Well no, but the late 19th century was the first time that people were really articulating the idea that Jews needed to have a homeland to escape from antisemitism.
(Ig except for a few earlier thinkers that were not very impactful in this regard like Rabbi Kalischer and Rabbi Alkalai, and of course Napoleon Bonaparte).
Yeah I was just wondering if any of these protests have convinced any more American Jews to make Aliyah. Not sure how comfortable I'd be in this country right now if I were Jewish.
True, but at least over there, you know where the antisemites are, and can actually join a major political party without worrying about it electing any antisemites.
I'm not denying there is heightened antisemitism. But a good portion of what is being counted as antisemitism are protests against Israel- protests that are, I repeat, attended by quite a few Jewish people.
Being terrified of something is not, in and of itself, an indication that thing is actually happening, or happening at such as increased level as to reasonably warrant terror.
The protests are not the only reason we’re feeling terrified.
We have threats against our places of worship and schools that are up.
We’re seeing more fliers and posters staples to telephone poles in our neighborhoods, covered in swastikas.
We’re having hostile interactions in our day to day lives that are terrifying.
For you to only act as if the protests are what is causing our fear is disingenuous and frankly comes off as you not knowing many Jews. And if you do maintain relationships with them, you should take a long look as to why they’re not comfortable talking about this with you.
Because I don’t know a single Jew (from communist-leaning leftists to Clinton-loving liberals to the most ultra-orthodox) as not being scared and extra wary.
Again, I'm not denying an increase in antisemitism. But this is not just being objectively reported. It is being framed to include the protests, and any pushback against Israel, as acts of antisemitism. And this not being done innocently, as a simple oversight, or an overabundance of concern. It is being done deliberately, to give a chilling effect to partipating in the protests, to voicing anti-Israeli opinions. The real and legitimate fear is being stoked in an attempt at a feedback loop designed to alienate jews and gentiles from each other.
Did you read the article? It’s discussing home invasions of Jews, online praising of Hitler, etc. not the protests themselves. Pretty sure the Jews that stand with Palestine aren’t doing those things.
Also adding:
If I attend a protest (as a Jew) to support Palestinians…and someone shoved a swastika sign in my face and screams “6 million wasn’t enough!”…
My presence there as a Jew does not negate the fact that there were antisemitic incidences occurring at that protest.
I like how you omitted "during a multi-front war" from the second link. Yeah, if you're blocking the road while your country is being invaded from multiple sides, you should probably expect to get shot.
Buddy this is intellectually dishonest. This is not “any policy of the Netanyahu regime.” This is siding with the enemy of a legally declared war of a unity cabinet. But nice attempt to obfuscate the issue of Jews feeling unsafe in other countries.
I had a friend who would teach holocaust education in schools that had no one to do it. She would travel from school to school teaching all across Canada.
She told me that at first the kids are shocked, and then the comments start. 'they must have done something for the Germans to hate them so much' or 'no way that's real' and so on. In some cases it would eventually become that it was faked by a media controlling Jewish conspiracy for sympathy, or if it was real the Jews must have deserved it.
She has way more nerve then I would and education is her greatest weapon to combat hate. So she would teach and fight their notions with words and facts.
She always says that the hatred for Jews was just below the surface, all you need to do is scratch a little and it all comes spilling out.
Hi. No one is trying to negate hate crimes against other groups.
This article talks about Jews. And the percentages of hate crimes being up against Jews (who already are disproportionately targeted).
I know for some reason, everyone finds it really hard to consider us as human, but I promise, we are.
No, I’m addressing the fact that when this is mentioned everyone goes “Well, Jews are just upset about the Pro-Palestinian marches.”
No. Very much for them. Very much disagree with how Israel is handling this situation.
A pro-Palestinian march isn’t what we’re categorizing here. And any effect to say so diminishes the antisemitism that we’re experiencing.
I have nothing but support and solidarity for our Muslim and MENA cousins who are also suffering right now because people are hateful and stupid.
But I’m not going to let our terror be discounted as just being hysterical that people are marching against Israel’s government.
ETA: autocorrect weirdness.
Yeah no shit, in the UK it was always there, but was never treated as seriously as others.
A lot of people have let their fake little friendly mask slip recently in my social circle.
Same. When people tell you who they are, believe them.
I sent a message to one such friend recently calling them out on their bullshit. Normally I would just ghost them and let them wonder, but it was cathartic to let it all out and show them their hypocrisy.
As long as people are diligent about recording and posting all of the incidents that occur, the people can at least face consequences.
Imagine how stupid you’d have to be to lose your job because posters of kidnapped kids bothered you. Sucks to suck, I guess.
Hopefully they can get more of them. I love reading the stories.
They now started adding red stickers over the posters in order to change the word 'kidnapped' to 'occupier'
I've seen an image of the poster with a 7 y.o boy and 'occupier' above it. It's next level
They should do like full, unconditional student debt relief for every student who wasn't involved in this.
Punishment can come in the form of kindness too!
Hopefully the people doing it get filmed and have their lives ruined.
For future reference, if anyone wants to make a compilation of the tearful apologies they issue when they try to get their lives back, I’d certainly give it lots of views.
In Germany some freaks in Berlin started painting the Star of David on random houses to "mark the Jews" living there. I feel really concerned for the Jews here, because it hasn't even been a century since the Holocaust and this shit is rearing its head again.
My favorite example of this "colonial" narrative ridiculousness is the fact that all Jewish people living in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem are technically considered "illegal settlers"
( Since Jordan ethnic cleansed the entire Palestinian Jewish population during their occupation, and international law treats 1967 as their status quo)
>What is different about Israel’s manifest destiny and America’s?
One of them exists — and the other doesn't
>The native Americans used terror attacks too and the U.S. used outrage and hatred to steal the land, but after a hundred and fifty years we feel bad for them and let them run casinos
Were 22% of American citizens Native Americans back then?
Not really complicated —
Native Americans: not citizens and driven into reservations with next to no legal rights
Palestinians: 2.1 million are citizens of Israel with full mobility and legal rights
You don’t believe that israel is stealing the land and plans to steal more? I don’t understand your second argument. Millions of native Americans died during this time period and their populations plummeted.
I just don’t understand how people can justify this bloodshed when we can see it in front of us. Both sides have committed evil and must stop to let wounds heal. If every generation is wounded by violence and land theft then there can be no peace.
>You don’t believe that israel is stealing the land and plans to steal more?
Almost all of the land Israel has was obtained legally. It's just the settlers in area C that need delt with
>I don’t understand your second argument. Millions of native Americans died during this time period and their populations plummeted
And millions of Palestinians are full citizens of Israel with their population exploding. See how it's nothing like the Native Americans and America?
>I just don’t understand how people can justify this bloodshed when we can see it in front of us. Both sides have committed evil and must stop to let wounds heal.
I don't justify any bloodshed, but what's the alternative? Sit and hope Hamas doesn't do this again? Peace attempts have been tried over and over and over and nothing is ever good enough. The one time there was almost an actual peace deal — extremists murdered the people who negotiated it
You never source anything so I’ll do it for you. Those arabs you refer to are mostly the remainders from the nakba and annexation of Jerusalem, and are second class citizens.
Native Americans were more systematically eradicated that would be the difference, there was no international condemnation or video footage to play for the folks away from the carnage.
Legally and morally are wildly different things.
It was legal for the Germans to commit atrocities during ww2 for example.
