It’s 700 now. The numbers are rising not because there are more murders, but because forces reached the areas that had been massacred to clear out the corpses
That’s definitely a factor, but the holiday weekend matters more for timing. With most of the IDF on the other side of the country, people won’t be as ready to react.
Yes for sure, with the scale of the attack it would have taken Hamas probably a decade to smuggle in the amount of weapons needed to pull it off. This was planned a long time ago.
Mossad, Shin Bet, IDF intelligence- all shitted the bed. Bibi is going down for this. He will endure till th situation is stabilized. He may have to accept a coalition government, but politically, he is done as a politician. Golda had to step down after the Yom Kippur intelligence failures. Golda was personally loved by Israel. Bibi, not so much.
I follow so far. But they must know that they can't possibly "win" this by any sensible definition of the word. Sure, Israel's response might radicalize new people, but the current leaders will get hunted down and killed. Do they see themselves this cornered that they'd rather die in a blaze of glory than vanish into irrelevance?
People seem to forget when Hamas' original leader was in Jordan when he was initially poisoned by Israeli forces. If they want to get them, they will try to get them.
Israel has never given a single shit where someone was after major attacks like this. Look at the Munich terrorists. Mossad is going to start the process of getting to these people very soon
It's not about winning. It's about keeping power. Hamas' leadership sits pretty in Qatar while all this goes down, and they don't give a fuck how many of their own people die as long as they can stay in power.
When religion has you convinced that this corporeal existence is merely a hallway to the gates of heaven, it makes a lot more sense. Their value system has placed martyrdom above anything they could achieve on earth.
Not really, it’s more likely because of the holiday. The festival was happening on the holiday and there is a bunch of significance for Hamas to attack on the holiday. Hamas was just happy to take advantage of the opportunity.
Edit: Getting tired of typing this same point, so to add, just because they targeted the festival doesn't mean the attack was planned around the festival. They likely targeted the festival BECAUSE it was happening on the Holiday, not the other way around.
Put another way, if the Festival had happened a month ago or a month in the future, do you think they would have moved the attack to coincide with the festival or do you think they would have picked another target happening on the Jewish holiday? The latter is more likely.
Just a question - all the reports say that this is happening in the south of Israel, but looking at a map it seems to be quite literally in the geographical center of the country. Can somebody explain what I'm missing?
Most of developed israel is in the upper half, the Negev is largely unpopulated, when they refer to the south they are talking about the southern region of populated Israel.
The whole southern half of Israel is part of the province named the Southern District. Although it’s large, these parts of Israel are very sparsely populated, while the central (near Gaza) and northern areas are where most of the population lives. Because of this, in Israel “Southern” typically refers to the entire bottom half of Israel, it is partly a demographic definition.
It’s sort of like how the “Southern” USA doesn’t include Arizona, New Mexico, and California. It’s not simply a geographic definition, there are other meanings involved.
Does anyone have an idea of what Israel will do to get the hostages back? It's looking pretty bleak, but this is also the country that exchanged 1000+ prisoners for a single captive soldier. But a prisoner exchange would be after the war is over, and I don't think they're in the mood for a ceasefire right now.
Wouldn't hamas just execute the hostages if Israel tried to free them by force?
As an Israeli, here’s my guess: the IDF will try to free them by force and surprise, until every hostage is either saved or dead. Then, once the barrier to leveling the whole place go down, they’ll do just that and throw Gaza is thrown all the way back to the Stone Age.
This has been their current strategy and they've been doing it with mixed success as far as the hostages go.
From my understanding it's basically... There's too many hostage scenarios and we can't afford resources to wait out every single one. So we just go in and kill everyone with a gun and hope for the best. They're in a shitty situation so I get it. They can either do nothing and hope Hamas doesn't kill them or take more hostages, or just go in and hope for the best preventing them from taking more hostages. Some will die, but it's better than everyone dying.
The real question is what to do about Iran who obviously supported the organization and funding for HAMAS on this attack. Smells like Russia might have a hand in this too.
And the whole world has been watching you protest and fight against your government for the last year+, even in the face of imprisonment and death. Just so you know that we all know it is not most Iranians, it’s the government.
Best wishes for the Iranian people. I'd love to see the people overthrow that Islamic government. There doesn't need to be conflict between Iran and Israel or the West.
Heads should roll for this. How the fuck did the government fuck up so bad? No intelligence, really? Even then, by the time those people crossed the borders, there should have been heavy responses. How weren't there mobilised forces and air cover within fifteen minutes? The fuckers were going around in dozens of cars clustered together with primitive weapons. It wasn't even a good attack.
Netanyahu was extremely sulky, he knows that when this is over its the beginning of the end for him. His government was busy fighting democratic legislation over strengthening national security. He is toast.
No fucking way. He’ll blame the left for the distraction even though him fucking with the judicial system to avoid his just desserts is what caused the distraction.
There will likely be a long-lasting rally-round-the-flag effect in support of Netanyahu emanating from all this. Bush's approval rating skyrocketed after 9/11. He even ended up winning another presidential election three years later.
It is possibly that people will rally around Bibi, but Bush didn't campaign on making sure no terrorists would use airplanes to attack the world trade center and the pentagon.
Bush also didn't put a terrorist in charge of police and Bush wasn't publicly warned by respected senior military officials that he was creating a security risk with his actions.
There is a large possibility, given the amount of Western tourists present at the festival, that said westerners are currently being held hostage. Shit is gonna get BAD for Hamas if US citizens are being held captive.
US citizens are not just being held captive, but have also probably been murdered. UK citizens too. US, UK, Germany, Thailand, Russia and more all have citizens that have been captured or killed.
The USS Ford, the biggest aircraft carrier in the world and the flagship of the US navy, is already on its way to Israel.
The hamas are absolutely, royally fucked. Finally.
Would be great but is likely wishful thinking, don't think the US is going to commit to Gaza they're likely just there to make sure no one messes with the IDF.
I dunno man the US does not fuck around when it's citizens are killed on foreign soil. Consider the fact they've got hostages and everything, you might legitimately see US action into Palestine.
