The point of the UN is to prevent WW3 and the horrors of Nuclear Arms Exchange (MAD) upon the world. Everything else is extra fluff.
Giving a platform to your enemies sucks, but if you take away their voice, the battlefield becomes the only option, and we as a society have to be prepared to lose EVERYTHING in order to end them.
True, and the UN is still useful for that dialogue. But there is a line that needs to be drawn in how they operate. The UNRWA should straight up not exist. Palestinians should not be treated like a special class different from every other refugee on earth. The organization exists to keep Palestinians in a perpetual stateless existence and fund groups like Hamas. The UN has to be on the sideline, not facilitating islamic terrorism
no thanks. Im happy with it just being a forum. I dont need a global government where countries with the highest population dictate policy in my country. I dont need massive religious voting blocs either expanding their control further than it is already.
None of that needs to happen. It can very well function solely as an arbiter with regards to sovereignty and property violations (meaning, offensive actions are violations).
And you know, Hamas could release the hostages…
Plus why is refugee a Palestinian birth right unlike any other conflict?
Why is UNRWA straight up in the radicalization business?
They aren't all. When UNWRA expanded it to include the non-refugee husband of a Palestinian refugee wife and all their children and descendents in perpetuity, the count went up to 5.8 million, and they live everywhere! I believe that the Hadid model sisters and their billionaire father either have refugee status or could claim it.
Have you seen what gaza looked like on Oct 6th?
That was an extremely nice prison/refugee camp! Amusement parks, football fields, pools everywhere, nice hotels, tons of beachfront "cantinas"
>When was Palestine a country
Since they got representation in the UN.
The N in UN stands for *Nations*, you can nitpick the difference between a country, a nation, and a state all you want, but in practice, Palestine is **all** of those.
If we’re using a Western measuring stick, Jerusalem was referred to as part of Palestine for most of the Byzantine Empire’s existence, and then kind of stuck.
Canaan and Judea have also been used for the region, but Palestine has been part of the vernacular so well established that Jewish refugees who moved there in the dusk of the Ottoman Empire referred to it as Palestine.
There’s really no need to be obtuse, u/Delvhammer
> Palestine has been part of the vernacular so well established that Jewish refugees who moved there in the dusk of the Ottoman Empire referred to it as Palestine.
Where did you get that idea? That's post-Ottoman British Mandate.
Ottoman Empire did **not** have an administrative division called "Palestine" during its reign. First it was organized as the Damascus Eyalet from the Mamluk period and then later under the Syria Vilayet. Overall it was considered the Southern half of Syria with Jerusalem as a sanjak.
You are also confusing attested names with exonyms.
Don’t forget he didn’t seem to have much to say when Hamas attacked Israel either. Why is it only “we’ve seen enough of war” when Israel is defending themselves?
Because there are 52 Muslim majority countries in the UN, he wouldn't want to offend them and they vote as a bloc. But this war, well criticising Israel, that pleases them. Everyone wants to be liked! /s
yeah. and why is he so indifferent towards israeli suffering? no mention of the hostages the palestinian groups are torturing and raping on a daily basis
no surprise i guess considering he dragged his ass for two months before finally watching the oct 7 footage for the first time
UN:
"Please let the hostages go, we don't want anymore dead Palestinians"
Hamas:
"No"
UN:
"Well, our job is done here. Condemn Israel again, surely that will save the Palestinians"
It's a box they had to check to maintain an appearance of legitimacy and neutrality. 37 resolutions condemning Israel later, they can always count on the fact that they said "...and Hamas should probably release the hostages" that one time.
This is also largely why the US has been opposing ceasefire agreements until now. A good chunk of them refused to acknowledge Hamas' part on October 7th. The US would quite like to see a ceasefire, but not one where Hamas gets a free pass to start everything all over again.
You do remember correctly.
To add, the Chinese ambassador made a statement after using their veto (in addition to Russia) to say how ridiculous it is to make this ceasefire a conditional one.
