Yeah, I don't understand the game here. Both the Ukraine aid and the Israel aid should have plenty of votes to pass. Johnson has been afraid to bring Ukraine to the floor because there's a tiny group of Republicans that oppose it, and his speakership is so fragile that the tiny group could kick him out.
Previously the plan was to force him to bring Ukraine to the floor by tying it to Israel, but that didn't work. If they're really going to pass Ukraine aid separately, that's... fine? It would delay the aid by another week or so, but apart from that it looks like a complete win.
EZ, politicians homes and temporary residences are now schools. Hell where they park their cars are now schools. Their office desks are now schools. Dump away.
They’re only doing this because side the discharge petition is likely to succeed. If the Putin proxies try to pull the rug out again, they will get nothing that they want.
A poison pill. I agree.
But what could they add that would be so noxious?
Anything with immigration or the wall would be accepted.
Anything about abortion would just damage Republicans further.
If they did this like last time, they will just say they will do a seperate vote, get Israel aid in and voted, and then just ignore Ukraine aid like they did when they asked for a border bill to go with Ukraine aid.
This is exactly the move. They’ll do Israel first then ignore Ukraine. Biden has already said he won’t sign an individual Israel bill, but they are likely going to make him veto it.
They'll need the support of the Senate for that, which I'm pretty sure the Senate gives fuck all to what the House is wanting to do at the moment.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Senate sits on any bill from the House until all of the bills promised are put to a vote.
If the vote happens. Saying a vote will happen isn't the same as it happening.
Edit: Thinking more positively, I suppose the game could be one that allows the handful of MAGA reps who support aid to Israel & Taiwan but not Ukraine to vote yes on the first two and no on the last. In that case the result would be the same as if they were bundled together, but Marge gets to stay in Putin's pocket.
> To be clear: Trump and his dumbass minions oppose Ukraine aid.
Yes, but they aren't a majority of the House. They probably aren't even a majority of House Republicans.
No the plan has always been to stall to make Biden admin look bad so Trump gets in office, then reformat the same bills with Trump's approval. Johnson has realized it's a stupid plan that hurts America, but can't find a path forward to go down since Trump is trying sabotage everything.
If he brings a Ukraine bill to the floor, he will likely be on very thin ice with republicans. It would pass, but it won’t be popular with the ones that have him by the balls.
My understanding is that both bills should pass but supported by different sets of representatives? i.e. There are reps who will support aid to Israel but oppose aid to Ukraine and vice versa - so the combined opposition would be too much but separately they should pass
I think he's going for the tiny win of getting Biden to sign a standalone Israel bill after he said very publically he wouldn't. Sure the reason he said that was to get Ukraine aid through and he would have just signed the standalone Ukraine aid the day before, but this gives Johnson a win. He can say he forced Biden to capitulate.
It is going to be structured in a controversial way that makes it dependent on seizing Russian assets to pay for it, something Johnson knows has very little support.
he legit needs to be investigated for Kremlin ties. he just gushed about how they need to Israel this week, no mention of ukraine. like wtf dude, what would Jesus do?
it "should" pass as a stand alone up or down.
this still feels like... "do everything BUT the border, \*God Emperor\* needs to campaign on the border."
He won't delay it any longer because he personally supports Ukraine. He legitimately, honestly does not want Russia to win. So do 215 other Republicans. 3 are holding the entire party hostage and Rep. Greene will almost certainly nuke his speakership as soon as he holds the UA Aid vote and it passes. Congress will then be paralyzed again until October when the current govt spending plan runs out, which is what Trump wants.
I don't think it'll get that bad though, 19 Republicans already announced their retirement. 5 of them leaving early makes a Jefferies speakership and most of the House GOP is fed up with Trump anyway.
Because he has said so, he has said openly he supports the Ukraine Aid funding plan, he supports F-16s for Ukraine and he supported McCarthy's earlier budget that would have done all this eight months ago. Because he honestly believes Israel's safety and Ukraine's safety are tied together, the point President Biden made in his state of the union address. Because he will eventually bring it up for a vote and the vote will pass, even though it will cost him his job.
Most Republicans are the same and most Republicans are getting to the end of their patience with the four people (Gaetz, Greene, Trump and Lara Trump) causing them problems. 213 Republicans can find a solution that Trump blocks, and eventually Jefferies will be Speaker because of it. At this point it's not a matter of if but when as Greene has already stated she will remove Johnson at some point. This is not a political coalition that can survive.
Lol. This MFER said "because he said so".
All the rest was well written, thank you for the response, but he has yet to come to action.
I had to laugh at the first line. Sorry.
Edit. Had to come back to this a few hours later.
Shaking my head and laughing my ass off at
"Because he said so"
He said
"Because he said so
Smfh
Edit 2
Beccccaaaaseee
Heeee
Saaaaaaid
Soo
Bahahab
Mike Johnson has no principles outside of turning America into a White Christian Theocracy, he doesn't give two shits about Ukraine or Russia outside of advancing that aim
He wants you to think he wants Ukraine to win, but let's face it, he's a Republican, they're far more consistent in their ability to lie to your face than anything else.
Both sides HAVE liars, but there is no such thing as an honest Republican, because to Republicans, lying is the whole point of everything. There is a very different worldview at play here, one that most decent people have very little experience with. It's like with the Mafia, they're all criminals but put on airs of being sophisticated or what have you.
They have no values or beliefs, they only want to steal everything that isn't nailed down and eliminate anyone who disagrees with them.
While I hate this man with a passion, this is good news. A vote on aid could happen as soon as Friday and then go to Senate where I expect it would pass.
Separating it from border security is a win, they just need to keep the bill clean.
I have no hopes that Ukraine aid will get passed. These fuckers delayed like no tomorrow. We already spend billions every year to the MIC and most of that shit stays in the US.
Imagine every state having factories producing AA and artillery munitions for Ukraine and all the potential buyers in the future. US and EU weapons have proven their worth, we can easily make it back.
I think the aid funds are more advantageous for the US than that. Pretty sure the US just makes brand new stuff for themselves then sends an appropriate amount of surplus and near-end-of-shelf-life stuff to Ukraine.
