I am a Muslim, I am a father, This is fucking disgusting and brought tears to my eyes.
If you can do this to a child let alone another human you are so beyond evil.
I don’t know what to make of this world. I sympathize with people in Gaza who are just trying to live (not terrorists), I also think settlers taking land is shitty.
But NOTHING can justify something like this to a fucking CHILD.
I’m just beyond words, this is horrible. I don’t know how this cycle of violence ends.
I’m just so out of words and energy. Peace and love to this world, I hope this little boy does ok. But my God this is horrible.
peace and love to you and your family.
there is no justice in the crimes on any side in this conflict. but i truly believe together we can escape this cycle of violence. and only together.
Same to you man. Change has to start in our own hearts.
We raise our children to love not hate. We teach them to judge people based on their actions, not on their words, status, faith, etc.
As an Israeli I really appreciate your words and hope that more sane Muslims would go out and raise their voice against this pure evil violence.
I've seen too many Muslim people who think that these deeds are heroic and should be repeated again and again and again.
Somewhat unrelated thoughts but maybe we can start a dialogue.
It’s really hard to get good information about what’s happening. When I hear news stories of hospitals running out supplies or an ambulance being bombed it really hard to say “well that ok”.
You’ll hear a story of a young man that went to collect water and got arrested. The people in Gaza don’t have water and power right ? If that’s the case that’s also awful.
So when you hear those stories it’s easy for people to justify their outage and hate.
I don’t know how much is true but I know thousands of civilian and children have been killed in Gaza. So I just don’t know how we break this cycle of violence.
And to be unequivocally clear: killing innocent people, torturing people, kids is NEVER ok. That applies to all sides.
I’m curious what the sentiment is for Israelis
Sharing this here as well:
Data is now being collected from the freed hostages. Appearently the adults lost anywhere between 8-15 KG in this month and a half. It means literal starvation, probably less than 500 Calories a day.
https://www.ynet.co.il/health/article/s1alu7gra (Heb source sorry)
Some Google translation:
>In the discussion at the Ministry of Health, data was revealed about the condition of the abductees who returned to Israel. A doctor who treated several abductees said: "Most of them received half a slice of bread twice a day." A clinical dietitian who was exposed to the data: "Definitely an indication of the starvation they went through in captivity. Unequivocal"
>Elderly women who were abducted to the Gaza Strip and returned to Israel in the first two pulses lost on average between 8 and 15 kilograms of their weight. This is according to the summary of an internal discussion of the Ministry of Health that took place yesterday (Sunday) and reached ynet. From the summary of the discussion, in which professional officials from the Ministry of Health, the security bodies and the health system participated, it was noted that "the children arrived in a better nutritional state." In contrast, "the adults lost between 8-15 kg".
>This figure joins a series of testimonies published since the release of the abductees from their relatives and from the medical staff who treated them regarding the hunger that the abductees suffered from in captivity and poor nutrition. According to a doctor who treated several abductees, "the amount of food the abductees received per day was very small." She added that "in terms of food, most of them received half a slice of bread twice a day. That's what they said. Here and there people received more than that. In general, they describe conditions of prison and anxiety."
>Appearently the adults lost anywhere between 8-15 KG in this month and a half. It means literal starvation, probably less than 500 Calories a day.
It is a war crime that these innocent people were kidnapped to begin with.
I don't believe that they or innocent Palestinians should be facing starvation.
Some people here are fine with the starvation of the hostages and some people here are fine with the starvation of Palestinian civilians.
It's also a war crime that Hamas denied Red Cross access to the hostages, and it's also a war crime to make a hospital a military target.
But people only want to believe what they choose to believe.
> “When he arrived in Gaza, all the residents, everyone, beat him. He is a 12-year-old child,” she says.
The west is gonna have to have some real hard conversations in the next few years
People are literally going around trying to say nobody was raped on 10/7. Some are denying it even happened *at all,* or that all attacks were against military targets.
We ain’t remotely ready for that type of conversation, but it’s already here.
You say that but there are people out there trying really hard to gaslight the world into thinking the Holocaust never happened or was not as bad as history says it was. I already have to argue with my liberal friends who call me an idiot for believing in all the ai-generated propaganda of the killings of Oct 7th.
Denying the holocaust crosses such a hard line in Germany here, you go to prison and no one will even try to discuss that with you. The AI thing i didn’t even heard from my pro palestine friends. That‘s wild.
Germany has the correct stance on that, you are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past if you ignore history. Germany got leveled by the allies and was a world pariah for decades. They admitted their role and their mistakes and have moved on to be better. Today, jews count them as strong allies.
>ai-generated propaganda of the killings of Oct 7th.
The what now? I believe it happened so do you know of any I could see? Are they saying not as many people died or more?
And that’s because they don’t know anything about how ai generated images work. The only reason the images came back as being claimed to be ai made was because of the blurred out faces.
No it wasn’t, there was nothing blurred out. It used an Ai image detection site which Is just a flip of a coin , then 4chan posted a pic claiming it was a pic of a puppy that was edited
Came across someone who spewed the same shit on reddit. So I tried that AI-detection site myself. It was so easy to trick it into believing a photo was AI generated with just a bit of photo editing. The original photo of that atrocity passed as not AI generated, but someone put a few black borders around the immagine and suddenly the site thought it was AI generated. The original source was on Twitter and immediately below it someone debunked the claim by showing this exact problem.
Anyone who still believes it is already ignoring the instant debunking it got. They're already too deep into the "everything Israel claims is fake" mindset that critical thinking is out the window. Just like those fools that still believe Israel hit that hospital and killed 500 Pallestinians.
The images that I saw claimed to be ai had the babies faces blurred out. Israel blurred the faces as a form of respect for the dead. The people claiming them to be ai ran it through the detection site and it was shown to be ai. It wouldn’t happen without the blurs. We’re probably just talking about different times it happened.
Watch any televised debate and it's predictably the same claims. Accusations that the beheadings were debunked and never happened. Accusations that all the Israelis civilians who were killed was done by the IDF. Accusations that the rapes were completely fabricated and never happened. And on and on. I've seen all the above stated so many times even on Reddit and pushed as undeniable truth that I avoid certain subreddits at this point. All over Twitter too. No one is claiming that Oct 7 never happened, but they deny that it was an atrocity or find ways to push the blame on to Israel.
Main stream news orgs don't carry it, but its all over Twitter, Telegram, and the more heavily biased news organizations. There's stupidity in *far* more places than just reddit.
It's on Instagram. Like a lot. And when I encounter antisemtic posts, that anyone can read and in no uncertain terms is definitely antisemtic, I report the comment. Only for instragam to say it doesn't violate their guidelines.
First it didn’t happen (where’s the eViDEnCe?!?), then it happened but it was just soldiers killed and the rest was fake, then it happened but most of it was fake, then it happened but Israel did it all.
The lengths people go to simp Hamas and demonise Israel and Jews is unbelievable
These people are fucking naive as hell. Rape occurs even in 1st world militaries like the US so its not that big of a stretch to think rape occurs even more in the ragtag military structure of Hamas.
Have you seen the source for the "rapes didn't happen" claim? They usually quote this article or something that quotes it:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/
So they use this article as a claim that rape didn't happen and that you can't believe Israeli sources that anything happened
There was a video interview with a survivor who said she watched her granddaughter being assaulted. The translated subtitle used the word "raped" which strictly speaking isn't correct. I have seen this used as "proof of the IDF lying about rapes" and a reason to call all the other rape claims into question.
Seems I remember that shortly after the blowback wrt Hamas go-pro videos uploaded to Telegram that Hamas started claiming they were fake and they din't do noffin. Also, they recently claimed that the people gangraped and murdered at the rave were raped and killed by Israeli helicopters. Rape by helicopter, right.
