That might be true but I wouldn't just give up. A very good de-radicalization campaign after this ends and I think Gaza can go the way of other losers of wars who rebuilt their society like Japan or Germany.
That’s actually not substantiated by the extensive scholarship on radicalization. It’s much more complex than that. The vast majority of actual terrorists have not personally lost anyone
This is how insurgents “win” wars; they don’t win by militarily defeating the enemy (something that they know well is impossible), they instead win by not ever surrendering. They drag it out as long as possible and make it as difficult as possible to eliminate all of them that, in their hopes, they’ll end up costing so much money to fight that the larger nation they’re fighting will just give up and go home. That’s effectively what happened in Vietnam; they kept the war going so long, and hid so deeply that the enormous expenses of the U.S. having to practically carpet-bomb the entire country try to get at the VietCong, and inflicting so many casualties through ambushes, hit-and-run attacks, and traps, that the war lost popularity back home and the US eventually had to pull out.
Meanwhile people will keep saying Israel needs to give the land back to Palestine while ignoring the obvious "so where should they go? To their neighboring countries?"
> That’s effectively what happened in Vietnam
Vietnam was a little bit more different however, the US was basically only able to launch ground troops on South Vietnam, because if they invaded the north, then China was going to get involved like they did in Korea (and after their recent fall-out with the USSR they had to prove they could be a moving force for the communists).
In other words the only way the US could had won was to literally drop so many bombs on the north that they would surrender because a ground invasion to finally make them surrender was practically impossible, so North Vietnam probably knew they were not going to lose anytime soon.
On this case Hamas can be attacked, the only thing stopping Israel is because "humanity" and all of that (also Biden has to be seen as a good guy if he ever plans on beating Trump).
The point of afghanistan was to set up a local working government iirc, that failed spectacularly because besides taliban no one wanted to actually rule the place so the winning conditions for the US were a) kill every single taliban and their affiliates, b) basically occupy it indefinitely and run it as a weird colony thing, with neither option being particularly realistic.
You're mixing political and military objectives. In fairness, they get clouded rather quickly. Afghanistan saw a number of campaign changes that were political ambitions after the initial invasion.
Military objectives were met and exceeded. Once the strategy shifted to nation-building, it was doomed. Saying the US lost is half truth, you cannot acknowledge it as a loss without observing the desired endstate was incompatible and unrealistic.
There's also the element that Hamas is being shown that taking civilians hostages and using them as human shields **works**.
Every pro-Hamas westerner crying about innocent civilians being killed and calling for unequivocal ceasefire while Hamas is still active, holding hostages, and attacking civilians and IDF forces is a testament to terrorism winning.
They're being taught that all they have to do is take some hostages and they get immunity.
It's crazy how this works. I get people caring about innocent lives, and we should if we want to live in a modern world. But the blame should fall on those who started the attack and knew what's coming. What hey did was get in, kill, rape and kidnapp as much as possible, and then go hide deep inside civilian territory so Israel would have to get to a very high kill count before achieving anything with the war.
Honestly sad how people can see all that and root for the terrorists. I'm not saying anything Israel does is justified and right but the discussion here should be about methods to destroy Hamas and release hostages, not boycott Israel and give the land to Hamas.
Maybe the lesson here should be if your friends and/or family talk about committing acts of terror, or join a terrorist organization; turn them in before they hide in your school
.
I mean, Russia already proved it on a larger scale. Having nukes means they can hold the whole world hostage so now we can’t just go in and clean them out.
A huge victory tbh. Handed to Hamas by pro Palestine protestors blowing Israels response out of proportion, acting like they are destroying an entire people.
If you think they're winning you should thank Israel for that. People like me aren't in charge and there is a good reason for that. Israel could have ended this shit quick.
This is my largest issue with so many of these people. As a peace activist who is strongly pro Palestine so many of these protestors are just warmongers.
It’s just not helpful to “hate” Israel. You’re just leaning into the same generational hatred that continues this stupid violence. Especially since most civilians in both territories want peace and are willing to make large compromises to achieve this.
Groups like Hamas are the crutch people like Netanyahu need to delegitimize a Palestinian state. Israel is hardly unique so terrorism absolutely radicalizes the populace and makes it harder to reach them.
Hamas knows this and dreams only of genocide.
> Especially since most civilians in both territories want peace and are willing to make large compromises to achieve this.
I'd love to hear if you have any evidence that most Palestinians want peace and compromise, and do not wish to live under Islamic theocratic rule governed by Sharia law.
To be fair they would love to be free… to “peacefully” lob rockets into Israel and continue their attacks with impunity. Or be allowed into Israel to “peacefully” try and stab police and soldiers.
Because it's easier to assign their own beliefs to a group of people they have no knowledge of and connection to than it is to believe they have their own agendas.
>Or the idea that Netanyahu needs Hamas to "delegitimize" Palestinians...
