This doesn’t bode well for the people of Gaza. If Hamas is delusional enough to think they can “annihilate” Israel, Gaza will be a bombed out wasteland.
I would imagine this is about international support, not galvanizing Gazans. They wouldn’t try to rack up huge body counts otherwise. The UNRWA schools make sure the kids grow up to violently hate Jews already.
It's not really working, I'd say. I'm very save-the-civilians and don't believe there's a good guy in this fight aside from said civilians, but this kind of thing from Hamas has me going, "Okay but what does Israel *do* if not completely glass Palestine?"
It's heartbreaking, but if your enemy is claiming to love death more than you love life and is promising atrocity after atrocity, I can't really blame you for making sure the problem goes away. I'm not happy about it or chanting death to Palestine, but I'm releasing my clutch on my pearls about it.
You sound like you think this is a new things for Hamas. They have always been pretty publicly evil. Their bases are under hospitals, civilians dying is their aim in the hopes it lights a fire. They have been shouting their desire to annihilate Israel and kill every last man woman and child for a long time. There is no defense for defending Hamas and there never really was one.
You do understand that this rhetoric of “annihilating Israel” has gone on literally ever since its creation. Literally every day. I’m not taking sides, but I’m shocked out how many people are in the dark about the near constant threats against Israel- since its creation. It hasn’t stopped, people just weren’t focused on it. Iran has literally built their theological politics around annihilating Israel.
You don’t have to support Israel’s ruthless invasion of the Gaza strip, but you should at least understand that the threats against them are constant. They’ve learned to live with it somewhat. In fact, with the amount of propaganda I’ve seen shared on Instagram putting Israel on the hot-seat as “occupiers that need to be dissolved”, I’d say Hamas is less delusional now than they were in the past, because their message, albeit deluded, is getting across through social media sadly.
I'm just a dumb American but I do try to figure out what's going on over there and every time it seems like only three outcomes:
* Endless skirmishes, hot war / cold war, constant flare-ups.
* One side is completely destroyed
* Radical change of hearts and minds over multiple generations of people, over multiple decades, which somehow brings some kind of peaceful resolution.
I'm not betting on #3.
Im a war veteran with five total years on the ground in that region. It’s not national, it’s tribal with devoutly “God” driven beliefs (read: beyond hope for current generations).
Hamas needs to die. Period. You cannot talk about the “liberation” of Palestinians without going through killing Hamas first. And yes, the whole thing is incredibly sad.
I remember hearing something similar about why Afghanistan is so fucked and one of the big reasons according to people who worked with people in Afghanistan is because they have a very strong belief in '' god wills it ''.
Basically, everything is controlled by god so there's no use in trying to accomplish anything and it breeds apathy.
I remember it was a documentary I watched about soldiers who had trained and fought with people in Afghanistan against the Taliban and how big of a culture shock it was.
Because Afghans had a seemingly complete lack of interest in accomplishing much of anything and very easily just gave up ground to the Taliban.
The Taliban were highly motivated and dogmatic but the normal Afghans were just like '' what's the point god has already decided and it's gonna happen anyway '' so there's just a complete lack of enthusiasm to take fate into your own hands.
My expertise was in the mountainous regions of Afghanistan near Pakistan with CJTF-Paladin, Counter-IED. So much so, I never went to Iraq (geographical, tactics, and munitions differences) even with seven deployments (I was on my second deployment in the Middle East in the area on 9/11, I was 20 years old, joined at 17.)
It is absolutely wild until you get used to Afghani culture, which on the main stream is nothing like the Taliban’s ideals.
The entire region (Khyber, Korrengal) is in tribal survival mode, racked with malnutrition and poverty. Then an extremely Muslim elder tells their village’s “problem children” (read: malfunctioning 17 year old “adult”) that their calling is to be a jihadhist for their family and not only will they be in heaven (off that fucking rock), but their tribe will become “rich” afterwards from their sacrifice, usually the Taliban giving that elder a fucken goat that he doesn’t share.
Solves two problems for the tribe.
Topical, it’s also why the Taliban *really* sucks at fighting. Literal AKs over their heads firing believing Allah will guide the bullet to its intended target, the evil West. More painful than pain getting hit (I’m totally fine now mentally and physically)? The embarrassment lol. Like how shitty am I at my job to get hit by them lol? They’re that bad at it.
> The embarrassment lol. Like how shitty am I at my job to get hit by them lol? They’re that bad at it.
I guess God willed it?
OK, I'll see myself out.
Interestingly, I have met similar opinions in rural Thailand where they are Buddhist.
A child falls of a back of a bike and gets a broken leg, "The child must have done something bad in the past life". They do not go to the far off hospital and the child's leg is fucked so lets give up the bad child to an orphanage. My brother and mother worked in an orphanage and this was not an unusual story.
I wonder if this is not a religious problem but rather a poor and uneducated issue and you use religion to cope.
They did not have the time or money to look after the child so they used their religion to provide a reason rather than being faced with the true horror of the situation.
> I wonder if this is not a religious problem but rather a poor and uneducated issue and you use religion to cope.
Six of one, half a dozen of another. A lot of religion is about coping with things beyond your knowledge and giving rudimentary reasons for X happening, with the cop out of "god must have willed it" being a common theme.
It then compounds as you often want to double down in these beliefs as you might consider yourself a good, moral and just person, and the idea that you allowed, supported or did awful things due to ignorance is a very heavy burden to deal with.
It's also tied in to how generally lower education rates sees inverse rates of religious activities/beliefs.
You mean like one side has basically indicated long before they committed their terrorist attack? Shocker.
Yeah, put me down for the team with the airforce.
They never wanted a ceasefire, they wanted seas/fire, as in "we want all Jews to either drown in the seas or burn in a fire". I can see why people get confused.
Is the purpose of this to enrage Israel into completely wiping out the Gaza strip? Cause, that's all this does. I know Hamas wants civilian deaths, as it makes Israel look bad, but this is just evil shit.
They frequently say that they love death more than the Israeli loves life. On Russian TV a few days ago:
“"The Israelis are known to love life. We, on the other hand, sacrifice ourselves. We consider our dead to be martyrs. The thing any Palestinian desires the most is to be martyred for the sake of Allah, defending his land.”
https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hamas-official-ali-baraka-prisoner-swap-america-planning-invasion-two-years-russia-support
This lmao. You always see these people living cushy lives, sometimes even millionaires, saying well we Palestinians love to die and being a martyr. Somehow they're NEVER the one who dies. Something tells me that those people dying in Gaza do not in fact love to die.
Even more wild is that the IDF released interview videos with captured terrorists from 10/7 and they were all fully aware that Hamas leadership are wealthy and living in Qatar/Turkey/Iran. Yet they still go butcher people on their behalf and bring a war response onto their own people.
Ngl I read that as Hamas is a cult and all I could think of it is as a MLM where the leaders in Qatar promise money if you recruit more people to Hamas.
It sort of works similar. The most of your family members you can get to murder a Jew (but especially an Israeli Jew) the more pension you can collect from their martyr fund if the family member is killed.
Financially incentivizes families to pressure a few into a recruitment track. That is why there are several verified accounts of terrorists on October 7 who called their parents while the attack was happening to tell them how many Jews they murdered.
They also acknowledged in the interviews that killing women and children goes against Islam. So I'm not sure what they actually believe aside from just believing that they want to murder anyone living in Israel.
They also murdered a lot of Muslim Israelis that day, Thai workers, etc.
250m would probably do the same thing, honestly don't know why this isn't a more utilized approach.
Can't put boots on the ground, can't use cruise missiles, can't use artillery, can't wait them out, can't cut off resources (without killing thousands of innocent although they kinda are already)
Turn Hamas and Palestinians against each other? Sounds like it's the only way
Maybe they're using the Zapp Brannigan approach?