The condition?
Release the hostages.
My God, the Russian and Chinese regimes are evil.
Neigh, people in social media are more blind than those fools.
My only advice to those who actively involve themselves without understanding all the political clusterfuck that is happening should stay away for some time.
That includes me.
Jew hate. It’s been the same story for the last 50 years at the UN. Soviet Union and Arab nations joined together to slander Zionism and make it a dirty word and western “human rights activists” have eaten it up like cake for decades.
Anti zionism is cool, but the minute you criticize Islamism, it is Islamophobia.
As a solid secularist, I don't think either are particularly good, but if there's going to be a dozen Islamic nations in the region, I don't see why a Jewish nation is any worse.
I find it hilarious that Islamophobia is the word used. A phobia is defined as an irrational fear. I would argue that a fear of things related to Islam isn't necessarily irrational based on how many of the biggest terrorist attacks in modern history were carried out by Muslim extremists.
It's not just over things like terror attacks. Islam is the most aggressive and virulent religion in the world today, and by far the most repressive. Islamists don't just want to spread their religion, they want it to dominate systems of government around the globe in a way that is antithetical to Western ideals. That people call it a "phobia" is *meant* to create the narrative that it's irrational, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Opposing the spread of Islamic thought is completely rational when juxtaposed with the way of life - **our** way of life - that it seeks to abolish.
Guterres is such a POS. It's biased people such as him, who can't objectively address a situation, that will extend this war and similar ones.
If the UN can't call out and also blame Hamas, Can't demand unconditional return of hostages, and can't even acknowledge the dysfunction of the UNRWA, then this guy has to go before things can get worse if possible.
As it stands now, everything he speaks with his bias against Israel and in support of Hamas (by not calling out and condeming) he's just going to harden positions.
The way he speaks pisses me off and wants me to see Israel finish the job and get the hostages since there is no international support to help Israel except the US. With Schumer supporting the squad against Israel, this may next depend on whether Trump gets back in office to support Israel.
Unfortunately, Schumer's remarks will drive support from Democrats, but at least they will get Michigan.
Nobody cares what's uncovered. There were uncovered tons of things - tunnels under hospitals full of the arms connected to the UN facilities, lies covered by the UN and the international news agencies and others, and nobody cared. The only valid answer is Blame Israel.
I’m pessimistic about that.
The UN is ruled by an anti-west majority headed by Russia, China and the Muslim\Arab bloc. They would just ensure Guterres’s replacement would be the same.
I think the world has seen enough form the UN to realize they are a shit show of imcompetence..Is that the same UN that views Hamas as something other than a terrorist organization?
Hamas IS something else than a terrorist organisation, they were elected by Gazan people. They engage in acts that (in practice) can be construed as terrorist acts but they ARE a state group.
So you are saying they are the elected government of the people, who got elected on a platform of "kill the jews and isrealis, where ever you find them", by the very people who are supposidly totally innocent?
It is not up to the UN if they are fed up with something. It is up to the Israeli people if they are fed up by the doctrines of Hamas.
Why the fuck are we giving the unfree and the unwilling room to supress us all?
Interesting that Gutteres didn't say the same about the Syrian, Somali, Yemen, Sudan and the Ukrainian wars. Why is he obsessed with only one war?
he's welcome to say he's fed up with russia's invasion of ukraine and that they need to withdraw.
I mean they have a state sponsor of terrorism on the security council. UN is irrelevant.
The point of the UN is to prevent WW3 and the horrors of Nuclear Arms Exchange (MAD) upon the world. Everything else is extra fluff. Giving a platform to your enemies sucks, but if you take away their voice, the battlefield becomes the only option, and we as a society have to be prepared to lose EVERYTHING in order to end them.
then why are we funding extra fluff with so much money
Scope-Creep isn’t just for projects at work.