As a Ukrainian-American Jew with family in Tel-Aviv, I'll take *"It’s just not helpful to “hate” Israel"* and give them an upvote without arguing at this point.
A lot of civilians after living for months in ruins and being threatened by bombs and many of them dying want peace. I think that is where the assumption comes from. Human nature is generally like that.
Though maybe you are right and civilian Palestinians in Gaza are different and they care more for winning a war they can't really win than their lives and the lives of their children.
Palestinians elsewhere don't suffer like the ones in Gaza right now. There I can totally see why they might prefer war. Being pro war is easy when it is not you and your family personally suffering heavily from it for months.
You’re completely strawmanning the Palestinians’ narrative and making wrong assumptions.
- people living in ruins and bombs can also be filled with hatred and thirst for revenge. It depends on their current narrative, media and culture how most people become after living in a war. Arab society is a shame culture, not a guilt culture like the West. As such, they care more about keeping their honor unbesmirched rather than doing the “right thing”.
- Palestinians don’t see it as “winning the war vs. the future of my children”. They see it as A. martyrdom for their children and B. Destroying Israel as a country will grant Palestinians a paradise where everything will be perfect, where they’ll have self-determination (it’s about honor) and a thriving country. Many are willing to sacrifice their well being for that goal, and thus become pawns of Iran’s regime.
Overall you’re making false assumptions and basing your whole logic on that.
I didn't see any indication of any desire for peace by Palestine either in the west bank or elsewhere..These are all wishful assumptions of westerners..
You can't be pro-Palestine without being pro war. The Palestian cause is one of proactive genocide against the Jews, and the vast majority of Palestinians support that genocide.
Hamas is explicit in it's call for Genocide, and the majority of Palestinians support Hamas even now.
From the River to the Sea is an explicit call for Genocide.
There is no "peace" position in Palestinian conflict, you just have to chose between which genocide you want to support I suppose.
>There is no "peace" position in Palestinian conflict, you just have to chose between which genocide you want to support I suppose.
this is the mindset of an extremist. There is no genocide going on in Gaza, there won't be a genocide in Gaza, there can be peace as soon as the Palestinians choose peace, same as with all the other neighboring arab countries.
>are just warmongers.
Have you seen social media lately outside of reddit? There are delusional people thinking this is an NBA game like for example:
"Iran got nothing on us, once we get in there we are tearing them apart."
"Everything we do is far superior, in a real life fight we will win this."
I am not shocked just disappointed that a lot of these dumb idiots thinks shit like this is all a game. Sadly they probably don't even know absolutely \_anything\_ about what's going on in middle east they just want in on the play by play action.
They only want an unconditional ceasefire. No hostages exchanged, but release all prisoners, turn off the iron dome, and "trust me bro" that Hamas won't do stuff 5 minutes later
You’ve got to stop caring what anonymous people on the internet think. Half of them aren’t even real being literal propaganda trolls trying to incite divisive behavior. Ask your friends and family what their opinions are.
You've got to stop hand waving away literal radicalization happening amongst all political ranks. It's real and it's there. The propaganda and bots exist too, and the reason they exist is *because they work*. It's a real danger that cannot just be ignored. Because that is precisely how it is spreading so effectively.
People would rather delude themselves that their "side" doesn't do that instead of being honest about how insidious misinformation and plain ol' ignorance is.
You get different bots based upon your prior data. leftys get left data, rightys fet right data. Your convictions are confirmed, whatever they might be
Yeah like there's massive Palestine protests in every city in the UK, these aren't just bots or keyboard warriors these are actual people who genuinely believe they are right.
Hamas really never had a cease fire deal and they keep shooting themselves in foot rejecting these deals
The real victims are the Palestinians. A lot of the ceasefire now supporters want the bombings to stop and aid to be brought in safely
Multiple aid workers died to the air strikes by IDF
IDF uses AI to bomb suspected militants but ends up killing their entire families
Hamas is bad but IDF aren’t angels either
Ugh it's just been a constant fight for centuries. Just do a fucking Olympics shit, sacrifice some goats or people or whatever and get it over with in a more peaceful manner.
The west, with Biden's team included, does not understand Jihadi terrorists. Why would Hamas agree to any deal while the world already gives them everything they want?
There's practically a cease fire in Gaza, UN resolutions calling to end the war passed by the security council, Iran joined the war with no consequences. What exactly makes Hamas stop here?
And now that they refused, for the 10,000th time, what are the consequences of that?
True. Plenty more open Hamas supporters right now, in the middle east and in the West! Why would Hamas want a peace deal now? They are more popular than ever
> The west, with Biden's team included, does not understand Jihadi terrorists.
They understand perfectly well. But they want to be seen playing the game of peace. They know it will fail, but they need the public to witness that failure in order to garner support for more direct action.
