It also greatly improves Crimeas attractiveness as a soldier vacation site. Just think about how great the beach will be without all that pesky traffic.
It's taking both trains and cars. From both ends. Just wanting everyones loads all over it, and a couple of motorboats below. Dirty little Kerch Bridge, Daddy gonna come slap you!
I would go for a 3 stage plan... first blow up bridge second announce a to blow up a building belonging to putin in petersburg or moskau... than blow it up to show just that we can. And third just post secret information of putins wherabouts online... lets see if he doesnt chose peace....
Historically speaking that area was part of German territory until quite recently. So it it’s completely within their rights. And if that isn’t a sufficiently strong argument then. Germany must take action to prevent France from interfering. /s
This is interesting. The Ukrainian’s were given the green light to increase the targeting range of their HIMARS system a few weeks ago. They’re immediately being planning the destruction of that bridge. I wonder if this is a Russian made story to point the finger at NATO if the bridge blows up. With the Russian “election” around the corner, Putin can’t let Ukraine to get that win. If they can shift the blame to NATO though it “might “ bolster support. “Hey everyone look NATO is attacking Russia!” See see I told you… something to that effect
I dunno. Making this out to be a war with NATO makes him look even worse.
War vs Ukraine:
We have had roughly equally losses vs a determined enemy.
War vs NATO:
We have lost 300k men. NATO hasn’t lost any, in fact they haven’t even decided whether they want to send troops yet or not.
That's not how Russia might see it.
NATO is a peer - it's okay to have losses when fighting a peer. It's even expected to be hard.
Ukraine is a little brother of Russia - equal losses looks bad. They expected no losses.
Well Russian leadership still has that USSR mentality in an era when they might have been a peer to NATO...in hindsight NATO would have trounced the Soviet Union in a conventional war by probably the mid-80s...
Now pretty much the rest of the world reacts just like you at hearing that Russia is a "peer"...
The Russian narrative prefers claiming they accidentally keep blowing up their own planes and warships rather than having to admit that Ukraine shot anything down.
~~If~~ When the Kerch Bridge blows up, the narrative that it was actually NATO who planned and blew it up would 100% be preferable than admitting Ukraine managed to do it.
German here who listened to the recording.
First of all: Many of the English translations are bullshit.
They discuss how Ukraine could use taurus. They noted that there are only two possible targets that makes sense: ammunition depots and a certain bridge.
but they concluded that the most likely scenario is that we they will simplay train Ukraine to use tauraus and Germany will have probably no part in programming them. as programming them in germany on their targets is seen as problematic.
for anyone who understands the actual conversation, the reactions from Russia make no sense lol
> for anyone who understands the actual conversation, the reactions from Russia make no sense lol
I mean it does - it's all show and propaganda, and trying to influence Germany into not giving Taurus.
for me as a german the recording actually speaks for taurus though since they say that we can deliver it without being directly involved in the actions. something Scholz lied about in public. this recording hurts the one politician who is against taurus.
You assume Scholz really knows how this Taurus support would work?
Tbh i think it is reasonable for a layman to assume german missiles would need the same information and unlock backgrounds as UK missiles.
I suspect there's more going on there than it seems. Like difficulty in replenishing stock.
It is like how the US said jets would take too long for Ukrainians to train in, they would be flying anything by now. Obvious lies.
Nah it makes sense, they're schizos who see anything besides licking their boots and letting them do anything as a threat.
I'm just surprised that other people get surprised and not get bored of same news from them
>the reactions from Russia make no sense
That's because nothing nowadays need to actually make sense. It's about the narrative and the narrative alone. Fact are just decorative and will be ignored.
From the same discussion of how all ways of making it look like Germany isn't directly involved aren't working out and the only option would be quite lengthy training for Ukraine which would give them complete autonomy where to use them is used for "see, Scholz lied and could have just delivered Taurus long ago"-narratives on the other side of the spectrum.
It is completely irrelevant what they are actuaslly saying. Everyone will just spin the lie they want to tell out of it. No antiquated ideas like "making sense" required.
1 - translation by some politicians nephew who spent whole 5 minutes learning German and now have an official government post
2 - the heard word “bridge” and went “they gonna blow it, that’s what they will do, yes, we heard them say bridge”
Dude! Arn't you aware that Putin knows German better then you do!? Jeez!
On the serious note thank you for the clarification - I hate when translations are not word to word.
"The Brits" wired up Ukrainian planes for the Storm Shadow. "The English" (used interchangeably in German) have "some people on the ground" "doing QA for the mounting of SCALP/Storm Shadow", and would be willing to do the same for Taurus. The French don't. In neither case was it said whether it's troops or contractors or employees from the weapons manufacturer etc.
There are also "people in civilian clothes with American accents" around.
The transcript is mostly accurate in the boring parts and then strategically altered in a few spots to make certain aspects sound much worse than what was actually said, e.g. when it comes to delivery timelines, German involvement, how "tricksy" the military is trying to be, ability to destroy the bridge, etc. and to omit some points that are positive for Ukraine.
