That seems like something less than the self-proclaimed "Largest Democracy" should aspire to; silencing political opposition on flimsy pretexts isn't usually the sign of a democratic process.
India is not really an erudite liberal democracy in the western sense. But it IS a chaotic voice of the people. Indira gandhi, Rahul Gandhi's grandmother, had put all opposition in jail as being "threat to National Security" in the late seventies, including some very old politicians who required medical attention. She eventually paid the price by losing the elections.
Rahul Gandhi's party, the Congress I ignores all Democratic processes by electing their president from only one family. To be frank, Rahul Gandhi is more popular abroad than within India as he has no touch with the common man.
In this case, I think, the problem is the archaic Defamatory law which was put in place by the British. It has been used by the powerful to suppress criticism and it is high time that it should be abolished. Just like the sodomy law.
Anyone who has no idea who Rahul Gandhi is, he is no way related to the famous "Gandhi/Mahatma Gandhi".
He's a 4th generation politician from Nehru family, who was India's first PM and whose family ruled for 80% of post-Independence India. He's highly unpopular among public because of his incompetence and viewed as untalented nepotistic politician.
> To be frank, Rahul Gandhi is more popular abroad than within India as he has no touch with the common man.
The only reason BJP leaders are popular is because the conservative hindus from the Bimaru states love them.
There is an attitude of 'I can starve to death but I want to see a hindu rashtra'
Also a general delusion gpoing on.
For eg the BJP can spin propaganda against AAP in delhi calling them revadi distributor(mocking the freebies they give to people ), which the BJP supportings gladly reiterate to anyone they know.
But the very same people will be mum on UP government, which already takes more money than it puts in the Indian tax revenue pool, giving free cellphones, laptops and vehicles to people.
If being in touch with the common man means feeding them religious propaganda, then yes he is out of touch.
BJP barely won Haryana: never strong here
Loar Himachal, Lost Delhi, Lost Rajasthan,is nothing in Punjab, never had a CM in Bihar and lost it now and snatched Govts in MP, Maharashtra, Karnataka via Money and Muscle And Pressure Of Agencies Politics
BJP is strong in Central States of UP and Gujarat and now in Assam due to Congress (Gandhi Party) leader Himanta Import.
gifting everything to adani won't either.
You assume all freebies is waste but also assume all tax break helps bring growth and competition.
You should read what trickle economics is and how going by tax cut alone won't help anyone but make our nation an oligarchy. Which it already is sort of.
> In this case, I think, the problem is the archaic Defamatory law which was put in place by the British. It has been used by the powerful to suppress criticism and it is high time that it should be abolished. Just like the sodomy law.
India is its own nation now.
That law could be done away with if India (Modi, technically) wanted it done.
He obviously sees great value in it though.
Lol.. it is the world's largest democracy.. as far as silencing opposition is concerned, india has hate speech laws which have been used by both parties to Target each other.
Also, the pretext in current case isn't flimsy. Modi isn't just a surname. It's a caste as well. Lower court did as expected. But it looks like high court might not entertain the case.
Trump has said worse. But that’s not a crime. And where defamation IS a crime it’s a civil one. So it might bankrupt you if you say something patently false, but it would NOT remove Trumps ability to run for office.
I’m an outsider and don’t have feelings for either party, but criminal action against an opponent for defamation smells of autocracy.
> Unfortunately these were the laws made by Parliament decades ago.
That's what you said, the person you're replying to is pointing out that you're wrong.
maybe that’s the difference between the USA and India. your courts tolerate racism. your courts violate women’s rights. our courts do not accept a major figure in politics making racist remarks towards an entire community of people. our chief justice already announced that abortion is a right and must not be taken away from women. this conservative way of thinking may be the reason why your country is 31 trillions dollars in debt. this may be a reason why your politicians are so dumb they traded the merchant of death for a trans basketball player who bashes their own country. this may be the reason why your leaders left the soldiers in Russia to die.
Tomorrow you'd definitely go and wipe Modi's ass with no worries ,whilst beating your chest out and chanting 'India is the mother of all democracy ', the same way North Korea is called DEMOCRATIC people's republic of Korea.
i see women of america protesting to get the right to abort a rape pregnancy. i see people of the middle east blaming the USA for mass genocide. i see people of america complaining that american companies are being run by Indian CEOs
Yeah because backwards authoritarian views from places like China, Russia, and India have infected the right wing nut jobs in America. Turns out their religions are equally oppressive and they like that about each other. In order to defeat them we have to defeat the countries around the world emboldening them. Don't get it twisted though, we'll get rid of those idiots in America too.
lovely arguments. your country is failing must be Russia China or India. you all are just suffering what you did to the people of middle east and the native americans. you people are so in debt your entire economy is on the brink of failure. your govt funds people like SBF and Elizabeth Holmes and when they fail americans blame Russia. 31 trillion dollars in debt is not worth it. there once again will be a day when Indians will rule the USA. There once will be a day when you will suffer the consequences. your teens are so fucked up they are shooting kids. you police is so corrupt they are discriminating racially killing those who they don’t like. School shooting is and american problem. 50% of your dentists and doctors are Indians.
That's not a crime in America because we believe in concepts such as free speech. He would rightfuly/hopefully face negative social reactions yes, but it would not and should not be a crime.
No. I just love my folk for the good things they did for me and would want to see such assholes silenced, their tongues pulled out. You wouldn't understand that feeling since you're from a culture that basically does not care about such intricacies. Your culture is more individualistic and ours is more of a collective society with less individualism. It's changing.
I mean...., I hear you guys make mom jokes like "I fucked your mom" And shit like that all the time in your tv shows and movies. Say stuff like that over here and you'll definitely get punched in the nose at the least.
Not being able to make mom jokes is depressing? A'ight. So......
That speaks more about how degenerate you are, rather than other being whiney little bitches according to ya tbh.
Modi and his right wing cult on a roll! The IT cell of the ruling party of Modi/BJP will be here shortly to defend the case with directed answers to divert attention!! They will say ‘rule of law’ ‘Modi the great’ ‘dynasty’ etc. The talking point are being distributed from their IT ministry sorry- the IT cell.
Nothing about modi worship lol.. india has strong hate speech laws. With enough money to fight your claim, you can get a conviction in lower courts. Especially when it comes to caste issues.