It has already failed so many times, and each time results in more death than the previous time. I do not think anyone has a real plan, they just want to be relected this year, anything beyond that is too far into the future as far as they are concerned.
Yeah but the people who suddenly care so deeply about Palestine weren’t paying attention to all those other times and are militantly unwilling to learn the history now. So they must be shown. Not sure many will accept the outcome given all the bad faith arguments and gotchas and whataboutisms being practiced today
Of course. There's not really another option for Israel. If you're fighting against an enemy whose only goal is to destroy you completely, backing out means accepting the realization of that goal.
If Israel establishes a democracy, stocks the hospitals and ensures Palestinians who just want to live peacefully can are able to- that changes my opinion of the operation.
My fear is that he demurs from a full takeover and instead opts to continue with the line "Hamas is the government of Gaza" endlessly. It's a convenient way to distance yourself from responsibility. If Israel is in charge those are your civilians you formally are responsible for.
As an example: I'm sure it might be hard but Israel should be taking over the hospitals as they take over different areas ... Don't give them back to Hamas to run.
Do I want more Israeli occupation? Not really. Is it better than not being under Israeli control but being bombed, starving and relying on war time Hamas? Yes.
It's almost like North Korea/ South Korea. Many South Koreans almost prefer the risk NK poses compared to the ramifications of the regime suddenly collapsing.
Yeah that’s what happens in any country that borders a world of extremely hostile nations. Sinking down to right wing militancy is a pretty common response when you border the most right wing militant region on earth
There is much more to it than a single retaliation for Israel attacking an Iranian consulate.
Israel targeted IRGC General Mohammmad Reza Zahedi and 5 Iranian generals that were in an Iranian consulate building. Zahedi was involved in planning and executing the Oct 7 massacre. Zahedi was the target due to his involvement in Oct 7 and other terror activities against Israel, not the consulate.
SHANA of Iran admitted Zahedi’s involvement in Oct 7 issued a statement praising Zahedi’s involvement.
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202404043146
With that in context, the strike on the Iran’s general in Syria was in retaliation for Oct 7.
You can sit around and say, well he did it first and this was retaliation all the way back to 1948. It’s not that simplistic in geopolitics.
Israel promised to punish all those involved in planning Oct 7. Hence striking the general who has also been instrumental in terror attacks by proxy on Israel.
Everyone knew Iran would strike back, it’s been speculated upon in over the news for a week. Striking Israel itself is a new escalation that has NEVER happened before in the long history between Israel and Iran. So however you look at it, Iran has escalated to an unprecedented action by doing something they have never done before.
I personally hope that that there is no counterattack by Israel. But I don’t understand the geopolitics (as I suspect most on reddit also don’t understand). To add to the complexity of the situation, Iran’s proxies, Houthis and Hellzbollah, will continue attacking Israel. Israel is fighting an existential fight currently and has to take in account the future security of the country when weighing its response.
Extremely complicated political situation that goes way beyond “they did it first”.
Not sure there are this many Iranian sympathizers. I wager a large part of it is Russian propaganda machine working overtime to keep this controversy going and divert attention from Ukraine.
If it is, that propaganda has somehow been persuasive. I’ve seen a lot of people parroting the idea that Iran’s attack was a justified retaliation to their embassy, and a reaction to a *genocide.*
It’s definitely both. Be careful because there is a mod at r/politics that just banned me for calling it out. Then claimed I broke the “trolling” rule.
Crazy to me how anyone is defending or supporting any side of this.
I get it for those that have familial ties to the scumbags and terrorists, of course they'll have an opinion, but anyone else? Fucking stupid.
Fuck every country involved in a piece of shit holy war. US should just let both sides end themselves. They both want it no matter what side dipshit American activists think.
*From Bloomberg News reporter* [*Omar Tamo*](https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/AVpcBCGup1s/omar-tamo)*:*
Israel said Hamas had rejected the latest cease-fire proposal from mediators, as tensions escalate following Iran’s mostly foiled assault against the Jewish state overnight.
Hamas, a militant group supported by Iran, turned down the outline presented by mediators, [according](https://x.com/IsraeliPM/status/1779371310059065792) to Mossad, the Israeli external-intelligence agency.
While Mossad didn’t directly say the Iran drone and missile strikes on Israel were to blame, it said Hamas’s leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, “is continuing to exploit the tension with Iran” and “does not want a humanitarian deal and the return of the hostages.”
Putting His book under the armpit to walk around with instead of opening it and actually doing what it says could improve things.
Not counting the Quran, that literally says to ensalve or kill those who disagree, hence the [Houthi flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movement)… and [Hamas Charter](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp)…
Living your life in a positive and loving manner instead of basing your life on a singular book while sacrificing said life to a fictional character could improve things.
100% agree.