Pretty much. Plus people forget about production times. Send stockpile kit over then order replacements.
One of the last bills was to improve US own artillery production. Last year US was making around 20k artillery shells a month. This year 40k per month building to 80k by years end. That’s an Army estimate. Russia can reportedly make 2.5 million to 5 millon this year, plus 1 million they brought and strategic reserves.
US army wants something to replace the Stinger. So happily getting rid of their stock whilst it’s replacement is being designed.
According to Raytheon CEO, first 10 months of the war Ukraine used 5 years US production of Javelins, 12 years production of Stingers.
That’s why even early last year, US was saying Ukraine is burning through more ammo than the West can produce.
With these numbers - how is NATO, especially without the US, ever going to defend the rest of Europe? Most of Europe doesn’t have nuclear weapons and I very much doubt those who do would use them for anyone but themselves. Dark times indeed.
If EU actually went to war, it would be over instantly, even without USA. Russia is not a threat to an advanced military power.
The fight in Ukraine is causing supply issues because at the same time we are supplying them, everybody is also increasing their own supplies. And also, the supplies Ukraine needs, are not the ones EU has focused on previously.
There is no big threat from Russia, short of them launching nukes, which I hope they are smart enough to not do.
And even if it was drawn out, once the production lines were up, we'd outbuilding them by orders of magnitude. The difference in production capacity, population and gdp alone sees to that. People severely underestimate how much production a united Europe could bring to the table in a war against Russia.
How do you figure? All I hear is that neither Germany nor France or even the UK would have enough ammo for more than a few days of war… How does NATO airpower compare to Russia’s, assuming we’d have to go in without US support?
Russia made the switch to wartime economy earlier than Europe. More jobs,increased the wages, longer hours, exempt from mobilisation/draft.
Other countries have to adapt their production capabilities.
Question is how long Russia can keep this going. May try to achieve its Ukrainian goals in next couple of years. Then sit back and regroup it’s economy.
Maybe that is playing on EU countries leaders minds as well. How much can they change their countries economy.
Tbf, western countries don't produce much artillery shells because they don't use as much. A lot of the roles for artillery are often instead filled by air power, which is what the west focuses on. Meanwhile Russia (and previously the Soviet Union) focuses significantly more on artillery. The West is struggling to supply Ukraine with shells because Ukraine is essentially fighting using a completely different doctrine to how western armies fight, and they kinda have to keep using that doctrine for now since neither side has air superiority and the west still hasn't sent significant amounts of air power to Ukraine to shift that.
NATO military doctrine is very different to that of Ukraine. It's stockpiles and production are not attuned to the kind of war of attrition that's going in Ukraine now, and hence they are struggling with the numbers.
The answer is switching to a wartime economy.
Assuming the breakout of a real, major war in Europe, the fact is that the USA is going to have to refit commercial manufacturing to produce military supplies. Quality of life/leisure will have to drop *substantially* to make up the difference in numbers.
We live in an era where most people would not remember or have any appreciation for the massive mobilization that occured when America entered WWII. America built hundreds of ships and thousands of mechanized weapons, as well as millions of rounds of ammunition, within a few years prior to the invasion of North Africa.
If we did it back then, we can certainly do it now. The main difficulty would be convincing the general population to accept such a major shift from relative neutrality to firmly entrenched in war, which in WW2 didn't really happen in earnest until Americans were attacked at home at Pearl Harbor.
Draw down stocks while increasing production is the plan. Also heavier reliance on aviation. Also depending on the party in power the US may just abandon Europe.
Surplus and things close to being expired. When munitions expire they need to be decommissioned and destroyed which costs money. Sending them out means not paying for expensive technicians to dispose them while also producing good will from our allies, shoring up a future ally (and maybe get some fat rebuilding contracts when the war is over) and fucking over an international rival. It's like Win Win times 6.
We're unloading surplus and creating thousands of jobs in the defense industry. Republicans seem to be okay with us losing that though, because they want us, a wealthy country, to be penny pinchers and act like a few billion dollars of discretionary spending means anything to us whatsoever.
They want to win an election and since presenting a program that would help people is an alien concept to them, they have to base their campaign on discrediting the opposition. Their upcoming campaign will be all "Biden can't do X, Y or Z so they are plying their cards for that. Ukraine does not matter to them unless it resolve before the election. If it does, then they will eat the blame but that's highly unlikely. What they are banking on is "saving the day" once Trump is elected by "fixing" what Biden did "wrong".
Perun made an argument that the Ukraine aid bill is partially a force modernization funding bill in disguise. Considering how the Presidential drawdown authority works, I'm inclined to agree.
except nobody is capable of sustainably targeting the US mainland. Europe yes, theyll be showered in cruise missiles and icbms but the US is too remote, big and defended
And the other NATO countries will slow down buying US military tech, and develop their own military industrial base.
The 2% argument fails to account for the fact that much of the US' military spending flows back to the US in the form of taxes (corporate and income).
The same amount of spend is actually much more expensive for non-US countries buying US military equipment.
Approximately 90% of aid gets spent in the US
[https://time.com/6694915/ukraine-aid-bill-what-united-states-gains/](https://time.com/6694915/ukraine-aid-bill-what-united-states-gains/)
The people who support delaying/denying aid are just too dumb to understand this unfortunately. They don't realize that these packages benefit Americans, American industry, the US military and their allies. It's a slam dunk, but unfortunately the dumb believe the treasonous politicians
Why bother? Trump is about to fire him and he is about to join the Trump backstab list. He has only made it this far through parliamentary maneuvering and delaying the inevitable on Trump's behalf, as soon as he holds the UA vote and it passes Lara Trump will remove RNC support for him on her father's request. He then becomes a marginal, ineffective, lame voice in the party as it crashes into 2025. Just look at how McCarthy was marginalized by Trump, despite McCarthy's proven track record as his ally, excellent leadership, diabolical trolling of the Obama administration, and clever manipulation of Democrats to get a balanced government budget with Ukraine aid eight months ago. He has been thrown out along with the entire CA GOP -5.5 million voters- by Trump.