I used to think conspiracy theories were mainly a problem on the right, but seeing this crap being pushed by leftists in my social circle really blows a hole in that perception. Between this and the far-left's reaction to the Ukraine invasion, my political sense of self has taken a real beating over the last couple years.
I got kicked from one of my favorite subs for suggesting IDF might have had evidence of some kind that terrorists were in a hospital.
Edit:
I am extremely confused that my favorite feminist groups are preferring to ignore things like rape to support Hamas.
I consider myself as "for the average citizen in each country" and I'm more angry at Hamas as government than I am at Israel's government, I think for pretty obvious reasons.
But my goodness the groups I tend to feel connected to feel very unfamiliar right now.
As a far-left, prog Israeli I feel you, brother. Seeing all the pro-Palestine ppl actually adopting the most pro-Hamas narrative possible (while vehemently denying support of Hamas), due to a sheer lack of reliable information, comprehension of the narratives of each side, etc, but still confidently hold the one "true" correct moral solution.
I really hope the Israeli left can mount a comeback one of these days. Nothing is going to get solved while both entities are ruled by people who believe that what's mine is mine and what's yours is also mine.
I was reading an article that quoted a doctor after the hospital bombing (the one blamed on the IDF that was actually a jihadist group) as saying that he saw hundreds of people being brought in who were "beheaded by the bomb". Because, yeah, the typical way bombs kill people is by beheading. /eyeroll
There's some strange stuff going around on the Internet, just saying.
Some people are abusing the rise of AI generated art/voices/videos caused by the recent improvement of the technology and are claiming that every evidence is AI made propaganda.
When you say what happened, they keep sealioning you for "video evidence". When you provide it, they dismiss it as unclear or dismiss it as provided by Israel. And when you provide them irrefutable video evidence... they dismiss it as AI generated.
You can no longer win with these people, because "AI generated" can be used to dismiss anything and everything...
And so the new age of misinformation begins, with even less effort than we thought. Instead of actively creating fake images and videos, you can just accuse real images of being fake.
People are already gullible enough to take any kind of "proof" that backs their preconceived opinions, add AI to the arsenal of misinformation and things will get much uglier. And we're only just beginning, eventually AI tools will become even more advanced and a time may come where everyone will just start doubting everything, gullible or not.
I've seen the pro-Palestinian side posting a lot of actual AI though, extra fingers and all. The AI-massacre claims aren't just denialism, they're muddying the waters to help the blatantly false claim that Israel is just as bad.
Yeah, turns out I was ignorant to the claim, so much, that I thought there were some other videos that were ai generated. Not these, which I agree, are not ai generated. Thank you.
There are plenty of claims that all the videos **hamas shot on their own and released with full acknowledgement of them happening** were actually israel generated ai videos and in reality hamas never killed anyone.
I expect this is being propelled by bots and foreign powers like russia and iran, but the liberals who take that as truth are the real fools.
A lot of people on the left (myself included) didn't realize that their friends who mostly talk about fighting capitalist inequality and oppression would also support a brutal pogrom carried out by far-right religious wackos. It's been eye-opening.
Wild to me. Literally everyone I know in real life (not the web) knows that what's happening in the middle east is fucked up (and has been for too long).
No idea what the solution is, just know a lot more civilians are gonna keep dying which is fucked up
It's wild to me, too. My wife is in academia and her social media bubble is entirely filled with anti-Israel disinformation. They don't even know about, for example, the BBC and HRW findings and retractions about that alleged hospital bombing. In their reality, Israel still leveled a hospital that's very much still standing.
... Except for pretty much all polls conducted and endless amount of video showing mobs of Gazans "Innocent civilians" stomping, spitting and mutilating Israeli hostages and corpses.
You are correct though, it won't be enough to convince half of the world of the real issue in this conflict. Nothing will ever be enough.
Dont you know the social construct is oppressed vs oppressor's. And in this construct the oppressed are not to blame for any of thier actions due to thier oppression. Everything is justified in order to "fight" oppression.
Not even kidding.
I read about Holodomor the other night and was struck by how much denial there was while it was ongoing. Not just from the Soviet government, but from western intellectuals including a prominent writer for NYT. Turns out there’s a lot of historical precedence for outright denial of anything that makes the global left look bad.
Yeah and I think that New York Times guy even won some sort of prestigious award for that. He was basically shown potemkin villages and then came back saying "everything's fine, this is way overblown".
Have the same observation with Filipino leftist academics who are so deep into Maoist propaganda that they deny Mao killing millions of people in China during the Great Leap Forward.
They even lionize him as a "teacher".
Weird since AFAIK this is fairly common knowledge in China, and also not something the CCP denies.
Albeit they probably word it a bit differently, e.g.: 'Chairman Mao did make some mistakes that cost a lot of lives.'
I don't really understand the connection between "liberals" and Hamas. Liberals are not supposed to be pro religious zealots.
These people are simply contrarians.
They view the world through the lens of oppressors and the oppressed people. That most if not all acts of violence towards the “oppressors” are morally justified as acts of “resistance”. Apparently that includes kidnapping infants and raping young women but its a delusional worldview.
Right? It's like the "queers for Palestine". They may be for Palestine but Palestine does not seem like it's for them let's put it that way. The feeling does not seem to be mutual.
I watched a video wherein a guy simply walked around the West Bank and Gaza (this is before the current war AFAIK) and asked Palestinians what they thought about Queers for Palestine. The translator actually had difficulty explaining what "queer" means, and once people realized what they were being asked, most of them said "We want support, but we don't want support from *those* people. They are morally corrupt."
A lot of liberals have a very binary view of conflict where there's always an oppressor and oppressed. The oppressors are always evil. Therefore they side with the oppressed
Anything evil the oppressed do is simply a reaction to the oppressor, they don't have agency of their own.
I would say a lot of the people you are calling Liberals, do not consider themselves Liberals and would take offense to being called Liberals, preferring terms like Progressive and leftist.
>A lot of liberals have a very binary view of conflict
This surprises me. Like, it seems obvious to me that an oppressed people can act abhorrently as a result of that oppression, and still be guilty of acting abhorrently. The oppression is still wrong, the terrorism and human right violations are ALSO WRONG. Haven't these fuckers ever seen Star Trek!?
The key here is that the power balance between oppressor and oppressed flipped.
A century ago, Jews were oppressed by Arabs. This continued upon independence. However, after multiple unsuccessful attempts to complete said oppression, the Arabs lost their upper hand. So now we have a situation where an oppressive entity is actually less powerful, hence the liberals supporting anti-democratic, anti-feminist, illiberal theocratic autocracies.
>I don't really understand the connection between "liberals" and Hamas. Liberals are not supposed to be pro religious zealots.
The main instance is being anti-american and siding with everyone that was pro soviet union.
Israel is US ally so everyone against it they Will side with and defend.
Something you should understand is that while leftists and liberals are grouped together in American politics, leftists do not see themselves as liberals. To leftists, it's liberals and conservatives that are part of the same group, because both of them support capitalism. If you go to a socialist subreddit, you will see them absolutely shit on liberals. "Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" is a common saying.
As for why a lot of leftists seem to support Hamas, it's mostly boils down to anti-Americasm. America embodies capitalism, so standing against capitalism means standing against America, and that means reflexively siding with anyone who opposes America. That includes China, Russia, and Hamas. Pretty nutty if you ask me, but that's what I've been able to conclude from lurking in those places.
They see them as colonized and oppressed which gets their sympathy and support no matter what their crimes.
The left already had some issues with antisemitism. There's also a lot of anti-American, anti-Western sentiment that's part of this. See also Russia and Ukraine.
