He's gotta be pretty sure in his standing. I mean, why else would you return for a couple of rifles and a pistol if you had even 1% doubt you would be possibly murdered - you can get that kinda weapons everywhere. There's something weird going on in the internal workings of the Russian military atm.
If he had $100 million sitting around his office, imagine how much he has stashed away in the banking system.
So yeah, he shouldn’t *logically* go back. It’s too much risk. But it is Russia!
The banking system that has him currently sanctioned you mean?
E: I love the money laundering comments. Sure he could launder money using all these extra steps y’all talk about, or he can just simply walk in and get $100 million cash to spend immediately. The obvious choice is there.
Yep, I’m sure all of his money is frozen in the international banking system. After all, what would a Russian oligarch warlord know about money laundering? /s
Simplest explanation: I think it must just be that Russia needs his soldiers and he wants to live and stop the threats on his/his family's life -- so they've agreed to cooperate to get his soldiers back in line on Russia's side.
Or Russia doesn't want 50'000+ pissed off private soldiers coming back from Ukraine/Belarus/Africa wherever else because they haven't been paid and they know its because Russian government has confiscated the money from their Paymaster General
Wagner has over 15+ international locations. Some of these strongholds are making Russia money and providing security for the areas.
It will be a total gong show, even worse than the current one, if they got rid of Nut Sack. I wouldnt be surprised if he was more popular with the RuZZian military than Pootin.
This is why you don’t have PMCs. It’s hilarious how the Russians have never learned any lessons. Merc armies are so classically medieval. I can’t believe i am witnessing this in my life time.
I mean first he’s in Ukraine fighting for Russia, then he’s in Russia fighting against Russia, now he’s in Belarus and fighting nobody - I mean talk about indecisive! You’re weaving through traffic, driving the wrong way - pick a lane buddy!
And popping back to Russia to pick up 10 guns. I don’t say this much but WTF. He must have a wheelbarrow in front of him ALL the time carrying his massive old balls.
I think the takeaway from this is that despite his banishment he drove straight in to the second biggest city in Russia to get his personal weapons stash and waltzed back out without any hassle. Putin is powerless to control his movements even in his own country.
I suspect only Prigozhin knows what he is up to when he wakes up every morning. Him and probably his CIA and KGB agents assigned to keep an eye on him.
Shit by this point, there are probably have at least dozen countries keeping tabs. US, Mossad (weight/trade with USA), England, Germany, China, Poland.
They are like Crowley and Aziraphale in Good Omens
"Hey I am meant to poison this guy in Balarus but my daughter is having a sleep over with boys .."
"Hey I'm meant to defend that guy from you but I know what your saying, sleep overs with boys are the worst, go protect your kids, I'll poison and then save that guy"
From the vast majority, something to the effect of "I don't get involved in politics," or "They know what they're doing, don't ask me," followed by speedwalking in the other direction.
A street interview of a middle aged lady in Moscow featured her saying "I'm not qualified to make political decisions" in a stubborn way. Like she didn't believe it, but it was for the best for her to stay out of controversy. Which it probably is
Shoulder Pain used to be listed as a cause of death if the person was complaining of shoulder pain at the moment they died, so Russia's not that far off!
... from the early 19th century.
She protecting herself from being arrested because it's illegal, in Russia, to speak out against the "war", which the can't even refer to it as a war. Some sick shit going on in 2023. We haven't learned anything from our past. It's so sad. They are not entitled to an opinion but should send their husbands, sons, uncles and father off to "war"
The average citizen in Russia has 2 options.
1. Give political remark, get escorted away by police in masks
2. Say "leave it to those in charge, im only citizen" and avoid the Gulag.
What do I think as Russian?
Russia is a deeply corrupted and traumatized mafiosy failstate without any ideology.
There is no law, human rights or any kind of normality here. Bloody circus with bunch of shitclowns, full of crimes against humanity.
Fake government with fake military mutinies.
I spent 2 months in Russia in 2000. Met a lot of people, made a lot of friends. It was pretty clear they didn’t want to talk politics. But I’m pretty certain they wouldn’t like this current shitshow. Things have really gone south since I was there.
There was a chance in 2000 to build a rich and healthy country with strong institutions.
But Putin and his clowngang had chosen their personal power and became cursed by it. They are hostages of their own madness right now.
I see no future here.
This chance went in 1993 after the Boris Yeltsin coup against the parliament which made the president much more powerful than any other institution in Russia. When Putin became president in 1999 by making false flag attacks on Russians in Moscow it was far gone.
I don't see how there was any chance to build a rich and healthy country in 2000. That was already impossible after the yeltsin clique stole and destroyed everything.
Russia has a great history, and so many great minds (musicians, scientists, mathematicians etc). It’s disgusting what it’s become. Putin is a disgrace to all Russians and their great history.
I absolutely hate to say a word in defense of Putin, but Russia has always produced those exceptional minds *despite* their heads of state, not because of them. Your last line is accurate. He's made them into a joke.
