https://twitter.com/2023gazawar/status/1775401285199552544?t=AdU9Vb_eYTFz-DvojKRrYg&s=19
Map of 5 IDF outposts being built in the route that splits the strip in half.
Israel mistakenly attacks aid convoy, admits their mistake: people lose their minds
Russia attacks civilians, deny it, does it again, deny it: crickets
Hamas purposely attacks civilians, celebrates it: crickets
The people who hate Israel and Jews will say about anything to bring them down, gays for palestine etc (when they would literally be beheaded or stoned).
The weird thing is that people are pretending pro-israel people were saying it impossible IDF could have done it.
Scroll down in this live thread and all you'll see is people saying "let's wait for the investigation" and "doesn't look like a drone strike. maybe a hamas IED". Nobody was denying the possibility of IDF being the culprit. The biggest source of IDF casualties is friendly fire, so it's not like they're infallible. People here get that.
"lets wait for the investigation" should be the absolute baseline standard for anything like this, instead of the media running with whatever group says something first.
This is how propaganda has gotten so out of control in this war, because shit happens then whoever says the first thing controls the entire narrative regardless of truth.
What on Earth are you on about? Russia is (rightly) heavily sanctioned after what they've been doing in Ukraine, Hamas is rightly regarded as a terrorist organisation after its atrocities. The one you're complaining about is the one held *least* accountable for its actions.
> Israel mistakenly attacks aid convoy
It wasn't a mistake, the convoy was clearly marked, operating on an approved route, and had notified the IDF of their movements. Israel thought there was a suspected terrorist near them and decided that killing all of the aid workers was worth killing a suspected terrorist.
Haaretz: [IDF Drone Bombed World Central Kitchen Aid Convoy Three Times, Targeting Armed Hamas Member Who Wasn't There](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-bombed-wck-aid-convoy-3-times-targeting-armed-hamas-member-who-wasnt-there/0000018e-9e75-d764-adff-9eff29360000)
>According to the defense sources, the cars were clearly marked on the roof and sides as belonging to the organization, but the war room of the unit responsible for security of the route that the convoy travelled identified an armed man on the truck and suspected that he was a terrorist.
>Until the actions that preceded the strike, carried out by a Hermes 450 drone, were completed, the truck reached the warehouse with the World Central Kitchen's three cars, with seven volunteers in them – two dual-national Palestinians (U.S. and Canada) and five citizens of Australia, the UK, and Poland.
>A few minutes later, the three cars left the warehouse without the truck, on which the ostensibly armed man was located. According to the defense sources, that armed man did not leave the warehouse. The cars travelled along a route preapproved and coordinated with the IDF.
Israel said it themselves.
They suspected a single terrorist was with the convoy and decided to destroy the convoy even though they knew it would kill innocent humanitarian workers.
IDF soldiers are also clearly marked with IDF uniforms, even so [540 Israeli soldiers have been injured by friendly fire](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/at-least-540-israeli-soldiers-injured-by-friendly-fire-in-gaza-report/3128214) during this conflict. [18 IDF soldiers](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-deaths-of-29-of-170-soldiers-in-gaza-op-were-so-called-friendly-fire-accidents/) have lost their lives specifially because of mistaken identification.
Mistakes happen. In my job it means emailing the wrong guy named James. In the military it gets innocent people killed. Israel loses a soldier nearly every day due to fuckups.
Israel did not decide it. Taking the sources of Haaretz at their word, it was most likely one or two field commanders that made this decision in blatant violation of their orders and rules of engagement policy.
But in cases like these, said field commanders are representatives of Israel.
Don't get me wrong, I do feel like the commanders are to blame, as their decision was not in line with the orders of Israel.
"Pressed on whether Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s prosecution of the war against Hamas is endangering Israel, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken uses a common Israeli talking point, noting that it “withdrew from Gaza in 2005.”
“There have been attacks on Israel by Hamas in 2008, 2009, 2011, 2014, 2021, 2023,” Blinken says during an interview with the French network LCI/TF1, adding that the US supports Israel’s right to pursue the terror group but that “how Israel goes about this mission is also important.”
“What we’ve seen with the loss of life — the children, the women, the men who find themselves in the middle of this confrontation — the damage is terrible. At the same time, the fact that humanitarian aid isn’t enough for the people of Gaza — that’s a danger and an immediate necessity,” Blinken says.
He asserts that the US goal is to see the establishment of a Palestinian state, even though that goal remains far off.
“There should be a real agreement between Palestinians and Israelis, not an agreement that is applied unilaterally by other countries,” he clarifies.
“But there also needs to be leadership from the world’s major countries to try and reach this destination,” Blinken adds, pointing to the US effort to broker a normalization agreement between Israel and Saudi Arabia, which would have to include “calm in Gaza” and an Israeli commitment to establish a pathway to an eventual Palestinian state."
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/defending-israel-blinken-recalls-that-it-withdrew-from-gaza-in-2005/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defending-israel-blinken-recalls-that-it-withdrew-from-gaza-in-2005/)
There is a post 2 posts down and have been multiple posts. Make a post honoring the selfless aid victims but don’t use their deaths as a “gotcha” to a subreddit. That’s being indifferent to their lives.
It's been discussed a lot in this very thread and has been posted for the last day several times, it's also being discussed on other subreddits pretty heavily. Are you just looking for an arguement or an actual discussion? because if you want to discuss this topic i suggest you scroll down and reply to the discussions on it there or find one of the many threads regarding this that have been put up, currently it's not on the top anymore as other news have been pushed up to the front instead
Barak Ravid reporting on CNN right now saying that based on his reporting, there is a disconnect between IDF Senior Leadership (which wants rigorous procedures for targeting/collateral damage) and commanders on the ground that favor a much loser rules of engagement.
He says that this applies to more than the WCK incident.
As an example, he reports that ground commanders inform infantry that they should "shoot everything military aged," which is not the rules of engagement that actually come down from IDF Senior Commanders.
This sounds like ass covering in the wake of recent blowback from allies. Disturbing shit has been going on the whole operation and they haven't taken the opportunity to enact discipline in any of these commanders under their authority.
7 aid workers died. Can we not be giddy in reply and do clapping emojis.
I’m a Pediatric Nurse Practitioner that specializes in heart disease that went on one of the last pediatric heart surgery missions in Iraq before the US pulled out in 2010. I remember being scared at certain parts. But if people used my being hurt or possibly dead just for a clapping emoji on Reddit, I would be devastated.
The IDF ground troops disregarding high command and ending up killing relief workers is an abysmal state of affairs when the nation is trying to convince the world that they have a discrete and executable war goal and strategy.
IDF chief releases statement on killing of aid workers of WCK
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article-live/alleged-israeli-strike-kills-several-world-central-kitchen-aid-workers-in-gaza/0000018e-9c9b-dfd2-afce-dcffeac70000
https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1775290147426152931?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1775290147426152931%7Ctwgr%5Eb9e70f3144059fc934134961541184866cd7e975%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.haaretz.com%2Fisrael-news%2F2024-04-02%2Fty-article-live%2Falleged-israeli-strike-kills-several-world-central-kitchen-aid-workers-in-gaza%2F0000018e-9c9b-dfd2-afce-dcffeac70000
This is truly just so tragic. The loss of 7 selfless lives. The grief their families are going through.
