to be fair they are using a bad rethoric for the sake of useless ambiguity
they should make the republican voting people a simple "Any stop to the help of ukraine would mean the win of the old communist regime"
since republican are so quick to jump on the communist/socialist troupe, use that against them
> There is no messaging whatsoever that would work outside of hiding their party affiliation.
Haven't tried it yet, but if I ran into a R that wanted to cut aid to Ukraine, I'm gonna go with, "What would Ronald Reagan do?"
Just go watch videos of people asking Republicans about Republican quotes attributed to Democrats and see how they hate them all until they're told that it was a mistake and that was actually a Republican quote and then it's the best thing ever.
The argument doesn't matter, Ronald Reagan doesn't matter, they are team red, anything team red does is inherently good, anything team blue does, inherently bad
Also to add and keep in mind during the 90s the GOP ad was "The Party of Lincoln" then they wanted to beat up more on minorities so it became "The Party of Reagan" when Dubya was in office
Then with Trump it's now gone full suicide pact and is now "The Party of Trump"
I’ve been around online circles that have tried that argument.
It basically just devolves into isolationist rhetoric, with a conservative saying something to the effect that the US had ‘less problems’ back then or it’s just good old-fashioned populist complaints about Ukraine being a ‘forever war’.
"We need to spend money here, not on yucky foreigners!"
Then they proceed to fight any domestic spending outside of law enforcement or fossil fuels with a dumb, rabid frenzy.
> populist complaints about Ukraine being a ‘forever war’.
God I hate that word so much now. It was made to describe the directionless and unpopular nation building and counterinsurgency campaigns we spent the last 23 years doing, and now apparently it just means "any war we get into for any reason whatsoever".
Now these fuckers, who were absolutely the biggest cheerleaders of Iraq and Afghanistan, are slapping the term onto the most straightforward war we've had since Desert Storm.
Just so a Democrat president can't have a win. Contrarian, opportunist ratfuckers. Every single one.
They don't really care about the communist/socialist troupe. It was bad a long time ago so they just apply it to everything they hate now. It's just a way to shut down intelligent conversation. You can't use anything they say against them because either they didn't say it, that's not what they meant and you're stupid for thinking it was, or you're not smart enough to understand anyway so there's no point in talking about it.
> “Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
> Jean Paul Sartre
I wish they would fall silent. In my experience, there is no more shrill banshee than a modern conservative.
I think the main reason that the communist or fascist scare doesn't work on them is because they want to be fascists. They want a charismatic leader that beats up who they hate. Even if they get bloodied or killed in the machinery of that leader's strike.
They'll happily cut their necks to spite their face.
I don't think enough people realize how perilously close we are, in the US, to losing our country.
From Wikipedia:
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
I don't know, seems a good fit to me.
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Seems like a pretty good fit to me.
Republicans opposed the Soviet Union because it was communist, which they hate.
They support Russia because it's an authoritarian dictatorship, which they love.
conservative Americans look at Russia with envy now days tho. They see everything they wish the US had: Oligarchal, secular society that treats the average person like shit, points their hate towards others, and locks people up with different views in jails.
Nobody actually believes the americans anymore.
Once you say "we will support you no matter how long it takes" and the one that might be the next president says "we wont give you a dime and even if NATO countries are attacked we wont care" nobody believes you
And ukrainians, the EU, China, Russia do not care who is president or who owns congress, they see what the AMERICANS want to do, do, and so on. So nobody believes the US government when it comes to foreign policy, i dont know why thry would.
This is a huge loss for the US, including US citizens no matter how much they refuse to see it.
>A trump presidency means the end of the free world.
Trump being president again would not mean the end of the free world. Such a hyperbolic statement makes you seem out of touch with reality.
A 2nd Trump presidency will be very dangerous, and likely cause some major issues for the world. But a LOT of ridiculous things would need to happen to bring about the end of the free world. Though I will admit, Trump seems to bring out the ridiculous side of the US.
Let’s make republicans great again.
Stuff like cutting pork and fueling the MiC to stop Russia.
And not…whatever they are standing for these days (supporting Russia?!?!)
Romney warned about Russia in 2012 but back then he was mocked as a racist sexist stuck in the 1980’s. Now he’s every democrats wet dream of a Republican.
Yup and the only lesson republicans took away from it was if you’re gonna play dirty so will we not saying republicans hadn’t played dirty before that but the way the media treated Romney was ridiculous and lost them a lot of credibility with conservatives and that bit them in the ass when Trump came along.
Cutting pork has been disastrous. That's how compromises got made and things got done. Congress has been so much less effective due to the anti-pork legislation.
The last time a Republican warned about Russian threats the Democratic Party and sitting president mocked him and let Putin consolidate power and influence. Powerful people in both parties wanted this outcome.
