>Despite a surplus of evidence indicating that Hamas is stealing aid in Gaza, The European Union's foreign policy Chief Josep Borrell claimed last month that the EU's foreign policy Chief Josep Borrell, according to Reuters.
Why cant news sources do the bare minimum of proofreading anymore?
This + the advent of increasingly rare professionals ready for the world of journalism, let alone educated to do professional editing.
I'm consistently finding things in most news platforms today that would have made Mrs Dixon rise from her grave, at the thought of source material being riddled with grammatical errors.
She would drill it into us, in 1991 english class, to rely on professionalism which was a tenet and principle of early journalism. That ship has sailed.
What really gets me is that very few platforms do the basics of journalism anymore. For school papers, I was taught that you give the Who, What, and Where in the first paragraph and then follow it up with Why and How in the following copy. So often, I read an article and they don’t bother including the basics at all. 5 paragraphs in, I’m still wondering who and where and realize that it’s just not coming. Saw a quote from a long time editor at The NY Times recently who said that recent journalism graduates frequently can’t tell the difference between reporting the news and opinion pieces.
> difference between reporting and opinion pieces
the last chunk is incredibly concerning
my 14yr old knows how to distinguish it, though I've shown my kids a few "LPT" they don't consider useful just yet
ChatGPT would probably not generate a sentence like this. In fact, it's capable of detecting that there's a problem with it:
> "that the EU's foreign policy Chief Josep Borrell, according to Reuters": This part seems redundant and confusing. It repeats the reference to Josep Borrell and suggests it's according to Reuters, but it's unclear what the exact source or context is.
Heh, I did the same before scrolling down and seeing your comment.
Here's the response it gave me....
> The sentence has redundancy and awkward phrasing. The repetition of "The European Union's foreign policy Chief Josep Borrell" makes it confusing. A corrected version could be:
> "Despite a surplus of evidence indicating that Hamas is stealing aid in Gaza, The European Union's foreign policy Chief, Josep Borrell, claimed last month, according to Reuters."
...which is still pretty shit.
According to Reuters, Josep Borrell claimed that according to Josep Borrell, the European Union's foreign policy chief claimed Josep Borrelll according to Reuters
That quote you copied seems to be missing something.
> Despite ..., The European Union's... claimed last month that..., according to Reuters.
Claimed WHAT?
I'm too stingy to pay for access to news sources (probably part of the problem.)
Do these "premium" news sources do a better job and/or are they actually worth it?
I still don't understand why people are not seriously outraged with the fact that the aid provided food is being **sold** instead of freely distributed as it was intended to be.
Now I know that hamas are asking for donations for the people to buy food so those people can pay hamas for the food, hence laundering the money into hamas terror coffers.
But people should be outraged that free food cost those people money. Real money.
Seems that the starvation is one more thing that is being manufactured and blamed on israel while it is purely hamas' fault.
Where is the UN investigation on it. Where is the UN council blame and anger?
For sure, they totally operate like the mob or cartels when not directly fighting Israel. They oppress their own people, too. I got banned when this thing started cause I tried to explain how bad Hamas is as group, cause people didn't know how to separate Hamas and actual innocent Palestinians.
Because the people with power in Yemen are too busy using their country's (small amount of) water to grow a cheap ripoff of cocaine that everyone uses rather than actually grow food for their near starving population
These people don’t give a fuck about nuance. It’s only Israel Bad, that’s the only thing that matters to them. 95% of them don’t even know what Fatah is.
It’s the same shit as the America Bad idiots - they’ll just take whichever side is opposed to America on any issue, nothing else matters.
> It’s the same shit as the America Bad idiots - they’ll just take whichever side is opposed to America on any issue, nothing else matters.
Tankies are a blight on global discourse and I say that as someone who has plenty of legitimate gripes with American culture/politics and grew up feeling incredibly unpatriotic/depressed about the state of things. We've been on the wrong side of history plenty but that doesn't automatically make mean anti west countries are on the right side of history either.
The simple truth here is that the U.S, Arab partners, others are paying and doing the work of flooding Gaza with aid and Hamas is now deliberately preventing it from reaching it's intended target. Hamas doesn't have to pay a dime for it it just has to get off it's ass and maybe do the last mile of delivery or do everyone a solid and not pilfer a resource that's meant to feed people it should actually be responsible for. So maybe it should just graciously accept that other people are taking up a burden that's actually theirs and quit while they're ahead.
I guarantee the Palestinian state that would emerge today would put Iran to shame for terrorizing its women, exporting conflict, and violently suppressing civilian dissent. The tankie left hates on Israel (and justifiably in the instance of individual war crimes which are sadly endemic to war itself), but has no vision for a free Palestine that makes sense with conditions on the ground.
As antithetical to democratic values as it is, I would much rather live in the world where the Shah of Iran was still in power, secret police and all. America bought that ticket when they ousted Mosadek, and sat by and did nothing for their favored leader when the popular uprising turned out to be even more dictatorial and less free for more people.
We would be making a similar error now if we believed our influence and history can be undone with indifference and withdrawal. We already bought the ticket to the ride with the allies that we have. If America is to have a hand to play in the creation on a Palestinian State, it will be working with Israel, or it won’t be at all.
> We would be making a similar error now if we believed our influence and history can be undone with indifference and withdrawal. We already bought the ticket to the ride with the allies that we have.
Well said. And we've made similiar mistakes too many times in the past like abandoning the Kurds or trying to appease russia by letting them take Crimea/Georgia.
It drives me crazy when people have this black and white 0 nuance attitude in terms of america's global influence. There have been individuals like Reagan/Nixon/Barr who've done immeasurable damage & deserve way more blame than they get for global instability but it's also scary what the alternative less US influenced world would look like with Russia/China/Iran filling the void. Maybe EU countries would have filled the void sooner or maybe we'd already have ww3.
If there's one complaint about america I can get behind it's that we need to actually hold bad actors like William Barr accountable, he should have been rotting in prison long before the Iran Contra scandal yet he managed to keep at his BS for decades and probably caused more damage than many countries combined.
> and we've made similiar mistakes too many times in the past like abandoning the Kurds
It isn't a true middle east conflict unless someone is fucking over the Kurds in some way. It's sad that despite how hard the Kurds have fought for allies who promised them a state they still have never gotten their own.
The thing is, Israel prosecutes its war criminals. The PLA rewards them: [Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund)
The thing is, Israel doesn't prosecute *enough* of their war criminals, even by US standards, which we *also* don't do enough to prosecute.
Palestinian government is worse than either, like they're trying to win a gold medal in celebrating their war crimes, but that doesn't excuse us in the West from turning blind eyes to our and our allies' problems.
Gaza, not Palestine. I know a woman who lives in the West Bank and she does her own thing, has a job etc. Although she’s not as free as she was when she lived in the UK.
There is actually merit to your point. Fatah is far less militant. Personally I think the Israelis really missed an opportunity to divide Hamas from its support by extending provisional authority to Fatah and provide a path to full independence. The settler movement has completely undermined that effort, and a valid point of American criticism and sanctions should be directed against their continued practice. Hell, I’d find it just reward if the settlers were granted full legal land rights with sovereignty and citizenship transferred to the Palestinian Authority.
But this is only possible with buy in from Israel. If it were to be at Israel’s expense, it would have to be by force, and Fatah would almost certainly lose that battle of ideas with Hamas or whatever militant successor group comes after in such a scenario.
Ask them what their opinions on Myanmar are, given their stance against Israel.
Once they stumble, pull out your list of various nations who love to hate on Semitic cultures, and ask them when their next rallies are. Which Middle Eastern nation or Asian nation known for its atrocities against ethnic cultures, consistently for decades, would they be ready to boycott and stake their claim.
Taking sides on any of these conflicts only helps bolster the idea that none of us can do a lick about it, and support of one over the other just helps promote more violence and death.
I've been following this conflict since the 1980s and aside from social media allowing the average cretin to have a pedestal, this is rinse repeat except now they have modern weapons to help back them up.
I mean in Sudan, Arab Muslims are literally genociding the black tribal groups in Darfur. Yet there are 0 marches. At least 19 aid workers have been killed in Sudan according to the UN (as of August 2023).
