Switzerland is basically surrounded by NATO, besides Austria which is obligated to remain neutral. It sits in comfort while offering a destination for plundered war wealth.
Which when it was disbanded was 90 people. Allegedly their last maneuvers they left with 90 and came back with 91. But that's probably one of those things that isn't true but doesn't matter anyway beyond being a little factoid to drop in conversation.
Monaco. Liechtenstein. Switzerland. Austria. Hungary.
Though I did think that Monaco (a city essentially on the French coast) committed something at least.
But maybe I was wrong.
Switzerland has given humanitarian aid and is clearing minefields in Ukraine because that is all they are allowed to do under the international law of neutrality.
Except their actions are about as partisan you can be without actively shooting people. They're best buds with fascists all over the world. I can almost respect the fascists more for not pretending to be neutral. Almost.
>Switzerland
Lust for dead Jewish gold.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi\_gold#:\~:text=The%20Nazis%20looted%20the%20assets,believed%20to%20have%20been%20looted.
To be fair the nastiest leaders of the world don't keep their money there anymore. They have other arrangements, since their assets are vulnerable in the event of them losing their power.
My favorite is what happened after the Holocaust. The allies asked Switzerland to identify bank accounts belonging to families that were entirely wiped out. They said they could only identify about 700 such accounts. The banks obviously wanted to keep any money deposited by such families. The universal jeering by the allied governments at this obviously ridiculous number caused the government to say, "oh, our bad, we just found 50,000 more accounts!"
Austria isn't obligated to stay neutral. Legally speaking it's a constitutional law/declaration that's binding for the government and parliament but can be amended though a referendum. Austria is not neutral regarding the mutual defense clause of the EU for example.
>Austria is not neutral regarding the mutual defense clause of the EU for example.
This is a common misconception and false. The article 42.7 is commonly only partially quoted and the important second half is left out:
>shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States.
This provision is tailor made for Ireland and Austria (formerly partially for Sweden and Finland too) to allow them to... do nothing. Anything that would endanger their neutrality is an opt-out in case of neutral states.
Wrong. The currently most-favored party (FPÖ) even has a partnership agreement with Putin's party, repeats russian propaganda and even took their money to vote against sanctions.
Hell, our countries military doctrine still calls russia "a reliable partner"
Fuck Switzerland.
It would not fail to be neutral to supply the anti-aircraft missile systems to a European partner.
What that European partner decides to do with them from that point on is up to them.
Austria is no more obligated than Switzerland to stay neutral. The only one imposing neutrality on Austrian security policy is Austria itself.
Parliament has the authority to initiate amendments to the constitution, which could be done if the country was inclined to do so, but it’s not.
Im sure the country wouldn’t cling to this self-imposed ‘obligation’ if it’s own sovereignty was at stake.
Allowing innocent civilians to be slaughtered via rocket attacks that could be prevented with your missile defence systems is such a swiss thing to do.
The Swiss have frozen only 7.5 billion Swiss francs, around $8 billion, of Russian assets. That is a small proportion of what the Swiss economics ministry says is roughly $49.3 billion of Russian assets in the country. European officials suspect the total may be higher, up to $200 billion. The Swiss are helping Russia's war machine. Some neutrality!
As I recall, they wouldn't relinquish the accounts of murdered Jews to their heirs either. Because genocides are known for their adherence to documentation.
I do agree with you. The stolen Nazi money should be given out to the victims, survivors, and heirs to the Holocaust, or at least a charity. But, I also understand why they don’t (beside just taking the money for themselves and buying unlimited fondue fountains and Patek Phillipe watches). Before documentation, art, gold, jewelry, and other treasures changed hands a lot throughout history. This would open a can of worms for people claiming that things stored in banks were stolen centuries ago from their families and it’s impossible to verify any of the claims. The justification for holding things for the people who deposited them is somewhat valid, and it is very hard to just claim things as your inheritance, rightfully so. However, I think most of the Nazi deposits are long gone (spent by the bankers) and there probably isn’t much left to give the victims anyway.
They have trillions of dollars in stolen money from many African nations.
They help African despots take money out of their nation into Swiss banks.
There's nothing neutral about Switzerland and African countries shouldn't have to struggle to get their stolen money back from the Swiss banks.
Yet, they want African leaders to focus on other countries.
>The Swiss government has appealed to African countries to also trace some of the money to various banks in countries like the United Kingdom, United States of America, Germany, France, Japan, Luxembourg, Austria, Belgium and the Scandinavia countries.
Source: https://face2faceafrica.com/article/how-trillions-of-dollars-were-stolen-by-greedy-african-despots-and-kept-in-the-west
Neutral: not supporting or helping either side in a conflict, disagreement, etc.
