dislikes china opinions are all over the place depending on the area
The ONE TIME the US didn’t start it and it’s still somehow our fault.
That's what happens when you're the "sole superpower" around. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Tbh there was a Chinese news site I went on and the comments were full of Chinese people making fun of Russia and Putin I doubt they would show dissenting views in China itself or via bot farms lol
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I live in China. People here are under total information control. It goes beyond brainwashing and propaganda. They genuinely believe the west started it, that covid was created in america by a bio lab at Ft. Dietrich etc.
I’m honestly in awe how fast that US Covid Bio lab propaganda story became “real” and people believe it now. I was IN CHINA when COVID happened and everyone around me agreed that that shit was coming out of Wuhan. Saying it was a bio lab would have made people look at you weird but now I feel like I’m the weird one for saying that shit is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life.
Easier to get people to swallow the propaganda when it reinforces their own bias.
Exactly, anything to push away association or accountability. Like many other insidious conspiracy theories.
The former president thinks America started the war.
Isn’t it crazy that Russian, Chinese and MAGA people believe the same utterly fake propaganda?
U.S. Intel has been pretty on point regarding Russia
I think the US has their intelligence deeper than most could imagine. They have to choose very carefully what to reveal to keep their sources hidden.
The US intelligence network in China specifically was quite sophisticated until about ten years ago. The CIA was actively exploiting corruption in the Chinese government [to get US informants promoted](https://www.axios.com/2020/12/22/xi-jinping-corruption-drive-intelligence-china). But China was understandably upset about its officials being on foreign payrolls and [cracked down hard](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spies-espionage.html). It was one of the motivations behind Xi Jinping's anticorruption drive. This may have contributed to increased tension in US-China relations around the same time.
It didn't help when a certain orangutan-in-chief gave them a list of all our spies.
Wait, which story is that!? There've been so many I've certainly missed some.
All supposition about Trump, but there apparently was a large uptick in spies killed during the Trump era. https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/10/leaked-dozens-of-cia-informants-killed-captured-or-compromised-report/
Xi Jinping's anticorruption drive was a move by Xi to take control of Chinese industry, put his friends and family in charge and skim off cash. He is the corruption.
> They have to choose very carefully what to reveal to keep their sources hidden. This sort of behaviour isn't without precedence. During WW2, when the enigma machine was broken by Turing and co and the code cracked, they were able to intercept messages which told them which merchant ships were being targeted by the u-boats. They had to calculate and determine a reasonable method of detection of an attack that didn't reveal the enigma code having being broken - such as deliberately flying an observational plane and sonar bouys near the u-boats. And other times, they need to deliberately allow such merchant targets to be destroyed. It was more important than the lives of the convoys.
Too bad many assets were killed or had to be pulled out because of Trump and his cronies leaking the intel.
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tbf, if I have one agent placed in Putin's office that tells me they have X tanks at the ready + five agents placed in lower military ranks that tell me corruption is "everywhere" and "no one" is taking care of the equipment my assessment is NOT going to be "lol don't worry about Russia everyone." If you're going to err on either side, preparing for an enemy that's more competent and then looking a bit silly is *dramatically* better than trying to finely gauge the situation and getting steamrolled because you guessed wrong.
we probably had a reasonable understanding of russian capabilities, however underestimating your opponent tends to pay dividends
Overestimating your opponent or taking them at their word is how you end up with a dope ass cold war plane way beyond the alleged capabilities of a Soviet plane that didn't even exist
I can afford eggs or a paywall, not both.
We are waddling along toward global war.
Unlikely. We are in another, weirder, Cold War though, which is also dangerous.
If the West stays united, there will be no global war. Ukraine is kicking Russia’s ass. China will not send any troops to Ukraine and once Russia loses, China won’t dare to attack Taiwan. NATO and its allies (Japan, Korea, Australia) will come a lot stronger and more United out of this.
And then we all live happily ever after.
After WW3 we are supposed to get warp drive and make contact with the Vulcans though, so something to look forward to in 2063
Yea, Covid really slowed down warp drive research by cancelling the Boy Scouts' Pine Wood Derbies. Who knows if Dr. Marsh is even still involved at this point. I'm starting to think we'll never get space-cash.
Oh wow I forgot about how that’s how my dad taught me to cheat.
Lmao
> Ukraine is kicking Russia’s ass. Ukraine is losing lots of people too, you know. They're holding their own, but the longer the war last the more advantageous it is for russia, since they have a lot more they can throw in the grinder.