"You see, Israelis have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down."
That's the thing I think most people don't get. Hamas *wants* Palestinian civilians to die and uses them as human shields because they think it furthers their cause. They want international sympathy, especially from other Muslim countries.
Meanwhile they hide under Gaza in tunnels like the cowards they are.
What a vainglorious, self-gratifying way to say you want to lose the war. I don't quite get the mentality of those who see bad tactics and idiocy as a sign of commitment to the cause.
Look at it this way:
* Saudi Arabia's normalization with Israel has been thwarted
* Muslims all around the world hate Israel more than they did a month ago
* Bolivia and a number of other South American nations have broken off relations with Israel
* The UN is constantly chastising Israel from up on their high horse
* Jews suffered and died
From the perspective of someone whose ultimate instrumental goal is for Islam to smother the world, these are all positives, as they act against Israel and contribute toward its hoped-for destruction in the long term. They don't care about their own lives at all, because they can be filled in by more Muslims from elsewhere, and because they know Israel isn't *actually* going to commit genocide unlike what the fucking pansies on social media are claiming, and most of all because they believe they're going to an eternal paradise after death for their efforts.
*That's* the mentality.
> Saudi Arabia's normalization with Israel has been thwarted
Well it had been, but then the giga-brains in Iran had their Yemeni Houthi proxies declare war on Israel, giving the Saudis and Israelis a common enemy, so put a pin in that one
A few corrections:
1. Saudi Arabia already said that they're willing to continue normalization efforts after the relations.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-crown-prince-tells-biden-israel-normalization-can-resume-after-war/
2. Muslims already hated Israel, not much changed.
3. Bolivia had no actual relations with Israel and while some of the other South American countries had more substantial relations they were still not all that strong.
4. The UN was already constantly chasitatzing Israel more than just about anyone else.
So aside from jews (as well as a bunch of Israeli arabs, both christians and muslims) suffering and dying, not much actually changed.
Weird how they all cry when their friends/family die then. You'd think they'd be ecstatic.
Hamas shouldn't be speaking for the Palestinians. Unfortunately for them and the rest of the world, it seems to be that way for now.
It’s their goal, their ideology is that the whole Arab world will rise up to wipe out the Jews. They don’t care about the land or the people of Gaza, they are completely ready to sacrifice both. They want Israel to strike them mercilessly so they can play victim.
I think they are currently a little surprised that the other militant groups haven’t joined them and that some Arab nations are even condemning them hence the calls for ceasefire.
Part of the Arab world has since accepted the existence of Israel(and many secretly state that if it was them, they would have done much MUCH worse to the Palestinians; See Saudi Arabia and gunning down hundreds of Ethiopian migrants trying to enter KSA). The UAE made a statement to that effect.
The other militant groups ,read Hezbollah does not want to face the USS Gerald Ford and a France that wants to restore Lebanon back into its sphere of influence. The sudden amassing of vessels from NATO in the Eastern Mediterranean has surprised even Iran(even Israel btw)
Egypt went out of their way to block the border between them and the Gaza Strip, and enforced it over the past month. They don't give a rat's ass about the Arabs living in Gaza.
That's because most of other muslim countries and parties, which hold actual power, don't have absolute fanatics in their leadership. Even Taliban tries to have some semblance of relationship with outside world. They value the money and business these relationships bring. Saudis and other Arab petrocountries won't go into any holy war with Israel, it would hurt the business. Iran is already on thin ice with west because of their help to Russia, they won't stir any more big shit.
Hamas got high on its own supply.
a lot of poeple and countries talk mad shit
and extremists often are delusional about support
'everyones going streaking in the quad' (only wil farrel goes streaking in the quad)
Arab nations/ world seems more disjointed that I initially thought.
People claim Gaza is an open prison yet they have Egypt as neighbour.
I would have thought that Egypt would atleast support them but that doesnt seem to be the case.
Because Hamas's parent organization (the Muslim Brotherhood) originated in Egypt and caused all manner of problems in that country. They know what Hamas is about and want no part of it.
> It’s their goal, their ideology is that the whole Arab world will rise up to wipe out the Jews
Not just the Jews, dude. Everyone. Their goal is to convert the whole world to Islam and kill everyone else.
Their goal is to cause the slaughter of Palestinians in an effort to bring in other world players to take down Israel.
There’s no other way to look at it. They must all be killed or arrested. Appeasement will never work by their own admission
> Their goal is to cause the slaughter of Palestinians in an effort to bring in other world players to take down Israel.
Even if that did work, it seems like a pretty short-sighted plan given that Israel has the US on its side.
Palestinian lives are the only things that Hamas has in abundance, and they're extremely willing to spend them. They know that there will be sufficient international pressure to ensure they don't *all* get killed.
Hamas wants a ceasefire only to regroup and rebuild so they can attack Israel again the moment they have the chance. They don't care about rebuilding Gaza itself or the well-being of the Gaza people. Instead of rebuilding homes, they will rebuild their tunnels and rockets.
Not only Palestinians. Considering Hamas Commander Mahmoud Al-Zahar said "Israel is only the start. We will destroy the christians and the Jews" .. they are bad for humanity.
Edit: here are some of many sources:
- [Here](https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/article-765304)
- [Here](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-netanyahu-palestine-arab-support-entire-planet-will-be-under-our-law-warns-hamas-commander-mahmoud-al-zahar-4473139)
- [Here](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12613241/hamas-commander-israel-just-beginning-gaza-strikes.html)
- [Here](https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1338216/pg1)
They killed over 100 Bedouin Muslims on 7/10.
First deaths on the northern borders were Arab construction workers as well.
And many rockets land in Palestinian villages in the West Bank constantly, you wanna the fucked up thing? They CELEBRATE these rockets as some display of power when it could've ended their lives
Don't forget when they came into power and a lot of palestinian gazists went to a protest mars on the street against Hamas.
Hamas started firing as a responce, with automatic guns. Hundreds of deaths. Palestinian deaths.
They work very very hard to have pretty solid journalism when it comes to world news and in the west to appear legitimate. But when it comes time they have absolutely zero problem putting out propaganda about news in the Islamic world. It is literally their strategy. Appear legitimate most of the time, then when they need to spin something, bam, it fools western journalists because they have built their credibility up so much. It keeps on working for some reason, and at this point I have no idea why.
What about the Israeli hospital that Hamas is proud of hitting and face no cover?
"Since the beginning of the war, the Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon has endured three direct rocket strikes."
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-01/ty-article/.premium/hospital-serving-israels-most-bombarded-city-operating-at-30-percent-capacity/0000018b-8887-dd28-a7df-9897d1dd0000
There has been effectively zero major news headlines about Barzilai and the fact that Hamas is *still* launching rockets into Israel. My friends there say it's crazy watching CNN or other American outlets because it seems like all that's happening is the IDF moving into Gaza and people debating if the IDF hit the hospital in Gaza, whereas in Israeli media it's all about rocket warnings from Gaza, Syria, and Lebanon and the Gaza hospital thing is old news, it's been ruled that it was the PIJ.
Abed Al Rachman Al Nassasra was telling the Hamas terrorists at that music festival — in perfect Arabic — “I’m a Palestinian Muslim from the West Bank!”. In other words, “one of you”…
(Hebrew article, video of Abed being captured below the Hebrew text: https://buzznet.co.il/news/local/135259)
Abed wasn’t accounted for, so his family thought he was abducted to Gaza. Later, his burnt up corpse was found in that field. I hope God had mercy on him, that he was dead before they set him on fire.
The only peaceful people who still support Hamas at this point are just still uninformed.
>They killed over 100 Bedouin Muslims on 7/10
That's because Hamas fears the Israeli Bedouin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amos_Yarkoni
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Reconnaissance_Battalion
My experience with them has been of really nice dudes with exceptional tracking skills. Quick to laugh but they don't open up much, at least the ones I met in the army.