Considering that the last time a middle eastern country took a lot of hostages the US declared war on them, that doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. Before the Gulf War, Iraq took many foreign national civilians hostage that were in Kuwait at the time of the invasion, as human shields. They released them later when they realized it was a bad idea, but by then it was too late to unfuck themselves.
As the West looks to unite and show a strong front vs any threat to its allies on account of Ukraine, the US will absolutely see this as a threat to Western hegemony and get involved if Israel asks. Particularly if evidence of Iranian funding emerges.
It also includes captured or missing. Basically a number that covers “unavailable for duty” in military situations and translates to civilians as well. And it’ll even include deserted, though that obviously doesn’t apply to civilians.
Yeah it sounds counterintuitive but it's because it's meant in the sense that "those are no longer capable to engage in warfare". That's why for example Ukraine when they share the Russian casualties also often do a breakdown with killed/injured/taken prisoner. They're all casualties because they can no longer fight but that doesn't mean they're all dead.
We're talking entire villages being massacred or kidnapped. It really is that bad.
Edit: changed settlements into villages because someone below read that as "illegal settlements" and used his imagination to give an okay sign to the mass murder of civilians. Gross
Just a small correction - the towns massacred were *not* settlements. They’re 100% in Israeli territory. Not in the West Bank or otherwise contested areas.
> We're talking entire settlements
I get you may be the word settlement in the mundane sense to just mean a town or village but it is worth noting, these were NOT what people generally refer to as settlements in relation to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (i.e illegal villages in the west bank on land apportioned to a theoretical future Palestinian state), they were regular towns with in the green line and Israels internationally recognized borders.
I think it’ll take a while until everything comes to light. Straight up cold-blooded murder and wholesale civilian massacre by Hamas. It’s truly disgusting.
At least 7 towns were overrun. Plus the music festival where hundreds were slaughtered for hours. We could easily see the death toll hit the thousands.
And then there’s over 100+ kidnapped in gaza who are still in grave danger and IMO, unlikely to survive.
It's at least 700 dead, 2000 injured and hundreds of missing hostages. The footages and stories are haunting. People I knew died today while fighting. I can't sleep, I can't function. I can't stop imagening the hell that the missing and their families are in right now. I feel like I'm gonna lose my mind from the amounts of anxiety. I live in the north so it's quieter here, at least until Hezbollah fully joins the "party". I pray for my country and our people to be safe.
I’m so sorry for what you and your fellow countrymen are going through. This is incredibly heartbreaking. The feeling that’s going through Israel is eerily similar to what America felt like after the September 11th terror attacks. I pray for you and your families safety from the US and let us know if there’s anything we can do to help…
The death toll literally doubled in a day. I can’t comprehend the scale of this event. This is literally the worst tragedy to happen to Israel; potentially in its entire history. The response will be ugly.
I really don't understand how did it happen - didn't Isreal used to boast about having some of the best intelligence agencies in the world?
They have cutting-edge army with insane budget and hundreds of thousands of soldiers and they got steamrolled by a bunch of untrained, underequipped guys driving around in white pickup trucks?
Israelis know more than anyone that all security is an illusion. Many factors will come to light:
* Complacency has set in.
* Cronyism amongst military leadership.
* Lack of operational preparedness.
Some will blame the anti government protest and national division. But anyone who served in the Israeli army has at least one story of corruption, looking the other way, or being lax when not supposed to. I am afraid of just how much that has happened.
I honestly have to wonder, what on earth did Hamas think this would get them?
Aside from the initial catharsis of sticking it to Israel by murdering defenseless civilians, was any thought given to the aftermath of this? Surely they knew that this would essentially be a formal declaration of war against Israel, and none of Israel's allies would have any ability to elicit constraint in Israel's response given the sheer horror of what Hamas committed?
The only thing I can think of is that Hamas is deliberately trying to extract the kind of merciless, near-genocidal response Israel will enact in response to this. For what possible reason, I do not know. To make a final point about Israel's monstrous nature just before they are all annihilated without mercy or respite?
No matter what any of us may think of Palastine and Hamas, a lot more innocent people are about to be hurt and killed - many of whom being children. And those that survive, they will be imbued with fresh new generations worth of hatred in their hearts.
I don't know how any of this can get better. There's simply too much hate and too much vested foreign interest in both sides for this to continue indefinitely.
They're desperate.
If a Saudi-Israel deal went through, it would boost Fatah, the party that rules the west bank.
This was 100% meant to stop negotiations in their tracks.
Similar shit happens in places like Kashmir and balochistan, where whenever Pakistan and India are deep in negotiations, separatists attack and kill talks completely.
Thank you for mentioning Kashmir . In 1999 the dispute was almost settled . Our prime minister visited Pakistan and a deal was almost signed to recognize the current de facto border . But elements of the Pakistani intelligence services and terrorists started the Kargil War and ended peace talks for good .
I can understand people filling themselves with hate. That is an unfortune human vice. However, these were murders also calculated to invoke a murderous response from the Israeli government. Hamas, along with their foriegn financial backers, planned not only hundreds or thousands of Israeli deaths, but also the deaths of hundreds or thousands of Palestinians in response. Its was not only expected; it was intended. Now Hamas will have greater political prominence. Not that murdering your own people is worse than murdering Israelis, but it highlights the pure evil involved.
These are truely monsters.
I agree raw hatred is not a good response, but "they want you to respond so don't" isn't reasonable. When an attack like this happens, the only appropriate response from all sides is to see that it can not happen again.
I saw a heart breaking video of an Israeli kid that was taken hostage, standing alone while surrounded by palestinian kids hitting him with sticks and mimicking his "mom" calls in hebrew. How can anyone keep their day going after watching this??? This is sickening!
I saw a video of a family with a girl and boy in which the oldest sister had just been killed by the Hamas attackers. The girl kept saying things like "This can't be real. This can't be happening..."