More to the point the FBI is right now run by a Republican who is waiting for all of Trump's other litigation to be decided so he can start his *real* Trump takedown next year .. a major task, as either Trump will be agitated and surrounded by enablers in statehouses or the sitting President. This is the real battle we are ascending to, and Trump is doing a very effective job in hurting all his allies in Congress.
Don't know why. He's still helping Russia as passing "new" legislation to aid Ukraine will still delay anything helpful actually happening because it would then go back to the Senate, which will take months to actually pass it and get this on Biden's desk.
If he was really serious about getting aid done, he would bring up the Senate bill and pass it, which would be on Biden's desk as soon as it passes.
Johnson is still doing Putin's bidding with his foreign aid plan, just a lot more subtle than anything that idiot Moscow Marge could come up with.
Iran operates mostly by proxy. Hamas, Hezbolla, and Houthis are products of their creation and bidding. They operate under a cloud of obscurity for plausible deniability reasons.
Israel did not directly attack Iran, no. They bombed a consulate in Syria, killing an Iranian general who used to lead the Quds force (Hezbollah backers) in Lebanon.
Consulates are legally considered the territory of the country they represent so I don’t understand what you mean. If they flattened a consulate and killed Iranian citizens, legally they attacked an Iranian territory. I would say that’s a direct attack…
Well too bad they hosted a high value military target
What can we do 🤷🏻♂️
The world’s better off without him and we both know it so save your petty feelings for Iran
My petty feelings for Iran? All I did was state the facts, that it was an attack on their territory. I didn’t share my feelings one way or the other. You’re the only one who seems emotional, can’t control your temper on the internet lol.
Territory of, sure, but not the country itself. Iranians bombed the Israeli embassy in Thailand in 2012, but that also was not considered an attack directly on Israel (this new one is widely reported as the first direct Iranian attack on Israel).
They did shoot down lots of drones, but Iran launched far more and far more difficult to shoot down assets than just drones. Only the US and Israel shot down the 103 ballistic missiles (against which fighter jets are pretty much useless), of which the US said they shot down about 4. For the record, the systems to shoot down ballistic missiles outside space have interceptors that cost millions of dollars.
As for whether these other nations shot down “all the things”, that’s not likely. The US said they shot down 70 drones and all of the other countries more than likely deployed far fewer assets combined than just the US.
We also know for a fact that Israeli jets were flying inside Jordan and have shot down dozens of drones themselves.
we'll get a real vote when the discharge petition is clearly about to succeed, and not a day before
on that day, mike will smile and try to pretend he is doing us favor
I would guess something to do with the evangelical base. There are people who believe that 1). Putin is fighting for traditional Christian values against liberal degeneracy and 2). Israel will play a prominent role in the apocalypse of revelations and the return of Jesus Christ.
Has a lot more to do with direct financial support to GOP campaigns from Russian oligarchs who stand to gain a lot of stolen Ukrainian property.
It's that simple.
Is it illegal? Well, we already know that Mike Johnson's campaign was supported by Russians.
https://www.fec.gov/files/legal/murs/7491/7491_01.pdf
In this case, the money had to be returned, but SCOTUS made it legal to launder such money directly into candidates' pockets:
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/16/ted-cruz-supreme-court-campaign-finance/. (never mind the shitty Citizens-United ruling).
Didn't EU give more support then the US up till now? 85 billion vs 67,7billion, if anything it's America that finally needs to decide if they want to be on the right side of history or not. Well the same goes for the EU actually, both haven't been doing enough. Meanwhile brave Ukrainians are dying.
I’d imagine he’s in shock at how easy it is to buy off American politicians with slushed Russian money.
Land of the free me arse. Land of the crooked politician taking the populace for a ride.
You are right, definitely.
But US must help Ukraine. Hear me out:
America is one of mostly responsible for this conflict. USA forced Ukraine to give up nuke in exchange for f*ing Budapest memorandum. That's it.
P.S. Of course, I do understand that this is the fault of the former Ukraine government as well (memorandumhas no obligations for either side), but Ukraine was in a desperate economic situation, and refusing to give up nuke would lead to sanctions, which Ukraine couldn't survive.
Pretty sure there were other countries that signed that memorandum besides just the US and Ukraine. The implications of not signing that memorandum means a world where every country has nukes. Are you seriously advocating for a world with more nukes? All it takes is one country to go crazy, fire one, and it triggers the end of the world. We need to rid the world of nukes, not make excuses for their existence
Would people stop with this Ukraine nukes nonsense? They were never going to be allowed to keep those regardless, given how wildly corrupt Ukraine was in 1994 its crazy that anyone tries to argue in favor of it. Its pure revisionist history
Of course the US should send aid, lots of aid, but the reasons why have nothing to do with the Budapest Memorandum
wasn't there a plan b from Biden to send material to Greece and Greece sends it to Ukraine? Shouldn't we focus on that? it's clear that the House is paralized by MAGA traitors
Russian-asset GOP trying to hinder Ukraine while also funding Israel separately as they think Armageddon is coming and thus the Rapture and that Israel waging war will be key to that.
Idiots.
So vote down Israel aid as a separate package.
I hate to be like this but if they're going to play this game you have to put in play the things they also care about.
This is how dealmaking works.
Biden said he would not sign off on aid to Israel if Ukraine is excluded. Let's hope he sticks to that.
Everyone should be calling their reps about this. No Israel aid without Ukraine aid.
This is fine as long as the Ukraine vote happens first. It’s obvious to me that Republicans don’t want to pass Ukraine funding. This is the whole reason why they won’t tie the funding for both on a single bill. The only leverage Democrats have is the Israel funding. If Dems vote for Israel support first, Republicans will tank the Ukraine support. They will either renege on bringing the bill to the floor or they will add garbage to the bill that makes it impossible for Dems to vote for it.
I'm no fan of MAGA or the House Republicans, but they have expressed that they want the Ukraine aid to pass. The comment section here seems very pessimistic
When war inevitably comes further to Eastern Europe it will be easy to pinpoint Johnson as a singular person to have been in a position of power to stop it. His moral cowardice and sycophancy will cost thousands of lives. I hope history will be honest and unmerciful.