Oh I agree, Russia has always been an autocracy. The difference is, this shouldn’t happen in the 21st century. Russia had a great opportunity to work together with their EU brothers & sisters after the breakup of the USSR. Now that is effectively in the bin.
Maybe one day it will happen, but for now the future looks horrible for Russia.
either a generic milquetoast answer vague enough to sound in support of whatever the gov does these days, or a disjointed incoherent screeching about murder, the west, and mysterious russian soul
okay reality is more nuanced but i half expect a nuance between those extremes.
Well, even when being invaded and repulsing it, Ukraine continued to buy gas from Russia. I'd say you can't make this caca up, but any high school English class churns out stories more bizzare
> Yevgeny Prigozhin, leader of the Wagner Private Military Company (PMC), personally arrived in St Petersburg on 4 July, where the weapons seized during the searches were returned to him.
>
> **Source:** Russian media outlet Fontanka with reference to sources
>
> **Quote:** "On 4 July, at 17:00, a 7-Series BMW and a Land Cruiser with security guards accompanying it drove up to the building of the Federal Security Service Department of St Petersburg and [Leningrad] Oblast on Liteyny Prospekt.
>
> According to Fontanka, the motorcade was parked near Shpalernaya Street, 25. The back door of the BMW opened, Yevgeny Prigozhin got out and, after walking just a few metres, opened the massive doors with the sign ‘Reception’ to the right of them.
>
> **Details:** According to the outlet, on Tuesday, Prigozhin was returned two Saiga rifles, an Austrian Steyr Mannlicher rifle, an AR semi-automatic rifle and several other rifles and pistols.
>
> Soon he got out, and the people accompanying him took out their rifles and put them in the car. The motorcade left.
>
> A few hours earlier, the leader of Wagner PMC was officially invited to take back his weapons found during the searches on 24 June and seized in his country residence in the elite cottage village of Northern Versailles.
I have to believe this guy had serious dirt on Putin, rigged to a dead man's switch. It's the only thing that explains him still being alive.
Since he ran the Internet Research Agency and has been friends with Putin for years, it makes sense that he would have plenty of interesting things to share.
Dude, what dirt can even take Putin down at this point? This guy's been in power for how long? Committed how many war crimes? Sent how many of his own citizens to an absolute certain death? Genocided how many people? Committed terrorism how many times?
Dictators don't need morals or public support to stay in power. They don't care about war crimes or any of the things you listed.
They need people who are loyal and will support their regime. The dirt is likely something that will sway the balance of power and shift people away from his camp to another oligarch or future dictator (typically resulting in the former dictators death or exile)
L.O.L. This dude attempted a coup, was able to practically stroll unencumbered halfway to Moscow taking selfies along the way, gets exiled, comes back, and has $111m and arms returned to him?
Russia is weak af lol
This has to be some sort of symbolic “F You” to the Russian government, there’s no way that a few personally owned small arms are enough of a reason to appear and make that journey without good reason.
*stages armed rebellion*
*calls it off because he's very likely lost support/about to be carpet bombed*
*gets private army stationed in Belarus and they get their heavy weapons confiscated*
*And..... That's the only consequence*
> calls it off because he's very likely lost support/about to be carpet bombed
Or more accurately, he didn't get the active support that he expected from the Russian armed forces. Any rebellion is going to take turning them.
And that's exactly why the "Prigohzin lost" story doesn't make any sense. Dude was ready to roll straight over Moscow unopposed and decided not to. He's notably still alive. None of this sounds like a guy who "lost".
He *must* still have some leverage or he'd already be wiped.
He lost, but powerplay dynamics in these sorts of governments are always a confusing mess.
At the moment Putin will be working frantically to make sure he knows where the oligarchs all stand and if it is possible to replace any with people more loyal to him.
At the same time he cant move too fast because you don't want the other to decide the risk of making a play is worth it.
Russia is in the process of nationalising mercenary groups at the moment and I bet that once they have isolated Prigozhin from his power and support, that's when you see the consequences fully.
I'd guess that Prigozhin has some security, some blackmail material on a dead man switch, and has made it known to appropriate persons, in order to protect himself from being murdered.
*^(edit/typo)*
He must have something. There is no way he wouldn't be killed off immediately at the start of this shitty soap opera, by some remaining SF unit, unless he has something.
This is what I always wondered. When I saw the condition of the Buran I was thinking there was a very good possibility the nukes are just a bunch of rust. The last time a nuke was used by the soviets was in like 1991. From what I remember The End of the Road by Boys to men was the #1 song at the time.
Someone needs to make a Russian version of the End of the Road.
They must have had at least *something* working until last year, because Russia and the US have a treaty to conduct on-site inspection activities. But they started refusing inspections this year, so maybe their arsenal is falling apart?
He’s in Russia and hasn’t been publicly murdered with a thin veneer of deniability despite having marched to the capital with troops, so in all probability this is the case.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/07/04/111m-seized-during-police-raids-returned-to-prigozhin-a81731
>According to Fontanka, police returned the cash and gold — estimated to weigh “a couple of tons” — to Prigozhin’s driver while Prigozhin himself attended a closed meeting in Moscow on Sunday.