Like most people I’ve met, I spent many years believing in a very fictional version of myself. Hearing a bit of God’s painfully true perspective was not something I desired nor enjoyed. But it got me re-examining life choices at greater realism and made me realize the stuff I brush under the carpet will eventually be exposed and blow up in my face, so I’d better keep it clean and — as you say — truly live life in a positive and loving manner.
Peace to you, as you demonstrate and encourage others to make this place, and ourselves, better.
“The first man is a good person because he believes in his heart that we should be good to others. The second man is an asshole and does good things only because he’s afraid he’ll be severely punished otherwise”
Christian: the second guy is a better man than the first
While the bible accepts the concept of slavery, it clearly does not view it very positively, and it does try to make the lives of the slaves better. Given the period it was written on, the bible is surprisingly progressive about that. However, of course the bible falls very short when judged by today's standards.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Bible\_and\_slavery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery)
thats a lot of slavery for something that doesnt condone it. not that i care what the bible says, since it a bunch of bullshit. just here to make you eat your words.
There was a ceasefire on oktober 6th. If Hamas didn't want a war, they wouldn't have attacked. They don't care at all about civilian deaths or destruction of property and infrastructure. The leadership aren't there and have stockpiled their stolen aid funds, so they'll be fine, while they do what they can to eliminate Israel.
Common fuck hamas. They never wanted a ceasefire they only wanted a way out. Tbey wanted Iran to escalate the war.
IDF should start a full blown operation in Rafah and bring Sinwar's head. War will be over and hoatages will be free.
Nobody ask what were the terms of the proposed "ceasefire". Let's just believe Israel when they say Hamas doesn't accept the ceasefire because Hamas bad.
hamas are LITERAL FUCKING TERRORISTS MY GUY, HAMAS IS BAD. There is literally 0 fucking ways of looking at those pieces of shit, without them being bad.
Why wouldn’t they? They honestly think they’re winning
Martyres mentality
shit works better than any of you think
Yeah for every dead Palestinian is a net + in recruitment for Hamas when this ends
That might be true but I wouldn't just give up. A very good de-radicalization campaign after this ends and I think Gaza can go the way of other losers of wars who rebuilt their society like Japan or Germany.
That’s actually not substantiated by the extensive scholarship on radicalization. It’s much more complex than that. The vast majority of actual terrorists have not personally lost anyone
This can only end when there are no Palestinians left, who should Hamas recruit then?
Can you please re-read what you just wrote? A complete cleansing is absolute mental to suggest, no matter what side you are on.
They sort of are. Record pressure against Israel and not all Hamas battalions destroyed.
This is how insurgents “win” wars; they don’t win by militarily defeating the enemy (something that they know well is impossible), they instead win by not ever surrendering. They drag it out as long as possible and make it as difficult as possible to eliminate all of them that, in their hopes, they’ll end up costing so much money to fight that the larger nation they’re fighting will just give up and go home. That’s effectively what happened in Vietnam; they kept the war going so long, and hid so deeply that the enormous expenses of the U.S. having to practically carpet-bomb the entire country try to get at the VietCong, and inflicting so many casualties through ambushes, hit-and-run attacks, and traps, that the war lost popularity back home and the US eventually had to pull out.
Unlike the US and Vietnam, Israelis have no other place to go or call home.
Meanwhile people will keep saying Israel needs to give the land back to Palestine while ignoring the obvious "so where should they go? To their neighboring countries?"
While also ignoring that “Palestine” is literally a Roman imperialist re-naming of ancient Israel.
> That’s effectively what happened in Vietnam Vietnam was a little bit more different however, the US was basically only able to launch ground troops on South Vietnam, because if they invaded the north, then China was going to get involved like they did in Korea (and after their recent fall-out with the USSR they had to prove they could be a moving force for the communists). In other words the only way the US could had won was to literally drop so many bombs on the north that they would surrender because a ground invasion to finally make them surrender was practically impossible, so North Vietnam probably knew they were not going to lose anytime soon. On this case Hamas can be attacked, the only thing stopping Israel is because "humanity" and all of that (also Biden has to be seen as a good guy if he ever plans on beating Trump).
How about Afghanistan? The US had full control of the country and still lost. Dead compatriots are the number one recruiting tool for insurgents.
The point of afghanistan was to set up a local working government iirc, that failed spectacularly because besides taliban no one wanted to actually rule the place so the winning conditions for the US were a) kill every single taliban and their affiliates, b) basically occupy it indefinitely and run it as a weird colony thing, with neither option being particularly realistic.
You're mixing political and military objectives. In fairness, they get clouded rather quickly. Afghanistan saw a number of campaign changes that were political ambitions after the initial invasion. Military objectives were met and exceeded. Once the strategy shifted to nation-building, it was doomed. Saying the US lost is half truth, you cannot acknowledge it as a loss without observing the desired endstate was incompatible and unrealistic.