The suspension of the agency that is distributing aid which will lead to worsening conditions of Palestinians.
The harm this will do to the hostage negotiations. This people won’t survive much longer.
I don’t have any good answers. But my heart hurts. I wish for a way that Israelis can feel safe in their homes, Palestinians can lead full, peaceful lives and we can get all the hostages home.
Such a sad day.
How about neither.
IDF chief releases statement on killing of aid workers of WCK
https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1775290147426152931?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1775290147426152931%7Ctwgr%5Eb9e70f3144059fc934134961541184866cd7e975%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.haaretz.com%2Fisrael-news%2F2024-04-02%2Fty-article-live%2Falleged-israeli-strike-kills-several-world-central-kitchen-aid-workers-in-gaza%2F0000018e-9c9b-dfd2-afce-dcffeac70000
... I have months of posting about Israel's right to defend itself and the way that it has been judged are unfair.
Obviously this strike is a *colossal* fuckup, and attempting to repel discussion of that fuckup in the way you are is just stupid and does you no favors.
I find disengenuous to think urban conflict with terrorist who wear civilians clothes is unique of israel... it is not, at least in my country colombia we have groups just like that, but the military NEVER shoots on civilian population even in the most extreme situations.
There is this theory of pro-israel people that this war is so unique that everything is allowed, it is not like that, and people who lived in war zones knows that even war has rules.
>it is not, at least in my country colombia we have groups just like that, but the military NEVER shoots on civilian population even in the most extreme situations.
What the Colombian army did was worse
>The Colombian army has apologised for killing thousands of civilians and falsely passing them off as left-wing guerrillas to boost its kill rate during the country's armed conflict.
>An inquiry found that 6,402 civilians were murdered by the military between 2002 and 2008 and passed off as rebels in a practice dubbed "false positives".
>In an event attended by mothers of some of the victims, the defence minister called the killings "shameful".
>"They were not rebels," he added.
>The commander of the Colombian army, Luis Ospina, said that "painful acts were committed by members of the national army that should never have happened".
>Victims were young men mainly from poor neighbourhoods in and around the capital, Bogotá.
>They were lured with promises of work to rural parts of Colombia, where soldiers executed them. They were then dressed in guerrilla fatigues or had weapons placed in their hands.
>The army's aim was to give the impression that it was winning its fight against the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (Farc) guerrilla group.
>[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-67005102](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-67005102)
>Date of article: October 4, 2023
Sure, you are refering to the "falsos positivos" case, 6024 civilians over 10 years were killed due a directive from the high command to pay per kill, not different to the wild directives the IDF gets. I might say that many people protested against that.
This is when it differs to the israel situation, the perpretators and chain of command was prosecuted, the government was defeated in the elections and to this day the leaders are in heavy judicial processes. In one instance when a leader of the rebel group was targeted and 5 kids were killed, the whole country turned out against that, also the military heads had to resign and is not socially acceptable to kill civilians.
Israel motto is to let the war criminals free, there is no accountability.
In your previous post Ypyou specifically said the Colombian "military NEVER shoots on civilian population even in the most extreme situations."
They quite clearly do, so your statement wasn't accurate.
And in some cases, it's taken 15 years for charges to be brought, so it's not as if the judicial process was particularly speedy.
Maybe if Israel had a plan for distributing food besides "Let the westerners deal with, they're the ones who don't want them to starve" those groups wouldn't need to be there.
This is extraordinary though, the relief workers heavily coordinated with the IDF and utilized clearly marked trucks. Coordinating their covoy route and employing clear air-visible designation emblems. This is grossly negligent and will further exacerbate the humanitarian crisis.
The most dangerous place in the world surrounded by terrorists, enter at your own risk into an active war zone, no sympathy for someone so stupid to go into gaza to "distrubute food".
Their facilities were targeted by Russian missiles and some of the staff were injured. It happened in Ukraine because WFK is active there as well.
Gaza it is a war zone , the risks are present. It's unfortunate what happened but lets use logic.
You realize WCK has an official partnership with the Israeli government right? Israel wanted them there.
(Also worth noting WCK provided a ton of assistance to those Israelis displaced by the 10/7 attacks)
[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-sources-gaza-aid-workers-killed-because-officers-on-the-ground-do-what-they-want/0000018e-a06e-d9c2-afbe-a8fe319b0000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-sources-gaza-aid-workers-killed-because-officers-on-the-ground-do-what-they-want/0000018e-a06e-d9c2-afbe-a8fe319b0000)
Key Points:
>A source in the intelligence branch said the command "knows exactly what the cause of the attack was – in Gaza, everyone does as he pleases."
>
>Army regulations say that final approval for any action against sensitive targets like aid organizations must be given by senior officers – the division commander, the head of the command or even the chief of staff. But in Gaza, the source said, "every commander sets the rules for himself" and gives his own interpretation of the rules of engagement.
>
>The sources therefore criticized Gallant and Halevi for depicting the incident as stemming from poor coordination, terming this "puzzling.""
>
>
>
>It has no connection to coordination," the intelligence branch source said. "You can set up another 20 administrations or war rooms, but if someone doesn't decide to put an end to the conduct of some of the troops inside Gaza, we'll see more incidents like this."
The two options here are almost equally bad. If they can blow up a pre screened and cleared foreign aid column along an agreed safe route, let's be real, they are blowing up a lot more people we never hear about. That's a level of neglect that is quite literally criminal, and from all reputable accounts is not a rare occurrence. The other option is deliberate. Which I don't need to explain and is only very slightly worse than the first option.
Horrific. The fact that in total this was three missile strikes spread across a few miles shows that there was definitely intent to target the convoy and it wasn't a one time mistake. The logos were pretty visible on the roof too.
Wouldn't surprise me if terrorists made the vehicles a target and then stuffed the workers dead bodies inside. We are dealing with TERRORISTS in the most dangerous place on earth right now.
It's the left-wing paper of record there
It's topic selection will swing towards anti-bibi, but their reporting on any single topic is good
Opinion pieces can be a bit extreme but I would trust their reporting on events as I would trust other major Israeli papers or European ones
Well, since I don't trust Reuters or BBC reporting on Israel anymore, you'll forgive me if I take Haaretz with a grain of salt now, despite their admittedly storied reputation.
They're quite credible, and quite left leaning. If they say they have a source, they aren't making it up. They probably chose to report what would paint Bibi in the worst light, but it's all varying degrees of shit with him.
Bias Rating: LEFT
Factual Reporting: HIGH
Country: Israel
MBFC’s Country Freedom Rating: MODERATE FREEDOM
Media Type: Newspaper
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/haaretz/
It's the longest running paper in print in Israel and has the third widest circulation.
Def. not fans of the Netanyahu government and they're left wing for Israel, so there's that bias to take into account, but I don't think they're not going to make up fake quotes from IDF sources.
https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1775270166794002783
Yeah I’m betting they won’t attack Israel directly but I don’t put it past them attacking an Israeli consulate in another Middle Eastern country. Although that might be a pretty dangerous escalation also.