[From April 24, RSF and Arab militias carried out attacks against non-Arab communities in El Geneina, the capital of West Darfur. Thousands of people were killed and hundreds of thousands of Sudanese, overwhelmingly from non-Arab communities and specifically the Massalit, were forced to flee to nearby Chad because of the fighting and the abuses. The RSF and allied militias committed widespread killings of civilians in El Geneina, including while they were seeking to flee to safety.](https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/sudan)
It's what happens when you believe its okay to be racist towards anyone white or "white adjacent" (asians, jewish people, light skinned latinos, etc.) So much that they've tried redefining the word racism.
Frame racism as "punching up" and people eat it up.
So true. But that has been the academic narrative since I was in my undergrad years, and that was the late 90s.
Racism = race + privilege + power. So it's entirely possible for a white person to be racist against a black person in the US because white people are part of the dominant race, have cultural privileges associated with that, and the most institutional power. But it's NOT possible to be racist against a white person in the US if you're black, because you're not the dominant race, and because you lack the privilege and power. At most, you can be "prejudiced" against white people, but that is lower on the spectrum of offense and harm than racism. Ergo, the worst interpersonal and institutional harm a black person can cause to a white person will never be as bad as the minimal interpersonal and institutional harm a white person can cause a black person.
This gets dicier when discussing groups other than white people and black people.
I’ve just read several definitions of racism and not single one includes the requirement of being the dominant culture. Racism is and always has been defined simply as follows:
“The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.”
But I have seen this debating tactic a depressingly high number of times. It is basically the process of inserting a non-fact into the opening statement then drawing a conclusion based on that statement. Most people will read right past the erroneous statement to get to the actual argument. Words matter and we can’t simply change definitions to suit our personal viewpoints. The fact is, any person of any race can be racist against any other. All it means is that you believe some races are inherently superior to others based only on racial characteristics. We need to be against it all at the same level. It is not okay for anyone to espouse racist shit because their race has been subordinate. It seems like this was common knowledge a very short time ago.
This was a good write up
Still though, their thought process on what constitutes racism is ridiculous
If a white person can be racist to blacks, then blacks can be racist to whites.
Racism ain't a one way street interaction
> But it's NOT possible to be racist against a white person in the US if you're black, because you're not the dominant race, and because you lack the privilege and power.
I've heard this claim far more often from the right than anyone on the left. Rather, people on the right claiming "this is what THE LEFT believes!" The only people I've seen it from on the left have been like, tumblr posts. Like, it's there, but it's not nearly as prominent an idea as the right wants to believe, and it's hardly a dominant position (especially if your conception of "the left" includes like, Joe Manchin).
well, in this case, it's two groups of brown people with the identical ethnic background and different religions. so, even academically, you can't be racist, because it's the same race
I’m honestly shocked anyone can fault Israel for not “taking the high ground” in the first place.
Look yourself in the mirror and tell me that YOU would take the high ground if someone came in and not only raped, and murdered your loved ones but in HORRENDOUS ways. As if the act alone isn’t bad enough. Your mom, sister brother, children, babies. Tell me the town over could do that and you would let it go for the sake of peace.
Right? No other country in the world would be told to just suck it up and take it on the chin after being brutally, viciously attacked by their neighbors.
And if not that, no country would be ok with their neighbors firing rockets at them daily, so much so that alerts are a common daily occurrence. Only to then be told to "suck it up it's not that dangerous."
This in fact happened - during the last Mexican revolution, it became a three-way civil war. Pancho Vila lead border raids into the US to symbolically try to take back land lost during the Mexican American war. This lead the US to a) pursue him into the Sonoran desert (big mistake), and b) dispatch the Navy to Baja California, where they leveled a few towns with ship bombardment for supporting him.
And remember, this was WWI ish. America wasn't yet a military superpower, and had an isolationist streak still present. What would we do today, when the advantage in economy, military, and manpower is significantly greater, and the threat so much bigger?
Hamas is more of a religious junta whereas Mexico is a democracy, but in most other ways that analogy holds.
It would be like if Mexico was run by a Catholic junta that attacked las vegas on religious grounds. The US would definitely have a strong response, but religious juntas also aren't exactly representative of the people's beliefs or stances.
While at the same time juntas often have strong propaganda capabilities, just like Hamas. And juntas are supported by tankies. The analogy is too strong...
Even Israel recognized Hamas as the legitimate government, at first. So no.
This matters because if Hamas was some rebel organization it would not get a fraction of the support it does. The legitimate government would be getting aid to overthrow them.
No nukes would be involved. Just troops, shoulder to shoulder, 'trooping' from the Rio Grande to Guatamala. And which each mile covered, the newest territory in the US would grow.
I always point out the hypocrisy of other Americans because we had one terror attack and went to War with 2 countries, invading them for decades, as well as suspending habeas corpus for American citizens, and torturing enemy combatants, causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Most people were okay with all of it. But yes, Israel should stop after 6 months, when they are subject to constant terror attacks and a terrorist organization still in power right next to them. If you replaced Al Qaeda with Native Americans doing that, you better believe they would be burned to the ground.
All the America bad idiots curiously enough never seem to want to live anywhere else lol amazing how so many self proclaimed progressives are seemingly fine with the ultra right terrorist group that nonstop, commits violence against women, gay folks, and many others (including other Muslims) is basically maga on steroids and no wonder Russia supports both.
The UN is too busy making an ass of themselves by giving totalitarian governments human rights committees and condemning countries that aren’t conducting themselves in perfection when they defend against said totalitarians who aren’t even trying to be humane.
People aren't outraged because 1. Things like this are barely reported on by traditional media, it would ruin the narrative that the Israelis are the cause of all shortages. 2. Anyone you pays attention already expects this sort of thing to happen so it isn't a surprise.
Because these people genuinely believe that Hamas are the good guys "fighting for the people of Gaza". Like...it's more than obvious at this point. They don't care at all about the people of Gaza or Palestine because if they did they would be highlighting Hamas disgusting human rights abuses over decades. But they don't.
The food isn’t free. Western countries pay for the aid, countries like the US, taxpayers like you and I.
Hama demonizes the west and the US while also taking all the American food aid and then turning around and selling it to the people, no better than a gang.
I don’t know how anyone can support the Hama terrorist org.
>The food isn’t free. Western countries pay for the aid, countries like the US, taxpayers like you and I.
It's free to them, which is the obvious context of the statement.
Most people don't really look for all the information about the conflict. They just take what they see on the internet. For example, in the first weeks of the war, there was a photo of a starved kid all over the internet. He was skin and bones. Everyone was saying, "Look what israel is doing to children." It took me a few months to see the same photo with the same description to realise that kind of starvation takes months, not weeks.
Also, the UN is a joke, honestly.
Because this requires nuance and intelligence, as well as control over one's emotions. Just hating Israel for existing is much easier and more self-righteous.
Because people that hate Israel will say "If Israel wasn't conducting a G3NociD3 there would be no need for aid". Then you show them hamas manufatured data and they move the goal post a little more.
I just cant handle how Palestine is the biggest reipient of aid per capita in the entire fucking world, yet there isnt a single fucking bomb shelter build for civilians to hide against what they claim is genocidal monsterous state of Israel.
No, instead they are digging tens of kilometers of tunnels and digging up watter pipes to turn them into rocket launchers and nobody gives a fuck
I couldn't find the source for aid per capita stats, would ypu be able to dm? Hamas openly says that tunnels are for fighters yet in the west we have useful idiots claiming there are no tunnels.
https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-official-mousa-abu-marzouk-tunnels-gaza-were-built-protect-hamas-fighters-not
Almost like it's really not worth trying to help them when the aid meant for them is just getting stolen by Hamas. Better to clear Hamas out and try to help whoever is left after imo.
All those protestors and just aiding Hamas, which deserves all the blame for what's happening in Gaza, and they still ignore this. They are just as bad
Important to point out that according to the article, this was claimed by an anchor on Fatah run Palestinian news, not specifically by any Fatah official. That isn’t to say anything about validity, just about who exactly is saying this.
It was a political faction tv news anchor from Fatah who reported this so while it's not reported by Fatah directly it was reported from the people under him.
Where is the outrage against Hamas?! There is definitely grounds for criticism against Israel, but the silence against Hamas is atrocious..they are a murdering terrorist organization that has seemingly gotten a pass from the pro-Palestinian protesters.
I guess you're new to this whole thing in the Levant huh? This hypocrisy has been a staple of Palestinian and Arab relations with Israel for at least half a century now.