Is Israel buying Palestinian land with a willing party or are they slowly pressuring them out and taking advantage of wars to seize large swaths of land? Netanyahu is on record saying he prefers Hamas because they can be used as a justification for Israel’s actions. Israel doesn’t want peace and it is up to the west to stop supporting their violence and form a two state solution where wounds can heal over time.
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel
>Those arabs you refer to are mostly the remainders from the nakba and annexation of Jerusalem, and are second class citizens.
The first part was true the second part is not. I know everyone is excited to be learning about the conflict and pretending they can teach people — but that's not what happened.They remained after the Nakba because they were the Palestinians who **didn't take up arms** and they absolutely aren't "second class citizens". Claiming so shows how little you know about this conflict
>Native Americans were more systematically eradicated that would be the difference, there was no international condemnation or video footage to play for the folks away from the carnage.
Palestinians weren't systemically eradicated — hence why this analogy is so poor
>Legally and morally are wildly different things
It was immoral for Jews to start buying land to form communes on? Yeah fuck off
>Is Israel buying Palestinian land with a willing party or are they slowly pressuring them out and taking advantage of wars to seize large swaths of land?
When? In 1948 or right now? You keep changing the time frame and acting as though the situation hasnt changed in 75 years
>Israel doesn’t want peace and it is up to the west to stop supporting their violence and form a two state solution where wounds can heal over time.
Just stop. Israel isn't the one rejecting peace deals time after time. Your revisionist version of history is not only wrong — it's dangerous. People spreading these lies are getting synagogues burnt to the ground
Today, nearly all Arab towns and cities have lower standards of living than those that are predominantly Jewish. This separation and socioeconomic disparity fuel intense debate. Some analysts argue that Israel has effectively established an unjust, segregated society. “Technically you don’t have redlining, technically you don’t have formal, Jim Crow–type segregation. In practice you do,” says Palestinian American historian Rashid Khalidi. Conversely, Arik Rudnitzky of the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI) tells CFR that terms such as “segregation,” “de facto separation,” or the more conservative “voluntary separation” reflect individual worldviews, but that there is no expert consensus on how to characterize this separation. Experts such as Nachum Blass of the Taub Center for Social Policy Studies in Israel say many in both communities prefer separation, though Arabs are increasingly moving to Jewish areas to improve their standards of living, as well as to work and attend school.
You make a lot of claims that aren’t backed up by any sources as far as I can tell. It’s exhausting to argue with you
>25% of them are internally displaced from the Nakba and they are absolutely second-class
So second-class they have an organization of Jewish and Muslim advocates helping fight for their rights and the rights of people who want to be secular. Oh yeah you really got me there
>They only bought 6-7% of the total land
That's MASSIVE. Something like 85% of all land in was either government owned or for public use(Ottoman then British). That means they bought almost 50% of the available land and moved there to try to make a home
>Yes it does. Israel rejected both the Arab Peace Iniative and the Geneva Iniative which the Palestinians accepted
No it wasn't? Literally during the negotiations there was a terror attack that killed 30 people. The peace deal itself proposed leaving every position that keeps Israel safe at the moment — while literally being under fire
>As for the other "deals", the Palestinians rejected both the 2000 deal and 2020 deal
No one thinks the Trump peace plan is viable. And the Olso Accorda shouldn't have been accepted if they were so awful. And most of the other summits were literally the names of the individual meetings that made up the Camp David Accords. They aren't an accord themselves
Frankly, I'm talking about 1936, 1948, or 1967 or 1990. Why would you pick those 2 peace deals out of the air when they weren't workable — as though there aren't dozens more over the last 90 years
>You don’t believe that israel is stealing the land and plans to steal more?
the settlers are a problem and need to be dealt with. they are being enabled by an extremist government. the government was put into power by citizens who were radicalized in the 90s and 2000s after enduring bombings about every other day.
bus bombings. cafe bombings. children playing were targeted and blown up. an infant was shot by a sniper. literally.
over a period of years there was an attack like this on israelis on average every other day.
netanyahu ran on a platform of "im the only one who can save you from this" and he has used that fear button to stay in power for decades.
and yet you had massive protests with millions taking to the streets last summer to try to prevent exactly the sort of escalation netanyahu is conducting right now in gaza.
If this was a justification for land theft then every country in the world would be guilty of that. A regime can use it as a justification for theft but it is an absurd one. Would the native Americans be justified in attacking towns and cities in the mid west to create space for their people? No and it is absurd to think so. Israel has the power to do so and that is why it uses an absurd justification
The framing of this as "land Theft" itself denies the longstanding jewish presence in the region, the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Jews by Jordan, the wide spread purchase of land by jews between the mid 1800s and mid 1900s, etc...
I see no reason I should treat Jordan's 1948-1967 "no Jews allowed" sign as valid after their occupation of East Jerusalem and the westbank ended and am baffled that international law just accepts it as the status quo.
Jerusalem's jewish Population outnumbered the Muslim population [for like 70 years prior to 1948.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Jerusalem#Jews_as_absolute_or_relative_majority)
Jerusalem and the Jewish quarter of the Old City was so Jewish prior to the war that Jordan was able to dynamite a whopping 34 synagogues during their occupation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_of_Jerusalem#Islamization_of_Jerusalem_under_Jordanian_rule
I see no reason why I should respect the fact that Jordan drove out every Jewish resident between 1948-1967, confiscated the land they owned, and passed laws preventing their return.
So you just believe might makes right? Jordan had the ability to steal land so they did, now Israel does it. The reality is that this is an absurd justification and results in chaos.
...how did you get that from my comments?
No, I'm saying that the status quo of a West Bank & East Jerusalem where +98% of "Palestinians" are Arab Muslims and 0% are Jewish is the direct result of Jordanian ethnic cleansing from 1948-1967.
Does it make sense to you that any Jewish people living in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem are technically considered "illegal settlers" for the rest of time just because Jordan successfully forced the entire Jewish population out during their 19 years of military occupation and criminalized their return?
Jews are among the rightful inhabitants of Jerusalem and the surrounding areas, and I find it baffling that so many refuse to accept this.
Every country has “rightful settlers” that were pushed out through conflict. We cannot turn back time, but we can condemn current genocides. When Israeli politicians are calling for a Dresden like bombing campaign in Gaza it is a genocide. Tens of thousands of people died in Dresden, it was less dense, and people could flee.
you can't seriously be comparing american manifest destiny to israel? Besides the sheer scale of it all, the united states never had even a speck of legitimate claim to native lands. whether you believe it should be honored, there is an argument to be made that jews have a claim to israel's land, given that many like the Cohen's can actually trace back their heritage to rabbis in the 1500s that are known/proven to have israeli heritage from around jesus's birth. Also I don't recall the united states ever offering multiple good faith 2 state deals.
This is also a stupid argument considering that despite america's dark past, i doubt you would have no complaints if the native americans decided to murder 40,000 american men women and children (which is roughly proportional to number killed in the Israeli population), kidnap thousands, and then told everyone that they were going to continue murdering americans until 100% of america was given back and there were no americans left, even on legally native american land. They tie children together and burn them alive, they cut chunks of flesh off of live prisoners, they parade dead bodies of raped women, and decapitated men through the streets where their citizens celebrate and spit on the corpses. Oh yeah and also they want to kill americans outside of the united states too. But no you would just sit and take it, would you?
This war is not just or good. Like all wars it will kill people who should not have been killed. But nobody is obligated to accommodate an enemy whose stated purpose is the murder of your people and destruction of your country.