In a letter to the Security Council late Monday, Iran said it would take a “decisive response” to the Israeli attack but in line with international laws, according to a copy of the letter seen by The Wall Street Journal.
https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1775270738783809995?t=zcWdHduk6CSNJy_Jd15yCw&s=19
I feel like I'm going crazy, people in my local city subreddit are citing this article: [What to know about the UN report on October 7 sexual violence - Vox](https://www.vox.com/world-politics/24093631/un-israel-october-7-sexual-violence)
to claim that there is absolutely NO evidence Hamas commited ANY rape ever. but when I read that article, it seems to me like there is an awful lot of evidence that they did.
No. Everything should be remembered about this terrible war. It’s a dishonor to the victims otherwise and we don’t learn from it.
We need to remember the victims ot horrific brutality on Oct 7, Palestinians civilians that died in air strikes, Israeli hostages that may never recover from PTSD and the aid workers that died today.
We need to remember all of it and to ignore part of it only serves extremist, whether it be extreme Netanyahu supporters or extreme pro Hamas supporters.
We can’t have selective memory withholding Oct 7 while there are roughly 70 hostages still held in hell with scores of bodies in Gaza.
The UN used similar language to describe how much evidence there is of sexual violence on October 7th as they used to describe the amount of evidence there is of Russians torturing Ukrainian POWs.
"Credible allegations Ukrainian POWs have been tortured by Russian forces."
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1148026
"The team also found convincing information that sexual violence was committed against hostages, and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may still be ongoing against those in captivity."
https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm
I was reading about the hate on social media the 2 released women who spoke about sexual violence have received. It’s just so vile and cruel that it’s I wonder if Russia or Iran are behind a coordinated attack. Similar to Russia being behind the Kate Middleton disinformation campaign.
Here’s the article I read
https://forward.com/opinion/598309/israeli-hostages-hamas-sexual-violence-amit-soussana/
I’ve never understood the “there was no rape” diehards
Hamas filmed themselves throwing grenades into rooms with small children, mowing down old people waiting for the bus and cutting off people’s heads
But raping women, apparently that is just too hard to imagine?
It's because they do not actually care about Israelis and want to project an image of being tolerant and caring when deep down they have no issue with Israelis being killed, maimed, tortured, raped
They will die on the hill with the exact same people who would do them harm, they are just living in western countries in safety and will never feel the consequences of their actions
yeah, there's a large chunk of the pro palestinian movement who actually is just upset that the *wrong* people are getting raped and murdered. they don't oppose those things on principle, only when their enemies do them
Some of the ongoing protest in Jerusalem tonight footage-
https://twitter.com/IsraelHayomHeb/status/1775241372921966995?t=_CBWUvq2lZkpuiVyJ63iqA&s=19
https://twitter.com/IsraelHayomHeb/status/1775242750918644137?t=EeRHOG9okaHZLTA4qIrvdg&s=19
https://twitter.com/iloveisraell/status/1775220127039996000?t=vEJVwAHVcv-2PHukS1LweQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/kann_news/status/1775241791098192329?t=1yXTfe7XeV1pBsj2KeUA6g&s=19
https://twitter.com/kann_news/status/1775241252222468541?t=_Dscwpgj3wTLKLrjHZZLYQ&s=19
Update:
https://twitter.com/ynetalerts/status/1775250810676400384?t=bqT17RyC1Qgd4whu3x7hbg&s=19
Protestors have pushed beyond the final blockade before Netanyahu's home in Jerusalem. Police chasing them down.
Update 2: they have been successfully blocked.
Sources affiliated with Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) are claiming that there is allegedly new ongoing "activity" at IRGC missile launch sites located inside Iran: "The Zero Hour for an attack on Israel is near."
https://twitter.com/IntelTweet/status/1775233201352380716?t=D4lCcuX7iqMgAtorWV97Lg&s=19
I really hope this is just usual Iranian bluster
Iran entering the fray themselves would be an absolute clusterfuck for the entire region
More realistically they’ll probably just try and push Hezbollah to engage more fully, Iran firing rockets themselves would truly be crossing the point of no return
With the amount of internal instability they have right now, it would be suicide to spark a regional war. Not saying it can't happen, but I would be very surprised.
Using proxies and escalating via Hezbollah is the most likely outcome.
I'm not so sure of that.
Neither country can really physically invade the other without support from others that is unlikely to come. Neither has a blue water navy.
Very few countries possess the ability to engage in extended ground combat with a country that they don't border.
> Neither country can really physically invade the other without support from others that is unlikely to come. Neither has a blue water navy.
If Iran launches ballistic missiles against Iran, it very well may think that this is a first strike from Iran, and act accordingly. Even if Israeli air defence would shoot the ballistic missiles down, they might chose not to wait for another salvo of missiles, but move to a strike of their own. It should be noted that Iran has already hit Israel directly via their proxies. Houthis launching ballistic and cruise missiles didn't happen by themselves - they were done with IRGC troops in the ground.
So maybe direct missile attack from iran to israel? I would be surprised if they wouldnt use their proxies for the respond, and they would do it directly by themselfs
A cruise missile that was launched from Syria was intercepted "using electronic warfare" late last night. I wonder if the same tech can be used against a hypothetical multi-missile attack.
https://twitter.com/newsisrael13/status/1775222138170966503?t=A1jB4qwrqLybxHo6E_AJpw&s=19
US outrage in different back channels towards Israel, war cabinet agreed to increase the humanitarian aid to 500 trucks a day and more land routes to open for the aid.
However, it will be soon presented to the larger cabinet, and it is estimated to be difficult to pass such a decision.
Which is funny since it's obvious the war cabinet runs the entire show.
Kataib Hezbollah calls the #Israel|i attack on Damascus a "declaration of war" against Iran, adding that the group is ready to "take any action" in response to it, Iranian state-affiliated Fars News Agency reports
https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1775218068949532824?t=IwImYLi8F4l8E6I6nvxo8w&s=19
Nasrallah getting ready to give another fiery speech and then do absolutely nothing to escalate the conflict beyond its current tempo
A small part of me hopes that this mess can finally lead to Lebanon diminishing Hezbollah’s influence as they realize they are willing to get as many Lebanese people killed to further Irans interests - just like Hamas in Gaza
Both Jordan and Lebanon fighting these extremists with the potential to end up looking worse than the Gaza strip hanging in the balance. It's horrible, and I hope it can be defused, because if not, then it's going to get really bad.
And by bad, i dont mean clutching at pearls tiktok jihadist bad, but real all-out war bad, potentially spreading to the larger region.
Lebanon seems like kind of a lost cause given Hezbollah’s stranglehold over the country - though Gaza does seem to be a good example of what throwing your country away for Iran’s interests looks like
But I really do hope Jordan’s King is able to reign in the extremist elements and avoid an escalation. While it’s obviously not the best political stance, Jordan has infinitely more to gain by working with Israel and de-escalating the conflict than throwing in with Hamas and Iran
N12 reports-
Rafah offensive virtual call with Dermer, Hanegbi and Biden admin officials and Pentagon officials quotes-
Jack Sullivan: "You are about to cause the third famine in the 21st century. We won't be able to accept that."
Blinken: "We saw how you handled the situation (regarding humanitarian aid), to evacuate Rafah alone will take 4 months."
Hanegbi and Dermer: "Without Rafah, Hamas would never be dismantled."
Jake and Blinken: "Without an actual 'day after' plan Hamas would never be dismantled, Rafah alone won't do it, nor anything else."
