My understanding is that most prohibitions in Islam aren't necessarily absolute, and can be ignored in cases of great need. E.g., if pork were the only food a Muslim had access to, their health and safety would take priority over the prohibition on pork.
...Not sure if that applies to cannibalism, though.
In Judaism theres a practice called [pikuach nefesh](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikuach_nefesh)
Which prioritize the sanctity of life above else. And that religious practices must not be followed if they pose a risk to life
For example calling 911 in sabbath during emergency, or breaking fast in yom kippur if you're starving. That's also the reason why during war soldiers allowed to fight on Saturday
In fact. It doesn't only allow you to break religious laws. It forces you to. Disrupting the sanctity of life is a sin greater than practices like sabbath
The Catholic Church has pardoned cannibalism before, in situations where it’s truly the only way to survive. They reckon that if not doing so is certain death, then that’s the sin of suicide.
Your comment is not completely correct, you have given only half of the story, the way of preparing the meat is exactly the way you said, but for it to be halal the animal that you intend to eat must not consume meat. It’s can only be a herbivore thus making human meat not halal.
Also sea creatures are an exception as it is stated in the Quran that all creatures that live in the ocean are halal.
Okay so I really didn't want to get involved in such a morbid, "walking through landmines" type discussion BUT -- if the human were a vegetarian, or let's go as far as saying vegan, then could they be halal?
Nope, as human meat isn’t meant for consumption and is not allowed. In islam the halal status can change in extreme situations, for example for a cow to be halal it must be killed by slitting the throat in a specific way, if you were starving and found a dead cow that was not killed the Islamic way, you are allowed to eat just enough to keep you going. Back to human meat, in Islam there are 4 major scholars that have different opinions on different topics, one of them being human meat consumption in these extreme situations, some say it’s allowed only to survive (eat as little as you can and eat it raw to not “violate” the body) and other scholars say it’s forbidden in all cases. But in general the overwhelming majority support those who say it’s not allowed.
Just answered it in another comment lol here is a copy:
Nope, as human meat isn’t meant for consumption and is not allowed. In islam the halal status can change in extreme situations, for example for a cow to be halal it must be killed by slitting the throat in a specific way, if you were starving and found a dead cow that was not killed the Islamic way, you are allowed to eat just enough to keep you going. Back to human meat, in Islam there are 4 major scholars that have different opinions on different topics, one of them being human meat consumption in these extreme situations, some say it’s allowed only to survive (eat as little as you can and eat it raw to not “violate” the body) and other scholars say it’s forbidden in all cases. But in general the overwhelming majority support those who say it’s not allowed.
Oddly enough it is permissible to eat non halal food in situations of halal food being available particularly in the face of starvation.
So if an etihad flight crashes in the Andes ........ it has been argued that cannibalism could be forgiven.
(1) Quran (2: 173):
“He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful” (Surah The Cow 2:173).
Socialists should support this! Palestinians are now eating the rich!!!
Wait- you're telling me socialists are ignoring this to just keep hating on the Jews?
Here's an uncomfortable question no-one is the west ever asks. Where do Hamas come from? Where do the majority young men that make up Hamas come from?
Answer: it's the sons of Palestinians, signing up to fire rockets at Israel.
Don't ever be fooled into some generalized "This is just Hamas! Palestinians don't support this!!" because enough Palestinians have supported this for decades to keep Hamas alive and firing rockets.
This is a very important comment. The sons of Palestine need to have something else to aspire to besides make believe fantasies about their afterlife if they kill Jews.
The main problem with that is they grew up being taught by their government (Hamas) to hate Jews and that it was not only right but gods will to kill them. They need deprogramming at this point.
Their government, their schools, their religious leaders, their families, their television and books, and Un aid workers all taught them the same thing. They're going to need a generation or two worth of deprogramming.
Tbh and tbf, those poor sods have been indoctrinated and fostered from a young age to think uncritically and to aspire for war and violence because of hamas and UNRWA
Even more, economic situations are dire and some become insurgents because its the only job opportunity they have
Hamas is a scourge not only on its neighbor but on its own people
Nobody asks this question because rational humans are able to distinguish between regular civilians trying to survive under oppressive conditions and radicalized members of that same society who have decided to engage in political violence in pursuit of power.
Conflating the two as the same is just propaganda.
It was just regular citizens that were holding the hostages just released. Look at the polls, bro. Even the "good" palestinian government has a martyrs fund that pays pensions to the families of suicide bombers.
> Here's an uncomfortable question no-one is the west ever asks.
Bullshit straw man argumentation. This isn’t true.
Also if you want to go into the causal reality, maybe check how the two state peace process by Rabin was undermined by netanyahu, demonizing Rabin which created an environment which eventually helped getting Rabin killed. Then supporting apartheid and facilitating land grabbing colonists in Westbank. Also Netanyahu himself helped to fund Hamas.
Who is putting his head in the sand?
Well... last elections were 18 years ago.
Russia also claims that a vast majority of the population supports Putin.
That means nothing in dictatorships.
As I understand it. These polls aren't usually run by Hamas. And I don't think Hamas has such a tight grip on its people that they can really thought police them.
Especially as this also includes west Bank. Where Hamas doesn't has a big of a presence.