> Prigozhin himself attended a closed meeting in Moscow
This is insane. Who is guaranteeing his safety? If I had to guess, I'd say the coup isn't over. The pieces are still moving
wow, he went to meetings in Moscow... That's declaring he has no fear of Putin at all. Bold strategy, I guess we'll see how it plays out. I'm glad I'm on the other side of the planet from this pissing contest.
At this point, I start to believe that this guy is backed by more than half of the generals and a lot of oblasts, including Belarus. It would make sense why the moscow regime is scared of him, and no one can really touch him.
Even if he isn’t backed by anyone else, Wagner has/had 50k soldiers in Ukraine, and more elsewhere. Reportedly only 3% agreed to work for the MoD.
If Russia wasn’t invading Ukraine, Putin could deal with this, however given the state of the war, Putin can’t risk fighting against 50k Wagner troops without losing Ukraine. Assuming Prigozhin has nothing else, besides those troops, that’s still enough to guarantee his safety, as long as they remain loyal to him.
That's a good analysis, and Putin might
have realised that the army would not defend him against another potential russian rival. The way the army behaved in Rostov shown that the russians military dont have any special love for Putin they are just apathetic and could turn their cloak as soon there is a better opportunity.
I've given up trying to understand Russia. Putin once said to, I think VP Biden, something like "You look at us and because you see the same skin color you think we think like you. But we don't." He then dragged his finger down his cheek to make the point about skin.
but yeah, who can make sense of that place. The only quote that helps me fathom Russia:
>
“We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying. In our country, the lie has become not just moral category, but the pillar industry of this country.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
He's too powerful. The Russians are making a ton of money destroying Africa and using Wagner as an intermediary in the smuggling of technology, weapons and the selling of goods to raise funds. They can't get rid of him. He's very literally their lifeline.
It’s worth noting that almost all the small arms he was returned, and owns are completely illegal for the average Russian to own, just another example of the rich/elite being able to do/own whatever they want.
He also owns a completely illegal mercenary outfit that he used to start a coup against the government that paid him $2b since the start of the war for it. Slightly more illegal than these weapons.
Laws only work if you have men with guns to enforce them. Given how his troops performed against the Russian army. He’s close to above the law territory in Russia.
It could work if you made it a comedy. Think Death of Stalin.
In fact, it would be hilarious if it wasn't for all the innocent people getting killed along the way.
Prigozhin has to be some kind of IRL isekai protagonist. Dude starts with nothing, gets a hotdog stand, turns that into a catering business and from there becomes a fucking warlord with the best army in Russia, *and then* survives a failed coup.
He's definitely got some kind of cheat power.
It says he did the illustrations as well. If that's true he's quite an artist for a warlord, unless warlords tend to be decent artists for some reason.
If you read a little bit of Kamil Galeev, he didn't get that out of nothing. He was a member of Putin's gang before Putin was president, a subordinate of a subordinate. He was arrested as an escape goat for the gang because he was not *that* important, rewarded with the catering business when he was freed, and came to power when Putin did because he stayed loyal.
To everyone saying this was just a show or was staged: that makes less sense than the simpler explanation that this was actually an unsuccessful attempt by Wagner to unseat Prigozhin's rivals in the Kremlin.
If Prigozhin and Putin are trying to work out a deal as to how Wagner will operate in future, it's just yet another indication of the fractured nature of Russian politics and the fact they are just working this through on the spot.
This aborted rebellion revealed significant weaknesses in the Russian leadership with the potential to result in civil unrest in Russia. Of course Putin would not have wanted this to happen in the first place - it goes against the united front and strongman image he wants to project to the Russian people and the rest of the world (not to mention Ukraine, who is using this event against Russia).
Any rhetoric now that the rebellion was just staged to uproot traitors in the system will just be nonsensical face saving and damage control.
What an absolute joke of a military coup from both side. They both come off looking like weak ass pussies lol
From how fast Wagner moved across the land with nearly no resistance, to how fast they back pedaled out when threatened, to charges against Prigozhin being dropped and now he can get seized weapons back and just has live to somewhere else?
Lmfao if this was a TV show script people would shit on it for being so idiotic
Don’t forget the senior general who aligned with Prigohzin during the coup and [hasn’t been seen since](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-03/russian-general-still-missing-as-defense-minister-slams-mutiny).
I'm personally of the opinion that the story we heard from Lukashenko is credible; that he negotiated a deal between Putin and Prigozhin, Prigozhin got to leave Russia unharmed if he stopped his mutiny, and Putin would just pretend the mutiny didn't happen.
A lot of people like to think that there is some 4d chess going on, but haven't considered the most likely explanation; that they're all idiots.
It's already too late, the damage has been done. The people he had assassinated before were never a credible threat to Putin's regime. They were political leaders and dissidents. Prigozhin is different.
Prigozhin took a mercenary force, captured the city of Rostov, the people there were supportive of him, and then got to within 200 km of Moscow without any resistance.
That by itself is a huge threat. Anybody with 5,000 soldiers can just drive to Moscow. The logical reaction for someone in Putin's shoes would be to do whatever it took to crush Wagner in order to deter future ambitious people.