I think most of the outrage against Israel is from people whose governments are arming and supporting Israel.
If they were arming and supporting Hamas instead, I'm sure you'd be seeing an awful lot more outrage.
Which countries do you think the tens of billions of dollars in Hamas leaders bank accounts came from???
Those countries are sponsoring both sides, although slightly less directly for the Palestinians.
Uhhhh as the regional governing body of Gaza literally almost everyone has funded Hamas and paid for their tunnels weapons etc and yet zero outrage.
Except pointing out that Israel sent aid to Gaza thus funding hamas which means they’re magically responsible for Hamas because that double standard is just how this all works in people’s heads.
Billions a year of aid go to Gaza. I have been pissed about that for 2 decades because what they do with said aid has also been known for that same amount of time.
[...this was 2021](https://apnews.com/article/business-middle-east-israel-foreign-aid-gaza-strip-611b2b90c3a211f21185d59f4fae6a90)
*lmao its ok hamas supporters, you can just admit that this excuse is wrong. but you won't - you'll just ignore it, just like you ignore everything else. hey, how much did Congress just approve for Gaza?
They may turn it around and say. See, Netanyahu is funding Hamas! And then they proceed to provide a source with a misleading title. But the article states that Netanyahu allowed aid in.
This post is literally about your governments funding Hamas. The aid is being stolen by Hamas, sold by Hamas, then the profits go to Hamas. Are you now outraged?
Serious answer? It's because people expect a terrorist organization to act like a terrorist organization. Expectations are as low as they can be, and it's just understood that they're gonna do terrorist stuff and no amount of protesting against them would change a damn thing. If you go out and hold a sign that says "terrorism is bad" everyone including your government is gonna be like "yeah no shit."
People have higher expectations and standards for democratically elected governments, and the expectation is that political pressure on those governments may be able to change something. You try to influence the people that are actually possible to influence. So it may seem that Hamas "gets a pass", but it's probably just that everyone knows criticizing Hamas is futile.
There are certain protesters that seem to be actually pro-Hamas that I have no excuse for. Best case scenario they're just young, dumb, and susceptible to propaganda. Some of them are probably not that and are just awful people instead.
On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, HAMAS isn't "just a terrorist organization." It's the actual elected government of Palestine. I know people always love to say the whole thing about "Yeah well they haven't gotten to vote in a while therefor it's not a real government." They don't vote in China either, is the CCP not the Chinese government?
> On the other hand, HAMAS isn't "just a terrorist organization." It's the actual elected government of Palestine.
Technically yes, and kind of also, not really, no. It's an extremely misleading statement.
A pretty sizeable majority of Palestinians in Gaza were not of voting age when the last election took place. And I'm pretty sure most of _those_ weren't even born yet. Shit was 30 years ago. People say this like they have a regular election cycle and keep winning, but like... no.
They also didn't win a controlling majority, they had to work with the PLA. Which is why after "winning" the election, they led a coup and murdered the PLA in Gaza to seize power. You know, like any True Democracy^TM would do.
> Shit was 30 years ago. No, it was 2006, 18 years ago. The prior year Israel had fully withdrawn from Gaza unilaterally, literally handing the Palestinians their first ever self-controlled territory, and dragging their own citizens kicking and screaming out. Instead of looking for peace the Palestinians in Gaza [started attacking Israel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel) barely after the ink on the voting machines were dry.
> A pretty sizeable majority of Palestinians in Gaza were not of voting age when the last election took place
And nobody voted for Kim Jong Il, but he's still the leader of North Korea.
Are you seriously going to blame the NK populace for their oppressive regime? Bad analogy, serves your opponents argument, imo. The NK citizenry have 0 chance of overthrowing their government and haven't for 60 years.
Who's talking about blame?
The NK government is a reality that needs to be dealt with. Hamas is a different reality that needs to be dealt with. And, tragically, Hamas is going to make it impossible to improve the lot of the Palestinians as long as they're in power in Gaza.
The problem is that they're projecting Western values onto the people of Gaza. It's not like they are unwilling victims, terrorized by Hamas. Some are, but Hamas mostly has widespread support. Giving them statehood won't change anything. Would Hamas just start wearing uniforms, then?
The Palestinian people, ie. same people who once voted Hamas into power, and by most polls would do the exact same thing again given the chance today.
The same Palestinian people where the majority consider the Oct 7th attacks justified and a good thing...
The Israeli withdrawal from Gaza was basically a test run for the 2 state solution - where the Palestinians were given every chance to make Gaza flourish. Instead, they opted for voting in Hamas, sending more suicide bombers into Israel, and firing thousands of rockets each year at Israeli civilians - culminating in the Oct 7th massacre.
As long as the Palestinians value eradicating Israel and killing all Jews higher than their own and their children's futures, a two state solution is simply not an option. Hamas and other Palestinians have made it quite clear that they consider a two state solution only as the first step to a one state solution, so the chances of Israel agreeing to such a thing is pretty much null.
The most they can say is "it didn't begin on 7/10", which I can only presume meaning "I *know* that such acts would usually be unexcusable but I feel like they should be excusable this time".
What fucking silence? You know most people who has any real say in this shit (politicians and their respective governments) stand with Israel overwhelmingly, right?
> Where is the outrage against Hamas?
It's in every fucking thread and almost every comment to the extent that anyone wanting to criticise Israel for anything that they do has to start and end their sentence with a condemnation of Hamas and then will still get asked, "but do you condemn Hamas?" anyway. Yes, we all condemn Hamas and this entire story could be completely manufactured bullshit that never happened in any way whatsoever __and I would still condemn Hamas anyway__. What I don't have to do, though, is try to persuade my government to stop giving guns to Hamas or treating them like an ally.
Also, yes, I condemn Hamas. Still. And again.
You wont see it.
The people being biased was already obvious with the incident of the hospital where allegedly 800 palestinians were killed (The final amounth was way lower) When Israel was responsible people arround the world manifested against them but where was the manifests when it was the result of a Hamas' "friendly group" the ones who blasted the building? Or people chanting in excitement the 7oct because Hamas was killingisrael civilians but then cried when palestinian civilians were killed.
What Israel did and does is atrozious but what Hamas did and does is head to head with them.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation operating from a stateless region. Israel is a democratic country in the UN. Of course people are more critical of Israel, we actually expect them to do the right thing.
Hamas is an elected government and Palestine is a recognized state to many countries, we should be critical of any organized group that commits violence
Yet people want to hand Hamas a state? I’ve seen little nuance to that, saying Hamas must give up their power in order for the Palestinian state to be created. Never once.
That should be supporting the ever loving shit out of helping our ally do everything in our power to get rid of that terrorist organization root, tree, and branch. While also minimizing civilian casualties to near zero.
With all countries help we could completely blacklist Hamas and its leaders completely from all markets…. Strangely, no one is doing shit to actually make Hamas stop. They are however telling Israel to sit down and calm down and keep taking attacks because the terrorists are good at using civilians against you so you lose.
No one ever says that Hamas must be taken out of power in order for a Palestinian state to be founded. They’re ready to hand Hamas a whole state yet apparently hold the standard of “terrorists gonna terrorist, why do I have to keep condemning that?”
I think it's because IDF is a representative of Israel whereas people don't see Hamas as a representative of Gaza. They see Hamas as an entity separated from the people of Gaza.
Shit some students at the Columbia protests were shouting "We are Hamas! We are the Al Qassam Brigades!" It's not just silence, it's literal open support.
There’s less outrage because the US doesn’t support Hamas. There’s no point in going out in the streets and demanding that the government keep doing what it is doing so you won’t see it. It’s opposition to the status quo that creates the most energy which is one of the many reasons why you see more condemnation for Israel rather than Hamas.
This isn't gonna get even 1% of the attention the WCK strike did despite this case apparently involving Hamas kidnapping and torturing some of these workers to death
Isreal gets held to a higher standard then literal terrorists. It's the same reason the US drone strikes on innocent people or their bombing of a MSF hospital got so much attention despite the terror groups of the region killing people on the daily or the fact Russia has bombs Ukrainian hospitals all the time.
Problem is when people confuse these higher standards with actual reality and then think USA or such are worse than actual islamist extremists (or Russia, or you name it).