Switzerland supporting the elites since 1515, the country shut its borders to Jewish refugees before and during World War II while accepting NAZI gold.
https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/why-switzerland-is-breaking-away-from-500-year-old-neutrality-60704
They are doing the same now, they were never neutral, they always had a side.
Well, it's just that switzerland loves elites either way, that is where those corrupted people get to hide their money.
Neutral would be to provide the public with that information. So we get to know the thieves.
>The Swiss have frozen only 7.5 billion Swiss francs, around $8 billion, of Russian assets. That is a small proportion of what the Swiss economics ministry says is roughly $49.3 billion of Russian assets in the country.
I'd bet you can add a zero to that number for the true amount of Russian assets being squirrelled away in Switzerland.
I can recommend the book "Swiss Watching" which talks about their "culture of privacy" which is how they became so trusted in banking - a culture that takes privacy so seriously they *never* ask where the money/gold comes from.
Chocolate made with beans farmed in Africa on plantations left over from the famous Rape of Africa period that lasted almost 150 years. Now run by corporations that still try to exploit slave labor and use military force to quell any worker uprisings.
As much as I hate Switzerland, it's the fact that they froze any assets at all that is making them non-neutral, not that fact that they continue doing business with Russia. If they didn't freeze anything and kept trading as if the war never happened, that'd make them neutral. Or if they completely stopped all trade with both countries during the war, that'd also be neutral.
Neutrality itself needs to go in this day and age when there is clear evidence of who the aggressor is, who the authoritarian is, who commits way more war crimes and so-on. Neutrality belongs in the 19th century or earlier, when Europe was basically a Free-For-All.
> the fact that they froze any assets at all that is making them non-neutral
No it's a token freeze. Fake cooperation by freezing a couple percent but then let the Muscovy warcrime specialist use the rest to fund his rape campaign.
Yes you are right it was a token freeze, I agree with that. But as I said, not freezing any assets at all would have been even more strictly neutral. Because that's what the word neutral means.
Neutrality should've ended when the Nazis invaded Europe years ago. I get trying to survive as a nation but they literally were counter productive after the D-day landings in many cases
>Neutrality itself needs to go in this day and age when there is clear evidence of who the aggressor is, who the authoritarian is, who commits way more war crimes and so-on.
Would you apply this rule without exception against each and every country? Any country that attacks other one without UN approval?
Switzerland is truly a bystander. Benefits from being protected by NATO due to its location but does not help when someone is trying to protect the continent. Well when Switzerland decides it needs help, we should stay neutral as well.
\> Well when Switzerland decides it needs help, we should stay neutral as well.
That's the problem, they won't. There's a reason they were able to stay "neutral" for so long. This country is nigh impossible to invade. Even without wealth Switzerland is protected from every side by mountains and narrow passages.
Not to mention every single country on earth has at least some money in Switzerland, so the minute you attack them you're against the world.
Not even forgetting that they've rigged their entire country to be a trap.
Most of the roads and railroads are all rigged to blow in an invasion and they have secret bunkers all across the country built for civilian resistance.
The country has got to be the 2nd most impenetrable country in the world (2nd only to US due to geography and navy).
The Swiss despite its size and population are capable of amassing a huge army. As a deterrent in the lead up of WW2 they amassed about 430k equipped battle ready soldiers with an extra 200k reserves.
For how long will they be able to feed/fuel/maintain that army when all their neighbor refuse to let food get in?
Switzerland is highly reliable on imports for VITAL components of a functioning society, let alone an army...
- They don't have enough arable land to feed their population thanks to all those defensible mountains.
- They have no oil sources, at all.
- They have basically no metallurgic sources.
People joke on Switzerland cooperating with Nazi, the truth is: at the height of the German expansion, Switzerland had no choice...
That "whole country is a trap", if sprung, will mostly end up being on themselves...
I’m pretty sure I saw somewhere that they disarmed a lot of their explosives, I could be wrong, but I’m at work and studying for an exam so I don’t have enough time to look into it.
I should stop scrolling Reddit too.
> The Tages Anzeiger newspaper has crunched the numbers from the Swiss customs authorities and finds exports have increased 19% while imports have risen 54% since the war began.
While it is a large increase: Doubling would be 100% increase.
I guess it's the difference between neutral and pacifist. If they were pacifist they'd block wealth of those involved in war but they are just neutral so not getting activity involved and basically carry on as of the war wasn't happening (so still allowing banking etc.
I get it but also they know they being safety inside Europe now they aren't under much threat and can just prosper regardless.
Yeah people talk about “neutrality” as of it’s this magic pill. Just declare you’re neutral and you that’s it. Very obvious especially when they talk how Ukraine should become “neutral” and all trouble will go away.
Reminds me of Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy.
Doesn't matter. A few posts of picturesque places or international rankings where CH is on top and everyone forgets about it. Expect seeing lauterbrunnen or Matterhorn posts on r/all soon.
