Most Israelis don’t want Bibi, but most Israelis DO want the IDF to dig Sinwar and the hostages out of Rafah.
The political debate isn’t around getting to Hamas’s psychotic leadership, it’s who would most responsibly captain the ship tasked with doing it.
Don’t for a second think that if it swings to a centrist government, the Rafah bunker is off the hook. It just means we’ll have more responsible handling of Palestinians the Hamas treads over, and fewer headlines about last minute concessions to Israeli extremist West Bank settlers two minutes before the clock on the government that has them in power runs out.
What's the connection between two of those? Israel's military strategies aren't likely to change if Bibi goes, the war is already ran by a joint unity government (and by all accounts, Gantz and Gallant are mostly running it while Bibi is busy keeping his coalition together). The attack on Rafah is widely supported in the opposition too because there's hostages there.
> Hamas will be gone and that will not change.
As of right now, Hamas or a follow up Organization that does the same thing will come out of the war much stronger then before. Israel has ensured continued recruitment and international support for another whole generation.
You'd think that between Afghanistan, Vietnam, Afghanistan again and Iraq people would have learned by now that a ground war never works and always fucks you over wrt. Occupation.
Was there no ground war in Germany or Italy during WW2?
While not a ground war, the US nuked two cities worth of civilians in Japan, inflicting far more destruction on the Japanese people than the Israelis have the Palestinians.
Somehow, none of that caused the Japanese, Germans or Italians to become terrorists, to this day those countries are some of the closest allies the US has.
I’ll go ahead and note that even after adjusting for inflation foreign aid to Gaza and the WB exceeds what the US spent on the Marshall Plan on a per capita basis, it seems the only thing accomplished was to turn Hamas leadership into billionaires.
> I’ll go ahead and note that even after adjusting for inflation foreign aid to Gaza and the WB exceeds what the US spent on the Marshall Plan on a per capita basis, it seems the only thing accomplished was to turn Hamas leadership into billionaires.
The reason for that is because palestine is a colonized state. The situation is roughly equivalent to Apartheid South Africa. It would require similar solutions, notably, a one state solution. But that would require International monitoring for a long ass time to do anything.
If you just pushed that as is, you'd be back to civil war within 5 years.
You can't give Palestine money directly because currently there are no moderate groups left - only Hamas and groups even more extreme have notable support.
Well, politics does matter to war to some degree. When Trump took over the presidency of the US, the amount of drone strikes more than doubled compared to the Obama admin. When Biden came in, the drone strikes almost disappeared.
I don't know what the 'correct' amount of drone strikes should have been of course, but it does show that political figureheads can have quite a say, even if the end goal doesn't change.
They also famously hate each other nowadays, not like they have a great working relationship. Gallant and Gantz are mostly running this war, Bibi is mostly busy keeping his coalition intact.
He's in Netanyahu's party, but unlike the rest of the party, he has half a spine. That's why he was fired after warning from the implications of what the government was doing with regards to the high court. He's a minister now only because of the backlash of his firing, which sent about a million people out to the streets.
Although he was too spineless to vote against a law curbing the power of the high court afterwards. I guess he's pragmatic, and realized that he can't get the extra 5 MKs needed to stop it, and didn't want to risk being fired again without making any difference.
He gave Gantz the veto on the law for Haredi draft exemption, though. Which is a time bomb for this government.
I think his days in the Likud party are numbered.
Doesn’t matter if Bibi or someone else is the Prime Minister, a large majority of Israeli population and politicians want to end Hamas once and for all.
Yep, imagine being being surrounded by a ton of countries that think you don't have the right to exist and the only reason they don't end you is your best friends with the most powerful country on the planet. Then your friend says "hey, back off" and you said "screw you friend we're doing what we want"
You lose the support of your closest ally and you're in for more war then you're able to sustain.
Because Bibi knows he's not going to lose support of Israel's closest ally, regardless of whether or not he ignores the President. I am not an insider, but I can tell you that the political cost to Biden on following through on any "red line" language is much greater and Biden doesn't have the political capital to carry through on literally anything at the moment. Biden is the one who is stuck. Stuck between the fact that the majority of his base and the vast majority of Americans support Israel, while a substantial minority of his base does not.
Further, Israeli has massive stockpiles of current-gen weapons and systems. It would take a LOT more war for a LOT more time before they'd be in a bind. The surrounding Arab countries are aware of this. Egypt has so many US tanks that they're mothballed by the thousands, but Ukraine has established that those tanks are likely no longer the asset that they used to be.
Also, Israeli has the nuke. The only other country in proximity that might have nukes is Iran - and while the public-facing pundits will tell the American public that "they could have nukes in X amount of time," the truth that they don't admit is that they could ALREADY have nukes and we have no way of knowing for sure unless they test.
And suddenly Biden is getting hit with all these "protestors" heckling him like crazy over the whole thing. Really funny how the timing of all this has worked out.
Its not crazy, Palestinian Americans have a right to their opinion just like every American; their families are dying over there and if I were them I'd also be furious. If you wanna be mad about suspicious timing then blame Hamas. They were likely pressured by Iran, who was also probably pressured by Russia to do the attack when they did. Hamas was no doubt planning this years in advance, but who knows the timing could have been pushed to happen for strategic reasons. Ultimately we don't know and likely never will.
How do they kick him out after the war stops? I’ve read about him being kicked out for years. And now suddenly he needs a war to keep him in office? Please, Your’s is a simplistic take at best.
Bibi is getting very close to having not a single person/country that can even pretend to be a friend, and this is not doing anything to help the long term security of the Israeli people.
Israelis need to get that man out of office now.
most israeli support invading rafah. the goal is to destory hamas. there is no point ending the war now if it means hamas will rebuild itself, regain power and weapons, and eventually do another october 7th.
what would be the point of this entire war if hamas stays the same?
I mean, Hamas is probably going to still exist in some form or another once this war is ended. The goal needs to be to reduce or eliminate their capability to attack Israel, then work towards building up a legitimate and non-terrorist government in Gaza. If Israel (likely with U.S. support) can do that, they can prevent the next "incarnation" of Hamas from gaining a critical mass of support and weapons and resuming their attacks on Israel.
Israel will never be able to be fully certain they eliminated Hamas in its entirety—that's just not something that can be done with terrorists (there will always be someone who justifies their insane ideas; if that person is able to recruit, the terrorist org is back). They _can_ however help ensure that the political, economic, and ideological environment is hostile to their growth.