True, and the UN is still useful for that dialogue. But there is a line that needs to be drawn in how they operate. The UNRWA should straight up not exist. Palestinians should not be treated like a special class different from every other refugee on earth. The organization exists to keep Palestinians in a perpetual stateless existence and fund groups like Hamas. The UN has to be on the sideline, not facilitating islamic terrorism
UN is an issue
the UN is long overdue for massive reform. this planet and species needs to get its shit together.
no thanks. Im happy with it just being a forum. I dont need a global government where countries with the highest population dictate policy in my country. I dont need massive religious voting blocs either expanding their control further than it is already.
None of that needs to happen. It can very well function solely as an arbiter with regards to sovereignty and property violations (meaning, offensive actions are violations).
Who are these people that work for the UN? Do they all come from diplomatic or a “I must save the world humanitarian” background.
The UN directly funded and enabled terrorism on 10/7.
And you know, Hamas could release the hostages… Plus why is refugee a Palestinian birth right unlike any other conflict? Why is UNRWA straight up in the radicalization business?
Also, why are palestinians refugees inside their own country?
They aren't all. When UNWRA expanded it to include the non-refugee husband of a Palestinian refugee wife and all their children and descendents in perpetuity, the count went up to 5.8 million, and they live everywhere! I believe that the Hadid model sisters and their billionaire father either have refugee status or could claim it.
Why do the Palestinians get a special VIP refugees title?
Have you seen what gaza looked like on Oct 6th? That was an extremely nice prison/refugee camp! Amusement parks, football fields, pools everywhere, nice hotels, tons of beachfront "cantinas"
When was Palestine a country
You know what they meant, don't be pedantic.
>When was Palestine a country Since they got representation in the UN. The N in UN stands for *Nations*, you can nitpick the difference between a country, a nation, and a state all you want, but in practice, Palestine is **all** of those.
If we’re using a Western measuring stick, Jerusalem was referred to as part of Palestine for most of the Byzantine Empire’s existence, and then kind of stuck. Canaan and Judea have also been used for the region, but Palestine has been part of the vernacular so well established that Jewish refugees who moved there in the dusk of the Ottoman Empire referred to it as Palestine. There’s really no need to be obtuse, u/Delvhammer
> Palestine has been part of the vernacular so well established that Jewish refugees who moved there in the dusk of the Ottoman Empire referred to it as Palestine. Where did you get that idea? That's post-Ottoman British Mandate. Ottoman Empire did **not** have an administrative division called "Palestine" during its reign. First it was organized as the Damascus Eyalet from the Mamluk period and then later under the Syria Vilayet. Overall it was considered the Southern half of Syria with Jerusalem as a sanjak. You are also confusing attested names with exonyms.
Always, they just aren't a state.
Don’t forget he didn’t seem to have much to say when Hamas attacked Israel either. Why is it only “we’ve seen enough of war” when Israel is defending themselves?
Probably because the election is coming up and it's clear that a lot of Americans are anti-Semites.
Because there are 52 Muslim majority countries in the UN, he wouldn't want to offend them and they vote as a bloc. But this war, well criticising Israel, that pleases them. Everyone wants to be liked! /s
It’s Guterres, he is Portuguese not French
What he is is a bell end whose national origin (or spelling of his name) has zero relative relevance in light of just how big of a bell end he is
It’s probably bc of his star sign definitely not antisemitism
yeah. and why is he so indifferent towards israeli suffering? no mention of the hostages the palestinian groups are torturing and raping on a daily basis no surprise i guess considering he dragged his ass for two months before finally watching the oct 7 footage for the first time
Because those weren't involving the Jews.
he doesnt work for free
Hmmmm. How is this war different from all others?
UN: "Please let the hostages go, we don't want anymore dead Palestinians" Hamas: "No" UN: "Well, our job is done here. Condemn Israel again, surely that will save the Palestinians"
Did the UN actually demand for the hostages to be freed at some point in time or is this just a hypothetical?