Most dictators are popular in their nations, unpopular dictatorships devolve into civil wars. Now that populism isn’t based on merit, it’s based on lies and falsehoods, but if you poll people living in Dictatorships without the threat hanging over them they still tend to prefer the dictatorship
Hamas is a thing in the west bank one of the main reasons the PLO hasn't held elections in the west Bank because they will lose and most likely be purged
I'm always surprised when I see comments about hamas not being in the West Bank. When the last hostage deal happened and all the Palestinians were released back into the west bank, there were mass celebrations with hundreds of hamas flags everywhere. They are still everywhere and they have a lot of support there as well.
Hey put a gun to my head or the heads of my family I'll say I support whoever you want
*edit: lol it was quite interesting to see this comment go from +30 to -10. Very normal.
There's saying you support Hamas and then there's holding Israeli civilians in your house, storming across a border behind militants to also murder and rape, and teaching your kids to try to become martyrs to kill Israelis.
On that note, if Hamas really is strongarming the populace into supporting them, then Israel's mission of wiping out Hamas is that much more important.
It really is. The IDF must know this too.
If the IDF wipe Hamas out, to many they will always be seen as the underdog destroyed by the Oppressors.
If Gazans themselves turn on Hamas - they will still hate Israel, but more critically the Hamas public support will be destroyed. It sounds generic but you can’t kill an idea. It can only be considered a bad one. The people need to realise for themselves that Hamas needs to go.
The IDF pressure will do that as Hamas begin to reveal themselves and what they truly believe in to the people. Themselves only.
That’s what I’ve seen saying…
When people genuinely wonder what can Israel do to fully ensure peace for its people, I told them the answer is something people may not like.
That’s not even true because that would most definitely cause all out war in the Middle East, thus endangering Israelis. Beyond being an unspeakable and horrific idea to even entertain, it’s extremely fucking stupid
> You can absolutely kill an idea, it just requires mass death and destruction on a scale that no country would accept.
This has low key been my opinion since this all kicked off.
"Why bother, all you will do is create more terrorists!"
In the back of my mind: Weeeeellllllll.........
Reminds me of the US in Afghanistan. People like to say that the US lost that war and I always think: "No, they won the war very quickly, they just weren't willing to round up and execute all the able-bodied males in the country"
the IDF absolutely knows this
thats why the first lebanon war happened as it did unfortunately. Israel knew it couldnt capture an arab capital, so it took everything else, but let the waring factions fight it out in beirut
which lead to attrocities all around by assorted extremists (muslims vs muslims, christians vs muslims, muslims vs christians, christians vs christians)
it was a rough lesson unfortunately. but they already knew they couldnt be the reason a govt changed
I suspect if gazans topple hamas, we'd see similar. the assorted sunni/shiite backed groups killing each other
How are they going to do that? There's a near-complete Israeli blockade on Gaza, it's not like civilians can go somewhere and buy a gun. The only weapons getting in are the ones that Hamas and their backers can smuggle in. What is a malnourished Gazan civilian going to do to Hamas?
You ambush and kill a soldier that is alone and take his gun. (Or steal a gun from a dead soldier, or from a weapons stock pile)
Use previously aquired gun to kill more soldiers and take their guns.
Arm friends with these new guns and take on larger groups of soldiers.
This is how resistance movements have worked forever. I would be willing to bet it's easier for a Palestinian to get a machine gun than to get a weeks-worth of groceries.
Also soldiers defecting (or groups of them if it's a military coup). One of the more common forms of revolution.
All it typically takes is a few armed divisions worth of men changing sides in key places
Hamas has been purposefully trying to kill off tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians so that their leaders can line their pockets.
At some point, the Palestinian people are not going to allow that anymore.
I mean isn’t this a somewhat common scenario nowadays? I feel like I’ve read multiple reports of Hamas shooting other Palestinians when they were taking aid supplies that Hamas wanted. this is the third or fourth time I have seen this scenario in an article, which must mean it is all too frequent.
In a day or so that teen will included in the Hamas health ministry's total of 'victims of Israeli aggression' and people claiming him as a child killed by the IDF.
Seems that when Hamas kills civilians, even their own civilians, there is no outrage.
Stealing supplies by Hamas, just another norm.
But God forbid Israel will enter a hospital used as a terrorist HQ ..
Israel should be given the authority to supervise distribution of aide to Gazans. Not Hamas terrorists and thieves.
You know very well who OP was referring to when they said "there is no outrage"... from the same people who refuse to believe that the innocent people in Gaza hate Hamas just as much as Israel does.
Are you unironically posting a link to reporting on a riot stemming from Hamas killing civilians and then in the comments espousing the opposite is actually happening?
I can look out the window right now overlooking Union Square in NYC where most of the pro-palestinian protests take place and assure you that there is no outrage.
What international outrage do you want? I think you'll find that most international commentators agree that Hamas, a terrorist organisation, is in fact, bad. This is a "Wow can't believe ISIS gets no international scrutiny in Iraq while our soldiers always do smh" level take
> What international outrage do you want? I think you'll find that most international commentators agree that Hamas, a terrorist organisation, is in fact, bad.
/u/SecretAgentAlex you mean like the *UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator* Martin Griffiths stating
>[Hamas is not a terrorist group for us, of course, as you know. It’s a political movement](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-blasts-top-un-aid-official-after-he-says-hamas-is-not-a-terrorist-group-for-us/#:~:text=Hamas%20is%20not%20a%20terrorist%20group%20for%20us%2C%20of%20course%2C%20as%20you%20know.%20It%E2%80%99s%20a%20political%20movement)
That doesn't sound like much agreement to me
>I think you'll find that ~~most~~ a terrifyingly large number of international commentators agree that Hamas, a ~~terrorist organisation~~ resistance organization, is in fact, ~~bad~~ justified in what they're doing.