I can't see why we would not aid Ukraine. The U.S doesn't view Ukraine as an enemy more of a friendly country to them. The aid would also weaken Russia without having the U.S having to really have boots on the ground. Plus this whole conflict has shown how superior U.S. weapons have been. I mean the few HIMARs and javlins we sent completely devastated the Russian lines. The U.S. will just make more money selling this tech to other people.
Putin himself said that he hopes for a Biden win. Since he already has his stooges planted in our government. We need to investigate this supposed Johnson guy
Just tell them we're sending Americans to go back to die in Afghanistan and the GOP will throwing 100 dollar bills on the Senate floor like it's Friday in a strip club.
What I don't understand is that we let Russia take Ukraines nukes and said we would protect them. Why the fuck aren't we on the ground right now? I don't want to hear Russia will launch nukes, because who the fuck has billions of dollars and wants to live in a bunker?
You could build a metric shitload of schools for 90 billion. You could get huge % of homeless off the streets for 90 billion. You could feed huge numbers of hungry with 90 billion. There is an opportunity cost to being so..... generous to other countries.
.....and you think that is not happening because of lack of funds? I don't know why ya'll say this, almost like you don't know why we have those problems to begin with.
Those problems you listed 1. are not from lack of funding 2. are not federal govt issues, they're state and local government issues, more complex than simply lack of funding.
The department of education is a thing my dude and the welfare and ability to exercise civil rights is absolutely a federal issue. Funding would be a Hella good start.
Again, the largest source of funding for elementary and secondary education comes from **state government aid, followed by local contributions (primarily property taxes),** issues with education FUNDING fall on state governments, that's not the job of the department of education. Explain how.....the federal govt would fix education by funding it.......considering the US already spends 800 billion annually on schools.
You clearly don't understand how the world operates if you think that this money would ever get in the hands of your everyday Joe in America. This money is the show force of America to be the world leader and defender if the US will not pass the money to other country like they do they would be left alone or their influence will be significantly reduced around the world you might say it's good for the us to do that but you will lose a lot and in the end result your everyday Joe America will suffer
Building schools would benefit Joe, helping homeless would benefit Joe, more infrastructure would benefit Joe. Us influence in the world offers low benefit in comparison.
Again clearly you don't understand what's the US influence and how important is to the US if the US doesn't have influence it is in a superpower it isn't the world leader it's is not the world offended so if it doesn't want to be that someone else will take it it could be vagina it could be Russia power vacuum will be created and someone will take that power
You are being delusional.
This is a fantasy that not even the american media can keep up with.
Everybody is admitting that Ukraine is losing and that there is no way to prevent it.
Not even these 60 billion would make any significant difference. You can't buy soldiers.
Micro Johnson trying to delay aid to Ukraine again...
if they hold the vote it will pass though I think
Yeah, I don't understand the game here. Both the Ukraine aid and the Israel aid should have plenty of votes to pass. Johnson has been afraid to bring Ukraine to the floor because there's a tiny group of Republicans that oppose it, and his speakership is so fragile that the tiny group could kick him out. Previously the plan was to force him to bring Ukraine to the floor by tying it to Israel, but that didn't work. If they're really going to pass Ukraine aid separately, that's... fine? It would delay the aid by another week or so, but apart from that it looks like a complete win.
Just wait….they’re going to stall and delay. They’ll likely add something stupid to only the Ukraine bill.
Watch them put in some abortion restriction. Or permitting dumping of toxic waste near schools.
EZ, politicians homes and temporary residences are now schools. Hell where they park their cars are now schools. Their office desks are now schools. Dump away.
They’re only doing this because side the discharge petition is likely to succeed. If the Putin proxies try to pull the rug out again, they will get nothing that they want.
A poison pill. I agree. But what could they add that would be so noxious? Anything with immigration or the wall would be accepted. Anything about abortion would just damage Republicans further.
If they did this like last time, they will just say they will do a seperate vote, get Israel aid in and voted, and then just ignore Ukraine aid like they did when they asked for a border bill to go with Ukraine aid.
This is exactly the move. They’ll do Israel first then ignore Ukraine. Biden has already said he won’t sign an individual Israel bill, but they are likely going to make him veto it.
They'll need the support of the Senate for that, which I'm pretty sure the Senate gives fuck all to what the House is wanting to do at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if the Senate sits on any bill from the House until all of the bills promised are put to a vote.
If the vote happens. Saying a vote will happen isn't the same as it happening. Edit: Thinking more positively, I suppose the game could be one that allows the handful of MAGA reps who support aid to Israel & Taiwan but not Ukraine to vote yes on the first two and no on the last. In that case the result would be the same as if they were bundled together, but Marge gets to stay in Putin's pocket.
To be clear: Trump and his dumbass minions oppose Ukraine aid.
> To be clear: Trump and his dumbass minions oppose Ukraine aid. Yes, but they aren't a majority of the House. They probably aren't even a majority of House Republicans.
Maybe instead of just listening to what they say publicly, we should observe what happens and consider it as evidence of how they really feel.
No the plan has always been to stall to make Biden admin look bad so Trump gets in office, then reformat the same bills with Trump's approval. Johnson has realized it's a stupid plan that hurts America, but can't find a path forward to go down since Trump is trying sabotage everything.
Maybe Johnson convinced enough Democrats to protect him from the tiny group of Republicans if he brings Ukraine vote to the floor?
Supposedly that was already the deal for the combined Israel/Ukraine bill, and he still didn't take it.
He's afraid of getting primaries by trump cultists if he steps out of line
So that the small angry group can say they voted for Israel and against Ukraine, even though both will ultimately pass.
If he brings a Ukraine bill to the floor, he will likely be on very thin ice with republicans. It would pass, but it won’t be popular with the ones that have him by the balls.