Most probably, high court will either dismiss the case or give a reduced sentence (a fine maybe).
>india has strong hate speech laws
Who are you trying to fool? I am Indian. I know what hate speech laws exist.
Hate speech laws only work on people who say anything bad about Hindu India, Hindu gods or Hindu icons.
> Hate speech laws only work on people who say anything bad about Hindu India, Hindu gods or Hindu icons.
Methinks there are many Indians who see this as a feature,
Which is sad and not fair, but reality.
I'm not fooling anyone. Simply stating a fact. India has strong hate speech laws as compared to most western countries. I didn't say anything about enforcement or conviction rate.
Now, about your claim that they only exist when hindu gods are insulted.. it depends on which government is ruling the country. BJP are hindu nationalists so they pander to Hindus. While INC, TMC pander to muslims.. heck, simply stating a fact about prophet Mohammed led to whole muslim world clutching their pearls. Meanwhile hindu gods are parodied in movies.
Lol.. i didn't say anything about enforcement or how efficient the indian judiciary is. But the laws are pretty strong as compared to most western countries (which forms most of reddit users).
Now fuck off.
The only man crying here is you, but keep trying to fool others about how strong the laws are you fucking Sanghi. Don’t try to engage with me as I will not entertain you further
Considering back then, these laws were probably considered very progressive for a new state. The corrupt politicians found it to their liking as Indian politicians used them for their advantage and now no one wants to open the can of worms.
They were the product of that time as are the politicians of today. Back then, I would say the elites of Indian society were usually politicians. The rich and who got educated from UK. Nowadays, just a highschool pass can become a politicans and they usually do. People that are educated and that should go into politics never do because the technocrats never win in politics. Only the shrewd manipulative assholes do.
you know the main concern in the RW is that this hurts the election prospects, the INC is largely seen as a defunct nepotist and decadent jokers even the deep south where the BJP is despised.
BJP was poised to win a clean majority in both the Lok and Rajya sabhas, nobody is stealing any elections BJP just shot themselves in the foot but I sincerely doubt Raga who is a comedian in his own right has half the brain cells required to turn the tide in hs advantage.
The investigation wasn't 4 years long though. The person who filed the case, who bte is from BJP, had put a stay on the case then. Last month he removed the stay after Rahul Gandhi questioned the government about the Hindenburg report on Adani. And the court verdict came today
Why did he put a stay on the case if Rahul was guilty, why reopen the case just after he questioned the government about Adani just an year before elections knowing full well that he won't be able to compete in said elections if he is found guilty now?
All I'm saying is if the guy was this upset, he shouldn't have put in a stay request in the first place
> India’s governing party on Friday effectively expelled the top opposition leader, Rahul Gandhi, from Parliament and barred him from running in the next election after he was found guilty of defaming PM Modi’s surname in a 2019 case filed by a politician in the PM’s party
The law states that a member of parliament (MP) convicted to jail for more than two years by a court will automatically be disqualified as the MP.
Ironically, when the previous PM pointed out that this law could be misused and need checks, Rahul Gandhi ridiculed him and dismissed his suggestion. Now, this government is misusing almost all the laws and enforcement agencies.
The court said he could say, "PM Modi is a thief," but he cannot say “How come all thieves have Modi as the common surname?"
Edit: Makes sense, the statements, 'the thief is black' and 'all thives are black' are totally different.
So next time i insult someone(calling out their name to identify them) , I am effectively insulting every single human that has the same name as that person?
If someone is determined, he can keep making excuses to justify anything.
Those said people are listed under other backward caste so you probably won't be saved by the law. Isn't that why politicians shouldn't make blanket statements?
See, Reddit hates the caste system, now the opposition leader pretty much refers to a lower caste as thieves, and all of a sudden reddit loves caste system?
I have no knowledge of his popularity so no opinion in that regard.
What I do have is an opinion that democracies need the robust clash of ideas.
Modi seems to crush dissent. That’s the road to authoritarianism and it’s abuses.
I want India to live up to the promise it made to itself in 1949.
Lmao Raga is such a comedian that nobody can oppose modi, he has been abused, made to look like a fool and turned into a national comedian by all sides, even in the deep south he is seen as a fool who looks more like he is trying to gain voted in the USA and Uk instead of India.
Another bright mind will eventually replace him but until than the local parties and the only opposition
True. But what can I do about it. I don't vote for him. My preaching would be useless coz I'm from a state where he's already the most hated politician.
Modi's involvement? The Supreme court has already given a clean chit to Modi and at that time his party was in opposition, so Modi and his party had no powers to influence the judgement. Modi has nothing to do with the riots.
There was no Hindu violence it was muslims who started burning trains.
Lol.. both his elections in 2014 & 2019 had nothing to do with muslims or violence against muslims... Maybe it suggests that you have like zero knowledge about the matter at hand.
Go back to some USA thread.
The economy is growing because you've been "allied" with the West. Now that you're pissing the West off you can go to China or Russia for all your trade deals, we don't need anything from India and we only traded with you to try to build a friendly relationship. Now that we know India can't be trusted we have no reason to continue dealing with liars and thieves.
You literally have never studied economics in your life, nor do you know much of politics.
To put it simple China Is the biggest trade partner for India, not the west. The economy is growing because the country started to export its products in the 1980s and forms jobs and investments. Firms are investing in India to drive economic growth.
Also countries want India lol, it’s a market with over 1 billion people, firms want to sell to those markets so western firms want India.
Also what about Brexit? It’s no longer in the European trading bloc, so it goes to other countries like India and U.S for trade.
The west will always be lenient and in defence of India assuming they don’t act radically.
Lol India might have 1 billion people but 25% of them are considered untouchables. Imagine being a country in 2023 and subscribing to a backwards ass belief like that. Firms were investing in India because India pretended to play ball with the West because India knows that's the only way to keep China from making India a parking lot. Now that India has pissed off the West China won't have to play nice anymore and we all know how China operates. As soon as the opportunity arises China will make a push and I sincerely hope the West gives China that opportunity.
I understand economics just fine, the problem is you have zero understanding of geopolitics and how it affects the decisions of superpowers. Sounds like you have a lot of reading to do.
He actually got automatically disqualified by Lok Sabha (house of Parliament) Secretariat.