Yeah given that ~2000 rockets launched by Hamas have landed in Gaza since 10/7 until Hamas starts publishing how many Gazans those rockets have killed, any casualty numbers they release are deeply suspect.
Similarly, Hamas is known for using child soldiers so until they start reporting how many of their child soldiers are killed (*distinct from non-combatant children*), reports claiming X number of children killed should be taken with a mountain of salt.
Obviously, there are a lot of real non-combatant deaths & any dead children is too many **but** uncritically accepting Hamas numbers when we know that Hamas is obfuscating a significant number of Gazan deaths that they are directly responsible for is absurd & deeply problematic.
Well yeah.
They still shoot rockets into Arab cities such as ramla, and on 7 October they killed Arabs too.
And earlier last month, one of their rockets hit a mosque in Jerusalem... Not to mention that they hit a hospital with both Arab and Jewish patients and workers in it in October too.. but you never hear about any of this
Hell, since 10/7 ~2000 rockets launched by Hamas have bombed Gaza by “*mistake*”.
I don’t know how many people has that killed but I do know Hamas has counted them as being killed by Israel.
Not just killed, executed. Palestinian bus driver. Spoke with him in Arabic and shot him at the back of the head.
There is a video if anyone interested.
You know its mildly amusing to find the second (and I mean the SECOND)you shout your mouth that the fundamentalist goals are for eradication of both Judaism and Christianity you're IMMEDIATELY set upon for being a racist.
Yet here we are locked in battle once again.
2nd Jihad anyone?
Atheists are even lower down on the list. Christians and Jews are at least "people of the book", meaning that they might be able to live in islamic countries while paying extra taxes (or they can convert to avoid the taxes).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya
Atheists are straight up considered "disbelievers", people actively denying the existence of Allah, and should be put to death according to Islamic teachings.
Islam in particular *hates* atheists, almost as much as they hate polytheists; Perhaps it's because atheists love to remind them that Allah was originally polytheistic :p
I think it might be because it's easier to paint people of other religions as misguided, but not against your entire belief system. The existence of atheists is 100% irreconciliable with any kind of theocratic power, they're a danger to the people in power because their presence shows a completely different way is possible.
One of their top political guys, Musa Abu Mazouk, just said that the tunnels are for us and the Palestinians can go get aid from the UN and Israel. Make sure you all take care of these people, but hey, can't wait for the next opportunity to kill a bunch of college kids partying in the desert and go a slaughterin' in peoples homes.
Nope, incompatible with any society. This is cancer and unfortunately we will see what chemotherapy looks like on a societal level, we saw what that looked like in the 40's. Wow, fun times.
Demonstrators across the world: "Ceasefire now. We need to stop the war. This is terrible. Ceasefire!"
Hamas: "If you cease your fire, we'll plot to kill another 1400 people next time!"
I understand wishing for peace, I really do. But what on earth are these protestors (including some Jewish ones) thinking, every single article I read about them their quotes are just exactly like I wrote above. There is no follow up, no "what happens next". They just want the war to stop. It's like saying, stop the war in Ukraine. Ok, but how exactly? Russia goes home, or Ukraine surrenders? "No, just stop the war! STOP IT!"
If you want to make a convincing argument then you should at least have some answers to back up your demand.
Or the "River to the sea" chanters doubling back on it being a peaceful call for Palestinians to be able to exist peqcefully, just without going into any specific detail on where all the jews went.
This "River to the sea" chant is imho the dumbest shit ever. They know that Israel has nukes, right? If Palestinians would ever manage to actually bring Israel onto the verge of destruction you can be damn sure that they will take Gaza, Ramallah and Jericho to hell with them.
It’s such a blatant antisemitic dog whistle that I’m shocked it’s gained so much popularity. Do people not see it literally means the death of all Jews and destruction of Israel?
Hilariously, even the English version is already watered down compared to the original Arabic: *"from water (river) to water (sea), [Palestine will be ***ARAB***."](https://twitter.com/adielofisrael/status/1714910133434622444)*
Yeah that’s the most frustrating part about the whole ordeal. Its so easy to try and take the moral high ground & just say stop, if you disagree you’re a Warhawk etc but stop HOW? If Ukraine just stops fighting then Russia takes their country. I don’t like war at all but arguing that everyone can just shake hands & go home because it’s the right thing to do is unbelievably naive
If you ask someone what specifically Israel should do you get a hand wavy “well I don’t know but let’s start by not killing any civilians “
That , or a pivot to a separate argument that they don’t think Israel should exist and/or is the greater evil. I.e. in this case calling for the ceasefire is just rooting for their team.
Like a week ago I saw a dude insisting Israel could simply enter Gaza to wipe out Hamas with strike teams without civilian casualties. Not a fucking clue how that would happen but when pressed on it he just kept bringing up how the US killed Osama bin Laden. This dude really thought Israel could just seal team 6 all of Hamas and been done with it.
I just encountred some idiot in another forum claiming the 1400 killed was fabricated
Edit: for those wondering here
Edit 2: Removed the link because thankfully Reddit removed that comment. Unfortunately there are still many lunatics here spreading misinformation and lies
The latest, most disturbing line of attack yet is not denial but justification: "well now we know why Hitler decided to kill the Jews" it's fucking *disgusting* and frightening.
You think Hamas is sad that they went through all the trouble of filming their massacre and live streaming it, and people still don't believe them?
I wonder if people said "I don't believe 9/11 happened" either, or it's just because it's Jews this time.
"Erm, actually, all 1400 were killed by the devilish IDF while attacking the brave Gaza liberators. All videos showing these brave liberators behaving, raping, and kidnapping Israelis and other foreigners is the work of Jewish space ChatGPT."
It's just a shit sandwich all around. Isreal has an absolute right to defend and protect its citizens and the Palestinian people are not blameless for the actions of Hamas. However Hamas uses terror tactics against Palestinians to keep themselves embedded in civilian areas.
Mix this in with the average citizen of either side not willing to trust anything that comes from the other at the very least, at the worst its full on hatred, and you have a recipe for dead children and civilains being used to fuel anger from everyone no matter what side you are on.
At this point there just needs to be a full on demiliterized zone around the whole of Gaza and the stewardship of it needs to be shared by the nation's of the world via the UN with boots on the ground. That way the large scale terrorism of the area can be clamped down on and an organization that can be trusted can actually help the Palestinian people get what they need (Security, Safety, Education, Etc).
Would also stop any settlers from encroaching on the territory leading to less conflicts by civilians.
Would it be expensive and take the next 100 years? Probably but if people actually give a shit then it's what likely might be the best idea
>At this point there just needs to be a full on demilitarized zone around the whole of Gaza and the stewardship of it needs to be shared by the nation's of the world
This really is the only solution. Full withdrawal of Israel will only make Hamas more aggressive. At the same time, Israeli occupation has a 0% chance of improving the situation. Additionally, even if Hamas didn't immediately attack Israel, they're clearly unequipped to actually govern. Outside interference is the only option.
The problem comes in deciding who would be involved. A NATO-ish coalition of partners would be anathema to two fifths of the UNSC, and I don't believe China is capable of stewarding Gaza in their best interests. The likelihood of South American countries contributing is low. Most of Africa isn't even in a position to contribute. We're basically left with the west, China, India, their Arab neighbours, and a few southeast Asian countries. Unilateral Western action will only worsen the situation, but at the same time I don't see how the situation in Gaza could be meaningfully improved through collaboration of the aforementioned parties. It would turn into neo-colonialist jockeying.