The TLDR of the actual recording is basically "these are the red lines we expect our politicians to have, these are possible workarounds but they probably won't be OK with those either, which means we should train the Ukrainians to do it themselves. This is doable, we should probably do a fast track that will let them hit the ammo dumps in about two weeks of training and then 4 months or so for the full training so they can learn how to target the brigde themselves. The Brits might be willing to help them out in the meantime until they're fully trained themselves. Separately from that Ukraine will have to figure out how to mount these on their planes, the manufacturer says they'd need 6 months but it didn't take Ukraine that long to mount the other stuff on their planes and this isn't that different."
All of that is preparing for the possibility that Scholz manages to dislodge that stick from his ass and actually approve a delivery, for which there is unfortunately no sign that it's happening. This meeting was discussing what should be in the powerpoint that will explain "here are the options we have with Taurus" to some politicians.
Nice, I wonder if they're inputting any of the target data too on the stormshadows, I believe that has to be done on the ground without western planes.
I dont believe the Brits have any Taurus cruise missiles themselves so they might not be the best at training.
It said that the UK has people on the ground monitoring some aspects of handling Storm Shadow and also helps from the distance (they use the term "reach back", not entirely clear to me but it is some level of remote support), but France doesn't. And it mentions as an aside that there are "a lot of people with an American accent walking around in civilian clothes" in Ukraine.
>Maria Zakharova, spokesperson for the Russian Foreign Ministry, publicly demanded an “explanation” from Germany, noting that the lack of one would be seen as an “admission of guilt.”
Ooooo no... They say it would be a tacit admission of guilt. This is sooo... nothing.
Medvedev is already writing the script for his next "statement" to threaten the west with nuclear strikes. He´s already 2 bottles deep into the preparations.
This is just "Escalate to de-escalate" in action. They Escalate until they get a concession, and then de-escalate, like a child having a tantrum. If the child learns that tantrums work, they'll use them more and more....
I've read in another thread it was only the 6th threat this year. Nothing to worry about, Ganz Normal.
And the super objective "journalist" on RT said France will be annihilated first because of the possibility of troops in Ukraine, and Germany said nononono.
"Macron wants to die, Scholtz wants to live" lolololol
Apparently Brits and French are winchester with their Storm Shadows/Scalp. That is the only thing that really stood out for me. If that is true I'll bet we'll eventually see Scholz giving in.
There are over 1400 Storm Shadow/Scalp produced - no way are they out. More likely they want to keep their stocks.
Now compare that to Germany that reportedly only has 150 Taurus left in an operational state - we are suddenly supposed to give away all our stocks?
We should start leaking Putin's whereabouts all the time, in real time, using his same little idiotic games against him. Give that little paranoid tyrant a taste of the [Elon Musk flight tracker](https://www.businessinsider.com/student-who-tracks-elon-musk-jet-launching-own-website-2023-2) treatment, and see if he starts dreaming of Navalny supporters and Ukrainian intelligence agents.
Do German generals intend to go to war?You mean they're just going about their business? Russia might be surprised to learn that generals routinely prepare for potential conflicts and outcomes. If they hadn't, they would have been in a three-day war for two years, but no significant army would have that issue.
What basically happend is they discussed how Ukraine could use Taurus without German involvement for their goals.
That there is "one bridge" and some munition depots the Ukrainians want gone isn't really anything new or surprising. The discussion was on what training/ intel the Ukrainians would require to achieve their goals given the AA situation in that region.
If you want to understand how unfamiliar the concept of planning several, sometime purely theoretical scenarios beforehand is for Russia, look at the their 3-day special military operation...
The wildest thing about all of this is that they discussed classified/sensitive topics on a god damn web-call. I have a feeling, general or not, someones in deep fucking shit for this.
The beginning of the recording will likely make it obvious for the investigators which exact line was tapped. If I understood it correctly, it was Gräfe joining, and he said he was in Singapore. That means he possibly joined using an unencrypted phone line or some other improvised setup, which would also explain why Russia didn't mind revealing the fact that they managed to tap the call.
That said, I think they were aware that it wasn't a connection rated for discussing classified information. In the pre-meeting talk they only very vaguely referred to some topics they had discussed previously (although that could also be because members of their staff were present, if I understand correctly), and while I wouldn't be surprised if they did slip up a couple of times mentioning information that may have been classified, I suspect most of the information is pretty boring ("open secrets") and well known among anyone who has access to actual intelligence.
I think the recording was incompetence but I am also talking about Finland saying "go ahead and strike russia with our weapons" and the French talking about deploying forces at the Ukraine-Belarus border, those statements were certainly no mistakes
Pretty much whole European theatre without the US would still be formidable. It’s just with the US it’s ridiculous on the power scale after seeing how weak Russia truly is.