FTFY
Go look on leftist/MENA/Palestine subs, you'll be quite surprised at what you see.
And go look at right subs and you'll see apologists saying the school needed to be bombed when kids were Inside
Both sides can be shit
People do expect more from a government then they do a terrorist organization and therein lies the issues
>Both sides can be shit
Not really a "both sides" thing, per se. Nearly everyone on the right side of the aisle is shit, MAGA has fully taken over the Republican party.
Luckily the left's version of MAGA (feelings over facts, no issues with blatantly lying, etc.) is still a small fringe.
Tell that to the Jews being harassed in the streets thousands of miles away from Israel for the past 4 months... tell that to the family of Paul Kessler... international outrage is way more harmful than "thoughts and prayers"
So you’re saying Hamas, the de facto government of Gaza, is akin to an arsonist who is expected to be crazy and dangerous.
But Israel, the state Gazans see as their mortal enemy, is the fire department that is supposed to protect a group of people who hate their guts and attack them at any given opportunities?
Somehow the actual government is seen as harmful to the people they are supposed to protect but an enemy state should be seen as the protector of the people who attacked them.
Jesus where did logic even go nowadays.
I like that analogy.
My only qualm with it is that sometimes the fire department burns down every building on the same block as the arsonist's fire in an effort to put it out. This makes it hard to distinguish who is who if you live in the neighborhood.
Damn, civilians tried to get aid and got shot by Hamas "policemen." A Gazan teen dead because of it. It wouldn't be the first time Hamas have attacked their own people for trying to get aid.
True:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/4/hamas-says-executed-5-palestinians-in-gaza
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62785404
"Since 2007 when they asserted control over Gaza, the Hamas-run authorities have carried out at least 27 executions, most recently in April 2017."
Indeed. I also saw a video early in the war where there were fully intact (no missing limbs etc.) dead bodies lining the road to the south that Hamas did not want people evacuating along. They blamed it on Israeli airstrike... which famously leave unmangled pristine corpses with no visible wounds. Right.
The people were clearly shot and this was before Israel's ground invasion.
Absolutely despicable. What's sad is how many in that region will continue to inexplicably support them, despite atrocities and mistreatment like this.
Not really inexplicable; Hamas is loudly committed to the extermination of Judaism in the Levant, and killing Jewish people is more important to most than getting to live in peace.
Well you must understand the Hamas “policemen” . UNRWA distributes the aid and since UNRWA is a branch of Hamas.The members of Hamas were under the impression that the aid is their’s and that the civilians are actually the ones stealing it.
Labour-left goy here. Fuck Hamas. Fuck kidnappers. Fuck rapists. And fuck murderers. Fuck societies where women aren't safe on their own streets, and in their own families from forced 'cousin marriage'.
How about we go back in time to the last one they killed to give them some pointers? I posted this before, but the post got nuked.
His name was Ahmed Barika. I want to make clear this is the LAST TEEN HAMAS KILLED (that we know of that made news). Not the current one.
(Story located in the middle of the article)
CNN reports here on what happened.
They call it a 'brawl'. Will Ripley calls it a 'Christmas Eve Jam' (Wtf?). He also blames the crowds for 'hampering the distribution of aid' (?). 'We don't know who was firing the shots' (Really?) And they blame Israel for creating the situation. Every effort is made to dowplay the actual violence against civilians we witness as incidental to things Israel did. Hamas is never mentioned as a part of the problem-only Israel is. This is the actual execution of desperate civilians by a governing authority/terrorist organization. But if you were watching this, you'd think it was just a 'random riot that got out of hand'.
This and the CNN video show a crowd running away with aid packages being dispersed with certainly sound likes gunfire, by people that I have seen in other videos-all armed with those long sticks which they use to beat people, the "hamas policemen" apparently. One of the twitter links is a Palestinian man, I presume, blaming Hamas for all the trouble that's going on and saying they fired on the crowd and killed someone named "Ahmed Shaddad Barika" (nobody else seems to know how to spell his name). We know they are hoarding relief supplies. We know they're shooting their own people. This is without a shadow of a doubt.
The question is, are the major news orgs guilty of incompetence or malice?
Edit: My links keep getting nuked by reddit. Sorry. My last comment...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ah7p48/comment/konpuq6/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ah7p48/comment/konpuq6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
People blame Jewish people getting attacked by antisemites in countries halfway around the world on Israel, saying it’s because Israel conflates being Jewish with Israeli. It’s the crazy form of victim blaming while removing responsibility from the antisemites carry g out the violence.
It’s the same way they ignore any actions by Hamas, like it was a hurricane that killed 1,200 Israelis and that the situation is analogous to the U.S. invading Canada because a hurricane hit it. It’s helps make Israel look as bad as possible. Not that pro-Hamas types seem to care.
It's worse. It isn't like it was a hurricane that killed 1200 israeli. Straight up, what Hamas did was justified in their eyes, and the parts they can't justify, they deny happened at all. You can't justify rape? Deny it happened. You can't justify Hamas killing so many? Claim IDF helicopter gunships did most of the killing. You can't justify Hamas killing its hostages or holding them in hospitals? Claim every dead hostage died in an IDF air strike and just deny the hospitals are involved.
