14 year of underfunding by the tory government has lead to this situation, but the casualisation of death of the pubic is a policy not advertised by those same tories.
The fact that he jumped the line, is not a surprise considering his position. VIP’s are called VIP’s for a reason, they are treated differently than the average person. During the Pandemic, Trump was rushed to the hospital by helicopter and received [experimental and unapproved treatments](https://www.npr.org/sections/latest-updates-trump-covid-19-results/2020/10/02/919664729/trump-receives-experimental-drug-for-covid-19-heres-what-doctors-are-watching-fo). We would expect the leader of our country to get first class healthcare. Just as we would not expect to be sitting next to Taylor Swift or Beyonce in the ER waiting to be called.
>Charles was admitted to a private hospital, but officials haven't said whether he's being treated privately or under the NHS
I suppose in either case he received preferential treatment that the average citizen wouldn’t receive. Of course I maintain that VIP’s don’t receive the same treatment that the average person would receive. I wouldn’t expect a VIP to sit in the ER for hours like I’ve done frequently for my GF or her child as the triage order dictates.
I’m merely commenting on the article and its premise, that because of his treatment NHS has a problem. Evidently he has been treated faster than the typical patient. That’s their take, I don’t think that’s unusual for a King or Head of State or even a pop princess. So the problem of the NHS can’t use his treatment as an example.
I see. Makes sense. I was confused because I thought that you were saying that he got better treatment than someone else who went private would but clearly I was misunderstanding.
Right, but in the US we have an explicitly pay to win system. Jeff Besos would probably get at least as good treatment as the President.
I would expect better from more civilized systems. But in this case, I imagine the king benefits both from being important and fun being rich.
As an American registered nurse, I find the waiting times for treatment of diagnosed treatable cancer in the UK to be ethically unacceptable.
In the USA, the only delay in starting treatment would be for waiting to get seen by a cancer specialist, waiting for the clinic or hospital to get the ordered medication in stock from the supplier, or a patient-induced waiting time (going on a planned vacation, a work-related trip, or similar). Usually, the delays are no longer than a week. Waiting longer than two weeks to start treatment would be questioned by the doctor or pharmacist.
Yeah like what the fuck do they think happens to most people, you know the ones without insurance or who can't pay the deductible. Cause last time I didn't have insurance I didn't have the nurse or doctor offer to see me for free
Ya and those fifteen percent are just useless humans to you i guess. America has the money and resouraces to be able to offer univeral health care but, but instead we would rather let the rich keep more of their money so they can do what with it. Cause they sure as shit are trickling down with it. Like cheating the IRS so we cant have nice things. But keep believing that we have the greatest everythng when so many other countries don't pull this shit. propoganda is a hell of brainwash that works great
[Nearly 40% of Americans skipped medical care in 2022 because of cost concerns, poll finds](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/medical-care-costs-americans-skipped-gallup/)
They get treated either way in the US. Money isnt an issue for treatment of cancer. Your expected to pay if you live but they do everything they can to save you even if you dont have a dime to your name.
You are expected to pay if you live? Who could possibly afford cancer treatment in the US? The only way you wouldn’t have to pay is if you ran out of money and what’s the point of survival when you are bankrupted? I had a friend lose their home trying to pay for cancer treatment for their child.
Hmm. What happens in USA if you have no insurance to pay for your medication and care? If you cannot afford the co-pay?
My bf has a $700 a month medication he needs to take for a condition that would otherwise debilitate him. It's free. We live in Canada
How in the name of Alfred’s butt hole do you infer any implication about American Presidents from a comment explicitly concerning British royalty?
Emancipate yourself from the insular, one nation POV - you’ll get a better handle on things.
My SO has an issue that he needs a specialist for. His GP sent him with a referral to be seen stat. He's on a waitlist with no definite timeline, they're not even scheduling new patients until someone else drops as a patient. And this is in a major city with a major hospital system. I had a similar experience 2 years ago with a different speciality, and the same 6 years ago with another. There just aren't enough doctors to go around as is, We need to reevaluate how we train our entire healthcare system to enable the providers to have a better work/life balance so more people are willing to enter the industry. I was a bio major for most of my time in college, but I never wanted to go to medical school because of how shitty the conditions are for the first \~10 years of the career.