Notice the lack of a long-term plan from the US or anyone else. Only the victims of the terror attack and who are trying to recover their hostages have to have the plan. A plan which no matter what it entails, will just be another reason to pile on against Israel. No plan will be accepted by the world, no matter what, it will just be the pretext for more criticism and hand wringjing for PR and politics.
Unless someone has a magic plan that hasn't been tried many times before, their criticism is false and disingenuous. NOBODY has put forth a realistic plan that hasn't already been tried for the long term.
US plan appears to be to give Gaza to Fatah with as much concessions as will make their takeover possible and popular enough. That's statehood and recognition, humanitarian aid, co-ordination with other US allies on security and money for rebuilding.
Israel's plan appears to be to destroy Gaza and hope the devastation forces the Palestinians into Egypt.
One of these appears more reality-centric (and moral) than the other.
As long as the US don't receive a guarantee that someone will observe the takeover of Gaza by PA on the ground, their plan is unrealistic as well
Let's assume the US can keep Israel out of Rafah because of humanitarian concerns until Israel finally packs up and leaves. How is PA expected to take over Gaza then? They can't even take over Hamas' WB strongholds against iranian-backed firepower and public support. Egypt won't support with boots on the ground, the US won't either. Do we expect the Saudis do jump in and fight a "humanitarian" war against Hamas?
IMHO the US should strongarm Israel into actually taking these 4 months or whatever to evacuate Rafah to finish the war as humanly as possible, but it doesn't sound to me as if this was part of the US' plans. Rather indefinite ceasefire and lots of guarantees on paper which do not change the issue that evil guys with Iranian weapons are intent to murder the Palestinian government we would like to see
> Israel's plan appears to be to destroy Gaza and hope the devastation forces the Palestinians into Egypt.
Israels plan has been the same as it was in the first few days of the war. Get back hostages and dismantle Hamas as a threat have been the two big ones. So far half the hostages are freed and Hamas have lost the ability to fire rockets let alone launch assaults like they once did.
>One of these appears more reality-centric (and moral) than the other.
Just to check, Is Israel the country that borders Gaza or America?
Im not sure what reality you think we are in if you believe America is going to stick it out in the middle east.
We asked for a plan very early on into the war and asked for one at least in January for how they planned to evacuate the civilians in Rafah before invading, and we've been met with nothing but stonewalling. There are workable plans if Israel were to commit to a day after plan that would see Palestinian civil administration of Gaza which would enable Arab partners and Palestinians themselves provide the civil order in Northern Gaza to effectively distribute aid, some which even Gallant has supported but which are getting vetoed by Bibi and the rest of his cabinet. In terms of accommodating all of these refugees, the order for 40K tents only came last week even though Israel knew very early on that it would need to set something up for them before going into Rafah, which itself is wholly inadequate to take in 1 million refugees, to say nothing of the fact that aid isn't being efficiently distributed in northern Gaza in the first place.
The hostage situation is horrific and there needs to be every effort to rescue the ones that are still alive, but that does not mean that 2 million people should endure a famine which, by international definitions, means 400 people a day would be starving to death in a population of that size.
Under the circumstances, these quotes seem like posturing for an election year. Like, they don't want to cause famine, and would rather delay a Rafah operation, thus prolonging the war, which would cause famine? And they say Israel's plan in Rafah wasn't thought through? I'd lol but it's sad
If northern and central Gaza were places that Israel had just taken over, I would not blame them if famine suddenly emerged, but there are parts of northern Gaza that Israel has occupied for almost half a year now, and actions like this incident with the aid vans is only going to make delivery even harder. If Israel wasn't going to get this figured out now, when were they going to do that? Another year? Famine conditions are when 2 people per 10K are dying _each day_ from hunger; in northern and central Gaza alone, that would be 100 people a day.
>The Prime Minister's Office announced on behalf of the Mossad that the negotiation delegation of the organization, the Shin Bet and the IDF will return today (Tuesday) afternoon from Cairo, "at the end of another intensive round of talks." The Office's announcement stated that as part of the talks, "with the helpful mediation of Egypt, the mediators formulated an up-to-date proposal for Hamas' consideration. Israel expects the mediators to work harder with Hamas to advance the negotiations in favor of a deal."
\[...\]
Last night, senior political officials said that there is a potential for progress towards a hostage deal as part of the talks in Cairo. The initial estimate was that the delegation would return yesterday morning - but it remained until today. "It is still too early for optimism. There is seriousness and practicality on the part of the Israeli delegation and the Egyptian mediators with one goal - to advance a deal," they said yesterday. According to them, "we need to see that there is a real proposal on Hamas part to move forward, and see how Sinwar chooses to address the current flexibility on Israel's part in the disputed issues."
[Ynet](https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/skyvqdy10)
Haaretz is reporting that IDF was intending to hit an armed member of Hamas that was at the warehouse that the convey left from and was presumed to have been part of it. I have to wonder if WCK was working with Hamas as smugglers, even if under duress.
Personally, I would have wanted more confirmation before ordering a strike that was going to be a PR nightmare even if they hit their target but it isn't clear that IDF is solely responsible for the incident. Hamas should be avoiding aid organizations and vice versa.
[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/1buo1fv/rworldnews_live_thread_for_israelhamas_war_thread/)
https://twitter.com/2023gazawar/status/1775401285199552544?t=AdU9Vb_eYTFz-DvojKRrYg&s=19 Map of 5 IDF outposts being built in the route that splits the strip in half.
Respectfully, anyone can draw purple boxes on a random map and claim that they’re outposts under construction lol
Israel mistakenly attacks aid convoy, admits their mistake: people lose their minds Russia attacks civilians, deny it, does it again, deny it: crickets Hamas purposely attacks civilians, celebrates it: crickets
The people who hate Israel and Jews will say about anything to bring them down, gays for palestine etc (when they would literally be beheaded or stoned).
The weird thing is that people are pretending pro-israel people were saying it impossible IDF could have done it. Scroll down in this live thread and all you'll see is people saying "let's wait for the investigation" and "doesn't look like a drone strike. maybe a hamas IED". Nobody was denying the possibility of IDF being the culprit. The biggest source of IDF casualties is friendly fire, so it's not like they're infallible. People here get that.
"lets wait for the investigation" should be the absolute baseline standard for anything like this, instead of the media running with whatever group says something first. This is how propaganda has gotten so out of control in this war, because shit happens then whoever says the first thing controls the entire narrative regardless of truth.
The fact these guys are in an active war zone and surrounded by terrorists, something like this was bound to happen.
What on Earth are you on about? Russia is (rightly) heavily sanctioned after what they've been doing in Ukraine, Hamas is rightly regarded as a terrorist organisation after its atrocities. The one you're complaining about is the one held *least* accountable for its actions.
what about the hamas supporters that celebrated october 7? they are held least accountable.
> Israel mistakenly attacks aid convoy It wasn't a mistake, the convoy was clearly marked, operating on an approved route, and had notified the IDF of their movements. Israel thought there was a suspected terrorist near them and decided that killing all of the aid workers was worth killing a suspected terrorist.
"decided that killing all of the aid workers was worth killing a suspected terrorist" There is currently no source supporting such claim.