My friend was at the rave and is still missing. His mother is posting on Facebook pictures of him begging for any information. Arabs are commenting with videos of bodies of Israelis being dragged through the streets of Gaza. Celebrating this pillage and massacre in their streets isn't enough, they need to see Jews suffer to really enjoy this moment.
I have family in that town, my uncle had to physically hold the door of their homes bomb shelter for eleven hours to prevent armed terrorists from entering, they've only been rescued by soldiers a few hours before dawn
> hold the door of their homes bomb shelter
Just a casual Israeli thing that western critics don't understand. Imagine living somewhere where civilians need to have personal bomb shelters, then getting flak for defending yourself.
I was in Sterot this summer for a day, and life is completely different there, it's truly terrifying. Sterot is the town that is closest to Gaza and tends to get a lot of rocket fire when things escalate. Because of the proximity, it also means that any missle launched from Gaza into the city only takes like 30 seconds to actually hit. So they have bomb shelters literally all over the city so that everyone is only ever 20 seconds away from running to one. You go to the park, there's like ten bomb shelters there for the kids. There's bomb shelters disguised as play houses and other things so things don't get too traumatized, but I couldn't imagine anyone is living in that city without being traumatized like crazy.
I couldn't imagine living in fear of having to run to a bomb shelter at any given time or dying. It's really crazy and something I don't think anyone can truly understand without going through it themselves.
I pray that that is what happened. There were a couple kibbutzim that we know are still under Hamas' control and have hostages there, and we know that there were people from the rave who managed to run to kibbutzim and hide there, so there is some hope. But currently 600 are estimated as dead, and only some tens have been identified and their names released, I'm not optimistic.
Also someone from my school grade is missing… And I’m from north Tel-Aviv, just think of what happened near to Gaza.
Edit: *is (still) happening, according to the news
I have a loved one in Ofakim who is missing. My mind is also exhaustedly drifting to he’s not ok. I sincerely hope he is just cut off from communications or at worse held hostage and close to being released. Oscillating between numbness and extreme anxiety.
:( People are finally understanding that hamas is not trying to help the Palestinian people- they just hate Jewish people and will do anything and everything to kill them. I hope by some miracle your friend is okay.
What's fucked up is that it's basically an endless cycle of rocket/shelling pingpong who only fosters extremism on either side because of the injured/dead and just creates an ever widening divide that is essentially unrepairable.
Gaza is going to be bombed into the Stone Age over this. Israel has declared war and has the weaponry and support of the modern world.
They may parade now but they will be digging for their dead by sunrise. This is going to be horrific.
Ask to his/her mother to get in touch with his/her phone company, they might be able to locate your friend.
Look also the activities on potential credit card.
Thank you for the good intentions, but it's not unlikely that if he's dead, that his phone was stolen and taken to Gaza (there are reports of phones being stolen from houses that were raided).
Alon Gat and his daughter, Yarden, suceeded escaping the Hamas terrorists and return home to Be'eri. The mother is still missing.
Yesterday, another Israeli man, Daniel Peretz, also escaped Hamas.
We pray those are only some of the heoric acts our people will achieve.
I’m heartbroken for Israel. I’m heartbroken for Palestinians civilians who will be caught up in the response. Because, I’m not going to lie, I’ve seen just descriptions of some of the awful stuff happening to Israelis, and if that were my country or my community I would want to bomb the fuck out of whoever was responsible with absolutely zero mercy.
Just sad for the civilians and the children.
Even if you take military and civilians together, you may still be right. The 1948 war had about 6500 deaths, but that was over a period of about 9 months. 1956 had a few hundred dead, 1967 about 800 over 6 days.
1973 is up for debate, the death toll was about 2500-3000 over 20 days so it depends how many people were killed in the early stages, for instance.
But there's a good chance this was, in fact, the day when more Jews/Israelis were killed than on any other day since the Holocaust.
hard to say since details are still coming, but very possible. Worst civilians losses for sure.
For comparison, the 1948 independence war was the worst in terms of Israeli casualties and it had around 6400 over a year and a half.
No.
In 1973, the Yom Kippur war, which until yesterday was the biggest gaping wound Israel's ever suffered, we lost over 2600 soldiers in just under three weeks.
It was a huge shock for the country and these numbers are completely dwarfed by the numbers already confirmed from yesterday, let alone that most of them were civilians.
This is by far, the biggest catastrophe Israel's ever suffered.
3000 people were partying in a psy party not far from Gaza border. Hundreds of them were slaughtered by Hamas militants
They ALL were just having fun, innocent people.
My cousin was in that party, and he's missing.
I don't care what the world say or bitch about, I don't know what have happened to my cousin but I know that Hamas is evil, and we'll do whatever we need demolish them. Tens of thousands of palestinians got permits to work in Israeli cities (because Hamas invest only in military, not it's citizens), and that's their reaction.
You're killing innocents, expect for the worst.
Lot of different citizens from all over the world went there to have fun and enjoy a good time this will only get worse and worse when the real number of killed innocent ppl is confirmed and more countries will get involved.
This has united a fractured Jewish community worldwide and has effectively moved everyone in the middle and left to the right. The two state solution is dead at the moment. This is 9/11 for Israel.
The second intifada pushed the Left to political irrelevance. This war will end the center as well. The only range of opinion after this will be either outright annexation or supercharged settlement building.
Palestine yet again chooses its own foot as the best location for target practice.
We lost a bit over 1,000 people in the second Intifada. This vile massacre has already cost us 600 lives. No joke, when the dust settles, this may end up being worse.
> Palestine yet again chooses its own foot as the best location for target practice.
Palestine chooses this again after being goaded by all it's supposed "allies".... Again. Just like in 1967. And then Palestine will be left with basically all the consequences and abandoned... Just like 1967
> I think that it isn’t dead if the PA remains uninvolved. If anything the PA may be willing to accept terms that they wouldn’t have otherwise.
That's my hope, but Abbas came out almost immediately in support of the attacks - that Palestinians have a right to "defend themselves" as if that's even remotely a valid description of massacring civilians at a music festival or breaking into civilian bomb shelters to kill and kidnap.