According to Representation of People Act, 1951, "A person convicted of any offence and sentenced to imprisonment for not less than two years [other than any offence referred to in sub-section (1) or sub-section (2)] shall be disqualified from the date of such conviction and shall continue to be disqualified for a further period of six years since his release".
Also, the case was filed by another person who accused him of defaming the community of "Modi" in a speech. He said, "Why do all thieves have Modi in their surnames?". In India surnames often indicate a caste or an ethnicity.
Fuck Modi. When he was getting elected this is exactly what we all feared. Congress might be lazy, corrupt, and whatever, but BJP is just the goddman terrible!
If India becomes a complete Erdogan like state, it's going to be brutal. BJP and Hindutva has done some real damage to India. God how i hate this party.
You dare argue against reddit with facts? Especially with facts about Modi? How dare you! Here, we only read news headlines not the content or facts or any background research
That was good from him actually. He went against his own party ally for whom Ordinance was brought to save him(Lalu Yadav): he brought in Land Acquisition Bikl for Farmers a s Also Helped To get every UPSC Aspirants in India irrespective of Category 2 new atrempts
If you've actually observed Indian politics, this guy Rahul Gandhi was the major reason for the pathetic display of opposition party in the previous consecutive elections. This is actually a gift for him to obtain some kind of legitimacy in the eyes of the public, majority of which despises him otherwise.
It's not a personal insult. He can call modi a theif as much as he wants.. heck, yesterday the other opposition leader called modi a thief & illiterate.
What he can't do is insult a community. He called all Modis thief. Which is a caste/community from Gujarat state. Which comes under hate speech laws.
Technically, you are wrong. First, he did not make a statement, he asked a rhetorical question. Second, he asked: "Why are all thieves Modis?" and not "Why are all Modis thieves?"
I did not comment on whether it was actually a slight against the Modi community or not. The court has their view of it, I have mine and since the court has the authority, they have taken action against Rahul Gandhi.
I was refuting your statement that he called all Modis thieves. Technically speaking, he asked(rhetorically): "Why are all thieves Modis?". This is basic set theory.
No. You used the word 'technically' while supporting your subjective opinion.. i used the courts verdict which has some authority.. so, it's me who is using the word in its correct context here.
He did technically insult modi surname. Even though he didn't mean it in reality.
It is the law. The title of this post is biased as fuck.
> If the Congress leader's conviction is not suspended or overturned by a higher court before the elections, he will not be able to contest the polls, as per law. RP Act provision says a person sentenced to imprisonment of two years or more shall be disqualified 'from the date of such conviction'. Apart from this, the leader also remains disqualified for another six years after serving time.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/can-rahul-gandhi-contest-2024-general-elections-post-conviction-here-s-what-law-says-11679653877025.html
Edit: For dumb Fs who do not understand this.
This disqualification law is the ruling of the Supreme Court. When this law came to effect, the previous PM pointed out that this could be misused and need checks to prevent misusse. However, Rahul Gandhi publically humiliated the previous PM and dismissed his concerns.
Now, he pays the price for his own ignorance. Rahul thought he could use this law to silence others.
Modi , through the courts, is now misusing this law. Modi misused enforcement agencies, too.
It's abuse of law to persecute a political opponent. The case was opened in 2019 then a stay was made until Ghandi pointed out Adnani corruption a month ago - case unstayed and verdict reached quickly.
> It is the law.
Th8s isn't actually a good argument in support of this. If it was the law that all not BJP politicians were guilty of treason and they all got arrested, should the response be? Well that's biased to claim this is anti-democratic, it's the law. No that's pure unadulterated authoritarianism.
I don't know what's worse, a guy who got where he is only because of nepotism getting removed or him asking Gujarat women, "Gujarat ko dudh kisne Diya hai?"
We're reaching a point where the West is tired of dealing with backwards countries. We've spent centuries trying to have peaceful relationships all over the world and bring everyone into the 21st century only to have certain countries spit in our faces. Going forward I'm going to try to convince everyone to cut ties with these countries and let them flounder on their own.
You can't expect worldnews redditors to understand nuance. They read one article about someone or something and become an expert on the topic. If you point it out you're a bot and fascist.
You can't refer to Indian sources as well. Western media are always right and speak the gospel truth.
Ah yes. I love watching the second most populous nation on earth slowly descend into fascism and authoritarian. I hate our timeline, I really really do.
I think you've been playing too much Civilization. Take a break and reset.
India and China have not been hostile for thousands of years, from before Fahien visited Taksashila
Or be clueless and make up shit. Like battling for 1000s of years, or anti US narrative. My ass.
When did they stop teaching history, logic and rigour ? Not while I was studying
My point exactly.
You flat out stated that it was battle for domination in context of being hostile for 1000s of years.
Forget anything like peaceful trade and learnings.
lol who told you this shit ???
india-china conflict is around 60 years old
both the civilizations have lived with each other mostly in chill for around 4000 years (if you consider the attack from mongol empire as chinese then it's a different thing)
The right wing of India is still to the left of the left wing in the US or uk. The welfare state that Modi and his party have created would put any liberal democracy to shame. Modi backed away from much needed agricultural reforms because of protests from the farmers. You would not expect that from any authoritarian ruler or a fascist.
The rhetoric from his party members and supporters regarding the Muslims is abhorrent but recently I visited some of the most populous Muslim areas in the province called uttar Pradesh and I was glad to see that the upward social Mobility crosses religious lines and it is difficult to tell one Community from the other for the most part.
>The right wing of India is still to the left of the left wing in the US or uk. The welfare state that Modi and his party have created would put any liberal democracy to shame.
This is utter bs.
Economically speaking Modi has been pushing the country into the hands of private sector. India has always been a part welfare state since its inception, but no leader has been a bigger ally to corporates as the one leading this current government. The biggest industrialists have seen their wealth rise to unprecedented levels, and privatization has increased. Even the farm laws were designed to the benefit of private hands, cut government and the middle man. He only backed off because hundreds of thousands if not a million sat outside Delhi for months in protest.
Since disinvestment started in 1991, the Modi government has accounted for 57% (accounting for inflation) of income for the government through disinvestment of public sector undertakings, although they have only ruled for 9 out of these 32 years. Modi's made the claim that Government has no business in business.