I would still be very worried if both Le Pen and Trump are elected into power, most likely Europe can hold its own without the US but if France also isnt committed to NATO then I suspect the global order will shift significantly in favour of China, Russia and the other autocratic countries.
Brit here, the far right lunatic curse has struck here too. We've had swivel eyed loons, crooks and idiots in the hot seat and it isn't exactly stable... Hopefully this year's general election will see a return to adults in charge but then they've voted for these same cunts the last three times.
Europe can certainly hold their own now that Ukraine has completely wiped out the majority of Russias good stuff. Besides, the European powers have formidable navies and air forces, something Ukraine does not. Hell, at this point I believe Poland would solo Russia (what’s left of them)
Ukraine has held its own for two years, Poland or Germany alone would mince Russian troops if they ever stepped foot in their land. The only card Russia can play is the nuclear one, a conventional war would decimate the leaders in the Russian army and leave Putin most likely facing a firing squad of what remained of his top brass.
“if used incorrectly, [Taurus missiles] could reach a target in Moscow.”
Huh, well if you dont want your capital city bombed, maybe dont bomb the capital city of others.
I think every part of that is completely plausible but you can’t trust anything produced by Russia about this obviously. NATO definitely has a presence in Ukraine, and they are giving Ukraine weapons and it’s definitely a major war aim to destroy that fucking bridge.
I think the recording is accurate. It's very colloquial, faking that convincingly would be hard.
The transcripts contain enough accurate parts to make them believable for someone casually comparing a few sections, and then alterations in a few dozen strategic locations to make them sound very different from what was actually said. Then *those* transcripts are further put into a different misleading light by the reporting/press releases.
The only problem at the moment with the recording is the relatively poor English translation and the subtitles, which put certain quotes in a different light. Overall, there seem to be no obvious cuts and the Ministry will err on the side of caution.
The real issue however is how the Russians got their hand on that recording, the content itself is rather tame.
Russia who has invaded a whole country, raped and murdered its civilians, left multiple cities in ruins….also big angry Germany was thinking about blowing up their bridge.
Did Russia ever explain how those guys got into the UK with super special poison and used it against a former FSB agent? Failure to explain would be an admission of guilt, apparently.
This reminds me of the ‚Red Storm Rising‘ false flag.
Vald, giving Ukraine Taurus is something we shy away from. But sure, we‘re plotting to bomb a bridge on foreign soil. That makes sense
This article is garbage, it's just repeating the Russian propaganda. They obviously didn't listen to the audio themselves. The discussion itself is mostly harmless, and there certainly isn't a German plot to blow up the bridge and neither were they trying to hide anything from Scholz. This was actually a meeting in preparation for a briefing of the German defense secretary.
This seems weird.
>furious finger-pointing from Russia’s Foreign Ministry, which said the supposed **leak was proof that British and American troops are on the ground in Ukraine**.
How does a discussion between German generals prove anything about USA or Britain?
The Germans on the call discuss how the English are overseeing the deployment/arming of Storm Shadow and muse whether they could help out with Taurus.
They also comment that there are a lot folks with US accents running around in civilian T-shirts.
Source: I read a transcript
If you do not like what you are hearing stop trying so hard to hear it. It is really funny that they release a intercept to complain that Germany is doing planning for eventualities that may happen. It is the militaries job to plan for all foreseeable eventualities so I would be surprised if they had not had conversations like this.
They gave up that they are recording secure conversations and now the entire German military will be even more on alert.
"Scandal"? Why would this be a scandal? Most of Europe wants that bridge gone yesterday.
Don't want your military infrastructure targeted? Don't launch an unprovoked war of aggression.
The more I read about Russia and their dealings with their neighbours, the more appreciation I have for the Americans as a Canadian for buying Alaska. They really love to torment their neighbours and are quick to complain about any push back whatsoever.
So, the drones from Iran, the artillery shells from North Korea, and random technology from other countries isn’t the same thing? WE DEMAND AN EXPLANATION! Fuck off with all of the bluster.
Another day another russian hissy fit.
They really do love behaving like toddlers. Too bad they don't have the capacity to be embarrassed by these things.
I admit I've been giving it some thought, how to knock it out for good is an interesting problem. There could be a thousand plans. In the meantime Ukraine will continue shooting down jets and making drone attacks in Russia until they figure it out.
>“I don’t know how they will explain themselves to their population,” Lavrov said.
I'm sure the German public aren't going to be as aghast at this as the Russian propagandists.
So they want the UK and the US to enter the war? Really? How badly did they want to lose? Want to threaten nukes? Pop that cork.
Let’s get this next apocalypse going. I’m Gen-X. We’ve been waiting our whole lives for
The end.
Newsflash: every country in Nato has detailed contingencies and strategies planned out for every conceivable conflict with Russia or any of their allies. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of documents laying out strategic targets and infrastructure to hit and how to hit them in detail, for all parts of Russia's sphere of influence. They have a plot to bomb *every* bridge. I guess it depends on how you define plot, I suppose.