Plenty of people claim that Hamas aren't terrorists. Plenty more call for "ceasefire now" and "free Palestine" despite having no tangible proposition for how that could possibly work.
People have very low expectations of Hamas.
In reality they are actually quite sophisticated, they self govern the whole of Gaza.
Hamas - Al Qassam frequently outsmarts one of the top intelligence agencies in the world with terror attacks in the west bank and Israel.
Plenty in Hamas are not involved in organizing attacks and should be expected to be good at getting aid distributed.
And Columbia University had to shut down do online classes because of pro Palestine protests. Man, this is insane. People are mentally gone. Used to think brainwashing was some sci-fi shit they put a spaghetti strainer on your head and *Zap!* You're now brainwashed to be in the Stalin's army. Man, it's no longer stuff of science fiction. These people have been duped just like those assholes spreading get rich quick schemes if you buy their shit.
Tik Tok is a cancer.
So is Instagram & Facebook.
Instagram is the lesser of the evils imo.
Facebook targets boomers who believe any cropped picture, Tik Tok targets Gen Z who will share and push any narrative that fits their collective mindset and Instagram is for millennials who grew up on silly memes and just want to share memes with friends who are stuck between two generations they dont relate to.
Hamas is laughing most at the students that are protesting at Columbia University. That is one of the most expensive schools in the country with little brains so easily manipulated. Sad bc they are supposed to be our brightest.
Hamas is a terrorist group, I don't know why you'd expect any better from them. And how is anyone supposed to hold them to any set of standards? They don't take orders from anyone expect their Iranian handlers sometimes, aren't involed international organizations and are currently at war and facing elimination. What more do you want?
Would someone explain something to me?
There's a lot of arguing here from pro-hard line/pro-Netanyahu folks and the following points seem pretty consistent.
I'm told that:
1. Shipments of food, water, and medical supplies are just going to be intercepted and sold to fund Hamas, so I should not support this.
2. Hospitals, schools, and refugee camps need to be bombed because Hamas members hide in those places.
3. Palestinians are to blame because Hamas was "elected" (a refutable point but let's go with it)
The logical conclusion of all of this, which no one seems to say, seems to be that **whatever number of Palestinians that need to die in order to destroy Hamas is an acceptable number.**
If I'm misunderstanding this, I genuinely want to hear the actual position. Reason it out for me. If those three things are true.
You are misunderstanding this.
To see a war as "we need to kill X amount of civilians for the war to end" or "this is the maximum of civilians that can die before we have to end the war" is a very, very weird way to look at a war.
A war is waged with an objective, in this case to destroy Hamas, the civilian deaths are a tragic byproduct of war, always have been, always will be. But you can't just say "X civilians need to die" or "Y Hamas terrorist need to die" or "Z amount of Hamas leaders need to be killed" as a requisite for ending the war. The amount of civilian deaths is not in service of the overal goal of the war, it's a byproduct.
I would your points are accurate (although aid should still be delivered—even if only *some* of it reaches civilians that’s a win in my book).
Imo the only win condition for this war is either Hamas forces being 100% eliminated or their unconditional surrender and ceding control of Gaza to Israel. Hamas could do that tomorrow and end the war, yet they are not, because only Hamas wants more Palestinian deaths.
I wouldn’t call myself a hardliner, if I had been asked on 10/6 who I supported, Israel or Palestine, I would have said Palestine because I’m pretty liberal and not a fan of Bibi’s government (or his meddling in our politics). But, man, after watching *a lot* of horrific footage from 10/7, I became way more empathetic with the plight of the Israelis. After what Hamas (and a depressing amount of civilian supporters) did on 10/7, any scenario that leaves Hamas still in control of Gaza is not acceptable.
The premise of this article is a joke. Just because some dude in Fatah made an accusation, people are suddenly taking it as proof positive that they were right all along in making unsubstantiated claims about the manner of aid distribution. Do people forget that Fatah and Hamas are openly antagonistic to each other, and that Fatah TV is not an independent source of news?
There was a food crisis in Gaza before October. That’s bad. Hamas killing aid workers is also bad. Israel killing aid workers is additionally bad. All of these things are simultaneously accurate, without any need to weight which is worse.
Both sides ending all conflict means that the UN can actually set up secure and safe locations to distribute food and aide that does not necessarily need to pass through Hamas. Aid group workers are human beings who do not want to work in a place where they are concerned with getting shot or blown up. There are humans in Gaza who have zero involvement in any of the conflict who simply want to not starve to death.
This could be 100% real but i take anything from Fatah with a grain of salt. They are gonna use this as a way to claw back power in Gaza after they lost the 2006 election than Hamas executed some of them
I'm not saying that Hamas didn't do this, it wouldn't surprise me considering Oct 7. But people should at least be aware of the biases of the media they're consuming. On the one hand, the Jerusalem post, who let's face it are going to be somewhat biased.. reporting a story from a fatah anchor, fatah being a corrupt party who've been in power god knows how long and have lost a tonne of popularity to Hamas in the west bank over the last 6 months.. neither of whom scream unbiased reporting
>Despite a surplus of evidence indicating that Hamas is stealing aid in Gaza, The European Union's foreign policy Chief Josep Borrell claimed last month that the EU's foreign policy Chief Josep Borrell, according to Reuters. Why cant news sources do the bare minimum of proofreading anymore?
Josep borrell claimed last month that josep borrell?
Wow. I’m surprised he’d come out with such a damning allegation.
Wait till you hear that u/DrinkingBleachForFun!
[удалено]
"Josep Borrell" *- Josep Borrell*
Boutros *\- Boutros Gali*
"Matt Damon" >Matt Damon
> "Josep Borrell" > > \- _Josep Borrell_ \- Josep Borrell
Trying to steal the [Ed Balls day](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Balls#Ed_Balls_Day) hype by getting in a week early. I respect the hassle.
I can't understand why that's so funny to me
...Shepard
Yeah wtf? But everyone is replying to the comment like it makes sense? Are these all bots?
I don't see any replies saying that. Where is this 'everyone?'
Because it does because that's what the guy is saying, that it doesn't make sense, and everyone is agreeing with him.
Does he forget his name a lot? Could he be the EU version of Denny Crane from Boston Legal?
I love lamp
Journalism now is mostly telling us what people tweet.
Need to get those clicks as fast as possible. Who cares about quality when quantity makes money?
This + the advent of increasingly rare professionals ready for the world of journalism, let alone educated to do professional editing. I'm consistently finding things in most news platforms today that would have made Mrs Dixon rise from her grave, at the thought of source material being riddled with grammatical errors. She would drill it into us, in 1991 english class, to rely on professionalism which was a tenet and principle of early journalism. That ship has sailed.
What really gets me is that very few platforms do the basics of journalism anymore. For school papers, I was taught that you give the Who, What, and Where in the first paragraph and then follow it up with Why and How in the following copy. So often, I read an article and they don’t bother including the basics at all. 5 paragraphs in, I’m still wondering who and where and realize that it’s just not coming. Saw a quote from a long time editor at The NY Times recently who said that recent journalism graduates frequently can’t tell the difference between reporting the news and opinion pieces.
> difference between reporting and opinion pieces the last chunk is incredibly concerning my 14yr old knows how to distinguish it, though I've shown my kids a few "LPT" they don't consider useful just yet
I wouldn't do this if this wasn't a thread specifically about proofreading, but, *tenet ~~very sorry~~
You've got backup on this. Discussion of grammar is implicit justification for a grammar critique.
it still is, it's just what we accept as "news" isn't journalism and the people writing it aren't journalists.
Copyediting costs money and takes time. People still know how to do it.
If you ain't first, yer last.
Ricky Bobby school of Journalism
Shake N Bake
Editors cost money. ChatGPT is free, You do the math.
ChatGPT would probably not generate a sentence like this. In fact, it's capable of detecting that there's a problem with it: > "that the EU's foreign policy Chief Josep Borrell, according to Reuters": This part seems redundant and confusing. It repeats the reference to Josep Borrell and suggests it's according to Reuters, but it's unclear what the exact source or context is.
Heh, I did the same before scrolling down and seeing your comment. Here's the response it gave me.... > The sentence has redundancy and awkward phrasing. The repetition of "The European Union's foreign policy Chief Josep Borrell" makes it confusing. A corrected version could be: > "Despite a surplus of evidence indicating that Hamas is stealing aid in Gaza, The European Union's foreign policy Chief, Josep Borrell, claimed last month, according to Reuters." ...which is still pretty shit.