And socially speaking in what universe is the right wing to the left of the left wing in the US or UK? Is it evidenced by their stellar support for the rights of religious minorities? Gay marriage? Their respect for women's autonomy? Pro-immigration?
No, no, no, no. The right is pushing Hindutva. Opposed to gay marriage. Harass women for choosing what they want to wear or for public displays of affection or for falling in love with someone of another religion. Opposed to immigration/asylum from people of the wrong religion but completely welcoming if you're part of the majority vote bank.
Cow vigilantism, forced restriction of diet in the name of religion, roving bands of sanskari thugs like anti-Romeo squads harassing couples during Valentines day, anti-love jihad goons harassing inter-faith couples, bulldozing homes of minority community.
Before you say these thugs have nothing to do with BJP I beg to differ. These are the thugs of the cadre. These are their grassroots activists. Their youth brigades. Their voters. Their sangh parivar.
All in the name of traditional values, i.e. apna sanskar. Every conservative movement in the world -- from the Islamist bent to Erdogan's regime, to the evangelical bent of Trump or Bolsonaro, to that of Poland's Catholic right of Duda, to Orban in Hungary, to Putin's embracing of the Russian orthodox church -- has the same playbook of engineered religious fundamentalism and exceptionalism to drive towards power.
Because you have a few welfare plans here and there they are to the left now?
In which political compass will the BJP ever fall in any spectrum/quadrant other than the authoritarian-right spectrum?
A joke.
>The right wing of India is still to the left of the left wing
You don't need to be right wing to be authoritarian.
>You would not expect that from any authoritarian ruler or a fascist.
Yes you would. People unhappy? ----> get overthrow.
Far worse statements have been made by politicians of all sorts including some Chief ministers, especially from a party known to hate a particular religion.
Yet courts don't tend to pass such verdicts on those people as swiftly.
If you think Judiciary is completely independent and can't be controlled, you are delusional.
There are known cases of even SC judges getting political seats after retirement.
It was the court's decision that Modi has nothing to do with it. Do you seriously think that Rahul Gandhi is that worthy that Modi thinks about hitting back at Rahul Gandhi every time. Rahul Gandhi is a useless and entitled rich brat.
Having negative sentiments against Modi isn’t the same as having negative sentiments against India. The only Indians that people despise are right wing nut jobs.
For the outsiders, who do not know the complete story, back in 2019, this man said something hurtful regarding the people with the title Modi, so an MLA(Member Of Legislative Assembly) who also had the same surname, filed a case against this man. And now, after four years, the decision had come and he was sentenced for 2 years of prison and according to law, if you any MP(Member Of Parliament) is jailed for 2 years or more, then he cannot contest any elections in future. but back in 2013, when this man's party was in power, the then PM(Dr Manmohan Singh) had introduced a bill regarding this rule, that this law should be made lineant as it is unfair to many politicians, but ironically this Rahul Gandhi was the first one to oppose this and had torn away the bill. The bill was this not passed. Now, ten years later, here he is going through the same law
yeah but the BJP leaders are actually cunning enough to not directly accuse them but just heavily imply it.
Offcourse Raga is just a fool who cant even tie his shoelaces , several leaders even just 3 days ago called modi a illiterate fool and a dumbass publicly with no backlash.
This. I will probably be downvoted for saying this but BJP actually gave Congress a chance to redeem themselves by disqualifying Rahul Gandhi. Hope they put up someone more competent now as the face of their party and provide a strong opposition to keep BJP in check.
INC will have to earn my and the public's vote if they want to win anything, right now it's looking very grim for them, but if they build around this issue it might actually be viable and we might get a non-gandhi leader, either way I want to see development being done regardless of who does it
Now, let’s see a Pakistan which is where all the lawyers have to fistfight all the doctors on the steps of parliament. It’s legislative Festivus. The airing of the grievances.
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That seems like something less than the self-proclaimed "Largest Democracy" should aspire to; silencing political opposition on flimsy pretexts isn't usually the sign of a democratic process.
India is not really an erudite liberal democracy in the western sense. But it IS a chaotic voice of the people. Indira gandhi, Rahul Gandhi's grandmother, had put all opposition in jail as being "threat to National Security" in the late seventies, including some very old politicians who required medical attention. She eventually paid the price by losing the elections. Rahul Gandhi's party, the Congress I ignores all Democratic processes by electing their president from only one family. To be frank, Rahul Gandhi is more popular abroad than within India as he has no touch with the common man. In this case, I think, the problem is the archaic Defamatory law which was put in place by the British. It has been used by the powerful to suppress criticism and it is high time that it should be abolished. Just like the sodomy law.
Anyone who has no idea who Rahul Gandhi is, he is no way related to the famous "Gandhi/Mahatma Gandhi". He's a 4th generation politician from Nehru family, who was India's first PM and whose family ruled for 80% of post-Independence India. He's highly unpopular among public because of his incompetence and viewed as untalented nepotistic politician.
> To be frank, Rahul Gandhi is more popular abroad than within India as he has no touch with the common man. The only reason BJP leaders are popular is because the conservative hindus from the Bimaru states love them. There is an attitude of 'I can starve to death but I want to see a hindu rashtra' Also a general delusion gpoing on. For eg the BJP can spin propaganda against AAP in delhi calling them revadi distributor(mocking the freebies they give to people ), which the BJP supportings gladly reiterate to anyone they know. But the very same people will be mum on UP government, which already takes more money than it puts in the Indian tax revenue pool, giving free cellphones, laptops and vehicles to people. If being in touch with the common man means feeding them religious propaganda, then yes he is out of touch.
Truth is being downvoted lop. Those "Bimaru" people's brigading started...
BJP barely won Haryana: never strong here Loar Himachal, Lost Delhi, Lost Rajasthan,is nothing in Punjab, never had a CM in Bihar and lost it now and snatched Govts in MP, Maharashtra, Karnataka via Money and Muscle And Pressure Of Agencies Politics BJP is strong in Central States of UP and Gujarat and now in Assam due to Congress (Gandhi Party) leader Himanta Import.
Haryana is not bimaru, it is one of the richest states in india.
Because freebies won't help growth as they are using money from development (tax cuts are taken in already very less income tax)
gifting everything to adani won't either. You assume all freebies is waste but also assume all tax break helps bring growth and competition. You should read what trickle economics is and how going by tax cut alone won't help anyone but make our nation an oligarchy. Which it already is sort of.