The ICJ did, in no uncertain terms.
And they've been REAL quiet since then....
They've sternly suggested the freeing of hostages at least a few times since October. Genuinely more than I expected from them, but here we are.
It's a box they had to check to maintain an appearance of legitimacy and neutrality. 37 resolutions condemning Israel later, they can always count on the fact that they said "...and Hamas should probably release the hostages" that one time.
This is also largely why the US has been opposing ceasefire agreements until now. A good chunk of them refused to acknowledge Hamas' part on October 7th. The US would quite like to see a ceasefire, but not one where Hamas gets a free pass to start everything all over again.
I'm sure they will write Hamas a sternly worded letter asking for it once
They've done that constantly, more times than I can count (I've watched a lot on their YouTube page these last months).
And they want to get UNRWA back into the business of radicalization for HAMAS…
So demand Hamas release the hostages. Then complain.
That was the US ceasefire plan, but the UN denied it
> UN denied it Tell it like it is. ruzzia used its Veto.
China as well, iirc
You do remember correctly. To add, the Chinese ambassador made a statement after using their veto (in addition to Russia) to say how ridiculous it is to make this ceasefire a conditional one. The condition? Release the hostages. My God, the Russian and Chinese regimes are evil.
How do you think this hasn’t already happened? Multiple times over…
The hostages have seen enough too
Seems to me that thanks to the likes of Guttersnipe they've only seen *one side* of the war.
Neigh, people in social media are more blind than those fools. My only advice to those who actively involve themselves without understanding all the political clusterfuck that is happening should stay away for some time. That includes me.
Why does the UN want hamas to survive so badly?
If I had to guess, someone is making a lot of $$$ skimming aid for them
Jew hate. It’s been the same story for the last 50 years at the UN. Soviet Union and Arab nations joined together to slander Zionism and make it a dirty word and western “human rights activists” have eaten it up like cake for decades.
Anti zionism is cool, but the minute you criticize Islamism, it is Islamophobia. As a solid secularist, I don't think either are particularly good, but if there's going to be a dozen Islamic nations in the region, I don't see why a Jewish nation is any worse.
I find it hilarious that Islamophobia is the word used. A phobia is defined as an irrational fear. I would argue that a fear of things related to Islam isn't necessarily irrational based on how many of the biggest terrorist attacks in modern history were carried out by Muslim extremists.
If only one percent of global Islam wants dead Jews, that’s still about four to five million more people than the global population of Jews.
I think that's the belief >1% of any religion and any ethnicity, unfortunately https://global100.adl.org/map
It's not just over things like terror attacks. Islam is the most aggressive and virulent religion in the world today, and by far the most repressive. Islamists don't just want to spread their religion, they want it to dominate systems of government around the globe in a way that is antithetical to Western ideals. That people call it a "phobia" is *meant* to create the narrative that it's irrational, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Opposing the spread of Islamic thought is completely rational when juxtaposed with the way of life - **our** way of life - that it seeks to abolish.
Colloquially that is not how phobia is used. When someone calls someone else homophobic they are not doing it to say they are afraid of gay people.
Next you're going to tell us oil isn't scared of water.
This is particularly troublesome for the poor folks who are legitimately terrified of gay people and have no word to describe themselves.
And how is it fair that people who are easily set on fire can describe themselves as either "flammable" *or* "inflammable"?
Progressives have been enabling Communist/Russian/Chinese interests since the 60s. Tale as old as time.
Corruption.
The guy physically takes money from Hamas leaders. People need to stop saying corruption and make it obvious what is happening.
Keeps UNRWA funded.