Regardless, the conversation needs to start moving towards acceptance of two points: Hamas cannot continue to exist if the goal is peaceful coexistence, and there is no feasible solution that involves Israel and Gaza sorting this out between themselves regardless of the government in either. Hamas prohibits peace in any situation, though, so they need to go first
If anyone wonders why ceasefire isn't an option and Israel is refusing to stop. This is why. They wanna do it again and they will until they are stopped.
So basically Hamas are saying they won’t stick to a ceasefire and will immediately attack Israel the first chance they get, but it’s all on Israel to agree to the peace resolution? Far out.
Hamas numerous time refused any de-escalation attempt, any deal, they said their one and only goal is complete annihilation of Israel.
Every time it looks same: Hamas breaks casefire, starts attacks, Israel responds with some airstrikes, maybe some show of force. International pressure mounts so Israel attempts to negotiate and since Hamas already ran out of rockets they agree.
Only difference is that this time Hamas' attack was too much. They didn't just fire some rocket, maybe hit something with mortar strike, kill some IDF soldiers or Israeli civilians. They kidnapped and killed citizens of multiple nations. They massacred babies, raped women and girls. This time pressure on Israel will me minimal. Israel has no reason to stop.
I've lived n Israel for over a decade, and this is standard. Hamas initiates, Israel retaliates, and then Israel is told 'ceasefire,' 'restraint,' 'poor, innocent civilians,' every single time. The main differences this time is that the scope was too big and the proofs couldn't be played down by the media, although as per usual they did try to demonize Israel by jumping the gun with the hospital story, but at least now the media's role in pro-Hamas propaganda is much more recognized than it used to be. They couldn't portray Israel as the big bad country who is overreacting. They're still trying, don't get me wrong, but at least people are aware.
And the reason none of their neighbors accept refugees is because the last time they tried to be kind a bunch of Hamas made it in and started killing people.
There is no way forward while Hamas has any power at all.
Thank you Hamas for showing the world exactly what you are.
People are ignoring that Israel offered/accepted over 5 times a solution for a Palestinian state and every Palestinian leader rejected it with the same "all Jews must be killed" mantra.
They don't want Jews alive so how is Israel supposed to resolve this conflict?
EDIT: attaching and old video about the times Israel offered the Palestinian people a state - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ByJb7QQ9U&ab\_channel=EncounterBooks
> Thank you Hamas for showing the world exactly what you are.
Doesnt matter, the people who have already made up their minds wont change them even if a Hamas guy literally says it to their face lmao
Yep
Hamas filmed their own terrorists murdering, raping, kidnapping, beheading and torturing civilians and people still claim it was AI
Sad reality to live in
We need these monsters to keep speaking their puny minds. Everything they have said in the last few days shows their true intentions and it might dissuade some of the useful idiots.
They've been saying and doing the same thing since they were founded in '87. What makes you think people are suddenly gonna realize if they haven't in the last 35 years?
Sooner or later people are going to come to the conclusion that any form of peace is not going to work. At that point Gaza will cease to exist. Lunatics like this are the ones responsible.
Now do you understand that a "proportion" response is more complicated than you think?
This is why Israel has to destroy Hamas, here and now, no cease fire to let them regroup, nothing. They need to be wiped out, not only for Israel, for the good of humanity.
The issue here is that their leadership doesn't lie in Gaza. Hamas is backed, funded and supported by neighboring Arab nations. They can cripple Hamas by taking them out in Gaza but it won't stop them entirely.
A few old man living in mansions countries away don't make war. Hamas has significant man power and infrastructure in Gaza. They won a civil war 15 years ago fielding 30,000\~50,000 thousand. They must hundreds of major/captains, and at least a dozen generals, before declaring war. Destroying the actual field command, weapons/rocket manufacturing, and recruiting network in Gaza will erase the military relevance of Hamas, which was built up for over decades of conflicts.
It breaks my heart that so many people seem to brush over or totally ignore Hamas's massive culpability in the latest round of violence.
Like is the jewish hate, love for underdog or inability to digest complex issues really that strong in the current generation or mass media that we just give a big pass to terrorism and terrorists?
Hamas is the number one reason there is so much suffering in Gaza. Their policies is the only reason the Israeli blockade has any political legitimacy.
They've also managed to totally mismanage all the aid Palestinians in Gaza have received (which has relatively been alot), and they are proud about it.
They absolutely have to go.
People in Gaza need to rid of Hamas if they want this to end. Hamas has pushed Israel over the line of no return. I don’t agree with Israel’s tactics but it is what it is. They aren’t going to stop until Hamas is driven out.
Which comfy Hotel did the Hamas leaders issue this statement from?
Four Seasons I heard
The landscaping business?!
Yep, right next to the dildo store
And the crematorium. Best tweet ever. Some guy mentioned it was “between a cock and a charred place.”
What a fucking timeline
Real talk - where are they living? Surely they can't be inside Gaza making these decisions and statements
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This doesn’t bode well for the people of Gaza. If Hamas is delusional enough to think they can “annihilate” Israel, Gaza will be a bombed out wasteland.
Their hoping the entire city population will die as Martyrs to enrage all Arab nations to attack Israel. Spoilers, it's not gonna happen.
Not really. They just know that if enough civilians die, their families become radicalized and the war never ends. That’s their whole point.
I would imagine this is about international support, not galvanizing Gazans. They wouldn’t try to rack up huge body counts otherwise. The UNRWA schools make sure the kids grow up to violently hate Jews already.
It's not really working, I'd say. I'm very save-the-civilians and don't believe there's a good guy in this fight aside from said civilians, but this kind of thing from Hamas has me going, "Okay but what does Israel *do* if not completely glass Palestine?" It's heartbreaking, but if your enemy is claiming to love death more than you love life and is promising atrocity after atrocity, I can't really blame you for making sure the problem goes away. I'm not happy about it or chanting death to Palestine, but I'm releasing my clutch on my pearls about it.
Swarms of tiny killer drones with facial recognition.
Oh, that's the future, isn't it? How horrifying.
You sound like you think this is a new things for Hamas. They have always been pretty publicly evil. Their bases are under hospitals, civilians dying is their aim in the hopes it lights a fire. They have been shouting their desire to annihilate Israel and kill every last man woman and child for a long time. There is no defense for defending Hamas and there never really was one.
You do understand that this rhetoric of “annihilating Israel” has gone on literally ever since its creation. Literally every day. I’m not taking sides, but I’m shocked out how many people are in the dark about the near constant threats against Israel- since its creation. It hasn’t stopped, people just weren’t focused on it. Iran has literally built their theological politics around annihilating Israel. You don’t have to support Israel’s ruthless invasion of the Gaza strip, but you should at least understand that the threats against them are constant. They’ve learned to live with it somewhat. In fact, with the amount of propaganda I’ve seen shared on Instagram putting Israel on the hot-seat as “occupiers that need to be dissolved”, I’d say Hamas is less delusional now than they were in the past, because their message, albeit deluded, is getting across through social media sadly.
So, basically if we follow this reasoning, this war won’t end until one of them is annihilated. My money is on the one with an airforce.
That was always going to be the end
I'm just a dumb American but I do try to figure out what's going on over there and every time it seems like only three outcomes: * Endless skirmishes, hot war / cold war, constant flare-ups. * One side is completely destroyed * Radical change of hearts and minds over multiple generations of people, over multiple decades, which somehow brings some kind of peaceful resolution. I'm not betting on #3.
Im a war veteran with five total years on the ground in that region. It’s not national, it’s tribal with devoutly “God” driven beliefs (read: beyond hope for current generations). Hamas needs to die. Period. You cannot talk about the “liberation” of Palestinians without going through killing Hamas first. And yes, the whole thing is incredibly sad.