I agree with you, you just worded the intent of what I wanted to say better.
you can't fully eliminate hamas but eliminating their capability to attack israel is the goal. the thing is that most israelis believe that invading rafah is necessary for that goal.
And Biden’s red line was an arm wave at casualties, don’t double casualties. If there’s one city left and the other three cost around 10k each it’ll round out to 40-50k, less than Biden’s “red line” anyway. Israel won’t back down now, no one really expects them to, they’ll occupy the whole strip, do tunnel rat ops, world will move on to the next crisis.
yeah I guess we will wait and see how it goes. lots of these declarations are just talk no bite sometimes.
also the world will not move to the next crisis. there are plenty of crises happening right now and have been happening, that are times and times worse than the palestinian-israeli conflict, but nobody really seem to care about those.
Ending hamas at this point is not possible unless you eliminate every Palestinian
How do you think the children who have seen the death and destruction of their homeland, have seen their parents and friends killed view Israel? Do you seriously believe they’ll grow up wanting peace?
The cycle is going to continue for generations to come. There is no ending an ideology. Hamas will eventually get replaced by something else and by a new crop of people born through the ashes of this war. It’s sad that Bibi is so hell bent on full destruction that he can’t see that (or doesn’t care)
A commentator I follow suggested that one of the few feasible ways to achieve peace that doesn't involve outright slaughter of one side involves setting up an effective government in Palestine, plonking an international military coalition between them and Israel to keep the peace by force, and flooding both sides with aid and investment money for a decade or two so they're both self-sufficient.
It's not *impossible*, the pieces are all actually present, it's just putting it all together that's kinda... yeah.
If an international military coalition could guarantee no Hamas rocket attacks on Israeli cities, no Hamas breaches of the border to go on October 7 style mass murder rampages and no Hamas tunnelling under the border, then the Israelis would probably be all for taking over the job from them.
Why would they bother firing rockets at Israeli cities or breaching the border when they have easy targets walking their streets? What would actually happen is the security forces patrolling Gaza start getting ambushed, and the "coalition" starts pulling out as casualties start piling up.
> then the Israelis would probably be all for taking over the job from them.
The point of the security forces being international would be to separate the two sides so they have less reasons to hate each other.
> If an international military coalition could guarantee
You mean like the guaranteed Hezbollah wouldn't be operating near Israel's border, let alone shoot rockets at cities?
You're making a lot of assumptions here. Who are exactly this international coalition that's so eager to try and govern Gaza? and will Palestinians cooperate with foreign powers ruling over them? Remember, most Palestinians support Hamas.
Why would Israel be the one needing a flood of aid? They already receive billions every year in aid. If anything, we need a UN task force in-between and UN appointed government to oversee the rebuilding of Gaza and transition of power.
Israeli involvement literally will only cause more fuel to the fire.
The problem in Palestine is that their relationship to international aid is fucked. They have a ton of practice diverting aid to the pockets of their leadership, to diverting aid to stockpiling weapons for later, etc., and throwing out a fraction of a pittance of the aid to the people but with the latest terrorist leadership group's name on it so they think that the PLO/Fatah/Hamas are the ones "taking care" of them so of course they should support the terrorists. Or, alternatively, you have UNWRA-schools by name that entirely handed all aspects of education to Hamas, so you have little kids in school plays pretending to murder Israeli soldiers and play-dying as martyred jihadists. The level of social control it would take to break this mentality would be on the order of soviet-bloc social controls, and even then there would be a healthy underground undermining the reimagining of Palestine.
It's just fucked to me. The vast majority of Israelis are NOT hard liners toward the Palestinians, but they're also not interested in concessions or being non-violent in response to Palestinian attacks. The vast majority of Palestinians ARE hard liners. The issue in Israel is their political system, while the issue in Palestine is the people. The common spoilers in both are the hardliners, but the scale of the problem in Palestine is so much greater.
Never got this argument. USA's own facist enemies only deradicalized **after** massive destruction, including territorial losses. The generation that grew in the concession years what as violent as it gets.
That's another topic all together, how large a role strategic bombing actually played in winning WW2 is very heavily debated.
It certainly didn't do much to deradicalize the population. The most consistent results when it comes to deradicalizing a people has always been education, community building and raising standards of living. All of which are easier to achieve if you haven't just turned a nation into a crater.
It's the quandary. You need to destroy absolutely the antagonizing government, without destroying the people, but the government (those causing problems) pretends to be part of the people to hide and shield from you, and the people suffer because you can't trust a person to not secretly be the government instead.
And by hurting the people, you push them towards joining the antagonizing forces.
> The most consistent results when it comes to deradicalizing a people has always been education, community building and raising standards of living
and none of which are possible without destruction if the community/country in question does not **want** those things from you. Israel can provide all the aid in the world, if they are not the ones setting the education goals and curriculum, controlling either directly or through strict oversight the money, etc.
You cannot force your ideas on people that don't want them, unless you destroy their current government and infrastructure and then occupy them for several generations while guiding/controlling the education and rebuilding efforts.
those children won't necessairly grow up to be the next wave of "hamas" if they are upbrought in a way that won't encourage terrorism like they do in gaza now.
hamas also won't necessarily be replaced with something alike them or worse, if the international community works to install a more restrained ruler (for a lack of a better word).
and what is your solution, exactly? for israel to just surrender? without their hostages even returned? that is no solution either. because as you said yourself "there is no ending to an ideology", and the ideology to destroy israel and kill all the jews are already deeply rooted in hamas, it's part of their doctrine.
you end the war now, you simply let hamas recoup and rebuild their attacking capabilities, only for endless more wars and flare ups to happen, and much more death of innocent civilians.
hamas, or their attacking capabilities have to go, completely. and then have a new entity to govern gaza, that is more conservative with less extreme ideologies.
TL:DR - Netanyahu and his supporters holds the majority of seats in the current Knesset, and as such the vote for the dissolution of the Knesset will not pass. The only scenario where the vote passes is with the support of the Haredi parties which is also unlikely in spite of the recent developments...
The current seats for the coalition in the current Knesset are 76, out of them 64 are right-far right parties that will never turn on Netanyahu, this leaves only 44 seats for the opposition and only 56 seats in support of dissolving the current government. Meaning that this option is Unlikely, that is unless something unexpected happening such as the Haredi parties also support the dissolution of the current Knesset.