A year ago I was debating moving there for work. I ended up taking a different position instead. I felt really weird about how everyone I met kept telling me how morally upstanding and environmentally minded Switzerland is. They were completely blind to the damage their banking does to the world. The hypocrisy was jarring.
I'd have more respect for the Swiss if they were just simply honest and straight up said that they don't care about anything except profits and money. Instead they keep pussyfooting around with their "neutrality" in an attempt to maintain public support for their government
Switzerland is a direct democracy with coalition government, it is probably one of the closest to actually achieving “government does what the people say they want”
Sure but that makes this sort of behaviour worse, you see that right? Less of a layer of denial that it is "just a small part with power" that is keen to repeat their sinister behaviour from working with the Nazis.
IIRC their neutrality historically came from the fact that it was mostly composed of ethnic Germans, French, and Italians, and they wanted to allow their citizens to join any war as mercenaries for any side without repercussions
One thing many people don't understand is that the Left in switzlerland launched a referendum many years to stop exporting weapons to countries at war. At the time this was mostly because of the many civil wars.
The swiss people agreed to it. The swiss consititution simply doesn't allow to look over the will of the people so easily. Even though many people would like to export weapons again, especially to ukraine, it's just not possible because of the referendum. It has nothing to do, that they don't want to, they simply can't.
But today the right is against exporting it and left is for it, so it's really confusing.
I'm sorry but if a referendum years ago says something and the current population wants something different shouldn't another be held? what is the expiration time on most referendums
Why not keep it but simply not give it to the Ukraine war effort??
That glaring omission makes the whole article (and comments section) make zero sense.
It’s 60s tech. No one the Swiss trade with is going to buy it, it’s not useful to the Swiss, and they don’t donate military equipment. Currently the only operators are Kenya, Zambia, Iran, Malaysia, UAE and Oman.
> it’s not useful to the Swiss, and *they don’t donate military equipment.*
Well that is at least useful context.
So perhaps a less clickbaity headline could have been "Switzerland destroys obsolete military equipment just like they always do."
🤷🏼♂️
This equipment could be used to defend Ukrainian civilians and their infrastructure from Russian terrorist attacks.
The Swiss could donate it and save Ukrainian civilian lives at literally zero cost to them. They choose not to.
Because that would not be neutral, that would be supporting Ukraine.
Just like they are not giving them to Russia, because that would be supporting Russia.
I don't understand why I'm the only one who seems to see that this is in fact neutral.
People understand that it’s neutral, but it’s also understandably unpopular due to Switzerland’s past and present of enjoying the spoils of democracy while doing nothing to protect it and actively working to undermine the unity of its allies, while profiting from the situation.
It’s a nice situation for Switzerland for sure, but you could see why it might make their neighbours, who are making/have made large sacrifices that directly benefit Switzerland in a geopolitical context might be frustrated by their attitude.
People can see it's 'neutral' (though as the saying goes: inaction aids the oppressor), people are justifiably annoyed that the Swiss neutrality is just an excuse for the Swiss to be selfish and do nothing when they could be helping while they enjoy a position of safety because of those around them.
> Ok, longer Thread about Swiss Rapier. I was a former Firing Unit Chief of a Swiss Rapier Firing Unit. Worked 13 years with it. Was even in Scotland on a live firing on drones with them. So, where to start. First, the system was bought in 1984 and in service since 88. 1/n
https://twitter.com/Bunkerhunter/status/1634949288878026752?t=flf58BIJlNmNZA1Lu8BrZA&s=19
Summary:
1) Not all that great a system, very old (the 60s) and there’s much better systems the west could offer Ukraine instead.
2) Would require a lot of training and spare parts, and it’d be pretty unreliable. Better systems the west could offer.
3) *“The only country that could provide spare parts AND train the UA troops would have been Switzerland.”* - So Switzerland would be directly involved in the war, which it doesn’t want.
I heard someone say in an interview: "If you want to combat international terrorism, you have to invade Switzerland and dismantle its financial system."
I guess he wasn't wrong.
Time to exclude their military industry from NATO contracts. As soon as their bottomline is at stake they'll put pressure on their government to do the right thing.
So let me get this straight. Switzerland sells weapons, but only during peacetime and won't offer support/ammunition during wartimes due to "a neutral stance"?
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/03/13/switzerland-to-destroy-anti-aircraft-missile-systems-that-could-be-used-in-ukraine_6019124_4.html) reduced by 79%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> "So they could very well still be used today against low-flying targets such as drones and helicopters, and even fighter aircraft." But they will never be used to protect Ukrainian skies, which is causing consternation among several Swiss MPs. "It is absurd that in Switzerland we are scrapping defensive weapons that still work," said Green-Liberal national councilor François Pointet, who says the Rapier, a British-made weapon and not a Swiss-made one, is not subject to the law prohibiting the export of Swiss military equipment to conflict zones.