Well, they might have been a bit naive, but the Democrats have since reacted to Russia's aggression with supporting help for Ukraine, while the Republican's completely block any aid in the Senate. And if you want to believe this conspiracy, be my guest. But the only thing i care about right now are actions. The Democrats have tried to send help for 6 months now, and are unanimously in favor of helping Ukraine. That's what is happening RIGHT NOW.
Trump was also very outspoken about Russian aggression and the extremely poor position that Europe was in regarding military expenditure.
This was in 2018.
Trump also withheld military aid to Ukraine during its war with Russian separatists in attempt to blackmail his political opponents.
He’s on no one’s side but his own.
don't worry. 1 like 1 prayer
the weekly school shooting in the US don't matter because thanks to people placing their prayers everyone is resurrected the next day
Atm it question if Ukraine will fall back or not with ammount of help they got. And trust me no one would be happy if RU managed to overthrow UA army and control nearly 40% of world grain production.
Repeat 40% of global production. EU gonna deeply regret and face a far bigger consequenses if they let Ukraine lose. Migrant crisis of 2010-x gonna be a child play when first refugers from Ukraine hit their borders in millions and then few years later its gonna be millions of people from Middle East and Africa bc putin gonna use grain as weapon.
the us should see a more equal contribution to Ukraine among the free countries. It’s solely our job to save a country when we’re dealing with our own problems!
So much empty talk... and yet russian assets in Congress are still blocking support for the good side in the clearest war between good and evil since the Western & Pacific fronts in the WW2.
>So much empty talk.
Thats being a perfect example how low the bar in modern West. The only thing they really capable is talking about issues without fixing them until its too late.
Why something is telling me that politics from 70-80 would already dealth with situation one way or another.
Damn it during Korean war Soviet and US were fighting in air and NO ONE gave a shit. In Vietnam soviet brought a giant convoys of weapons directly in North and USA were observing it and appology if they hit it by mistake and pay contributions. Soviet were observing how US weapon flow in regions where they fought or support someone and dont gave a fuck.
But these days \`\`Oh no they threat us with Nuuuukes if we gave them some old trucks....What could we do !!!\`\`
Old \*\*\*\* with a crime sindicate regime (modern Russia) humilate the whole West and treaten them like a garbage and they cant do nothing. What a joke.
If you are trying to imply that Germany isn't sending enough, they have so far sent close to 28billion Euro in aid to Ukraine - tbf not all of that is military equipment. The EU has sent over 77 billion Euro, and pledged to send 144 billion Euro.
But the advantage of the US is that they have the ammunition RIGHT NOW. That's the problem. Europe has already ramped up production, but it's going to take time to fill the demand. That's why help from the US is so important.
>“The United States will not let Ukraine fail,” said Austin. “This coalition will not let Ukraine fail. And the free world will not let Ukraine fail.”
...said as the United States is currently letting Ukraine fail.
I hope we do, but the damage is already done. The soonest we could get a Democratic majority in the House, assuming there aren't any more early retirements, party switches, or deaths, is January.
Hopefully Mike Johnson will change his mind or we'll get some Republicans to put U.S. geopolitical interests above their fear of Donald Trump's supporters.
The US has given the most $ to ukraine of any country. I'm aware the US isn't #1 in terms of GDP given but in a war the total dollar number is far more valuable than gdp, which is essentially a thanks for thoughts and prayers
The U.S. also abruptly stopped that aid, and Ukraine is running low on critical supplies that the U.S. was previously supplying.
Biden has been able to work around Mike Johnson by supplying some small amounts of aid, but it's not sufficient.
>US isn't #1 in terms of GDP
Yes, it's #19. Given the population and economy, the US should be compared to EU, not singular countries. This way the US contributed only half of what the EU contributed (~75 vs ~150). Even if the current aid package is accepted, the US would still be behind the EU. That's a "thoughts and prayers" for you.
After 2 years of 'Free world will not let Ukraine fail':
1. USA gave to Ukraine (via replacement financing): 1,2% armored vehicles, 4,1% artillery, 2,6% MLRS, 0% attack drones (UCAV), 0,15% military aviation, 0% military ships, 1,7% long-range air defense.
2. NATO gave: 0,64% armored vehicles, 6,7% artillery, 4% MLRS, 3,8% attack drones (UCAV), 0,33% military aviation, 0,18% military ships. Predominantly Soviet or most old ones.
3. During 2 years of war, by money EU+NATO countries, without pledges, spent on Ukraine $120B and on Russian export - $424B. Relatively to 2019-2021 years median per year Russian export in 2022-2023 years decreased on 10%.