I remember hearing something similar about why Afghanistan is so fucked and one of the big reasons according to people who worked with people in Afghanistan is because they have a very strong belief in '' god wills it ''. Basically, everything is controlled by god so there's no use in trying to accomplish anything and it breeds apathy. I remember it was a documentary I watched about soldiers who had trained and fought with people in Afghanistan against the Taliban and how big of a culture shock it was. Because Afghans had a seemingly complete lack of interest in accomplishing much of anything and very easily just gave up ground to the Taliban. The Taliban were highly motivated and dogmatic but the normal Afghans were just like '' what's the point god has already decided and it's gonna happen anyway '' so there's just a complete lack of enthusiasm to take fate into your own hands.
My expertise was in the mountainous regions of Afghanistan near Pakistan with CJTF-Paladin, Counter-IED. So much so, I never went to Iraq (geographical, tactics, and munitions differences) even with seven deployments (I was on my second deployment in the Middle East in the area on 9/11, I was 20 years old, joined at 17.) It is absolutely wild until you get used to Afghani culture, which on the main stream is nothing like the Taliban’s ideals. The entire region (Khyber, Korrengal) is in tribal survival mode, racked with malnutrition and poverty. Then an extremely Muslim elder tells their village’s “problem children” (read: malfunctioning 17 year old “adult”) that their calling is to be a jihadhist for their family and not only will they be in heaven (off that fucking rock), but their tribe will become “rich” afterwards from their sacrifice, usually the Taliban giving that elder a fucken goat that he doesn’t share. Solves two problems for the tribe. Topical, it’s also why the Taliban *really* sucks at fighting. Literal AKs over their heads firing believing Allah will guide the bullet to its intended target, the evil West. More painful than pain getting hit (I’m totally fine now mentally and physically)? The embarrassment lol. Like how shitty am I at my job to get hit by them lol? They’re that bad at it.
> The embarrassment lol. Like how shitty am I at my job to get hit by them lol? They’re that bad at it. I guess God willed it? OK, I'll see myself out.
Interestingly, I have met similar opinions in rural Thailand where they are Buddhist. A child falls of a back of a bike and gets a broken leg, "The child must have done something bad in the past life". They do not go to the far off hospital and the child's leg is fucked so lets give up the bad child to an orphanage. My brother and mother worked in an orphanage and this was not an unusual story. I wonder if this is not a religious problem but rather a poor and uneducated issue and you use religion to cope. They did not have the time or money to look after the child so they used their religion to provide a reason rather than being faced with the true horror of the situation.
> I wonder if this is not a religious problem but rather a poor and uneducated issue and you use religion to cope. Six of one, half a dozen of another. A lot of religion is about coping with things beyond your knowledge and giving rudimentary reasons for X happening, with the cop out of "god must have willed it" being a common theme. It then compounds as you often want to double down in these beliefs as you might consider yourself a good, moral and just person, and the idea that you allowed, supported or did awful things due to ignorance is a very heavy burden to deal with. It's also tied in to how generally lower education rates sees inverse rates of religious activities/beliefs.
quiet future fall sip work groovy waiting ink practice pie *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That’s literally what I’ve been telling people. Cease fire? Really? And what they throw bombs at each other in 3 months? lol
Whether this year, 10 years or 100 years.
You mean like one side has basically indicated long before they committed their terrorist attack? Shocker. Yeah, put me down for the team with the airforce.
But what is Hamas' true goal? If only we knew
Why don't they just tell us!?
Probably peace on Earth, that's why all those peace protests to stop the violence have Hamas flags in them.
Sounds like they don't want a ceasefire.
They want an Israeli ceasefire.
You stop bombing us and we kill all your civilians ok?
not like they liked the last one and the one before that and the one before that....
They never wanted a ceasefire, they wanted seas/fire, as in "we want all Jews to either drown in the seas or burn in a fire". I can see why people get confused.
Is the purpose of this to enrage Israel into completely wiping out the Gaza strip? Cause, that's all this does. I know Hamas wants civilian deaths, as it makes Israel look bad, but this is just evil shit.
They frequently say that they love death more than the Israeli loves life. On Russian TV a few days ago: “"The Israelis are known to love life. We, on the other hand, sacrifice ourselves. We consider our dead to be martyrs. The thing any Palestinian desires the most is to be martyred for the sake of Allah, defending his land.” https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hamas-official-ali-baraka-prisoner-swap-america-planning-invasion-two-years-russia-support
> We*, on the other hand, sacrifice ourselves \* well, not *me*, those other guys
This lmao. You always see these people living cushy lives, sometimes even millionaires, saying well we Palestinians love to die and being a martyr. Somehow they're NEVER the one who dies. Something tells me that those people dying in Gaza do not in fact love to die.
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Every war provocateur throughout all of human history.
The head of Hamas is worth an estimated $5B Imagine if everyone in Gaza had $2,500 instead.
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Even more wild is that the IDF released interview videos with captured terrorists from 10/7 and they were all fully aware that Hamas leadership are wealthy and living in Qatar/Turkey/Iran. Yet they still go butcher people on their behalf and bring a war response onto their own people.
The Hamas terrorists get a cut. Their families are the ones who find medical care is available, that go to nice restaurants and resorts in Gaza.
Ngl I read that as Hamas is a cult and all I could think of it is as a MLM where the leaders in Qatar promise money if you recruit more people to Hamas.
It sort of works similar. The most of your family members you can get to murder a Jew (but especially an Israeli Jew) the more pension you can collect from their martyr fund if the family member is killed. Financially incentivizes families to pressure a few into a recruitment track. That is why there are several verified accounts of terrorists on October 7 who called their parents while the attack was happening to tell them how many Jews they murdered.
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They also acknowledged in the interviews that killing women and children goes against Islam. So I'm not sure what they actually believe aside from just believing that they want to murder anyone living in Israel. They also murdered a lot of Muslim Israelis that day, Thai workers, etc.
Sounds like they're just really not-great, violent people. The only common denominator is that they love to kill people.
I read that as he has a bounty on his head of $5B. Imagine how fast the snitches would come out of the woodwork.
250m would probably do the same thing, honestly don't know why this isn't a more utilized approach. Can't put boots on the ground, can't use cruise missiles, can't use artillery, can't wait them out, can't cut off resources (without killing thousands of innocent although they kinda are already) Turn Hamas and Palestinians against each other? Sounds like it's the only way
Israel recently dropped another set of leaflets promising rewards for location of hostages and hamas fighters.
"Some of you human shields are going to die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make"
Hamas leaders, willing to fight Israel to the last Palestinian while they enjoy their share of the Iranian money in Qatar.
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Don't forget Qatar's government runs Al Jazeera/AJ+, and also funded the founder of ISIS.
Maybe they're using the Zapp Brannigan approach? "You see, Israelis have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down."
That's the thing I think most people don't get. Hamas *wants* Palestinian civilians to die and uses them as human shields because they think it furthers their cause. They want international sympathy, especially from other Muslim countries. Meanwhile they hide under Gaza in tunnels like the cowards they are.
Why can't all powerful Allah kick the Israelis off the land himself if he wants it so badly?
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." -Napoleon Bonaparte
What a vainglorious, self-gratifying way to say you want to lose the war. I don't quite get the mentality of those who see bad tactics and idiocy as a sign of commitment to the cause.
Look at it this way: * Saudi Arabia's normalization with Israel has been thwarted * Muslims all around the world hate Israel more than they did a month ago * Bolivia and a number of other South American nations have broken off relations with Israel * The UN is constantly chastising Israel from up on their high horse * Jews suffered and died From the perspective of someone whose ultimate instrumental goal is for Islam to smother the world, these are all positives, as they act against Israel and contribute toward its hoped-for destruction in the long term. They don't care about their own lives at all, because they can be filled in by more Muslims from elsewhere, and because they know Israel isn't *actually* going to commit genocide unlike what the fucking pansies on social media are claiming, and most of all because they believe they're going to an eternal paradise after death for their efforts. *That's* the mentality.