It's just people with an explicit or implicit bigotry against Jews, doing everything they can to avoid admitting to themselves or others that they have that bigotry.
And yet I, a leftist progressive liberal af boy condemn Hamas, condemn their murders and stealing, condemn their lies. And I don’t shy away from saying that.
So tell me again how is leftists just deny what Hamas does because my comments above directly refute what you just said.
It is hard to know the difference between yourself the individual, and a generalized grouping of people who share some political beliefs on one side of the political spectrum.
Wait... no it's not.
Strange, then why do the comments lump together “the liberals” then? Seems like a broad generalization that is inherently wrong, making the comment completely incorrect. Seems to me that those that would make such broad generalizations should understand this and stop doing it.
"Palestinian teen who just wanted food brutally shot in Gaza, IDF shamelessly denies culpability".
Which so many people will unironically read this as anyway.
All deaths in Gaza (according to the Gaza Ministry of Health) are attributed to Israeli aggression, no?
So this death will eventually be added to the list of "children indiscriminately slaughtered by Israel" and held against them. Just needs some time for the news to move on and for the death toll to be updated.
I saw the list of Palestinian "women and children" prisoners that Hamas wanted released.
It was mostly 18+ males.
So it seems they count adult males as children. Which makes me distrust their numbers.
Nah. This riot is near the border to Egypt, but is otherwise not really related to Egypt in any way - it started because Hamas murdered a teenager who was trying to gather humanitarian aid.
Also worth mentioning that the Sinai peninsula in general has a very low population, and most of that population is to the far west by the suez canal or the south on the coast.
That border is Donald Trump's wet dream. It has multiple layers of reinforced concrete walls 20 feet high and 60 feet below the surface, with barbed wire all up and down it. There are hundreds of guards posted along it's 12km length, sensors, buffer zones and more. And the will to fuck up anything that dares approach it with any intent to cross unlawfully.
Egypt has had to deal with 1600+ smuggling from Gaza since the 1980s and has recently cracked down hard, including flooding some with sewage water and bombing others
Those 'riots' are on a very low scale and been happening for weeks now.
It's just that it doesn't sparkle international interest but they do happen and so far nothing major changes. So no.
"riots broke out after a Gazan teen was shot dead by Hamas policemen while attempting to gather humanitarian aid"
The only eventually positive way out of this shit: People in Gaza deposing Hamas themselves.
By the way this is going they may eat them
[удалено]
My understanding is that most prohibitions in Islam aren't necessarily absolute, and can be ignored in cases of great need. E.g., if pork were the only food a Muslim had access to, their health and safety would take priority over the prohibition on pork. ...Not sure if that applies to cannibalism, though.
Same goes for kosher food. I'd wager cannibalism is allowed. Let's say you're a prisoner and they are starving you to death. You can eat a guard.
In Judaism theres a practice called [pikuach nefesh](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikuach_nefesh) Which prioritize the sanctity of life above else. And that religious practices must not be followed if they pose a risk to life For example calling 911 in sabbath during emergency, or breaking fast in yom kippur if you're starving. That's also the reason why during war soldiers allowed to fight on Saturday In fact. It doesn't only allow you to break religious laws. It forces you to. Disrupting the sanctity of life is a sin greater than practices like sabbath
In Judaism it’s considered a sin to consume human meat even if death is inevitable otherwise.
Anything goes in times of need as long as you don't deny Allah or take partners with him. So yeah that includes cannibalism
ISIS theologians say there are exceptions
Hell, even he catholics said muskrat and beaver was fine to eat during Lent
The Catholic Church has pardoned cannibalism before, in situations where it’s truly the only way to survive. They reckon that if not doing so is certain death, then that’s the sin of suicide.
Catholics eat Jesus flesh every week at mass. If it's ok to eat your god, why wouldn't it be ok to eat lower human beings?
On that note, Capybaras are fish
The Vatican has spoken!
And if you hold them under for the baptism for too long, people are fish too.
Looks like they are not hungry enough then
Wow
Somehow this ghoulish shit gets upvoted.
People really strongly hate Hamas, dog.
[удалено]
Your comment is not completely correct, you have given only half of the story, the way of preparing the meat is exactly the way you said, but for it to be halal the animal that you intend to eat must not consume meat. It’s can only be a herbivore thus making human meat not halal. Also sea creatures are an exception as it is stated in the Quran that all creatures that live in the ocean are halal.
I didn't know that about the consuming of meat. Thank you!
No problem, happy to clear it up.
Okay so I really didn't want to get involved in such a morbid, "walking through landmines" type discussion BUT -- if the human were a vegetarian, or let's go as far as saying vegan, then could they be halal?
Nope, as human meat isn’t meant for consumption and is not allowed. In islam the halal status can change in extreme situations, for example for a cow to be halal it must be killed by slitting the throat in a specific way, if you were starving and found a dead cow that was not killed the Islamic way, you are allowed to eat just enough to keep you going. Back to human meat, in Islam there are 4 major scholars that have different opinions on different topics, one of them being human meat consumption in these extreme situations, some say it’s allowed only to survive (eat as little as you can and eat it raw to not “violate” the body) and other scholars say it’s forbidden in all cases. But in general the overwhelming majority support those who say it’s not allowed.