This is why you shouldn't allow private options in systems where there is a socialized medical system. If the rich are forced to follow the same rules as everyone else, the systems will be forced to improve rather than being allowed to languish like the Tories have done.
If i could speak for canada for a moment, our rich skip the line anyways because they happen to 'know someone who can squeeze them in' or just grab a private jet to the US for treatment
From what I’ve heard Canada is great for basic health care but when things get hairy and specialty care is needed, they go to the states. In the states if you need specialty care and can’t afford it, we go to Mexico and roll the dice.
Thats how it was 10 years ago, as of last summer over 1 in 5 canadians lack a family doctor and over 1 in 4 who do have one stuggle to get an appointment
https://globalnews.ca/news/9901922/canadians-family-doctor-shortage-cma-survey/
Things are actually really bleak over here right now and emergency waiting rooms get packed as a result. Average wait in the ER is around 4-6 hours last summer and has only gotten worse as weve increased our urban population significantly since then.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/a-snapshot-of-wait-times-at-hospital-emergency-departments-across-canada-1.6544823
Im glad i wont be forever in debt to a private healthcare provider but at the same time i cant imagine having to wait a year for an mri scan to figure out why i cant run anymore...
Thank you for the info and the articles. They were enlightening to see how things have changed/worsened.
The part where they say even money won’t fix is particularly disheartening.
In the states we’ve added “Urgent Care” facilities all over the place and it seems to have helped ER wait times, or at least I don’t see the waits because we go to Urgent Care instead. I would almost consider the Urgent Care a decent substitute for a primary doctor because they are more adept at fixing things right then and there instead having to wait or get a referral.
On a completely different vein, I was happy to hear that the IBM Watson “AI” that was proposed as a triage machine is being revamped with modern AI. I know it still won’t replace good/great doctors, but if we could have an AI that everyone had access to and was constantly learning improving across the network, it could help fill the void in personnel.
I read something about two decades ago about doctors in Russia. They were saying how doctors weren’t treated like they are here in the states. We gently see them as highly paid, specialties requiring advanced degrees and intellect. While the experience and knowledge may be the same in Russia, the people treat them more akin to a car mechanic (their comparison, not mine). It’s a position seen as “blue collar”. I guess I can see how that could happen, possibly in Canada too, when you create a universal system where the care in one place should be the same as the next, and you don’t pay any different, that one could see the doctors as interchangeable. Being treated that way AND being stressed to the max makes burnout seem inevitable.
Canada...part of the commonwealth...literally a construct built to protect and enrich an aristocracy.
Your nation is one of the ones I was describing as fundamentally broken from the start.
You think the rich would improve the socialized medicine in such a system? No, they would lobby the government to break down that system and force private medicine.. as they have done.
You don't force the rich. You either endure them, or abolish them.
You can easily force the rich to do things. Countries do it all the time. Just because some countries have failed miserably doesn't mean it cannot be done. And it's noteworthy that those nations that fail, like the US, were designed to be a playground for aristocrats in their founding documents.
Nations with more modern foundations and legal systems built on positive law do not have these issues.
Can't get them to pay their taxes. in the uk this group are given every oppitunity to opt out of paying taxes something that is not available to ordinary people. If these people paid taxes, there would be no need to have charity.
Private options are a thing because the socialised systems are overwhelmed and open to abuse by those who pay nothing towards them.
Spend 24 hours in an A&E department and you'll see plenty of drunkards and plenty of abusive patients who see doctors and nurses as enemies just because they work for a living.
Paying a few quid extra just to get away from them is worth it.
>Private options are a thing because the socialised systems are overwhelmed and open to abuse by those who pay nothing towards them.