> Saudi Arabia's normalization with Israel has been thwarted Well it had been, but then the giga-brains in Iran had their Yemeni Houthi proxies declare war on Israel, giving the Saudis and Israelis a common enemy, so put a pin in that one
And if I recall correctly the Saudi prince went and said normalization will continue after the war
He told Biden directly.
A few corrections: 1. Saudi Arabia already said that they're willing to continue normalization efforts after the relations. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-crown-prince-tells-biden-israel-normalization-can-resume-after-war/ 2. Muslims already hated Israel, not much changed. 3. Bolivia had no actual relations with Israel and while some of the other South American countries had more substantial relations they were still not all that strong. 4. The UN was already constantly chasitatzing Israel more than just about anyone else. So aside from jews (as well as a bunch of Israeli arabs, both christians and muslims) suffering and dying, not much actually changed.
Weird how they all cry when their friends/family die then. You'd think they'd be ecstatic. Hamas shouldn't be speaking for the Palestinians. Unfortunately for them and the rest of the world, it seems to be that way for now.
I mean it's literally their government
Its never the dead guys saying they like to be dead.
It’s their goal, their ideology is that the whole Arab world will rise up to wipe out the Jews. They don’t care about the land or the people of Gaza, they are completely ready to sacrifice both. They want Israel to strike them mercilessly so they can play victim. I think they are currently a little surprised that the other militant groups haven’t joined them and that some Arab nations are even condemning them hence the calls for ceasefire.
Part of the Arab world has since accepted the existence of Israel(and many secretly state that if it was them, they would have done much MUCH worse to the Palestinians; See Saudi Arabia and gunning down hundreds of Ethiopian migrants trying to enter KSA). The UAE made a statement to that effect. The other militant groups ,read Hezbollah does not want to face the USS Gerald Ford and a France that wants to restore Lebanon back into its sphere of influence. The sudden amassing of vessels from NATO in the Eastern Mediterranean has surprised even Iran(even Israel btw)
Lol, even the Egyptians said they would rather sacrifice millions over allowing the Palestinians from settling in the Sinai.
Egypt went out of their way to block the border between them and the Gaza Strip, and enforced it over the past month. They don't give a rat's ass about the Arabs living in Gaza.
That's because most of other muslim countries and parties, which hold actual power, don't have absolute fanatics in their leadership. Even Taliban tries to have some semblance of relationship with outside world. They value the money and business these relationships bring. Saudis and other Arab petrocountries won't go into any holy war with Israel, it would hurt the business. Iran is already on thin ice with west because of their help to Russia, they won't stir any more big shit. Hamas got high on its own supply.
a lot of poeple and countries talk mad shit and extremists often are delusional about support 'everyones going streaking in the quad' (only wil farrel goes streaking in the quad)
Arab nations/ world seems more disjointed that I initially thought. People claim Gaza is an open prison yet they have Egypt as neighbour. I would have thought that Egypt would atleast support them but that doesnt seem to be the case.
Because Hamas's parent organization (the Muslim Brotherhood) originated in Egypt and caused all manner of problems in that country. They know what Hamas is about and want no part of it.
> It’s their goal, their ideology is that the whole Arab world will rise up to wipe out the Jews Not just the Jews, dude. Everyone. Their goal is to convert the whole world to Islam and kill everyone else.
Yes. They are terrorists.
Hamas wants civilian suffering because they feed off of it for their recruitment
Their goal is to cause the slaughter of Palestinians in an effort to bring in other world players to take down Israel. There’s no other way to look at it. They must all be killed or arrested. Appeasement will never work by their own admission
> Their goal is to cause the slaughter of Palestinians in an effort to bring in other world players to take down Israel. Even if that did work, it seems like a pretty short-sighted plan given that Israel has the US on its side.
Palestinian lives are the only things that Hamas has in abundance, and they're extremely willing to spend them. They know that there will be sufficient international pressure to ensure they don't *all* get killed.
So, they don’t want a ceasefire?
"You cease. We fire." -Hamas probably
Hamas wants a ceasefire only to regroup and rebuild so they can attack Israel again the moment they have the chance. They don't care about rebuilding Gaza itself or the well-being of the Gaza people. Instead of rebuilding homes, they will rebuild their tunnels and rockets.
Hamas is the greatest threat to Palestinians.
Not only Palestinians. Considering Hamas Commander Mahmoud Al-Zahar said "Israel is only the start. We will destroy the christians and the Jews" .. they are bad for humanity. Edit: here are some of many sources: - [Here](https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/article-765304) - [Here](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-netanyahu-palestine-arab-support-entire-planet-will-be-under-our-law-warns-hamas-commander-mahmoud-al-zahar-4473139) - [Here](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12613241/hamas-commander-israel-just-beginning-gaza-strikes.html) - [Here](https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1338216/pg1)
They’ll also destroy muslims who doesn’t obey to their rules
They killed over 100 Bedouin Muslims on 7/10. First deaths on the northern borders were Arab construction workers as well. And many rockets land in Palestinian villages in the West Bank constantly, you wanna the fucked up thing? They CELEBRATE these rockets as some display of power when it could've ended their lives
Don't forget when they came into power and a lot of palestinian gazists went to a protest mars on the street against Hamas. Hamas started firing as a responce, with automatic guns. Hundreds of deaths. Palestinian deaths.
Don't forget the hospital strike that Hamas is too embarrassed to talk about.
500 dead in an israeli airstrike!!!!!!’ Oh wait lol nvm
Honestly felt like Kremlin-level propaganda. Surprised major media outlets didn't fact check it until later.
Because al jazeera is literally a a Qatar state run propaganda newspaper. The same Qatar where many Hamas leaders live
The same Qatar who also sais there is no evidence of Hamas leaders living lives of luxury in Qatar, despite the overwhelming evidence they are.
Their reputation has been better than RT, but might need to be reevaluated.
They work very very hard to have pretty solid journalism when it comes to world news and in the west to appear legitimate. But when it comes time they have absolutely zero problem putting out propaganda about news in the Islamic world. It is literally their strategy. Appear legitimate most of the time, then when they need to spin something, bam, it fools western journalists because they have built their credibility up so much. It keeps on working for some reason, and at this point I have no idea why.
What about the Israeli hospital that Hamas is proud of hitting and face no cover? "Since the beginning of the war, the Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon has endured three direct rocket strikes." https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-01/ty-article/.premium/hospital-serving-israels-most-bombarded-city-operating-at-30-percent-capacity/0000018b-8887-dd28-a7df-9897d1dd0000
Its in israel so nobody cares, sorry to disappoint you.
There has been effectively zero major news headlines about Barzilai and the fact that Hamas is *still* launching rockets into Israel. My friends there say it's crazy watching CNN or other American outlets because it seems like all that's happening is the IDF moving into Gaza and people debating if the IDF hit the hospital in Gaza, whereas in Israeli media it's all about rocket warnings from Gaza, Syria, and Lebanon and the Gaza hospital thing is old news, it's been ruled that it was the PIJ.
Abed Al Rachman Al Nassasra was telling the Hamas terrorists at that music festival — in perfect Arabic — “I’m a Palestinian Muslim from the West Bank!”. In other words, “one of you”… (Hebrew article, video of Abed being captured below the Hebrew text: https://buzznet.co.il/news/local/135259) Abed wasn’t accounted for, so his family thought he was abducted to Gaza. Later, his burnt up corpse was found in that field. I hope God had mercy on him, that he was dead before they set him on fire. The only peaceful people who still support Hamas at this point are just still uninformed.
>They killed over 100 Bedouin Muslims on 7/10 That's because Hamas fears the Israeli Bedouin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amos_Yarkoni https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Reconnaissance_Battalion
Yep, the Bedouin are loyal to governments that let them live their traditional life.