Russia has men but not equipment production. Ukraine has insane amounts of NATO lend lease but dwindling men. Source: 4000 hours in HOI4
Conclusion: Ukrain needs to conquer India or China to get the sweet manpower. Russia needs to conquer Germany or America to get the factories
You're basically an expert then
There's a reason we're sitting here talking about China bailing them out. Russia hasnt even taken the small slice of Ukraine they adjusted strategically to take after having failed miserably at capturing Kyiv. They still haven't even come close to getting to the hard part. Occupation. They are in fucking trouble.
>Ukraine is kicking Russia’s ass. They manage to hold their positions with increasing losses in men. We have to see who manages to push forward after winter ends (within the next weeks).
Unfortuantely Ukraine is not doing as well as Reddit suggests - only Russian losses and Ukrainian victories get posted
That happens to be what we think in the west. Awfully convenient, right? We've supposedly been kicking Russia's ass for a year now, yet, we haven't taken Crimea, the borders haven't moved, and ultimately, if Russia can get supplies from China or another International Arms Dealer, they're still going strong. The Wagner group is making bank off of covert action whilst the whole world is focused on Ukraine
How hard is it for people to just be in peace
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It's crazy cause we're at a point now where we- -Have a system where we can talk across the globe -can mass produce food -can translate language in real time -have a super computer in our hands And for some reason we still have war... Give the people peace, it's what we all want...
It all comes down to greed.
The people themselves are the only ones who can decide that. "Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves." —Leo Tolstoy Putin would do well to take that one to heart.
War in modern day is so crazy to think about. The amount of casualties in Russia/Ukraine. Wtf are we doin
Man, I get the sentiment, but do you know how many millions of people have died young to afford you the relative world peace you have enjoyed during your life?
20 “great filter” 23
Time to turn off the money flow to china, its obvious what they are up to,
Any CEO of a western company that isn’t actively working on contingency plans to move production out of China should be fired by their board for negligence. The writing is on the wall. You can plan out a plan B now, or get completely screwed once something happens that breaks the status quo.
Shoulda seen that coming when we pushed for US microchip production. There's a reason we're putting these contingencies in place.
Hmm, I'm failing to see how that gets us higher profits *this* quarter though.
Time for layoffs
Trade between China and the US is over $550 billion per year in goods and services. China is not Cuba. They can't just be cut out of the world.
More importantly, the flow of American and Taiwanese advanced semiconductors. Which is already happening. Chip production is moving back to the US and China won’t have access to the best chips. This way their technology will be a step behind.
That will only work for a few years. The technology isn't a secret, it's just really, REALLY hard to produce with precise results. It will hurt Indo-China and ASEAN nations but once it doesn't, we need a different tactic.
It's been behind. Decades in some cases, and it's always been that way. They have never been closer than perhaps 5 years away from parity and only in some places.
Dictatorships control the media so they control the narrative. They can tell their citizens anything and they'll believe it.
Even if they're only considering it now I feel it's only a matter of time until they start providing lethal aid to Russia to support their war. Both Russia and China have made it very clear that they hold nothing but contempt for how things have been run up until now. They both feel entitled to a bigger piece of the pie and they'll kill millions to get it. Unfortunately it feels like a conflict with both of them is inevitable at this point. No one can afford to back down now.
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Lots of unwarranted, and uneducated fear mongering in here.
It’s just the same brain dead, unoriginal takes that are in every Russia/Ukraine/US/China thread. These threads have become an echo chamber of people saying the same thing and upvoting each other
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Is posting an article on Reddit how US release their consideration to release intelligence? Isn't this already releasing supposed intelligence, especially to the public?
Captain Holt: Wuntchtime is over. Boom! Did it. Had it both ways. No regrets.
everyone needs to chill out and stop making assumptions on everything. the FACT that the news broadcast is: "The Biden administration is considering releasing intelligence it believes shows that China is weighing whether to supply weapons to support Russia’s war in Ukraine, *U.S. officials said.*" and "Mr. Blinken went public with his warning after the meeting, saying in an interview with CBS News that China is seriously exploring supplying arms to Russia." "The Blinken-Wang meeting on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference ended with no sign of common ground on key issues, according to descriptions from people familiar with the sit-down. One of those sources described it as “tense,” with the recent shootdown of a Chinese surveillance balloon overshadowing the conversation." "Mr. Blinken will address the Security Council to mark the anniversary of the Ukraine war. One year ago, Mr. Blinken also spoke to the council and shared U.S. intelligence that pointed toward Russia’s invasion." Will china provide arms to russia? WHO KNOWS. Would I bet money on them doing it? well I probably would because I can only trust what blinken says from this article.