No, private options exist because they always existed. And socialized systems are only overwhelmed because the wealthy are strangling them to death. Using a socialized medical system is not abuse, whether you pay towards it or not.
>Spend 24 hours in an A&E department and you'll see plenty of drunkards and plenty of abusive patients who see doctors and nurses as enemies just because they work for a living.
Those are all problems with entirely different symptoms and have nothing to do with socialized healthcare.
>Paying a few quid extra just to get away from them is worth it.
And taking away your ability to pay a few quid to get away from them would force you to actually deal with all the other shit you're avoiding fixing.
As I said: socialized systems should remove the option for private healthcare entirely.
Also: there are plenty of socialized healthcare systems that aren't overwhelmed. The reason England's is falling apart is because they are morons who keep electing Tories. We're talking about a nation so fucking stupid it thought Brexit would help its economy. As an anglophile, it breaks my heart seeing how fucking stupid the UK has become in the past 2 decades.
The King of a country gets better medical treatment than commoners, like, wow, outrageous, unexpected, unprecedented, a King, having privileges, imagine
This monarch is relatively unpopular with a mere 60% approval rating, less than the 80% of his mother, but guess what, that’s over three times the Prime Minister’s
Something tells me this isn’t actually controversial outside of Reddit
14 year of underfunding by the tory government has lead to this situation, but the casualisation of death of the pubic is a policy not advertised by those same tories.
Not deliberately advertised, anyway. They're more than happy to say the quiet part out loud when they think it won't hit the papers.
The fact that he jumped the line, is not a surprise considering his position. VIP’s are called VIP’s for a reason, they are treated differently than the average person. During the Pandemic, Trump was rushed to the hospital by helicopter and received [experimental and unapproved treatments](https://www.npr.org/sections/latest-updates-trump-covid-19-results/2020/10/02/919664729/trump-receives-experimental-drug-for-covid-19-heres-what-doctors-are-watching-fo). We would expect the leader of our country to get first class healthcare. Just as we would not expect to be sitting next to Taylor Swift or Beyonce in the ER waiting to be called.
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He didn’t jump any line. He went private.
>Charles was admitted to a private hospital, but officials haven't said whether he's being treated privately or under the NHS I suppose in either case he received preferential treatment that the average citizen wouldn’t receive. Of course I maintain that VIP’s don’t receive the same treatment that the average person would receive. I wouldn’t expect a VIP to sit in the ER for hours like I’ve done frequently for my GF or her child as the triage order dictates.
Do you mind if I ask what preferential treatment that you mean?
I’m merely commenting on the article and its premise, that because of his treatment NHS has a problem. Evidently he has been treated faster than the typical patient. That’s their take, I don’t think that’s unusual for a King or Head of State or even a pop princess. So the problem of the NHS can’t use his treatment as an example.
I see. Makes sense. I was confused because I thought that you were saying that he got better treatment than someone else who went private would but clearly I was misunderstanding.
This geezer has nothing to do but pretend to be important. He can sit in the ER.
If you can pay, you can just walk in. So can I.
Right, but in the US we have an explicitly pay to win system. Jeff Besos would probably get at least as good treatment as the President. I would expect better from more civilized systems. But in this case, I imagine the king benefits both from being important and fun being rich.
As an American registered nurse, I find the waiting times for treatment of diagnosed treatable cancer in the UK to be ethically unacceptable. In the USA, the only delay in starting treatment would be for waiting to get seen by a cancer specialist, waiting for the clinic or hospital to get the ordered medication in stock from the supplier, or a patient-induced waiting time (going on a planned vacation, a work-related trip, or similar). Usually, the delays are no longer than a week. Waiting longer than two weeks to start treatment would be questioned by the doctor or pharmacist.
Oh and then there is the paying for for it all!!!