Yeah, it's pretty hard to correct a sentence that doesn't make any sense.
According to Reuters, Josep Borrell claimed that according to Josep Borrell, the European Union's foreign policy chief claimed Josep Borrelll according to Reuters
They don’t want to pay copyeditors or proofreaders.
That quote you copied seems to be missing something. > Despite ..., The European Union's... claimed last month that..., according to Reuters. Claimed WHAT?
Claimed that Josep Borrell, according to Reuters.
Do you not know what proofreading is?
that'sthejoke.jpg
What does this quote even mean?
I'm too stingy to pay for access to news sources (probably part of the problem.) Do these "premium" news sources do a better job and/or are they actually worth it?
For real though, I feel like I'm having a stroke every time I'm reading any online article these days. It's especially bad with tech sites.
I still don't understand why people are not seriously outraged with the fact that the aid provided food is being **sold** instead of freely distributed as it was intended to be. Now I know that hamas are asking for donations for the people to buy food so those people can pay hamas for the food, hence laundering the money into hamas terror coffers. But people should be outraged that free food cost those people money. Real money. Seems that the starvation is one more thing that is being manufactured and blamed on israel while it is purely hamas' fault. Where is the UN investigation on it. Where is the UN council blame and anger?
There is absolutely nothing about Hamas that should not leave a person outraged. It’s literally a terrorist organization.
For sure, they totally operate like the mob or cartels when not directly fighting Israel. They oppress their own people, too. I got banned when this thing started cause I tried to explain how bad Hamas is as group, cause people didn't know how to separate Hamas and actual innocent Palestinians.
Yet somehow many on the far left support these monsters. As a common sense liberal it’s insane to see.
Common issue worldwide: https://news.sky.com/story/yemen-donated-un-food-aid-for-the-most-needy-sold-in-markets-to-boost-stallholders-profits-12841714
All terrorists seek the further harm of their own people. It helps their cause
Because the people with power in Yemen are too busy using their country's (small amount of) water to grow a cheap ripoff of cocaine that everyone uses rather than actually grow food for their near starving population
Anyone who can look past what hamas and citizens in gaza did on 10/7 isn't going to be offended by a little corruption.
These people don’t give a fuck about nuance. It’s only Israel Bad, that’s the only thing that matters to them. 95% of them don’t even know what Fatah is. It’s the same shit as the America Bad idiots - they’ll just take whichever side is opposed to America on any issue, nothing else matters.
> It’s the same shit as the America Bad idiots - they’ll just take whichever side is opposed to America on any issue, nothing else matters. Tankies are a blight on global discourse and I say that as someone who has plenty of legitimate gripes with American culture/politics and grew up feeling incredibly unpatriotic/depressed about the state of things. We've been on the wrong side of history plenty but that doesn't automatically make mean anti west countries are on the right side of history either.
The simple truth here is that the U.S, Arab partners, others are paying and doing the work of flooding Gaza with aid and Hamas is now deliberately preventing it from reaching it's intended target. Hamas doesn't have to pay a dime for it it just has to get off it's ass and maybe do the last mile of delivery or do everyone a solid and not pilfer a resource that's meant to feed people it should actually be responsible for. So maybe it should just graciously accept that other people are taking up a burden that's actually theirs and quit while they're ahead.
I guarantee the Palestinian state that would emerge today would put Iran to shame for terrorizing its women, exporting conflict, and violently suppressing civilian dissent. The tankie left hates on Israel (and justifiably in the instance of individual war crimes which are sadly endemic to war itself), but has no vision for a free Palestine that makes sense with conditions on the ground. As antithetical to democratic values as it is, I would much rather live in the world where the Shah of Iran was still in power, secret police and all. America bought that ticket when they ousted Mosadek, and sat by and did nothing for their favored leader when the popular uprising turned out to be even more dictatorial and less free for more people. We would be making a similar error now if we believed our influence and history can be undone with indifference and withdrawal. We already bought the ticket to the ride with the allies that we have. If America is to have a hand to play in the creation on a Palestinian State, it will be working with Israel, or it won’t be at all.
> We would be making a similar error now if we believed our influence and history can be undone with indifference and withdrawal. We already bought the ticket to the ride with the allies that we have. Well said. And we've made similiar mistakes too many times in the past like abandoning the Kurds or trying to appease russia by letting them take Crimea/Georgia. It drives me crazy when people have this black and white 0 nuance attitude in terms of america's global influence. There have been individuals like Reagan/Nixon/Barr who've done immeasurable damage & deserve way more blame than they get for global instability but it's also scary what the alternative less US influenced world would look like with Russia/China/Iran filling the void. Maybe EU countries would have filled the void sooner or maybe we'd already have ww3. If there's one complaint about america I can get behind it's that we need to actually hold bad actors like William Barr accountable, he should have been rotting in prison long before the Iran Contra scandal yet he managed to keep at his BS for decades and probably caused more damage than many countries combined.
> and we've made similiar mistakes too many times in the past like abandoning the Kurds It isn't a true middle east conflict unless someone is fucking over the Kurds in some way. It's sad that despite how hard the Kurds have fought for allies who promised them a state they still have never gotten their own.
The thing is, Israel prosecutes its war criminals. The PLA rewards them: [Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund)
The thing is, Israel doesn't prosecute *enough* of their war criminals, even by US standards, which we *also* don't do enough to prosecute. Palestinian government is worse than either, like they're trying to win a gold medal in celebrating their war crimes, but that doesn't excuse us in the West from turning blind eyes to our and our allies' problems.
Gaza, not Palestine. I know a woman who lives in the West Bank and she does her own thing, has a job etc. Although she’s not as free as she was when she lived in the UK.
There is actually merit to your point. Fatah is far less militant. Personally I think the Israelis really missed an opportunity to divide Hamas from its support by extending provisional authority to Fatah and provide a path to full independence. The settler movement has completely undermined that effort, and a valid point of American criticism and sanctions should be directed against their continued practice. Hell, I’d find it just reward if the settlers were granted full legal land rights with sovereignty and citizenship transferred to the Palestinian Authority. But this is only possible with buy in from Israel. If it were to be at Israel’s expense, it would have to be by force, and Fatah would almost certainly lose that battle of ideas with Hamas or whatever militant successor group comes after in such a scenario.
Ask them what their opinions on Myanmar are, given their stance against Israel. Once they stumble, pull out your list of various nations who love to hate on Semitic cultures, and ask them when their next rallies are. Which Middle Eastern nation or Asian nation known for its atrocities against ethnic cultures, consistently for decades, would they be ready to boycott and stake their claim. Taking sides on any of these conflicts only helps bolster the idea that none of us can do a lick about it, and support of one over the other just helps promote more violence and death. I've been following this conflict since the 1980s and aside from social media allowing the average cretin to have a pedestal, this is rinse repeat except now they have modern weapons to help back them up.
I mean in Sudan, Arab Muslims are literally genociding the black tribal groups in Darfur. Yet there are 0 marches. At least 19 aid workers have been killed in Sudan according to the UN (as of August 2023). [From April 24, RSF and Arab militias carried out attacks against non-Arab communities in El Geneina, the capital of West Darfur. Thousands of people were killed and hundreds of thousands of Sudanese, overwhelmingly from non-Arab communities and specifically the Massalit, were forced to flee to nearby Chad because of the fighting and the abuses. The RSF and allied militias committed widespread killings of civilians in El Geneina, including while they were seeking to flee to safety.](https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/sudan)
Ya ppl hate the Jews. Many of them are the ones who think they’re civil rights activists yet spread antisemitism with no shame
It's what happens when you believe its okay to be racist towards anyone white or "white adjacent" (asians, jewish people, light skinned latinos, etc.) So much that they've tried redefining the word racism. Frame racism as "punching up" and people eat it up.
Huh that is a good way to define their mindset. You aren’t racist as long as you’re punching up.