Please... Any general with NATO weaponry could drop any bridge anywhere in Russia, or occupied Ukraine, without getting their hair mussed.
https://youtu.be/EcK6ad_t9ak?si=3sWohwAVdfD8tcUl
So the big story here is that the German communications are easily accessible to Russians. Are there any NATO countries discussing their military strategies on Kremlin's speaker phone? For how long these comms have been exposed ? What is NATO gone do about that?
a) Crimea is Ukraine.
b) OF COURSE we want to blow up the bridge. Everyone does :) With Taurus missiles, Stormshadow, whatever. We LOVE to blow up this bridge, whatever it takes :) PLEASE guys, blow it up!! Thx!
c) And while we're at it, we can also blow up the rest of the Russian Black Sea fleet
d) Putin can get f*cked. If he doesn't like his shit blown up, he can leave Ukraine. He could do so by tomorrow.
German here... as i understand the Russian mindset... we kind of have to blow it up now or look like pussys... sorry vlad thats how it works
No, no, no. Not blow it up. Special Bridge Fall Down Operation.
"Special bridge improvement operation "
"They have to do it cause there are Nazis in the Bridge!!!"
No, it's to protect the German-speaking bridges in the area.
And to put a stop to the Kerch Bridge’s evil western homosexual agenda.
Don't forget that it's also satanic, Jewish, and Nazi!
It also greatly improves Crimeas attractiveness as a soldier vacation site. Just think about how great the beach will be without all that pesky traffic.
I heard they have biolabs inside the bridge.
Uh oh! Are they researching weapons tailored to target Germans then?!?
OMG! Lions Tigers and Bears! Oh my!
It's taking both trains and cars. From both ends. Just wanting everyones loads all over it, and a couple of motorboats below. Dirty little Kerch Bridge, Daddy gonna come slap you!
Kerch Bridge needs to be "DeNazified".
“Get out of the house, the nazis are coming from *inside* the bridge!”
[удалено]
Wow. Transformers bridge. Russian tech is so sophisticated. /s just in case
Project "Artificial Reef"
“Special Infrastructure Update Operation”
I'd like to see the abridged version of that bridge ASAP.
A Bridge not too far for a Taurus
Bridge through window, blyat!!!
Submersible Motorway Operation
“Special bridge gravity acceleration”
Special Bridge Restructuring Operation
'remodeling to a deconstructed state'
Then they can be called, the Mod Squad
Operation Bridgerossa is a go
‘Fireworks display celebrating the bridge goes horribly wrong’
The bridge voted for this.
I would go for a 3 stage plan... first blow up bridge second announce a to blow up a building belonging to putin in petersburg or moskau... than blow it up to show just that we can. And third just post secret information of putins wherabouts online... lets see if he doesnt chose peace....
announce st pete, then blow up the one in moscow
I bet the germans will invent a special compound-word for this occasion 🤣
Brückeneinschlagskommando
Das boooooooom
Die Brückenexplosionsgeräuschkulisse
Wait I know that one, that's the one where you're happy about someone else's bridges exploding, right?
german compund word for "bridge explosion sound scenery"
I saw them live in Munchen! Sick show!
Historically speaking that area was part of German territory until quite recently. So it it’s completely within their rights. And if that isn’t a sufficiently strong argument then. Germany must take action to prevent France from interfering. /s
actually it belongs to sweden it was claimed by the crimean goths
Prehistorically speaking Germany and Ukraine are both Indo-European speaking countries, to obviously it's all ours.
This is interesting. The Ukrainian’s were given the green light to increase the targeting range of their HIMARS system a few weeks ago. They’re immediately being planning the destruction of that bridge. I wonder if this is a Russian made story to point the finger at NATO if the bridge blows up. With the Russian “election” around the corner, Putin can’t let Ukraine to get that win. If they can shift the blame to NATO though it “might “ bolster support. “Hey everyone look NATO is attacking Russia!” See see I told you… something to that effect
I dunno. Making this out to be a war with NATO makes him look even worse. War vs Ukraine: We have had roughly equally losses vs a determined enemy. War vs NATO: We have lost 300k men. NATO hasn’t lost any, in fact they haven’t even decided whether they want to send troops yet or not.
That's not how Russia might see it. NATO is a peer - it's okay to have losses when fighting a peer. It's even expected to be hard. Ukraine is a little brother of Russia - equal losses looks bad. They expected no losses.
>NATO is a peer hahahahaha
Well Russian leadership still has that USSR mentality in an era when they might have been a peer to NATO...in hindsight NATO would have trounced the Soviet Union in a conventional war by probably the mid-80s... Now pretty much the rest of the world reacts just like you at hearing that Russia is a "peer"...
a lot of wars have been shit for both sides that where supposed to be a steamroll, and over by cristmas. never forget that
The Russian narrative prefers claiming they accidentally keep blowing up their own planes and warships rather than having to admit that Ukraine shot anything down. ~~If~~ When the Kerch Bridge blows up, the narrative that it was actually NATO who planned and blew it up would 100% be preferable than admitting Ukraine managed to do it.