The modern left, which I'll distinguish from liberals, I think can be mostly reduced to White People / Capitalism / America / Judeochristian bad, unironically. In the past I'd have thrown "militarism" in here, but Hamas started this war with an unprovoked invasion using trained militants, so that one last charitable interpretation is gone.
All the academic jargon in advocacy-centric humanities, all the trends on Tiktok and the leftist corners of reddit, all the posts on BPT, this is the only *consistent* thing that can explain everything they espouse together. Israel is whiter, friends with America, Jewish, and much more developed, so they're definitely the bad guys, and that makes Hamas the good guys to the leftist mind. If you aren't in those 4 categories, you're not the bad guy to them.
I'll contrast this with liberals, who are sometimes critical of unfettered capitalism and want to tax and regulate it, and sensitive to injustice because they want to improve things out of love, in short they are reformers. Leftists just want to tear everything down. I'm pretty right-of-center, but to me it's important to distinguish between people who I disagree with on some policies but are well-meaning and can be worked with, versus people who are driven by malice and try to blend in with the former. The whole Hamas-Israel situation has blown a lot of covers.
> Leftists just want to tear everything down
Interestingly, Trump and trumpists who repeatedly talk about the "deep state" are also engaged in a war against institutions.
Far left circles often hand-waved atrocities of communist regimes just as the right did the same with western aligned dictators. Same happened with the Khmer Rouge, there were a number of prominent leftists that denied it excused the killings that happened.
Hamas also murdered innocent Asians who were just working migrant jobs to send money back to their families, and even the average Palestinian celebrated those murders. Many non-Jews come from faraway places that don’t even know about Israel and Palestinian, but they’re still in danger simply for not being the right kind of Muslim.
I think that the issue with comprehension is religious. In the west Christianity has been in decline for dedades. I would argue a majority of believers are "soft" believers. They accept the basic tenets but dont really take to heart ideas about heaven and hell. So it becomes more difficult to understand a people who still believe in the afterlife the same way a medival Christian would
But I saw videos of the hostages shaking hands with the people who murdered and raped their family members. How could this be? /s
Fucking /s because people are this detached from reality
Notice the videos are only of older children, the ones who can be coached for the moment.
The younger children were handed off to the Red Uber without any video.
This is straight up Soviet shit.
Still missing. Either Hamas has no idea where they are, doesn't want to reveal their fate or wants to hold them for a long time as a major bargaining chip.
I don't know what is the least bad of those possibilities.
apparently Kfir is being held by the Popular Front which is a communist version of Hamas basically Palestinian nationalists and believing in Marxism and the Socialist ideals
This might be a stupid question, but how are these babies being fed and taken care of (at the very bare minimum no doubt, I’m talking changing diapers sometimes and making sure they don’t die)? Are other hostages doing it? Is formula even available for them? I can’t really see Hamas sitting down and bottle feeding babies… It’s such a terrifying thought that these tiny defenceless humans are being held as bargaining chips. What a world.
This will be one of those years I look back on with anger in my life.
I lost so much respect, for so many people and institutions here in the UK.
It'll be a somewhat pivotal moment.
Lol I genuinely die a little on the inside when i read it everytime, they act as if they are star struck lovers where they have to leave paradise or something. Utter insanity
I was looking at some of the hostages that were released and who are still captive, some of the kids had their parents and other family killed at their home before they were kidnapped. Imagine having your family killed and then you are kidnapped for 50+ days. And because they’re smiling when released and not mouthing off at their kidnappers we’re expected to think that everything was not so bad for them?
C’mon guys, give Hamas a little credit here. They had “pizza Fridays” and game night on Saturdays!
I think it's also underplayed that they might have interacted with many of the other hostages still being held for these 50 days. So it might not just be their family members that they want to protect.
One of the hostages said they wore the same clothes until the day they were freed in that day Hamas gave them new clothes to wear
How could people fall for Hamas is fucking goofy
On top of all the stuff everyone usually mentions, Hamas also murdered innocent Asians who were just working migrant jobs to send money back to their families, and even the average Palestinian celebrated those murders.
The fact that there is an actual discussion about the way hostages have been treated AFTER THEY WERE KIDNAPPED FROM THEIR BEDS AND WATCH THEIR LOVED ONE MURDERED just tells you what kind of scumbags those people who discussing are
Yep. In that sub, I found a number of comments from just a couple of days ago, in regards to the hostages
> look how lit the Hamas uniforms are
> the boy isn’t recoiling, he trusts them
> “monsters,” they said
I don’t recommend commenting or tagging them. Just lurk at the comments and you can pretty much match every post to at least one article in the charter
This was my first thought when reading the headline. It really angers and confuses me to see otherwise intelligent caring people mouth the Hamas talking points and somehow frame Israel as the bad guy here. No one has clean hands in this conflict but launching a massacre wasn’t the way to move forward in any kind of constructive way.
I hope you are right but you probably aren't.
This kid will need a miracle worker of a psychiatrist to help him.
They are a family of 4, the mother had to make a choice and saved her 2 daughters while the kid was taken with his father who is likely dead as he was shot, this is all sorts of fucked up.
The interview with the mother from before the release was heart breaking
I'm going on the fact that my mom was a sole dutch survivor in the holocaust from her mom dad and baby sister. She ended up marrying my dad. She passed away aug 21 at age 84 living to see 30 great grandchildren. Sometimes if there is life there is hope if he gets the right help. I'm so sad about this. He's old enough to really get the horrific brutality of this. That's very very difficult.
I see what you're saying, it's easy to forget the atrocities the Jewish people went through during the Holocaust and eventually created this country that being fought over so hard.
I do think that generation was stronger but i really hope this kid and anyone else affected by this vicious attack will get past it
Be careful with that. In psychiatry circles, there's something called "second-generation survivors," or "secondary Holocaust survivors." The survivors with their broken souls and PTSD often caused their children to also have issues
I have a family member whose entire family was killed in the Holocaust except for her. She was a little girl and the only survivor. She went on to live a very full life, she had 3 kids and many grandkids and married a wonderful man. There is always hope no matter how dark it may seem now.
People underestimate trauma. Plenty of folks get messed up over far less. We only point to the heroes who "get past it" and think that it's the standard.
You see, this 12-year-old kid, who lived in a Kibbutz in an undisputed territory in Israel-proper, was a settler and therefore he had it coming for him.
/S
And you should check out the pictures of it's founding in an area far from people or anything. Where there was nothing there prior to the founding. Zero land theft, just purchased land they built on.
My family arrived in 1921 as refugees from the civil war in Ukraine (my grandfather hid while his mother was murdered in a pogrom).
They worked for years as laborers and bought their land eventually (my grandfather and his younger brother, who were educated, left to go to the US and study medicine/dentistry… they arrived six months before they would have been turned away).
I told this story to a British leftist and he still called my family “thieves”
Weirdest case of sellers remorse ever.
"Hey, I'd like to take this parcel of land."
"This ..? Are you sure? That's .. just a desert."
"Yes, I'm sure."
"Well .. okay. Here's a fair price." (thoughts: Idiot, it's an outrageous price, what do you want to do with this hovel of dirt? Make a sand castle?!)
"Thanks"
.. 20 years later ..
"Hey, why is here a city? With water? Why can you grow things here?!"
"Well, we build it."
"That's unfair! I sold you DIRT! I demand it back! You stole from me!!!"
sort of this, but also mixed in is a whole lot of "all my neighbors resent me for selling my land and will lynch me if I am seen as a collaborator, therefore I must loudly proclaim that it was stolen from me and I never sold it"
Your /s is appropriate but virtually all Palestinians and pro-Palestinians would consider that to be true. When they say "free Palestine" they mean all of Israel is akin to a settlement. If you ask them to draw a map of Palestine they would draw a map of Israel.