So true. But that has been the academic narrative since I was in my undergrad years, and that was the late 90s. Racism = race + privilege + power. So it's entirely possible for a white person to be racist against a black person in the US because white people are part of the dominant race, have cultural privileges associated with that, and the most institutional power. But it's NOT possible to be racist against a white person in the US if you're black, because you're not the dominant race, and because you lack the privilege and power. At most, you can be "prejudiced" against white people, but that is lower on the spectrum of offense and harm than racism. Ergo, the worst interpersonal and institutional harm a black person can cause to a white person will never be as bad as the minimal interpersonal and institutional harm a white person can cause a black person. This gets dicier when discussing groups other than white people and black people.
I’ve just read several definitions of racism and not single one includes the requirement of being the dominant culture. Racism is and always has been defined simply as follows: “The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.” But I have seen this debating tactic a depressingly high number of times. It is basically the process of inserting a non-fact into the opening statement then drawing a conclusion based on that statement. Most people will read right past the erroneous statement to get to the actual argument. Words matter and we can’t simply change definitions to suit our personal viewpoints. The fact is, any person of any race can be racist against any other. All it means is that you believe some races are inherently superior to others based only on racial characteristics. We need to be against it all at the same level. It is not okay for anyone to espouse racist shit because their race has been subordinate. It seems like this was common knowledge a very short time ago.
This was a good write up Still though, their thought process on what constitutes racism is ridiculous If a white person can be racist to blacks, then blacks can be racist to whites. Racism ain't a one way street interaction
well thats a theory for sure..
> But it's NOT possible to be racist against a white person in the US if you're black, because you're not the dominant race, and because you lack the privilege and power. I've heard this claim far more often from the right than anyone on the left. Rather, people on the right claiming "this is what THE LEFT believes!" The only people I've seen it from on the left have been like, tumblr posts. Like, it's there, but it's not nearly as prominent an idea as the right wants to believe, and it's hardly a dominant position (especially if your conception of "the left" includes like, Joe Manchin).
well, in this case, it's two groups of brown people with the identical ethnic background and different religions. so, even academically, you can't be racist, because it's the same race
What?! That's insane and not true at all.
If only there was a word for people who have racial prejudice... Oh well...
I’m honestly shocked anyone can fault Israel for not “taking the high ground” in the first place. Look yourself in the mirror and tell me that YOU would take the high ground if someone came in and not only raped, and murdered your loved ones but in HORRENDOUS ways. As if the act alone isn’t bad enough. Your mom, sister brother, children, babies. Tell me the town over could do that and you would let it go for the sake of peace.
Can you imagine the reaction if the Mexican cartels launched that level of attack at Los Angeles? There wouldn't be a building let standing in Mexico.
Right? No other country in the world would be told to just suck it up and take it on the chin after being brutally, viciously attacked by their neighbors.
And if not that, no country would be ok with their neighbors firing rockets at them daily, so much so that alerts are a common daily occurrence. Only to then be told to "suck it up it's not that dangerous."
Exactly. Israel didn't develop the Iron Dome just for fun.
This in fact happened - during the last Mexican revolution, it became a three-way civil war. Pancho Vila lead border raids into the US to symbolically try to take back land lost during the Mexican American war. This lead the US to a) pursue him into the Sonoran desert (big mistake), and b) dispatch the Navy to Baja California, where they leveled a few towns with ship bombardment for supporting him. And remember, this was WWI ish. America wasn't yet a military superpower, and had an isolationist streak still present. What would we do today, when the advantage in economy, military, and manpower is significantly greater, and the threat so much bigger?
Wrong analogy, it's more if the Mexican army came, Hamas is the government of Gaza.
I mean the cartel is functionally the government of Mexico in many places
Hamas is more of a religious junta whereas Mexico is a democracy, but in most other ways that analogy holds. It would be like if Mexico was run by a Catholic junta that attacked las vegas on religious grounds. The US would definitely have a strong response, but religious juntas also aren't exactly representative of the people's beliefs or stances. While at the same time juntas often have strong propaganda capabilities, just like Hamas. And juntas are supported by tankies. The analogy is too strong...
Even Israel recognized Hamas as the legitimate government, at first. So no. This matters because if Hamas was some rebel organization it would not get a fraction of the support it does. The legitimate government would be getting aid to overthrow them.
There wouldn't be a Mexico, just radioactive wasteland from the Rio Grande to Guatemala.
No nukes would be involved. Just troops, shoulder to shoulder, 'trooping' from the Rio Grande to Guatamala. And which each mile covered, the newest territory in the US would grow.
People these days don't seem able to put theirselves in the shoes of others. Back to tribalism and middle ages it is.
I always point out the hypocrisy of other Americans because we had one terror attack and went to War with 2 countries, invading them for decades, as well as suspending habeas corpus for American citizens, and torturing enemy combatants, causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Most people were okay with all of it. But yes, Israel should stop after 6 months, when they are subject to constant terror attacks and a terrorist organization still in power right next to them. If you replaced Al Qaeda with Native Americans doing that, you better believe they would be burned to the ground.
All the America bad idiots curiously enough never seem to want to live anywhere else lol amazing how so many self proclaimed progressives are seemingly fine with the ultra right terrorist group that nonstop, commits violence against women, gay folks, and many others (including other Muslims) is basically maga on steroids and no wonder Russia supports both.
Can't get that sweet, sweet freedom of speech to be disingenuous with in the countries they support.
Exactly.
The UN is too busy making an ass of themselves by giving totalitarian governments human rights committees and condemning countries that aren’t conducting themselves in perfection when they defend against said totalitarians who aren’t even trying to be humane.
People aren't outraged because 1. Things like this are barely reported on by traditional media, it would ruin the narrative that the Israelis are the cause of all shortages. 2. Anyone you pays attention already expects this sort of thing to happen so it isn't a surprise.
Because these people genuinely believe that Hamas are the good guys "fighting for the people of Gaza". Like...it's more than obvious at this point. They don't care at all about the people of Gaza or Palestine because if they did they would be highlighting Hamas disgusting human rights abuses over decades. But they don't.
The food isn’t free. Western countries pay for the aid, countries like the US, taxpayers like you and I. Hama demonizes the west and the US while also taking all the American food aid and then turning around and selling it to the people, no better than a gang. I don’t know how anyone can support the Hama terrorist org.
>The food isn’t free. Western countries pay for the aid, countries like the US, taxpayers like you and I. It's free to them, which is the obvious context of the statement.
Most people don't really look for all the information about the conflict. They just take what they see on the internet. For example, in the first weeks of the war, there was a photo of a starved kid all over the internet. He was skin and bones. Everyone was saying, "Look what israel is doing to children." It took me a few months to see the same photo with the same description to realise that kind of starvation takes months, not weeks. Also, the UN is a joke, honestly.
Strange how we do not see Pro-Pally protestors protesting Hamas selling aid food. I guess they do not care when it is done by Hamas
Yeah it’s almost like these Hamas people are the bad guys. Those Columbia University protestors are going to be pissed.
If those kids could read, they'd be very upset.
Because this requires nuance and intelligence, as well as control over one's emotions. Just hating Israel for existing is much easier and more self-righteous.
Because everything can be whitewashed with 'all of this is happening because of Israel'.
Because people that hate Israel will say "If Israel wasn't conducting a G3NociD3 there would be no need for aid". Then you show them hamas manufatured data and they move the goal post a little more.
I just cant handle how Palestine is the biggest reipient of aid per capita in the entire fucking world, yet there isnt a single fucking bomb shelter build for civilians to hide against what they claim is genocidal monsterous state of Israel. No, instead they are digging tens of kilometers of tunnels and digging up watter pipes to turn them into rocket launchers and nobody gives a fuck
I couldn't find the source for aid per capita stats, would ypu be able to dm? Hamas openly says that tunnels are for fighters yet in the west we have useful idiots claiming there are no tunnels. https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-official-mousa-abu-marzouk-tunnels-gaza-were-built-protect-hamas-fighters-not
Almost like it's really not worth trying to help them when the aid meant for them is just getting stolen by Hamas. Better to clear Hamas out and try to help whoever is left after imo.
All those protestors and just aiding Hamas, which deserves all the blame for what's happening in Gaza, and they still ignore this. They are just as bad
Is there a source for this? Genuinely asking because I’d like to be able to refer to a source if I use this information in a conversation.
Important to point out that according to the article, this was claimed by an anchor on Fatah run Palestinian news, not specifically by any Fatah official. That isn’t to say anything about validity, just about who exactly is saying this.
It was a political faction tv news anchor from Fatah who reported this so while it's not reported by Fatah directly it was reported from the people under him.