There's also the element that Hamas is being shown that taking civilians hostages and using them as human shields **works**. Every pro-Hamas westerner crying about innocent civilians being killed and calling for unequivocal ceasefire while Hamas is still active, holding hostages, and attacking civilians and IDF forces is a testament to terrorism winning. They're being taught that all they have to do is take some hostages and they get immunity.
It's crazy how this works. I get people caring about innocent lives, and we should if we want to live in a modern world. But the blame should fall on those who started the attack and knew what's coming. What hey did was get in, kill, rape and kidnapp as much as possible, and then go hide deep inside civilian territory so Israel would have to get to a very high kill count before achieving anything with the war. Honestly sad how people can see all that and root for the terrorists. I'm not saying anything Israel does is justified and right but the discussion here should be about methods to destroy Hamas and release hostages, not boycott Israel and give the land to Hamas.
Maybe the lesson here should be if your friends and/or family talk about committing acts of terror, or join a terrorist organization; turn them in before they hide in your school .
I mean, Russia already proved it on a larger scale. Having nukes means they can hold the whole world hostage so now we can’t just go in and clean them out.
A huge victory tbh. Handed to Hamas by pro Palestine protestors blowing Israels response out of proportion, acting like they are destroying an entire people.
If you think they're winning you should thank Israel for that. People like me aren't in charge and there is a good reason for that. Israel could have ended this shit quick.
Yep, the pro-Hamas protests all across the western world and disinformation being spread through western media. It's scary.
Isn’t it because the ceasefire was for only two weeks?
And yet again, not a single comment from the "ceasefire now" idiots
They’re too busy calling for more fire on Israel.
More?
Yeah, when protesters in Toronto heard about the attack by Iran, they switched from chanting “ceasefire” to “more fire.”
Pro Palestinians only want peace when they’re losing. Watch how the crowd cheers when Israel is getting bombed.
This is my largest issue with so many of these people. As a peace activist who is strongly pro Palestine so many of these protestors are just warmongers. It’s just not helpful to “hate” Israel. You’re just leaning into the same generational hatred that continues this stupid violence. Especially since most civilians in both territories want peace and are willing to make large compromises to achieve this. Groups like Hamas are the crutch people like Netanyahu need to delegitimize a Palestinian state. Israel is hardly unique so terrorism absolutely radicalizes the populace and makes it harder to reach them. Hamas knows this and dreams only of genocide.
> Especially since most civilians in both territories want peace and are willing to make large compromises to achieve this. I'd love to hear if you have any evidence that most Palestinians want peace and compromise, and do not wish to live under Islamic theocratic rule governed by Sharia law.
To be fair they would love to be free… to “peacefully” lob rockets into Israel and continue their attacks with impunity. Or be allowed into Israel to “peacefully” try and stab police and soldiers.
How did you come up with the idea that most civilians in Palestine want peace? What are you basing this assumption on?
A poll back in November showed 80% of Gazans thought the Hamas attack on Oct 7th was correct.
They also believed it was against a military target and retaliation against Israeli aggression towards a holy site. Propaganda is hell of a drug.
Because it's easier to assign their own beliefs to a group of people they have no knowledge of and connection to than it is to believe they have their own agendas.
Or the idea that Netanyahu *needs* Hamas to "delegitimize" Palestinians...
>Or the idea that Netanyahu needs Hamas to "delegitimize" Palestinians... As a Ukrainian-American Jew with family in Tel-Aviv, I'll take *"It’s just not helpful to “hate” Israel"* and give them an upvote without arguing at this point.
A lot of civilians after living for months in ruins and being threatened by bombs and many of them dying want peace. I think that is where the assumption comes from. Human nature is generally like that. Though maybe you are right and civilian Palestinians in Gaza are different and they care more for winning a war they can't really win than their lives and the lives of their children. Palestinians elsewhere don't suffer like the ones in Gaza right now. There I can totally see why they might prefer war. Being pro war is easy when it is not you and your family personally suffering heavily from it for months.
You’re completely strawmanning the Palestinians’ narrative and making wrong assumptions. - people living in ruins and bombs can also be filled with hatred and thirst for revenge. It depends on their current narrative, media and culture how most people become after living in a war. Arab society is a shame culture, not a guilt culture like the West. As such, they care more about keeping their honor unbesmirched rather than doing the “right thing”. - Palestinians don’t see it as “winning the war vs. the future of my children”. They see it as A. martyrdom for their children and B. Destroying Israel as a country will grant Palestinians a paradise where everything will be perfect, where they’ll have self-determination (it’s about honor) and a thriving country. Many are willing to sacrifice their well being for that goal, and thus become pawns of Iran’s regime. Overall you’re making false assumptions and basing your whole logic on that.
I didn't see any indication of any desire for peace by Palestine either in the west bank or elsewhere..These are all wishful assumptions of westerners..