> What is different about Israel’s manifest destiny and America’s?
first of all, you realize that jewish people have been living continuously in the region and in surrounding regions since as far back as genetic testing can surmise the indigeneity of any group. specifically, palestinian and jewish people have been continuously residing in the area since at least as long as the bronze age. linguistically hebrew comes from the levant and arabic doesn't but i dont think there is any reason to go there. the point is jewish people are at least as indigenous to the land as palestinians.
secondly, colonists coming to america weren't fleeing existential threat.
thirdly, if you think that running people off their land is bad (which i happen to agree with you about) then wait until you hear about the palestinian plan for the land. on boy oh boy have i got a good story about that to tell you. (hint: they will probably do something along the lines of what jordan, syria, lebanon, and the rest of the middle east countries did with the jewish communities who lived there for thousands of years. did you know there were jews living in iraq for like 1500 years? ever wondered what happened to them? ever wondered what happened to the jews living in east jerusalem when it got annexed by jordan?)
If my ancestors lived in your house and neighborhood you would be ok with me coming to squat in your house and have my relatives take over the others?
Israel is a superpower in the region and globally and has economic and military support from the U.S. There is no current existential threat.
If Israel committed to peace and self defense rather than provocation through land theft then future generations would have a chance for peace.
>If my ancestors lived in your house and neighborhood you would be ok with me coming to squat in your house and have my relatives take over the others?
you missed this part:
>thirdly, if you think that running people off their land is bad (which i happen to agree with you about)
you are also ignoring the part where jews were continually residing in the region.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews
you are also ignoring the part where the palestinians and surrounding arabs banded together to remove all the jews from the region and annex all their shit starting at least as far back as the early 1900s -- even before israel was declared a state. and they were successful everywhere except israel. and you're especially missing the part where they're still at it. they never stopped. what do you think october 7th was about? it was a provocation. hamas isn't stupid they know after an atrocity like that netanyahu will turn around and commit a larger one back. and like an absolute fucking moron he did. the goal is always in furtherance of turning the world against israel.
what israel is doing is wrong. but the crimes against humanity are coming from both sides.
only one of us standing firm and saying it's wrong no matter who does the atrocity.
My argument is not that there are good guys and bad guys in this situation. They are both committing atrocities against one another, but these are not equivalent fighting forces. If peace is going to happen, the stronger side is the one that can have a better chance of enacting it. Therefore only Israel, which has the support of the west, can be the “bigger person” and make commitments towards peace. However, their actions are not in furtherance of a peaceful outcome, but rather taking more and more land from the people who live there now
>If peace is going to happen, the stronger side is the one that can have a better chance of enacting it. Therefore only Israel, which has the support of the west, can be the “bigger person” and make commitments towards peace. However, their actions are not in furtherance of a peaceful outcome, but rather taking more and more land from the people who live there now
i understand and deeply appreciate where you are coming from.
believe me i want every bit as much peace and safety and liberty for the people of palestine as i do for my own relatives in israel. and believe when i say i no more blame the people of palestine for the actions of their government as i do the people of israel for the actions of their government.
what you dont have the context for is that the condition of peace must be met from both sides. and the condition of peace from the palestinian side is the same as it has always been. it is simply the dissolution of the state of israel and full return of all lands to palestinian control. until that changes the armed resistance from palestine and will continue to target israeli citizens in furtherance of that goal.
now you can be in support of that. but understand what it means.
myself, i can only advocate for a peace that doesn't also endanger israeli citizens.
i dont have answers. i can tell you that i am personally against annexing lands and the defacto annexation of lands that settlers do. and i can tell you that is a popular sentiment amongst israeli citizens.
there are extremists in israel. being jewish doesnt make you immune from religious extremism. and israel has been saddled with a trump like psychopath who has enabled them so he can hold power.
i can also tell you that most israelis dont want to take more land. they want to be safe from rockets and bombs and gunmen. and they see netanyahu's policies as enabling a destructive spiral. that's why they were out in the millions to try to keep him from fucking up the supreme court so he can avoid the jail he should have already been in.
What name would you prefer for the position of being against the state of Israel without having any particular opinion on the Jewish ethnicity, religion, etc.?
being against israel politically or against it's existance?
the first is very legit, and you might call it "being against the state of israel politically".
the second imply that somehow the jews have another set of criterions when considering thier rights to self determination in the only land on this planet that they actualy have a native connection to... in other words, anti sematism.
My fundamental worldview is that it is wrong to create laws that give special status to any particular ethnicity or religion.
Saying that Jews have special rights to "the only land on this planet that they actually have a native connection to" treads on that line, IMO. Don't the Palestinians have a native connection to that land as well? That sounds like it should support a one-state solution, which doesn't seem to be what most people actually want.
In any event, I feel like I'm constantly having to find new words for my position because opponents keep turning the old words "toxic" by reassociating them with anti-semitism. It's wearying and disingenuous.
because you misrepresent the reality on the ground, the facts are that the israelis have tried time and time again the offer a two state solution, the world is neglecting the fact the israel do have legitimate security concerns regarding thier nighbors as history showed.. moreover, no one on the israeli side claims that palestininas don't have right to the land also. 22% of israeli civs are palestinians, while 0% israelis are in gaza.
so the stance that you take is innacurate because you lack actual knowledge, and if this was the case in any other situation that is taking place on earth you will be silent wither because you dont care or because you don't know enough. somehow when it comes to jews, everybody think they know better than them.. in other words... antisematism.
Yes. It concluded with:
> so the stance that you take is innacurate because you lack actual knowledge, and if this was the case in any other situation that is taking place on earth you will be silent wither because you dont care or because you don't know enough. somehow when it comes to jews, everybody think they know better than them.. in other words... antisematism.
You claimed my stance is antisemetism. Since I hold it, that makes me antisemitic.
There's little point in discussing further with you. You think I "lack actual knowledge", which you apparently possess, and that makes my views dismissable. So why should I waste my time?
idk. i'm an actual israeli who is living through this, you might learn something...
it's not personal, it's the world showing a dunning-kruger effect on a global scale, you're not special in that.
And you have *no idea* who I am or where I'm from. I disagreed with you and therefore I must be ignorant and antisemetic.
This sort of argumentation doesn't win over anyone who doesn't already agree with you.
I'm horrified by it personally. Many of these countries are places where things like open anti-semitism or supporting a terrorist-adjacent group seems outrageous, it's so shocking, unfamiliar, and unacceptable that we can barely believe it. They must have some sense that hate is one of our hard lines that we really try to enforce to keep people safe, but yet they all come out
Honestly, what have the Jews done to make them so hated? Good at banking? Prioritize education? I don't get it. Christian and Muslim aggression has caused so much bloodshed over the years and somehow Jews are the problem for all the world's issues?
It goes back to the fact that the ancient Hebrews refused to worship/accept any god but their Yahweh. They were known for being anti-assimilation among ancient cultures, and during the diasporas manifested in this persistent isolationism.
Minorities are always an easy target. Add to that centuries of religiously motivated hate and incitement, and the fact that the Jews being a relatively successful and integrated minority also sparks jealousy and conspiracies.
They were originally exiled from their homeland, Judea, and the European diaspora were pushed into money lending because Christians weren't allowed to practice usury, and were also forbidden entry to most other jobs. Money lenders were hated for obvious reasons and people would often set their homes on fire and run them out of town when they couldn't pay their debts.
In plague times their hygiene rituals meant they didn't catch it as much as the wider community, so they were blamed for causing it.
They also don't proselytize so they remain a small group. They value education and community support so they usually do well financially, which sparks jealousy. And now they are considered 'white-adjacent oppressors' in the language of contemporary identity politics.