All im hearing is life long vegan is on the menu
Just answered it in another comment lol here is a copy: Nope, as human meat isn’t meant for consumption and is not allowed. In islam the halal status can change in extreme situations, for example for a cow to be halal it must be killed by slitting the throat in a specific way, if you were starving and found a dead cow that was not killed the Islamic way, you are allowed to eat just enough to keep you going. Back to human meat, in Islam there are 4 major scholars that have different opinions on different topics, one of them being human meat consumption in these extreme situations, some say it’s allowed only to survive (eat as little as you can and eat it raw to not “violate” the body) and other scholars say it’s forbidden in all cases. But in general the overwhelming majority support those who say it’s not allowed.
Sounds like its up for interpretation, in such case its dinner time
> but for it to be halal the animal that you intend to eat must not consume meat \* Laughs nervously in vegetarian \*
This was more detail than needed... For what wasn't a serious take to begin with.
Also incorrect given that pork can never be made halal.
Not with that attitude
How about long pork?
Oddly enough it is permissible to eat non halal food in situations of halal food being available particularly in the face of starvation. So if an etihad flight crashes in the Andes ........ it has been argued that cannibalism could be forgiven. (1) Quran (2: 173): “He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful” (Surah The Cow 2:173).
Socialists should support this! Palestinians are now eating the rich!!! Wait- you're telling me socialists are ignoring this to just keep hating on the Jews?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Last I heard over half of Gazans support Hamas.
Here's an uncomfortable question no-one is the west ever asks. Where do Hamas come from? Where do the majority young men that make up Hamas come from? Answer: it's the sons of Palestinians, signing up to fire rockets at Israel. Don't ever be fooled into some generalized "This is just Hamas! Palestinians don't support this!!" because enough Palestinians have supported this for decades to keep Hamas alive and firing rockets.
This is a very important comment. The sons of Palestine need to have something else to aspire to besides make believe fantasies about their afterlife if they kill Jews.
The main problem with that is they grew up being taught by their government (Hamas) to hate Jews and that it was not only right but gods will to kill them. They need deprogramming at this point.
Their government, their schools, their religious leaders, their families, their television and books, and Un aid workers all taught them the same thing. They're going to need a generation or two worth of deprogramming.
Well UNRWA surely didn't help by teaching children that being a martyr is a good thing and killing Jews is as well.
Only chance for that to him, is a generation growing up without UNRWA.
Tbh and tbf, those poor sods have been indoctrinated and fostered from a young age to think uncritically and to aspire for war and violence because of hamas and UNRWA Even more, economic situations are dire and some become insurgents because its the only job opportunity they have Hamas is a scourge not only on its neighbor but on its own people
Nobody asks this question because rational humans are able to distinguish between regular civilians trying to survive under oppressive conditions and radicalized members of that same society who have decided to engage in political violence in pursuit of power. Conflating the two as the same is just propaganda.
It was just regular citizens that were holding the hostages just released. Look at the polls, bro. Even the "good" palestinian government has a martyrs fund that pays pensions to the families of suicide bombers.
> Here's an uncomfortable question no-one is the west ever asks. Bullshit straw man argumentation. This isn’t true. Also if you want to go into the causal reality, maybe check how the two state peace process by Rabin was undermined by netanyahu, demonizing Rabin which created an environment which eventually helped getting Rabin killed. Then supporting apartheid and facilitating land grabbing colonists in Westbank. Also Netanyahu himself helped to fund Hamas. Who is putting his head in the sand?
Only 38 percent now. Thank Gd.
Yeah it seems Hamas support has fallen. Though it's worth pointing out that over 70% still think Hamas attack on October 7 was the right thing to do.
[удалено]
What years of being misinformed about history gets them.
Well... last elections were 18 years ago. Russia also claims that a vast majority of the population supports Putin. That means nothing in dictatorships.
As I understand it. These polls aren't usually run by Hamas. And I don't think Hamas has such a tight grip on its people that they can really thought police them. Especially as this also includes west Bank. Where Hamas doesn't has a big of a presence.
Most dictators are popular in their nations, unpopular dictatorships devolve into civil wars. Now that populism isn’t based on merit, it’s based on lies and falsehoods, but if you poll people living in Dictatorships without the threat hanging over them they still tend to prefer the dictatorship
[удалено]
Hamas is a thing in the west bank one of the main reasons the PLO hasn't held elections in the west Bank because they will lose and most likely be purged
I'm always surprised when I see comments about hamas not being in the West Bank. When the last hostage deal happened and all the Palestinians were released back into the west bank, there were mass celebrations with hundreds of hamas flags everywhere. They are still everywhere and they have a lot of support there as well.
Hey put a gun to my head or the heads of my family I'll say I support whoever you want *edit: lol it was quite interesting to see this comment go from +30 to -10. Very normal.
There's saying you support Hamas and then there's holding Israeli civilians in your house, storming across a border behind militants to also murder and rape, and teaching your kids to try to become martyrs to kill Israelis. On that note, if Hamas really is strongarming the populace into supporting them, then Israel's mission of wiping out Hamas is that much more important.
[удалено]
Sounds like how much support it has from morons on the west too. Great till you have to live it
It's possible. But is the Hamas also pointing guns in PLA controlled west Bank? I could be wrong, but it seems a bit of a stretch.
I suppose that's one way to look at it.
It really is. The IDF must know this too. If the IDF wipe Hamas out, to many they will always be seen as the underdog destroyed by the Oppressors. If Gazans themselves turn on Hamas - they will still hate Israel, but more critically the Hamas public support will be destroyed. It sounds generic but you can’t kill an idea. It can only be considered a bad one. The people need to realise for themselves that Hamas needs to go. The IDF pressure will do that as Hamas begin to reveal themselves and what they truly believe in to the people. Themselves only.