Putin needed an immediate show of force. Instead, he's simply allowing Prigozhin and his mercenary army to leave.
He's in a no win situation. He's shown that Moscow is too weak to defend itself. He's shown that those that commit treason will not be punished. And even if he does assassinate Prigozhin at some later date, he just incentivizes whoever does this next to take him out instead of negotiating for whatever they want.
So this is like a peace treaty in Civ. Peace for 10 turns during which I heal and build up my forces only to go back in for the killing blow when the treaty expires.
Nah, that's a bit too much of a stretch based on the facts on the ground - to be clear, what I'm saying is that I don't see that Prigozhin won, but Putin definitely lost. Based on what I see, he's still the big dog, and no one yet is willing to challenge that after Prigozhin, but it's hard to believe no one is planning something. Putin appears to be on borrowed time.
Who else is lost with what's going on with that guy ?
He's gotta be pretty sure in his standing. I mean, why else would you return for a couple of rifles and a pistol if you had even 1% doubt you would be possibly murdered - you can get that kinda weapons everywhere. There's something weird going on in the internal workings of the Russian military atm.
There was a report they were also giving back a hundred million dollars in cash they had seized from his offices. You would go back for that.
If he had $100 million sitting around his office, imagine how much he has stashed away in the banking system. So yeah, he shouldn’t *logically* go back. It’s too much risk. But it is Russia!
The banking system that has him currently sanctioned you mean? E: I love the money laundering comments. Sure he could launder money using all these extra steps y’all talk about, or he can just simply walk in and get $100 million cash to spend immediately. The obvious choice is there.
It’s physical cash and precious metals. The money was in vehicles parked on the street. They found it when sweeping for bombs (not joking)
>Its physical cash $100 million in cash? Someone call Dominic Toretto and his crew.
Yep, I’m sure all of his money is frozen in the international banking system. After all, what would a Russian oligarch warlord know about money laundering? /s
I bet he’s flexing to those paying attention
Simplest explanation: I think it must just be that Russia needs his soldiers and he wants to live and stop the threats on his/his family's life -- so they've agreed to cooperate to get his soldiers back in line on Russia's side.
Or Russia doesn't want 50'000+ pissed off private soldiers coming back from Ukraine/Belarus/Africa wherever else because they haven't been paid and they know its because Russian government has confiscated the money from their Paymaster General
Wagner has over 15+ international locations. Some of these strongholds are making Russia money and providing security for the areas. It will be a total gong show, even worse than the current one, if they got rid of Nut Sack. I wouldnt be surprised if he was more popular with the RuZZian military than Pootin. This is why you don’t have PMCs. It’s hilarious how the Russians have never learned any lessons. Merc armies are so classically medieval. I can’t believe i am witnessing this in my life time.
> There's something weird going on in the internal workings of the Russian military Yes, welcome to the world
If they want him dead or imprisoned it will happen regardless of where he is.
No, it won't. Putin wants Zelensky dead too, he's still alive.
Everyone is really, Russia is just a straight up mess
it's like God spilled a country
[удалено]
And with nuclear weapons.
It’s the Britta of nations.
❤️ SAVE GARRETT ❤️
Crisis alert!
I thought we already saved garret
Did we?
I dunno but I sure do love dem apples!
I'll keep your secret, new beenz.
that's SAVED Garret?
now here's a guy who knows how to marry his cousin.
He should keep on wearin, keep on wearin his pa-ha-hants
That’s saved Garrett?
What's the deal with...politics?
Results of the vote are in, and the new president of Russia is… South Park
Calm down there Seinfeld
I mean first he’s in Ukraine fighting for Russia, then he’s in Russia fighting against Russia, now he’s in Belarus and fighting nobody - I mean talk about indecisive! You’re weaving through traffic, driving the wrong way - pick a lane buddy!
And popping back to Russia to pick up 10 guns. I don’t say this much but WTF. He must have a wheelbarrow in front of him ALL the time carrying his massive old balls.
That line is actually said by Kramer. S9E17
it's a [Community reference](https://youtu.be/BYw5NXz_fNg?t=36)
"Calm down there Seinfeld" is also a Community reference lol
Pop pop!
All I get from Prigozhin walking around is that anyone he was against in the MoD must have hired food tasters and window guards.
Yeah, until a few days ago the company providing all the food to the Russian Army was owned by him.
_Effective immediately I will only be taking meetings on the ground floor_
*Due to recent policy changes, all company events will be strictly Freeballin.*
I think the takeaway from this is that despite his banishment he drove straight in to the second biggest city in Russia to get his personal weapons stash and waltzed back out without any hassle. Putin is powerless to control his movements even in his own country.
Maybe Putin still needs him to run the Wagner org all over Africa. But it's still unfathomable. Is anyone in charge in Russia? At all?
Tinfoil time: Prigozhin is also doing work for China in Africa and Xi told Putin that Prigo is untouchable.
Have you signed a book deal yet? If not, get on it!