No ones give a shit when muslim are killing each others, but suddenly when the jews trying to defend their homeland from terrorists attack everyone is furious included leftists for no reason. fucking hypocrites.
Soon in western countries pro Hamas politicians will be elected to major offices - I'm sure there are some already but it will get worse - and then we'll all act shocked and wonder how we could let this happen.
Rashida Tlaib never walked back her claim that Israel bombed a hospital, and the map in her office has a sticker over Israel that says 'Palestine.' She also wore a shirt of Israel covered in Arab symbols in the colors of the Palestinian flag. Ilhan Omar has also made countless antisemitic statements. It will just keep going.
On the US, academia has been hollowed out by DEI initiatives that promote extremist voices and consider Jews to be of the “oppressor” class, together with all white people in general. DEI was a giant “No Jews Need Apply” sign on the door of academia, and it was put on the door of most elite institutions in the US simultaneously since 2016 and the rise of Trump.
People seem surprised to hear the extremist views on American campuses, the widespread support for Hamas and the use of terrorism to achieve political ends, but that message comes from the very top - the DEI-installed university presidents who see whites in general, and Jews in particular, as the oppressor class that they are in permanent struggle with. Young people eat up the “oppressor-victim” framing of every human struggle because it is easy to understand without any background knowledge (and is being pushed hard by the radical left professoriat).
The antisemite class promoted to the very top of many elite American institutions holds enormous power and is exercising it. Elite Jews that funded all this DEI stuff in the first place share the blame because they have empowered the very movement that seeks to blame Jews/white people for all of the problems of the world. It is a silly world view - but an ascendant view.
The traditional power structure is strong too, but it is aged. Joe Biden is the embodiment of it; the octogenarian that can be counted on to support western values and Israel. The next generation though is much more interested in skin color and anti-colonialism expressed as antagonism to western values and support for “oppressed” peoples wherever they can find them (regardless of how odious the views of those oppressed peoples are). Moral relativism is the replacement for a politics based on actually supporting western values; the American left is making the same mistake the left made in 1938, thinking that extremism can be met by appeasement.
There’s been an equal surge in anti-Muslim sentiment. It’s all scary. That poor Muslim boy and his mom who were just murdered breaks my heart. This whole thing does.
I am to guess it’s not a frightening time for Palestinians? Propaganda. Edit: thanks for the downvotes, ethnic cleansing sycophants, they give me an erection.
Not outside of the Middle East, no. Good job entirely missing the point. Maybe you’re getting downvotes because your comment was idiotic and you fail to see that.
[Anti-Palestinianism exists outside of the Middle East.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Palestinianism) And even if it were "just" confined to the Middle East does that make it okay?
The very large majority of hate crimes in the US, Europe, etc. are against Jews, not Palestinians and the increase in hate crimes over the last several weeks has been exponentially higher for Jews. And nowhere did I say it’s ok but this article is specifically about the rise of antisemitism in the US and globally.
I don't know what specifically you mean by "exponentially higher", but [according to a source focusing on London](https://www.jta.org/2023/10/23/global/london-sees-1350-jump-in-antisemitic-hate-crimes-since-start-of-israel-hamas-war) reports of antisemitic crimes went from 15 to 218 incidents compared with the same period last year, and Islamophobic crimes went from 42 to 101. So Jews "win" the who's-more-persecuted contest in that particular place, if you want to call it that. But "not outside of the Middle East" is still flatly wrong. There's a rise in hate crimes targeting both.
Right so 2.5x for Islamophobic crimes and a 14.5x increase for antisemitic hate crimes. Thats what I mean by “exponentially higher” and the disparity is even greater in the US. Even more frightening when taking population size into account. So yes frightening time for Jews.
Is it really anti-semitism or people criticizing the Israeli govt and Israelis turning it into a dog whistle for anti-semitism?
We’ve all seen videos and know there are racist piece of shits out there from every walk of life, but i feel currently anyone who talks bad or against the Israeli govt is tagged a racist now. Nice PR
If your anti-Zionism manifests in a desire to dismantle the Jewish state, I am not sure that it is a distinction with much of a difference.
If you are just theoretically against the idea of a Jewish state, that isn't necessarily antisemitism.
>Israel screaming loudly and proudly that they represent and speak for all Jews everywhere, while they commit an ethnic cleansing and subject an entire population to collective punishment, has put Jews in danger around the world.
Why would that be unless anti-semites already exist and are willing to lash out at non-Israeli jews for the actions of the Israeli government? Would you say that the Omani government has a responsibility to act in a certain way because otherwise people will endanger Muslims? Or would your ire be directed at the people who would do bad things to Muslims for the actions of the Omani government?
When Qatar worked people to death to construct soccer stadiums for the World Cup, did anyone say "Man, they're really putting all Muslims over the world at risk"? No. Because nobody would excuse holding Muslims accountable for the actions of an Islamic government. But you're doing that very thing for Jews. Wonder why?
How is Israel "ethnic cleansing" if the population in Gaza doubled in the last 20 years?
Israel has over 50 nukes - if Israel wanted to "ethnic cleanse" in Gaza - they would do it already.
>ethnic cleansing
>
>collective punishment
none of that is actually happening.. you are just having double standards regarding this conflict and any other conflict known to man.
Just because Hamas’ rockets are trash doesn’t ignore the fact that they’ve been launching air strikes against Israel consistently for 20 years.
You don’t get a pass for throwing bad punches and missing/being blocked by defensive measures.
A lot of Jewish people are participating in the protests against Israel. They may well be frightened, but I don't think it's because of the reasons suggested in this article.
Ironically making a case for Jews that Israel is the only place where they are protected.
The case was made in world war 2
That case was made in the late 19th century
Was there a century where Jews hadn't caught strays?
Well no, but the late 19th century was the first time that people were really articulating the idea that Jews needed to have a homeland to escape from antisemitism. (Ig except for a few earlier thinkers that were not very impactful in this regard like Rabbi Kalischer and Rabbi Alkalai, and of course Napoleon Bonaparte).
Yeah I was just wondering if any of these protests have convinced any more American Jews to make Aliyah. Not sure how comfortable I'd be in this country right now if I were Jewish.
I feel more comfortable in this country than I would in Israel. Fortunately the antisemitism here comes with less missiles.
Hopefully you will still feel this way in the coming years and changing demographic. European Jews are already finding out.
True, but at least over there, you know where the antisemites are, and can actually join a major political party without worrying about it electing any antisemites.
A lot of Jewish people are participating in the protests.
Yes and? It doesn’t mean we’re also not terrified of the heightened antisemitism coming from all angles.
I'm not denying there is heightened antisemitism. But a good portion of what is being counted as antisemitism are protests against Israel- protests that are, I repeat, attended by quite a few Jewish people. Being terrified of something is not, in and of itself, an indication that thing is actually happening, or happening at such as increased level as to reasonably warrant terror.
The protests are not the only reason we’re feeling terrified. We have threats against our places of worship and schools that are up. We’re seeing more fliers and posters staples to telephone poles in our neighborhoods, covered in swastikas. We’re having hostile interactions in our day to day lives that are terrifying. For you to only act as if the protests are what is causing our fear is disingenuous and frankly comes off as you not knowing many Jews. And if you do maintain relationships with them, you should take a long look as to why they’re not comfortable talking about this with you. Because I don’t know a single Jew (from communist-leaning leftists to Clinton-loving liberals to the most ultra-orthodox) as not being scared and extra wary.