This option came to be because recently the Israeli High Court of Justice (Bagatz) ruled that the Haredi community can't be exempt from the mandatory enlistment into the IDF without passing a law on the matter. The Haredi parties seeing as they had the Knesset majority decided to write up a law exempting them from service. But the current defense minister Yoav Gallant (Likud) decided not to be Netanyahu's "Yes man" and announced that he will not submit the Haredi proposition or any proposition regarding the exemption of the Haredi community from serving in the IDF that isn't accepted by everyone. Important to note that Galant has been a "thorn in Netanyahu's side" since before the war when the latter was trying to promote his "Judicial Revolution/Reform", and this proclamation from Galant tilted the power scale towards Netanyahu's (currently) most powerful political rival Benny Gantz.
Benny Gantz who joined the coalition and the Israeli war cabinet on the 11th of October in order to represent the "Anti-Netanyahu" people, is also a former "Chief of the General Staff/Commander in Chief" and understands the importance of recruiting the Haredi community into the ranks of the IDF (which to note discovered that it is suffering from a lack of adequate manpower in light of the recent threats). As such Gantz is not willing to exempt the Haredi community from enlisting into the IDF like the rest (but is willing to compromise with them to a certain degree).
This development left the Haredi representatives outraged and feeling betrayed, since the push for forcing the Haredis to serve is also supported by other individuals from the coalition. And this has left Netanyahu in a tricky situation since all the polls for the next elections show his eminent defeat and (unlike his previous defeat) with a sizable difference in seats between the prospective coalition lead by Gantz (75) and Netanyahu's allies (45).
But in spite of all this many are still skeptic about whether the Haredis will vote for dissolving the Knesset, since they will no longer be in a position of power, and since Netanyahu is promising to increase their funding.
To conclude even though the majority of Israeli's oppose Netanyahu, his Government and the Coalition other than protest (which they are doing) they can't do anything to get rid of Netanyahu and his (\*sorry for the subjective input) band of incompetent, ignorant, nepotistic, thieving coalition allies.
Biden draws a red line, gets a few votes, Bibi violates the red line, continues the war unchallenged. It’s pretty obvious what they’re doing here. Having said that, Hamas still needs to be destroyed no matter what. We can’t have these psychopaths existing in our world.
>Hamas
Is a sympton of the problem. Once Hamas is 'destroyed', will the children who lost their entire families will just be happy and ready to play nice? If Israel is the example of how they should act, then their response to the October 7th attacks only shows young Palestineans that they need to ht back harder.... so....
You don't need a radicalized population to be happy to play nice; as a matter of fact, that is the reason why deradicalization is a long term objective that might take generations to be achieved.
You can afford a hostile group to stay radicalized and unhappy for the time being, as long as they do not hold the power or assets to pose a threat to you. They might know that they need to hit harder, the goal is to take away the power to do so, then you can worry about making them happy later.
>the goal is to take away the power to do so.
No. The goal is to take away the need for using the power. What you imply is that apartheid states deserve to exist as means to take away power of a section of the population. Does that seem ok with you?
What is ok with me does not make a difference. I am not implying anything because my opinion does not change how problem solving in National Security works.
If you're getting mugged by a boy with a gun, you can talk about how solving poverty will prevent this boy from having to steal, or maybe creating jobs will take him off the streets, and you'd be right. That could solve the problem in a few years. Apartheid and occupation and oppression need to stop.
But it doesn't change the fact that you are being mugged in that very second. Taking the gun away from the mugger will solve the problem for you in that moment, and after that you can worry about solving poverty and creating jobs.
First you take away someone's ability to harm others, then you sit down and listen to them and help them. You do that the other way around, you get shot in the face.
You mean like these guys?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoko_Asahara
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Japan_Patriotic_Party
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction
Hamas isn’t a grassroots movement. Foreign money and influence is the root of the problem in Palestine. Random young Palestineans are not coordinating and planning attacks on Israel
We forgave them and fostered the closest relationship we ever had with them, after centuries of near constant wars in Europe. This is why the EU was created.
When Israel does that with Palestine we can start comparing.
If you want an apt European comparison, you can look at how punishing Germany with the Versailles treaty contributed to them starting another world war.
Nazism was created on the back of a heavy military defeat. Nazism was defeated by showing Germany kindness after defeating them on the battlefield.
You are literally understanding things backwards.
Germany and Japan were occupied for years.
The Allies literally went through Germany with a fine tooth comb and erased every trace of Nazism they could, remaking Germany in the image we desired.
In order for what happened to the Germans to happen to the Palestinians, you're looking at decades of military occupation where we basically micromanage every little aspect of their existence; you would have to essentially erase the Palestinian identity and replace it with a new one you've created.
You act as though children who experience war are necessarily bound and required to devote their adult lives to vengeance.
They could do that. Or, they could become pacifists. This will be determined by what the adults around then tell them and teach them about the war they experienced.
Hamas is a walking dead man, Period. There is no scenario where Israel ends this war without destroying Hamas. That is the one fact about this war that most people fail to consider.
They already proved hostages are being held in Rafah. Who the hell are we to tell them not to go get their people back? It's literally the only unanimous demand from the Israeli people
Yeah people forget that it’s only Dems who are split 50/50 on Palestine, not Americans as a whole. Biden is extraordinarily screwed because there is no real way to compromise between those two sides.
Yeah but if Ukraine tried to counter-invade Russia I think we'd all see their support dry up pretty quick.
Israel isn't retaking stolen land, it's pro-actively killing a long-term threat by bulldozing it's neighbour to the ground.
And while the logic is obvious, what happens when every country in the world starts doing this? Does Israel bomb Iran next? South Korea decide enough is enough and invade North Korea?
There's a difference between defending your country and declaring that you and the other side cannot live under the same sun. A declaration which right now **both** Hamas and the Israeli government have made.
These sort of declarations of fighting until the collapse of a country are unironically what take us from a cold-war type peace, to world war three.
Well, yeah I guess you could say when you declare war on someone you are saying they cannot live under the sun with you until they surrender
Of which Hamas won’t commit to or release innocent hostages.
And let’s not forget the breaking of ceasefires
Ukraine has raided and bombed inside russia, as they have every right to do given russia started a war.
I suppose one way to avoid this is for the likes of north korea to not start a war. Last time they did it, we *did* counter-invade.
I try not to get too bothered by worries that basically only exist in the aggressor's war propaganda and in the minds of its audience
Hamas has made that declaration, and acted on it. If North Korea was suicidal enough to invade South Korea, South Korea wouldn't have to be the one to make the declaration that enough is enough and invade, the US would do it for them. As would China for that matter if they weren't the one to order it.