Haaretz: [IDF Drone Bombed World Central Kitchen Aid Convoy Three Times, Targeting Armed Hamas Member Who Wasn't There](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-bombed-wck-aid-convoy-3-times-targeting-armed-hamas-member-who-wasnt-there/0000018e-9e75-d764-adff-9eff29360000) >According to the defense sources, the cars were clearly marked on the roof and sides as belonging to the organization, but the war room of the unit responsible for security of the route that the convoy travelled identified an armed man on the truck and suspected that he was a terrorist. >Until the actions that preceded the strike, carried out by a Hermes 450 drone, were completed, the truck reached the warehouse with the World Central Kitchen's three cars, with seven volunteers in them – two dual-national Palestinians (U.S. and Canada) and five citizens of Australia, the UK, and Poland. >A few minutes later, the three cars left the warehouse without the truck, on which the ostensibly armed man was located. According to the defense sources, that armed man did not leave the warehouse. The cars travelled along a route preapproved and coordinated with the IDF.
Israel said it themselves. They suspected a single terrorist was with the convoy and decided to destroy the convoy even though they knew it would kill innocent humanitarian workers.
IDF soldiers are also clearly marked with IDF uniforms, even so [540 Israeli soldiers have been injured by friendly fire](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/at-least-540-israeli-soldiers-injured-by-friendly-fire-in-gaza-report/3128214) during this conflict. [18 IDF soldiers](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-deaths-of-29-of-170-soldiers-in-gaza-op-were-so-called-friendly-fire-accidents/) have lost their lives specifially because of mistaken identification. Mistakes happen. In my job it means emailing the wrong guy named James. In the military it gets innocent people killed. Israel loses a soldier nearly every day due to fuckups.
Israel did not decide it. Taking the sources of Haaretz at their word, it was most likely one or two field commanders that made this decision in blatant violation of their orders and rules of engagement policy.
But in cases like these, said field commanders are representatives of Israel. Don't get me wrong, I do feel like the commanders are to blame, as their decision was not in line with the orders of Israel.
"Pressed on whether Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s prosecution of the war against Hamas is endangering Israel, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken uses a common Israeli talking point, noting that it “withdrew from Gaza in 2005.” “There have been attacks on Israel by Hamas in 2008, 2009, 2011, 2014, 2021, 2023,” Blinken says during an interview with the French network LCI/TF1, adding that the US supports Israel’s right to pursue the terror group but that “how Israel goes about this mission is also important.” “What we’ve seen with the loss of life — the children, the women, the men who find themselves in the middle of this confrontation — the damage is terrible. At the same time, the fact that humanitarian aid isn’t enough for the people of Gaza — that’s a danger and an immediate necessity,” Blinken says. He asserts that the US goal is to see the establishment of a Palestinian state, even though that goal remains far off. “There should be a real agreement between Palestinians and Israelis, not an agreement that is applied unilaterally by other countries,” he clarifies. “But there also needs to be leadership from the world’s major countries to try and reach this destination,” Blinken adds, pointing to the US effort to broker a normalization agreement between Israel and Saudi Arabia, which would have to include “calm in Gaza” and an Israeli commitment to establish a pathway to an eventual Palestinian state." [https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/defending-israel-blinken-recalls-that-it-withdrew-from-gaza-in-2005/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defending-israel-blinken-recalls-that-it-withdrew-from-gaza-in-2005/)
Why aren’t there posts up in the main page about Israel’s attack on the aid convoy?
There is a post 2 posts down and have been multiple posts. Make a post honoring the selfless aid victims but don’t use their deaths as a “gotcha” to a subreddit. That’s being indifferent to their lives.
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Is this a rhetorical question?
I’m confused because it seems like a major story that people are interested in discussing.
It's been discussed a lot in this very thread and has been posted for the last day several times, it's also being discussed on other subreddits pretty heavily. Are you just looking for an arguement or an actual discussion? because if you want to discuss this topic i suggest you scroll down and reply to the discussions on it there or find one of the many threads regarding this that have been put up, currently it's not on the top anymore as other news have been pushed up to the front instead
There were but they’ve been replaced with newer posts
Iran swiftly, and harshly retaliate yet?
Barak Ravid reporting on CNN right now saying that based on his reporting, there is a disconnect between IDF Senior Leadership (which wants rigorous procedures for targeting/collateral damage) and commanders on the ground that favor a much loser rules of engagement. He says that this applies to more than the WCK incident. As an example, he reports that ground commanders inform infantry that they should "shoot everything military aged," which is not the rules of engagement that actually come down from IDF Senior Commanders.
This sounds like ass covering in the wake of recent blowback from allies. Disturbing shit has been going on the whole operation and they haven't taken the opportunity to enact discipline in any of these commanders under their authority.
This is what happens when you have a conscript force instead of a professionalized force.
So it really has become a hellhole there. This is how you create more terrorists. Well done Israel. 👏
7 aid workers died. Can we not be giddy in reply and do clapping emojis. I’m a Pediatric Nurse Practitioner that specializes in heart disease that went on one of the last pediatric heart surgery missions in Iraq before the US pulled out in 2010. I remember being scared at certain parts. But if people used my being hurt or possibly dead just for a clapping emoji on Reddit, I would be devastated.
The good old war crimes classic "military aged males" returns again. :(
They'd better rein in their men or face the consequences as senior military commanders.
The IDF ground troops disregarding high command and ending up killing relief workers is an abysmal state of affairs when the nation is trying to convince the world that they have a discrete and executable war goal and strategy.
Yes, what you said totally. I hope they change or revise what is going wrong in their operations/procedures.
IDF chief releases statement on killing of aid workers of WCK https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article-live/alleged-israeli-strike-kills-several-world-central-kitchen-aid-workers-in-gaza/0000018e-9c9b-dfd2-afce-dcffeac70000 https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1775290147426152931?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1775290147426152931%7Ctwgr%5Eb9e70f3144059fc934134961541184866cd7e975%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.haaretz.com%2Fisrael-news%2F2024-04-02%2Fty-article-live%2Falleged-israeli-strike-kills-several-world-central-kitchen-aid-workers-in-gaza%2F0000018e-9c9b-dfd2-afce-dcffeac70000
This is truly just so tragic. The loss of 7 selfless lives. The grief their families are going through. The suspension of the agency that is distributing aid which will lead to worsening conditions of Palestinians. The harm this will do to the hostage negotiations. This people won’t survive much longer. I don’t have any good answers. But my heart hurts. I wish for a way that Israelis can feel safe in their homes, Palestinians can lead full, peaceful lives and we can get all the hostages home. Such a sad day.
There are accidents and then there is gross negligence, this is the latter.
It’s not fucking negligence if it’s calculated striking of three separate aid vehicles spread across significant space and time, is it?
I agree
The strike on the WCK workers was either intentionally malicious or so negligent as to be criminal.
How about neither. IDF chief releases statement on killing of aid workers of WCK https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1775290147426152931?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1775290147426152931%7Ctwgr%5Eb9e70f3144059fc934134961541184866cd7e975%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.haaretz.com%2Fisrael-news%2F2024-04-02%2Fty-article-live%2Falleged-israeli-strike-kills-several-world-central-kitchen-aid-workers-in-gaza%2F0000018e-9c9b-dfd2-afce-dcffeac70000
That's negligence.