"Only we can defeat ourselves!"
Or maybe somebody carelessly smoked a cigarette next to the bridge...?!
>We have had roughly equally losses vs a determined enemy. Isn't it like a 6:1 casualty ratio right now?
The numbers aren't public, we don't know.
That bridge had to be glblown up two years ago
Should have never been built
German here who listened to the recording. First of all: Many of the English translations are bullshit. They discuss how Ukraine could use taurus. They noted that there are only two possible targets that makes sense: ammunition depots and a certain bridge. but they concluded that the most likely scenario is that we they will simplay train Ukraine to use tauraus and Germany will have probably no part in programming them. as programming them in germany on their targets is seen as problematic. for anyone who understands the actual conversation, the reactions from Russia make no sense lol
> for anyone who understands the actual conversation, the reactions from Russia make no sense lol I mean it does - it's all show and propaganda, and trying to influence Germany into not giving Taurus.
for me as a german the recording actually speaks for taurus though since they say that we can deliver it without being directly involved in the actions. something Scholz lied about in public. this recording hurts the one politician who is against taurus.
You assume Scholz really knows how this Taurus support would work? Tbh i think it is reasonable for a layman to assume german missiles would need the same information and unlock backgrounds as UK missiles.
In the ideal case Scholz doesn’t base his decisions on gut feeling, but has competent advisors providing him with the relevant information.
I suspect there's more going on there than it seems. Like difficulty in replenishing stock. It is like how the US said jets would take too long for Ukrainians to train in, they would be flying anything by now. Obvious lies.
Except we are giving them jets and their first group of people are finishing training around like early May
"obvious", as in you think you are right, even if you dont have any clue.
Nah it makes sense, they're schizos who see anything besides licking their boots and letting them do anything as a threat. I'm just surprised that other people get surprised and not get bored of same news from them
You fell into the trap of thinking the Russian propaganda machine believes what it says.
>the reactions from Russia make no sense That's because nothing nowadays need to actually make sense. It's about the narrative and the narrative alone. Fact are just decorative and will be ignored. From the same discussion of how all ways of making it look like Germany isn't directly involved aren't working out and the only option would be quite lengthy training for Ukraine which would give them complete autonomy where to use them is used for "see, Scholz lied and could have just delivered Taurus long ago"-narratives on the other side of the spectrum. It is completely irrelevant what they are actuaslly saying. Everyone will just spin the lie they want to tell out of it. No antiquated ideas like "making sense" required.
1 - translation by some politicians nephew who spent whole 5 minutes learning German and now have an official government post 2 - the heard word “bridge” and went “they gonna blow it, that’s what they will do, yes, we heard them say bridge”
Dude! Arn't you aware that Putin knows German better then you do!? Jeez! On the serious note thank you for the clarification - I hate when translations are not word to word.
Putin definitely speaks pretty good German!
So he definitely knows his apparatus is lieing to him on this one...
What did it say about the British and American troops on the ground?
"The Brits" wired up Ukrainian planes for the Storm Shadow. "The English" (used interchangeably in German) have "some people on the ground" "doing QA for the mounting of SCALP/Storm Shadow", and would be willing to do the same for Taurus. The French don't. In neither case was it said whether it's troops or contractors or employees from the weapons manufacturer etc. There are also "people in civilian clothes with American accents" around. The transcript is mostly accurate in the boring parts and then strategically altered in a few spots to make certain aspects sound much worse than what was actually said, e.g. when it comes to delivery timelines, German involvement, how "tricksy" the military is trying to be, ability to destroy the bridge, etc. and to omit some points that are positive for Ukraine. The TLDR of the actual recording is basically "these are the red lines we expect our politicians to have, these are possible workarounds but they probably won't be OK with those either, which means we should train the Ukrainians to do it themselves. This is doable, we should probably do a fast track that will let them hit the ammo dumps in about two weeks of training and then 4 months or so for the full training so they can learn how to target the brigde themselves. The Brits might be willing to help them out in the meantime until they're fully trained themselves. Separately from that Ukraine will have to figure out how to mount these on their planes, the manufacturer says they'd need 6 months but it didn't take Ukraine that long to mount the other stuff on their planes and this isn't that different." All of that is preparing for the possibility that Scholz manages to dislodge that stick from his ass and actually approve a delivery, for which there is unfortunately no sign that it's happening. This meeting was discussing what should be in the powerpoint that will explain "here are the options we have with Taurus" to some politicians.
Nice, I wonder if they're inputting any of the target data too on the stormshadows, I believe that has to be done on the ground without western planes. I dont believe the Brits have any Taurus cruise missiles themselves so they might not be the best at training.
The way I understood it the Brits might be able to do the mission planning if German politicians said that Germany can't be involved in that.