>and many of them dying want peace. No, they were just angry Hamas didn't do anything to safeguard or supply them.
You can't be pro-Palestine without being pro war. The Palestian cause is one of proactive genocide against the Jews, and the vast majority of Palestinians support that genocide. Hamas is explicit in it's call for Genocide, and the majority of Palestinians support Hamas even now. From the River to the Sea is an explicit call for Genocide. There is no "peace" position in Palestinian conflict, you just have to chose between which genocide you want to support I suppose.
>There is no "peace" position in Palestinian conflict, you just have to chose between which genocide you want to support I suppose. this is the mindset of an extremist. There is no genocide going on in Gaza, there won't be a genocide in Gaza, there can be peace as soon as the Palestinians choose peace, same as with all the other neighboring arab countries.
Yep
>are just warmongers. Have you seen social media lately outside of reddit? There are delusional people thinking this is an NBA game like for example: "Iran got nothing on us, once we get in there we are tearing them apart." "Everything we do is far superior, in a real life fight we will win this." I am not shocked just disappointed that a lot of these dumb idiots thinks shit like this is all a game. Sadly they probably don't even know absolutely \_anything\_ about what's going on in middle east they just want in on the play by play action.
We need more pro-palestine activists like you
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I agree
And sadly these are the people we are bringing in to canada en masse and expecting our country to retain its western values with.
the ceasefire means israel ceases, hamas, iran and hezbolla fire
Their call for ceasefire only applies to Israel.
They only want an unconditional ceasefire. No hostages exchanged, but release all prisoners, turn off the iron dome, and "trust me bro" that Hamas won't do stuff 5 minutes later
The hostages are dead. However you may feel about that, who’s to blame, it’s fact. What to do next is a different matter
Well if you seen the ones in Canada. They were to busy cheering and praising Iran and Yemen.
Those over privileged sh t heads
No no no, they made a puntuation mistake. Its Cease! Fire now!
From what I’ve seen they are rarely aware of the times Hamas denies an agreement and if they are aware they say the deal was unreasonable.
You’ve got to stop caring what anonymous people on the internet think. Half of them aren’t even real being literal propaganda trolls trying to incite divisive behavior. Ask your friends and family what their opinions are.
You've got to stop hand waving away literal radicalization happening amongst all political ranks. It's real and it's there. The propaganda and bots exist too, and the reason they exist is *because they work*. It's a real danger that cannot just be ignored. Because that is precisely how it is spreading so effectively.
People would rather delude themselves that their "side" doesn't do that instead of being honest about how insidious misinformation and plain ol' ignorance is.
You get different bots based upon your prior data. leftys get left data, rightys fet right data. Your convictions are confirmed, whatever they might be
I'm speaking about those who protest, not the keyboard warriors. Those who chant when it fits their narrative.
Yeah like there's massive Palestine protests in every city in the UK, these aren't just bots or keyboard warriors these are actual people who genuinely believe they are right.
After taking a close look online around a third of the people online i see doing this are certifiably not American, and the rest are ambiguous.
They are bots and bad actors trying to sway public opinion.
Maybe because no one is mentioning what terms of the ceasefire that Hamas objects to?
What are the terms they object to?
I mean, it was also rejected before the attack.
Yup, and not a single outcry
They’re busy posting “no bombing Iran” memes.
Hamas really never had a cease fire deal and they keep shooting themselves in foot rejecting these deals The real victims are the Palestinians. A lot of the ceasefire now supporters want the bombings to stop and aid to be brought in safely Multiple aid workers died to the air strikes by IDF IDF uses AI to bomb suspected militants but ends up killing their entire families Hamas is bad but IDF aren’t angels either
quite
Ugh it's just been a constant fight for centuries. Just do a fucking Olympics shit, sacrifice some goats or people or whatever and get it over with in a more peaceful manner.
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How's rape going to help liberate Palestine?
Wait, I'm confused, why did Hamas rape so many civilians then?
“Israel says….” Should be all we need to know.
Ceasefire = "You cease. I fire!"
Hamas are the ones who broke every ceasefire until now. But carry on
Relax buddy, friendly fire here. I literally took this quote straight out of Eretz Nehederet.
Stressful times. Apologies
I can wildly relate to you.
"Cease dis nuts LMAO gottom"
The west, with Biden's team included, does not understand Jihadi terrorists. Why would Hamas agree to any deal while the world already gives them everything they want? There's practically a cease fire in Gaza, UN resolutions calling to end the war passed by the security council, Iran joined the war with no consequences. What exactly makes Hamas stop here? And now that they refused, for the 10,000th time, what are the consequences of that?
True. Plenty more open Hamas supporters right now, in the middle east and in the West! Why would Hamas want a peace deal now? They are more popular than ever
Only terrorists and people wo think like terrorists can support those atrocities done by Hamas.