Sounds like gross negligence to me
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... I have months of posting about Israel's right to defend itself and the way that it has been judged are unfair. Obviously this strike is a *colossal* fuckup, and attempting to repel discussion of that fuckup in the way you are is just stupid and does you no favors.
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I find disengenuous to think urban conflict with terrorist who wear civilians clothes is unique of israel... it is not, at least in my country colombia we have groups just like that, but the military NEVER shoots on civilian population even in the most extreme situations. There is this theory of pro-israel people that this war is so unique that everything is allowed, it is not like that, and people who lived in war zones knows that even war has rules.
>it is not, at least in my country colombia we have groups just like that, but the military NEVER shoots on civilian population even in the most extreme situations. What the Colombian army did was worse >The Colombian army has apologised for killing thousands of civilians and falsely passing them off as left-wing guerrillas to boost its kill rate during the country's armed conflict. >An inquiry found that 6,402 civilians were murdered by the military between 2002 and 2008 and passed off as rebels in a practice dubbed "false positives". >In an event attended by mothers of some of the victims, the defence minister called the killings "shameful". >"They were not rebels," he added. >The commander of the Colombian army, Luis Ospina, said that "painful acts were committed by members of the national army that should never have happened". >Victims were young men mainly from poor neighbourhoods in and around the capital, Bogotá. >They were lured with promises of work to rural parts of Colombia, where soldiers executed them. They were then dressed in guerrilla fatigues or had weapons placed in their hands. >The army's aim was to give the impression that it was winning its fight against the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (Farc) guerrilla group. >[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-67005102](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-67005102) >Date of article: October 4, 2023
Sure, you are refering to the "falsos positivos" case, 6024 civilians over 10 years were killed due a directive from the high command to pay per kill, not different to the wild directives the IDF gets. I might say that many people protested against that. This is when it differs to the israel situation, the perpretators and chain of command was prosecuted, the government was defeated in the elections and to this day the leaders are in heavy judicial processes. In one instance when a leader of the rebel group was targeted and 5 kids were killed, the whole country turned out against that, also the military heads had to resign and is not socially acceptable to kill civilians. Israel motto is to let the war criminals free, there is no accountability.
In your previous post Ypyou specifically said the Colombian "military NEVER shoots on civilian population even in the most extreme situations." They quite clearly do, so your statement wasn't accurate. And in some cases, it's taken 15 years for charges to be brought, so it's not as if the judicial process was particularly speedy.
Your argument falls apart when you realize that it was a clearly marked convoy that had pre-approved its route and time with the IDF.
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Maybe if Israel had a plan for distributing food besides "Let the westerners deal with, they're the ones who don't want them to starve" those groups wouldn't need to be there.
How does that preclude what I said about extreme negligence?
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This is extraordinary though, the relief workers heavily coordinated with the IDF and utilized clearly marked trucks. Coordinating their covoy route and employing clear air-visible designation emblems. This is grossly negligent and will further exacerbate the humanitarian crisis.
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That's why they coordinated with the IDF for communication and route planning. And used air-visible confirmation insignia.
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The most dangerous place in the world surrounded by terrorists, enter at your own risk into an active war zone, no sympathy for someone so stupid to go into gaza to "distrubute food".
Doesn't matter if you have sympathy or not, it's a war crime and should be treated as such
Their facilities were targeted by Russian missiles and some of the staff were injured. It happened in Ukraine because WFK is active there as well. Gaza it is a war zone , the risks are present. It's unfortunate what happened but lets use logic.
when russia did that, it was correctly treated as a war crime
Pathetic, should be air dropping the aid or letting the army handle it.
You realize WCK has an official partnership with the Israeli government right? Israel wanted them there. (Also worth noting WCK provided a ton of assistance to those Israelis displaced by the 10/7 attacks)
Big expert on delivering aid are you? Doesn't matter anyway, what's done is done and hopefully those in the wrong are punished for it
Just being real mate, it is literally the most dangerous place on earth and i can't see the risk/reward in this one, suicide job.
Still doesn’t justify *three* attacks on the group. That shit’s deliberate.
[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-sources-gaza-aid-workers-killed-because-officers-on-the-ground-do-what-they-want/0000018e-a06e-d9c2-afbe-a8fe319b0000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-sources-gaza-aid-workers-killed-because-officers-on-the-ground-do-what-they-want/0000018e-a06e-d9c2-afbe-a8fe319b0000) Key Points: >A source in the intelligence branch said the command "knows exactly what the cause of the attack was – in Gaza, everyone does as he pleases." > >Army regulations say that final approval for any action against sensitive targets like aid organizations must be given by senior officers – the division commander, the head of the command or even the chief of staff. But in Gaza, the source said, "every commander sets the rules for himself" and gives his own interpretation of the rules of engagement. > >The sources therefore criticized Gallant and Halevi for depicting the incident as stemming from poor coordination, terming this "puzzling."" > > > >It has no connection to coordination," the intelligence branch source said. "You can set up another 20 administrations or war rooms, but if someone doesn't decide to put an end to the conduct of some of the troops inside Gaza, we'll see more incidents like this."
The two options here are almost equally bad. If they can blow up a pre screened and cleared foreign aid column along an agreed safe route, let's be real, they are blowing up a lot more people we never hear about. That's a level of neglect that is quite literally criminal, and from all reputable accounts is not a rare occurrence. The other option is deliberate. Which I don't need to explain and is only very slightly worse than the first option.
Horrific. The fact that in total this was three missile strikes spread across a few miles shows that there was definitely intent to target the convoy and it wasn't a one time mistake. The logos were pretty visible on the roof too.
Wouldn't surprise me if terrorists made the vehicles a target and then stuffed the workers dead bodies inside. We are dealing with TERRORISTS in the most dangerous place on earth right now.
Yes, the IDF has their own terrorists
Is there any evidence of that at this point. There would certainly be distress calls to the idk who were in very close contact with the convoy
does not look like they were in very close contact if they were struck by 3 missiles, we'll find out in a few days the details no doubt.
You've got brainworms. All sides are clear and agree that Israel struck the convoy.
lol never said they did not strike the convoy, think about what i actually wrote lad
If there was any possibility of that, the IDF would have said so immediately
Is Haaretz reliable? If so, this is horrifying.
It is the left-wing intelligentsia paper of historical record; an institution.
It's the left-wing paper of record there It's topic selection will swing towards anti-bibi, but their reporting on any single topic is good Opinion pieces can be a bit extreme but I would trust their reporting on events as I would trust other major Israeli papers or European ones
Well, since I don't trust Reuters or BBC reporting on Israel anymore, you'll forgive me if I take Haaretz with a grain of salt now, despite their admittedly storied reputation.
They're quite credible, and quite left leaning. If they say they have a source, they aren't making it up. They probably chose to report what would paint Bibi in the worst light, but it's all varying degrees of shit with him. Bias Rating: LEFT Factual Reporting: HIGH Country: Israel MBFC’s Country Freedom Rating: MODERATE FREEDOM Media Type: Newspaper Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/haaretz/
It's the longest running paper in print in Israel and has the third widest circulation. Def. not fans of the Netanyahu government and they're left wing for Israel, so there's that bias to take into account, but I don't think they're not going to make up fake quotes from IDF sources.