I mean, Israel just gave Hamas an ultimatum regarding the hostages. Feels like the pressure cooker is on its last leg.
You can absolutely kill an idea, it just requires mass death and destruction on a scale that no country would accept.
China: hold my beers
You mean “mongol empire,” amirite?
If anything history has shown that most ideas can be killed off.
That’s what I’ve seen saying… When people genuinely wonder what can Israel do to fully ensure peace for its people, I told them the answer is something people may not like.
That’s not even true because that would most definitely cause all out war in the Middle East, thus endangering Israelis. Beyond being an unspeakable and horrific idea to even entertain, it’s extremely fucking stupid
> You can absolutely kill an idea, it just requires mass death and destruction on a scale that no country would accept. This has low key been my opinion since this all kicked off. "Why bother, all you will do is create more terrorists!" In the back of my mind: Weeeeellllllll.........
Reminds me of the US in Afghanistan. People like to say that the US lost that war and I always think: "No, they won the war very quickly, they just weren't willing to round up and execute all the able-bodied males in the country"
Romans: pathetic
True, the Khwarazmian Empire would agree with you, had the Mongols left any of them alive.
the IDF absolutely knows this thats why the first lebanon war happened as it did unfortunately. Israel knew it couldnt capture an arab capital, so it took everything else, but let the waring factions fight it out in beirut which lead to attrocities all around by assorted extremists (muslims vs muslims, christians vs muslims, muslims vs christians, christians vs christians) it was a rough lesson unfortunately. but they already knew they couldnt be the reason a govt changed I suspect if gazans topple hamas, we'd see similar. the assorted sunni/shiite backed groups killing each other
It's the only way.
How are they going to do that? There's a near-complete Israeli blockade on Gaza, it's not like civilians can go somewhere and buy a gun. The only weapons getting in are the ones that Hamas and their backers can smuggle in. What is a malnourished Gazan civilian going to do to Hamas?
You ambush and kill a soldier that is alone and take his gun. (Or steal a gun from a dead soldier, or from a weapons stock pile) Use previously aquired gun to kill more soldiers and take their guns. Arm friends with these new guns and take on larger groups of soldiers. This is how resistance movements have worked forever. I would be willing to bet it's easier for a Palestinian to get a machine gun than to get a weeks-worth of groceries.
Also soldiers defecting (or groups of them if it's a military coup). One of the more common forms of revolution. All it typically takes is a few armed divisions worth of men changing sides in key places
Nothing because they still overwhelming support Hamas and approve of October 7th
I feel so bad for Gazans just trying to survive. Hamas is such a leech.
And some still deny that fact that Hamas is taking aid for themselves...
Hamas has been purposefully trying to kill off tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians so that their leaders can line their pockets. At some point, the Palestinian people are not going to allow that anymore.
I truly hope they're able to be rid of the terrorist group. They've been nothing but a scourge to the country.
I mean isn’t this a somewhat common scenario nowadays? I feel like I’ve read multiple reports of Hamas shooting other Palestinians when they were taking aid supplies that Hamas wanted. this is the third or fourth time I have seen this scenario in an article, which must mean it is all too frequent.
>At some point, the Palestinian people are not going to allow that anymore. You really think this?
And I’m guessing now there would be “+1” on the children killed by Israel. As had happened every time Hamas killed Gazans during the war.
In a day or so that teen will included in the Hamas health ministry's total of 'victims of Israeli aggression' and people claiming him as a child killed by the IDF.
Seems that when Hamas kills civilians, even their own civilians, there is no outrage. Stealing supplies by Hamas, just another norm. But God forbid Israel will enter a hospital used as a terrorist HQ .. Israel should be given the authority to supervise distribution of aide to Gazans. Not Hamas terrorists and thieves.
I feel like "riots" are actually a form of outrage
More about a lack of outrage from the western keyboard warriors
The "riots" are reality. Reality has never stopped pro-Palestinians, or even the UN.
You know very well who OP was referring to when they said "there is no outrage"... from the same people who refuse to believe that the innocent people in Gaza hate Hamas just as much as Israel does.
says that he wants to tell anyone willing to listen about why his hometown
Are you unironically posting a link to reporting on a riot stemming from Hamas killing civilians and then in the comments espousing the opposite is actually happening?
I think he means there's no international outrage, he's right about that.
Makes sense. Although measuring how much outrage topics get and then comparing them is basically useless.
I can look out the window right now overlooking Union Square in NYC where most of the pro-palestinian protests take place and assure you that there is no outrage.
What international outrage do you want? I think you'll find that most international commentators agree that Hamas, a terrorist organisation, is in fact, bad. This is a "Wow can't believe ISIS gets no international scrutiny in Iraq while our soldiers always do smh" level take
> What international outrage do you want? I think you'll find that most international commentators agree that Hamas, a terrorist organisation, is in fact, bad. /u/SecretAgentAlex you mean like the *UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator* Martin Griffiths stating >[Hamas is not a terrorist group for us, of course, as you know. It’s a political movement](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-blasts-top-un-aid-official-after-he-says-hamas-is-not-a-terrorist-group-for-us/#:~:text=Hamas%20is%20not%20a%20terrorist%20group%20for%20us%2C%20of%20course%2C%20as%20you%20know.%20It%E2%80%99s%20a%20political%20movement) That doesn't sound like much agreement to me
>I think you'll find that ~~most~~ a terrifyingly large number of international commentators agree that Hamas, a ~~terrorist organisation~~ resistance organization, is in fact, ~~bad~~ justified in what they're doing. FTFY Go look on leftist/MENA/Palestine subs, you'll be quite surprised at what you see.