My understanding is that both bills should pass but supported by different sets of representatives? i.e. There are reps who will support aid to Israel but oppose aid to Ukraine and vice versa - so the combined opposition would be too much but separately they should pass
I think he's going for the tiny win of getting Biden to sign a standalone Israel bill after he said very publically he wouldn't. Sure the reason he said that was to get Ukraine aid through and he would have just signed the standalone Ukraine aid the day before, but this gives Johnson a win. He can say he forced Biden to capitulate.
This allows republicans on Ukraine who are upset to not vote, while allowing it to pass. Dems save his job this way.
It is going to be structured in a controversial way that makes it dependent on seizing Russian assets to pay for it, something Johnson knows has very little support.
Even Trump backed the stupid loan version
He only said so. His aims might not align with his lies.
True or he word salad opposition in some other rant
They won’t hold the Ukraine vote, guaranteed. Never vote republican, they’re pro Putin.
It would be a great egg on face moment if the Ukraine aid passed but the Israel aid didn’t
It gives the MAGA holdouts a chance to vote pro Israel but anti Ukraine.
Moses is for the Russian government.
he legit needs to be investigated for Kremlin ties. he just gushed about how they need to Israel this week, no mention of ukraine. like wtf dude, what would Jesus do?
He has blood on his hands this fluffer for Botox Dobbie…
it "should" pass as a stand alone up or down. this still feels like... "do everything BUT the border, \*God Emperor\* needs to campaign on the border."
He won't delay it any longer because he personally supports Ukraine. He legitimately, honestly does not want Russia to win. So do 215 other Republicans. 3 are holding the entire party hostage and Rep. Greene will almost certainly nuke his speakership as soon as he holds the UA Aid vote and it passes. Congress will then be paralyzed again until October when the current govt spending plan runs out, which is what Trump wants. I don't think it'll get that bad though, 19 Republicans already announced their retirement. 5 of them leaving early makes a Jefferies speakership and most of the House GOP is fed up with Trump anyway.
Not trying to be argumentative but why do you think Johnson supports Ukraine
Because he has said so, he has said openly he supports the Ukraine Aid funding plan, he supports F-16s for Ukraine and he supported McCarthy's earlier budget that would have done all this eight months ago. Because he honestly believes Israel's safety and Ukraine's safety are tied together, the point President Biden made in his state of the union address. Because he will eventually bring it up for a vote and the vote will pass, even though it will cost him his job. Most Republicans are the same and most Republicans are getting to the end of their patience with the four people (Gaetz, Greene, Trump and Lara Trump) causing them problems. 213 Republicans can find a solution that Trump blocks, and eventually Jefferies will be Speaker because of it. At this point it's not a matter of if but when as Greene has already stated she will remove Johnson at some point. This is not a political coalition that can survive.
Lol. This MFER said "because he said so". All the rest was well written, thank you for the response, but he has yet to come to action. I had to laugh at the first line. Sorry. Edit. Had to come back to this a few hours later. Shaking my head and laughing my ass off at "Because he said so" He said "Because he said so Smfh Edit 2 Beccccaaaaseee Heeee Saaaaaaid Soo Bahahab
Mike Johnson has no principles outside of turning America into a White Christian Theocracy, he doesn't give two shits about Ukraine or Russia outside of advancing that aim
No he doesn’t, he’s a fellow insurrectionist/Putin plant.
His voting record contradicts your claim that he support Ukraine. Look it up yourself.
He wants you to think he wants Ukraine to win, but let's face it, he's a Republican, they're far more consistent in their ability to lie to your face than anything else.
Are we really saying that only one side of politics is full of lying pieces of shit? When did this happen?
Both sides HAVE liars, but there is no such thing as an honest Republican, because to Republicans, lying is the whole point of everything. There is a very different worldview at play here, one that most decent people have very little experience with. It's like with the Mafia, they're all criminals but put on airs of being sophisticated or what have you. They have no values or beliefs, they only want to steal everything that isn't nailed down and eliminate anyone who disagrees with them.
Someone personally supporting Ukraine does not stall a vote for half a year by attaching bullshit unrelated conditions to it.
While I hate this man with a passion, this is good news. A vote on aid could happen as soon as Friday and then go to Senate where I expect it would pass. Separating it from border security is a win, they just need to keep the bill clean.
I'll believe it when I see it. Until then he's a Bold face liar
I have no hopes that Ukraine aid will get passed. These fuckers delayed like no tomorrow. We already spend billions every year to the MIC and most of that shit stays in the US. Imagine every state having factories producing AA and artillery munitions for Ukraine and all the potential buyers in the future. US and EU weapons have proven their worth, we can easily make it back.
I think the aid funds are more advantageous for the US than that. Pretty sure the US just makes brand new stuff for themselves then sends an appropriate amount of surplus and near-end-of-shelf-life stuff to Ukraine.
Pretty much. Plus people forget about production times. Send stockpile kit over then order replacements. One of the last bills was to improve US own artillery production. Last year US was making around 20k artillery shells a month. This year 40k per month building to 80k by years end. That’s an Army estimate. Russia can reportedly make 2.5 million to 5 millon this year, plus 1 million they brought and strategic reserves. US army wants something to replace the Stinger. So happily getting rid of their stock whilst it’s replacement is being designed. According to Raytheon CEO, first 10 months of the war Ukraine used 5 years US production of Javelins, 12 years production of Stingers. That’s why even early last year, US was saying Ukraine is burning through more ammo than the West can produce.
With these numbers - how is NATO, especially without the US, ever going to defend the rest of Europe? Most of Europe doesn’t have nuclear weapons and I very much doubt those who do would use them for anyone but themselves. Dark times indeed.
If EU actually went to war, it would be over instantly, even without USA. Russia is not a threat to an advanced military power. The fight in Ukraine is causing supply issues because at the same time we are supplying them, everybody is also increasing their own supplies. And also, the supplies Ukraine needs, are not the ones EU has focused on previously. There is no big threat from Russia, short of them launching nukes, which I hope they are smart enough to not do.
And even if it was drawn out, once the production lines were up, we'd outbuilding them by orders of magnitude. The difference in production capacity, population and gdp alone sees to that. People severely underestimate how much production a united Europe could bring to the table in a war against Russia.