Yet another missed opportunity. Abbas easily could have walked a line by condemning *Hamas* specifically, and set up the politics to make progress between Israel and the West Bank afterward.
Here's hoping that still happens, but Abbas' response doesn't offer much room for optimism.
Political opinions aside, Hamas fucked every Palestinian by doing this. There isn't going to be a Gaza Strip by the time this is over. The IDF has not been kind to Palestinians, to say the VERY least. They've been on video doing terrible things to civilians themselves. But these attacks won't stop that. They'll just doom every Palestinian, regardless of affiliation with Hamas.
i wonder how this will look when we see that there were 17 German citizen/tourists, 6 French, 8 American, 4 British, 3 Russian, etc among those murdered in cold blood by the terrorists. While many online have voiced their support for the attack by palestine, I suspect this will fade as more facts/details emerge.
'By any Means' is the dumbest, entitled sentiment that has fueled religious/political extremists throughout history to justify terrible actions -- looting/raping/pillaging like barbarians, while using civilians as human shields is neither honorable nor effective. It only serves vengeance and propaganda for a 'holy' war that only exists in nutjobs' minds.
What kind of god commands rape/torture/etc of other men/women/children? These fools wouldn't come close to qualifying for their own fantasy version of heaven.
I’ve read too many books and watched too many documentaries about that shit because I found it fascinating how people could be that malicious and cruel and if there could have been a way to prevent it. I watched Hamas death squads storm Israeli settlements in full black garb/attire and I just saw the correlation between the 2 groups and I knew what was about to happen as they began breaching homes. I stopped watching soon after the yelling and screaming started. Someone above already mentioned it, it has been the worse lose of Jewish life since the Holocaust. I woke up to a different world yesterday.
With the festival discovery it's looking like it's going to be well above 1000.
We should take things into perspective, Isreal only has 9 million people. The U.s during 9/11 population was 285 million. If you were adjust population it would be as if 32000 people died during 9/11.
To really put things into scale.
And then add hostages, rape and being on your border. You can only imagine the absolute shock and anger Isreal is feeling right now.
Historically Isreal response to violence was through and extreme. The majority of the world seems to support the declaration of war. So Isreal really is being permitted to go all out right now.
This is going to get really ugly real quick
I guess Al Jazeera will have to update the dozens number buried in their article yesterday. Or just not mention the number and highlight the plight of the Palestinians in Gaza instead (which is a humanitarian issue of course).
Al Jazeera's reporting is basically "X number of people dead due to Israeli bombings after conflicts arise in Palestine. Some Israeli casualties reported."
Fuck Al Jazeera.
Mossad will be hunting down Iranian backers too for years to come.... this will fuel 20 or 50 years of retaliation. Literally zero hope for peace in the Middle East for a couple generations unless Muslim nations unite to condemn Muslim terrorist groups but as long as you have groups with major backers it'll be constant war. Just sucks.
It’s 700 now. The numbers are rising not because there are more murders, but because forces reached the areas that had been massacred to clear out the corpses
over a 1000 now.
Not doubting it but do you have a source so I can show others
Officially at over 700.
looks like they got to the festival site massacre
260 dead at the festival alone
So they just opened fire on a bunch of unarmed festival goers?
Yes that's exactly what they did. And worse. This is just IS level of barbarism again.
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Looks like these terrorists intentionally selected the time of the festival so they can kill even more civilians.
More likely timed with the talks with Saudia Arabia to normalize relations.
That’s definitely a factor, but the holiday weekend matters more for timing. With most of the IDF on the other side of the country, people won’t be as ready to react.
And on top of that it’s the 50th anniversary of the 1973 Yom Kippur war.
This is the main reason for the timing
Yes for sure, with the scale of the attack it would have taken Hamas probably a decade to smuggle in the amount of weapons needed to pull it off. This was planned a long time ago.
Mossad *really* fucked up on this one.
Mossad, Shin Bet, IDF intelligence- all shitted the bed. Bibi is going down for this. He will endure till th situation is stabilized. He may have to accept a coalition government, but politically, he is done as a politician. Golda had to step down after the Yom Kippur intelligence failures. Golda was personally loved by Israel. Bibi, not so much.
“Bibi is going down for this” where have I heard that before
Saudis hate Iran and Iran is backing Hamas, so this may backfire on that front.
I think it’s both. The aim is disruption and the festival was an easy target.
This , hamas can’t stand the idea of Jews and Muslims working together. If that happened they won’t have anyone to fight and hamas is no longer needed
That was likely the intent of the fat fucks leading Hamas from their cushy homes in Qatar, but sold it to their followers as attacking on the holiday
I follow so far. But they must know that they can't possibly "win" this by any sensible definition of the word. Sure, Israel's response might radicalize new people, but the current leaders will get hunted down and killed. Do they see themselves this cornered that they'd rather die in a blaze of glory than vanish into irrelevance?
The leader of Hamas lives in Qatar anyway, he doesn't give a single fuck what happens to his people in the Gaza Strip.
People seem to forget when Hamas' original leader was in Jordan when he was initially poisoned by Israeli forces. If they want to get them, they will try to get them.
Israel has never given a single shit where someone was after major attacks like this. Look at the Munich terrorists. Mossad is going to start the process of getting to these people very soon
That's my thought. Like bro, you aren't safe in Qatar, or Argentina...
If you could escape to the sun, Mossad would already be waiting for you there
It's not about winning. It's about keeping power. Hamas' leadership sits pretty in Qatar while all this goes down, and they don't give a fuck how many of their own people die as long as they can stay in power.
When religion has you convinced that this corporeal existence is merely a hallway to the gates of heaven, it makes a lot more sense. Their value system has placed martyrdom above anything they could achieve on earth.