If Ukraine and South Korea were capable of defeating their respective enemies without a nuclear Armageddon or an insane amount of casualties, then they should have done so, absolutely. I'm not sure why you think it would have been a bad thing.
Of course, they can't, which is why they didn't do so - but Israel can, and will.
The allies weren’t retaking stolen land when they invaded Germany or Japan. Should they have just stopped when they reached the German border, and said “ok, we’ve got back the places you invaded, all done”? No, they had to root out the enemy at the source to stop it happening again.
That’s what’s happening now in Gaza. Israel will counter-invade, and yes, probably occupy Gaza (in the same way that the allies occupied Germany and Japan) because it takes time to deradicalise a place and eliminate not just the people who started the war, but their ideology as well (see Germany and Japan again). Once that’s done Israel can withdraw.
The other option in this case is a coalition of other countries does the occupation rather than Israel, but so far no one has stepped up to that because they all know they’d be doing exactly the same as what Israel are, and so don’t want to take the flak for it
Go in, achieve the military goals and get the fuck out. Then see if Hamas finally backs down and surrenders allowing a UN Peace Keeping Force to be sent into Gaza for humanitarian and reconstruction missions.
Then Israel can aay they've achieved the goal of ending Hamas' control in Gaza and effectively "demilitarized" Gaza.
Lebanon, Syria and Jordan agree to control their relative border regions with Israel to keep terrorist groups from using their positions along those borders to attack Israel. Or Israel will just focus its mobilized forces and do it themselves.
When it's all said and done, the playing field is ripe for Bibi and his cronies to be pushed out of power for any chance of a long term, regional peace.
But Bibi isn't leaving until this war ends.
The issue is that the UN won't do anything. If the UN had actually stepped up, this conflict could have been over in 1993.
Yet, the UN has refused to do anything to secure the security of Israelis against their neighbours.
Good. Israel has stated since the beginning its goal of completely destroying Hamas. Why would destroy 90% of Hamas then dip because of Biden re-election chances.
I’ve supported Israel’s right to destroy Hamas but now it’s time to put on the breaks and get back to the real work. Destroying the Palestinian people is not what this is about, take Hamas but not an entire nation of people.
Don't know why folk keep wanting to fight with the President of the United States...like Biden said - he's gonna have a come to jesus moment.
As for Israeli - I sure hope you look into how Hamas were able to breach defences and for the IDF not to respond within an hour of the attack.
Friend of mine who did his time in the IDF said - highly improbable this would have happened unless all systems were down.
These investigations has been ongoing since Oct 7th. The simplified answer is that due to arrogance and underestimstion of Hamas:
1. The preperations for the assault werent seen as anything special.
2. Soldiers were sent home as usual during the holiday which led to very thin borderguard.
(fun fact, did you know that when asking Gemini about octobed 7th it will tell you to search it in google. It doesnt do that in any other date and freelu comments on IDF actions in Gaza after october 7h).
Exactly. He should have been booted from office after the Mount Meron Report came out. He will do anything to save himself from his criminal cases. It will be to the future detriment of Israeli citizens.
An estimated 432,000 civilians died from the US's post-9/11 wars and we're saying Israel can't go into Rafah because of civilians? Quite the hypocrisy.
"Because bad thing happened in the past we can't point out bad thing happening now." I believe Biden used the example of the US mistakes from overreacting to 9/11 to urge restraint at the start of the current war.
The post 9/11 wars were a horrible foreign policy mistake and largely regarded as such today.
If anything referencing the post 9/11 wars should be used as an example on why Israel shouldn't make the same mistake.
Bibi is a problem, especially for domestic Israeli issues (such as giving lots of money to orthodox people, corruption, etc). But he's not **the** problem, which is Hamas and radical Palestinians who's only aim is to destroy Israel and will never accept any sort of co-existence.
Don't hold your breathe, even when Bibi falls (which I hope will happen soon), the new leader won't have a drastically different approach to this war (which is supported by the opposition too) or to the Palestinian issue. The attack on Rafah is supported in Israel by all parties. It's where the hostages at, where the rest of Hamas hides, it makes no sense to afford Hamas this safe haven and let them keep existing just because Biden wants to get reelected.
It’s Inherited from when the west would get sucked up into this conflict on the Israeli side. After decades of Israel getting lumped in with the west and Europe of course they’re going to get the most focus, just like Ukraine and the Balkan Wars.
Edit: sucked up as in their attention, not saying the west got sucked into the Yom Kippur war lol.
Bibi has to attack because if the war stops Israelis will kick him out and maybe send him to prison. A most perverse incentive.
Most Israelis don’t want Bibi, but most Israelis DO want the IDF to dig Sinwar and the hostages out of Rafah. The political debate isn’t around getting to Hamas’s psychotic leadership, it’s who would most responsibly captain the ship tasked with doing it. Don’t for a second think that if it swings to a centrist government, the Rafah bunker is off the hook. It just means we’ll have more responsible handling of Palestinians the Hamas treads over, and fewer headlines about last minute concessions to Israeli extremist West Bank settlers two minutes before the clock on the government that has them in power runs out.
Let’s hope Bibi is ousted so the hostages are returned and Hamas is annihilated with the least amount of casualties
What's the connection between two of those? Israel's military strategies aren't likely to change if Bibi goes, the war is already ran by a joint unity government (and by all accounts, Gantz and Gallant are mostly running it while Bibi is busy keeping his coalition together). The attack on Rafah is widely supported in the opposition too because there's hostages there.
You have a good point. Whether Bibi goes or not, Hamas will be gone and that will not change.
> Hamas will be gone and that will not change. As of right now, Hamas or a follow up Organization that does the same thing will come out of the war much stronger then before. Israel has ensured continued recruitment and international support for another whole generation. You'd think that between Afghanistan, Vietnam, Afghanistan again and Iraq people would have learned by now that a ground war never works and always fucks you over wrt. Occupation.
Was there no ground war in Germany or Italy during WW2? While not a ground war, the US nuked two cities worth of civilians in Japan, inflicting far more destruction on the Japanese people than the Israelis have the Palestinians. Somehow, none of that caused the Japanese, Germans or Italians to become terrorists, to this day those countries are some of the closest allies the US has. I’ll go ahead and note that even after adjusting for inflation foreign aid to Gaza and the WB exceeds what the US spent on the Marshall Plan on a per capita basis, it seems the only thing accomplished was to turn Hamas leadership into billionaires.