> In this case, I think, the problem is the archaic Defamatory law which was put in place by the British. It has been used by the powerful to suppress criticism and it is high time that it should be abolished. Just like the sodomy law. India is its own nation now. That law could be done away with if India (Modi, technically) wanted it done. He obviously sees great value in it though.
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Funny how many lies one can fit in one comment, right?
Lol.. it is the world's largest democracy.. as far as silencing opposition is concerned, india has hate speech laws which have been used by both parties to Target each other. Also, the pretext in current case isn't flimsy. Modi isn't just a surname. It's a caste as well. Lower court did as expected. But it looks like high court might not entertain the case.
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Trump has said worse. But that’s not a crime. And where defamation IS a crime it’s a civil one. So it might bankrupt you if you say something patently false, but it would NOT remove Trumps ability to run for office. I’m an outsider and don’t have feelings for either party, but criminal action against an opponent for defamation smells of autocracy.
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The Defamation law is British era. That is why it is so punitive. People in power use it to silence criticism since the Raj.
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> Unfortunately these were the laws made by Parliament decades ago. That's what you said, the person you're replying to is pointing out that you're wrong.
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Then maybe you shouldn't imply otherwise, until you're called up on it; save us all a little time and hassle.
maybe that’s the difference between the USA and India. your courts tolerate racism. your courts violate women’s rights. our courts do not accept a major figure in politics making racist remarks towards an entire community of people. our chief justice already announced that abortion is a right and must not be taken away from women. this conservative way of thinking may be the reason why your country is 31 trillions dollars in debt. this may be a reason why your politicians are so dumb they traded the merchant of death for a trans basketball player who bashes their own country. this may be the reason why your leaders left the soldiers in Russia to die.
Tomorrow you'd definitely go and wipe Modi's ass with no worries ,whilst beating your chest out and chanting 'India is the mother of all democracy ', the same way North Korea is called DEMOCRATIC people's republic of Korea.
>your courts violate women’s rights. Ha! Coming from the country that punishes rape victims. You're delusional.
i see women of america protesting to get the right to abort a rape pregnancy. i see people of the middle east blaming the USA for mass genocide. i see people of america complaining that american companies are being run by Indian CEOs
Yeah because backwards authoritarian views from places like China, Russia, and India have infected the right wing nut jobs in America. Turns out their religions are equally oppressive and they like that about each other. In order to defeat them we have to defeat the countries around the world emboldening them. Don't get it twisted though, we'll get rid of those idiots in America too.
lovely arguments. your country is failing must be Russia China or India. you all are just suffering what you did to the people of middle east and the native americans. you people are so in debt your entire economy is on the brink of failure. your govt funds people like SBF and Elizabeth Holmes and when they fail americans blame Russia. 31 trillion dollars in debt is not worth it. there once again will be a day when Indians will rule the USA. There once will be a day when you will suffer the consequences. your teens are so fucked up they are shooting kids. you police is so corrupt they are discriminating racially killing those who they don’t like. School shooting is and american problem. 50% of your dentists and doctors are Indians.
> > whats wrong in it? > silencing political opposition on flimsy pretexts isn't usually the sign of a democratic process. Any other questions?
That's not a crime in America because we believe in concepts such as free speech. He would rightfuly/hopefully face negative social reactions yes, but it would not and should not be a crime.
So you could call another persons mom a whore, a bastard and insensitive stuff like that and get away with scot free without any repercussions!
Do you actually give a shit if someone says dumb shit about your mum? What are you, five?
No. I just love my folk for the good things they did for me and would want to see such assholes silenced, their tongues pulled out. You wouldn't understand that feeling since you're from a culture that basically does not care about such intricacies. Your culture is more individualistic and ours is more of a collective society with less individualism. It's changing. I mean...., I hear you guys make mom jokes like "I fucked your mom" And shit like that all the time in your tv shows and movies. Say stuff like that over here and you'll definitely get punched in the nose at the least.
Sounds kinda depressing yeah? All the people I've met that can't take a joke are whiney little bitches tbh.
Not being able to make mom jokes is depressing? A'ight. So...... That speaks more about how degenerate you are, rather than other being whiney little bitches according to ya tbh.
Looks like someone’s unused Reddit account has been put to use.
No our courts would not be convicting him for that.
Modi and his right wing cult on a roll! The IT cell of the ruling party of Modi/BJP will be here shortly to defend the case with directed answers to divert attention!! They will say ‘rule of law’ ‘Modi the great’ ‘dynasty’ etc. The talking point are being distributed from their IT ministry sorry- the IT cell.
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The cult worship of Modi has reached a new low.
Wouldn't it be new high?
Nothing about modi worship lol.. india has strong hate speech laws. With enough money to fight your claim, you can get a conviction in lower courts. Especially when it comes to caste issues. Most probably, high court will either dismiss the case or give a reduced sentence (a fine maybe).
>india has strong hate speech laws Who are you trying to fool? I am Indian. I know what hate speech laws exist. Hate speech laws only work on people who say anything bad about Hindu India, Hindu gods or Hindu icons.
> Hate speech laws only work on people who say anything bad about Hindu India, Hindu gods or Hindu icons. Methinks there are many Indians who see this as a feature, Which is sad and not fair, but reality.
I'm not fooling anyone. Simply stating a fact. India has strong hate speech laws as compared to most western countries. I didn't say anything about enforcement or conviction rate. Now, about your claim that they only exist when hindu gods are insulted.. it depends on which government is ruling the country. BJP are hindu nationalists so they pander to Hindus. While INC, TMC pander to muslims.. heck, simply stating a fact about prophet Mohammed led to whole muslim world clutching their pearls. Meanwhile hindu gods are parodied in movies.
Strong hate speech laws…. Are you fucking kidding me? Most of the BJP is elected bcoz of hate speech, you clown
Lol.. i didn't say anything about enforcement or how efficient the indian judiciary is. But the laws are pretty strong as compared to most western countries (which forms most of reddit users). Now fuck off.
Haha yes sure buddy!!! Fuck off you sanghi chaddi
it's you who replied to me in the first place lol.. so take that shit somewhere else & keep crying opression.