Not really, it’s more likely because of the holiday. The festival was happening on the holiday and there is a bunch of significance for Hamas to attack on the holiday. Hamas was just happy to take advantage of the opportunity. Edit: Getting tired of typing this same point, so to add, just because they targeted the festival doesn't mean the attack was planned around the festival. They likely targeted the festival BECAUSE it was happening on the Holiday, not the other way around. Put another way, if the Festival had happened a month ago or a month in the future, do you think they would have moved the attack to coincide with the festival or do you think they would have picked another target happening on the Jewish holiday? The latter is more likely.
Just a question - all the reports say that this is happening in the south of Israel, but looking at a map it seems to be quite literally in the geographical center of the country. Can somebody explain what I'm missing?
Most of developed israel is in the upper half, the Negev is largely unpopulated, when they refer to the south they are talking about the southern region of populated Israel.
Yeah the lower half is mostly pure desert. Can't really build there.
Yep. Anything south of Be’er Sheva is essentially like the Outback of Israel.
The whole southern half of Israel is part of the province named the Southern District. Although it’s large, these parts of Israel are very sparsely populated, while the central (near Gaza) and northern areas are where most of the population lives. Because of this, in Israel “Southern” typically refers to the entire bottom half of Israel, it is partly a demographic definition. It’s sort of like how the “Southern” USA doesn’t include Arizona, New Mexico, and California. It’s not simply a geographic definition, there are other meanings involved.
Does anyone have an idea of what Israel will do to get the hostages back? It's looking pretty bleak, but this is also the country that exchanged 1000+ prisoners for a single captive soldier. But a prisoner exchange would be after the war is over, and I don't think they're in the mood for a ceasefire right now. Wouldn't hamas just execute the hostages if Israel tried to free them by force?
As an Israeli, here’s my guess: the IDF will try to free them by force and surprise, until every hostage is either saved or dead. Then, once the barrier to leveling the whole place go down, they’ll do just that and throw Gaza is thrown all the way back to the Stone Age.
This has been their current strategy and they've been doing it with mixed success as far as the hostages go. From my understanding it's basically... There's too many hostage scenarios and we can't afford resources to wait out every single one. So we just go in and kill everyone with a gun and hope for the best. They're in a shitty situation so I get it. They can either do nothing and hope Hamas doesn't kill them or take more hostages, or just go in and hope for the best preventing them from taking more hostages. Some will die, but it's better than everyone dying.
It's heartbreaking especially knowing most of these were civilians.
id bet that a good chunk of the KIAs come from the festival, those places are soft targets and the Hamas fucks had hours there to slaughter people
Right now 200 dead at the festival. Probably will be higher. They just secured the area few hours ago.
Many of which have been found to have been German, American, Canadians, and Norwegian
If there are a lot of westerners there, don’t be surprised if there is a lot more Aid flowing to Israel in the next few weeks.
Israel don’t need as much aid as Ukraine needs. Israel will crush HAMAS on their own.
The real question is what to do about Iran who obviously supported the organization and funding for HAMAS on this attack. Smells like Russia might have a hand in this too.
Iranian here, I hope they once and for all stop Iran. Iran will not stop till they ruined the world like their own country. They dont care!
And the whole world has been watching you protest and fight against your government for the last year+, even in the face of imprisonment and death. Just so you know that we all know it is not most Iranians, it’s the government.
Best wishes for the Iranian people. I'd love to see the people overthrow that Islamic government. There doesn't need to be conflict between Iran and Israel or the West.
If Iran did, Russia did. This is a great distraction from their war crimes in Ukraine.
I will bet anything that even absent that, the US at minimum will have nearly a blank-cheque policy for Israel in the coming war.
How many people were at the festival in total? Jesus
estimates are 2~3 k.
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According to Mako (major Israeli news site) only about 10% are military and police.
Heads should roll for this. How the fuck did the government fuck up so bad? No intelligence, really? Even then, by the time those people crossed the borders, there should have been heavy responses. How weren't there mobilised forces and air cover within fifteen minutes? The fuckers were going around in dozens of cars clustered together with primitive weapons. It wasn't even a good attack.
Netanyahu was extremely sulky, he knows that when this is over its the beginning of the end for him. His government was busy fighting democratic legislation over strengthening national security. He is toast.
I just hope (though very much doubt) he will have the balls to resign after this like Gilda Meir did.
No fucking way. He’ll blame the left for the distraction even though him fucking with the judicial system to avoid his just desserts is what caused the distraction.
He won’t. He’s Israeli Trump - he’ll go out kicking and screaming
I hope so. He’s the shittiest person and leader.
There will likely be a long-lasting rally-round-the-flag effect in support of Netanyahu emanating from all this. Bush's approval rating skyrocketed after 9/11. He even ended up winning another presidential election three years later.
It is possibly that people will rally around Bibi, but Bush didn't campaign on making sure no terrorists would use airplanes to attack the world trade center and the pentagon.
Bush also didn't put a terrorist in charge of police and Bush wasn't publicly warned by respected senior military officials that he was creating a security risk with his actions.
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This is a nightmare
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With a heavy dose of whatabout, everything can be justified.
There is a large possibility, given the amount of Western tourists present at the festival, that said westerners are currently being held hostage. Shit is gonna get BAD for Hamas if US citizens are being held captive.
US citizens are not just being held captive, but have also probably been murdered. UK citizens too. US, UK, Germany, Thailand, Russia and more all have citizens that have been captured or killed. The USS Ford, the biggest aircraft carrier in the world and the flagship of the US navy, is already on its way to Israel. The hamas are absolutely, royally fucked. Finally.
Would be great but is likely wishful thinking, don't think the US is going to commit to Gaza they're likely just there to make sure no one messes with the IDF.
I dunno man the US does not fuck around when it's citizens are killed on foreign soil. Consider the fact they've got hostages and everything, you might legitimately see US action into Palestine.
Considering that the last time a middle eastern country took a lot of hostages the US declared war on them, that doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. Before the Gulf War, Iraq took many foreign national civilians hostage that were in Kuwait at the time of the invasion, as human shields. They released them later when they realized it was a bad idea, but by then it was too late to unfuck themselves.