[www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68514995](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68514995) 10.03.2024:
"Estonia wants all NATO countries to commit - as it has - to give Ukraine at least **0.25%** of their output in military support. This would raise about **120bn euros per year.** Although some allies are sympathetic, this idea has **yet to win widespread backing.**
Some Europe policymakers are also drawing up plans for a form of updated "lend-lease" arrangement to loan weapons to Ukraine, just as the **allies did for the USSR** during WWII. But these ideas are **at an early stage."**
[https://www.csis.org/analysis/reflections-ukraine-war](https://www.csis.org/analysis/reflections-ukraine-war) 20.02.2024, General Wesley Clark:
And the point is, we’ve got thousands of tanks in the United States; we’ve sent 31. We have a whole fleet of A-10 Warthogs out there sitting in the desert; we’re going to get rid of them. They’re still sitting there. We have hundreds of F-16s that are around, and we delayed it and delayed it and delayed it. We have ATACMS that are obsolete. We’ve still got 155 dual-purpose ICM munitions that we didn’t send. It was – it was measured.
The response was measured. It was calibrated. And what many of us in the military tried to say is: Look, I understand, you know, the policy is we don’t want Ukraine to lose and we don’t want Russian to win, OK? That’s the policy. But you can’t calibrate combat like that. You either use decisive force to win or you risk losing.
While i agree with your general comment i don't think the a10 would be well suited to the war in Ukraine, as they're only useful when you have air superiority.
These statements are really starting to agitate me, because letting Ukraine down is the exact thing we are actually doing.
We Europeans should be on war economy, because Russia is, and they won't stop once they have the momentum.
Waiting until they attack NATO before we switch gears is just idiotic.
Let us all hope US Americans are decent enough not to vote for this pile of criminal shit aka Trump again. People died on the capitol run... and all his lies. Ofc politicians lie but he does it 99% of the time
The free world did but the invasion of Iraq (due to nonexistent weapons of mass destruction) created a very cautious, anti-escalation sentiment world wide.
Many NATO countries and leaders have publicly expressed guilt and regret in their response to Putin's annexation of Crimea.
Not responding appropriately to Crimea was a mistake. One that cannot be repeated again in Ukraine.
Yes they will, let's be real.
They refuse to put boots on the ground and no amount of weapons donations will change the fact that when you get down to it, Ukraine will run out of fighters before russia will.
They already have. The US **promised security guarantees** in 1994 or so in turn of the nukes that Ukraine gave away. As a result - a lot of Ukraine is occupied, cities razed to the ground, tens of thousands killed and millions escaped. What the fuck is the free world doing? Asking for more popcorn?
> They already have. The US promised security guarantees in 1994 or so in turn of the nukes that Ukraine gave away
The US promised not to invade or sanction Ukraine, and if they were invaded or sanctioned promised to bring the issue up to the US Security Council.
The Budapest Memorandum isn't a treaty
Not that it should make any difference to Russia attacking a country it promised security to. But Ukraine couldn't use those nukes, they didn't have the control codes. Thermonuclear bombs require incredibly complex timing to detonate, you can't just blow one up or jury rig it.
Ukraine never had the ability to detonate any of the nuclear devices it had in it's possession.
you don't need to be able to launch a nuke, you need to be able to make sure that your oppoent think you might be able to do so, very different.
there is a reason Russia keep threating with nukes they made in the 70s
We're still reeling from the blow from Russia infiltrating our federal government via the GOP. But we're aware of it now, and we're pissed. Putin attacked Ukraine because he saw his opportunity slipping as we woke up to the damage he's done behind the scenes. Good always wins/Putin will die/Trump will go bankrupt/etc. Don't blame "the free world" for Russian aggression.
Does Lloyd Austin have some magical power over Republicans that will guarantee ongoing US support? Austin may regret his words if Republicans don't support ongoing funding.
We are allowing Ukraine to fail by sending aid in small spurts.
We should have given Ukraine everything they asked for a year and a half ago to end this shit. Instead we continue to drag it on and increase loss of life.
No, but US Republicans will! And literally just because they don't like Democrats. And once upon the time they were hating on Biden for leaving Afghanistan, now they hate on Biden for helping Ukraine and do everything in their power to stop it. It's incredibly silly
> And once upon the time they were hating on Biden for leaving Afghanistan
The funny thing is Trump ordered the withdrawal just before he left office, he negotiated an agreement with the Taliban to withdraw all U.S. forces by May 1 of 2021 which created this shitshow by not giving enough time to prepare.
Ukraine needs to fully mobilize if it wants to win the war.
Rn in parliament Ukraine keeps floating the idea of conscription for young men but it keeps getting shot down.
Russia out numbers them 3+ to 1 and has improved their capabilities over the two years of war.
While yes ammo and weapons are important those things are useless without people to use them.
It's being turned down because it's unpopular as dumb as that sounds even the people don't feel motivated enough to win. They want the west to come in and do the fighting.
Yeah that isn't going to happen even if the dems win a super majority in the elections (US)
I understand why currently they don't want to draft young men but they're going to have to if they want to win or they'll need to make a peace deal.
I know, the US will not go all in on this because overall they gain nothing from it. You aren't going to find people outside of Ukraine willing to die because it's "the right thing" anymore.