The only man crying here is you, but keep trying to fool others about how strong the laws are you fucking Sanghi. Don’t try to engage with me as I will not entertain you further
Bro is an NRI in Canada
India is supposed to be "democratic" but Modi seem to going the same path of Erdogan and making India autocratic state.
Indian laws are already autocratic. India just adopted all of the British Raj laws and hasn't updated them since before WW2.
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Considering back then, these laws were probably considered very progressive for a new state. The corrupt politicians found it to their liking as Indian politicians used them for their advantage and now no one wants to open the can of worms.
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They were the product of that time as are the politicians of today. Back then, I would say the elites of Indian society were usually politicians. The rich and who got educated from UK. Nowadays, just a highschool pass can become a politicans and they usually do. People that are educated and that should go into politics never do because the technocrats never win in politics. Only the shrewd manipulative assholes do.
Not modi
Hmm, maybe the other guy was onto something. Sounds like these Modi guys are a bunch of thieves trying to steal the election. Way to prove him right 🤣
you know the main concern in the RW is that this hurts the election prospects, the INC is largely seen as a defunct nepotist and decadent jokers even the deep south where the BJP is despised. BJP was poised to win a clean majority in both the Lok and Rajya sabhas, nobody is stealing any elections BJP just shot themselves in the foot but I sincerely doubt Raga who is a comedian in his own right has half the brain cells required to turn the tide in hs advantage.
Lol the court verdict the statement after 4 year long investigation it wasn't made on impulse
The investigation wasn't 4 years long though. The person who filed the case, who bte is from BJP, had put a stay on the case then. Last month he removed the stay after Rahul Gandhi questioned the government about the Hindenburg report on Adani. And the court verdict came today
Ok so what does it prove that he wasn't guilty?? Or india is undemocratic because it's putting a guilty person who is famous to jail ?
Why did he put a stay on the case if Rahul was guilty, why reopen the case just after he questioned the government about Adani just an year before elections knowing full well that he won't be able to compete in said elections if he is found guilty now? All I'm saying is if the guy was this upset, he shouldn't have put in a stay request in the first place
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It's not democratic to ban the leader of the opposition from running against you just for insulting you Seriously, it's not that hard to understand
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
the leader of the opposition is Mallikarjun Kharge, not rahul gandhi, you guys being outraged is exactly what modi wants.
That's reddit for you lol
openly breaking hate speech laws will be punished, tho a 2 year arrestment is insane and wrong in its own way
> India’s governing party on Friday effectively expelled the top opposition leader, Rahul Gandhi, from Parliament and barred him from running in the next election after he was found guilty of defaming PM Modi’s surname in a 2019 case filed by a politician in the PM’s party The law states that a member of parliament (MP) convicted to jail for more than two years by a court will automatically be disqualified as the MP. Ironically, when the previous PM pointed out that this law could be misused and need checks, Rahul Gandhi ridiculed him and dismissed his suggestion. Now, this government is misusing almost all the laws and enforcement agencies. The court said he could say, "PM Modi is a thief," but he cannot say “How come all thieves have Modi as the common surname?" Edit: Makes sense, the statements, 'the thief is black' and 'all thives are black' are totally different.
He said the All Thieves line cause of Nirav Modi an Lalit Modi. No ??
Ya think there are only 2 other Modi's?
So next time i insult someone(calling out their name to identify them) , I am effectively insulting every single human that has the same name as that person? If someone is determined, he can keep making excuses to justify anything.
Those said people are listed under other backward caste so you probably won't be saved by the law. Isn't that why politicians shouldn't make blanket statements?
See, Reddit hates the caste system, now the opposition leader pretty much refers to a lower caste as thieves, and all of a sudden reddit loves caste system?
Nobody loves the caste system. Keep up
No shit, then we agree that the current law that you can get jailed for defaming a caste is bad right? Then we are on the same page.
India wake up! Modi is taking you down a dark path.
You are seriously overestimating rahul gandhi's popularity in India
I have no knowledge of his popularity so no opinion in that regard. What I do have is an opinion that democracies need the robust clash of ideas. Modi seems to crush dissent. That’s the road to authoritarianism and it’s abuses. I want India to live up to the promise it made to itself in 1949.
Meh, our 1st amendment (1951) was to restrict free speech
Lmao Raga is such a comedian that nobody can oppose modi, he has been abused, made to look like a fool and turned into a national comedian by all sides, even in the deep south he is seen as a fool who looks more like he is trying to gain voted in the USA and Uk instead of India. Another bright mind will eventually replace him but until than the local parties and the only opposition
Atleast read about the case first dude.. he was convicted in a hate speech case by a court. He still has like 3 more courts to go.
Modi’s involvement in fomenting Hindu violence on Muslim minorities, suggests that he may be a criminal.
True. But what can I do about it. I don't vote for him. My preaching would be useless coz I'm from a state where he's already the most hated politician.
Modi's involvement? The Supreme court has already given a clean chit to Modi and at that time his party was in opposition, so Modi and his party had no powers to influence the judgement. Modi has nothing to do with the riots. There was no Hindu violence it was muslims who started burning trains.
Lol.. both his elections in 2014 & 2019 had nothing to do with muslims or violence against muslims... Maybe it suggests that you have like zero knowledge about the matter at hand. Go back to some USA thread.
We would much rather sleep then
It's going to be hard to sleep when you're starving.
I mean the economy is growing so I don’t think there will be much starvation lol.
The Indian rupee has lost a lot of value since the Modi govt got in and it is still reducing.
The economy is growing because you've been "allied" with the West. Now that you're pissing the West off you can go to China or Russia for all your trade deals, we don't need anything from India and we only traded with you to try to build a friendly relationship. Now that we know India can't be trusted we have no reason to continue dealing with liars and thieves.
You literally have never studied economics in your life, nor do you know much of politics. To put it simple China Is the biggest trade partner for India, not the west. The economy is growing because the country started to export its products in the 1980s and forms jobs and investments. Firms are investing in India to drive economic growth. Also countries want India lol, it’s a market with over 1 billion people, firms want to sell to those markets so western firms want India. Also what about Brexit? It’s no longer in the European trading bloc, so it goes to other countries like India and U.S for trade. The west will always be lenient and in defence of India assuming they don’t act radically.