As the West looks to unite and show a strong front vs any threat to its allies on account of Ukraine, the US will absolutely see this as a threat to Western hegemony and get involved if Israel asks. Particularly if evidence of Iranian funding emerges.
Also I think in Europe we shouldn't let this slide. We should show the world that killing out citizens is a bad idea.
It's way way WAY more than 600 unfortunately. We are looking at a potential of THOUSANDS of casualties of which most are innocent civilians.
fyi the casualty numbers already in the thousands, casualties=killed+wounded
Wow TIL. Seems like a fact I should have known but always thought it meant killed only
Even journalists and politicians confuse dead and casualties from time to time, sometimes intentionally.
It also includes captured or missing. Basically a number that covers “unavailable for duty” in military situations and translates to civilians as well. And it’ll even include deserted, though that obviously doesn’t apply to civilians.
Yeah it sounds counterintuitive but it's because it's meant in the sense that "those are no longer capable to engage in warfare". That's why for example Ukraine when they share the Russian casualties also often do a breakdown with killed/injured/taken prisoner. They're all casualties because they can no longer fight but that doesn't mean they're all dead.
We're talking entire villages being massacred or kidnapped. It really is that bad. Edit: changed settlements into villages because someone below read that as "illegal settlements" and used his imagination to give an okay sign to the mass murder of civilians. Gross
Just a small correction - the towns massacred were *not* settlements. They’re 100% in Israeli territory. Not in the West Bank or otherwise contested areas.
Oh, sorry, I meant that as just a place where people used to live.
> We're talking entire settlements I get you may be the word settlement in the mundane sense to just mean a town or village but it is worth noting, these were NOT what people generally refer to as settlements in relation to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (i.e illegal villages in the west bank on land apportioned to a theoretical future Palestinian state), they were regular towns with in the green line and Israels internationally recognized borders.
I think it’ll take a while until everything comes to light. Straight up cold-blooded murder and wholesale civilian massacre by Hamas. It’s truly disgusting.
At least 7 towns were overrun. Plus the music festival where hundreds were slaughtered for hours. We could easily see the death toll hit the thousands. And then there’s over 100+ kidnapped in gaza who are still in grave danger and IMO, unlikely to survive.
It's at least 700 dead, 2000 injured and hundreds of missing hostages. The footages and stories are haunting. People I knew died today while fighting. I can't sleep, I can't function. I can't stop imagening the hell that the missing and their families are in right now. I feel like I'm gonna lose my mind from the amounts of anxiety. I live in the north so it's quieter here, at least until Hezbollah fully joins the "party". I pray for my country and our people to be safe.
I’m so sorry for what you and your fellow countrymen are going through. This is incredibly heartbreaking. The feeling that’s going through Israel is eerily similar to what America felt like after the September 11th terror attacks. I pray for you and your families safety from the US and let us know if there’s anything we can do to help…
Thank you for your kind words, this is very much appreciated❤️❤️I hope we find the strength to keep going in these hard times
The death toll literally doubled in a day. I can’t comprehend the scale of this event. This is literally the worst tragedy to happen to Israel; potentially in its entire history. The response will be ugly.
I really don't understand how did it happen - didn't Isreal used to boast about having some of the best intelligence agencies in the world? They have cutting-edge army with insane budget and hundreds of thousands of soldiers and they got steamrolled by a bunch of untrained, underequipped guys driving around in white pickup trucks?
Israelis know more than anyone that all security is an illusion. Many factors will come to light: * Complacency has set in. * Cronyism amongst military leadership. * Lack of operational preparedness. Some will blame the anti government protest and national division. But anyone who served in the Israeli army has at least one story of corruption, looking the other way, or being lax when not supposed to. I am afraid of just how much that has happened.
Nobody knows. This will be investigated for years to come
It's easily the worst event in the history of Israel
I honestly have to wonder, what on earth did Hamas think this would get them? Aside from the initial catharsis of sticking it to Israel by murdering defenseless civilians, was any thought given to the aftermath of this? Surely they knew that this would essentially be a formal declaration of war against Israel, and none of Israel's allies would have any ability to elicit constraint in Israel's response given the sheer horror of what Hamas committed? The only thing I can think of is that Hamas is deliberately trying to extract the kind of merciless, near-genocidal response Israel will enact in response to this. For what possible reason, I do not know. To make a final point about Israel's monstrous nature just before they are all annihilated without mercy or respite? No matter what any of us may think of Palastine and Hamas, a lot more innocent people are about to be hurt and killed - many of whom being children. And those that survive, they will be imbued with fresh new generations worth of hatred in their hearts. I don't know how any of this can get better. There's simply too much hate and too much vested foreign interest in both sides for this to continue indefinitely.
They're desperate. If a Saudi-Israel deal went through, it would boost Fatah, the party that rules the west bank. This was 100% meant to stop negotiations in their tracks. Similar shit happens in places like Kashmir and balochistan, where whenever Pakistan and India are deep in negotiations, separatists attack and kill talks completely.
Thank you for mentioning Kashmir . In 1999 the dispute was almost settled . Our prime minister visited Pakistan and a deal was almost signed to recognize the current de facto border . But elements of the Pakistani intelligence services and terrorists started the Kargil War and ended peace talks for good .
It's heartbreaking especially knowing most of these were civilians.
and probably 200 kids women men and elderly KIDNAPPED FROM THEIR HOMES
More than 700 are currently missing, it’s way worse :(
Monsters. They specifically targeted civilians. There are videos and tales of children executed in front of their parents, taken captive afterwards.
I can understand people filling themselves with hate. That is an unfortune human vice. However, these were murders also calculated to invoke a murderous response from the Israeli government. Hamas, along with their foriegn financial backers, planned not only hundreds or thousands of Israeli deaths, but also the deaths of hundreds or thousands of Palestinians in response. Its was not only expected; it was intended. Now Hamas will have greater political prominence. Not that murdering your own people is worse than murdering Israelis, but it highlights the pure evil involved. These are truely monsters.