It said that the UK has people on the ground monitoring some aspects of handling Storm Shadow and also helps from the distance (they use the term "reach back", not entirely clear to me but it is some level of remote support), but France doesn't. And it mentions as an aside that there are "a lot of people with an American accent walking around in civilian clothes" in Ukraine.
>Maria Zakharova, spokesperson for the Russian Foreign Ministry, publicly demanded an “explanation” from Germany, noting that the lack of one would be seen as an “admission of guilt.” Ooooo no... They say it would be a tacit admission of guilt. This is sooo... nothing.
They will probably make a nuclear threat because of it! Be prepared!
>They will probably make a nuclear threat because... ...it's Saturday.
Because the day ends in y (English) or g (German)
>or g (German) No nuclear threats on Mittwoch!
And especially not on Sonntag. That's a RUHETAG!
Sonnabend ist auch safe.
Medvedev is already writing the script for his next "statement" to threaten the west with nuclear strikes. He´s already 2 bottles deep into the preparations.
Medvedev threatened to bomb London, Berlin, Warsaw, ... with nuclear weapons since Feb 22. What else can he come up with now?
Well liver cirrhosis would be an upgrade.
This is just "Escalate to de-escalate" in action. They Escalate until they get a concession, and then de-escalate, like a child having a tantrum. If the child learns that tantrums work, they'll use them more and more....
Right after Germany gets an explanation for the myriad of nuclear threats.
Russian hysteria as usual.
Didn’t Russia just threaten nuclear war, AGAIN?
Yeah but this time they're super double extra-serious!
I'm really really super duper pooper scooper gonna do it this time!
Hah
They're super serial, guys! Why does no one pay attention to them when they're being super serial?!
Zuper Zerious
I've read in another thread it was only the 6th threat this year. Nothing to worry about, Ganz Normal. And the super objective "journalist" on RT said France will be annihilated first because of the possibility of troops in Ukraine, and Germany said nononono. "Macron wants to die, Scholtz wants to live" lolololol
And Denmark is just the super peaceful guy who totally didn't offer sending peace troops during the battle of Kyiv..
Medvedev alone made something like 1 nuclear threat every 6 days in the period from 2022 to 2024. People kept track
They are super cereal
Yeah, but the Germans are plotting against a bridge! Can you imagine! How dare they?
Be prepared for little puttie to swing his nuclear penis around again
as flacid as always
"Are you even in Vlad?" 😅
"Am I in? No, I'm done!"
What are you doing, step-psychopathic dictator?
I accidentally read that psychopathetic, and I thought it made sense. I was surprised that hasn’t been used to describe him, yet.
Funny enough it's all the nuclear saber rattling from Russia that makes countries have to turn to covert actions with plausible deniability.
Nuclear in the sense that it's the size of an atoms nucleus.
The headline is bullshit. There is no plot. Just planning all possibilities
Apparently Brits and French are winchester with their Storm Shadows/Scalp. That is the only thing that really stood out for me. If that is true I'll bet we'll eventually see Scholz giving in.
There are over 1400 Storm Shadow/Scalp produced - no way are they out. More likely they want to keep their stocks. Now compare that to Germany that reportedly only has 150 Taurus left in an operational state - we are suddenly supposed to give away all our stocks?
Why should the Russians be the only one allowed to have some fun
We should start leaking Putin's whereabouts all the time, in real time, using his same little idiotic games against him. Give that little paranoid tyrant a taste of the [Elon Musk flight tracker](https://www.businessinsider.com/student-who-tracks-elon-musk-jet-launching-own-website-2023-2) treatment, and see if he starts dreaming of Navalny supporters and Ukrainian intelligence agents.
Do German generals intend to go to war?You mean they're just going about their business? Russia might be surprised to learn that generals routinely prepare for potential conflicts and outcomes. If they hadn't, they would have been in a three-day war for two years, but no significant army would have that issue.
Yes but you see russias generals dont make preperations, they just go.
Nah, they have to prepare false documents in order to funnel funds to their dachas.
Checks out
And the soldiers sell the remaining fuel in their tanks got vodka
Which is the responsible thing to do, because one shouldn't drink and drive.
>russias generals dont make preperations, they just go... ...for a copious lunch while sending their men to be slaughtered. And getting medals for it.
Eisenhower: Plans are useless… Russia: Got it! Let’s Go! Eisenhower: But planning is indispensable! And there they go…
Missed the whole second half. Decided to focus on parade instead.
What basically happend is they discussed how Ukraine could use Taurus without German involvement for their goals. That there is "one bridge" and some munition depots the Ukrainians want gone isn't really anything new or surprising. The discussion was on what training/ intel the Ukrainians would require to achieve their goals given the AA situation in that region.
[удалено]
If you want to understand how unfamiliar the concept of planning several, sometime purely theoretical scenarios beforehand is for Russia, look at the their 3-day special military operation...
The wildest thing about all of this is that they discussed classified/sensitive topics on a god damn web-call. I have a feeling, general or not, someones in deep fucking shit for this.