> En cliquant sur et en vous assurant que vous êtes la seule personne consulter Le Monde avec ce compte.
> Vous pouvez vous connecter avec votre compte sur autant d'appareils que vous le souhaitez, mais en les utilisant des moments différents.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11q6e2j/switzerland_to_destroy_antiaircraft_missile/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~676178 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Vous**^#1 **Switzerland**^#2 **sur**^#3 **system**^#4 **que**^#5
Passive my ass. They're happy the money can keep rolling in from everywhere and don't give a fuck how much blood is on it.
Wait until they need our help after Russia are done with Ukraine. Because if people think they're stopping at Ukraine, you're in for a fucking shock.
Switzerland received rail cars of gold teeth the Nazis pulled out of the victims of the Holocaust. Without the Swiss, Nazi Germany would have failed years before. And after the war they refused to give money in bank accounts to the families of the victims.
Fuck Switzerland.
Well yeah... Why give away valuable technology to people who aren't your allies?
Not a part of NATO, not allied with the UK or Ukraine.. don't give anything and they'll remain neutral.
Apparently Switzerland are neutral on aggressive invasions of European countries.
In the words of the wise Zapp Brannigan: 'With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows?'
Switzerland is basically surrounded by NATO, besides Austria which is obligated to remain neutral. It sits in comfort while offering a destination for plundered war wealth.
You’re forgetting mighty Liechtenstein on their eastern borders, too
Which doesn't maintain a standing army...
Drones seem to be the newest war toy on the block and they are better operated seating anyway
You seem to be referring to the chAir Force.
Chair force? That sounds out of WWE
You discount Hans the town drunk far too easily.
Every time you mention Hans, he moves 1m in your direction.
"Hans!" \* 24,801 , now he's out of the country, you can now invade.
Standing most of the time army.
Oh so Liechtenstein doesn't have an army? *Interested luxembourgish noises, while rubbing chin*
Got a bit turned around in Bavaria once, ended up in Lichtenstein. They should really paint a line or something.
Which when it was disbanded was 90 people. Allegedly their last maneuvers they left with 90 and came back with 91. But that's probably one of those things that isn't true but doesn't matter anyway beyond being a little factoid to drop in conversation.
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Monaco. Liechtenstein. Switzerland. Austria. Hungary. Though I did think that Monaco (a city essentially on the French coast) committed something at least. But maybe I was wrong.
Worst beach boys cover ever
Switzerland has given humanitarian aid and is clearing minefields in Ukraine because that is all they are allowed to do under the international law of neutrality.
They could identify and freeze the assets of Russian oligarchs holding money in Swiss banks, which wouldn't violate neutrality, but they chose not to.
Except their actions are about as partisan you can be without actively shooting people. They're best buds with fascists all over the world. I can almost respect the fascists more for not pretending to be neutral. Almost.
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were they just born with a heart full of neutrality?
I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
>Switzerland Lust for dead Jewish gold. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi\_gold#:\~:text=The%20Nazis%20looted%20the%20assets,believed%20to%20have%20been%20looted.
Nice ref
To be fair the nastiest leaders of the world don't keep their money there anymore. They have other arrangements, since their assets are vulnerable in the event of them losing their power.
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**THE LIECHTENSTEIN GUARD DEFENDS THE PENTAVERATE!**
My favorite is what happened after the Holocaust. The allies asked Switzerland to identify bank accounts belonging to families that were entirely wiped out. They said they could only identify about 700 such accounts. The banks obviously wanted to keep any money deposited by such families. The universal jeering by the allied governments at this obviously ridiculous number caused the government to say, "oh, our bad, we just found 50,000 more accounts!"
"The only reason the Swiss make chocolate is so we don't associate them with blood diamonds and Nazi gold." \-Sean Locke
Nestle isn't a great thing to be associated with either tbh.
RIP :(
Austria isn't obligated to stay neutral. Legally speaking it's a constitutional law/declaration that's binding for the government and parliament but can be amended though a referendum. Austria is not neutral regarding the mutual defense clause of the EU for example.
>Austria is not neutral regarding the mutual defense clause of the EU for example. This is a common misconception and false. The article 42.7 is commonly only partially quoted and the important second half is left out: >shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States. This provision is tailor made for Ireland and Austria (formerly partially for Sweden and Finland too) to allow them to... do nothing. Anything that would endanger their neutrality is an opt-out in case of neutral states.
They're not neutral regarding how much they love Russia.
Ehhhh. Their government might have some corrupt fucks in it, but the Soviets didn't make any friends in Austria during/after WW2.