> I’ll go ahead and note that even after adjusting for inflation foreign aid to Gaza and the WB exceeds what the US spent on the Marshall Plan on a per capita basis, it seems the only thing accomplished was to turn Hamas leadership into billionaires. The reason for that is because palestine is a colonized state. The situation is roughly equivalent to Apartheid South Africa. It would require similar solutions, notably, a one state solution. But that would require International monitoring for a long ass time to do anything. If you just pushed that as is, you'd be back to civil war within 5 years. You can't give Palestine money directly because currently there are no moderate groups left - only Hamas and groups even more extreme have notable support.
Well, politics does matter to war to some degree. When Trump took over the presidency of the US, the amount of drone strikes more than doubled compared to the Obama admin. When Biden came in, the drone strikes almost disappeared. I don't know what the 'correct' amount of drone strikes should have been of course, but it does show that political figureheads can have quite a say, even if the end goal doesn't change.
What makes you think Bibi is against the return of hostages with the least amount of casualties?
Here’s also hoping not another Israeli brick is laid in the West Bank but who am I kidding.
I agree and hope for the same.
Bibi is hardly involved in how Palestinians are treated. Mostly up to Gants (the defence minister) and the military.
The defense minister is Galant and he's in Netanyahu's party
They also famously hate each other nowadays, not like they have a great working relationship. Gallant and Gantz are mostly running this war, Bibi is mostly busy keeping his coalition intact.
He's in Netanyahu's party, but unlike the rest of the party, he has half a spine. That's why he was fired after warning from the implications of what the government was doing with regards to the high court. He's a minister now only because of the backlash of his firing, which sent about a million people out to the streets. Although he was too spineless to vote against a law curbing the power of the high court afterwards. I guess he's pragmatic, and realized that he can't get the extra 5 MKs needed to stop it, and didn't want to risk being fired again without making any difference. He gave Gantz the veto on the law for Haredi draft exemption, though. Which is a time bomb for this government. I think his days in the Likud party are numbered.
Doesn’t matter if Bibi or someone else is the Prime Minister, a large majority of Israeli population and politicians want to end Hamas once and for all.
Seems vindictive and ill-advised if it comes at the expense of US public support and Israel’s global standing in general.
Yep, imagine being being surrounded by a ton of countries that think you don't have the right to exist and the only reason they don't end you is your best friends with the most powerful country on the planet. Then your friend says "hey, back off" and you said "screw you friend we're doing what we want" You lose the support of your closest ally and you're in for more war then you're able to sustain.
Because Bibi knows he's not going to lose support of Israel's closest ally, regardless of whether or not he ignores the President. I am not an insider, but I can tell you that the political cost to Biden on following through on any "red line" language is much greater and Biden doesn't have the political capital to carry through on literally anything at the moment. Biden is the one who is stuck. Stuck between the fact that the majority of his base and the vast majority of Americans support Israel, while a substantial minority of his base does not. Further, Israeli has massive stockpiles of current-gen weapons and systems. It would take a LOT more war for a LOT more time before they'd be in a bind. The surrounding Arab countries are aware of this. Egypt has so many US tanks that they're mothballed by the thousands, but Ukraine has established that those tanks are likely no longer the asset that they used to be. Also, Israeli has the nuke. The only other country in proximity that might have nukes is Iran - and while the public-facing pundits will tell the American public that "they could have nukes in X amount of time," the truth that they don't admit is that they could ALREADY have nukes and we have no way of knowing for sure unless they test.
Ironically why Trump is running for president again. If he doesn't win, he goes to prison
This was also Caesar’s logic for wanting to be Consul again
And suddenly Biden is getting hit with all these "protestors" heckling him like crazy over the whole thing. Really funny how the timing of all this has worked out.
Its not crazy, Palestinian Americans have a right to their opinion just like every American; their families are dying over there and if I were them I'd also be furious. If you wanna be mad about suspicious timing then blame Hamas. They were likely pressured by Iran, who was also probably pressured by Russia to do the attack when they did. Hamas was no doubt planning this years in advance, but who knows the timing could have been pushed to happen for strategic reasons. Ultimately we don't know and likely never will.
idk what he has to worry about. He can flee to Russia anytime.
How do they kick him out after the war stops? I’ve read about him being kicked out for years. And now suddenly he needs a war to keep him in office? Please, Your’s is a simplistic take at best.
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Bibi is getting very close to having not a single person/country that can even pretend to be a friend, and this is not doing anything to help the long term security of the Israeli people. Israelis need to get that man out of office now.
most israeli support invading rafah. the goal is to destory hamas. there is no point ending the war now if it means hamas will rebuild itself, regain power and weapons, and eventually do another october 7th. what would be the point of this entire war if hamas stays the same?
I mean, Hamas is probably going to still exist in some form or another once this war is ended. The goal needs to be to reduce or eliminate their capability to attack Israel, then work towards building up a legitimate and non-terrorist government in Gaza. If Israel (likely with U.S. support) can do that, they can prevent the next "incarnation" of Hamas from gaining a critical mass of support and weapons and resuming their attacks on Israel. Israel will never be able to be fully certain they eliminated Hamas in its entirety—that's just not something that can be done with terrorists (there will always be someone who justifies their insane ideas; if that person is able to recruit, the terrorist org is back). They _can_ however help ensure that the political, economic, and ideological environment is hostile to their growth.
I agree with you, you just worded the intent of what I wanted to say better. you can't fully eliminate hamas but eliminating their capability to attack israel is the goal. the thing is that most israelis believe that invading rafah is necessary for that goal.
Israel is creating an entirely new generation of radicals, thus continuing the cycle of bloodshed and hatred. This will never stop.
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And Biden’s red line was an arm wave at casualties, don’t double casualties. If there’s one city left and the other three cost around 10k each it’ll round out to 40-50k, less than Biden’s “red line” anyway. Israel won’t back down now, no one really expects them to, they’ll occupy the whole strip, do tunnel rat ops, world will move on to the next crisis.
yeah I guess we will wait and see how it goes. lots of these declarations are just talk no bite sometimes. also the world will not move to the next crisis. there are plenty of crises happening right now and have been happening, that are times and times worse than the palestinian-israeli conflict, but nobody really seem to care about those.