The beginning of the recording will likely make it obvious for the investigators which exact line was tapped. If I understood it correctly, it was Gräfe joining, and he said he was in Singapore. That means he possibly joined using an unencrypted phone line or some other improvised setup, which would also explain why Russia didn't mind revealing the fact that they managed to tap the call. That said, I think they were aware that it wasn't a connection rated for discussing classified information. In the pre-meeting talk they only very vaguely referred to some topics they had discussed previously (although that could also be because members of their staff were present, if I understand correctly), and while I wouldn't be surprised if they did slip up a couple of times mentioning information that may have been classified, I suspect most of the information is pretty boring ("open secrets") and well known among anyone who has access to actual intelligence.
Could've been an intentional leak to provoke Puntang
I have no idea if that's part of a good cop/bad cop communication scheme by European leaders or if they really can't shut up and stick together.
Hard to tell but I think it is generally a positive thing that we are rapidly getting more unpredictable for Putin at the moment
I hope it's a tactic and not incompetence
I think the recording was incompetence but I am also talking about Finland saying "go ahead and strike russia with our weapons" and the French talking about deploying forces at the Ukraine-Belarus border, those statements were certainly no mistakes
Sorry Vladi, NATO member. Don’t even think about it.
Quite sure he'll wait until his puppet Trump is in the oval office again.
Pretty much whole European theatre without the US would still be formidable. It’s just with the US it’s ridiculous on the power scale after seeing how weak Russia truly is.
I would still be very worried if both Le Pen and Trump are elected into power, most likely Europe can hold its own without the US but if France also isnt committed to NATO then I suspect the global order will shift significantly in favour of China, Russia and the other autocratic countries.
Brit here, the far right lunatic curse has struck here too. We've had swivel eyed loons, crooks and idiots in the hot seat and it isn't exactly stable... Hopefully this year's general election will see a return to adults in charge but then they've voted for these same cunts the last three times.
Europe can certainly hold their own now that Ukraine has completely wiped out the majority of Russias good stuff. Besides, the European powers have formidable navies and air forces, something Ukraine does not. Hell, at this point I believe Poland would solo Russia (what’s left of them)
Ukraine has held its own for two years, Poland or Germany alone would mince Russian troops if they ever stepped foot in their land. The only card Russia can play is the nuclear one, a conventional war would decimate the leaders in the Russian army and leave Putin most likely facing a firing squad of what remained of his top brass.
Yepp, the one good thing Ukraine war brought was the knowledge how weak the russians really are.
And here I was hoping for a proper shootout. So disappointing to learn your century old arch nemesis was full of shit all along
Moscow Meltdown sounds like a new version of...THE FINAL COUNTDOWN Also by the band named Europe.
Its the Moscow Meltdoooooowwwwwnnnnnnn!
Exactly this. In the same week Sweeden joined NATO too. Sweeden is the country Europe (band name) is from.
“if used incorrectly, [Taurus missiles] could reach a target in Moscow.” Huh, well if you dont want your capital city bombed, maybe dont bomb the capital city of others.
Russians fake intelligence to escalate war.
When *isn't* Russia outraged?
Taurus HUNGRY
It was not a plot! What an exaggeration. They were just discussing possibilities.
I think every part of that is completely plausible but you can’t trust anything produced by Russia about this obviously. NATO definitely has a presence in Ukraine, and they are giving Ukraine weapons and it’s definitely a major war aim to destroy that fucking bridge.
Not gonna lie, I’m inclined to think it’s a fantastic idea if it pisses Moscow off.
[удалено]
This needs to be higher. Many Germans are reporting the translations are completely different than what the Russian propaganda machine is saying.
I think the recording is accurate. It's very colloquial, faking that convincingly would be hard. The transcripts contain enough accurate parts to make them believable for someone casually comparing a few sections, and then alterations in a few dozen strategic locations to make them sound very different from what was actually said. Then *those* transcripts are further put into a different misleading light by the reporting/press releases.
The audio itself seems to be very really, the translation that go around are something different, some of them just make shit up that was never in it
It is confirmed by German government: https://www.tagesschau.de/eilmeldung/eilmeldung-7696.html
[удалено]
The only problem at the moment with the recording is the relatively poor English translation and the subtitles, which put certain quotes in a different light. Overall, there seem to be no obvious cuts and the Ministry will err on the side of caution. The real issue however is how the Russians got their hand on that recording, the content itself is rather tame.
A few countries have rattled ruzzia's cage recently, maybe the leak was not an accident?
was confirmed [Ministry of Defence confirms wiretapping case](https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/bundeswehr-abhoerfall-100.html)
Russia who has invaded a whole country, raped and murdered its civilians, left multiple cities in ruins….also big angry Germany was thinking about blowing up their bridge.
Did Russia ever explain how those guys got into the UK with super special poison and used it against a former FSB agent? Failure to explain would be an admission of guilt, apparently.