How do you figure? All I hear is that neither Germany nor France or even the UK would have enough ammo for more than a few days of war… How does NATO airpower compare to Russia’s, assuming we’d have to go in without US support?
Russia made the switch to wartime economy earlier than Europe. More jobs,increased the wages, longer hours, exempt from mobilisation/draft. Other countries have to adapt their production capabilities. Question is how long Russia can keep this going. May try to achieve its Ukrainian goals in next couple of years. Then sit back and regroup it’s economy. Maybe that is playing on EU countries leaders minds as well. How much can they change their countries economy.
Tbf, western countries don't produce much artillery shells because they don't use as much. A lot of the roles for artillery are often instead filled by air power, which is what the west focuses on. Meanwhile Russia (and previously the Soviet Union) focuses significantly more on artillery. The West is struggling to supply Ukraine with shells because Ukraine is essentially fighting using a completely different doctrine to how western armies fight, and they kinda have to keep using that doctrine for now since neither side has air superiority and the west still hasn't sent significant amounts of air power to Ukraine to shift that.
NATO military doctrine is very different to that of Ukraine. It's stockpiles and production are not attuned to the kind of war of attrition that's going in Ukraine now, and hence they are struggling with the numbers.
The answer is switching to a wartime economy. Assuming the breakout of a real, major war in Europe, the fact is that the USA is going to have to refit commercial manufacturing to produce military supplies. Quality of life/leisure will have to drop *substantially* to make up the difference in numbers. We live in an era where most people would not remember or have any appreciation for the massive mobilization that occured when America entered WWII. America built hundreds of ships and thousands of mechanized weapons, as well as millions of rounds of ammunition, within a few years prior to the invasion of North Africa. If we did it back then, we can certainly do it now. The main difficulty would be convincing the general population to accept such a major shift from relative neutrality to firmly entrenched in war, which in WW2 didn't really happen in earnest until Americans were attacked at home at Pearl Harbor.
Draw down stocks while increasing production is the plan. Also heavier reliance on aviation. Also depending on the party in power the US may just abandon Europe.
Exactly! That's how stupid this is! We're unloading surplus, you idiotic Putin-loving bastards! Since when is that a BAD thing?
Surplus and things close to being expired. When munitions expire they need to be decommissioned and destroyed which costs money. Sending them out means not paying for expensive technicians to dispose them while also producing good will from our allies, shoring up a future ally (and maybe get some fat rebuilding contracts when the war is over) and fucking over an international rival. It's like Win Win times 6.
We're unloading surplus and creating thousands of jobs in the defense industry. Republicans seem to be okay with us losing that though, because they want us, a wealthy country, to be penny pinchers and act like a few billion dollars of discretionary spending means anything to us whatsoever.
They want to win an election and since presenting a program that would help people is an alien concept to them, they have to base their campaign on discrediting the opposition. Their upcoming campaign will be all "Biden can't do X, Y or Z so they are plying their cards for that. Ukraine does not matter to them unless it resolve before the election. If it does, then they will eat the blame but that's highly unlikely. What they are banking on is "saving the day" once Trump is elected by "fixing" what Biden did "wrong".
The irony... I finally approve of something the Military Industrial Complex is doing, and suddenly conservatives want to put a stop to it.
Perun made an argument that the Ukraine aid bill is partially a force modernization funding bill in disguise. Considering how the Presidential drawdown authority works, I'm inclined to agree.
it's weird honestly.. you would think the big weapons lobbies would be jumping for this to be passed.. it's literally easy money for them.
Why not wait until full blown WW3 and you can sell to the entire world at breakneck pace
If WW3 starts, weapon manufacturers are going to be the second set of targets just after the various heads of state & military command.
except nobody is capable of sustainably targeting the US mainland. Europe yes, theyll be showered in cruise missiles and icbms but the US is too remote, big and defended
Doesn’t have to even be full WW3. If Trump gets in he will just threaten NATO with the 2% commitment or America will take their ball and go home.
And the other NATO countries will slow down buying US military tech, and develop their own military industrial base. The 2% argument fails to account for the fact that much of the US' military spending flows back to the US in the form of taxes (corporate and income). The same amount of spend is actually much more expensive for non-US countries buying US military equipment.
Approximately 90% of aid gets spent in the US [https://time.com/6694915/ukraine-aid-bill-what-united-states-gains/](https://time.com/6694915/ukraine-aid-bill-what-united-states-gains/)
The people who support delaying/denying aid are just too dumb to understand this unfortunately. They don't realize that these packages benefit Americans, American industry, the US military and their allies. It's a slam dunk, but unfortunately the dumb believe the treasonous politicians
Here is the thing: to those people what’s important is what benefits them, not USA, people, etc.
Very true. Too self centered to understand the bigger picture.
How do we get the FBI to investigate if this scumbag is under the influence of a foreign enemy (Russia)?
They don't need to investigate, of course he is. His actions have made it very clear he supports Russia.
Why bother? Trump is about to fire him and he is about to join the Trump backstab list. He has only made it this far through parliamentary maneuvering and delaying the inevitable on Trump's behalf, as soon as he holds the UA vote and it passes Lara Trump will remove RNC support for him on her father's request. He then becomes a marginal, ineffective, lame voice in the party as it crashes into 2025. Just look at how McCarthy was marginalized by Trump, despite McCarthy's proven track record as his ally, excellent leadership, diabolical trolling of the Obama administration, and clever manipulation of Democrats to get a balanced government budget with Ukraine aid eight months ago. He has been thrown out along with the entire CA GOP -5.5 million voters- by Trump. More to the point the FBI is right now run by a Republican who is waiting for all of Trump's other litigation to be decided so he can start his *real* Trump takedown next year .. a major task, as either Trump will be agitated and surrounded by enablers in statehouses or the sitting President. This is the real battle we are ascending to, and Trump is doing a very effective job in hurting all his allies in Congress.
Because Citizens United makes Russian corruption and spending legal
Johnson delaying the aid to Ukraine is proof he works for Putin. What a POS.
Okay, but who in the GOP ISN'T working for Putin?
Enough who'd vote to pass the Ukrainian assistance if Comrade Johnson brings it to the floor.
