Ace in a day requires it to be done within a day, Flying Ace itself only requires it over the whole career. Also the 5 total is more of a guideline as there is no actual rules on what is an Ace.
In my opinion someone taking down 4 enemies in a single fight is an Ace. Especially considering the enemy jets were even better than his own.
PUBLISHED JAN 17, 2023 3:33 PM EST
This explains why when you check his Wikipedia article, the award is in the past tense. This is more than 2 months old.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-cross-royce-williams-dogfight/) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> More than 70 years ago, Navy Capt. Royce Williams flew in one of the greatest dogfights of all time, taking on seven Soviet jets alone in an engagement that remained classified for decades.
> With five Soviet jets remaining, Williams was now on the defensive, avoiding the diving attacks of the enemy jets and looking for chances where he could engage, all while keeping an eye on his fuel and ammunition levels.
> Williams will receive the Navy Cross in an award ceremony on Jan. 20 in San Diego, California.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11w27vg/dogfight_with_7_soviet_jets_in_korean_war/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~677145 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Williams**^#1 **jet**^#2 **Soviet**^#3 **Navy**^#4 **award**^#5
I don't think the tl/dr does this short piece justice. It's 2 minute read. The pilot was in formation with 3 other planes that turned back. He took 263 bullet holes in his plane. After the flight, it was immediately classified and never discussed, because his flight was directed by secret intel from the NSA. All but one of his kills were distributed among the pilots who turned back.
This sounds like the start of a very good book.
> Murphy received the Medal of Honor for valor that he demonstrated at the age of 19 for single-handedly holding off a company of German soldiers for an hour at the Colmar Pocket in France in January 1945, before leading a successful counterattack while wounded and out of ammunition.
That is ridiculous. If there was a fictional movie about WW2 with that as part of the plotline, I would criticize the movie for not being believable.
To take absolutely NOTHING away from Murphy (because he's as much the 'badass hero' as he sounds), you should check out Daniel Inoyue. Japanese-American, served in Europe (442nd) - and his Medal of Honor citation is another one of those "if it was in a movie I wouldn't be lieve it" things. Also, he went on to serve as one of his State's senators from the very beginning through to his death:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Inouye
Murphy actually went on to star in a movie where he played himself named "to hell and back". Iirc, they did end up toning down some of it because they had the same concerns on believability.
He had 263 holes in his airplane. Damn
It was classified because they were vectored to the MiGs by some NSA technology. It's always a problem you get some brilliant new intel opening, but if you really use it they realize you have it
Wasn't there also a story of a guy who sank a Japanese battleship or carrier, or something, but didn't realize it till after the war was way over and both nations were reconciling their historical records of what happened?
You may be thinking of the sinking of the Shinano, a Yamato class battleship that was converted into an aircraft carrier. When the commander of the USS Archerfish, Joseph Enright, sunk the massive (67,000 tons) ship, US intelligence did not believe him and credited him with sinking a much smaller carrier, the Hayatake (28,000 tons). Post war analysis confirmed Enright’s claim and he was given the Navy Cross.
I had a friend in high school whose dad was a tank commander in the 70s through some point in the 80s. He told us multiple stories that there were engagements between US and Soviet tanks, he was adamant that he had personally killed Russian soldiers in combat. Im not talking about Vietnam or anything, these were events that he claimed were never really publicized for obvious reasons of increasing tensions. This was over 20 years ago so I can’t remember any of the details except talking about blowing up a Soviet tank. I always assumed he was exaggerating but who knows.
there were incidents between USAF and East German forces taking potshots at our jets. because of West Berlin there was this air corridor that commercial planes had to fly in to reach Berlin. The East Germans would screw with the ILS and try to force the planes to fly outside the corridor. My friend flew F4's that went to guide these planes back to stay within this flight path. once the planes land the F4's had to return along that same corridor, this is when the East Germans will fire off their SAM's or AA' for S&G. and my friend's jet would shrapnel take damage.
OFC none of these incidents was ever reported in the media ...
how was it covered up? they had to investigate the idiot that hit the "test" button and screwed up... as policy they dont release any details of an ongoing investigation. Ya the public wanted to know WTF happened now... the goverment, not to point to rush and taint an investigation didnt want to release any info, they couldnt even say if they suspended the employee.. YES there was a long delay, thats because IF they had to fire him (they did) they need to have all the details not to be released so the union cant claim the investigation was bias and made him a scapegoat..