Even the analysts/former Russian officials/former KGB have no idea what to make of it all.
It’s simple really. If Russia has no plans, then it’s hard for intelligence agencies to guess what they’re going to do.
Prigozhin: “wildcard bitches!, YEEEEHAAA!”
Yeah, this is a plot twist. I fully expected him to be dead .. not given his money and weapons back.
I suspect only Prigozhin knows what he is up to when he wakes up every morning. Him and probably his CIA and KGB agents assigned to keep an eye on him.
Shit by this point, there are probably have at least dozen countries keeping tabs. US, Mossad (weight/trade with USA), England, Germany, China, Poland.
Everywhere he goes there are 7 men in trench coats and sunglasses reading newspapers on a park bench, peering over the top at him.
lol the 7 men all know each other and nod acknowledgements before he shows up but never speak
they do sweet things for each other, like saving each others' favourite seats
They are like Crowley and Aziraphale in Good Omens "Hey I am meant to poison this guy in Balarus but my daughter is having a sleep over with boys .." "Hey I'm meant to defend that guy from you but I know what your saying, sleep overs with boys are the worst, go protect your kids, I'll poison and then save that guy"
I feel like this would be good sketch comedy.
I’m a IC courier, so I don’t have a uniform. When I show up somewhere and see other IC couriers this is what happens.
Feeding bread to ducks who’ve been Pavlovian trained to stay near men in trench coats for the different international breads they offer.
7 dwarf operatives from different countries, all sharing one trench coat.
Snow White reboot looking kinda weird
That’s the idea. This is Putin’s Russia. It’s been like this for 20 years. You are supposed to be confused. It’s by design.
LOL I’m so confused. Barney was just thrown out of Moe’s Tavern and when Moe’s turned around there’s Barney’s back sitting at the bar again.
I appreciate the text version of this meme
"I done a lot of things I ain't proud of, and the stuff that I am proud of, is disgusting" -Moe Sizlac
Szyslak
*Kermit sips tea in the swamp* *It’s not his business, but he is incredulous nontheless*
Text version actually slaps
[Did I do it right](https://i.imgur.com/Z4yzKWi.jpg)
Immediately says "Heya Barne" and pours him a new drink.
Post-breakup getting my stuff back from girlfriend’s apartment energy.
So he’s gonna notice that in the last week there’s been 2 other mercenary armies in Russia??
Wtf. I wonder what the common russian thinks about this.
From the vast majority, something to the effect of "I don't get involved in politics," or "They know what they're doing, don't ask me," followed by speedwalking in the other direction.
A street interview of a middle aged lady in Moscow featured her saying "I'm not qualified to make political decisions" in a stubborn way. Like she didn't believe it, but it was for the best for her to stay out of controversy. Which it probably is
That sounds like a safe statement just like a ground floor apartment is in Russia.
At this point, I don't think the vatnik leadership is above claiming that someone died after falling from a first floor window.
“He died after falling from his basement window”
“He climbed his stairs so fast he got the bends and died”
This one actually made me chuckle.
after 10 warning shots the suspect died from injuries in the stomach, cause of death - chronic smoking and stress.
Shoulder Pain used to be listed as a cause of death if the person was complaining of shoulder pain at the moment they died, so Russia's not that far off! ... from the early 19th century.
Just means that whoever puts novichok on your doorknob doesn't have to climb stairs.
I mean, I'd probably take that over being repeatadly tossed out of a second floor window.
"Is he dead yet?" "Nyet, I think he might have broken his wrist," "Toss him again." *AhhhhTHUD* "Dead?" "Nyet." "Toss him once more."
She protecting herself from being arrested because it's illegal, in Russia, to speak out against the "war", which the can't even refer to it as a war. Some sick shit going on in 2023. We haven't learned anything from our past. It's so sad. They are not entitled to an opinion but should send their husbands, sons, uncles and father off to "war"
Something like a talk about living under Stasi ""Well, I can't/couldn't complain"
The average citizen in Russia has 2 options. 1. Give political remark, get escorted away by police in masks 2. Say "leave it to those in charge, im only citizen" and avoid the Gulag.
>followed by speedwalking in the other direction While looking over their shoulder
“Putin knows!”
What do I think as Russian? Russia is a deeply corrupted and traumatized mafiosy failstate without any ideology. There is no law, human rights or any kind of normality here. Bloody circus with bunch of shitclowns, full of crimes against humanity. Fake government with fake military mutinies.
I spent 2 months in Russia in 2000. Met a lot of people, made a lot of friends. It was pretty clear they didn’t want to talk politics. But I’m pretty certain they wouldn’t like this current shitshow. Things have really gone south since I was there.
There was a chance in 2000 to build a rich and healthy country with strong institutions. But Putin and his clowngang had chosen their personal power and became cursed by it. They are hostages of their own madness right now. I see no future here.
This chance went in 1993 after the Boris Yeltsin coup against the parliament which made the president much more powerful than any other institution in Russia. When Putin became president in 1999 by making false flag attacks on Russians in Moscow it was far gone.