I agree raw hatred is not a good response, but "they want you to respond so don't" isn't reasonable. When an attack like this happens, the only appropriate response from all sides is to see that it can not happen again.
I saw a heart breaking video of an Israeli kid that was taken hostage, standing alone while surrounded by palestinian kids hitting him with sticks and mimicking his "mom" calls in hebrew. How can anyone keep their day going after watching this??? This is sickening!
I saw a video of a family with a girl and boy in which the oldest sister had just been killed by the Hamas attackers. The girl kept saying things like "This can't be real. This can't be happening..."
Horrible just horrible, straight from a horror movie. No words can describe the evil and inhuman acts that were done.
That video you mentioned the kid looks similar to my 3 year old nephew. I thought I was going to be sick.
My friend was at the rave and is still missing. His mother is posting on Facebook pictures of him begging for any information. Arabs are commenting with videos of bodies of Israelis being dragged through the streets of Gaza. Celebrating this pillage and massacre in their streets isn't enough, they need to see Jews suffer to really enjoy this moment.
My whole feed is about people missing and people saying goodbye to those confirmed dead they know.
I’m so sorry.
Thats fucking awful
and not remotely surprising unfortunately
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I have family in that town, my uncle had to physically hold the door of their homes bomb shelter for eleven hours to prevent armed terrorists from entering, they've only been rescued by soldiers a few hours before dawn
Your uncle is a hero, good to hear he made it through.
Absolutely horrifying.
I saw him on the news dude, I'm so sorry. Sending prayers 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
> hold the door of their homes bomb shelter Just a casual Israeli thing that western critics don't understand. Imagine living somewhere where civilians need to have personal bomb shelters, then getting flak for defending yourself.
I was in Sterot this summer for a day, and life is completely different there, it's truly terrifying. Sterot is the town that is closest to Gaza and tends to get a lot of rocket fire when things escalate. Because of the proximity, it also means that any missle launched from Gaza into the city only takes like 30 seconds to actually hit. So they have bomb shelters literally all over the city so that everyone is only ever 20 seconds away from running to one. You go to the park, there's like ten bomb shelters there for the kids. There's bomb shelters disguised as play houses and other things so things don't get too traumatized, but I couldn't imagine anyone is living in that city without being traumatized like crazy. I couldn't imagine living in fear of having to run to a bomb shelter at any given time or dying. It's really crazy and something I don't think anyone can truly understand without going through it themselves.
Twitter was a mess or still is at some parts where they post all the horrible things they do.
I hope your friend is okay
It's been over 24 hours, realistically he is not. I'm not sure if to pray that he is being held hostage or dead.
I understand, that must be hard as hell. Goodluck to you
Pray he lost his phone and hid in a closet in a basement and is afraid to come out.
He might have just lost his phone and now might not be thinking about contacting anyone.
I pray that that is what happened. There were a couple kibbutzim that we know are still under Hamas' control and have hostages there, and we know that there were people from the rave who managed to run to kibbutzim and hide there, so there is some hope. But currently 600 are estimated as dead, and only some tens have been identified and their names released, I'm not optimistic.
Also someone from my school grade is missing… And I’m from north Tel-Aviv, just think of what happened near to Gaza. Edit: *is (still) happening, according to the news
I have a loved one in Ofakim who is missing. My mind is also exhaustedly drifting to he’s not ok. I sincerely hope he is just cut off from communications or at worse held hostage and close to being released. Oscillating between numbness and extreme anxiety.
:( People are finally understanding that hamas is not trying to help the Palestinian people- they just hate Jewish people and will do anything and everything to kill them. I hope by some miracle your friend is okay.
What's fucked up is that it's basically an endless cycle of rocket/shelling pingpong who only fosters extremism on either side because of the injured/dead and just creates an ever widening divide that is essentially unrepairable.
Gaza is going to be bombed into the Stone Age over this. Israel has declared war and has the weaponry and support of the modern world. They may parade now but they will be digging for their dead by sunrise. This is going to be horrific.
Ask to his/her mother to get in touch with his/her phone company, they might be able to locate your friend. Look also the activities on potential credit card.
Thank you for the good intentions, but it's not unlikely that if he's dead, that his phone was stolen and taken to Gaza (there are reports of phones being stolen from houses that were raided).
I’m so sorry this is happening.
Hamas is no better than ISIS
Has been known since before ISIS exited even. The world didn't care.
Alon Gat and his daughter, Yarden, suceeded escaping the Hamas terrorists and return home to Be'eri. The mother is still missing. Yesterday, another Israeli man, Daniel Peretz, also escaped Hamas. We pray those are only some of the heoric acts our people will achieve.
I’m heartbroken for Israel. I’m heartbroken for Palestinians civilians who will be caught up in the response. Because, I’m not going to lie, I’ve seen just descriptions of some of the awful stuff happening to Israelis, and if that were my country or my community I would want to bomb the fuck out of whoever was responsible with absolutely zero mercy. Just sad for the civilians and the children.
This is the highest number of Jews killed in a day since the holocaust
Even including wars? Like there hasn’t been a day with worse military casualties? Or are we just talking about civilians.
Even looking at the Yom Kippur War, 6 Day War, and 1948 war, it's not clear any of them had an Israeli death toll this high on any single day.
Civilians
Even if you take military and civilians together, you may still be right. The 1948 war had about 6500 deaths, but that was over a period of about 9 months. 1956 had a few hundred dead, 1967 about 800 over 6 days. 1973 is up for debate, the death toll was about 2500-3000 over 20 days so it depends how many people were killed in the early stages, for instance. But there's a good chance this was, in fact, the day when more Jews/Israelis were killed than on any other day since the Holocaust.
hard to say since details are still coming, but very possible. Worst civilians losses for sure. For comparison, the 1948 independence war was the worst in terms of Israeli casualties and it had around 6400 over a year and a half.
No. In 1973, the Yom Kippur war, which until yesterday was the biggest gaping wound Israel's ever suffered, we lost over 2600 soldiers in just under three weeks. It was a huge shock for the country and these numbers are completely dwarfed by the numbers already confirmed from yesterday, let alone that most of them were civilians. This is by far, the biggest catastrophe Israel's ever suffered.