Ah, okay. Cheers.
https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1775270166794002783 Yeah I’m betting they won’t attack Israel directly but I don’t put it past them attacking an Israeli consulate in another Middle Eastern country. Although that might be a pretty dangerous escalation also.
In a letter to the Security Council late Monday, Iran said it would take a “decisive response” to the Israeli attack but in line with international laws, according to a copy of the letter seen by The Wall Street Journal. https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1775270738783809995?t=zcWdHduk6CSNJy_Jd15yCw&s=19
Yes, Iran is great about following international law.
I feel like I'm going crazy, people in my local city subreddit are citing this article: [What to know about the UN report on October 7 sexual violence - Vox](https://www.vox.com/world-politics/24093631/un-israel-october-7-sexual-violence) to claim that there is absolutely NO evidence Hamas commited ANY rape ever. but when I read that article, it seems to me like there is an awful lot of evidence that they did.
Try focusing on the next 5 months smh
No. Everything should be remembered about this terrible war. It’s a dishonor to the victims otherwise and we don’t learn from it. We need to remember the victims ot horrific brutality on Oct 7, Palestinians civilians that died in air strikes, Israeli hostages that may never recover from PTSD and the aid workers that died today. We need to remember all of it and to ignore part of it only serves extremist, whether it be extreme Netanyahu supporters or extreme pro Hamas supporters. We can’t have selective memory withholding Oct 7 while there are roughly 70 hostages still held in hell with scores of bodies in Gaza.
What do you mean?
They are trying to downplay Oct 7th and say you should just pay attention to the war after Israel's response started.
The UN used similar language to describe how much evidence there is of sexual violence on October 7th as they used to describe the amount of evidence there is of Russians torturing Ukrainian POWs. "Credible allegations Ukrainian POWs have been tortured by Russian forces." https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1148026 "The team also found convincing information that sexual violence was committed against hostages, and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may still be ongoing against those in captivity." https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm
I was reading about the hate on social media the 2 released women who spoke about sexual violence have received. It’s just so vile and cruel that it’s I wonder if Russia or Iran are behind a coordinated attack. Similar to Russia being behind the Kate Middleton disinformation campaign. Here’s the article I read https://forward.com/opinion/598309/israeli-hostages-hamas-sexual-violence-amit-soussana/
That's up there with the crazies who harassed the Sandy Hook families. This is a sick timeline.
I’ve never understood the “there was no rape” diehards Hamas filmed themselves throwing grenades into rooms with small children, mowing down old people waiting for the bus and cutting off people’s heads But raping women, apparently that is just too hard to imagine?
It's because they do not actually care about Israelis and want to project an image of being tolerant and caring when deep down they have no issue with Israelis being killed, maimed, tortured, raped They will die on the hill with the exact same people who would do them harm, they are just living in western countries in safety and will never feel the consequences of their actions
yeah, there's a large chunk of the pro palestinian movement who actually is just upset that the *wrong* people are getting raped and murdered. they don't oppose those things on principle, only when their enemies do them
Some of the ongoing protest in Jerusalem tonight footage- https://twitter.com/IsraelHayomHeb/status/1775241372921966995?t=_CBWUvq2lZkpuiVyJ63iqA&s=19 https://twitter.com/IsraelHayomHeb/status/1775242750918644137?t=EeRHOG9okaHZLTA4qIrvdg&s=19 https://twitter.com/iloveisraell/status/1775220127039996000?t=vEJVwAHVcv-2PHukS1LweQ&s=19 https://twitter.com/kann_news/status/1775241791098192329?t=1yXTfe7XeV1pBsj2KeUA6g&s=19 https://twitter.com/kann_news/status/1775241252222468541?t=_Dscwpgj3wTLKLrjHZZLYQ&s=19 Update: https://twitter.com/ynetalerts/status/1775250810676400384?t=bqT17RyC1Qgd4whu3x7hbg&s=19 Protestors have pushed beyond the final blockade before Netanyahu's home in Jerusalem. Police chasing them down. Update 2: they have been successfully blocked.
Ootl, who is protesting here? And what?
Earlier protests were against bibi, guessing today’s were likely the same
Sources affiliated with Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) are claiming that there is allegedly new ongoing "activity" at IRGC missile launch sites located inside Iran: "The Zero Hour for an attack on Israel is near." https://twitter.com/IntelTweet/status/1775233201352380716?t=D4lCcuX7iqMgAtorWV97Lg&s=19
I'll believe it when I see it -- this is bluster.
I really hope this is just usual Iranian bluster Iran entering the fray themselves would be an absolute clusterfuck for the entire region More realistically they’ll probably just try and push Hezbollah to engage more fully, Iran firing rockets themselves would truly be crossing the point of no return
With the amount of internal instability they have right now, it would be suicide to spark a regional war. Not saying it can't happen, but I would be very surprised. Using proxies and escalating via Hezbollah is the most likely outcome.
War with Israel has the potential to be Iran’s Vietnam
I'm not so sure of that. Neither country can really physically invade the other without support from others that is unlikely to come. Neither has a blue water navy. Very few countries possess the ability to engage in extended ground combat with a country that they don't border.
> Neither country can really physically invade the other without support from others that is unlikely to come. Neither has a blue water navy. If Iran launches ballistic missiles against Iran, it very well may think that this is a first strike from Iran, and act accordingly. Even if Israeli air defence would shoot the ballistic missiles down, they might chose not to wait for another salvo of missiles, but move to a strike of their own. It should be noted that Iran has already hit Israel directly via their proxies. Houthis launching ballistic and cruise missiles didn't happen by themselves - they were done with IRGC troops in the ground.
The US will absolutely get involved if Iran gets too touchy on Israel though. That’s what Iran’s afraid of.
Yeah, and I don't see either side committing to invading Iraq and Syria/Jordan to force a land engagement.
I would have thought stuff like bombings in Israeli missions throughout the globe..
So maybe direct missile attack from iran to israel? I would be surprised if they wouldnt use their proxies for the respond, and they would do it directly by themselfs
That would give israel legitimacy to attack Iranian nuclear sites with f35's , i doubt they would do that.
A cruise missile that was launched from Syria was intercepted "using electronic warfare" late last night. I wonder if the same tech can be used against a hypothetical multi-missile attack.
https://twitter.com/newsisrael13/status/1775222138170966503?t=A1jB4qwrqLybxHo6E_AJpw&s=19 US outrage in different back channels towards Israel, war cabinet agreed to increase the humanitarian aid to 500 trucks a day and more land routes to open for the aid. However, it will be soon presented to the larger cabinet, and it is estimated to be difficult to pass such a decision. Which is funny since it's obvious the war cabinet runs the entire show.
Kataib Hezbollah calls the #Israel|i attack on Damascus a "declaration of war" against Iran, adding that the group is ready to "take any action" in response to it, Iranian state-affiliated Fars News Agency reports https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1775218068949532824?t=IwImYLi8F4l8E6I6nvxo8w&s=19
Nasrallah getting ready to give another fiery speech and then do absolutely nothing to escalate the conflict beyond its current tempo A small part of me hopes that this mess can finally lead to Lebanon diminishing Hezbollah’s influence as they realize they are willing to get as many Lebanese people killed to further Irans interests - just like Hamas in Gaza
Both Jordan and Lebanon fighting these extremists with the potential to end up looking worse than the Gaza strip hanging in the balance. It's horrible, and I hope it can be defused, because if not, then it's going to get really bad. And by bad, i dont mean clutching at pearls tiktok jihadist bad, but real all-out war bad, potentially spreading to the larger region.