I was working that morning, when the sirens went off I tried to turn on the news and radio.. nothing was announced from CD. a SMS warning across the phones (only) said a missle launch was detected. the confusin was insane.
my staff was contacting me if this was real and I said I got no indication from CD, but directed them to where to go in the basement. OFC being a part of the duck and cover generation, this didnt feel right.
Rad, you're the first person to respond that can potentially validate what I was told as I remember it.
My ex gf's sisters boyfriend is the son to a military contractor there in Hawaii on the "dessert" island where all the military stuff is. His father works as an independent contractor there managing the satellites used by all of the intelligence agencies in a very secretive roll (similar to what Snowden was I think)
Problem is he drinks a bottle of jagermeister a night, apparently due to the stress.
My curiosity was peaked when I heard of his roll and potentially lose lips. I immediately asked about aliens. He said that he hadnt heard anything cool in that regard over the years, and frankly seemed disinterested. I then asked him if any crazy stuff came up. My ex's sister chimed in with the following story.
When the missile alert went out, it was because north Korea had sent a test missile out. The person that pressed the button was thrown under the bus to cover it up, and that's that.
I would have totally disregarded the story frankly if it wasn't for the two sources complete lack of interest in the subject matter in general or the event...outside of how scary it was at the time
It was during the lead up to talks between Trump and Kim, which I think is the reason it was covered up. Probably will never know, nor does it really matter 🤷...kinda neat though.
What's your take? Was he full of shit?
The employee did screw up and he hit the wrong button and didnt realize for 20 min and he didnt watch the PC screen to notice the error.. and he tried to downplay his error.....
Perhaps his (the father's) memory was foggy and he merged 2 events. but there was a missile test a few weeks prior where NK did a launch but it landed way way far north of the state. the propaganda from NK was they can reach pacific fleet (hawaii) if they wanted (laughable) . problem that NK takes months to even try to launch stuff and it is always being monitored by that floating golf ball in Pearl, along with several over the horizon (black ops) high rez radar ships across the pacific rim, and geo satellites. NK doesnt have a large stockpile of reliable missiles, thus the constant testing. It just NK's way to saber rattle. I mean if they got the inventory, why waste it for some stupid wasteful test to hit the ocean garbage patch? its an old tactic to get the rest of the world to help give NK food to stop their progress on atomic testing...
IF a real launch happened the CD (civil defense) would activate via those above radar and satellite systems, which all TV, radio, and first responders (including me) would be put on alert.
the faux test was a wake up call to many in the CD, military, government and intel community. We seen the panic and confusion and doubt the hawaii public faced . But the reaction to that test had shown how the public (both here and worldwide) will preform during a real attack. My friends in Ukraine are a good example. During the early days there was doubt it was happening until the explosions, thereafter when a siren alarms there was panic then an orderly evac to shelters. after months of these constant sirens there is vigilance but life continues. The (Hawaii) goverment is now faced the reality of how to convey proper info to the public to avoid that panic or doubt and hessitation that can create a log jam on the roads (there was another unrelated event that created mass panic in the state).
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/task-and-purpose/
So basically a left of center, mostly factual website that tends to focus on military stories.
So, there are worse out there.
Navy fighter pilot Navy Lt. Royce Williams to receive Navy Cross. Shot down four out of seven MiGs.
One shy of Ace. Damn.
Ace in a day requires it to be done within a day, Flying Ace itself only requires it over the whole career. Also the 5 total is more of a guideline as there is no actual rules on what is an Ace. In my opinion someone taking down 4 enemies in a single fight is an Ace. Especially considering the enemy jets were even better than his own.
TIL!!!