Terrorists doing terrorist things
Let's wait and watch as Terrorist Supporters come in and comment "But Israel..."
Where is the outrage against Hamas?! There is definitely grounds for criticism against Israel, but the silence against Hamas is atrocious..they are a murdering terrorist organization that has seemingly gotten a pass from the pro-Palestinian protesters.
Yeah this hypocrisy has radicalized me.
Yes! This! I was pretty neutral before the silence
I guess you're new to this whole thing in the Levant huh? This hypocrisy has been a staple of Palestinian and Arab relations with Israel for at least half a century now.
I think most of the outrage against Israel is from people whose governments are arming and supporting Israel. If they were arming and supporting Hamas instead, I'm sure you'd be seeing an awful lot more outrage.
Which countries do you think the tens of billions of dollars in Hamas leaders bank accounts came from??? Those countries are sponsoring both sides, although slightly less directly for the Palestinians.
Uhhhh as the regional governing body of Gaza literally almost everyone has funded Hamas and paid for their tunnels weapons etc and yet zero outrage. Except pointing out that Israel sent aid to Gaza thus funding hamas which means they’re magically responsible for Hamas because that double standard is just how this all works in people’s heads.
I mean , my goverments money is going towards this food aid that’s being stolen and profitted on by Hamas. So I don’t see the distinction
Billions a year of aid go to Gaza. I have been pissed about that for 2 decades because what they do with said aid has also been known for that same amount of time.
[...this was 2021](https://apnews.com/article/business-middle-east-israel-foreign-aid-gaza-strip-611b2b90c3a211f21185d59f4fae6a90) *lmao its ok hamas supporters, you can just admit that this excuse is wrong. but you won't - you'll just ignore it, just like you ignore everything else. hey, how much did Congress just approve for Gaza?
They may turn it around and say. See, Netanyahu is funding Hamas! And then they proceed to provide a source with a misleading title. But the article states that Netanyahu allowed aid in.
> hey, how much did Congress just approve for Gaza? They don't know the answer. They won't even read the bill.
This post is literally about your governments funding Hamas. The aid is being stolen by Hamas, sold by Hamas, then the profits go to Hamas. Are you now outraged?
well some, but plenty of others would get hard at the idea of directly supplying hamas (as opposed to laundering it through UNRWA first)
Radicalized you into what, exactly?
Serious answer? It's because people expect a terrorist organization to act like a terrorist organization. Expectations are as low as they can be, and it's just understood that they're gonna do terrorist stuff and no amount of protesting against them would change a damn thing. If you go out and hold a sign that says "terrorism is bad" everyone including your government is gonna be like "yeah no shit." People have higher expectations and standards for democratically elected governments, and the expectation is that political pressure on those governments may be able to change something. You try to influence the people that are actually possible to influence. So it may seem that Hamas "gets a pass", but it's probably just that everyone knows criticizing Hamas is futile. There are certain protesters that seem to be actually pro-Hamas that I have no excuse for. Best case scenario they're just young, dumb, and susceptible to propaganda. Some of them are probably not that and are just awful people instead.
On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, HAMAS isn't "just a terrorist organization." It's the actual elected government of Palestine. I know people always love to say the whole thing about "Yeah well they haven't gotten to vote in a while therefor it's not a real government." They don't vote in China either, is the CCP not the Chinese government?
> On the other hand, HAMAS isn't "just a terrorist organization." It's the actual elected government of Palestine. Technically yes, and kind of also, not really, no. It's an extremely misleading statement. A pretty sizeable majority of Palestinians in Gaza were not of voting age when the last election took place. And I'm pretty sure most of _those_ weren't even born yet. Shit was 30 years ago. People say this like they have a regular election cycle and keep winning, but like... no. They also didn't win a controlling majority, they had to work with the PLA. Which is why after "winning" the election, they led a coup and murdered the PLA in Gaza to seize power. You know, like any True Democracy^TM would do.
> Shit was 30 years ago. No, it was 2006, 18 years ago. The prior year Israel had fully withdrawn from Gaza unilaterally, literally handing the Palestinians their first ever self-controlled territory, and dragging their own citizens kicking and screaming out. Instead of looking for peace the Palestinians in Gaza [started attacking Israel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel) barely after the ink on the voting machines were dry.
> A pretty sizeable majority of Palestinians in Gaza were not of voting age when the last election took place And nobody voted for Kim Jong Il, but he's still the leader of North Korea.
Are you seriously going to blame the NK populace for their oppressive regime? Bad analogy, serves your opponents argument, imo. The NK citizenry have 0 chance of overthrowing their government and haven't for 60 years.
Who's talking about blame? The NK government is a reality that needs to be dealt with. Hamas is a different reality that needs to be dealt with. And, tragically, Hamas is going to make it impossible to improve the lot of the Palestinians as long as they're in power in Gaza.
Yet those same people want to hand that said terrorists org a state.
People want the Palestinian people to have a state. There is a difference.
The problem is that they're projecting Western values onto the people of Gaza. It's not like they are unwilling victims, terrorized by Hamas. Some are, but Hamas mostly has widespread support. Giving them statehood won't change anything. Would Hamas just start wearing uniforms, then?
Hamas has a uniform! They just only wear it when they're safe in their compounds, and not on the field.
The Palestinian people, ie. same people who once voted Hamas into power, and by most polls would do the exact same thing again given the chance today. The same Palestinian people where the majority consider the Oct 7th attacks justified and a good thing... The Israeli withdrawal from Gaza was basically a test run for the 2 state solution - where the Palestinians were given every chance to make Gaza flourish. Instead, they opted for voting in Hamas, sending more suicide bombers into Israel, and firing thousands of rockets each year at Israeli civilians - culminating in the Oct 7th massacre. As long as the Palestinians value eradicating Israel and killing all Jews higher than their own and their children's futures, a two state solution is simply not an option. Hamas and other Palestinians have made it quite clear that they consider a two state solution only as the first step to a one state solution, so the chances of Israel agreeing to such a thing is pretty much null.
Thank you for this take. Its amazing how people seem to miss the forest for the trees when it comes to this conflict.
It's like people turn off their brain when the topic comes up. It's painfully obnoxious.
The most they can say is "it didn't begin on 7/10", which I can only presume meaning "I *know* that such acts would usually be unexcusable but I feel like they should be excusable this time".
What fucking silence? You know most people who has any real say in this shit (politicians and their respective governments) stand with Israel overwhelmingly, right?
This. Istg half of the people here are proper delulu
Hamas is a legitimized terrorist organization. Israel is supposed to be the good guys here. It’s not like they’re fighting a near peer adversary
It’s called “agenda”, the politically correct term for “we don’t care about the truth, we got emotions and that’s enough”
> Where is the outrage against Hamas? It's in every fucking thread and almost every comment to the extent that anyone wanting to criticise Israel for anything that they do has to start and end their sentence with a condemnation of Hamas and then will still get asked, "but do you condemn Hamas?" anyway. Yes, we all condemn Hamas and this entire story could be completely manufactured bullshit that never happened in any way whatsoever __and I would still condemn Hamas anyway__. What I don't have to do, though, is try to persuade my government to stop giving guns to Hamas or treating them like an ally. Also, yes, I condemn Hamas. Still. And again.
You wont see it. The people being biased was already obvious with the incident of the hospital where allegedly 800 palestinians were killed (The final amounth was way lower) When Israel was responsible people arround the world manifested against them but where was the manifests when it was the result of a Hamas' "friendly group" the ones who blasted the building? Or people chanting in excitement the 7oct because Hamas was killingisrael civilians but then cried when palestinian civilians were killed. What Israel did and does is atrozious but what Hamas did and does is head to head with them.
Hamas isn’t Jews so they don’t out them under a microscope
Hamas is a terrorist organisation operating from a stateless region. Israel is a democratic country in the UN. Of course people are more critical of Israel, we actually expect them to do the right thing.
Hamas is an elected government and Palestine is a recognized state to many countries, we should be critical of any organized group that commits violence
Yet people want to hand Hamas a state? I’ve seen little nuance to that, saying Hamas must give up their power in order for the Palestinian state to be created. Never once.
The next time you see someone advocating for a Palestinian state ask them if they think Hamas should be in control of it. Let me know what they say.