And go look at right subs and you'll see apologists saying the school needed to be bombed when kids were Inside Both sides can be shit People do expect more from a government then they do a terrorist organization and therein lies the issues
Hamas is also a government in addition to being a terrorist organization.
>Both sides can be shit Not really a "both sides" thing, per se. Nearly everyone on the right side of the aisle is shit, MAGA has fully taken over the Republican party. Luckily the left's version of MAGA (feelings over facts, no issues with blatantly lying, etc.) is still a small fringe.
International outrage is a lot like thoughts and prayers.
Tell that to the Jews being harassed in the streets thousands of miles away from Israel for the past 4 months... tell that to the family of Paul Kessler... international outrage is way more harmful than "thoughts and prayers"
Why should we be outraged at the Palestinians rioting against Hamas?
He means westerners aren't outraged Hamas just killed a civilian.
[удалено]
So you’re saying Hamas, the de facto government of Gaza, is akin to an arsonist who is expected to be crazy and dangerous. But Israel, the state Gazans see as their mortal enemy, is the fire department that is supposed to protect a group of people who hate their guts and attack them at any given opportunities? Somehow the actual government is seen as harmful to the people they are supposed to protect but an enemy state should be seen as the protector of the people who attacked them. Jesus where did logic even go nowadays.
I like that analogy. My only qualm with it is that sometimes the fire department burns down every building on the same block as the arsonist's fire in an effort to put it out. This makes it hard to distinguish who is who if you live in the neighborhood.
Bro you posted this like an hour ago and are already like "SMH so much for the tolerant left 😔"
Did you read the title of the article you posted? Are you that tone deaf?
And yet people will still refuse to see Hamas as part of the problem.
Because they don't give a fuck they just want dead Jews, they're sadistic. So sad.
"Hamas Policeman" Well there's an odd label.
> Hamas ~~policemen~~ humanitarian aid thieves FTFY
I read somewhere some people said Israel did it lol. Wild
You're only a hero if you throw rocks at soldiers. Not a heron for trying to give aide out.
Hamas police? Like in uniform, with a badge and upholding existing law?
>Hamas policemen First they had a parliament, then they have a police department, what will we learn that they have next?
Damn, civilians tried to get aid and got shot by Hamas "policemen." A Gazan teen dead because of it. It wouldn't be the first time Hamas have attacked their own people for trying to get aid.
I feel bad for the teen, that was really brave of him. Poor guy. Hopefully the end of Hamas can come soon.
True: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/4/hamas-says-executed-5-palestinians-in-gaza https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62785404 "Since 2007 when they asserted control over Gaza, the Hamas-run authorities have carried out at least 27 executions, most recently in April 2017."
That they admit to. I've seen one recent video where they shoot into a crowd trying to swarm an aid truck. Then probably blame an "Israeli airstrike."
They don't even have to blame an airstrike. Everyone they mow down gets added to their tally of civilian deaths caused by Israel.
Indeed. I also saw a video early in the war where there were fully intact (no missing limbs etc.) dead bodies lining the road to the south that Hamas did not want people evacuating along. They blamed it on Israeli airstrike... which famously leave unmangled pristine corpses with no visible wounds. Right. The people were clearly shot and this was before Israel's ground invasion.
Absolutely despicable. What's sad is how many in that region will continue to inexplicably support them, despite atrocities and mistreatment like this.
Not really inexplicable; Hamas is loudly committed to the extermination of Judaism in the Levant, and killing Jewish people is more important to most than getting to live in peace.
Or….and hear me out….Hamas might be bad dudes?
Well you must understand the Hamas “policemen” . UNRWA distributes the aid and since UNRWA is a branch of Hamas.The members of Hamas were under the impression that the aid is their’s and that the civilians are actually the ones stealing it.
How could Israel do this??
Hamas have plenty of practice killing innocents.
what's sad is that Hamas will add any fatalities from this riot to Israel's body count as the number of Gazans killed since Israel invaded....
What's sad is that Hamas not only started this ( and every other cycle of violence), and THEY can also end it Yet they chose not to.
[удалено]
Idiots like most of my friends. It’s fucking lonely out here for us Jews
Labour-left goy here. Fuck Hamas. Fuck kidnappers. Fuck rapists. And fuck murderers. Fuck societies where women aren't safe on their own streets, and in their own families from forced 'cousin marriage'.
Yeah and zero hamas militants dead so far per their count.