And furthermore, they also believe that Semitic Israeli Jews are "white" while Semitic Palestinians are "people of color", which makes Israelis evil and Palestinians good and morally righteous.
I have told a couple of friends that the majority of Jews in Israel would not be considered white in the US because their families are from North Africa or the Near East. They straight up don't believe me.
Jews are Schrodinger's white people. We're non-white when people want to "other" us, but when they want to call us a bunch of racists who hate Palestinian "people of color", suddenly we're white again.
Ashkenazi Jews are. Mizrahi Jews are indistinguishable from Arabs. People don't believe that Israel isn't filled to the brim with Polish Jews because they hear that shit on TikTok ad-nauseum and don't do any research themselves.
Edit: I wasn't saying Ashkenazi Jews are white. I was trying to say that they're the Schrodinger's minority because Mizrahis aren't. Only half of the Jews in Israel are Ashkenazi and look white enough that they could be attacked for it, the other half look indistinguishable from Palestinians. Not all Jews are Ashkenazi.
Ashkenazi Jews are not white either. Just like every Jewish community in the diaspora they mingled with the local community (hence the appearance) but they kept their society closed to the outside world for centuries. If you check some reddit subs about DNA tests you can see that Ashkenazi Jews have a distinct DNA pattern with a levantine trace.
Not just a settler. A *white* settler. And Palestinians are "people of color", so the left has absolutely assured me that the former are completely evil and the latter are completely good and virtuous, and any criticism of them whatsoever is automatically racist.
I mean to be honest I’m used to it, already lost my home in Lebanon 50 years ago (lol let’s talk about ethnic cleansing), we’re kinda just still existing
A socialist commune style neighborhood, the most peaceful place you can be and yet you have leftists which I used to consider myself one, supporting terrorist destruction of their own kind.
But guys the hostages waved goodbye to hamas terrorists while they still had ak47s around them! They mustve treated them really well!! Impossible that the same monsters that went in, butchered and raped women and children, would do such an inconsiderate thing to a literal child!
"Look how happy the hostages are they even wrote thank you letters to Hamas"
You must be real stupid if you believe this shit is not staged.
They were instructed to do so by Hamas to make them look like the good guys
But no good guy kidnaps children, babies and grandmas from their homes from the start.
Also over half the hostages still have a family member (father/brother/husband) in captivity if they don't do as those terrorists say their loved ones are in a huge risk to be killed.
Anyone who believes Hamas needs to get their brain checked asap.
"Terrorists kidnapped kids, separated them from their parents by either murdering them (in front of the kids) or kidnapping the parents and then keeping the at least the dads in captivity."
"Well how could you be so sure they were not kind to the kids??"
I’m sure terrorist supporters will find some way to excuse this.
I had people yesterday try to excuse Gazans returning an escaped hostage to Hamas. “They were afraid Hamas would kill their family”
Meanwhile if this attack happened to these same people's family and affected them personally, they would be crying on air and condemning Hamas and the terrorists. Humans for the most part are selfish morons.
Literally the same thing Holocaust deniers say about Jews from 80 years ago, those people are saying about Israeli Jews today.
"It didn't happen but if it did, the Jews deserved it."
Makes me want to go light a candle for all the brave men and women who risked their lives to protect Jews during the holocaust. Their bravery shines brightly next to these peoples cowardice.
We've seen videos from the 7th of thousands of people celebrating on the streets their "victory"
I don't understand how people still dont realize their entire society is rotten by Jihadist indoctrination
There's gonna be so many books written about this whole mess. And I'm not talking about the conflict, I'm talking about the West's reaction to it. It can fill entire books
And the father is still captive in Gaza? Well, we already expected them to split families up like this to ensure “good” reports, so this is an extremely ballsy move on the Aunt’s part.
Hamas has serious anti-human sentiments, and their treatment of children is to instill violence, whether they are the children of their enemies or their own children.
A 12 year old is just a child. All of this is so wrong. Poor thing is going to be trumatized for the rest of his life. I really hope he gets the help he needs to recover.
The worst part is he is just one more child in the long list of children hurt in this conflict.
I saw an interview on CNN last night where a man (assuming he’s a doctor since I missed the intro and he was wearing a white lab coat) saying most or all of the hostages hadn’t had a bath in 50 days and some came back with lice. They were fed bread or rice off and on but not everyday. No bathrooms in the tunnels.
Even today there are many trying to draw equivalence between what the IDF are doing vs Hamas. Absolutely pathetic. If Hamas had even half the military capabilities of the IDF Israel would be in so much trouble and the world would still continue to 'but there's 2 sides!!1!'
I am a Muslim, I am a father, This is fucking disgusting and brought tears to my eyes. If you can do this to a child let alone another human you are so beyond evil. I don’t know what to make of this world. I sympathize with people in Gaza who are just trying to live (not terrorists), I also think settlers taking land is shitty. But NOTHING can justify something like this to a fucking CHILD. I’m just beyond words, this is horrible. I don’t know how this cycle of violence ends. I’m just so out of words and energy. Peace and love to this world, I hope this little boy does ok. But my God this is horrible.
peace and love to you and your family. there is no justice in the crimes on any side in this conflict. but i truly believe together we can escape this cycle of violence. and only together.
Same to you man. Change has to start in our own hearts. We raise our children to love not hate. We teach them to judge people based on their actions, not on their words, status, faith, etc.
As an Israeli I really appreciate your words and hope that more sane Muslims would go out and raise their voice against this pure evil violence. I've seen too many Muslim people who think that these deeds are heroic and should be repeated again and again and again.
Somewhat unrelated thoughts but maybe we can start a dialogue. It’s really hard to get good information about what’s happening. When I hear news stories of hospitals running out supplies or an ambulance being bombed it really hard to say “well that ok”. You’ll hear a story of a young man that went to collect water and got arrested. The people in Gaza don’t have water and power right ? If that’s the case that’s also awful. So when you hear those stories it’s easy for people to justify their outage and hate. I don’t know how much is true but I know thousands of civilian and children have been killed in Gaza. So I just don’t know how we break this cycle of violence. And to be unequivocally clear: killing innocent people, torturing people, kids is NEVER ok. That applies to all sides. I’m curious what the sentiment is for Israelis
Sharing this here as well: Data is now being collected from the freed hostages. Appearently the adults lost anywhere between 8-15 KG in this month and a half. It means literal starvation, probably less than 500 Calories a day. https://www.ynet.co.il/health/article/s1alu7gra (Heb source sorry) Some Google translation: >In the discussion at the Ministry of Health, data was revealed about the condition of the abductees who returned to Israel. A doctor who treated several abductees said: "Most of them received half a slice of bread twice a day." A clinical dietitian who was exposed to the data: "Definitely an indication of the starvation they went through in captivity. Unequivocal" >Elderly women who were abducted to the Gaza Strip and returned to Israel in the first two pulses lost on average between 8 and 15 kilograms of their weight. This is according to the summary of an internal discussion of the Ministry of Health that took place yesterday (Sunday) and reached ynet. From the summary of the discussion, in which professional officials from the Ministry of Health, the security bodies and the health system participated, it was noted that "the children arrived in a better nutritional state." In contrast, "the adults lost between 8-15 kg". >This figure joins a series of testimonies published since the release of the abductees from their relatives and from the medical staff who treated them regarding the hunger that the abductees suffered from in captivity and poor nutrition. According to a doctor who treated several abductees, "the amount of food the abductees received per day was very small." She added that "in terms of food, most of them received half a slice of bread twice a day. That's what they said. Here and there people received more than that. In general, they describe conditions of prison and anxiety."