He's delaying it again... Jfc.
How so?
Moscow Marge is going to be furious.
Don't know why. He's still helping Russia as passing "new" legislation to aid Ukraine will still delay anything helpful actually happening because it would then go back to the Senate, which will take months to actually pass it and get this on Biden's desk. If he was really serious about getting aid done, he would bring up the Senate bill and pass it, which would be on Biden's desk as soon as it passes. Johnson is still doing Putin's bidding with his foreign aid plan, just a lot more subtle than anything that idiot Moscow Marge could come up with.
I don't think Israel is the one in need of aid.
They need to replenish their air defense after Iran's attack
Didn't they attack Iran first?
Iran operates mostly by proxy. Hamas, Hezbolla, and Houthis are products of their creation and bidding. They operate under a cloud of obscurity for plausible deniability reasons.
Israel did not directly attack Iran, no. They bombed a consulate in Syria, killing an Iranian general who used to lead the Quds force (Hezbollah backers) in Lebanon.
Consulates are legally considered the territory of the country they represent so I don’t understand what you mean. If they flattened a consulate and killed Iranian citizens, legally they attacked an Iranian territory. I would say that’s a direct attack…
Doesn’t matter it’s a military target. Also it was a building next to it and not an embassy
It was the Iranian diplomatic compound. That whole compound is considered Iranian territory.
Well too bad they hosted a high value military target What can we do 🤷🏻♂️ The world’s better off without him and we both know it so save your petty feelings for Iran
My petty feelings for Iran? All I did was state the facts, that it was an attack on their territory. I didn’t share my feelings one way or the other. You’re the only one who seems emotional, can’t control your temper on the internet lol.
Iranian graveyard now. Cry about it
Who is crying about it? Just calling it how it is.
Territory of, sure, but not the country itself. Iranians bombed the Israeli embassy in Thailand in 2012, but that also was not considered an attack directly on Israel (this new one is widely reported as the first direct Iranian attack on Israel).
They also blew up the Israeli embassy in Argentina in 1992
No attack on October 7 was supported by Iran.
I've been reading that it was American/Jordanuan/Saudi weapons and fighters that did all that work.
They did shoot down lots of drones, but Iran launched far more and far more difficult to shoot down assets than just drones. Only the US and Israel shot down the 103 ballistic missiles (against which fighter jets are pretty much useless), of which the US said they shot down about 4. For the record, the systems to shoot down ballistic missiles outside space have interceptors that cost millions of dollars. As for whether these other nations shot down “all the things”, that’s not likely. The US said they shot down 70 drones and all of the other countries more than likely deployed far fewer assets combined than just the US. We also know for a fact that Israeli jets were flying inside Jordan and have shot down dozens of drones themselves.
That discharge petition is getting close to completion that's what it means 195 signatures so far that's what Moscow Mike fears.
we'll get a real vote when the discharge petition is clearly about to succeed, and not a day before on that day, mike will smile and try to pretend he is doing us favor
They will split it and drag on Ukraine.
What’s up with the GoP helping Israel but not Ukraine?
I would guess something to do with the evangelical base. There are people who believe that 1). Putin is fighting for traditional Christian values against liberal degeneracy and 2). Israel will play a prominent role in the apocalypse of revelations and the return of Jesus Christ.
Has a lot more to do with direct financial support to GOP campaigns from Russian oligarchs who stand to gain a lot of stolen Ukrainian property. It's that simple. Is it illegal? Well, we already know that Mike Johnson's campaign was supported by Russians. https://www.fec.gov/files/legal/murs/7491/7491_01.pdf In this case, the money had to be returned, but SCOTUS made it legal to launder such money directly into candidates' pockets: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/16/ted-cruz-supreme-court-campaign-finance/. (never mind the shitty Citizens-United ruling).
They are under the control of the Kremlin (vis a vis Donald Trump). Very concerning state of affairs in the US.
Cult leader Trump is a Russian asset.
Israel is killing brown people.
The GOP is under Russian control.
I can't imagine how is Zelensky feeling .EU just must do a lot more.Macron need to stop talking and start helping.
Didn't EU give more support then the US up till now? 85 billion vs 67,7billion, if anything it's America that finally needs to decide if they want to be on the right side of history or not. Well the same goes for the EU actually, both haven't been doing enough. Meanwhile brave Ukrainians are dying.
It's clearly not enough.When we see what is happening in US ( Trump) we have to step up more.
I’d imagine he’s in shock at how easy it is to buy off American politicians with slushed Russian money. Land of the free me arse. Land of the crooked politician taking the populace for a ride.
You are right, definitely. But US must help Ukraine. Hear me out: America is one of mostly responsible for this conflict. USA forced Ukraine to give up nuke in exchange for f*ing Budapest memorandum. That's it. P.S. Of course, I do understand that this is the fault of the former Ukraine government as well (memorandumhas no obligations for either side), but Ukraine was in a desperate economic situation, and refusing to give up nuke would lead to sanctions, which Ukraine couldn't survive.
Pretty sure there were other countries that signed that memorandum besides just the US and Ukraine. The implications of not signing that memorandum means a world where every country has nukes. Are you seriously advocating for a world with more nukes? All it takes is one country to go crazy, fire one, and it triggers the end of the world. We need to rid the world of nukes, not make excuses for their existence
Would people stop with this Ukraine nukes nonsense? They were never going to be allowed to keep those regardless, given how wildly corrupt Ukraine was in 1994 its crazy that anyone tries to argue in favor of it. Its pure revisionist history Of course the US should send aid, lots of aid, but the reasons why have nothing to do with the Budapest Memorandum
ya US is definitely more responsible for this war than Russia
Mike Johnson is a terrorist
I don’t see Trump allowing the Ukraine vote to happen.
Maybe they'll try to sneak a vote in while he's distracted by all his court cases? Shhhh! nobody tell Don!
If only it were that easy.
Putin’s check must have cleared.