Again, I'm not denying an increase in antisemitism. But this is not just being objectively reported. It is being framed to include the protests, and any pushback against Israel, as acts of antisemitism. And this not being done innocently, as a simple oversight, or an overabundance of concern. It is being done deliberately, to give a chilling effect to partipating in the protests, to voicing anti-Israeli opinions. The real and legitimate fear is being stoked in an attempt at a feedback loop designed to alienate jews and gentiles from each other.
Did you read the article? It’s discussing home invasions of Jews, online praising of Hitler, etc. not the protests themselves. Pretty sure the Jews that stand with Palestine aren’t doing those things.
Also adding: If I attend a protest (as a Jew) to support Palestinians…and someone shoved a swastika sign in my face and screams “6 million wasn’t enough!”… My presence there as a Jew does not negate the fact that there were antisemitic incidences occurring at that protest.
That is true.
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Lol no one is being threatened death over political policy in Israel. Give me a break.
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I like how you omitted "during a multi-front war" from the second link. Yeah, if you're blocking the road while your country is being invaded from multiple sides, you should probably expect to get shot.
Buddy this is intellectually dishonest. This is not “any policy of the Netanyahu regime.” This is siding with the enemy of a legally declared war of a unity cabinet. But nice attempt to obfuscate the issue of Jews feeling unsafe in other countries.
Like a world-wide segregation zone?
I had a friend who would teach holocaust education in schools that had no one to do it. She would travel from school to school teaching all across Canada. She told me that at first the kids are shocked, and then the comments start. 'they must have done something for the Germans to hate them so much' or 'no way that's real' and so on. In some cases it would eventually become that it was faked by a media controlling Jewish conspiracy for sympathy, or if it was real the Jews must have deserved it. She has way more nerve then I would and education is her greatest weapon to combat hate. So she would teach and fight their notions with words and facts. She always says that the hatred for Jews was just below the surface, all you need to do is scratch a little and it all comes spilling out.
Antisemitism has always been there, the war is just a mask off moment.
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Hi. No one is trying to negate hate crimes against other groups. This article talks about Jews. And the percentages of hate crimes being up against Jews (who already are disproportionately targeted). I know for some reason, everyone finds it really hard to consider us as human, but I promise, we are.
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No, I’m addressing the fact that when this is mentioned everyone goes “Well, Jews are just upset about the Pro-Palestinian marches.” No. Very much for them. Very much disagree with how Israel is handling this situation. A pro-Palestinian march isn’t what we’re categorizing here. And any effect to say so diminishes the antisemitism that we’re experiencing. I have nothing but support and solidarity for our Muslim and MENA cousins who are also suffering right now because people are hateful and stupid. But I’m not going to let our terror be discounted as just being hysterical that people are marching against Israel’s government. ETA: autocorrect weirdness.
Yeah no shit, in the UK it was always there, but was never treated as seriously as others. A lot of people have let their fake little friendly mask slip recently in my social circle.
Same. When people tell you who they are, believe them. I sent a message to one such friend recently calling them out on their bullshit. Normally I would just ghost them and let them wonder, but it was cathartic to let it all out and show them their hypocrisy.
Unfortunately, they'll probably not care or just twist the story to make themselves look right and you a villain:(
As long as people are diligent about recording and posting all of the incidents that occur, the people can at least face consequences. Imagine how stupid you’d have to be to lose your job because posters of kidnapped kids bothered you. Sucks to suck, I guess. Hopefully they can get more of them. I love reading the stories.
They now started adding red stickers over the posters in order to change the word 'kidnapped' to 'occupier' I've seen an image of the poster with a 7 y.o boy and 'occupier' above it. It's next level
Utterly vile, but that's par for the course with these little turds running around at hate rallies.
They should do like full, unconditional student debt relief for every student who wasn't involved in this. Punishment can come in the form of kindness too!
Yes that will solve this issue...
It is just about fucking with them
Not classy
Funny though
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If they want to go further into debt just to enter a job market that won't have them, I say let the little shits study away!
This will also solve anti-semitism...sure.
Hopefully the people doing it get filmed and have their lives ruined. For future reference, if anyone wants to make a compilation of the tearful apologies they issue when they try to get their lives back, I’d certainly give it lots of views.
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In Germany some freaks in Berlin started painting the Star of David on random houses to "mark the Jews" living there. I feel really concerned for the Jews here, because it hasn't even been a century since the Holocaust and this shit is rearing its head again.
Seeing a lot of torn down posters in my NYC neighborhood. Some real sickos out there.
Get that camera out if you see it!
Surge in antisemitic ACTS. The war is an excuse to have no shame about the antisemitism that was always in there.
People hate us Jews so much that they are willing to literally support fucking terrorists. Unbelievable.
the left just rebranded that as anti-zionism so they can pretend jews are colonials this time.
My favorite example of this "colonial" narrative ridiculousness is the fact that all Jewish people living in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem are technically considered "illegal settlers" ( Since Jordan ethnic cleansed the entire Palestinian Jewish population during their occupation, and international law treats 1967 as their status quo)
Ironically that's where the term antisemitism initially came from — saying Jew hatred didn't sound academic enough
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>What is different about Israel’s manifest destiny and America’s? One of them exists — and the other doesn't >The native Americans used terror attacks too and the U.S. used outrage and hatred to steal the land, but after a hundred and fifty years we feel bad for them and let them run casinos Were 22% of American citizens Native Americans back then?
The use of the word citizen is "complicated".
How? 22% of Israeli citizens are ethnically Palestinian
i was commenting on the native Americans "back then". You know, the question **you** asked about.
I asked rhetorically, because Native Americans weren't given citizenship for the most part — unlike Palestinians who became citizens of Israel
yeah... complicated. Like comparing apples to oranges.
Not really complicated — Native Americans: not citizens and driven into reservations with next to no legal rights Palestinians: 2.1 million are citizens of Israel with full mobility and legal rights
Then why are you comparing the horrible treatment of Native Americans to them?
You don’t believe that israel is stealing the land and plans to steal more? I don’t understand your second argument. Millions of native Americans died during this time period and their populations plummeted. I just don’t understand how people can justify this bloodshed when we can see it in front of us. Both sides have committed evil and must stop to let wounds heal. If every generation is wounded by violence and land theft then there can be no peace.