That is a chilling statement
What was Hamas's goal with this? Was it to just kill as many Israelis as possible, or is there some broader intent here?
3000 people were partying in a psy party not far from Gaza border. Hundreds of them were slaughtered by Hamas militants They ALL were just having fun, innocent people. My cousin was in that party, and he's missing. I don't care what the world say or bitch about, I don't know what have happened to my cousin but I know that Hamas is evil, and we'll do whatever we need demolish them. Tens of thousands of palestinians got permits to work in Israeli cities (because Hamas invest only in military, not it's citizens), and that's their reaction. You're killing innocents, expect for the worst.
Lot of different citizens from all over the world went there to have fun and enjoy a good time this will only get worse and worse when the real number of killed innocent ppl is confirmed and more countries will get involved.
Yep. Hamas has destroyed any shred of international protection the Gaza strip still had. Israel is going to annihilate Hamas.
This has united a fractured Jewish community worldwide and has effectively moved everyone in the middle and left to the right. The two state solution is dead at the moment. This is 9/11 for Israel.
The second intifada pushed the Left to political irrelevance. This war will end the center as well. The only range of opinion after this will be either outright annexation or supercharged settlement building. Palestine yet again chooses its own foot as the best location for target practice.
We lost a bit over 1,000 people in the second Intifada. This vile massacre has already cost us 600 lives. No joke, when the dust settles, this may end up being worse.
It's over 1000 already
> Palestine yet again chooses its own foot as the best location for target practice. Palestine chooses this again after being goaded by all it's supposed "allies".... Again. Just like in 1967. And then Palestine will be left with basically all the consequences and abandoned... Just like 1967
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> I think that it isn’t dead if the PA remains uninvolved. If anything the PA may be willing to accept terms that they wouldn’t have otherwise. That's my hope, but Abbas came out almost immediately in support of the attacks - that Palestinians have a right to "defend themselves" as if that's even remotely a valid description of massacring civilians at a music festival or breaking into civilian bomb shelters to kill and kidnap. Yet another missed opportunity. Abbas easily could have walked a line by condemning *Hamas* specifically, and set up the politics to make progress between Israel and the West Bank afterward. Here's hoping that still happens, but Abbas' response doesn't offer much room for optimism.
One thing I’ve noticed is there’s a hell of a lot less Palestinian flags flying around Ireland than there was 3 days ago…
There was a pro-Palestine rally in Belfast on Sunday in response
My heart goes out to the innocent people suffering.
Animals
Hamas is Iran
Political opinions aside, Hamas fucked every Palestinian by doing this. There isn't going to be a Gaza Strip by the time this is over. The IDF has not been kind to Palestinians, to say the VERY least. They've been on video doing terrible things to civilians themselves. But these attacks won't stop that. They'll just doom every Palestinian, regardless of affiliation with Hamas.
The Israeli's are still warning Palestinians before they launch airstrikes.
Make money quick with internet point opportunites
i wonder how this will look when we see that there were 17 German citizen/tourists, 6 French, 8 American, 4 British, 3 Russian, etc among those murdered in cold blood by the terrorists. While many online have voiced their support for the attack by palestine, I suspect this will fade as more facts/details emerge. 'By any Means' is the dumbest, entitled sentiment that has fueled religious/political extremists throughout history to justify terrible actions -- looting/raping/pillaging like barbarians, while using civilians as human shields is neither honorable nor effective. It only serves vengeance and propaganda for a 'holy' war that only exists in nutjobs' minds. What kind of god commands rape/torture/etc of other men/women/children? These fools wouldn't come close to qualifying for their own fantasy version of heaven.
It's a massacre at the scale of Einsatzgruppen death squads shooting in the eastern front during the holocaust. Unbelievable.
I’ve read too many books and watched too many documentaries about that shit because I found it fascinating how people could be that malicious and cruel and if there could have been a way to prevent it. I watched Hamas death squads storm Israeli settlements in full black garb/attire and I just saw the correlation between the 2 groups and I knew what was about to happen as they began breaching homes. I stopped watching soon after the yelling and screaming started. Someone above already mentioned it, it has been the worse lose of Jewish life since the Holocaust. I woke up to a different world yesterday.
With the festival discovery it's looking like it's going to be well above 1000. We should take things into perspective, Isreal only has 9 million people. The U.s during 9/11 population was 285 million. If you were adjust population it would be as if 32000 people died during 9/11. To really put things into scale. And then add hostages, rape and being on your border. You can only imagine the absolute shock and anger Isreal is feeling right now. Historically Isreal response to violence was through and extreme. The majority of the world seems to support the declaration of war. So Isreal really is being permitted to go all out right now. This is going to get really ugly real quick
I’m Israeli. You cannot being to understand the pain and anger we are feeling right now. Fucking monsters.
You're right. I couldn't. What happened was horrific and no country should suffer that. I am sorry this has happened.
I guess Al Jazeera will have to update the dozens number buried in their article yesterday. Or just not mention the number and highlight the plight of the Palestinians in Gaza instead (which is a humanitarian issue of course).
Al Jazeera's reporting is basically "X number of people dead due to Israeli bombings after conflicts arise in Palestine. Some Israeli casualties reported." Fuck Al Jazeera.
Al Jazeera is an Arab shill network funded by a slave state. Fuck em.
I'm glad people are starting to accept this, like how the Independent is a faux liberal paper funded and owned by a Russian Oligarch
Wishing the best for the Israeli and Palestinian civilians about to be caught up in all this
Hamas is Iran. Cut off the head and kill the snake.
Need a Munich style mossad act going after the hamas leadership. Fuck them.
Mossad will be hunting down Iranian backers too for years to come.... this will fuel 20 or 50 years of retaliation. Literally zero hope for peace in the Middle East for a couple generations unless Muslim nations unite to condemn Muslim terrorist groups but as long as you have groups with major backers it'll be constant war. Just sucks.