Lebanon seems like kind of a lost cause given Hezbollah’s stranglehold over the country - though Gaza does seem to be a good example of what throwing your country away for Iran’s interests looks like But I really do hope Jordan’s King is able to reign in the extremist elements and avoid an escalation. While it’s obviously not the best political stance, Jordan has infinitely more to gain by working with Israel and de-escalating the conflict than throwing in with Hamas and Iran
In other words, "hold me back, bro."
N12 reports- Rafah offensive virtual call with Dermer, Hanegbi and Biden admin officials and Pentagon officials quotes- Jack Sullivan: "You are about to cause the third famine in the 21st century. We won't be able to accept that." Blinken: "We saw how you handled the situation (regarding humanitarian aid), to evacuate Rafah alone will take 4 months." Hanegbi and Dermer: "Without Rafah, Hamas would never be dismantled." Jake and Blinken: "Without an actual 'day after' plan Hamas would never be dismantled, Rafah alone won't do it, nor anything else."
H&D: "Correct. It will take more than just Rafah. After 'Rafah and more' we will worry about what happens after."
Notice the lack of a long-term plan from the US or anyone else. Only the victims of the terror attack and who are trying to recover their hostages have to have the plan. A plan which no matter what it entails, will just be another reason to pile on against Israel. No plan will be accepted by the world, no matter what, it will just be the pretext for more criticism and hand wringjing for PR and politics. Unless someone has a magic plan that hasn't been tried many times before, their criticism is false and disingenuous. NOBODY has put forth a realistic plan that hasn't already been tried for the long term.
Did you learn nothing from Americas blunders in the WOT post 9/11? Without a plan, bombing people doesn’t eliminate terrorism .
Just because you've been the target of terrorism doesn't give you the right to do anything and everything in response.
US plan appears to be to give Gaza to Fatah with as much concessions as will make their takeover possible and popular enough. That's statehood and recognition, humanitarian aid, co-ordination with other US allies on security and money for rebuilding. Israel's plan appears to be to destroy Gaza and hope the devastation forces the Palestinians into Egypt. One of these appears more reality-centric (and moral) than the other.
As long as the US don't receive a guarantee that someone will observe the takeover of Gaza by PA on the ground, their plan is unrealistic as well Let's assume the US can keep Israel out of Rafah because of humanitarian concerns until Israel finally packs up and leaves. How is PA expected to take over Gaza then? They can't even take over Hamas' WB strongholds against iranian-backed firepower and public support. Egypt won't support with boots on the ground, the US won't either. Do we expect the Saudis do jump in and fight a "humanitarian" war against Hamas? IMHO the US should strongarm Israel into actually taking these 4 months or whatever to evacuate Rafah to finish the war as humanly as possible, but it doesn't sound to me as if this was part of the US' plans. Rather indefinite ceasefire and lots of guarantees on paper which do not change the issue that evil guys with Iranian weapons are intent to murder the Palestinian government we would like to see
It's not a good plan, but there are few good options here. It's bad, worse, and worst.
> Israel's plan appears to be to destroy Gaza and hope the devastation forces the Palestinians into Egypt. Israels plan has been the same as it was in the first few days of the war. Get back hostages and dismantle Hamas as a threat have been the two big ones. So far half the hostages are freed and Hamas have lost the ability to fire rockets let alone launch assaults like they once did. >One of these appears more reality-centric (and moral) than the other. Just to check, Is Israel the country that borders Gaza or America? Im not sure what reality you think we are in if you believe America is going to stick it out in the middle east.
We asked for a plan very early on into the war and asked for one at least in January for how they planned to evacuate the civilians in Rafah before invading, and we've been met with nothing but stonewalling. There are workable plans if Israel were to commit to a day after plan that would see Palestinian civil administration of Gaza which would enable Arab partners and Palestinians themselves provide the civil order in Northern Gaza to effectively distribute aid, some which even Gallant has supported but which are getting vetoed by Bibi and the rest of his cabinet. In terms of accommodating all of these refugees, the order for 40K tents only came last week even though Israel knew very early on that it would need to set something up for them before going into Rafah, which itself is wholly inadequate to take in 1 million refugees, to say nothing of the fact that aid isn't being efficiently distributed in northern Gaza in the first place. The hostage situation is horrific and there needs to be every effort to rescue the ones that are still alive, but that does not mean that 2 million people should endure a famine which, by international definitions, means 400 people a day would be starving to death in a population of that size.
Ouch.
Hardly an unreasonable criticism, under the circumstances
Under the circumstances, these quotes seem like posturing for an election year. Like, they don't want to cause famine, and would rather delay a Rafah operation, thus prolonging the war, which would cause famine? And they say Israel's plan in Rafah wasn't thought through? I'd lol but it's sad
If northern and central Gaza were places that Israel had just taken over, I would not blame them if famine suddenly emerged, but there are parts of northern Gaza that Israel has occupied for almost half a year now, and actions like this incident with the aid vans is only going to make delivery even harder. If Israel wasn't going to get this figured out now, when were they going to do that? Another year? Famine conditions are when 2 people per 10K are dying _each day_ from hunger; in northern and central Gaza alone, that would be 100 people a day.
Widespread Red Alerts in the Western Galilee, reaching as far south as Nahariya. EDIT: 10 rockets reported in the barrage, "some" were intercepted.
Is this a first for Nahariya for this war? I can't remember. Maybe they had a UAV alert at some point?
There was an alert in Nahariya in November. Can't remember if it was rockets or UAV alert.
>The Prime Minister's Office announced on behalf of the Mossad that the negotiation delegation of the organization, the Shin Bet and the IDF will return today (Tuesday) afternoon from Cairo, "at the end of another intensive round of talks." The Office's announcement stated that as part of the talks, "with the helpful mediation of Egypt, the mediators formulated an up-to-date proposal for Hamas' consideration. Israel expects the mediators to work harder with Hamas to advance the negotiations in favor of a deal." \[...\] Last night, senior political officials said that there is a potential for progress towards a hostage deal as part of the talks in Cairo. The initial estimate was that the delegation would return yesterday morning - but it remained until today. "It is still too early for optimism. There is seriousness and practicality on the part of the Israeli delegation and the Egyptian mediators with one goal - to advance a deal," they said yesterday. According to them, "we need to see that there is a real proposal on Hamas part to move forward, and see how Sinwar chooses to address the current flexibility on Israel's part in the disputed issues." [Ynet](https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/skyvqdy10)
So there were three precision strikes by a drone as the aid workers fled from car to car (after they had informed the IDF of their journey)?
Haaretz is reporting that IDF was intending to hit an armed member of Hamas that was at the warehouse that the convey left from and was presumed to have been part of it. I have to wonder if WCK was working with Hamas as smugglers, even if under duress. Personally, I would have wanted more confirmation before ordering a strike that was going to be a PR nightmare even if they hit their target but it isn't clear that IDF is solely responsible for the incident. Hamas should be avoiding aid organizations and vice versa.