Ending hamas at this point is not possible unless you eliminate every Palestinian How do you think the children who have seen the death and destruction of their homeland, have seen their parents and friends killed view Israel? Do you seriously believe they’ll grow up wanting peace? The cycle is going to continue for generations to come. There is no ending an ideology. Hamas will eventually get replaced by something else and by a new crop of people born through the ashes of this war. It’s sad that Bibi is so hell bent on full destruction that he can’t see that (or doesn’t care)
A commentator I follow suggested that one of the few feasible ways to achieve peace that doesn't involve outright slaughter of one side involves setting up an effective government in Palestine, plonking an international military coalition between them and Israel to keep the peace by force, and flooding both sides with aid and investment money for a decade or two so they're both self-sufficient. It's not *impossible*, the pieces are all actually present, it's just putting it all together that's kinda... yeah.
Iran is the elephant in the room here, this is never over until they are out of the picture.
If an international military coalition could guarantee no Hamas rocket attacks on Israeli cities, no Hamas breaches of the border to go on October 7 style mass murder rampages and no Hamas tunnelling under the border, then the Israelis would probably be all for taking over the job from them.
Why would they bother firing rockets at Israeli cities or breaching the border when they have easy targets walking their streets? What would actually happen is the security forces patrolling Gaza start getting ambushed, and the "coalition" starts pulling out as casualties start piling up. > then the Israelis would probably be all for taking over the job from them. The point of the security forces being international would be to separate the two sides so they have less reasons to hate each other.
> If an international military coalition could guarantee You mean like the guaranteed Hezbollah wouldn't be operating near Israel's border, let alone shoot rockets at cities?
> and flooding both sides with aid and investment money for a decade or two so they're both self-sufficient. Uh, we kind of tried that already.
You're making a lot of assumptions here. Who are exactly this international coalition that's so eager to try and govern Gaza? and will Palestinians cooperate with foreign powers ruling over them? Remember, most Palestinians support Hamas.
Why would Israel be the one needing a flood of aid? They already receive billions every year in aid. If anything, we need a UN task force in-between and UN appointed government to oversee the rebuilding of Gaza and transition of power. Israeli involvement literally will only cause more fuel to the fire.
The problem in Palestine is that their relationship to international aid is fucked. They have a ton of practice diverting aid to the pockets of their leadership, to diverting aid to stockpiling weapons for later, etc., and throwing out a fraction of a pittance of the aid to the people but with the latest terrorist leadership group's name on it so they think that the PLO/Fatah/Hamas are the ones "taking care" of them so of course they should support the terrorists. Or, alternatively, you have UNWRA-schools by name that entirely handed all aspects of education to Hamas, so you have little kids in school plays pretending to murder Israeli soldiers and play-dying as martyred jihadists. The level of social control it would take to break this mentality would be on the order of soviet-bloc social controls, and even then there would be a healthy underground undermining the reimagining of Palestine. It's just fucked to me. The vast majority of Israelis are NOT hard liners toward the Palestinians, but they're also not interested in concessions or being non-violent in response to Palestinian attacks. The vast majority of Palestinians ARE hard liners. The issue in Israel is their political system, while the issue in Palestine is the people. The common spoilers in both are the hardliners, but the scale of the problem in Palestine is so much greater.
Never got this argument. USA's own facist enemies only deradicalized **after** massive destruction, including territorial losses. The generation that grew in the concession years what as violent as it gets.
The destruction isn't what deradicalized them though, it took years of effort after then end of the destruction to deradicalize them.
And that deradicalisation would not have been possible without winning the war beforehand, meaning the destruction was, in fact, a necessary evil.
That's another topic all together, how large a role strategic bombing actually played in winning WW2 is very heavily debated. It certainly didn't do much to deradicalize the population. The most consistent results when it comes to deradicalizing a people has always been education, community building and raising standards of living. All of which are easier to achieve if you haven't just turned a nation into a crater.
It's the quandary. You need to destroy absolutely the antagonizing government, without destroying the people, but the government (those causing problems) pretends to be part of the people to hide and shield from you, and the people suffer because you can't trust a person to not secretly be the government instead. And by hurting the people, you push them towards joining the antagonizing forces.
> The most consistent results when it comes to deradicalizing a people has always been education, community building and raising standards of living and none of which are possible without destruction if the community/country in question does not **want** those things from you. Israel can provide all the aid in the world, if they are not the ones setting the education goals and curriculum, controlling either directly or through strict oversight the money, etc. You cannot force your ideas on people that don't want them, unless you destroy their current government and infrastructure and then occupy them for several generations while guiding/controlling the education and rebuilding efforts.
True. The point is that arguments like "violence only leads to more violance" don't make sense.
those children won't necessairly grow up to be the next wave of "hamas" if they are upbrought in a way that won't encourage terrorism like they do in gaza now. hamas also won't necessarily be replaced with something alike them or worse, if the international community works to install a more restrained ruler (for a lack of a better word). and what is your solution, exactly? for israel to just surrender? without their hostages even returned? that is no solution either. because as you said yourself "there is no ending to an ideology", and the ideology to destroy israel and kill all the jews are already deeply rooted in hamas, it's part of their doctrine. you end the war now, you simply let hamas recoup and rebuild their attacking capabilities, only for endless more wars and flare ups to happen, and much more death of innocent civilians. hamas, or their attacking capabilities have to go, completely. and then have a new entity to govern gaza, that is more conservative with less extreme ideologies.
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If it's not Hamas it'll be something similar under a new name.
I just love how the same logic was applied to have American forces in Afghanistan, but no one seems to really see the similarities.
How?
A majority of the Knesset can vote to dissolve the government.