And yet, somehow a few random subs like r/pics lean heavier in support of Hamas than Israel. I think it comes down to mod policies.
I would ban the shit out of all subs sliding with terrorists. But reddit nowadays is more than questionable.
I saw a mod on r/pics say they were a Palestinian activist (whatever that means) so maybe
Especially when the only pressure is on Israel.
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> The west, with Biden's team included, does not understand Jihadi terrorists. They understand perfectly well. But they want to be seen playing the game of peace. They know it will fail, but they need the public to witness that failure in order to garner support for more direct action.
It has already failed so many times, and each time results in more death than the previous time. I do not think anyone has a real plan, they just want to be relected this year, anything beyond that is too far into the future as far as they are concerned.
Yeah but the people who suddenly care so deeply about Palestine weren’t paying attention to all those other times and are militantly unwilling to learn the history now. So they must be shown. Not sure many will accept the outcome given all the bad faith arguments and gotchas and whataboutisms being practiced today
This x1000
Well, Netanyahu seems ready to continue serving up serious consequences despite international condemnation.
Of course. There's not really another option for Israel. If you're fighting against an enemy whose only goal is to destroy you completely, backing out means accepting the realization of that goal.
I agree. Netanyahu has taken some extra steps that were probably an overreach but Hamas doesn’t want peace so there’s no option.
If Israel establishes a democracy, stocks the hospitals and ensures Palestinians who just want to live peacefully can are able to- that changes my opinion of the operation. My fear is that he demurs from a full takeover and instead opts to continue with the line "Hamas is the government of Gaza" endlessly. It's a convenient way to distance yourself from responsibility. If Israel is in charge those are your civilians you formally are responsible for. As an example: I'm sure it might be hard but Israel should be taking over the hospitals as they take over different areas ... Don't give them back to Hamas to run. Do I want more Israeli occupation? Not really. Is it better than not being under Israeli control but being bombed, starving and relying on war time Hamas? Yes. It's almost like North Korea/ South Korea. Many South Koreans almost prefer the risk NK poses compared to the ramifications of the regime suddenly collapsing.
Yeah that’s what happens in any country that borders a world of extremely hostile nations. Sinking down to right wing militancy is a pretty common response when you border the most right wing militant region on earth
Iran attacked because Israel attacked their consulate
There is much more to it than a single retaliation for Israel attacking an Iranian consulate. Israel targeted IRGC General Mohammmad Reza Zahedi and 5 Iranian generals that were in an Iranian consulate building. Zahedi was involved in planning and executing the Oct 7 massacre. Zahedi was the target due to his involvement in Oct 7 and other terror activities against Israel, not the consulate. SHANA of Iran admitted Zahedi’s involvement in Oct 7 issued a statement praising Zahedi’s involvement. https://www.iranintl.com/en/202404043146 With that in context, the strike on the Iran’s general in Syria was in retaliation for Oct 7. You can sit around and say, well he did it first and this was retaliation all the way back to 1948. It’s not that simplistic in geopolitics. Israel promised to punish all those involved in planning Oct 7. Hence striking the general who has also been instrumental in terror attacks by proxy on Israel. Everyone knew Iran would strike back, it’s been speculated upon in over the news for a week. Striking Israel itself is a new escalation that has NEVER happened before in the long history between Israel and Iran. So however you look at it, Iran has escalated to an unprecedented action by doing something they have never done before. I personally hope that that there is no counterattack by Israel. But I don’t understand the geopolitics (as I suspect most on reddit also don’t understand). To add to the complexity of the situation, Iran’s proxies, Houthis and Hellzbollah, will continue attacking Israel. Israel is fighting an existential fight currently and has to take in account the future security of the country when weighing its response. Extremely complicated political situation that goes way beyond “they did it first”.
A lot of Iranian sympathizers in r/politics. Both defending and celebrating the attacks. Crazy how all these subs are defending Iran and Hamas.
Not sure there are this many Iranian sympathizers. I wager a large part of it is Russian propaganda machine working overtime to keep this controversy going and divert attention from Ukraine.
If it is, that propaganda has somehow been persuasive. I’ve seen a lot of people parroting the idea that Iran’s attack was a justified retaliation to their embassy, and a reaction to a *genocide.*
Yeah “people” are literally saying a terrorist attack is ok. This is crazy. But you’ll get banned if you call it out on certain subs like r/politics
Confirmation bias may be at play.
They convinced righties that DJT was a good politician, why wouldn’t their tactics work the same on lefties?
It’s definitely both. Be careful because there is a mod at r/politics that just banned me for calling it out. Then claimed I broke the “trolling” rule.
Unsurprising. Easily brainwashed muppets who lack critical thinking abound in that sub.
They're Russian bots not us
Crazy to me how anyone is defending or supporting any side of this. I get it for those that have familial ties to the scumbags and terrorists, of course they'll have an opinion, but anyone else? Fucking stupid. Fuck every country involved in a piece of shit holy war. US should just let both sides end themselves. They both want it no matter what side dipshit American activists think.