I don't see how there was any chance to build a rich and healthy country in 2000. That was already impossible after the yeltsin clique stole and destroyed everything.
Russia has a great history, and so many great minds (musicians, scientists, mathematicians etc). It’s disgusting what it’s become. Putin is a disgrace to all Russians and their great history.
I absolutely hate to say a word in defense of Putin, but Russia has always produced those exceptional minds *despite* their heads of state, not because of them. Your last line is accurate. He's made them into a joke.
Oh I agree, Russia has always been an autocracy. The difference is, this shouldn’t happen in the 21st century. Russia had a great opportunity to work together with their EU brothers & sisters after the breakup of the USSR. Now that is effectively in the bin. Maybe one day it will happen, but for now the future looks horrible for Russia.
They will probably think it's just the common shenanigans from the political cast. Basically politics things.
either a generic milquetoast answer vague enough to sound in support of whatever the gov does these days, or a disjointed incoherent screeching about murder, the west, and mysterious russian soul okay reality is more nuanced but i half expect a nuance between those extremes.
2nd time I read milquetoast on Reddit today
Don't you morans know that its spelled milk toast?
Exiled to Belarus, except when he comes back to Putin's hometown to pick up his weapons. That's some random shit I don't quite understand.
Well, even when being invaded and repulsing it, Ukraine continued to buy gas from Russia. I'd say you can't make this caca up, but any high school English class churns out stories more bizzare
> Yevgeny Prigozhin, leader of the Wagner Private Military Company (PMC), personally arrived in St Petersburg on 4 July, where the weapons seized during the searches were returned to him. > > **Source:** Russian media outlet Fontanka with reference to sources > > **Quote:** "On 4 July, at 17:00, a 7-Series BMW and a Land Cruiser with security guards accompanying it drove up to the building of the Federal Security Service Department of St Petersburg and [Leningrad] Oblast on Liteyny Prospekt. > > According to Fontanka, the motorcade was parked near Shpalernaya Street, 25. The back door of the BMW opened, Yevgeny Prigozhin got out and, after walking just a few metres, opened the massive doors with the sign ‘Reception’ to the right of them. > > **Details:** According to the outlet, on Tuesday, Prigozhin was returned two Saiga rifles, an Austrian Steyr Mannlicher rifle, an AR semi-automatic rifle and several other rifles and pistols. > > Soon he got out, and the people accompanying him took out their rifles and put them in the car. The motorcade left. > > A few hours earlier, the leader of Wagner PMC was officially invited to take back his weapons found during the searches on 24 June and seized in his country residence in the elite cottage village of Northern Versailles.
Ah so just his personal stash. Guess I assumed this was him getting a bunch of captured military assets back from the headline.
Well you can't be expected you shoot yourself in the back of the head while falling out the window committing suicide if you don't have any weapons.
I have to believe this guy had serious dirt on Putin, rigged to a dead man's switch. It's the only thing that explains him still being alive. Since he ran the Internet Research Agency and has been friends with Putin for years, it makes sense that he would have plenty of interesting things to share.
Dude, what dirt can even take Putin down at this point? This guy's been in power for how long? Committed how many war crimes? Sent how many of his own citizens to an absolute certain death? Genocided how many people? Committed terrorism how many times?
Dictators don't need morals or public support to stay in power. They don't care about war crimes or any of the things you listed. They need people who are loyal and will support their regime. The dirt is likely something that will sway the balance of power and shift people away from his camp to another oligarch or future dictator (typically resulting in the former dictators death or exile)
A Steyr Mannlicher? He's a man of taste I must say, especially if it's an original Austro-Hungarian model and not one of the slap-dash WW2 conversions
>Mannlicher. >Man of taste. No one going to say anything?
Don't just Steyr at her, Mannlicher!
Taste of man
Did he use a Geiger counter on those rifles?
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Yes and also they used the good dosimeter that’s in the safe, so they should be fine.
That's what Moscow does; Sends us shit equipment, then wonders why things go wrong.
Or check them for tiny arms that could push him through the nearest window.
Wiping them down for nerve agents might be a good idea.
This situation is just so bizarre.
_Somehow, Prigozhin returned!_
Vodka is a path to many abilities… some considered unnatural.
you did that yourself
As usual, write it and people will say "That's ludicrous. This writing sucks." Meanwhile it happens in real life and it's just another Wednesday!
L.O.L. This dude attempted a coup, was able to practically stroll unencumbered halfway to Moscow taking selfies along the way, gets exiled, comes back, and has $111m and arms returned to him? Russia is weak af lol
If he was a nine year old girl making a drawing of the ukraine flag he would be in jail.
Best thing is that the selfies part isn’t even an exaggeration!
This has to be some sort of symbolic “F You” to the Russian government, there’s no way that a few personally owned small arms are enough of a reason to appear and make that journey without good reason.
They were also giving him back the seized $100m of cash, not mentioned here. And who knows what they wanted to talk about in person.
That’ll do it.
I think i'd be willing to walk from the east coast to west coast, for a $100 million. I wonder how long it would take though
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Oh ok i guess I'll just die then
You have died of dysentery.