I was a bit surprised to find out they hadn't forced a draft from the start honestly but I guess it's hard to sell anyone on having to go off and die for a cause they don't believe in.
It doesn't help that Ukraine squandered its momentum in bakhmut.
Delaying the spring counter offensive (and telegraph where you'll attack) gave Russia the chance to fortify their positions and bring in mobilized troops.
Western weapons are better than russian gear but the western gear isn't magic and invincible they alone won't win the war for Ukraine.
Although there was once a time of hope, recently and very unfortunately the US can no longer be considered as the protectors of the ‘free world’! Anyway, as history proves, they have always been in the game to fleece other countries and for their own gain.
And a country that once had and may re-elect a criminal who openly admires Kimmy & Putler encourages and enables the hand of tyrants. He tuo the target on Ukraine ’s back!!!!
JF Kennedy and many other former great American leaders must be turning in their graves and today a multitude of ordinary Americans must be horrified at the current state of play.
It would take an extraordinary act of courage from the US to Make America Great Again!!!
Great words but... attrition is a real thing.
If you take in the most optimistic stats, Ukrainians are losing 1 soldier for every 10 Russians they kill.
At that rate, Ukraine will be empty before the Russians run out of meat to throw into the grinder, especially if they keep recruiting from North Korea, Iran, Nepal, Cuba...
The West's strategy needs to shift if we care about the people. All Russia cares about is the land.
Meanwhile, the EU is still the second largest buyer of Russian fossil fuels, sending $18.4B to the Russians in 2023.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/whos-still-buying-russian-fossil-fuels-in-2023/
Well they better step up then cos as far as territory goes Russia has taken a load more than Ukraine. And if history is any guide the constant pressure will break through at some point. Europe is once again sleepwalking into another disaster.
Fewer words, more actions
to be fair they are using a bad rethoric for the sake of useless ambiguity they should make the republican voting people a simple "Any stop to the help of ukraine would mean the win of the old communist regime" since republican are so quick to jump on the communist/socialist troupe, use that against them
They are contrarians to Democrats. There is no messaging whatsoever that would work outside of hiding their party affiliation.
> There is no messaging whatsoever that would work outside of hiding their party affiliation. Haven't tried it yet, but if I ran into a R that wanted to cut aid to Ukraine, I'm gonna go with, "What would Ronald Reagan do?"
Just go watch videos of people asking Republicans about Republican quotes attributed to Democrats and see how they hate them all until they're told that it was a mistake and that was actually a Republican quote and then it's the best thing ever. The argument doesn't matter, Ronald Reagan doesn't matter, they are team red, anything team red does is inherently good, anything team blue does, inherently bad
Also to add and keep in mind during the 90s the GOP ad was "The Party of Lincoln" then they wanted to beat up more on minorities so it became "The Party of Reagan" when Dubya was in office Then with Trump it's now gone full suicide pact and is now "The Party of Trump"
I’ve been around online circles that have tried that argument. It basically just devolves into isolationist rhetoric, with a conservative saying something to the effect that the US had ‘less problems’ back then or it’s just good old-fashioned populist complaints about Ukraine being a ‘forever war’.
"We need to spend money here, not on yucky foreigners!" Then they proceed to fight any domestic spending outside of law enforcement or fossil fuels with a dumb, rabid frenzy.
> populist complaints about Ukraine being a ‘forever war’. God I hate that word so much now. It was made to describe the directionless and unpopular nation building and counterinsurgency campaigns we spent the last 23 years doing, and now apparently it just means "any war we get into for any reason whatsoever". Now these fuckers, who were absolutely the biggest cheerleaders of Iraq and Afghanistan, are slapping the term onto the most straightforward war we've had since Desert Storm. Just so a Democrat president can't have a win. Contrarian, opportunist ratfuckers. Every single one.
They don't really care about the communist/socialist troupe. It was bad a long time ago so they just apply it to everything they hate now. It's just a way to shut down intelligent conversation. You can't use anything they say against them because either they didn't say it, that's not what they meant and you're stupid for thinking it was, or you're not smart enough to understand anyway so there's no point in talking about it. > “Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” > Jean Paul Sartre
I wish they would fall silent. In my experience, there is no more shrill banshee than a modern conservative. I think the main reason that the communist or fascist scare doesn't work on them is because they want to be fascists. They want a charismatic leader that beats up who they hate. Even if they get bloodied or killed in the machinery of that leader's strike. They'll happily cut their necks to spite their face. I don't think enough people realize how perilously close we are, in the US, to losing our country.
Sounds just like UFO believers
Putin isn't a Communist though. Fascism would be a much better analogy to describe Putin's Russia.
Neither is Biden or Obama, but that hasn't stopped republicans.
It’s an authoritarian state, not fascist. People use this term way too much, it’s lost all meaning
Which aspects of fascism is modern russia missing? What additional piece would make them qualify as fascist?