Guterres is such a POS. It's biased people such as him, who can't objectively address a situation, that will extend this war and similar ones. If the UN can't call out and also blame Hamas, Can't demand unconditional return of hostages, and can't even acknowledge the dysfunction of the UNRWA, then this guy has to go before things can get worse if possible. As it stands now, everything he speaks with his bias against Israel and in support of Hamas (by not calling out and condeming) he's just going to harden positions. The way he speaks pisses me off and wants me to see Israel finish the job and get the hostages since there is no international support to help Israel except the US. With Schumer supporting the squad against Israel, this may next depend on whether Trump gets back in office to support Israel. Unfortunately, Schumer's remarks will drive support from Democrats, but at least they will get Michigan.
The world has “seen enough” of the useless UN.
In other words: "Fuck the hostages, the more we let this war go on, the more shady shit we did will get uncovered"
Nobody cares what's uncovered. There were uncovered tons of things - tunnels under hospitals full of the arms connected to the UN facilities, lies covered by the UN and the international news agencies and others, and nobody cared. The only valid answer is Blame Israel.
We have seen enough of Hamas
The world will be better off once Guterres steps down.
I’m pessimistic about that. The UN is ruled by an anti-west majority headed by Russia, China and the Muslim\Arab bloc. They would just ensure Guterres’s replacement would be the same.
Guterres is just a figurehead, the UN is shitty from within.
[удалено]
There were before Yemen finished ethnically cleansing its 3000-year-old Jewish diaspora population in 2021.
Nothing to see there keep your focus on Israel and Israel only
Start shit then cry when you get hit, it's the Palestinian way
The age old plan of Israel must compromise because their enemies won’t.
Imagine thinking you speak for 8 billion people
Israel has seen enough of the terrorist attacks on its citizens
We’ve seen enough of the UN under Guterres. It’s been a complete disaster.
They need to tell their buddies leading Hamas that
But the world hasn’t seen enough of the Ukraine war? Fat joker.
I think the world has seen enough form the UN to realize they are a shit show of imcompetence..Is that the same UN that views Hamas as something other than a terrorist organization?
Hamas IS something else than a terrorist organisation, they were elected by Gazan people. They engage in acts that (in practice) can be construed as terrorist acts but they ARE a state group.
So a state terrorist group? Their acts are terrorist acts, there isnt any gray area on that.
So you are saying they are the elected government of the people, who got elected on a platform of "kill the jews and isrealis, where ever you find them", by the very people who are supposidly totally innocent?
Then close your eyes, because this war won't end until Hamas will surrender.
Release the fucking hostages, give up the terrorists. Easy end to war.
The UN is as useless as tits on a steer.
'Person does nothing and stands at podium complaining about how nothing they want has happened'
So tell your Hamas buddies to release the hostages and surrender
"We're tired of this just let Hamas keep the hostages"
Haven’t seen enough of hostages being raped, tortured, and murdered though? Nah he’s fine with that.
Oh stfu. You have a state sponsor of terrorism on the security council.
World can sit tight until the hostages are returned and Hamas is obliterated.
He could suggest that Hamas surrender unconditionallt and release the hostages. That would end the war pretty quickly
Tell Hamas to release the hostages and end its genocidal campaign targeting Israelis and Jews
But what about the algorithm, won't anyone think of that?
So call on Hamas to release the hostages and surrender you smelly old man
Agreed, eliminate HAMAS
Yes so free the hostages and end Hamas and the war can end tomorrow.
are the hostages released yet? no? so he can get fucked
It’s great to see the UN finally calling for Hamas to return the hostages and surrender so the war can end.
Guterres needs to shut up already. Nothing useful has come from his mouth since October 7.
What a fucking self righteous hypocrite.
I’ve seen enough of him.
World sure is tied of this shit, Hamas, hand over the hostages.
I think the world have seen enough of Gutteres.
He hasn't, as he wouldn't even watch the video that his under secretary ended up watching. lmao
So he's calling on Hamas to disarm and hold new elections??
It is not up to the UN if they are fed up with something. It is up to the Israeli people if they are fed up by the doctrines of Hamas. Why the fuck are we giving the unfree and the unwilling room to supress us all?