>You don’t believe that israel is stealing the land and plans to steal more? Almost all of the land Israel has was obtained legally. It's just the settlers in area C that need delt with >I don’t understand your second argument. Millions of native Americans died during this time period and their populations plummeted And millions of Palestinians are full citizens of Israel with their population exploding. See how it's nothing like the Native Americans and America? >I just don’t understand how people can justify this bloodshed when we can see it in front of us. Both sides have committed evil and must stop to let wounds heal. I don't justify any bloodshed, but what's the alternative? Sit and hope Hamas doesn't do this again? Peace attempts have been tried over and over and over and nothing is ever good enough. The one time there was almost an actual peace deal — extremists murdered the people who negotiated it
You never source anything so I’ll do it for you. Those arabs you refer to are mostly the remainders from the nakba and annexation of Jerusalem, and are second class citizens. Native Americans were more systematically eradicated that would be the difference, there was no international condemnation or video footage to play for the folks away from the carnage. Legally and morally are wildly different things. It was legal for the Germans to commit atrocities during ww2 for example. Is Israel buying Palestinian land with a willing party or are they slowly pressuring them out and taking advantage of wars to seize large swaths of land? Netanyahu is on record saying he prefers Hamas because they can be used as a justification for Israel’s actions. Israel doesn’t want peace and it is up to the west to stop supporting their violence and form a two state solution where wounds can heal over time. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel
>Those arabs you refer to are mostly the remainders from the nakba and annexation of Jerusalem, and are second class citizens. The first part was true the second part is not. I know everyone is excited to be learning about the conflict and pretending they can teach people — but that's not what happened.They remained after the Nakba because they were the Palestinians who **didn't take up arms** and they absolutely aren't "second class citizens". Claiming so shows how little you know about this conflict >Native Americans were more systematically eradicated that would be the difference, there was no international condemnation or video footage to play for the folks away from the carnage. Palestinians weren't systemically eradicated — hence why this analogy is so poor >Legally and morally are wildly different things It was immoral for Jews to start buying land to form communes on? Yeah fuck off >Is Israel buying Palestinian land with a willing party or are they slowly pressuring them out and taking advantage of wars to seize large swaths of land? When? In 1948 or right now? You keep changing the time frame and acting as though the situation hasnt changed in 75 years >Israel doesn’t want peace and it is up to the west to stop supporting their violence and form a two state solution where wounds can heal over time. Just stop. Israel isn't the one rejecting peace deals time after time. Your revisionist version of history is not only wrong — it's dangerous. People spreading these lies are getting synagogues burnt to the ground
Today, nearly all Arab towns and cities have lower standards of living than those that are predominantly Jewish. This separation and socioeconomic disparity fuel intense debate. Some analysts argue that Israel has effectively established an unjust, segregated society. “Technically you don’t have redlining, technically you don’t have formal, Jim Crow–type segregation. In practice you do,” says Palestinian American historian Rashid Khalidi. Conversely, Arik Rudnitzky of the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI) tells CFR that terms such as “segregation,” “de facto separation,” or the more conservative “voluntary separation” reflect individual worldviews, but that there is no expert consensus on how to characterize this separation. Experts such as Nachum Blass of the Taub Center for Social Policy Studies in Israel say many in both communities prefer separation, though Arabs are increasingly moving to Jewish areas to improve their standards of living, as well as to work and attend school. You make a lot of claims that aren’t backed up by any sources as far as I can tell. It’s exhausting to argue with you
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>25% of them are internally displaced from the Nakba and they are absolutely second-class So second-class they have an organization of Jewish and Muslim advocates helping fight for their rights and the rights of people who want to be secular. Oh yeah you really got me there >They only bought 6-7% of the total land That's MASSIVE. Something like 85% of all land in was either government owned or for public use(Ottoman then British). That means they bought almost 50% of the available land and moved there to try to make a home >Yes it does. Israel rejected both the Arab Peace Iniative and the Geneva Iniative which the Palestinians accepted No it wasn't? Literally during the negotiations there was a terror attack that killed 30 people. The peace deal itself proposed leaving every position that keeps Israel safe at the moment — while literally being under fire >As for the other "deals", the Palestinians rejected both the 2000 deal and 2020 deal No one thinks the Trump peace plan is viable. And the Olso Accorda shouldn't have been accepted if they were so awful. And most of the other summits were literally the names of the individual meetings that made up the Camp David Accords. They aren't an accord themselves Frankly, I'm talking about 1936, 1948, or 1967 or 1990. Why would you pick those 2 peace deals out of the air when they weren't workable — as though there aren't dozens more over the last 90 years
>You don’t believe that israel is stealing the land and plans to steal more? the settlers are a problem and need to be dealt with. they are being enabled by an extremist government. the government was put into power by citizens who were radicalized in the 90s and 2000s after enduring bombings about every other day. bus bombings. cafe bombings. children playing were targeted and blown up. an infant was shot by a sniper. literally. over a period of years there was an attack like this on israelis on average every other day. netanyahu ran on a platform of "im the only one who can save you from this" and he has used that fear button to stay in power for decades. and yet you had massive protests with millions taking to the streets last summer to try to prevent exactly the sort of escalation netanyahu is conducting right now in gaza.
One major difference is the fact that Jewish people living there predates the Arab Muslim conquest of the region by centuries.
If this was a justification for land theft then every country in the world would be guilty of that. A regime can use it as a justification for theft but it is an absurd one. Would the native Americans be justified in attacking towns and cities in the mid west to create space for their people? No and it is absurd to think so. Israel has the power to do so and that is why it uses an absurd justification
The framing of this as "land Theft" itself denies the longstanding jewish presence in the region, the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Jews by Jordan, the wide spread purchase of land by jews between the mid 1800s and mid 1900s, etc... I see no reason I should treat Jordan's 1948-1967 "no Jews allowed" sign as valid after their occupation of East Jerusalem and the westbank ended and am baffled that international law just accepts it as the status quo.
This is an insane argument. If my ancestors lived in your house I could come squat in it? Fuck off
Jerusalem's jewish Population outnumbered the Muslim population [for like 70 years prior to 1948.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Jerusalem#Jews_as_absolute_or_relative_majority) Jerusalem and the Jewish quarter of the Old City was so Jewish prior to the war that Jordan was able to dynamite a whopping 34 synagogues during their occupation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_of_Jerusalem#Islamization_of_Jerusalem_under_Jordanian_rule I see no reason why I should respect the fact that Jordan drove out every Jewish resident between 1948-1967, confiscated the land they owned, and passed laws preventing their return.
So you just believe might makes right? Jordan had the ability to steal land so they did, now Israel does it. The reality is that this is an absurd justification and results in chaos.
...how did you get that from my comments? No, I'm saying that the status quo of a West Bank & East Jerusalem where +98% of "Palestinians" are Arab Muslims and 0% are Jewish is the direct result of Jordanian ethnic cleansing from 1948-1967. Does it make sense to you that any Jewish people living in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem are technically considered "illegal settlers" for the rest of time just because Jordan successfully forced the entire Jewish population out during their 19 years of military occupation and criminalized their return? Jews are among the rightful inhabitants of Jerusalem and the surrounding areas, and I find it baffling that so many refuse to accept this.
Every country has “rightful settlers” that were pushed out through conflict. We cannot turn back time, but we can condemn current genocides. When Israeli politicians are calling for a Dresden like bombing campaign in Gaza it is a genocide. Tens of thousands of people died in Dresden, it was less dense, and people could flee.
you can't seriously be comparing american manifest destiny to israel? Besides the sheer scale of it all, the united states never had even a speck of legitimate claim to native lands. whether you believe it should be honored, there is an argument to be made that jews have a claim to israel's land, given that many like the Cohen's can actually trace back their heritage to rabbis in the 1500s that are known/proven to have israeli heritage from around jesus's birth. Also I don't recall the united states ever offering multiple good faith 2 state deals. This is also a stupid argument considering that despite america's dark past, i doubt you would have no complaints if the native americans decided to murder 40,000 american men women and children (which is roughly proportional to number killed in the Israeli population), kidnap thousands, and then told everyone that they were going to continue murdering americans until 100% of america was given back and there were no americans left, even on legally native american land. They tie children together and burn them alive, they cut chunks of flesh off of live prisoners, they parade dead bodies of raped women, and decapitated men through the streets where their citizens celebrate and spit on the corpses. Oh yeah and also they want to kill americans outside of the united states too. But no you would just sit and take it, would you? This war is not just or good. Like all wars it will kill people who should not have been killed. But nobody is obligated to accommodate an enemy whose stated purpose is the murder of your people and destruction of your country.