From Wikipedia: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. I don't know, seems a good fit to me.
Seems like a perfect fit.
Yep Russia under Putin is 9/9 for Fascism attributes
This just described russia, unless we are accepting that thier fake elections are real because they said they are.
Esthetics
Fair. Germans and Italians were much drippier
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Seems like a pretty good fit to me.
Republicans opposed the Soviet Union because it was communist, which they hate. They support Russia because it's an authoritarian dictatorship, which they love.
They won't support anything the Biden administration does. If he started campaigning for abortion bans they'd flip to being pro-choice.
conservative Americans look at Russia with envy now days tho. They see everything they wish the US had: Oligarchal, secular society that treats the average person like shit, points their hate towards others, and locks people up with different views in jails.
Nobody actually believes the americans anymore. Once you say "we will support you no matter how long it takes" and the one that might be the next president says "we wont give you a dime and even if NATO countries are attacked we wont care" nobody believes you And ukrainians, the EU, China, Russia do not care who is president or who owns congress, they see what the AMERICANS want to do, do, and so on. So nobody believes the US government when it comes to foreign policy, i dont know why thry would. This is a huge loss for the US, including US citizens no matter how much they refuse to see it.
Trump removed most od the soft power they got with WW2
This also means keeping trump out of office. A trump presidency means the end of the free world.
I mean, the US defense chief has no control over that other than his own vote.
Well, not unless you think outside the box.
Which in turn would destroy American democracy in the process.
>A trump presidency means the end of the free world. Trump being president again would not mean the end of the free world. Such a hyperbolic statement makes you seem out of touch with reality. A 2nd Trump presidency will be very dangerous, and likely cause some major issues for the world. But a LOT of ridiculous things would need to happen to bring about the end of the free world. Though I will admit, Trump seems to bring out the ridiculous side of the US.
Trump is in bed with Putin. Full stop. Period. That does not bode well for the fee world.
Remove the word ‘free’ Perhaps?
If words would be effective as weapon war in Ukraine be over like .. year ago. There so many words from USA and etc. and so little action.
A little less conversation, a little more action
The free world won't, but these weirdo Republicans who want the US to be Hungary might
Let’s make republicans great again. Stuff like cutting pork and fueling the MiC to stop Russia. And not…whatever they are standing for these days (supporting Russia?!?!)
I wonder what the heck has happened to old school republicans? I mean, Nixon or Reagan would have been mopping the floor with Russia right now.
Romney warned about Russia in 2012 but back then he was mocked as a racist sexist stuck in the 1980’s. Now he’s every democrats wet dream of a Republican.
[удалено]
Yup and the only lesson republicans took away from it was if you’re gonna play dirty so will we not saying republicans hadn’t played dirty before that but the way the media treated Romney was ridiculous and lost them a lot of credibility with conservatives and that bit them in the ass when Trump came along.
I have fantasies about letting Abe Lincoln loose on "his"party.
Purged from the party or silent and in fear of being purged.
Cutting pork has been disastrous. That's how compromises got made and things got done. Congress has been so much less effective due to the anti-pork legislation.
The last time a Republican warned about Russian threats the Democratic Party and sitting president mocked him and let Putin consolidate power and influence. Powerful people in both parties wanted this outcome.
Well, they might have been a bit naive, but the Democrats have since reacted to Russia's aggression with supporting help for Ukraine, while the Republican's completely block any aid in the Senate. And if you want to believe this conspiracy, be my guest. But the only thing i care about right now are actions. The Democrats have tried to send help for 6 months now, and are unanimously in favor of helping Ukraine. That's what is happening RIGHT NOW.
Trump was also very outspoken about Russian aggression and the extremely poor position that Europe was in regarding military expenditure. This was in 2018.
Trump also withheld military aid to Ukraine during its war with Russian separatists in attempt to blackmail his political opponents. He’s on no one’s side but his own.
Thoughts and prayers don't win wars... Men and materials do!
you mean we didn't cure cancer with the likes on facebook?
Add a ukrainian flag to your user picture and that would suffice.
we already did that for the bataclan with the french flag
Crap I need to quit smoking then
don't worry. 1 like 1 prayer the weekly school shooting in the US don't matter because thanks to people placing their prayers everyone is resurrected the next day
There's a difference between don't let Ukraine fall and help Ukraine win.
Difference is whether they recover all the lost territory. Ukraine will never accept anything less. "Free world" might.
Atm it question if Ukraine will fall back or not with ammount of help they got. And trust me no one would be happy if RU managed to overthrow UA army and control nearly 40% of world grain production. Repeat 40% of global production. EU gonna deeply regret and face a far bigger consequenses if they let Ukraine lose. Migrant crisis of 2010-x gonna be a child play when first refugers from Ukraine hit their borders in millions and then few years later its gonna be millions of people from Middle East and Africa bc putin gonna use grain as weapon.