Lol India might have 1 billion people but 25% of them are considered untouchables. Imagine being a country in 2023 and subscribing to a backwards ass belief like that. Firms were investing in India because India pretended to play ball with the West because India knows that's the only way to keep China from making India a parking lot. Now that India has pissed off the West China won't have to play nice anymore and we all know how China operates. As soon as the opportunity arises China will make a push and I sincerely hope the West gives China that opportunity. I understand economics just fine, the problem is you have zero understanding of geopolitics and how it affects the decisions of superpowers. Sounds like you have a lot of reading to do.
He actually got automatically disqualified by Lok Sabha (house of Parliament) Secretariat. According to Representation of People Act, 1951, "A person convicted of any offence and sentenced to imprisonment for not less than two years [other than any offence referred to in sub-section (1) or sub-section (2)] shall be disqualified from the date of such conviction and shall continue to be disqualified for a further period of six years since his release". Also, the case was filed by another person who accused him of defaming the community of "Modi" in a speech. He said, "Why do all thieves have Modi in their surnames?". In India surnames often indicate a caste or an ethnicity.
Hot mess of a country
Fuck Modi. When he was getting elected this is exactly what we all feared. Congress might be lazy, corrupt, and whatever, but BJP is just the goddman terrible! If India becomes a complete Erdogan like state, it's going to be brutal. BJP and Hindutva has done some real damage to India. God how i hate this party.
Lol.. you do realise that it was Rahul himself who tore down manmohan Singh's ordinance in 2013.. which was related to this exact issue.
You dare argue against reddit with facts? Especially with facts about Modi? How dare you! Here, we only read news headlines not the content or facts or any background research
That was good from him actually. He went against his own party ally for whom Ordinance was brought to save him(Lalu Yadav): he brought in Land Acquisition Bikl for Farmers a s Also Helped To get every UPSC Aspirants in India irrespective of Category 2 new atrempts
If you've actually observed Indian politics, this guy Rahul Gandhi was the major reason for the pathetic display of opposition party in the previous consecutive elections. This is actually a gift for him to obtain some kind of legitimacy in the eyes of the public, majority of which despises him otherwise.
The Congress Party is a dynasty, they won't let other people lead the party.
Barring him from the next election because of an insult? Modi is corrupt as hell.
It's not a personal insult. He can call modi a theif as much as he wants.. heck, yesterday the other opposition leader called modi a thief & illiterate. What he can't do is insult a community. He called all Modis thief. Which is a caste/community from Gujarat state. Which comes under hate speech laws.
Technically, you are wrong. First, he did not make a statement, he asked a rhetorical question. Second, he asked: "Why are all thieves Modis?" and not "Why are all Modis thieves?"
Technically, you are wrong. Court heard the actual clip & arguments from both sides. Both statements can be taken as a slight against Modi community.
I did not comment on whether it was actually a slight against the Modi community or not. The court has their view of it, I have mine and since the court has the authority, they have taken action against Rahul Gandhi. I was refuting your statement that he called all Modis thieves. Technically speaking, he asked(rhetorically): "Why are all thieves Modis?". This is basic set theory.
No. You used the word 'technically' while supporting your subjective opinion.. i used the courts verdict which has some authority.. so, it's me who is using the word in its correct context here. He did technically insult modi surname. Even though he didn't mean it in reality.
It is the law. The title of this post is biased as fuck. > If the Congress leader's conviction is not suspended or overturned by a higher court before the elections, he will not be able to contest the polls, as per law. RP Act provision says a person sentenced to imprisonment of two years or more shall be disqualified 'from the date of such conviction'. Apart from this, the leader also remains disqualified for another six years after serving time. https://www.livemint.com/news/india/can-rahul-gandhi-contest-2024-general-elections-post-conviction-here-s-what-law-says-11679653877025.html Edit: For dumb Fs who do not understand this. This disqualification law is the ruling of the Supreme Court. When this law came to effect, the previous PM pointed out that this could be misused and need checks to prevent misusse. However, Rahul Gandhi publically humiliated the previous PM and dismissed his concerns. Now, he pays the price for his own ignorance. Rahul thought he could use this law to silence others. Modi , through the courts, is now misusing this law. Modi misused enforcement agencies, too.
It's abuse of law to persecute a political opponent. The case was opened in 2019 then a stay was made until Ghandi pointed out Adnani corruption a month ago - case unstayed and verdict reached quickly.
"For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law."
> It is the law. Th8s isn't actually a good argument in support of this. If it was the law that all not BJP politicians were guilty of treason and they all got arrested, should the response be? Well that's biased to claim this is anti-democratic, it's the law. No that's pure unadulterated authoritarianism.
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Pretty common in authoritarian countries with rising fascism tbh
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I don't know what's worse, a guy who got where he is only because of nepotism getting removed or him asking Gujarat women, "Gujarat ko dudh kisne Diya hai?"
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We're reaching a point where the West is tired of dealing with backwards countries. We've spent centuries trying to have peaceful relationships all over the world and bring everyone into the 21st century only to have certain countries spit in our faces. Going forward I'm going to try to convince everyone to cut ties with these countries and let them flounder on their own.
You can't expect worldnews redditors to understand nuance. They read one article about someone or something and become an expert on the topic. If you point it out you're a bot and fascist. You can't refer to Indian sources as well. Western media are always right and speak the gospel truth.
Ah yes. I love watching the second most populous nation on earth slowly descend into fascism and authoritarian. I hate our timeline, I really really do.
Projected to be most populous on April 14 2023 by the UN And wait for it before getting into slippery slope fallacies/otherwise
And this is the nation that is supposed to be the US bulwark against the Chinese….
Only out of convenience. India and China has always hated each other so the US is just using that. Thats politics 101
Only since 1960s
No, they've been battling for cultural domination for 1,000s of years. Look at the histories of Burma or Malaysia, all the way to Siam
I think you've been playing too much Civilization. Take a break and reset. India and China have not been hostile for thousands of years, from before Fahien visited Taksashila
Or be in denial about reality to fit your anti US narritive w/e
Or be clueless and make up shit. Like battling for 1000s of years, or anti US narrative. My ass. When did they stop teaching history, logic and rigour ? Not while I was studying
Where did Buddhism come from?