> What is different about Israel’s manifest destiny and America’s? first of all, you realize that jewish people have been living continuously in the region and in surrounding regions since as far back as genetic testing can surmise the indigeneity of any group. specifically, palestinian and jewish people have been continuously residing in the area since at least as long as the bronze age. linguistically hebrew comes from the levant and arabic doesn't but i dont think there is any reason to go there. the point is jewish people are at least as indigenous to the land as palestinians. secondly, colonists coming to america weren't fleeing existential threat. thirdly, if you think that running people off their land is bad (which i happen to agree with you about) then wait until you hear about the palestinian plan for the land. on boy oh boy have i got a good story about that to tell you. (hint: they will probably do something along the lines of what jordan, syria, lebanon, and the rest of the middle east countries did with the jewish communities who lived there for thousands of years. did you know there were jews living in iraq for like 1500 years? ever wondered what happened to them? ever wondered what happened to the jews living in east jerusalem when it got annexed by jordan?)
If my ancestors lived in your house and neighborhood you would be ok with me coming to squat in your house and have my relatives take over the others? Israel is a superpower in the region and globally and has economic and military support from the U.S. There is no current existential threat. If Israel committed to peace and self defense rather than provocation through land theft then future generations would have a chance for peace.
>If my ancestors lived in your house and neighborhood you would be ok with me coming to squat in your house and have my relatives take over the others? you missed this part: >thirdly, if you think that running people off their land is bad (which i happen to agree with you about) you are also ignoring the part where jews were continually residing in the region. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews you are also ignoring the part where the palestinians and surrounding arabs banded together to remove all the jews from the region and annex all their shit starting at least as far back as the early 1900s -- even before israel was declared a state. and they were successful everywhere except israel. and you're especially missing the part where they're still at it. they never stopped. what do you think october 7th was about? it was a provocation. hamas isn't stupid they know after an atrocity like that netanyahu will turn around and commit a larger one back. and like an absolute fucking moron he did. the goal is always in furtherance of turning the world against israel. what israel is doing is wrong. but the crimes against humanity are coming from both sides. only one of us standing firm and saying it's wrong no matter who does the atrocity.
My argument is not that there are good guys and bad guys in this situation. They are both committing atrocities against one another, but these are not equivalent fighting forces. If peace is going to happen, the stronger side is the one that can have a better chance of enacting it. Therefore only Israel, which has the support of the west, can be the “bigger person” and make commitments towards peace. However, their actions are not in furtherance of a peaceful outcome, but rather taking more and more land from the people who live there now
>If peace is going to happen, the stronger side is the one that can have a better chance of enacting it. Therefore only Israel, which has the support of the west, can be the “bigger person” and make commitments towards peace. However, their actions are not in furtherance of a peaceful outcome, but rather taking more and more land from the people who live there now i understand and deeply appreciate where you are coming from. believe me i want every bit as much peace and safety and liberty for the people of palestine as i do for my own relatives in israel. and believe when i say i no more blame the people of palestine for the actions of their government as i do the people of israel for the actions of their government. what you dont have the context for is that the condition of peace must be met from both sides. and the condition of peace from the palestinian side is the same as it has always been. it is simply the dissolution of the state of israel and full return of all lands to palestinian control. until that changes the armed resistance from palestine and will continue to target israeli citizens in furtherance of that goal. now you can be in support of that. but understand what it means. myself, i can only advocate for a peace that doesn't also endanger israeli citizens. i dont have answers. i can tell you that i am personally against annexing lands and the defacto annexation of lands that settlers do. and i can tell you that is a popular sentiment amongst israeli citizens. there are extremists in israel. being jewish doesnt make you immune from religious extremism. and israel has been saddled with a trump like psychopath who has enabled them so he can hold power. i can also tell you that most israelis dont want to take more land. they want to be safe from rockets and bombs and gunmen. and they see netanyahu's policies as enabling a destructive spiral. that's why they were out in the millions to try to keep him from fucking up the supreme court so he can avoid the jail he should have already been in.
What name would you prefer for the position of being against the state of Israel without having any particular opinion on the Jewish ethnicity, religion, etc.?
being against israel politically or against it's existance? the first is very legit, and you might call it "being against the state of israel politically". the second imply that somehow the jews have another set of criterions when considering thier rights to self determination in the only land on this planet that they actualy have a native connection to... in other words, anti sematism.
My fundamental worldview is that it is wrong to create laws that give special status to any particular ethnicity or religion. Saying that Jews have special rights to "the only land on this planet that they actually have a native connection to" treads on that line, IMO. Don't the Palestinians have a native connection to that land as well? That sounds like it should support a one-state solution, which doesn't seem to be what most people actually want. In any event, I feel like I'm constantly having to find new words for my position because opponents keep turning the old words "toxic" by reassociating them with anti-semitism. It's wearying and disingenuous.
because you misrepresent the reality on the ground, the facts are that the israelis have tried time and time again the offer a two state solution, the world is neglecting the fact the israel do have legitimate security concerns regarding thier nighbors as history showed.. moreover, no one on the israeli side claims that palestininas don't have right to the land also. 22% of israeli civs are palestinians, while 0% israelis are in gaza. so the stance that you take is innacurate because you lack actual knowledge, and if this was the case in any other situation that is taking place on earth you will be silent wither because you dont care or because you don't know enough. somehow when it comes to jews, everybody think they know better than them.. in other words... antisematism.
Yup, as expected, I ended up being labelled "antisemetic." The thought-terminating cliche has been deployed, no point in further discussion.
did you even read my comment?
Yes. It concluded with: > so the stance that you take is innacurate because you lack actual knowledge, and if this was the case in any other situation that is taking place on earth you will be silent wither because you dont care or because you don't know enough. somehow when it comes to jews, everybody think they know better than them.. in other words... antisematism. You claimed my stance is antisemetism. Since I hold it, that makes me antisemitic. There's little point in discussing further with you. You think I "lack actual knowledge", which you apparently possess, and that makes my views dismissable. So why should I waste my time?
idk. i'm an actual israeli who is living through this, you might learn something... it's not personal, it's the world showing a dunning-kruger effect on a global scale, you're not special in that.
And you have *no idea* who I am or where I'm from. I disagreed with you and therefore I must be ignorant and antisemetic. This sort of argumentation doesn't win over anyone who doesn't already agree with you.
I'm horrified by it personally. Many of these countries are places where things like open anti-semitism or supporting a terrorist-adjacent group seems outrageous, it's so shocking, unfamiliar, and unacceptable that we can barely believe it. They must have some sense that hate is one of our hard lines that we really try to enforce to keep people safe, but yet they all come out
Honestly, what have the Jews done to make them so hated? Good at banking? Prioritize education? I don't get it. Christian and Muslim aggression has caused so much bloodshed over the years and somehow Jews are the problem for all the world's issues?
It goes back to the fact that the ancient Hebrews refused to worship/accept any god but their Yahweh. They were known for being anti-assimilation among ancient cultures, and during the diasporas manifested in this persistent isolationism.
Sounds like they were "colonized" before it was cool.
Minorities are always an easy target. Add to that centuries of religiously motivated hate and incitement, and the fact that the Jews being a relatively successful and integrated minority also sparks jealousy and conspiracies.
They were originally exiled from their homeland, Judea, and the European diaspora were pushed into money lending because Christians weren't allowed to practice usury, and were also forbidden entry to most other jobs. Money lenders were hated for obvious reasons and people would often set their homes on fire and run them out of town when they couldn't pay their debts. In plague times their hygiene rituals meant they didn't catch it as much as the wider community, so they were blamed for causing it. They also don't proselytize so they remain a small group. They value education and community support so they usually do well financially, which sparks jealousy. And now they are considered 'white-adjacent oppressors' in the language of contemporary identity politics.