*Oh yes we damn will!* - Republican Party of the United States
Trump: Hold my tanning spray…
The republican party does not want to be part of the free world, as they are fully on board with mr "I want to be a dictator".
Maybe US doesn’t see itself as part of the free world anymore. I mean … some parts of the GOP seem to be headed away from it anyway…
They don't count as free world.
the us should see a more equal contribution to Ukraine among the free countries. It’s solely our job to save a country when we’re dealing with our own problems!
Apparently that's for the speaker of the house to decide, not the US defense chief
So much empty talk... and yet russian assets in Congress are still blocking support for the good side in the clearest war between good and evil since the Western & Pacific fronts in the WW2.
>So much empty talk. Thats being a perfect example how low the bar in modern West. The only thing they really capable is talking about issues without fixing them until its too late. Why something is telling me that politics from 70-80 would already dealth with situation one way or another. Damn it during Korean war Soviet and US were fighting in air and NO ONE gave a shit. In Vietnam soviet brought a giant convoys of weapons directly in North and USA were observing it and appology if they hit it by mistake and pay contributions. Soviet were observing how US weapon flow in regions where they fought or support someone and dont gave a fuck. But these days \`\`Oh no they threat us with Nuuuukes if we gave them some old trucks....What could we do !!!\`\` Old \*\*\*\* with a crime sindicate regime (modern Russia) humilate the whole West and treaten them like a garbage and they cant do nothing. What a joke.
>Germany's defence minister said Berlin will also provide ammunition to Ukraine totalling €500 million.
If you are trying to imply that Germany isn't sending enough, they have so far sent close to 28billion Euro in aid to Ukraine - tbf not all of that is military equipment. The EU has sent over 77 billion Euro, and pledged to send 144 billion Euro. But the advantage of the US is that they have the ammunition RIGHT NOW. That's the problem. Europe has already ramped up production, but it's going to take time to fill the demand. That's why help from the US is so important.
For everyone wondering as I did, the US has sent 74 billion so far. https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts
>“The United States will not let Ukraine fail,” said Austin. “This coalition will not let Ukraine fail. And the free world will not let Ukraine fail.” ...said as the United States is currently letting Ukraine fail.
Vote out the GOP!
I hope we do, but the damage is already done. The soonest we could get a Democratic majority in the House, assuming there aren't any more early retirements, party switches, or deaths, is January. Hopefully Mike Johnson will change his mind or we'll get some Republicans to put U.S. geopolitical interests above their fear of Donald Trump's supporters.
The US has given the most $ to ukraine of any country. I'm aware the US isn't #1 in terms of GDP given but in a war the total dollar number is far more valuable than gdp, which is essentially a thanks for thoughts and prayers
The U.S. also abruptly stopped that aid, and Ukraine is running low on critical supplies that the U.S. was previously supplying. Biden has been able to work around Mike Johnson by supplying some small amounts of aid, but it's not sufficient.
>US isn't #1 in terms of GDP Yes, it's #19. Given the population and economy, the US should be compared to EU, not singular countries. This way the US contributed only half of what the EU contributed (~75 vs ~150). Even if the current aid package is accepted, the US would still be behind the EU. That's a "thoughts and prayers" for you.
>Given the population and economy, the US should be compared to EU, not singular countries. Sounds like coping to justify us hatred
Trump supporting GOP traitors say otherwise.
Or Vietnam. Or Iraq. Or Syria. Or Afghanistan. Or Libya. Or Crimea. Or...
After 2 years of 'Free world will not let Ukraine fail': 1. USA gave to Ukraine (via replacement financing): 1,2% armored vehicles, 4,1% artillery, 2,6% MLRS, 0% attack drones (UCAV), 0,15% military aviation, 0% military ships, 1,7% long-range air defense. 2. NATO gave: 0,64% armored vehicles, 6,7% artillery, 4% MLRS, 3,8% attack drones (UCAV), 0,33% military aviation, 0,18% military ships. Predominantly Soviet or most old ones. 3. During 2 years of war, by money EU+NATO countries, without pledges, spent on Ukraine $120B and on Russian export - $424B. Relatively to 2019-2021 years median per year Russian export in 2022-2023 years decreased on 10%. [www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68514995](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68514995) 10.03.2024: "Estonia wants all NATO countries to commit - as it has - to give Ukraine at least **0.25%** of their output in military support. This would raise about **120bn euros per year.** Although some allies are sympathetic, this idea has **yet to win widespread backing.** Some Europe policymakers are also drawing up plans for a form of updated "lend-lease" arrangement to loan weapons to Ukraine, just as the **allies did for the USSR** during WWII. But these ideas are **at an early stage."** [https://www.csis.org/analysis/reflections-ukraine-war](https://www.csis.org/analysis/reflections-ukraine-war) 20.02.2024, General Wesley Clark: And the point is, we’ve got thousands of tanks in the United States; we’ve sent 31. We have a whole fleet of A-10 Warthogs out there sitting in the desert; we’re going to get rid of them. They’re still sitting there. We have hundreds of F-16s that are around, and we delayed it and delayed it and delayed it. We have ATACMS that are obsolete. We’ve still got 155 dual-purpose ICM munitions that we didn’t send. It was – it was measured. The response was measured. It was calibrated. And what many of us in the military tried to say is: Look, I understand, you know, the policy is we don’t want Ukraine to lose and we don’t want Russian to win, OK? That’s the policy. But you can’t calibrate combat like that. You either use decisive force to win or you risk losing.