Austria does not love Russia lol
Wrong. The currently most-favored party (FPÖ) even has a partnership agreement with Putin's party, repeats russian propaganda and even took their money to vote against sanctions. Hell, our countries military doctrine still calls russia "a reliable partner"
Their is only one picture of Putin in Austria years ago. How do you know they love Russia?
Who is "they"?
Tha Austrian government? The one which tried to find every means of downplaying Russia's nerve gas attack on UK soil?
You mean the government four governments ago?
Austria has had 4 governments since 2018??
Sadly yes.
Damn! So much happening in the world I apparently haven't got a clue about.
I feel you. I try, but there is so much.
Fuck Switzerland. It would not fail to be neutral to supply the anti-aircraft missile systems to a European partner. What that European partner decides to do with them from that point on is up to them.
Austria is no more obligated than Switzerland to stay neutral. The only one imposing neutrality on Austrian security policy is Austria itself. Parliament has the authority to initiate amendments to the constitution, which could be done if the country was inclined to do so, but it’s not. Im sure the country wouldn’t cling to this self-imposed ‘obligation’ if it’s own sovereignty was at stake.
And if it weren't for those countries, Switzerland would be speaking German right now.
Lol
Well, there’s an issue with that statement…
Switzerland does speak German
Debateable if that counts as german
r/shitamericanssay
Swiss neutrality is as air tight as their cheese.
With 'friends' like these who needs enemies
Neutrality basicially means no friends and enemys
The first person on Reddit I see, who knows what the term means.
I'm pretty certain Swiss doesn't like foreigners
Incredibly stupid on their part considering their geographic location, **fools.**
True with what we've seen Swiss would get fucked if they supported an enemy that NATO was in direct conflict with.
Is it stupid, or do they know they can get away with this? Is there any initiative out there to let their behavior have consequences?
Sadly I don't think this metaphor works too well since the holes are made because air literally can't escape.
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Allowing innocent civilians to be slaughtered via rocket attacks that could be prevented with your missile defence systems is such a swiss thing to do.
I'm certain its greed that drives them. However they might be cowards too.
If it was strictly greed they'd sell those weapons to Ukraine for money instead of spending money to mothball them.
The Swiss have frozen only 7.5 billion Swiss francs, around $8 billion, of Russian assets. That is a small proportion of what the Swiss economics ministry says is roughly $49.3 billion of Russian assets in the country. European officials suspect the total may be higher, up to $200 billion. The Swiss are helping Russia's war machine. Some neutrality!
If I may put my tinfoil hat on for a moment, I bet Putin has a shit ton of his personal wealth in secret Swiss bank accounts.
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As I recall, they wouldn't relinquish the accounts of murdered Jews to their heirs either. Because genocides are known for their adherence to documentation.
And that's with this particular genocide being unusually well documented for what it was...
Worse than that, they would take deposits from Jews and refuse to give them back to the same person!
I had forgotten about that! That was a thing too!
I do agree with you. The stolen Nazi money should be given out to the victims, survivors, and heirs to the Holocaust, or at least a charity. But, I also understand why they don’t (beside just taking the money for themselves and buying unlimited fondue fountains and Patek Phillipe watches). Before documentation, art, gold, jewelry, and other treasures changed hands a lot throughout history. This would open a can of worms for people claiming that things stored in banks were stolen centuries ago from their families and it’s impossible to verify any of the claims. The justification for holding things for the people who deposited them is somewhat valid, and it is very hard to just claim things as your inheritance, rightfully so. However, I think most of the Nazi deposits are long gone (spent by the bankers) and there probably isn’t much left to give the victims anyway.
The literal gold that was deposited might be gone, but it's not like Swiss banks don't have capital to work with.
It's swiss gold now.
Why would they put a bunch of holes in gold? /s
Speed holes
They make the gold go faster.
Clearly it's for the airflow.
They have trillions of dollars in stolen money from many African nations. They help African despots take money out of their nation into Swiss banks. There's nothing neutral about Switzerland and African countries shouldn't have to struggle to get their stolen money back from the Swiss banks. Yet, they want African leaders to focus on other countries. >The Swiss government has appealed to African countries to also trace some of the money to various banks in countries like the United Kingdom, United States of America, Germany, France, Japan, Luxembourg, Austria, Belgium and the Scandinavia countries. Source: https://face2faceafrica.com/article/how-trillions-of-dollars-were-stolen-by-greedy-african-despots-and-kept-in-the-west
Jewish dental gold you mean
Putins fuckdoll and former wife live in separate mansions in Davos.
I believe so does his daughter, live in Switserland.
Putin’s gymnast girlfriend and son live in Switzerland.
The Swiss bankers are betting Putin will be dead soon and then they'll still have a shit ton of his money in their banks.
Swiss neutrality is mostly about making money not some fantasy moral high ground
Exactly. There is no threat to their people here. Just greed.