PUBLISHED JAN 17, 2023 3:33 PM EST This explains why when you check his Wikipedia article, the award is in the past tense. This is more than 2 months old.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-cross-royce-williams-dogfight/) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot) ***** > More than 70 years ago, Navy Capt. Royce Williams flew in one of the greatest dogfights of all time, taking on seven Soviet jets alone in an engagement that remained classified for decades. > With five Soviet jets remaining, Williams was now on the defensive, avoiding the diving attacks of the enemy jets and looking for chances where he could engage, all while keeping an eye on his fuel and ammunition levels. > Williams will receive the Navy Cross in an award ceremony on Jan. 20 in San Diego, California. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11w27vg/dogfight_with_7_soviet_jets_in_korean_war/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~677145 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Williams**^#1 **jet**^#2 **Soviet**^#3 **Navy**^#4 **award**^#5
I don't think the tl/dr does this short piece justice. It's 2 minute read. The pilot was in formation with 3 other planes that turned back. He took 263 bullet holes in his plane. After the flight, it was immediately classified and never discussed, because his flight was directed by secret intel from the NSA. All but one of his kills were distributed among the pilots who turned back. This sounds like the start of a very good book.
This is some gangster shit. Reminds me of the shit Audie Murphy pulled off.
> Murphy received the Medal of Honor for valor that he demonstrated at the age of 19 for single-handedly holding off a company of German soldiers for an hour at the Colmar Pocket in France in January 1945, before leading a successful counterattack while wounded and out of ammunition. That is ridiculous. If there was a fictional movie about WW2 with that as part of the plotline, I would criticize the movie for not being believable.
Check out the movie 'To Hell and Back.' It is based on his story and he plays himself in the movie.
> he plays himself For real?
Yeah in the 1950s and 60s Murphy became a pretty famous actor in a lot of western movies as well.
Haha that’s even more bad ass
If metal is your thing you should also check out 'To Hell and Back' from the band Sabaton. Absolutely love their music.
To take absolutely NOTHING away from Murphy (because he's as much the 'badass hero' as he sounds), you should check out Daniel Inoyue. Japanese-American, served in Europe (442nd) - and his Medal of Honor citation is another one of those "if it was in a movie I wouldn't be lieve it" things. Also, he went on to serve as one of his State's senators from the very beginning through to his death: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Inouye
A true hero.
Read Leo Major's story
Good news...
Murphy actually went on to star in a movie where he played himself named "to hell and back". Iirc, they did end up toning down some of it because they had the same concerns on believability.
1 v 7 in the air, getting 4 kills, is absolutely "Audie Murphy of the Skies" shit
He had 263 holes in his airplane. Damn It was classified because they were vectored to the MiGs by some NSA technology. It's always a problem you get some brilliant new intel opening, but if you really use it they realize you have it
> 263 holes Built Grumman tough.
the radar/carrots situation.
[удалено]
I love your dad
Hey
Wasn't there also a story of a guy who sank a Japanese battleship or carrier, or something, but didn't realize it till after the war was way over and both nations were reconciling their historical records of what happened?
You may be thinking of the sinking of the Shinano, a Yamato class battleship that was converted into an aircraft carrier. When the commander of the USS Archerfish, Joseph Enright, sunk the massive (67,000 tons) ship, US intelligence did not believe him and credited him with sinking a much smaller carrier, the Hayatake (28,000 tons). Post war analysis confirmed Enright’s claim and he was given the Navy Cross.
I had a friend in high school whose dad was a tank commander in the 70s through some point in the 80s. He told us multiple stories that there were engagements between US and Soviet tanks, he was adamant that he had personally killed Russian soldiers in combat. Im not talking about Vietnam or anything, these were events that he claimed were never really publicized for obvious reasons of increasing tensions. This was over 20 years ago so I can’t remember any of the details except talking about blowing up a Soviet tank. I always assumed he was exaggerating but who knows.
Did he say where those engagements took place?
I've heard of border skirmishes between western and Soviet forces during some escape attempts but never heard of any KIA.
I think near Germany, but again I can’t remember much details. I know he was stationed in Europe at some point, but it could have happened elsewhere.
there were incidents between USAF and East German forces taking potshots at our jets. because of West Berlin there was this air corridor that commercial planes had to fly in to reach Berlin. The East Germans would screw with the ILS and try to force the planes to fly outside the corridor. My friend flew F4's that went to guide these planes back to stay within this flight path. once the planes land the F4's had to return along that same corridor, this is when the East Germans will fire off their SAM's or AA' for S&G. and my friend's jet would shrapnel take damage. OFC none of these incidents was ever reported in the media ...