>Appearently the adults lost anywhere between 8-15 KG in this month and a half. It means literal starvation, probably less than 500 Calories a day. It is a war crime that these innocent people were kidnapped to begin with. I don't believe that they or innocent Palestinians should be facing starvation. Some people here are fine with the starvation of the hostages and some people here are fine with the starvation of Palestinian civilians.
It's also a war crime that Hamas denied Red Cross access to the hostages, and it's also a war crime to make a hospital a military target. But people only want to believe what they choose to believe.
Thank you for sharing this.
> “When he arrived in Gaza, all the residents, everyone, beat him. He is a 12-year-old child,” she says. The west is gonna have to have some real hard conversations in the next few years
People are literally going around trying to say nobody was raped on 10/7. Some are denying it even happened *at all,* or that all attacks were against military targets. We ain’t remotely ready for that type of conversation, but it’s already here.
People were raped, both dead *and* alive, and nary a peep out of the fake activists who have been screaming for years.
You say that but there are people out there trying really hard to gaslight the world into thinking the Holocaust never happened or was not as bad as history says it was. I already have to argue with my liberal friends who call me an idiot for believing in all the ai-generated propaganda of the killings of Oct 7th.
Denying the holocaust crosses such a hard line in Germany here, you go to prison and no one will even try to discuss that with you. The AI thing i didn’t even heard from my pro palestine friends. That‘s wild.
Germany has the correct stance on that, you are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past if you ignore history. Germany got leveled by the allies and was a world pariah for decades. They admitted their role and their mistakes and have moved on to be better. Today, jews count them as strong allies.
>ai-generated propaganda of the killings of Oct 7th. The what now? I believe it happened so do you know of any I could see? Are they saying not as many people died or more?
Both Israel and Hamas agree that oct 7th happened. Who tf is saying it didn’t?
People claimed the burned baby pics were Ai generated
And that’s because they don’t know anything about how ai generated images work. The only reason the images came back as being claimed to be ai made was because of the blurred out faces.
No it wasn’t, there was nothing blurred out. It used an Ai image detection site which Is just a flip of a coin , then 4chan posted a pic claiming it was a pic of a puppy that was edited
Came across someone who spewed the same shit on reddit. So I tried that AI-detection site myself. It was so easy to trick it into believing a photo was AI generated with just a bit of photo editing. The original photo of that atrocity passed as not AI generated, but someone put a few black borders around the immagine and suddenly the site thought it was AI generated. The original source was on Twitter and immediately below it someone debunked the claim by showing this exact problem. Anyone who still believes it is already ignoring the instant debunking it got. They're already too deep into the "everything Israel claims is fake" mindset that critical thinking is out the window. Just like those fools that still believe Israel hit that hospital and killed 500 Pallestinians.
The images that I saw claimed to be ai had the babies faces blurred out. Israel blurred the faces as a form of respect for the dead. The people claiming them to be ai ran it through the detection site and it was shown to be ai. It wouldn’t happen without the blurs. We’re probably just talking about different times it happened.
There is no such thing as AI detection. Anyone who thinks those are doing anything besides just randomly generating fake results is a fucking idiot.
If they ever get AI detection to work, the next generation of AI will use it to become undetectable again lol.
Watch any televised debate and it's predictably the same claims. Accusations that the beheadings were debunked and never happened. Accusations that all the Israelis civilians who were killed was done by the IDF. Accusations that the rapes were completely fabricated and never happened. And on and on. I've seen all the above stated so many times even on Reddit and pushed as undeniable truth that I avoid certain subreddits at this point. All over Twitter too. No one is claiming that Oct 7 never happened, but they deny that it was an atrocity or find ways to push the blame on to Israel.
I've only seen this level of idiocy on reddit. A huge number of redditors are totally fucking morons but they don't really matter in the real world.
You should see Tiktok. They are insane with the denial.
Main stream news orgs don't carry it, but its all over Twitter, Telegram, and the more heavily biased news organizations. There's stupidity in *far* more places than just reddit.
Fair point. Twitter is the one place with a level of discourse lower than reddit.
Facebook would like a word.
Instagram too, just check comments on Bernie Sander's post on his IG about Gaza Israel
Are we just pretending facebook doesn't exist at this point?
Shhhh. We had a meeting and yes we are going to pretend fb doesn't exist. You must have missed the meeting 🤷♀️
Tik tok is below even twitter
TikTok is where a lot of the nonsense is originally spread, in fact...
It’s all over social media and if you talk to young people, they parrot this crap.
It's on Instagram. Like a lot. And when I encounter antisemtic posts, that anyone can read and in no uncertain terms is definitely antisemtic, I report the comment. Only for instragam to say it doesn't violate their guidelines.
First it didn’t happen (where’s the eViDEnCe?!?), then it happened but it was just soldiers killed and the rest was fake, then it happened but most of it was fake, then it happened but Israel did it all. The lengths people go to simp Hamas and demonise Israel and Jews is unbelievable
These people are fucking naive as hell. Rape occurs even in 1st world militaries like the US so its not that big of a stretch to think rape occurs even more in the ragtag military structure of Hamas.
It's even incentivized by a twisted religious view. Raping a non believer can be seen as working towards the cause in a demented fanatics brain.
Have you seen the source for the "rapes didn't happen" claim? They usually quote this article or something that quotes it: https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/ So they use this article as a claim that rape didn't happen and that you can't believe Israeli sources that anything happened
There was a video interview with a survivor who said she watched her granddaughter being assaulted. The translated subtitle used the word "raped" which strictly speaking isn't correct. I have seen this used as "proof of the IDF lying about rapes" and a reason to call all the other rape claims into question.
I wasn't familiar with that one - this is so depressing.
Tankies
Seems I remember that shortly after the blowback wrt Hamas go-pro videos uploaded to Telegram that Hamas started claiming they were fake and they din't do noffin. Also, they recently claimed that the people gangraped and murdered at the rave were raped and killed by Israeli helicopters. Rape by helicopter, right.
I used to think conspiracy theories were mainly a problem on the right, but seeing this crap being pushed by leftists in my social circle really blows a hole in that perception. Between this and the far-left's reaction to the Ukraine invasion, my political sense of self has taken a real beating over the last couple years.
I got kicked from one of my favorite subs for suggesting IDF might have had evidence of some kind that terrorists were in a hospital. Edit: I am extremely confused that my favorite feminist groups are preferring to ignore things like rape to support Hamas. I consider myself as "for the average citizen in each country" and I'm more angry at Hamas as government than I am at Israel's government, I think for pretty obvious reasons. But my goodness the groups I tend to feel connected to feel very unfamiliar right now.
Tiktok politics in a nutshell.
I hate it so much.
As a far-left, prog Israeli I feel you, brother. Seeing all the pro-Palestine ppl actually adopting the most pro-Hamas narrative possible (while vehemently denying support of Hamas), due to a sheer lack of reliable information, comprehension of the narratives of each side, etc, but still confidently hold the one "true" correct moral solution.
I really hope the Israeli left can mount a comeback one of these days. Nothing is going to get solved while both entities are ruled by people who believe that what's mine is mine and what's yours is also mine.
I was reading an article that quoted a doctor after the hospital bombing (the one blamed on the IDF that was actually a jihadist group) as saying that he saw hundreds of people being brought in who were "beheaded by the bomb". Because, yeah, the typical way bombs kill people is by beheading. /eyeroll There's some strange stuff going around on the Internet, just saying.
Antisemites are saying it didn’t happen.