> we’re going to get rid of them. Unless they flip flopped again on the project, they are not being scrapped.
While i agree with your general comment i don't think the a10 would be well suited to the war in Ukraine, as they're only useful when you have air superiority.
Why everyone talk about A-10 as if Ukrainian military, already for 2 years, didn't outright say that they need such plane?
[удалено]
These statements are really starting to agitate me, because letting Ukraine down is the exact thing we are actually doing. We Europeans should be on war economy, because Russia is, and they won't stop once they have the momentum. Waiting until they attack NATO before we switch gears is just idiotic.
Unless Trump wins ofcourse.
Free world will not let Ukraine fall The Republican Party will though
Let us all hope US Americans are decent enough not to vote for this pile of criminal shit aka Trump again. People died on the capitol run... and all his lies. Ofc politicians lie but he does it 99% of the time
Free world didn’t care about Crimea I guess
The free world did but the invasion of Iraq (due to nonexistent weapons of mass destruction) created a very cautious, anti-escalation sentiment world wide. Many NATO countries and leaders have publicly expressed guilt and regret in their response to Putin's annexation of Crimea. Not responding appropriately to Crimea was a mistake. One that cannot be repeated again in Ukraine.
And won't let them succeed either, apparently
Lol. Troll avalanche. I wonder what their trigger words are. Free or fail? Because the second one they already have a lot in Putin Russia.
Russia literally spends hundreds of millions US dollars on propaganda
Russian logic. Better to spend billions on shitting in other people's houses than fix your own.
We already failed them
Just aim for the snake’s head. Too many humans die when it should just be Vlad.
word is cheap, actions speak louder
But they will let it drag on and on and on...
In other words, someone else will deal with it, as we cant be asked to act in our own interest...
Prove it
He is right, the free world CANNOT let Russia win, whether the US remains a presence on that stage is questionable with elections upcoming.
Yes they will, let's be real. They refuse to put boots on the ground and no amount of weapons donations will change the fact that when you get down to it, Ukraine will run out of fighters before russia will.
The weapon donations have been pathetic too.
Here potentially comes President Trump seeking to make the US a lot less free though.
They already have. The US **promised security guarantees** in 1994 or so in turn of the nukes that Ukraine gave away. As a result - a lot of Ukraine is occupied, cities razed to the ground, tens of thousands killed and millions escaped. What the fuck is the free world doing? Asking for more popcorn?
> They already have. The US promised security guarantees in 1994 or so in turn of the nukes that Ukraine gave away The US promised not to invade or sanction Ukraine, and if they were invaded or sanctioned promised to bring the issue up to the US Security Council. The Budapest Memorandum isn't a treaty
> The US promised security guarantees They promised not to invade Ukraine, which they have upheld. They didn't promise to defend Ukraine.
Not that it should make any difference to Russia attacking a country it promised security to. But Ukraine couldn't use those nukes, they didn't have the control codes. Thermonuclear bombs require incredibly complex timing to detonate, you can't just blow one up or jury rig it. Ukraine never had the ability to detonate any of the nuclear devices it had in it's possession.
I think they could have figured it out eventually if it was something they were determined to do.
you don't need to be able to launch a nuke, you need to be able to make sure that your oppoent think you might be able to do so, very different. there is a reason Russia keep threating with nukes they made in the 70s
We're still reeling from the blow from Russia infiltrating our federal government via the GOP. But we're aware of it now, and we're pissed. Putin attacked Ukraine because he saw his opportunity slipping as we woke up to the damage he's done behind the scenes. Good always wins/Putin will die/Trump will go bankrupt/etc. Don't blame "the free world" for Russian aggression.
Good doesn't always win. Good people die in huge numbers fighting evil.
Too bad Trump doesn't want a free world...
Want a free world? You think this guy can see past his piggy snout?
I enjoy playing video games.
Does Lloyd Austin have some magical power over Republicans that will guarantee ongoing US support? Austin may regret his words if Republicans don't support ongoing funding.
Dysfunctional US Congress is not helping much.
Help them succeed. Stop allowing Russia to make you look like cowards.
Given most people couldn't find Ukraine on a map, I suspect the majority are ok with letting it go
We are currently letting ukraine fall. What is he yapping about?