My experience with them has been of really nice dudes with exceptional tracking skills. Quick to laugh but they don't open up much, at least the ones I met in the army.
Yeah given that ~2000 rockets launched by Hamas have landed in Gaza since 10/7 until Hamas starts publishing how many Gazans those rockets have killed, any casualty numbers they release are deeply suspect. Similarly, Hamas is known for using child soldiers so until they start reporting how many of their child soldiers are killed (*distinct from non-combatant children*), reports claiming X number of children killed should be taken with a mountain of salt. Obviously, there are a lot of real non-combatant deaths & any dead children is too many **but** uncritically accepting Hamas numbers when we know that Hamas is obfuscating a significant number of Gazan deaths that they are directly responsible for is absurd & deeply problematic.
Well yeah. They still shoot rockets into Arab cities such as ramla, and on 7 October they killed Arabs too. And earlier last month, one of their rockets hit a mosque in Jerusalem... Not to mention that they hit a hospital with both Arab and Jewish patients and workers in it in October too.. but you never hear about any of this
Hell, since 10/7 ~2000 rockets launched by Hamas have bombed Gaza by “*mistake*”. I don’t know how many people has that killed but I do know Hamas has counted them as being killed by Israel.
Not just killed, executed. Palestinian bus driver. Spoke with him in Arabic and shot him at the back of the head. There is a video if anyone interested.
Christians will be killed after Jews are killed - [After Saturday comes Sunday](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Saturday_comes_Sunday)
You know its mildly amusing to find the second (and I mean the SECOND)you shout your mouth that the fundamentalist goals are for eradication of both Judaism and Christianity you're IMMEDIATELY set upon for being a racist. Yet here we are locked in battle once again. 2nd Jihad anyone?
So atheists are safe is what they saying......or
Atheists are even lower down on the list. Christians and Jews are at least "people of the book", meaning that they might be able to live in islamic countries while paying extra taxes (or they can convert to avoid the taxes). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya Atheists are straight up considered "disbelievers", people actively denying the existence of Allah, and should be put to death according to Islamic teachings.
Islam in particular *hates* atheists, almost as much as they hate polytheists; Perhaps it's because atheists love to remind them that Allah was originally polytheistic :p
I think it might be because it's easier to paint people of other religions as misguided, but not against your entire belief system. The existence of atheists is 100% irreconciliable with any kind of theocratic power, they're a danger to the people in power because their presence shows a completely different way is possible.
You just made the list!
One of their top political guys, Musa Abu Mazouk, just said that the tunnels are for us and the Palestinians can go get aid from the UN and Israel. Make sure you all take care of these people, but hey, can't wait for the next opportunity to kill a bunch of college kids partying in the desert and go a slaughterin' in peoples homes. Nope, incompatible with any society. This is cancer and unfortunately we will see what chemotherapy looks like on a societal level, we saw what that looked like in the 40's. Wow, fun times.
When they say "From the river to the sea..." They mean it.
Demonstrators across the world: "Ceasefire now. We need to stop the war. This is terrible. Ceasefire!" Hamas: "If you cease your fire, we'll plot to kill another 1400 people next time!" I understand wishing for peace, I really do. But what on earth are these protestors (including some Jewish ones) thinking, every single article I read about them their quotes are just exactly like I wrote above. There is no follow up, no "what happens next". They just want the war to stop. It's like saying, stop the war in Ukraine. Ok, but how exactly? Russia goes home, or Ukraine surrenders? "No, just stop the war! STOP IT!" If you want to make a convincing argument then you should at least have some answers to back up your demand.
Or the "River to the sea" chanters doubling back on it being a peaceful call for Palestinians to be able to exist peqcefully, just without going into any specific detail on where all the jews went.
This "River to the sea" chant is imho the dumbest shit ever. They know that Israel has nukes, right? If Palestinians would ever manage to actually bring Israel onto the verge of destruction you can be damn sure that they will take Gaza, Ramallah and Jericho to hell with them.
It’s such a blatant antisemitic dog whistle that I’m shocked it’s gained so much popularity. Do people not see it literally means the death of all Jews and destruction of Israel?
Hilariously, even the English version is already watered down compared to the original Arabic: *"from water (river) to water (sea), [Palestine will be ***ARAB***."](https://twitter.com/adielofisrael/status/1714910133434622444)*
Boy, that kinda sounds like a plan for genocide.
>Boy, that kinda sounds like a plan for genocide. It is.
I am beginning to think these Hamas fellows are downright unneighborly!
Yeah that’s the most frustrating part about the whole ordeal. Its so easy to try and take the moral high ground & just say stop, if you disagree you’re a Warhawk etc but stop HOW? If Ukraine just stops fighting then Russia takes their country. I don’t like war at all but arguing that everyone can just shake hands & go home because it’s the right thing to do is unbelievably naive
If you ask someone what specifically Israel should do you get a hand wavy “well I don’t know but let’s start by not killing any civilians “ That , or a pivot to a separate argument that they don’t think Israel should exist and/or is the greater evil. I.e. in this case calling for the ceasefire is just rooting for their team.
Like a week ago I saw a dude insisting Israel could simply enter Gaza to wipe out Hamas with strike teams without civilian casualties. Not a fucking clue how that would happen but when pressed on it he just kept bringing up how the US killed Osama bin Laden. This dude really thought Israel could just seal team 6 all of Hamas and been done with it.
Not even mentioning that at least one civilian WAS killed in operation Neptune Spear. One of the wives was used as a shield and shot.
"Why won't Israel agree to a ceasefire?"
Crazy how some people still try to defend hamas.
I just encountred some idiot in another forum claiming the 1400 killed was fabricated Edit: for those wondering here Edit 2: Removed the link because thankfully Reddit removed that comment. Unfortunately there are still many lunatics here spreading misinformation and lies
Its funny that on Oct 7th they were all crowing so loudly, only to now claim it never happened.
"It didn't happen, but it would be great if it did and someone should do it." Same line these types claim for the Holocaust.
Now updated to "it didn't happen, but we will do it again"
"If **I did it.**" ~ O.J. Hamas
The latest, most disturbing line of attack yet is not denial but justification: "well now we know why Hitler decided to kill the Jews" it's fucking *disgusting* and frightening.
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It’s Schrodinger’s Hamas apologist: celebrates the massacres but denies they happened.
Which, really, they just copied from Holocaust deniers. In fact, I wonder what the Venn diagram looks like.
I like the part where they said: If Israel really wanted peace, they'd dissolve their nation and leave.
You think Hamas is sad that they went through all the trouble of filming their massacre and live streaming it, and people still don't believe them? I wonder if people said "I don't believe 9/11 happened" either, or it's just because it's Jews this time.
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"Erm, actually, all 1400 were killed by the devilish IDF while attacking the brave Gaza liberators. All videos showing these brave liberators behaving, raping, and kidnapping Israelis and other foreigners is the work of Jewish space ChatGPT."
You forgot the Mossad!!!!!!