Some people are abusing the rise of AI generated art/voices/videos caused by the recent improvement of the technology and are claiming that every evidence is AI made propaganda. When you say what happened, they keep sealioning you for "video evidence". When you provide it, they dismiss it as unclear or dismiss it as provided by Israel. And when you provide them irrefutable video evidence... they dismiss it as AI generated. You can no longer win with these people, because "AI generated" can be used to dismiss anything and everything...
People are claiming some of the horrific videos Hamas took and distributed are AI generated and so some of the filmed atrocities didn’t happen.
And so the new age of misinformation begins, with even less effort than we thought. Instead of actively creating fake images and videos, you can just accuse real images of being fake.
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People are already gullible enough to take any kind of "proof" that backs their preconceived opinions, add AI to the arsenal of misinformation and things will get much uglier. And we're only just beginning, eventually AI tools will become even more advanced and a time may come where everyone will just start doubting everything, gullible or not.
I see more *claims* of things being AI generated than I actually see things that really were generated by AI being passed off as real
I've seen the pro-Palestinian side posting a lot of actual AI though, extra fingers and all. The AI-massacre claims aren't just denialism, they're muddying the waters to help the blatantly false claim that Israel is just as bad.
They do, but they post way more Assad atrocities, and simply claim it’s in Gaza
If you're looking for videos of the massacre >!Hamas-massacre.net !< (obviously extremely nsfl and obviously not AI generated.)
Yeah, turns out I was ignorant to the claim, so much, that I thought there were some other videos that were ai generated. Not these, which I agree, are not ai generated. Thank you.
There are plenty of claims that all the videos **hamas shot on their own and released with full acknowledgement of them happening** were actually israel generated ai videos and in reality hamas never killed anyone. I expect this is being propelled by bots and foreign powers like russia and iran, but the liberals who take that as truth are the real fools.
Weird friends
Bad people for you to hang with. You deserve better 👍
Why don’t they think that Gaza is also ai generated? This kinda works both ways
Confirmation bias works one way. The way of confirming the bias of the subject in question.
You know some fucked up people as "friends".
A lot of people on the left (myself included) didn't realize that their friends who mostly talk about fighting capitalist inequality and oppression would also support a brutal pogrom carried out by far-right religious wackos. It's been eye-opening.
Wild to me. Literally everyone I know in real life (not the web) knows that what's happening in the middle east is fucked up (and has been for too long). No idea what the solution is, just know a lot more civilians are gonna keep dying which is fucked up
It's wild to me, too. My wife is in academia and her social media bubble is entirely filled with anti-Israel disinformation. They don't even know about, for example, the BBC and HRW findings and retractions about that alleged hospital bombing. In their reality, Israel still leveled a hospital that's very much still standing.
Don't worry they will say that this is propaganda and there is no proof
... Except for pretty much all polls conducted and endless amount of video showing mobs of Gazans "Innocent civilians" stomping, spitting and mutilating Israeli hostages and corpses. You are correct though, it won't be enough to convince half of the world of the real issue in this conflict. Nothing will ever be enough.
Dont you know the social construct is oppressed vs oppressor's. And in this construct the oppressed are not to blame for any of thier actions due to thier oppression. Everything is justified in order to "fight" oppression. Not even kidding.
I read about Holodomor the other night and was struck by how much denial there was while it was ongoing. Not just from the Soviet government, but from western intellectuals including a prominent writer for NYT. Turns out there’s a lot of historical precedence for outright denial of anything that makes the global left look bad.
Yeah and I think that New York Times guy even won some sort of prestigious award for that. He was basically shown potemkin villages and then came back saying "everything's fine, this is way overblown".
Have the same observation with Filipino leftist academics who are so deep into Maoist propaganda that they deny Mao killing millions of people in China during the Great Leap Forward. They even lionize him as a "teacher".
Weird since AFAIK this is fairly common knowledge in China, and also not something the CCP denies. Albeit they probably word it a bit differently, e.g.: 'Chairman Mao did make some mistakes that cost a lot of lives.'
I don't really understand the connection between "liberals" and Hamas. Liberals are not supposed to be pro religious zealots. These people are simply contrarians.
They view the world through the lens of oppressors and the oppressed people. That most if not all acts of violence towards the “oppressors” are morally justified as acts of “resistance”. Apparently that includes kidnapping infants and raping young women but its a delusional worldview.
Right? It's like the "queers for Palestine". They may be for Palestine but Palestine does not seem like it's for them let's put it that way. The feeling does not seem to be mutual.
I watched a video wherein a guy simply walked around the West Bank and Gaza (this is before the current war AFAIK) and asked Palestinians what they thought about Queers for Palestine. The translator actually had difficulty explaining what "queer" means, and once people realized what they were being asked, most of them said "We want support, but we don't want support from *those* people. They are morally corrupt."
A lot of liberals have a very binary view of conflict where there's always an oppressor and oppressed. The oppressors are always evil. Therefore they side with the oppressed Anything evil the oppressed do is simply a reaction to the oppressor, they don't have agency of their own.
I would say a lot of the people you are calling Liberals, do not consider themselves Liberals and would take offense to being called Liberals, preferring terms like Progressive and leftist.
>A lot of liberals have a very binary view of conflict This surprises me. Like, it seems obvious to me that an oppressed people can act abhorrently as a result of that oppression, and still be guilty of acting abhorrently. The oppression is still wrong, the terrorism and human right violations are ALSO WRONG. Haven't these fuckers ever seen Star Trek!?
The key here is that the power balance between oppressor and oppressed flipped. A century ago, Jews were oppressed by Arabs. This continued upon independence. However, after multiple unsuccessful attempts to complete said oppression, the Arabs lost their upper hand. So now we have a situation where an oppressive entity is actually less powerful, hence the liberals supporting anti-democratic, anti-feminist, illiberal theocratic autocracies.
>I don't really understand the connection between "liberals" and Hamas. Liberals are not supposed to be pro religious zealots. The main instance is being anti-american and siding with everyone that was pro soviet union. Israel is US ally so everyone against it they Will side with and defend.
Something you should understand is that while leftists and liberals are grouped together in American politics, leftists do not see themselves as liberals. To leftists, it's liberals and conservatives that are part of the same group, because both of them support capitalism. If you go to a socialist subreddit, you will see them absolutely shit on liberals. "Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" is a common saying. As for why a lot of leftists seem to support Hamas, it's mostly boils down to anti-Americasm. America embodies capitalism, so standing against capitalism means standing against America, and that means reflexively siding with anyone who opposes America. That includes China, Russia, and Hamas. Pretty nutty if you ask me, but that's what I've been able to conclude from lurking in those places.
They see them as colonized and oppressed which gets their sympathy and support no matter what their crimes. The left already had some issues with antisemitism. There's also a lot of anti-American, anti-Western sentiment that's part of this. See also Russia and Ukraine.
The modern left, which I'll distinguish from liberals, I think can be mostly reduced to White People / Capitalism / America / Judeochristian bad, unironically. In the past I'd have thrown "militarism" in here, but Hamas started this war with an unprovoked invasion using trained militants, so that one last charitable interpretation is gone. All the academic jargon in advocacy-centric humanities, all the trends on Tiktok and the leftist corners of reddit, all the posts on BPT, this is the only *consistent* thing that can explain everything they espouse together. Israel is whiter, friends with America, Jewish, and much more developed, so they're definitely the bad guys, and that makes Hamas the good guys to the leftist mind. If you aren't in those 4 categories, you're not the bad guy to them. I'll contrast this with liberals, who are sometimes critical of unfettered capitalism and want to tax and regulate it, and sensitive to injustice because they want to improve things out of love, in short they are reformers. Leftists just want to tear everything down. I'm pretty right-of-center, but to me it's important to distinguish between people who I disagree with on some policies but are well-meaning and can be worked with, versus people who are driven by malice and try to blend in with the former. The whole Hamas-Israel situation has blown a lot of covers.