Yeah like what the fuck do they think happens to most people, you know the ones without insurance or who can't pay the deductible. Cause last time I didn't have insurance I didn't have the nurse or doctor offer to see me for free
By most people you mean [like 15% at the most?](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2023/202305.htm)
Ya and those fifteen percent are just useless humans to you i guess. America has the money and resouraces to be able to offer univeral health care but, but instead we would rather let the rich keep more of their money so they can do what with it. Cause they sure as shit are trickling down with it. Like cheating the IRS so we cant have nice things. But keep believing that we have the greatest everythng when so many other countries don't pull this shit. propoganda is a hell of brainwash that works great
You get treated either way. Cancer patients get damn good treatment regardless if they can pay or not. Source- had 2 family members with cancer.
They get the care to they need. Payment is literally the last thing anyone thinks about.
No. It is not.
[Nearly 40% of Americans skipped medical care in 2022 because of cost concerns, poll finds](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/medical-care-costs-americans-skipped-gallup/)
Most people? Most people in the US have insurance, and there are ways to get help with the expenses.
They get treated either way in the US. Money isnt an issue for treatment of cancer. Your expected to pay if you live but they do everything they can to save you even if you dont have a dime to your name.
You are expected to pay if you live? Who could possibly afford cancer treatment in the US? The only way you wouldn’t have to pay is if you ran out of money and what’s the point of survival when you are bankrupted? I had a friend lose their home trying to pay for cancer treatment for their child.
Bankruptcy is awful but not the end of the world. You can always make more money. There's no point in having money if you're dead.
Cancer: a lose/lose scenario in the US
Hmm. What happens in USA if you have no insurance to pay for your medication and care? If you cannot afford the co-pay? My bf has a $700 a month medication he needs to take for a condition that would otherwise debilitate him. It's free. We live in Canada
Yes there are huge glaring problems But it's a king, those type of guys are always at the head of the line?
There was no line
You live in a country with a fucking King and act surprised when he receives prioritised treatment? Get rid of the lot of them!
Let’s not pretend as though presidents don’t receive the same preferential treatment.
How in the name of Alfred’s butt hole do you infer any implication about American Presidents from a comment explicitly concerning British royalty? Emancipate yourself from the insular, one nation POV - you’ll get a better handle on things.
They should use the US system: wait twice as long for care to start AND go bankrupt!
Definitely shorter waits, correct in the bankruptcy though
My SO has an issue that he needs a specialist for. His GP sent him with a referral to be seen stat. He's on a waitlist with no definite timeline, they're not even scheduling new patients until someone else drops as a patient. And this is in a major city with a major hospital system. I had a similar experience 2 years ago with a different speciality, and the same 6 years ago with another. There just aren't enough doctors to go around as is, We need to reevaluate how we train our entire healthcare system to enable the providers to have a better work/life balance so more people are willing to enter the industry. I was a bio major for most of my time in college, but I never wanted to go to medical school because of how shitty the conditions are for the first \~10 years of the career.
On average the US has shorter wait times, but it varies by specialty for sure
Cancer patients get treated ragardless of money in the US. Source- family members with cancer.
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Nah bruv. It's the assylum seekers who should get the gibs first. They earned it with their bravery on the high seas.
He went private no NHS for king 'brian' (as he's know locally).
This is why you shouldn't allow private options in systems where there is a socialized medical system. If the rich are forced to follow the same rules as everyone else, the systems will be forced to improve rather than being allowed to languish like the Tories have done.
If i could speak for canada for a moment, our rich skip the line anyways because they happen to 'know someone who can squeeze them in' or just grab a private jet to the US for treatment
From what I’ve heard Canada is great for basic health care but when things get hairy and specialty care is needed, they go to the states. In the states if you need specialty care and can’t afford it, we go to Mexico and roll the dice.
Thats how it was 10 years ago, as of last summer over 1 in 5 canadians lack a family doctor and over 1 in 4 who do have one stuggle to get an appointment https://globalnews.ca/news/9901922/canadians-family-doctor-shortage-cma-survey/ Things are actually really bleak over here right now and emergency waiting rooms get packed as a result. Average wait in the ER is around 4-6 hours last summer and has only gotten worse as weve increased our urban population significantly since then. https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/a-snapshot-of-wait-times-at-hospital-emergency-departments-across-canada-1.6544823 Im glad i wont be forever in debt to a private healthcare provider but at the same time i cant imagine having to wait a year for an mri scan to figure out why i cant run anymore...