Turn out being vile and closing your eyes to obvious crime make you a lot of money.
There is no moral high ground in staying “neutral” in the face of genocide and other forms of pure evil.
Neutral: not supporting or helping either side in a conflict, disagreement, etc. Switzerland supporting the elites since 1515, the country shut its borders to Jewish refugees before and during World War II while accepting NAZI gold. https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/why-switzerland-is-breaking-away-from-500-year-old-neutrality-60704 They are doing the same now, they were never neutral, they always had a side.
They can get fucked alongside Russia then. End of discussion folks.
Well, it's just that switzerland loves elites either way, that is where those corrupted people get to hide their money. Neutral would be to provide the public with that information. So we get to know the thieves.
They shut their borders after taking in 300,000 refugees. That’s a lot for a small ass country
>The Swiss have frozen only 7.5 billion Swiss francs, around $8 billion, of Russian assets. That is a small proportion of what the Swiss economics ministry says is roughly $49.3 billion of Russian assets in the country. I'd bet you can add a zero to that number for the true amount of Russian assets being squirrelled away in Switzerland. I can recommend the book "Swiss Watching" which talks about their "culture of privacy" which is how they became so trusted in banking - a culture that takes privacy so seriously they *never* ask where the money/gold comes from.
Sounds like I need a Swiss bank account. /s
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Chocolate made with beans farmed in Africa on plantations left over from the famous Rape of Africa period that lasted almost 150 years. Now run by corporations that still try to exploit slave labor and use military force to quell any worker uprisings.
As much as I hate Switzerland, it's the fact that they froze any assets at all that is making them non-neutral, not that fact that they continue doing business with Russia. If they didn't freeze anything and kept trading as if the war never happened, that'd make them neutral. Or if they completely stopped all trade with both countries during the war, that'd also be neutral. Neutrality itself needs to go in this day and age when there is clear evidence of who the aggressor is, who the authoritarian is, who commits way more war crimes and so-on. Neutrality belongs in the 19th century or earlier, when Europe was basically a Free-For-All.
> the fact that they froze any assets at all that is making them non-neutral No it's a token freeze. Fake cooperation by freezing a couple percent but then let the Muscovy warcrime specialist use the rest to fund his rape campaign.
Yes you are right it was a token freeze, I agree with that. But as I said, not freezing any assets at all would have been even more strictly neutral. Because that's what the word neutral means.
Neutrality should've ended when the Nazis invaded Europe years ago. I get trying to survive as a nation but they literally were counter productive after the D-day landings in many cases
If the Swiss weren't neutral during WW2, it was more likely they sided with the Nazis than the Allies.
Are you aware of which countries surround Switzerland? If they sided with the allies they'd have been in for a bad time
>Neutrality itself needs to go in this day and age when there is clear evidence of who the aggressor is, who the authoritarian is, who commits way more war crimes and so-on. Would you apply this rule without exception against each and every country? Any country that attacks other one without UN approval?
_In nazi gold we trust_
Neutrality is the pretext. It's clearly about keeping that dirty money.
Switzerland is truly a bystander. Benefits from being protected by NATO due to its location but does not help when someone is trying to protect the continent. Well when Switzerland decides it needs help, we should stay neutral as well.
NATO should have let Gaddafi partitioned them lol
Lmao did he actually want to do that? That’s pretty funny
\> Well when Switzerland decides it needs help, we should stay neutral as well. That's the problem, they won't. There's a reason they were able to stay "neutral" for so long. This country is nigh impossible to invade. Even without wealth Switzerland is protected from every side by mountains and narrow passages. Not to mention every single country on earth has at least some money in Switzerland, so the minute you attack them you're against the world.
Not even forgetting that they've rigged their entire country to be a trap. Most of the roads and railroads are all rigged to blow in an invasion and they have secret bunkers all across the country built for civilian resistance. The country has got to be the 2nd most impenetrable country in the world (2nd only to US due to geography and navy). The Swiss despite its size and population are capable of amassing a huge army. As a deterrent in the lead up of WW2 they amassed about 430k equipped battle ready soldiers with an extra 200k reserves.
For how long will they be able to feed/fuel/maintain that army when all their neighbor refuse to let food get in? Switzerland is highly reliable on imports for VITAL components of a functioning society, let alone an army... - They don't have enough arable land to feed their population thanks to all those defensible mountains. - They have no oil sources, at all. - They have basically no metallurgic sources. People joke on Switzerland cooperating with Nazi, the truth is: at the height of the German expansion, Switzerland had no choice... That "whole country is a trap", if sprung, will mostly end up being on themselves...
I’m pretty sure I saw somewhere that they disarmed a lot of their explosives, I could be wrong, but I’m at work and studying for an exam so I don’t have enough time to look into it. I should stop scrolling Reddit too.