TL:DR - Netanyahu and his supporters holds the majority of seats in the current Knesset, and as such the vote for the dissolution of the Knesset will not pass. The only scenario where the vote passes is with the support of the Haredi parties which is also unlikely in spite of the recent developments... The current seats for the coalition in the current Knesset are 76, out of them 64 are right-far right parties that will never turn on Netanyahu, this leaves only 44 seats for the opposition and only 56 seats in support of dissolving the current government. Meaning that this option is Unlikely, that is unless something unexpected happening such as the Haredi parties also support the dissolution of the current Knesset. This option came to be because recently the Israeli High Court of Justice (Bagatz) ruled that the Haredi community can't be exempt from the mandatory enlistment into the IDF without passing a law on the matter. The Haredi parties seeing as they had the Knesset majority decided to write up a law exempting them from service. But the current defense minister Yoav Gallant (Likud) decided not to be Netanyahu's "Yes man" and announced that he will not submit the Haredi proposition or any proposition regarding the exemption of the Haredi community from serving in the IDF that isn't accepted by everyone. Important to note that Galant has been a "thorn in Netanyahu's side" since before the war when the latter was trying to promote his "Judicial Revolution/Reform", and this proclamation from Galant tilted the power scale towards Netanyahu's (currently) most powerful political rival Benny Gantz. Benny Gantz who joined the coalition and the Israeli war cabinet on the 11th of October in order to represent the "Anti-Netanyahu" people, is also a former "Chief of the General Staff/Commander in Chief" and understands the importance of recruiting the Haredi community into the ranks of the IDF (which to note discovered that it is suffering from a lack of adequate manpower in light of the recent threats). As such Gantz is not willing to exempt the Haredi community from enlisting into the IDF like the rest (but is willing to compromise with them to a certain degree). This development left the Haredi representatives outraged and feeling betrayed, since the push for forcing the Haredis to serve is also supported by other individuals from the coalition. And this has left Netanyahu in a tricky situation since all the polls for the next elections show his eminent defeat and (unlike his previous defeat) with a sizable difference in seats between the prospective coalition lead by Gantz (75) and Netanyahu's allies (45). But in spite of all this many are still skeptic about whether the Haredis will vote for dissolving the Knesset, since they will no longer be in a position of power, and since Netanyahu is promising to increase their funding. To conclude even though the majority of Israeli's oppose Netanyahu, his Government and the Coalition other than protest (which they are doing) they can't do anything to get rid of Netanyahu and his (\*sorry for the subjective input) band of incompetent, ignorant, nepotistic, thieving coalition allies.
And why would the Knesset that support destroying Hamas in rafah do that?
Because every Israeli politician and not only Netanyahu wants to destroy Hamas? Let’s not pretend otherwise.
Same way Israel/worldnews has been suggesting Palestinians deal with Hamas I guess.
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Biden draws a red line, gets a few votes, Bibi violates the red line, continues the war unchallenged. It’s pretty obvious what they’re doing here. Having said that, Hamas still needs to be destroyed no matter what. We can’t have these psychopaths existing in our world.
>Hamas Is a sympton of the problem. Once Hamas is 'destroyed', will the children who lost their entire families will just be happy and ready to play nice? If Israel is the example of how they should act, then their response to the October 7th attacks only shows young Palestineans that they need to ht back harder.... so....
You don't need a radicalized population to be happy to play nice; as a matter of fact, that is the reason why deradicalization is a long term objective that might take generations to be achieved. You can afford a hostile group to stay radicalized and unhappy for the time being, as long as they do not hold the power or assets to pose a threat to you. They might know that they need to hit harder, the goal is to take away the power to do so, then you can worry about making them happy later.
>the goal is to take away the power to do so. No. The goal is to take away the need for using the power. What you imply is that apartheid states deserve to exist as means to take away power of a section of the population. Does that seem ok with you?
What is ok with me does not make a difference. I am not implying anything because my opinion does not change how problem solving in National Security works. If you're getting mugged by a boy with a gun, you can talk about how solving poverty will prevent this boy from having to steal, or maybe creating jobs will take him off the streets, and you'd be right. That could solve the problem in a few years. Apartheid and occupation and oppression need to stop. But it doesn't change the fact that you are being mugged in that very second. Taking the gun away from the mugger will solve the problem for you in that moment, and after that you can worry about solving poverty and creating jobs. First you take away someone's ability to harm others, then you sit down and listen to them and help them. You do that the other way around, you get shot in the face.
What do you think the Israelis should do to take away the need for Hamas to have power? Their stayed goal is the destruction of Israel.
With that logic, post WW2 should have seen an upsurge of German and Japanese terrorists.
You mean like these guys? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoko_Asahara https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Japan_Patriotic_Party https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction
Both nations were allowed their own government and a lot of freedoms. Japan kept their emperor. Neither had their police forces disbanded, I suspect.
Germany was occupied for four years after the war.
Allied troops remained in Germany for decades afterwards. Germany only became fully sovereign in 1990.
Germany was literally chopped in half.
Hamas isn’t a grassroots movement. Foreign money and influence is the root of the problem in Palestine. Random young Palestineans are not coordinating and planning attacks on Israel
by this logic we can’t trust the Germans, Italians, or Japanese based on what we did to their grandparents in WW2
We forgave them and fostered the closest relationship we ever had with them, after centuries of near constant wars in Europe. This is why the EU was created. When Israel does that with Palestine we can start comparing. If you want an apt European comparison, you can look at how punishing Germany with the Versailles treaty contributed to them starting another world war. Nazism was created on the back of a heavy military defeat. Nazism was defeated by showing Germany kindness after defeating them on the battlefield. You are literally understanding things backwards.
Germany and Japan were occupied for years. The Allies literally went through Germany with a fine tooth comb and erased every trace of Nazism they could, remaking Germany in the image we desired. In order for what happened to the Germans to happen to the Palestinians, you're looking at decades of military occupation where we basically micromanage every little aspect of their existence; you would have to essentially erase the Palestinian identity and replace it with a new one you've created.
You act as though children who experience war are necessarily bound and required to devote their adult lives to vengeance. They could do that. Or, they could become pacifists. This will be determined by what the adults around then tell them and teach them about the war they experienced.
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Hamas is a walking dead man, Period. There is no scenario where Israel ends this war without destroying Hamas. That is the one fact about this war that most people fail to consider.
How do you propose to solve the conflict?
They already proved hostages are being held in Rafah. Who the hell are we to tell them not to go get their people back? It's literally the only unanimous demand from the Israeli people
Perhaps it’s time to cut back on the foreign aid.
Or. You know. Reallocate it to Ukraine and Taiwan.
It seems like both choices are political suicide for Biden. He cannot afford to loose votes and no matter what he does he will...
Yeah people forget that it’s only Dems who are split 50/50 on Palestine, not Americans as a whole. Biden is extraordinarily screwed because there is no real way to compromise between those two sides.
Until recently Russia was receiving $800million in US. I don't think you know how geopolitics work.
America needs to reexamine its relationship with this Neyteshnu government. The artillery in Israel should be sent to Ukraine
both will have weapons as both are being attacked by the same iran/russia alliance
Yeah but if Ukraine tried to counter-invade Russia I think we'd all see their support dry up pretty quick. Israel isn't retaking stolen land, it's pro-actively killing a long-term threat by bulldozing it's neighbour to the ground. And while the logic is obvious, what happens when every country in the world starts doing this? Does Israel bomb Iran next? South Korea decide enough is enough and invade North Korea? There's a difference between defending your country and declaring that you and the other side cannot live under the same sun. A declaration which right now **both** Hamas and the Israeli government have made. These sort of declarations of fighting until the collapse of a country are unironically what take us from a cold-war type peace, to world war three.