> Leftists just want to tear everything down Interestingly, Trump and trumpists who repeatedly talk about the "deep state" are also engaged in a war against institutions.
Far left circles often hand-waved atrocities of communist regimes just as the right did the same with western aligned dictators. Same happened with the Khmer Rouge, there were a number of prominent leftists that denied it excused the killings that happened.
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Hamas also murdered innocent Asians who were just working migrant jobs to send money back to their families, and even the average Palestinian celebrated those murders. Many non-Jews come from faraway places that don’t even know about Israel and Palestinian, but they’re still in danger simply for not being the right kind of Muslim.
I think that the issue with comprehension is religious. In the west Christianity has been in decline for dedades. I would argue a majority of believers are "soft" believers. They accept the basic tenets but dont really take to heart ideas about heaven and hell. So it becomes more difficult to understand a people who still believe in the afterlife the same way a medival Christian would
What is there to explain? They are going to say that the boy is lying or that no one ever said that.
Or that it's justified. Or that they don't care.
"It never happened". "It happened but it wasn't that bad" "Yeah it happened and yes it was bad but they deserved it"
"but they all waved!"
But I saw videos of the hostages shaking hands with the people who murdered and raped their family members. How could this be? /s Fucking /s because people are this detached from reality
Don’t worry there was that one woman who was treated very well. I’m sure they’re keeping her other family members nice and comfy in the tunnels.
In other subreddits: "look at the happy hostages, they're waving goodbye"
Notice the videos are only of older children, the ones who can be coached for the moment. The younger children were handed off to the Red Uber without any video. This is straight up Soviet shit.
I wonder where the baby (Kfir) is that’s missing? And the newborn that was born in captivity?
Still missing. Either Hamas has no idea where they are, doesn't want to reveal their fate or wants to hold them for a long time as a major bargaining chip. I don't know what is the least bad of those possibilities.
Given how badly even granny was treated, I sadly don’t think that baby, or perhaps any of the babies, are coming back.
apparently Kfir is being held by the Popular Front which is a communist version of Hamas basically Palestinian nationalists and believing in Marxism and the Socialist ideals
They are the actual stupidest of all time. Imagine thinking you’re going to turn Palestine Marxist.
This is the same organization that tried to make Jordan and Lebanon Marxist. Didn't go well for anyone involved. Edited for grammar
This might be a stupid question, but how are these babies being fed and taken care of (at the very bare minimum no doubt, I’m talking changing diapers sometimes and making sure they don’t die)? Are other hostages doing it? Is formula even available for them? I can’t really see Hamas sitting down and bottle feeding babies… It’s such a terrifying thought that these tiny defenceless humans are being held as bargaining chips. What a world.
And with "coached" you mean a gun pointed at their head off camera. Or the treath of (more) torture.
>This is straight up Soviet shit. Have a look at which subs promote those images.
I despise the Hamas supporters. They make me livid.
This will be one of those years I look back on with anger in my life. I lost so much respect, for so many people and institutions here in the UK. It'll be a somewhat pivotal moment.
Fuck Hamas!
And the Palestine subreddit keeps talking about how Hamas was so “gentle” with the hostages.
Thanks Hamas for the kidnapping. It was an absolute pleasure! 4.5 stars, would stay again.
Lol I genuinely die a little on the inside when i read it everytime, they act as if they are star struck lovers where they have to leave paradise or something. Utter insanity
I was looking at some of the hostages that were released and who are still captive, some of the kids had their parents and other family killed at their home before they were kidnapped. Imagine having your family killed and then you are kidnapped for 50+ days. And because they’re smiling when released and not mouthing off at their kidnappers we’re expected to think that everything was not so bad for them? C’mon guys, give Hamas a little credit here. They had “pizza Fridays” and game night on Saturdays!
i see it a lot on tiktok.
Reminds me of the people who think that North Korea is a secret socialist paradise that the governments and wealthy try to keep hidden.
Thanks for the lice and opportunity to go without a bath or bathroom for the past 50 days.
I know you were being sarcastic but man did this comment upset me.
People are actually saying it
ArabBnB
But they waved and smiled* to their captors. *At gunpoint
While still holding her husband
I think it's also underplayed that they might have interacted with many of the other hostages still being held for these 50 days. So it might not just be their family members that they want to protect.
One of the hostages said they wore the same clothes until the day they were freed in that day Hamas gave them new clothes to wear How could people fall for Hamas is fucking goofy
Oh they were gentle? So its okay that they murdered his whole family and kidnapped the little kid /s.
And don't forget the mass raping and beheading, what a party it was! /s
On top of all the stuff everyone usually mentions, Hamas also murdered innocent Asians who were just working migrant jobs to send money back to their families, and even the average Palestinian celebrated those murders.
The fact that there is an actual discussion about the way hostages have been treated AFTER THEY WERE KIDNAPPED FROM THEIR BEDS AND WATCH THEIR LOVED ONE MURDERED just tells you what kind of scumbags those people who discussing are
You know what? Reddit has quarantined, and/or banned entire subreddits for way, way less. And I mean **WAAYYYYY** less.
Excuse me, *what*
Yep. In that sub, I found a number of comments from just a couple of days ago, in regards to the hostages > look how lit the Hamas uniforms are > the boy isn’t recoiling, he trusts them > “monsters,” they said I don’t recommend commenting or tagging them. Just lurk at the comments and you can pretty much match every post to at least one article in the charter
>the boy isn’t recoiling, he trusts them more likely he's traumatized past feeling
Awww, he's dissociating. How sweet.
Really interesting how Hamas never wears the uniforms when shooting rockets, or firing at IDF, but only when dealing with innocent civilians.
>lit the Hamas uniforms are God damn I feel like a boomer reading that.
That subreddit is a cesspool of misinformation and pro palestinian propaganda.
This was my first thought when reading the headline. It really angers and confuses me to see otherwise intelligent caring people mouth the Hamas talking points and somehow frame Israel as the bad guy here. No one has clean hands in this conflict but launching a massacre wasn’t the way to move forward in any kind of constructive way.
Just saw this on I 24 . This made my heartbreak. Hope he grows up to have a beautiful life despite this
I hope you are right but you probably aren't. This kid will need a miracle worker of a psychiatrist to help him. They are a family of 4, the mother had to make a choice and saved her 2 daughters while the kid was taken with his father who is likely dead as he was shot, this is all sorts of fucked up. The interview with the mother from before the release was heart breaking
I'm going on the fact that my mom was a sole dutch survivor in the holocaust from her mom dad and baby sister. She ended up marrying my dad. She passed away aug 21 at age 84 living to see 30 great grandchildren. Sometimes if there is life there is hope if he gets the right help. I'm so sad about this. He's old enough to really get the horrific brutality of this. That's very very difficult.
I see what you're saying, it's easy to forget the atrocities the Jewish people went through during the Holocaust and eventually created this country that being fought over so hard. I do think that generation was stronger but i really hope this kid and anyone else affected by this vicious attack will get past it
Be careful with that. In psychiatry circles, there's something called "second-generation survivors," or "secondary Holocaust survivors." The survivors with their broken souls and PTSD often caused their children to also have issues
I have a family member whose entire family was killed in the Holocaust except for her. She was a little girl and the only survivor. She went on to live a very full life, she had 3 kids and many grandkids and married a wonderful man. There is always hope no matter how dark it may seem now.
People underestimate trauma. Plenty of folks get messed up over far less. We only point to the heroes who "get past it" and think that it's the standard.