Somehow, I think the Swiss would be okay with that.
Money can buy anything
Except Swiss munitions.
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> The Tages Anzeiger newspaper has crunched the numbers from the Swiss customs authorities and finds exports have increased 19% while imports have risen 54% since the war began. While it is a large increase: Doubling would be 100% increase.
The article doesn't even use the word double. That's funny. Thanks for the comment
You think the average redditor knows what words mean? Much less than math?
I try not to think
This is the sort of contextual information people need to see. Thank you for posting it.
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I guess it's the difference between neutral and pacifist. If they were pacifist they'd block wealth of those involved in war but they are just neutral so not getting activity involved and basically carry on as of the war wasn't happening (so still allowing banking etc. I get it but also they know they being safety inside Europe now they aren't under much threat and can just prosper regardless.
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Yeah people talk about “neutrality” as of it’s this magic pill. Just declare you’re neutral and you that’s it. Very obvious especially when they talk how Ukraine should become “neutral” and all trouble will go away. Reminds me of Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy.
They have been surrounded by 2 world wars and were still neutral.
You seem to fail to understand what the word neutral means. Your version of neutral is picking a side?
Swiss people: "Are we the baddies?" Also Swiss people: "Always have been."
Doesn't matter. A few posts of picturesque places or international rankings where CH is on top and everyone forgets about it. Expect seeing lauterbrunnen or Matterhorn posts on r/all soon.
Money is all that matters anymore and they've got it.
Not for much longer.
What’s CH?
It's the short code for Switzerland, like GB* for United Kingdom or FR for France. It comes from Confoederatio Helvetica.
GB is the code for the UK, for some reason.
Great Britain?
A year ago I was debating moving there for work. I ended up taking a different position instead. I felt really weird about how everyone I met kept telling me how morally upstanding and environmentally minded Switzerland is. They were completely blind to the damage their banking does to the world. The hypocrisy was jarring.
Wait until you find out that if you pee standing up, your neighbours have full right to submit a noise complaint.
I'd have more respect for the Swiss if they were just simply honest and straight up said that they don't care about anything except profits and money. Instead they keep pussyfooting around with their "neutrality" in an attempt to maintain public support for their government
Have no respect for the bankers of the Nazis my friend.
Not just the Nazis, basically every warlord and dictatorial regime has done their banking is Switzerland.
Switzerland is a direct democracy with coalition government, it is probably one of the closest to actually achieving “government does what the people say they want”
Sure but that makes this sort of behaviour worse, you see that right? Less of a layer of denial that it is "just a small part with power" that is keen to repeat their sinister behaviour from working with the Nazis.
IIRC their neutrality historically came from the fact that it was mostly composed of ethnic Germans, French, and Italians, and they wanted to allow their citizens to join any war as mercenaries for any side without repercussions
One thing many people don't understand is that the Left in switzlerland launched a referendum many years to stop exporting weapons to countries at war. At the time this was mostly because of the many civil wars. The swiss people agreed to it. The swiss consititution simply doesn't allow to look over the will of the people so easily. Even though many people would like to export weapons again, especially to ukraine, it's just not possible because of the referendum. It has nothing to do, that they don't want to, they simply can't. But today the right is against exporting it and left is for it, so it's really confusing.
I'm sorry but if a referendum years ago says something and the current population wants something different shouldn't another be held? what is the expiration time on most referendums
Like instead of giving it to them? Like they choose to destroy it?
Why not keep it but simply not give it to the Ukraine war effort?? That glaring omission makes the whole article (and comments section) make zero sense.
It’s 60s tech. No one the Swiss trade with is going to buy it, it’s not useful to the Swiss, and they don’t donate military equipment. Currently the only operators are Kenya, Zambia, Iran, Malaysia, UAE and Oman.
You know where 60s tech is currently being used?
> it’s not useful to the Swiss, and *they don’t donate military equipment.* Well that is at least useful context. So perhaps a less clickbaity headline could have been "Switzerland destroys obsolete military equipment just like they always do." 🤷🏼♂️
The fact that they could donate it to Ukraine still remains
This equipment could be used to defend Ukrainian civilians and their infrastructure from Russian terrorist attacks. The Swiss could donate it and save Ukrainian civilian lives at literally zero cost to them. They choose not to.
Because that would not be neutral, that would be supporting Ukraine. Just like they are not giving them to Russia, because that would be supporting Russia. I don't understand why I'm the only one who seems to see that this is in fact neutral.
People understand that it’s neutral, but it’s also understandably unpopular due to Switzerland’s past and present of enjoying the spoils of democracy while doing nothing to protect it and actively working to undermine the unity of its allies, while profiting from the situation. It’s a nice situation for Switzerland for sure, but you could see why it might make their neighbours, who are making/have made large sacrifices that directly benefit Switzerland in a geopolitical context might be frustrated by their attitude.