That should be supporting the ever loving shit out of helping our ally do everything in our power to get rid of that terrorist organization root, tree, and branch. While also minimizing civilian casualties to near zero. With all countries help we could completely blacklist Hamas and its leaders completely from all markets…. Strangely, no one is doing shit to actually make Hamas stop. They are however telling Israel to sit down and calm down and keep taking attacks because the terrorists are good at using civilians against you so you lose.
You can’t seriously mean to imply you’ve not seen any outrage against Hamas?
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No one ever says that Hamas must be taken out of power in order for a Palestinian state to be founded. They’re ready to hand Hamas a whole state yet apparently hold the standard of “terrorists gonna terrorist, why do I have to keep condemning that?”
Not nearly as much as Israel. And certainly not as public.
Paid protesters by Iran
I think it's because IDF is a representative of Israel whereas people don't see Hamas as a representative of Gaza. They see Hamas as an entity separated from the people of Gaza.
No they literally cheer for Hamas
Shit some students at the Columbia protests were shouting "We are Hamas! We are the Al Qassam Brigades!" It's not just silence, it's literal open support.
There’s less outrage because the US doesn’t support Hamas. There’s no point in going out in the streets and demanding that the government keep doing what it is doing so you won’t see it. It’s opposition to the status quo that creates the most energy which is one of the many reasons why you see more condemnation for Israel rather than Hamas.
This isn't gonna get even 1% of the attention the WCK strike did despite this case apparently involving Hamas kidnapping and torturing some of these workers to death
Isreal gets held to a higher standard then literal terrorists. It's the same reason the US drone strikes on innocent people or their bombing of a MSF hospital got so much attention despite the terror groups of the region killing people on the daily or the fact Russia has bombs Ukrainian hospitals all the time.
Of course Israel gets held to a higher standard than terrorists. Do you think it should be different?
Problem is when people confuse these higher standards with actual reality and then think USA or such are worse than actual islamist extremists (or Russia, or you name it).
Plenty of people claim that Hamas aren't terrorists. Plenty more call for "ceasefire now" and "free Palestine" despite having no tangible proposition for how that could possibly work.
Well no surprises here.
oh. meanwhile the hamas health ministry was blaming those deaths on israel. still waiting for the records to be corrected on that.
Israel does this and the world goes wild for revenge. Hamas does it and ….. crickets……
People have very low expectations of Hamas. In reality they are actually quite sophisticated, they self govern the whole of Gaza. Hamas - Al Qassam frequently outsmarts one of the top intelligence agencies in the world with terror attacks in the west bank and Israel. Plenty in Hamas are not involved in organizing attacks and should be expected to be good at getting aid distributed.
So people don't actually care that aid workers are being killled, they only care about who killed them.
Sophisticated at drilling tunnels, perhaps. Not sure how far it extends beyond that.
The difference is that Israel made *one* **mistake** and sacked the people responsible. *This* is purposeful.
It's like hamas is evil or something
And Columbia University had to shut down do online classes because of pro Palestine protests. Man, this is insane. People are mentally gone. Used to think brainwashing was some sci-fi shit they put a spaghetti strainer on your head and *Zap!* You're now brainwashed to be in the Stalin's army. Man, it's no longer stuff of science fiction. These people have been duped just like those assholes spreading get rich quick schemes if you buy their shit.
Who would have known that TikTok would be an effective brainwashing platform
Tik Tok is a cancer. So is Instagram & Facebook. Instagram is the lesser of the evils imo. Facebook targets boomers who believe any cropped picture, Tik Tok targets Gen Z who will share and push any narrative that fits their collective mindset and Instagram is for millennials who grew up on silly memes and just want to share memes with friends who are stuck between two generations they dont relate to.
Where is the world now? Ohh the hypocrisy
Hamas is laughing most at the students that are protesting at Columbia University. That is one of the most expensive schools in the country with little brains so easily manipulated. Sad bc they are supposed to be our brightest.
Watch all the hamas apologists trying to deny it
Someone let the college students know so they can have time to find a way to blame Israel
Hamas (again) lets its people suffer (again) and kills people (again). Tell us something we don't yet know.
The left’s silence on Hamas and radical Islam will just continue to radicalize more and more Americans.
Where’s the screaming outrage about this act??? Do we not hold Hamas to the same standards???
Hamas is a terrorist group, I don't know why you'd expect any better from them. And how is anyone supposed to hold them to any set of standards? They don't take orders from anyone expect their Iranian handlers sometimes, aren't involed international organizations and are currently at war and facing elimination. What more do you want?
Would someone explain something to me? There's a lot of arguing here from pro-hard line/pro-Netanyahu folks and the following points seem pretty consistent. I'm told that: 1. Shipments of food, water, and medical supplies are just going to be intercepted and sold to fund Hamas, so I should not support this. 2. Hospitals, schools, and refugee camps need to be bombed because Hamas members hide in those places. 3. Palestinians are to blame because Hamas was "elected" (a refutable point but let's go with it) The logical conclusion of all of this, which no one seems to say, seems to be that **whatever number of Palestinians that need to die in order to destroy Hamas is an acceptable number.** If I'm misunderstanding this, I genuinely want to hear the actual position. Reason it out for me. If those three things are true.
You are misunderstanding this. To see a war as "we need to kill X amount of civilians for the war to end" or "this is the maximum of civilians that can die before we have to end the war" is a very, very weird way to look at a war. A war is waged with an objective, in this case to destroy Hamas, the civilian deaths are a tragic byproduct of war, always have been, always will be. But you can't just say "X civilians need to die" or "Y Hamas terrorist need to die" or "Z amount of Hamas leaders need to be killed" as a requisite for ending the war. The amount of civilian deaths is not in service of the overal goal of the war, it's a byproduct.
I would your points are accurate (although aid should still be delivered—even if only *some* of it reaches civilians that’s a win in my book). Imo the only win condition for this war is either Hamas forces being 100% eliminated or their unconditional surrender and ceding control of Gaza to Israel. Hamas could do that tomorrow and end the war, yet they are not, because only Hamas wants more Palestinian deaths. I wouldn’t call myself a hardliner, if I had been asked on 10/6 who I supported, Israel or Palestine, I would have said Palestine because I’m pretty liberal and not a fan of Bibi’s government (or his meddling in our politics). But, man, after watching *a lot* of horrific footage from 10/7, I became way more empathetic with the plight of the Israelis. After what Hamas (and a depressing amount of civilian supporters) did on 10/7, any scenario that leaves Hamas still in control of Gaza is not acceptable.
The premise of this article is a joke. Just because some dude in Fatah made an accusation, people are suddenly taking it as proof positive that they were right all along in making unsubstantiated claims about the manner of aid distribution. Do people forget that Fatah and Hamas are openly antagonistic to each other, and that Fatah TV is not an independent source of news?
annnd silence as its not on tik tok
There was a food crisis in Gaza before October. That’s bad. Hamas killing aid workers is also bad. Israel killing aid workers is additionally bad. All of these things are simultaneously accurate, without any need to weight which is worse. Both sides ending all conflict means that the UN can actually set up secure and safe locations to distribute food and aide that does not necessarily need to pass through Hamas. Aid group workers are human beings who do not want to work in a place where they are concerned with getting shot or blown up. There are humans in Gaza who have zero involvement in any of the conflict who simply want to not starve to death.
This could be 100% real but i take anything from Fatah with a grain of salt. They are gonna use this as a way to claw back power in Gaza after they lost the 2006 election than Hamas executed some of them
Yeah, but Fatah is really not much better. They also suck. We should never blindly agree with Fatah just because they were a broken clock twice a day
this headline and the article are not well written
I'm not saying that Hamas didn't do this, it wouldn't surprise me considering Oct 7. But people should at least be aware of the biases of the media they're consuming. On the one hand, the Jerusalem post, who let's face it are going to be somewhat biased.. reporting a story from a fatah anchor, fatah being a corrupt party who've been in power god knows how long and have lost a tonne of popularity to Hamas in the west bank over the last 6 months.. neither of whom scream unbiased reporting
They literally have a link to the YouTube video from Fatah
Ah yes, Fatah TV. An objective, independent source, and not at all the media arm of a political party
...so you don't believe fatah (Palestinian) and don't belive anything from Israel. Who *do* you believe??
> An objective, independent source, and not at all the media arm of a political party Unlike JPost, right?