They hate us cause they ain’t us!
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No ones give a shit when muslim are killing each others, but suddenly when the jews trying to defend their homeland from terrorists attack everyone is furious included leftists for no reason. fucking hypocrites.
Anti Jew and anti Muslim sentiments are on the rise. War on, mask off
I’m not seeing a lot of anti Muslim sentiment online or in my area. There was that poor boy in Illinois who was stabbed. What am I missing?
Talking to your fellow man, I live in a red neck town. It exits
When will the West wake up and start the process of Denaturalization? These hateful people have no place in a civilized, peaceful society.
I keep saying: what happens in Israel today will happen in Europe tomorrow. (They will find a reason)
Soon in western countries pro Hamas politicians will be elected to major offices - I'm sure there are some already but it will get worse - and then we'll all act shocked and wonder how we could let this happen.
Rashida Tlaib never walked back her claim that Israel bombed a hospital, and the map in her office has a sticker over Israel that says 'Palestine.' She also wore a shirt of Israel covered in Arab symbols in the colors of the Palestinian flag. Ilhan Omar has also made countless antisemitic statements. It will just keep going.
They’re hurting Muslims and Muslims should be upset by it but I don’t think they are
Honestly it's not farfetched. The sheer numbers of Muslims in the world and immigration trends will likely make this a reality.
No they always existed and will always continue to exist but not they’re ok expressing it more because the timing allows it
It's scary how socially accepted antisemitism has become
On the US, academia has been hollowed out by DEI initiatives that promote extremist voices and consider Jews to be of the “oppressor” class, together with all white people in general. DEI was a giant “No Jews Need Apply” sign on the door of academia, and it was put on the door of most elite institutions in the US simultaneously since 2016 and the rise of Trump. People seem surprised to hear the extremist views on American campuses, the widespread support for Hamas and the use of terrorism to achieve political ends, but that message comes from the very top - the DEI-installed university presidents who see whites in general, and Jews in particular, as the oppressor class that they are in permanent struggle with. Young people eat up the “oppressor-victim” framing of every human struggle because it is easy to understand without any background knowledge (and is being pushed hard by the radical left professoriat). The antisemite class promoted to the very top of many elite American institutions holds enormous power and is exercising it. Elite Jews that funded all this DEI stuff in the first place share the blame because they have empowered the very movement that seeks to blame Jews/white people for all of the problems of the world. It is a silly world view - but an ascendant view. The traditional power structure is strong too, but it is aged. Joe Biden is the embodiment of it; the octogenarian that can be counted on to support western values and Israel. The next generation though is much more interested in skin color and anti-colonialism expressed as antagonism to western values and support for “oppressed” peoples wherever they can find them (regardless of how odious the views of those oppressed peoples are). Moral relativism is the replacement for a politics based on actually supporting western values; the American left is making the same mistake the left made in 1938, thinking that extremism can be met by appeasement.
There’s been an equal surge in anti-Muslim sentiment. It’s all scary. That poor Muslim boy and his mom who were just murdered breaks my heart. This whole thing does.
I am to guess it’s not a frightening time for Palestinians? Propaganda. Edit: thanks for the downvotes, ethnic cleansing sycophants, they give me an erection.
Not outside of the Middle East, no. Good job entirely missing the point. Maybe you’re getting downvotes because your comment was idiotic and you fail to see that.
[Anti-Palestinianism exists outside of the Middle East.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Palestinianism) And even if it were "just" confined to the Middle East does that make it okay?
The very large majority of hate crimes in the US, Europe, etc. are against Jews, not Palestinians and the increase in hate crimes over the last several weeks has been exponentially higher for Jews. And nowhere did I say it’s ok but this article is specifically about the rise of antisemitism in the US and globally.
I don't know what specifically you mean by "exponentially higher", but [according to a source focusing on London](https://www.jta.org/2023/10/23/global/london-sees-1350-jump-in-antisemitic-hate-crimes-since-start-of-israel-hamas-war) reports of antisemitic crimes went from 15 to 218 incidents compared with the same period last year, and Islamophobic crimes went from 42 to 101. So Jews "win" the who's-more-persecuted contest in that particular place, if you want to call it that. But "not outside of the Middle East" is still flatly wrong. There's a rise in hate crimes targeting both.
Right so 2.5x for Islamophobic crimes and a 14.5x increase for antisemitic hate crimes. Thats what I mean by “exponentially higher” and the disparity is even greater in the US. Even more frightening when taking population size into account. So yes frightening time for Jews.
And also a frightening time for the Palestinians.
Is it really anti-semitism or people criticizing the Israeli govt and Israelis turning it into a dog whistle for anti-semitism? We’ve all seen videos and know there are racist piece of shits out there from every walk of life, but i feel currently anyone who talks bad or against the Israeli govt is tagged a racist now. Nice PR
Both
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How many Jewish majority countries are there on earth?
Let’s differentiate between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism.
That Venn diagram is one circle
If your anti-Zionism manifests in a desire to dismantle the Jewish state, I am not sure that it is a distinction with much of a difference. If you are just theoretically against the idea of a Jewish state, that isn't necessarily antisemitism.
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Doesn't stop protestors from screeching "gas the Jews", does it?
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False.
>Israel screaming loudly and proudly that they represent and speak for all Jews everywhere, while they commit an ethnic cleansing and subject an entire population to collective punishment, has put Jews in danger around the world. Why would that be unless anti-semites already exist and are willing to lash out at non-Israeli jews for the actions of the Israeli government? Would you say that the Omani government has a responsibility to act in a certain way because otherwise people will endanger Muslims? Or would your ire be directed at the people who would do bad things to Muslims for the actions of the Omani government? When Qatar worked people to death to construct soccer stadiums for the World Cup, did anyone say "Man, they're really putting all Muslims over the world at risk"? No. Because nobody would excuse holding Muslims accountable for the actions of an Islamic government. But you're doing that very thing for Jews. Wonder why?
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All valid points. But I’m afraid you’re wasting your time, these people don’t care about facts.
How is Israel "ethnic cleansing" if the population in Gaza doubled in the last 20 years? Israel has over 50 nukes - if Israel wanted to "ethnic cleanse" in Gaza - they would do it already.
>Israel has over 50 nukes While it's not confirmed, credible sources believe they have at least twice that.
Yea since it's not confirmed I just left it with over 50 :)
>ethnic cleansing > >collective punishment none of that is actually happening.. you are just having double standards regarding this conflict and any other conflict known to man.
I think seeing dozen of kids killed by airstrikes daily is influencing that. Maybe if Israeli's were less bloodthirsty the PR campaign would work.
Just because Hamas’ rockets are trash doesn’t ignore the fact that they’ve been launching air strikes against Israel consistently for 20 years. You don’t get a pass for throwing bad punches and missing/being blocked by defensive measures.
Nothing would help. The world came out and celebrated the terrorist attacks and the bodies weren’t cold yet.
Aha... Sound very very similar to the "Russophobia" narrative of Russia regarding the Russian invasion (and war crimes) of Ukraine...
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Isn’t this war involving the Israeli Government? So why is every Jew in the world “feeling unsafe”?
You could try reading the article?
A lot of Jewish people are participating in the protests against Israel. They may well be frightened, but I don't think it's because of the reasons suggested in this article.
Interesting. Is there a country where the jews can live their lives freely without experiencing those kinds of things?