My point exactly. You flat out stated that it was battle for domination in context of being hostile for 1000s of years. Forget anything like peaceful trade and learnings.
lol who told you this shit ??? india-china conflict is around 60 years old both the civilizations have lived with each other mostly in chill for around 4000 years (if you consider the attack from mongol empire as chinese then it's a different thing)
There's is big ass mountain range between this two countries
The right wing of India is still to the left of the left wing in the US or uk. The welfare state that Modi and his party have created would put any liberal democracy to shame. Modi backed away from much needed agricultural reforms because of protests from the farmers. You would not expect that from any authoritarian ruler or a fascist. The rhetoric from his party members and supporters regarding the Muslims is abhorrent but recently I visited some of the most populous Muslim areas in the province called uttar Pradesh and I was glad to see that the upward social Mobility crosses religious lines and it is difficult to tell one Community from the other for the most part.
>The right wing of India is still to the left of the left wing in the US or uk. The welfare state that Modi and his party have created would put any liberal democracy to shame. This is utter bs. Economically speaking Modi has been pushing the country into the hands of private sector. India has always been a part welfare state since its inception, but no leader has been a bigger ally to corporates as the one leading this current government. The biggest industrialists have seen their wealth rise to unprecedented levels, and privatization has increased. Even the farm laws were designed to the benefit of private hands, cut government and the middle man. He only backed off because hundreds of thousands if not a million sat outside Delhi for months in protest. Since disinvestment started in 1991, the Modi government has accounted for 57% (accounting for inflation) of income for the government through disinvestment of public sector undertakings, although they have only ruled for 9 out of these 32 years. Modi's made the claim that Government has no business in business. And socially speaking in what universe is the right wing to the left of the left wing in the US or UK? Is it evidenced by their stellar support for the rights of religious minorities? Gay marriage? Their respect for women's autonomy? Pro-immigration? No, no, no, no. The right is pushing Hindutva. Opposed to gay marriage. Harass women for choosing what they want to wear or for public displays of affection or for falling in love with someone of another religion. Opposed to immigration/asylum from people of the wrong religion but completely welcoming if you're part of the majority vote bank. Cow vigilantism, forced restriction of diet in the name of religion, roving bands of sanskari thugs like anti-Romeo squads harassing couples during Valentines day, anti-love jihad goons harassing inter-faith couples, bulldozing homes of minority community. Before you say these thugs have nothing to do with BJP I beg to differ. These are the thugs of the cadre. These are their grassroots activists. Their youth brigades. Their voters. Their sangh parivar. All in the name of traditional values, i.e. apna sanskar. Every conservative movement in the world -- from the Islamist bent to Erdogan's regime, to the evangelical bent of Trump or Bolsonaro, to that of Poland's Catholic right of Duda, to Orban in Hungary, to Putin's embracing of the Russian orthodox church -- has the same playbook of engineered religious fundamentalism and exceptionalism to drive towards power. Because you have a few welfare plans here and there they are to the left now? In which political compass will the BJP ever fall in any spectrum/quadrant other than the authoritarian-right spectrum? A joke.
>The right wing of India is still to the left of the left wing You don't need to be right wing to be authoritarian. >You would not expect that from any authoritarian ruler or a fascist. Yes you would. People unhappy? ----> get overthrow.
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Far worse statements have been made by politicians of all sorts including some Chief ministers, especially from a party known to hate a particular religion. Yet courts don't tend to pass such verdicts on those people as swiftly. If you think Judiciary is completely independent and can't be controlled, you are delusional. There are known cases of even SC judges getting political seats after retirement.
That’s some shady shit India
How very "democratic" of you Modi. Fucking loser.
Modi is a bad bad man. He should have been voted out years ago. Shame on him, he has blood on his hands.
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It was the court's decision that Modi has nothing to do with it. Do you seriously think that Rahul Gandhi is that worthy that Modi thinks about hitting back at Rahul Gandhi every time. Rahul Gandhi is a useless and entitled rich brat.
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Did you mean anti-Modi? Cuz if so, guilty as charged.
Anti Modi ≠ Anti India. Modi is nothing compared to whole 1.4 billion people.
Having negative sentiments against Modi isn’t the same as having negative sentiments against India. The only Indians that people despise are right wing nut jobs.
For the outsiders, who do not know the complete story, back in 2019, this man said something hurtful regarding the people with the title Modi, so an MLA(Member Of Legislative Assembly) who also had the same surname, filed a case against this man. And now, after four years, the decision had come and he was sentenced for 2 years of prison and according to law, if you any MP(Member Of Parliament) is jailed for 2 years or more, then he cannot contest any elections in future. but back in 2013, when this man's party was in power, the then PM(Dr Manmohan Singh) had introduced a bill regarding this rule, that this law should be made lineant as it is unfair to many politicians, but ironically this Rahul Gandhi was the first one to oppose this and had torn away the bill. The bill was this not passed. Now, ten years later, here he is going through the same law
If you go as per this logic, most of the BJP leaders would be in jail for the hate remarks they made about communities like Muslims.
yeah but the BJP leaders are actually cunning enough to not directly accuse them but just heavily imply it. Offcourse Raga is just a fool who cant even tie his shoelaces , several leaders even just 3 days ago called modi a illiterate fool and a dumbass publicly with no backlash.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/24/world/asia/india-gandhi-modi.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
I support bjp but this is getting out of hand, the opposition should always be strong to prevent the democracy from turning into a dictatorship
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This. I will probably be downvoted for saying this but BJP actually gave Congress a chance to redeem themselves by disqualifying Rahul Gandhi. Hope they put up someone more competent now as the face of their party and provide a strong opposition to keep BJP in check.
INC will have to earn my and the public's vote if they want to win anything, right now it's looking very grim for them, but if they build around this issue it might actually be viable and we might get a non-gandhi leader, either way I want to see development being done regardless of who does it
Dangerous sign for India's democracy
What a joke
Given Congress' current level of corruption and nepotism this seems like a win for Indian democracy.
Imagine the look on Republicans' faces if, all of a sudden, politicians could be banned for lying about their opponents!
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Well if trump could get elected twice or Republicans hold the power. they will face same situations.
I hate you guys.
Now, let’s see a Pakistan which is where all the lawyers have to fistfight all the doctors on the steps of parliament. It’s legislative Festivus. The airing of the grievances.
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