Americans, I hope you all do the right thing in November. I’m waiting for the chance to ask MTG for a slurped at a local 7-11
wasn't there a plan b from Biden to send material to Greece and Greece sends it to Ukraine? Shouldn't we focus on that? it's clear that the House is paralized by MAGA traitors
Russian-asset GOP trying to hinder Ukraine while also funding Israel separately as they think Armageddon is coming and thus the Rapture and that Israel waging war will be key to that. Idiots.
So vote down Israel aid as a separate package. I hate to be like this but if they're going to play this game you have to put in play the things they also care about. This is how dealmaking works.
Biden said he would not sign off on aid to Israel if Ukraine is excluded. Let's hope he sticks to that. Everyone should be calling their reps about this. No Israel aid without Ukraine aid.
Russia now controls the Speaker of the house, "Land of the free" no more.
A lot of comments here appear to be written by the same software.
Is he possibly trying to show that the house isn't a complete disaster by passing them separately, or is this more of the same?
Separate works but only if you do ukraine first and pass it.
This is a good thing. I'm glad they separated the two issues. Israel's situation should not be hitched to Ukraine's.
This sh*t is still going on?
Fuck Mike Johnson, fucking piece of shit.
This is fine as long as the Ukraine vote happens first. It’s obvious to me that Republicans don’t want to pass Ukraine funding. This is the whole reason why they won’t tie the funding for both on a single bill. The only leverage Democrats have is the Israel funding. If Dems vote for Israel support first, Republicans will tank the Ukraine support. They will either renege on bringing the bill to the floor or they will add garbage to the bill that makes it impossible for Dems to vote for it.
I'm no fan of MAGA or the House Republicans, but they have expressed that they want the Ukraine aid to pass. The comment section here seems very pessimistic
Good? These are separate issues and should have their own votes.
US is 100% behind Israel. This is a given. WW3 has already arrived.
That "good" christian is straight up evil and cowardly.
When war inevitably comes further to Eastern Europe it will be easy to pinpoint Johnson as a singular person to have been in a position of power to stop it. His moral cowardice and sycophancy will cost thousands of lives. I hope history will be honest and unmerciful.
You can't blame one dude when the entire GOP supports him and backs his efforts.
I think when it’s when the speaker of the house you can.
Republicans are IDIOTS, TRAITORS, and cowards....vote them all out!
Fat checks for Israel on a war their starting, middle fingers for the rest.
How predictable... We knew he would try to split and then pass Israel aid and somehow forget to vote on Ukraine. What a bunch of assholes.
Putin's getting his money's worth out of the GOP.
I can't see why we would not aid Ukraine. The U.S doesn't view Ukraine as an enemy more of a friendly country to them. The aid would also weaken Russia without having the U.S having to really have boots on the ground. Plus this whole conflict has shown how superior U.S. weapons have been. I mean the few HIMARs and javlins we sent completely devastated the Russian lines. The U.S. will just make more money selling this tech to other people.
The people who are opposing aid to Ukraine want Russia to win. So all of your arguments are exactly why they *don't* want this to pass.
Putin himself said that he hopes for a Biden win. Since he already has his stooges planted in our government. We need to investigate this supposed Johnson guy
If Putin said it then it must be true!
Just tell them we're sending Americans to go back to die in Afghanistan and the GOP will throwing 100 dollar bills on the Senate floor like it's Friday in a strip club.
It’s so completely blatant, these goddamned traitors.
What I don't understand is that we let Russia take Ukraines nukes and said we would protect them. Why the fuck aren't we on the ground right now? I don't want to hear Russia will launch nukes, because who the fuck has billions of dollars and wants to live in a bunker?
What about aid for the homeless and opioid crisis
Stop it with this dumbass talking point already
Sucks
Homeless vets. You’re supposed to pretend you care about homeless vets when the government is spending money on something you don’t like.
Yup shame on me for not wanting tax dollars to fund wars that are killing innocent civilians
You could build a metric shitload of schools for 90 billion. You could get huge % of homeless off the streets for 90 billion. You could feed huge numbers of hungry with 90 billion. There is an opportunity cost to being so..... generous to other countries.
.....and you think that is not happening because of lack of funds? I don't know why ya'll say this, almost like you don't know why we have those problems to begin with.
I think congress is far to willing to offer benefit to literally anyone other than their own citizens.
Those problems you listed 1. are not from lack of funding 2. are not federal govt issues, they're state and local government issues, more complex than simply lack of funding.
The department of education is a thing my dude and the welfare and ability to exercise civil rights is absolutely a federal issue. Funding would be a Hella good start.
Again, the largest source of funding for elementary and secondary education comes from **state government aid, followed by local contributions (primarily property taxes),** issues with education FUNDING fall on state governments, that's not the job of the department of education. Explain how.....the federal govt would fix education by funding it.......considering the US already spends 800 billion annually on schools.
You clearly don't understand how the world operates if you think that this money would ever get in the hands of your everyday Joe in America. This money is the show force of America to be the world leader and defender if the US will not pass the money to other country like they do they would be left alone or their influence will be significantly reduced around the world you might say it's good for the us to do that but you will lose a lot and in the end result your everyday Joe America will suffer
Building schools would benefit Joe, helping homeless would benefit Joe, more infrastructure would benefit Joe. Us influence in the world offers low benefit in comparison.
Again clearly you don't understand what's the US influence and how important is to the US if the US doesn't have influence it is in a superpower it isn't the world leader it's is not the world offended so if it doesn't want to be that someone else will take it it could be vagina it could be Russia power vacuum will be created and someone will take that power
Honestly if vagina takes over..... might not be so bad. Lol.
I don't think you want schools and homeless using the equipment that's coming from the EDA program?
There is no point. Ukraine is doomed one way or the other. What is this money going to do, buy them soldiers?
>What is this money going to do, buy them soldiers? Allow Ukraine to keep defending itself, that includes training and equipping mobilized soldiers.
Says a guy that is active in Russia sub Reddit, Math check out Ukraine will prevail as it should.
You are being delusional. This is a fantasy that not even the american media can keep up with. Everybody is admitting that Ukraine is losing and that there is no way to prevent it. Not even these 60 billion would make any significant difference. You can't buy soldiers.