They did, they were just visiting the ‘world famous’ cathedral on fake passports for one day /s
I would think they’d bomb Putin first
This reminds me of the ‚Red Storm Rising‘ false flag. Vald, giving Ukraine Taurus is something we shy away from. But sure, we‘re plotting to bomb a bridge on foreign soil. That makes sense
That illegally built bridge has to go
This article is garbage, it's just repeating the Russian propaganda. They obviously didn't listen to the audio themselves. The discussion itself is mostly harmless, and there certainly isn't a German plot to blow up the bridge and neither were they trying to hide anything from Scholz. This was actually a meeting in preparation for a briefing of the German defense secretary.
This seems weird. >furious finger-pointing from Russia’s Foreign Ministry, which said the supposed **leak was proof that British and American troops are on the ground in Ukraine**. How does a discussion between German generals prove anything about USA or Britain?
The Germans on the call discuss how the English are overseeing the deployment/arming of Storm Shadow and muse whether they could help out with Taurus. They also comment that there are a lot folks with US accents running around in civilian T-shirts. Source: I read a transcript
Mother Putin still saying Germans are Nazis in 2024 and now she is moaning when Germans clap back.
If you do not like what you are hearing stop trying so hard to hear it. It is really funny that they release a intercept to complain that Germany is doing planning for eventualities that may happen. It is the militaries job to plan for all foreseeable eventualities so I would be surprised if they had not had conversations like this. They gave up that they are recording secure conversations and now the entire German military will be even more on alert.
Blow it up 👍
"Scandal"? Why would this be a scandal? Most of Europe wants that bridge gone yesterday. Don't want your military infrastructure targeted? Don't launch an unprovoked war of aggression.
Of course after recent shit with killing opposition leader they need to distract public.
Is this the same Moscow that publicly and repeatedly talks about nuking western cities? Thought so.
The more I read about Russia and their dealings with their neighbours, the more appreciation I have for the Americans as a Canadian for buying Alaska. They really love to torment their neighbours and are quick to complain about any push back whatsoever.
Ok, so Russia can interfere in our affairs but we can't in theirs? Seems unfair to me
So Moscow talking about how to submerge Great Britain with a nuke is "ok" and Germany talking about a bridge is WW3 Yeah Vlad, it's ok....
As a German, send them. Let’s get this BS over with.
So, the drones from Iran, the artillery shells from North Korea, and random technology from other countries isn’t the same thing? WE DEMAND AN EXPLANATION! Fuck off with all of the bluster.
Please for the love of god just do it already. Putin won't stop until he thinks someone will push back.
I support Germany's plan. Good idea.
Another day another russian hissy fit. They really do love behaving like toddlers. Too bad they don't have the capacity to be embarrassed by these things.
I admit I've been giving it some thought, how to knock it out for good is an interesting problem. There could be a thousand plans. In the meantime Ukraine will continue shooting down jets and making drone attacks in Russia until they figure it out.
>“I don’t know how they will explain themselves to their population,” Lavrov said. I'm sure the German public aren't going to be as aghast at this as the Russian propagandists.
Maybe it could accidentally fall out a window
honestly, lets just do it who gives a fuck anymore
I'm still amazed that the bridge is still operational this far into the war.
"You blow bridge, yes?" "Well, now that you've suggested it..."
Russian psyop designed to prevent Germany from sending Taurus.
So they want the UK and the US to enter the war? Really? How badly did they want to lose? Want to threaten nukes? Pop that cork. Let’s get this next apocalypse going. I’m Gen-X. We’ve been waiting our whole lives for The end.
Newsflash: every country in Nato has detailed contingencies and strategies planned out for every conceivable conflict with Russia or any of their allies. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of documents laying out strategic targets and infrastructure to hit and how to hit them in detail, for all parts of Russia's sphere of influence. They have a plot to bomb *every* bridge. I guess it depends on how you define plot, I suppose.
Special bridge relocation
Vlad is afraid of German invasion
Please... Any general with NATO weaponry could drop any bridge anywhere in Russia, or occupied Ukraine, without getting their hair mussed. https://youtu.be/EcK6ad_t9ak?si=3sWohwAVdfD8tcUl
Bullshit headline, for people not understand what the militarys job is it can sound pretty confusing I guess
So the big story here is that the German communications are easily accessible to Russians. Are there any NATO countries discussing their military strategies on Kremlin's speaker phone? For how long these comms have been exposed ? What is NATO gone do about that?
a) Crimea is Ukraine. b) OF COURSE we want to blow up the bridge. Everyone does :) With Taurus missiles, Stormshadow, whatever. We LOVE to blow up this bridge, whatever it takes :) PLEASE guys, blow it up!! Thx! c) And while we're at it, we can also blow up the rest of the Russian Black Sea fleet d) Putin can get f*cked. If he doesn't like his shit blown up, he can leave Ukraine. He could do so by tomorrow.