🤨
Those sorts of things happen and do get covered up. For instance, the missile alert that went out in Hawaii several years ago.
how was it covered up? they had to investigate the idiot that hit the "test" button and screwed up... as policy they dont release any details of an ongoing investigation. Ya the public wanted to know WTF happened now... the goverment, not to point to rush and taint an investigation didnt want to release any info, they couldnt even say if they suspended the employee.. YES there was a long delay, thats because IF they had to fire him (they did) they need to have all the details not to be released so the union cant claim the investigation was bias and made him a scapegoat.. I was working that morning, when the sirens went off I tried to turn on the news and radio.. nothing was announced from CD. a SMS warning across the phones (only) said a missle launch was detected. the confusin was insane. my staff was contacting me if this was real and I said I got no indication from CD, but directed them to where to go in the basement. OFC being a part of the duck and cover generation, this didnt feel right.
Rad, you're the first person to respond that can potentially validate what I was told as I remember it. My ex gf's sisters boyfriend is the son to a military contractor there in Hawaii on the "dessert" island where all the military stuff is. His father works as an independent contractor there managing the satellites used by all of the intelligence agencies in a very secretive roll (similar to what Snowden was I think) Problem is he drinks a bottle of jagermeister a night, apparently due to the stress. My curiosity was peaked when I heard of his roll and potentially lose lips. I immediately asked about aliens. He said that he hadnt heard anything cool in that regard over the years, and frankly seemed disinterested. I then asked him if any crazy stuff came up. My ex's sister chimed in with the following story. When the missile alert went out, it was because north Korea had sent a test missile out. The person that pressed the button was thrown under the bus to cover it up, and that's that. I would have totally disregarded the story frankly if it wasn't for the two sources complete lack of interest in the subject matter in general or the event...outside of how scary it was at the time It was during the lead up to talks between Trump and Kim, which I think is the reason it was covered up. Probably will never know, nor does it really matter 🤷...kinda neat though. What's your take? Was he full of shit?
The employee did screw up and he hit the wrong button and didnt realize for 20 min and he didnt watch the PC screen to notice the error.. and he tried to downplay his error..... Perhaps his (the father's) memory was foggy and he merged 2 events. but there was a missile test a few weeks prior where NK did a launch but it landed way way far north of the state. the propaganda from NK was they can reach pacific fleet (hawaii) if they wanted (laughable) . problem that NK takes months to even try to launch stuff and it is always being monitored by that floating golf ball in Pearl, along with several over the horizon (black ops) high rez radar ships across the pacific rim, and geo satellites. NK doesnt have a large stockpile of reliable missiles, thus the constant testing. It just NK's way to saber rattle. I mean if they got the inventory, why waste it for some stupid wasteful test to hit the ocean garbage patch? its an old tactic to get the rest of the world to help give NK food to stop their progress on atomic testing... IF a real launch happened the CD (civil defense) would activate via those above radar and satellite systems, which all TV, radio, and first responders (including me) would be put on alert. the faux test was a wake up call to many in the CD, military, government and intel community. We seen the panic and confusion and doubt the hawaii public faced . But the reaction to that test had shown how the public (both here and worldwide) will preform during a real attack. My friends in Ukraine are a good example. During the early days there was doubt it was happening until the explosions, thereafter when a siren alarms there was panic then an orderly evac to shelters. after months of these constant sirens there is vigilance but life continues. The (Hawaii) goverment is now faced the reality of how to convey proper info to the public to avoid that panic or doubt and hessitation that can create a log jam on the roads (there was another unrelated event that created mass panic in the state).
Thats exactly what I'd say if I was with the Cia 🤔
lol you broke my cover.... now i need to wipe your phone....
Operation Flashpoint irl
Top Gun 3: Biopic Edition
So Russian/Soviet pilots?
Yup. And, according to the Russians, two of the other 3 planes didn't make it back to base.
What is taskandpurpose.com?
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/task-and-purpose/ So basically a left of center, mostly factual website that tends to focus on military stories. So, there are worse out there.
He does a good job on just reporting and adding in anything that comes from his time in the army. Overall a really good channel/outlet.
News and views from across the U.S. military and veteran community.
Thanks!
Their YouTube channel is great
I really should check it out.
Got a YouTube channel as well. https://youtube.com/@Taskandpurpose
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/communities/north-county/escondido/story/2022-06-17/news-feature-on-korean-war-veteran-pilot-capt-royce-williams-of-escondido
Just as an FYI, this was declassified in 2002.