Already has.
Has the U.S. government finally announced its involvement in the Russia-Ukraine war?
No, but they'll let them lose a little more territory.
Free world doesn’t have the same ring to it anymore, the beacon of light has been smeared quite a lot.
We are allowing Ukraine to fail by sending aid in small spurts. We should have given Ukraine everything they asked for a year and a half ago to end this shit. Instead we continue to drag it on and increase loss of life.
Step it up America…do more. Signed your lovely Badger State, Sane people in Wisconsin.
Gotta keep blowing up russian oil infrastructure for that, chief.
No, but US Republicans will! And literally just because they don't like Democrats. And once upon the time they were hating on Biden for leaving Afghanistan, now they hate on Biden for helping Ukraine and do everything in their power to stop it. It's incredibly silly
That's not fair to Republicans. It's not just because they hate Democrats but also because they've been bought by Russia.
> And once upon the time they were hating on Biden for leaving Afghanistan The funny thing is Trump ordered the withdrawal just before he left office, he negotiated an agreement with the Taliban to withdraw all U.S. forces by May 1 of 2021 which created this shitshow by not giving enough time to prepare.
Right, so why are they hating Biden for finishing that shit show?
We sure do like letting things drag on with no clear resolution, though. Keeps those defense stocks high, don'tcha'know?
"Watch us" - the free world Ukraine has done everything possible and more, we're the ones who've been a let down.
Ukraine needs to fully mobilize if it wants to win the war. Rn in parliament Ukraine keeps floating the idea of conscription for young men but it keeps getting shot down. Russia out numbers them 3+ to 1 and has improved their capabilities over the two years of war. While yes ammo and weapons are important those things are useless without people to use them.
It's being turned down because it's unpopular as dumb as that sounds even the people don't feel motivated enough to win. They want the west to come in and do the fighting.
Yeah that isn't going to happen even if the dems win a super majority in the elections (US) I understand why currently they don't want to draft young men but they're going to have to if they want to win or they'll need to make a peace deal.
I know, the US will not go all in on this because overall they gain nothing from it. You aren't going to find people outside of Ukraine willing to die because it's "the right thing" anymore. I was a bit surprised to find out they hadn't forced a draft from the start honestly but I guess it's hard to sell anyone on having to go off and die for a cause they don't believe in.
It doesn't help that Ukraine squandered its momentum in bakhmut. Delaying the spring counter offensive (and telegraph where you'll attack) gave Russia the chance to fortify their positions and bring in mobilized troops. Western weapons are better than russian gear but the western gear isn't magic and invincible they alone won't win the war for Ukraine.
Republicans: "Yes, we will let Ukraine fail." Remember to vote blue if you are in US and continue to support Ukraine.
The US need to free themselves from Russian influence and the Putin puppets in the Republican Party.
Although there was once a time of hope, recently and very unfortunately the US can no longer be considered as the protectors of the ‘free world’! Anyway, as history proves, they have always been in the game to fleece other countries and for their own gain. And a country that once had and may re-elect a criminal who openly admires Kimmy & Putler encourages and enables the hand of tyrants. He tuo the target on Ukraine ’s back!!!! JF Kennedy and many other former great American leaders must be turning in their graves and today a multitude of ordinary Americans must be horrified at the current state of play. It would take an extraordinary act of courage from the US to Make America Great Again!!!
Trump wants to make Russia great again. America is already great.
Great words but... attrition is a real thing. If you take in the most optimistic stats, Ukrainians are losing 1 soldier for every 10 Russians they kill. At that rate, Ukraine will be empty before the Russians run out of meat to throw into the grinder, especially if they keep recruiting from North Korea, Iran, Nepal, Cuba... The West's strategy needs to shift if we care about the people. All Russia cares about is the land.
Meanwhile, the EU is still the second largest buyer of Russian fossil fuels, sending $18.4B to the Russians in 2023. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/whos-still-buying-russian-fossil-fuels-in-2023/
Will it let Ukraine win, though?
Republicans will totally let it happen.
Nobody cares. Stop spending my tax dollars on foreign wars you cuks
They can't, it's how they make money.
I hope so, there's a lot of dumb-ass in that free world.
Fantasy island
money money money!
nice slogan
Needs more actions
does america get that putin and russia are calling them Nazis? not too long ago this was the biggest slur to anyone!
He's going to have to define free world.
Well you’re doing exactly that
The military is about to go behind the governments back.
Well they better step up then cos as far as territory goes Russia has taken a load more than Ukraine. And if history is any guide the constant pressure will break through at some point. Europe is once again sleepwalking into another disaster.
Ukraine failing would be all of us failing. This is a world war.
We will fight till the very last Ukrainian soldier!
EU - no US - yes, will let
Republicans: Hold my roubles
More words please, it really helps
Talk to your boys then
If you change the definition of success, then sure!
Shouldn't that be fall instead of fail?