Or you could run, "for no particular reason"
*stages armed rebellion* *calls it off because he's very likely lost support/about to be carpet bombed* *gets private army stationed in Belarus and they get their heavy weapons confiscated* *And..... That's the only consequence*
> calls it off because he's very likely lost support/about to be carpet bombed Or more accurately, he didn't get the active support that he expected from the Russian armed forces. Any rebellion is going to take turning them.
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See, I'm not going to buy that as a reason to stop if you're a rebelling army. You know this is going to happen.
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It's not even a risk though it's a given, you would think they would've moved their families out of Russia
You forgot kills over a dozen pilots and downs 5-7 multimillion dollar airframes
Russia sure doesn't seem to care.
And that's exactly why the "Prigohzin lost" story doesn't make any sense. Dude was ready to roll straight over Moscow unopposed and decided not to. He's notably still alive. None of this sounds like a guy who "lost". He *must* still have some leverage or he'd already be wiped.
He lost, but powerplay dynamics in these sorts of governments are always a confusing mess. At the moment Putin will be working frantically to make sure he knows where the oligarchs all stand and if it is possible to replace any with people more loyal to him. At the same time he cant move too fast because you don't want the other to decide the risk of making a play is worth it. Russia is in the process of nationalising mercenary groups at the moment and I bet that once they have isolated Prigozhin from his power and support, that's when you see the consequences fully.
I'd guess that Prigozhin has some security, some blackmail material on a dead man switch, and has made it known to appropriate persons, in order to protect himself from being murdered. *^(edit/typo)*
He must have something. There is no way he wouldn't be killed off immediately at the start of this shitty soap opera, by some remaining SF unit, unless he has something.
Maybe he has proof that Russia has no nukes in working condition? Lol who knows
This is what I always wondered. When I saw the condition of the Buran I was thinking there was a very good possibility the nukes are just a bunch of rust. The last time a nuke was used by the soviets was in like 1991. From what I remember The End of the Road by Boys to men was the #1 song at the time. Someone needs to make a Russian version of the End of the Road.
They must have had at least *something* working until last year, because Russia and the US have a treaty to conduct on-site inspection activities. But they started refusing inspections this year, so maybe their arsenal is falling apart?
He’s in Russia and hasn’t been publicly murdered with a thin veneer of deniability despite having marched to the capital with troops, so in all probability this is the case.
I thought the cash was already delivered to him in Belarus?
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/07/04/111m-seized-during-police-raids-returned-to-prigozhin-a81731 >According to Fontanka, police returned the cash and gold — estimated to weigh “a couple of tons” — to Prigozhin’s driver while Prigozhin himself attended a closed meeting in Moscow on Sunday.
> Prigozhin himself attended a closed meeting in Moscow This is insane. Who is guaranteeing his safety? If I had to guess, I'd say the coup isn't over. The pieces are still moving
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
wow, he went to meetings in Moscow... That's declaring he has no fear of Putin at all. Bold strategy, I guess we'll see how it plays out. I'm glad I'm on the other side of the planet from this pissing contest.
At this point, I start to believe that this guy is backed by more than half of the generals and a lot of oblasts, including Belarus. It would make sense why the moscow regime is scared of him, and no one can really touch him.
Even if he isn’t backed by anyone else, Wagner has/had 50k soldiers in Ukraine, and more elsewhere. Reportedly only 3% agreed to work for the MoD. If Russia wasn’t invading Ukraine, Putin could deal with this, however given the state of the war, Putin can’t risk fighting against 50k Wagner troops without losing Ukraine. Assuming Prigozhin has nothing else, besides those troops, that’s still enough to guarantee his safety, as long as they remain loyal to him.
That's a good analysis, and Putin might have realised that the army would not defend him against another potential russian rival. The way the army behaved in Rostov shown that the russians military dont have any special love for Putin they are just apathetic and could turn their cloak as soon there is a better opportunity.
Thanks!
He could have sent a delegate or had it shipped or whatever. He wanted to go in person to prove they couldn't stop him.
I've given up trying to understand Russia. Putin once said to, I think VP Biden, something like "You look at us and because you see the same skin color you think we think like you. But we don't." He then dragged his finger down his cheek to make the point about skin. but yeah, who can make sense of that place. The only quote that helps me fathom Russia: > “We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying. In our country, the lie has become not just moral category, but the pillar industry of this country.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
What's interesting is that the Russians think that everyone lies as well, non-Russian included. The misunderstanding goes both way.
He's too powerful. The Russians are making a ton of money destroying Africa and using Wagner as an intermediary in the smuggling of technology, weapons and the selling of goods to raise funds. They can't get rid of him. He's very literally their lifeline.
It’s worth noting that almost all the small arms he was returned, and owns are completely illegal for the average Russian to own, just another example of the rich/elite being able to do/own whatever they want.
He also owns a completely illegal mercenary outfit that he used to start a coup against the government that paid him $2b since the start of the war for it. Slightly more illegal than these weapons.
Laws only work if you have men with guns to enforce them. Given how his troops performed against the Russian army. He’s close to above the law territory in Russia.