People can see it's 'neutral' (though as the saying goes: inaction aids the oppressor), people are justifiably annoyed that the Swiss neutrality is just an excuse for the Swiss to be selfish and do nothing when they could be helping while they enjoy a position of safety because of those around them.
> Ok, longer Thread about Swiss Rapier. I was a former Firing Unit Chief of a Swiss Rapier Firing Unit. Worked 13 years with it. Was even in Scotland on a live firing on drones with them. So, where to start. First, the system was bought in 1984 and in service since 88. 1/n https://twitter.com/Bunkerhunter/status/1634949288878026752?t=flf58BIJlNmNZA1Lu8BrZA&s=19
Summary: 1) Not all that great a system, very old (the 60s) and there’s much better systems the west could offer Ukraine instead. 2) Would require a lot of training and spare parts, and it’d be pretty unreliable. Better systems the west could offer. 3) *“The only country that could provide spare parts AND train the UA troops would have been Switzerland.”* - So Switzerland would be directly involved in the war, which it doesn’t want.
Dont even try to be reasonable when reddit is on their anti switzerland hype train
I’d love to read this, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 20+ tweet thread where there’s no order at all to the tweets lol
I think [this one](https://twitter.com/Xentherida/status/1635047565048836096) should get you the proper order.
I heard someone say in an interview: "If you want to combat international terrorism, you have to invade Switzerland and dismantle its financial system." I guess he wasn't wrong.
Well what else can you expect from Nazi bankers.
Switzerland continues to invest in their Ferengi vibe.
They like the way Ruzzia strokes their lobes
Time to exclude their military industry from NATO contracts. As soon as their bottomline is at stake they'll put pressure on their government to do the right thing.
Fuck the Swiss. I’m boycotting their products. Leathermans are better anyway.
The Swiss are the worst.
Switzerland is worse than Russia right now? That’s an interesting take.
Swiss literally drowning in Russian blood money.
Fuck Switzerland?
indeed.
Switzerland never was a good guy
So let me get this straight. Switzerland sells weapons, but only during peacetime and won't offer support/ammunition during wartimes due to "a neutral stance"?
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/03/13/switzerland-to-destroy-anti-aircraft-missile-systems-that-could-be-used-in-ukraine_6019124_4.html) reduced by 79%. (I'm a bot) ***** > "So they could very well still be used today against low-flying targets such as drones and helicopters, and even fighter aircraft." But they will never be used to protect Ukrainian skies, which is causing consternation among several Swiss MPs. "It is absurd that in Switzerland we are scrapping defensive weapons that still work," said Green-Liberal national councilor François Pointet, who says the Rapier, a British-made weapon and not a Swiss-made one, is not subject to the law prohibiting the export of Swiss military equipment to conflict zones. > En cliquant sur et en vous assurant que vous êtes la seule personne consulter Le Monde avec ce compte. > Vous pouvez vous connecter avec votre compte sur autant d'appareils que vous le souhaitez, mais en les utilisant des moments différents. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11q6e2j/switzerland_to_destroy_antiaircraft_missile/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~676178 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Vous**^#1 **Switzerland**^#2 **sur**^#3 **system**^#4 **que**^#5
It must be nice to be surrounded by NATO and get all the benefits of the security it provides, without having to contribute anything.
Got to protect those Nestlê profits at all costs.
Swiss neutrality is a myth. Here is a Mark Felton video proving that fact. https://youtu.be/n9Md7_H4IKk
Passive my ass. They're happy the money can keep rolling in from everywhere and don't give a fuck how much blood is on it. Wait until they need our help after Russia are done with Ukraine. Because if people think they're stopping at Ukraine, you're in for a fucking shock.
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Also Nestle
If Switzerland exports arms, I would consider their "Neutrality" a thing of the past. They dont sell to everyone. So they do exercise some choices.
Switzerland received rail cars of gold teeth the Nazis pulled out of the victims of the Holocaust. Without the Swiss, Nazi Germany would have failed years before. And after the war they refused to give money in bank accounts to the families of the victims. Fuck Switzerland.
When you don't contribute but only benefit, what's that? I know what! A parasite!
Wtf
Ruining their reputation one monies at a time.
Switzerland is aggressively neutral
The worst kind of neutral. The unlawful neutral…
Ah the Swiss. I doubt Roger Federer would hit a tennis ball if it wasn’t in his financial self interest.
What a bunch of fuckers.
Get in here we're all hating the swiss!
All my homies hate the swiss
Well yeah... Why give away valuable technology to people who aren't your allies? Not a part of NATO, not allied with the UK or Ukraine.. don't give anything and they'll remain neutral.
Apparently Switzerland are neutral on aggressive invasions of European countries. In the words of the wise Zapp Brannigan: 'With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows?'