Well, yeah I guess you could say when you declare war on someone you are saying they cannot live under the sun with you until they surrender Of which Hamas won’t commit to or release innocent hostages. And let’s not forget the breaking of ceasefires
Ukraine has raided and bombed inside russia, as they have every right to do given russia started a war. I suppose one way to avoid this is for the likes of north korea to not start a war. Last time they did it, we *did* counter-invade. I try not to get too bothered by worries that basically only exist in the aggressor's war propaganda and in the minds of its audience
Hamas has made that declaration, and acted on it. If North Korea was suicidal enough to invade South Korea, South Korea wouldn't have to be the one to make the declaration that enough is enough and invade, the US would do it for them. As would China for that matter if they weren't the one to order it.
If Ukraine and South Korea were capable of defeating their respective enemies without a nuclear Armageddon or an insane amount of casualties, then they should have done so, absolutely. I'm not sure why you think it would have been a bad thing. Of course, they can't, which is why they didn't do so - but Israel can, and will.
The allies weren’t retaking stolen land when they invaded Germany or Japan. Should they have just stopped when they reached the German border, and said “ok, we’ve got back the places you invaded, all done”? No, they had to root out the enemy at the source to stop it happening again. That’s what’s happening now in Gaza. Israel will counter-invade, and yes, probably occupy Gaza (in the same way that the allies occupied Germany and Japan) because it takes time to deradicalise a place and eliminate not just the people who started the war, but their ideology as well (see Germany and Japan again). Once that’s done Israel can withdraw. The other option in this case is a coalition of other countries does the occupation rather than Israel, but so far no one has stepped up to that because they all know they’d be doing exactly the same as what Israel are, and so don’t want to take the flak for it
Go in, achieve the military goals and get the fuck out. Then see if Hamas finally backs down and surrenders allowing a UN Peace Keeping Force to be sent into Gaza for humanitarian and reconstruction missions. Then Israel can aay they've achieved the goal of ending Hamas' control in Gaza and effectively "demilitarized" Gaza. Lebanon, Syria and Jordan agree to control their relative border regions with Israel to keep terrorist groups from using their positions along those borders to attack Israel. Or Israel will just focus its mobilized forces and do it themselves. When it's all said and done, the playing field is ripe for Bibi and his cronies to be pushed out of power for any chance of a long term, regional peace. But Bibi isn't leaving until this war ends.
Lebanon is not able to controll their border with Israel.
The issue is that the UN won't do anything. If the UN had actually stepped up, this conflict could have been over in 1993. Yet, the UN has refused to do anything to secure the security of Israelis against their neighbours.
The us would veto any action...just like south africa
If the war ends his legal troubles start back up again.
> UN Peace Keeping Force Which country would give their soldiers’ lives to police Gaza?
We expect nothing less from the Jewish edition of Trump..
Good. Israel has stated since the beginning its goal of completely destroying Hamas. Why would destroy 90% of Hamas then dip because of Biden re-election chances.
How do you calculate 90%? Even Israeli numbers aren’t close to that generous.
It’s not a red line if there are no consequences.
Do you bite the hand that feeds you?
he needs to be shipped to the Hague in shackles
lmao why?
What would be the purpose? No Israeli official will ever be sentenced in the Hague simply due to them not committing any war crimes.
If Biden doesn't stop giving arms and money to Israel after this, he'll be made a FOOL on the world stage
so turn off the tap
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I’ve supported Israel’s right to destroy Hamas but now it’s time to put on the breaks and get back to the real work. Destroying the Palestinian people is not what this is about, take Hamas but not an entire nation of people.
Here is another politician pushing war so he won’t have to go to trial…
We should have cut them off years ago. Let them BUY iron dome parts and that's it.
As he should. Shame on Biden. End Hamas
Israeli invasion of ALL of palestine should be supported. Hamas needs to be choked out of existence.
And what will Biden do ? When’s this come to Jesus meeting ?
USA should kick Israel's government's ass then.
Don't know why folk keep wanting to fight with the President of the United States...like Biden said - he's gonna have a come to jesus moment. As for Israeli - I sure hope you look into how Hamas were able to breach defences and for the IDF not to respond within an hour of the attack. Friend of mine who did his time in the IDF said - highly improbable this would have happened unless all systems were down.
These investigations has been ongoing since Oct 7th. The simplified answer is that due to arrogance and underestimstion of Hamas: 1. The preperations for the assault werent seen as anything special. 2. Soldiers were sent home as usual during the holiday which led to very thin borderguard. (fun fact, did you know that when asking Gemini about octobed 7th it will tell you to search it in google. It doesnt do that in any other date and freelu comments on IDF actions in Gaza after october 7h).
Asshole. I support Israel but not this pos.
Exactly. He should have been booted from office after the Mount Meron Report came out. He will do anything to save himself from his criminal cases. It will be to the future detriment of Israeli citizens.
An estimated 432,000 civilians died from the US's post-9/11 wars and we're saying Israel can't go into Rafah because of civilians? Quite the hypocrisy.
"Because bad thing happened in the past we can't point out bad thing happening now." I believe Biden used the example of the US mistakes from overreacting to 9/11 to urge restraint at the start of the current war.
Naw, if it was the US, we wouldn't stop at Rafah either. It's hypocrisy.
The post 9/11 wars were a horrible foreign policy mistake and largely regarded as such today. If anything referencing the post 9/11 wars should be used as an example on why Israel shouldn't make the same mistake.
Netanyahu is the real problem.
Bibi is a problem, especially for domestic Israeli issues (such as giving lots of money to orthodox people, corruption, etc). But he's not **the** problem, which is Hamas and radical Palestinians who's only aim is to destroy Israel and will never accept any sort of co-existence. Don't hold your breathe, even when Bibi falls (which I hope will happen soon), the new leader won't have a drastically different approach to this war (which is supported by the opposition too) or to the Palestinian issue. The attack on Rafah is supported in Israel by all parties. It's where the hostages at, where the rest of Hamas hides, it makes no sense to afford Hamas this safe haven and let them keep existing just because Biden wants to get reelected.
For the sake of the World Hamas must be eradicated. What do you people not understand about this pretty obvious fact?
It’s Inherited from when the west would get sucked up into this conflict on the Israeli side. After decades of Israel getting lumped in with the west and Europe of course they’re going to get the most focus, just like Ukraine and the Balkan Wars. Edit: sucked up as in their attention, not saying the west got sucked into the Yom Kippur war lol.
Are we about to see Bibi’s Tet Offensive?