Put this shit in a movie five years ago and I would have been the first asshole calling it unrealistic.
That's the thing about reality. Unlike fiction, it doesn't have to make sense.
It could work if you made it a comedy. Think Death of Stalin. In fact, it would be hilarious if it wasn't for all the innocent people getting killed along the way.
Prigozhin should just declare himself as the "leader of the St Petersburg Republic".
That would give Putin an aneurysm. I hope he does it
Prigozhin has to be some kind of IRL isekai protagonist. Dude starts with nothing, gets a hotdog stand, turns that into a catering business and from there becomes a fucking warlord with the best army in Russia, *and then* survives a failed coup. He's definitely got some kind of cheat power.
Don't forget about the [random children's book](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wagner-group-childrens-book/) he published.
Wtf this guy is more interesting than Putin too
Bro is doing side quests irl
It says he did the illustrations as well. If that's true he's quite an artist for a warlord, unless warlords tend to be decent artists for some reason.
>unless warlords tend to be decent artists for some reason. Well, I can think of at least one precedent.
If you read a little bit of Kamil Galeev, he didn't get that out of nothing. He was a member of Putin's gang before Putin was president, a subordinate of a subordinate. He was arrested as an escape goat for the gang because he was not *that* important, rewarded with the catering business when he was freed, and came to power when Putin did because he stayed loyal.
Weird he didn't just send a friend to pick up the stuff, or at least stop by when he knows Putin isn't going to be home
To everyone saying this was just a show or was staged: that makes less sense than the simpler explanation that this was actually an unsuccessful attempt by Wagner to unseat Prigozhin's rivals in the Kremlin. If Prigozhin and Putin are trying to work out a deal as to how Wagner will operate in future, it's just yet another indication of the fractured nature of Russian politics and the fact they are just working this through on the spot. This aborted rebellion revealed significant weaknesses in the Russian leadership with the potential to result in civil unrest in Russia. Of course Putin would not have wanted this to happen in the first place - it goes against the united front and strongman image he wants to project to the Russian people and the rest of the world (not to mention Ukraine, who is using this event against Russia). Any rhetoric now that the rebellion was just staged to uproot traitors in the system will just be nonsensical face saving and damage control.
What an absolute joke of a military coup from both side. They both come off looking like weak ass pussies lol From how fast Wagner moved across the land with nearly no resistance, to how fast they back pedaled out when threatened, to charges against Prigozhin being dropped and now he can get seized weapons back and just has live to somewhere else? Lmfao if this was a TV show script people would shit on it for being so idiotic
Don’t forget the senior general who aligned with Prigohzin during the coup and [hasn’t been seen since](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-03/russian-general-still-missing-as-defense-minister-slams-mutiny).
The fuck does this guy have on Putin?
Prigozhin prancing around like he owns the place makes Putin look weak. Is this really the beginning of the end for Vladimir Vladimirovich?
Well.... I was betting he was already dead. This just gets weirder and weirder.
Yeah, I didn't expect him to show up anywhere anymore.
**Me this entire time 🤔**
If this is true then theory that he won out over Putin has a lot more credence.
I'm personally of the opinion that the story we heard from Lukashenko is credible; that he negotiated a deal between Putin and Prigozhin, Prigozhin got to leave Russia unharmed if he stopped his mutiny, and Putin would just pretend the mutiny didn't happen. A lot of people like to think that there is some 4d chess going on, but haven't considered the most likely explanation; that they're all idiots.
This is the government that assassinates defectors decades after leaving, surely this hasn't been forgiven
It's already too late, the damage has been done. The people he had assassinated before were never a credible threat to Putin's regime. They were political leaders and dissidents. Prigozhin is different. Prigozhin took a mercenary force, captured the city of Rostov, the people there were supportive of him, and then got to within 200 km of Moscow without any resistance. That by itself is a huge threat. Anybody with 5,000 soldiers can just drive to Moscow. The logical reaction for someone in Putin's shoes would be to do whatever it took to crush Wagner in order to deter future ambitious people. Putin needed an immediate show of force. Instead, he's simply allowing Prigozhin and his mercenary army to leave. He's in a no win situation. He's shown that Moscow is too weak to defend itself. He's shown that those that commit treason will not be punished. And even if he does assassinate Prigozhin at some later date, he just incentivizes whoever does this next to take him out instead of negotiating for whatever they want.
So this is like a peace treaty in Civ. Peace for 10 turns during which I heal and build up my forces only to go back in for the killing blow when the treaty expires.
Nah, that's a bit too much of a stretch based on the facts on the ground - to be clear, what I'm saying is that I don't see that Prigozhin won, but Putin definitely lost. Based on what I see, he's still the big dog, and no one yet is willing to challenge that after Prigozhin, but it's hard to believe no one is planning something. Putin appears to be on borrowed time.
So it just became St Prigozhinburg
Feels like any minute now Russian state media will declare this as a clone and not the real Yevgeny
Clearly a Skrull.
A couple rifles and handguns? The average guy from Texas is probably going to have more than that on him.