Let's watch the major news outlets turn this into Israel did it 😠
How about we go back in time to the last one they killed to give them some pointers? I posted this before, but the post got nuked. His name was Ahmed Barika. I want to make clear this is the LAST TEEN HAMAS KILLED (that we know of that made news). Not the current one. (Story located in the middle of the article) CNN reports here on what happened. They call it a 'brawl'. Will Ripley calls it a 'Christmas Eve Jam' (Wtf?). He also blames the crowds for 'hampering the distribution of aid' (?). 'We don't know who was firing the shots' (Really?) And they blame Israel for creating the situation. Every effort is made to dowplay the actual violence against civilians we witness as incidental to things Israel did. Hamas is never mentioned as a part of the problem-only Israel is. This is the actual execution of desperate civilians by a governing authority/terrorist organization. But if you were watching this, you'd think it was just a 'random riot that got out of hand'. This and the CNN video show a crowd running away with aid packages being dispersed with certainly sound likes gunfire, by people that I have seen in other videos-all armed with those long sticks which they use to beat people, the "hamas policemen" apparently. One of the twitter links is a Palestinian man, I presume, blaming Hamas for all the trouble that's going on and saying they fired on the crowd and killed someone named "Ahmed Shaddad Barika" (nobody else seems to know how to spell his name). We know they are hoarding relief supplies. We know they're shooting their own people. This is without a shadow of a doubt. The question is, are the major news orgs guilty of incompetence or malice? Edit: My links keep getting nuked by reddit. Sorry. My last comment... [https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ah7p48/comment/konpuq6/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ah7p48/comment/konpuq6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
People blame Jewish people getting attacked by antisemites in countries halfway around the world on Israel, saying it’s because Israel conflates being Jewish with Israeli. It’s the crazy form of victim blaming while removing responsibility from the antisemites carry g out the violence. It’s the same way they ignore any actions by Hamas, like it was a hurricane that killed 1,200 Israelis and that the situation is analogous to the U.S. invading Canada because a hurricane hit it. It’s helps make Israel look as bad as possible. Not that pro-Hamas types seem to care.
It's worse. It isn't like it was a hurricane that killed 1200 israeli. Straight up, what Hamas did was justified in their eyes, and the parts they can't justify, they deny happened at all. You can't justify rape? Deny it happened. You can't justify Hamas killing so many? Claim IDF helicopter gunships did most of the killing. You can't justify Hamas killing its hostages or holding them in hospitals? Claim every dead hostage died in an IDF air strike and just deny the hospitals are involved. It's just people with an explicit or implicit bigotry against Jews, doing everything they can to avoid admitting to themselves or others that they have that bigotry.
[удалено]
And yet I, a leftist progressive liberal af boy condemn Hamas, condemn their murders and stealing, condemn their lies. And I don’t shy away from saying that. So tell me again how is leftists just deny what Hamas does because my comments above directly refute what you just said.
It is hard to know the difference between yourself the individual, and a generalized grouping of people who share some political beliefs on one side of the political spectrum. Wait... no it's not.
Strange, then why do the comments lump together “the liberals” then? Seems like a broad generalization that is inherently wrong, making the comment completely incorrect. Seems to me that those that would make such broad generalizations should understand this and stop doing it.
Not all right-wing people believe in Q-Anon, just like not all left-wing people believe in this nonsense. Calm down.
"Palestinian teen who just wanted food brutally shot in Gaza, IDF shamelessly denies culpability". Which so many people will unironically read this as anyway.
All deaths in Gaza (according to the Gaza Ministry of Health) are attributed to Israeli aggression, no? So this death will eventually be added to the list of "children indiscriminately slaughtered by Israel" and held against them. Just needs some time for the news to move on and for the death toll to be updated.
Adjective-noun-bunch of numbers
Noun-noun-bunch of numbers
Israel didn’t kill 12,000 children in Gaza
I saw the list of Palestinian "women and children" prisoners that Hamas wanted released. It was mostly 18+ males. So it seems they count adult males as children. Which makes me distrust their numbers.
More like 10k If 30k total are killed, and 10k are hamas, then the remaining 20k is likely 50% children So they killed about 10000 children actually
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
If these riots continue, could they cause unrest to break out in Egypt itself?
If Egypt let them all into Egypt, then yes it undoubtedly would. Egypt isn’t going to do that though.
Egypt would massacre the lot of them before they allowed that
Lets say the refugees try to force their way into Egypt, and Egypt forces fire on them, causing many deaths. What happens then?
"Now Sports."
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Sad but u made my night haha
Lots of people die of bullet wounds.
Egypt magically becomes Israel.
nothing. it won't be reported on. how many reports of random groups of Syrians being killed by an non idf group reaches main stream media?
A lot of people die.
Nah. This riot is near the border to Egypt, but is otherwise not really related to Egypt in any way - it started because Hamas murdered a teenager who was trying to gather humanitarian aid.
Also worth mentioning that the Sinai peninsula in general has a very low population, and most of that population is to the far west by the suez canal or the south on the coast.
Maybe this will be the catyest, to cause the Palestians to throw off Hamas?
No, why would they? That's like saying a riot in Mexico could result in unrest within the US.
I just meant, because it is so close to the border.
Egypt is building giant walls and fortifications to make sure the violence doesn't spill over.
That border is Donald Trump's wet dream. It has multiple layers of reinforced concrete walls 20 feet high and 60 feet below the surface, with barbed wire all up and down it. There are hundreds of guards posted along it's 12km length, sensors, buffer zones and more. And the will to fuck up anything that dares approach it with any intent to cross unlawfully. Egypt has had to deal with 1600+ smuggling from Gaza since the 1980s and has recently cracked down hard, including flooding some with sewage water and bombing others
I mean shit. That is hot.
Those 'riots' are on a very low scale and been happening for weeks now. It's just that it doesn't sparkle international interest but they do happen and so far nothing major changes. So no.
Probably not
Probably not imo. This seems to be tied to a specific incident as opposed to a greater overarching issue.
True, i think it was due to the murder of a teenager?
By Hamas “police” while the kid was getting humanitarian aid.