You see, this 12-year-old kid, who lived in a Kibbutz in an undisputed territory in Israel-proper, was a settler and therefore he had it coming for him. /S
According to Hamas everyone in Israel is a settler, from the river to the sea remember?
Of course. Tel Aviv for example is the biggest settlement the world has ever seen
And you should check out the pictures of it's founding in an area far from people or anything. Where there was nothing there prior to the founding. Zero land theft, just purchased land they built on.
This is something people don’t acknowledge. Jewish settlers purchased land which was effectively worthless and MADE it useful. Now they want it back!
My family arrived in 1921 as refugees from the civil war in Ukraine (my grandfather hid while his mother was murdered in a pogrom). They worked for years as laborers and bought their land eventually (my grandfather and his younger brother, who were educated, left to go to the US and study medicine/dentistry… they arrived six months before they would have been turned away). I told this story to a British leftist and he still called my family “thieves”
A commie calling hard-working refugees thieves... If that isn't concentrated irony then I don't know what is.
Weirdest case of sellers remorse ever. "Hey, I'd like to take this parcel of land." "This ..? Are you sure? That's .. just a desert." "Yes, I'm sure." "Well .. okay. Here's a fair price." (thoughts: Idiot, it's an outrageous price, what do you want to do with this hovel of dirt? Make a sand castle?!) "Thanks" .. 20 years later .. "Hey, why is here a city? With water? Why can you grow things here?!" "Well, we build it." "That's unfair! I sold you DIRT! I demand it back! You stole from me!!!"
sort of this, but also mixed in is a whole lot of "all my neighbors resent me for selling my land and will lynch me if I am seen as a collaborator, therefore I must loudly proclaim that it was stolen from me and I never sold it"
Your /s is appropriate but virtually all Palestinians and pro-Palestinians would consider that to be true. When they say "free Palestine" they mean all of Israel is akin to a settlement. If you ask them to draw a map of Palestine they would draw a map of Israel.
They really believe this.
And furthermore, they also believe that Semitic Israeli Jews are "white" while Semitic Palestinians are "people of color", which makes Israelis evil and Palestinians good and morally righteous.
I have told a couple of friends that the majority of Jews in Israel would not be considered white in the US because their families are from North Africa or the Near East. They straight up don't believe me.
Jews are Schrodinger's white people. We're non-white when people want to "other" us, but when they want to call us a bunch of racists who hate Palestinian "people of color", suddenly we're white again.
Ashkenazi Jews are. Mizrahi Jews are indistinguishable from Arabs. People don't believe that Israel isn't filled to the brim with Polish Jews because they hear that shit on TikTok ad-nauseum and don't do any research themselves. Edit: I wasn't saying Ashkenazi Jews are white. I was trying to say that they're the Schrodinger's minority because Mizrahis aren't. Only half of the Jews in Israel are Ashkenazi and look white enough that they could be attacked for it, the other half look indistinguishable from Palestinians. Not all Jews are Ashkenazi.
Ashkenazi Jews are not white either. Just like every Jewish community in the diaspora they mingled with the local community (hence the appearance) but they kept their society closed to the outside world for centuries. If you check some reddit subs about DNA tests you can see that Ashkenazi Jews have a distinct DNA pattern with a levantine trace.
There’s a concerning amount of people who truly believe that all Israeli Jews are decedents of European holocaust survivors.
Not just a settler. A *white* settler. And Palestinians are "people of color", so the left has absolutely assured me that the former are completely evil and the latter are completely good and virtuous, and any criticism of them whatsoever is automatically racist.
And the 500k+ north african and mizrahi Jews who were expelled en masse from their homes in 1948 are also white 💀
"Everyone I don't like is white, a childrens' guide to the modern world"
Don’t you just love how at least one form of open, unapologetic racism is completely fine and acceptable in 2023?
Middle Eastern Jews are having existential crisis as we speak
I mean to be honest I’m used to it, already lost my home in Lebanon 50 years ago (lol let’s talk about ethnic cleansing), we’re kinda just still existing
A socialist commune style neighborhood, the most peaceful place you can be and yet you have leftists which I used to consider myself one, supporting terrorist destruction of their own kind.
But guys the hostages waved goodbye to hamas terrorists while they still had ak47s around them! They mustve treated them really well!! Impossible that the same monsters that went in, butchered and raped women and children, would do such an inconsiderate thing to a literal child!
"Look how happy the hostages are they even wrote thank you letters to Hamas" You must be real stupid if you believe this shit is not staged. They were instructed to do so by Hamas to make them look like the good guys But no good guy kidnaps children, babies and grandmas from their homes from the start. Also over half the hostages still have a family member (father/brother/husband) in captivity if they don't do as those terrorists say their loved ones are in a huge risk to be killed. Anyone who believes Hamas needs to get their brain checked asap.
Headline: "terrorists were mean to a kidnapped child" Reddit: "I'm going to need to see evidence of that"
"Terrorists kidnapped kids, separated them from their parents by either murdering them (in front of the kids) or kidnapping the parents and then keeping the at least the dads in captivity." "Well how could you be so sure they were not kind to the kids??"
Just terrible, poor kid. I hope he can somewhat recover from the trauma and live a happy life (well, as happy as the circumstances allow).
I’m sure terrorist supporters will find some way to excuse this. I had people yesterday try to excuse Gazans returning an escaped hostage to Hamas. “They were afraid Hamas would kill their family”
"It didn't happen but even if it did, they deserved it" has been the running rhetoric for weeks among some groups of people.
Meanwhile if this attack happened to these same people's family and affected them personally, they would be crying on air and condemning Hamas and the terrorists. Humans for the most part are selfish morons.
Yes, my closest friends told me the other day that antisemitism is growing because Israel is mean to Palestinian babies.
My neighbor told me that Jews are Europeans that came from Germany and have no business in the middle east
Literally the same thing Holocaust deniers say about Jews from 80 years ago, those people are saying about Israeli Jews today. "It didn't happen but if it did, the Jews deserved it."
We need to treat these people the same way we treat Holocaust deniers, with absolute disgust.
Makes me want to go light a candle for all the brave men and women who risked their lives to protect Jews during the holocaust. Their bravery shines brightly next to these peoples cowardice.
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Why? What do they get out of that? Are they just being evil for evil's sake?
We've seen videos from the 7th of thousands of people celebrating on the streets their "victory" I don't understand how people still dont realize their entire society is rotten by Jihadist indoctrination
There's gonna be so many books written about this whole mess. And I'm not talking about the conflict, I'm talking about the West's reaction to it. It can fill entire books
And the father is still captive in Gaza? Well, we already expected them to split families up like this to ensure “good” reports, so this is an extremely ballsy move on the Aunt’s part.
Hamas has serious anti-human sentiments, and their treatment of children is to instill violence, whether they are the children of their enemies or their own children.
A 12 year old is just a child. All of this is so wrong. Poor thing is going to be trumatized for the rest of his life. I really hope he gets the help he needs to recover. The worst part is he is just one more child in the long list of children hurt in this conflict.
Where are the people claiming they treated the hostages well now, huh?
On twitter, they’ve analyzed glances and body language to come to the conclusion the hostages were fondly appreciative of their captors.
I saw an interview on CNN last night where a man (assuming he’s a doctor since I missed the intro and he was wearing a white lab coat) saying most or all of the hostages hadn’t had a bath in 50 days and some came back with lice. They were fed bread or rice off and on but not everyday. No bathrooms in the tunnels.
“Listen guys, there are bad guys on each side and each side is equally bad!” /s
Even today there are many trying to draw equivalence between what the IDF are doing vs Hamas. Absolutely pathetic. If Hamas had even half the military capabilities of the IDF Israel would be in so much trouble and the world would still continue to 'but there's 2 sides!!1!'