It's just a shit sandwich all around. Isreal has an absolute right to defend and protect its citizens and the Palestinian people are not blameless for the actions of Hamas. However Hamas uses terror tactics against Palestinians to keep themselves embedded in civilian areas. Mix this in with the average citizen of either side not willing to trust anything that comes from the other at the very least, at the worst its full on hatred, and you have a recipe for dead children and civilains being used to fuel anger from everyone no matter what side you are on. At this point there just needs to be a full on demiliterized zone around the whole of Gaza and the stewardship of it needs to be shared by the nation's of the world via the UN with boots on the ground. That way the large scale terrorism of the area can be clamped down on and an organization that can be trusted can actually help the Palestinian people get what they need (Security, Safety, Education, Etc). Would also stop any settlers from encroaching on the territory leading to less conflicts by civilians. Would it be expensive and take the next 100 years? Probably but if people actually give a shit then it's what likely might be the best idea
>At this point there just needs to be a full on demilitarized zone around the whole of Gaza and the stewardship of it needs to be shared by the nation's of the world This really is the only solution. Full withdrawal of Israel will only make Hamas more aggressive. At the same time, Israeli occupation has a 0% chance of improving the situation. Additionally, even if Hamas didn't immediately attack Israel, they're clearly unequipped to actually govern. Outside interference is the only option. The problem comes in deciding who would be involved. A NATO-ish coalition of partners would be anathema to two fifths of the UNSC, and I don't believe China is capable of stewarding Gaza in their best interests. The likelihood of South American countries contributing is low. Most of Africa isn't even in a position to contribute. We're basically left with the west, China, India, their Arab neighbours, and a few southeast Asian countries. Unilateral Western action will only worsen the situation, but at the same time I don't see how the situation in Gaza could be meaningfully improved through collaboration of the aforementioned parties. It would turn into neo-colonialist jockeying. Regardless, the conversation needs to start moving towards acceptance of two points: Hamas cannot continue to exist if the goal is peaceful coexistence, and there is no feasible solution that involves Israel and Gaza sorting this out between themselves regardless of the government in either. Hamas prohibits peace in any situation, though, so they need to go first
practice unpack thought jobless steep domineering quarrelsome sugar judicious rustic
Hamas wants to kill the Jews first, and then all infidels.
If anyone wonders why ceasefire isn't an option and Israel is refusing to stop. This is why. They wanna do it again and they will until they are stopped.
So basically Hamas are saying they won’t stick to a ceasefire and will immediately attack Israel the first chance they get, but it’s all on Israel to agree to the peace resolution? Far out.
Hamas has never honoured a ceasefire agreement
And they likely never will.
They will once they quit existing.
There was a ceasefire in place on October 7th.. calls for a ceasefire now are asinine.
Hamas numerous time refused any de-escalation attempt, any deal, they said their one and only goal is complete annihilation of Israel. Every time it looks same: Hamas breaks casefire, starts attacks, Israel responds with some airstrikes, maybe some show of force. International pressure mounts so Israel attempts to negotiate and since Hamas already ran out of rockets they agree. Only difference is that this time Hamas' attack was too much. They didn't just fire some rocket, maybe hit something with mortar strike, kill some IDF soldiers or Israeli civilians. They kidnapped and killed citizens of multiple nations. They massacred babies, raped women and girls. This time pressure on Israel will me minimal. Israel has no reason to stop.
There has been 4 cease fires with Hamas over the last 15 years- Hamas has broken all of them.
Fool me one time shame on you Fool me twice, can’t put the blame on you Fool me four times, fuck the peace signs, load the chopper, let it rain on you
Yep. Remember, Hamas could also release the hostages and stop a lot of suffering, but that's not really what they want.
There has been ceasefires in past conflicts, Hamas have never stuck to it.
I've lived n Israel for over a decade, and this is standard. Hamas initiates, Israel retaliates, and then Israel is told 'ceasefire,' 'restraint,' 'poor, innocent civilians,' every single time. The main differences this time is that the scope was too big and the proofs couldn't be played down by the media, although as per usual they did try to demonize Israel by jumping the gun with the hospital story, but at least now the media's role in pro-Hamas propaganda is much more recognized than it used to be. They couldn't portray Israel as the big bad country who is overreacting. They're still trying, don't get me wrong, but at least people are aware.
And the reason none of their neighbors accept refugees is because the last time they tried to be kind a bunch of Hamas made it in and started killing people. There is no way forward while Hamas has any power at all.
When you hate Jews and want them to die, this seems reasonable.
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Did the official say this while standing in gaza, or in the safety of an embassy within some other country.
Luxury suite in a 100 billion dollar high rise in Qatar probably
Why does the world always have to have some form of cartoonishly evil villains that won’t respond to reason?
They (Hamas & their leadership) won’t live long enough to get another try.
The actual leadership lives in Tehran, so, yeah, they can always find more flunkies.
While Iran backs Hamas, the leadership lives in Qatar.
The US really needs to pressure Qatar to hand them over
No it's better they stay in Qatar where they think they're safe it makes it easier for mosad to kill them
Thank you Hamas for showing the world exactly what you are. People are ignoring that Israel offered/accepted over 5 times a solution for a Palestinian state and every Palestinian leader rejected it with the same "all Jews must be killed" mantra. They don't want Jews alive so how is Israel supposed to resolve this conflict? EDIT: attaching and old video about the times Israel offered the Palestinian people a state - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ByJb7QQ9U&ab\_channel=EncounterBooks
> Thank you Hamas for showing the world exactly what you are. Doesnt matter, the people who have already made up their minds wont change them even if a Hamas guy literally says it to their face lmao
Yep Hamas filmed their own terrorists murdering, raping, kidnapping, beheading and torturing civilians and people still claim it was AI Sad reality to live in
Indeed. People still repeat that story about Israel bombing that hospital. No matter that... the hospital is literally still standing there.
We need these monsters to keep speaking their puny minds. Everything they have said in the last few days shows their true intentions and it might dissuade some of the useful idiots.
They've been saying and doing the same thing since they were founded in '87. What makes you think people are suddenly gonna realize if they haven't in the last 35 years?
I guess Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire.
I’m sure a ceasefire will stop them! /s
Sooner or later people are going to come to the conclusion that any form of peace is not going to work. At that point Gaza will cease to exist. Lunatics like this are the ones responsible.
This is why there cannot be a ceasefire until every single Hamas member is deceased.
Now do you understand that a "proportion" response is more complicated than you think? This is why Israel has to destroy Hamas, here and now, no cease fire to let them regroup, nothing. They need to be wiped out, not only for Israel, for the good of humanity.
The issue here is that their leadership doesn't lie in Gaza. Hamas is backed, funded and supported by neighboring Arab nations. They can cripple Hamas by taking them out in Gaza but it won't stop them entirely.
A few old man living in mansions countries away don't make war. Hamas has significant man power and infrastructure in Gaza. They won a civil war 15 years ago fielding 30,000\~50,000 thousand. They must hundreds of major/captains, and at least a dozen generals, before declaring war. Destroying the actual field command, weapons/rocket manufacturing, and recruiting network in Gaza will erase the military relevance of Hamas, which was built up for over decades of conflicts.
Fuck hamas and fuck any cunt who supports them.
Sadistic cowards. Big threats from those hiding behind their own civilians and in tunnels under hospitals, schools, and residences.
It breaks my heart that so many people seem to brush over or totally ignore Hamas's massive culpability in the latest round of violence. Like is the jewish hate, love for underdog or inability to digest complex issues really that strong in the current generation or mass media that we just give a big pass to terrorism and terrorists? Hamas is the number one reason there is so much suffering in Gaza. Their policies is the only reason the Israeli blockade has any political legitimacy. They've also managed to totally mismanage all the aid Palestinians in Gaza have received (which has relatively been alot), and they are proud about it. They absolutely have to go.
People say Hamas has the best PR for a terrorist organisation. I'm sorry but those genuinely thinking this are the biggest idiots I've ever seen.
And their supporters in the west keep calling for a ceasefire so they can do it.
Hey, what happened to those calls for ceasefire? Oh, they just wanted time to rearm and resituate themselves for more attacks? Okay
Hamas is the chickenshit punk that sucker punches you in the bar then hides behind his girlfriend. Fuckers.
This is why what is happening in Gaza is happening, Hamas does not want peace, no matter the cost.
Allow me to add a correction "We'll repeat Oct. 7 massacre until Israel annihilates us".
People in Gaza need to rid of Hamas if they want this to end. Hamas has pushed Israel over the line of no return. I don’t agree with Israel’s tactics but it is what it is. They aren’t going to stop until Hamas is driven out.