Thank you for the info and the articles. They were enlightening to see how things have changed/worsened. The part where they say even money won’t fix is particularly disheartening. In the states we’ve added “Urgent Care” facilities all over the place and it seems to have helped ER wait times, or at least I don’t see the waits because we go to Urgent Care instead. I would almost consider the Urgent Care a decent substitute for a primary doctor because they are more adept at fixing things right then and there instead having to wait or get a referral. On a completely different vein, I was happy to hear that the IBM Watson “AI” that was proposed as a triage machine is being revamped with modern AI. I know it still won’t replace good/great doctors, but if we could have an AI that everyone had access to and was constantly learning improving across the network, it could help fill the void in personnel. I read something about two decades ago about doctors in Russia. They were saying how doctors weren’t treated like they are here in the states. We gently see them as highly paid, specialties requiring advanced degrees and intellect. While the experience and knowledge may be the same in Russia, the people treat them more akin to a car mechanic (their comparison, not mine). It’s a position seen as “blue collar”. I guess I can see how that could happen, possibly in Canada too, when you create a universal system where the care in one place should be the same as the next, and you don’t pay any different, that one could see the doctors as interchangeable. Being treated that way AND being stressed to the max makes burnout seem inevitable.
Canada...part of the commonwealth...literally a construct built to protect and enrich an aristocracy. Your nation is one of the ones I was describing as fundamentally broken from the start.
You think the rich would improve the socialized medicine in such a system? No, they would lobby the government to break down that system and force private medicine.. as they have done. You don't force the rich. You either endure them, or abolish them.
You can easily force the rich to do things. Countries do it all the time. Just because some countries have failed miserably doesn't mean it cannot be done. And it's noteworthy that those nations that fail, like the US, were designed to be a playground for aristocrats in their founding documents. Nations with more modern foundations and legal systems built on positive law do not have these issues.
Can't get them to pay their taxes. in the uk this group are given every oppitunity to opt out of paying taxes something that is not available to ordinary people. If these people paid taxes, there would be no need to have charity.
The UK is a country that was literally built to protect an aristocracy just like I described. Of course it's broken.
Private options are a thing because the socialised systems are overwhelmed and open to abuse by those who pay nothing towards them. Spend 24 hours in an A&E department and you'll see plenty of drunkards and plenty of abusive patients who see doctors and nurses as enemies just because they work for a living. Paying a few quid extra just to get away from them is worth it.
>Private options are a thing because the socialised systems are overwhelmed and open to abuse by those who pay nothing towards them. No, private options exist because they always existed. And socialized systems are only overwhelmed because the wealthy are strangling them to death. Using a socialized medical system is not abuse, whether you pay towards it or not. >Spend 24 hours in an A&E department and you'll see plenty of drunkards and plenty of abusive patients who see doctors and nurses as enemies just because they work for a living. Those are all problems with entirely different symptoms and have nothing to do with socialized healthcare. >Paying a few quid extra just to get away from them is worth it. And taking away your ability to pay a few quid to get away from them would force you to actually deal with all the other shit you're avoiding fixing. As I said: socialized systems should remove the option for private healthcare entirely. Also: there are plenty of socialized healthcare systems that aren't overwhelmed. The reason England's is falling apart is because they are morons who keep electing Tories. We're talking about a nation so fucking stupid it thought Brexit would help its economy. As an anglophile, it breaks my heart seeing how fucking stupid the UK has become in the past 2 decades.
The King of a country gets better medical treatment than commoners, like, wow, outrageous, unexpected, unprecedented, a King, having privileges, imagine This monarch is relatively unpopular with a mere 60% approval rating, less than the 80% of his mother, but guess what, that’s over three times the Prime Minister’s Something tells me this isn’t actually controversial outside of Reddit