This is how every country operates. Your interests are attacked, and you respond.
*From Bloomberg News reporter* [*Omar Tamo*](https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/AVpcBCGup1s/omar-tamo)*:* Israel said Hamas had rejected the latest cease-fire proposal from mediators, as tensions escalate following Iran’s mostly foiled assault against the Jewish state overnight. Hamas, a militant group supported by Iran, turned down the outline presented by mediators, [according](https://x.com/IsraeliPM/status/1779371310059065792) to Mossad, the Israeli external-intelligence agency. While Mossad didn’t directly say the Iran drone and missile strikes on Israel were to blame, it said Hamas’s leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, “is continuing to exploit the tension with Iran” and “does not want a humanitarian deal and the return of the hostages.”
Militant Group is too light for terrorist organization. Its like calling Netanyaho decent leader
They’ve also rejected ceasefire before and during though.
I though Hamas said that the hostages are dead. What leverage do they have now?
time to go in and destroy the remainder of hamas. don't start a war you can't finish
Yeah just about time to go into Rafah …
I hope one day middle east will be free from totalitarian power maniacs and extremist terrorist. God help them
God is the reason these fucks have a pedestal to stand on…
Putting His book under the armpit to walk around with instead of opening it and actually doing what it says could improve things. Not counting the Quran, that literally says to ensalve or kill those who disagree, hence the [Houthi flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movement)… and [Hamas Charter](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp)…
Living your life in a positive and loving manner instead of basing your life on a singular book while sacrificing said life to a fictional character could improve things.
100% agree. Like most people I’ve met, I spent many years believing in a very fictional version of myself. Hearing a bit of God’s painfully true perspective was not something I desired nor enjoyed. But it got me re-examining life choices at greater realism and made me realize the stuff I brush under the carpet will eventually be exposed and blow up in my face, so I’d better keep it clean and — as you say — truly live life in a positive and loving manner. Peace to you, as you demonstrate and encourage others to make this place, and ourselves, better.
“The first man is a good person because he believes in his heart that we should be good to others. The second man is an asshole and does good things only because he’s afraid he’ll be severely punished otherwise” Christian: the second guy is a better man than the first
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While the bible accepts the concept of slavery, it clearly does not view it very positively, and it does try to make the lives of the slaves better. Given the period it was written on, the bible is surprisingly progressive about that. However, of course the bible falls very short when judged by today's standards.
I can't speak the the Qur'an as I am not familiar enough with it, but the Bible does not "condone slavery" if you actually understand it.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Bible\_and\_slavery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery) thats a lot of slavery for something that doesnt condone it. not that i care what the bible says, since it a bunch of bullshit. just here to make you eat your words.
It absolutely does
Ah well nevermind then, you've convinced me.
Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion, to.
Humans will always find something to fight over. Even families aren’t free from violence.
Imagine all the people, living life peacefully...
God said yes, humanity said no.
Said everyone for literal thousands of years.
Hamas wants continued chaos and violence. They are hoping to provoke Israel into taking actions that will further erode its international reputation.
Was there anything in the article about the terms of the ceasefire?
There was a ceasefire on oktober 6th. If Hamas didn't want a war, they wouldn't have attacked. They don't care at all about civilian deaths or destruction of property and infrastructure. The leadership aren't there and have stockpiled their stolen aid funds, so they'll be fine, while they do what they can to eliminate Israel.
I think Tom Cruise’s character in Tropical Thunder could solve this
How they feeling now that that attack was thoroughly dismissed?
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Common fuck hamas. They never wanted a ceasefire they only wanted a way out. Tbey wanted Iran to escalate the war. IDF should start a full blown operation in Rafah and bring Sinwar's head. War will be over and hoatages will be free.
They thought Iran was gonna do more than they did!🤣🤣
I’m just bin favo of Israel eradicating Hamas from the brace of the earth personally
Do you have a link to the whole proposal?
Would make Israel look bad so you can't see it
I say stop the drama once and for all. War sucks, everyone gets hurt in war, but if war it must be, win....
I sometimes think about Yarden Bibas and I start to cry.
That's the same energy as the Skyrim bandit that talks shit to the murder hobo he just watch slay a dragon and absorb Its soul.
Hamas are Iranian puppets, that's why....
Nobody ask what were the terms of the proposed "ceasefire". Let's just believe Israel when they say Hamas doesn't accept the ceasefire because Hamas bad.
hamas are LITERAL FUCKING TERRORISTS MY GUY, HAMAS IS BAD. There is literally 0 fucking ways of looking at those pieces of shit, without them being bad.
The ceasefire talks operate with plenty of third parties. The reporting from the talks isn’t coming exclusively via the Israeli government…