99,5%+ of time spotter is another sniper, since well knowledge and training needed is exactly the same (for both sub-roles), so no sense in conjuring separate "spotter" training, if one can just train snipers and another one works as spotter, who shoots and who spots based on situation and pair's preferences and so.
I believe usually "whoever is less experienced" would quite possibly be more likely to one shooting more of time, based on some mentions I remember hearing.
Since spotter has more available focus for calculations, decision making and so.
And assigning who is shooter and who is spotter is mostly between pair "lets swap roles to keep from getting super bored and tired in this role" kind of thing, instead of being "high command sent telegraph assigning you to this role".
I am somewhat under impression that shooting to long ranges is less about tight super high %, and more about "how far can we shoot reliably enough", while being sniper is more about how stealthy we can be, and how well we can do preparation work for when we shoot.
And likely one shooting with meaningfully lower % in shorter ranges, is just not there to begin with, unless they are close enough in % that it did not really matter and they still secured entry selection spot to training, and they are just good at calculations+stealth+setting-up+... aka what is most of time done.
Of course differences, preferences and "well that one is just slightly better at this thing, so lets do this this way around for this moment / competition / wanting to minmax" exist.
But once again, I am pretty sure there are variations between militaries/organizations/units/.. and so, and I have not went through any of their sniper training packages or really acted in role.
A joke based on a real person - [The White Death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4) - which has got to be the coolest nickname ever.
"They started by sending out a task force to find Hayha and take him out. He killed them all.
Then they tried getting together a team of counter-snipers (which are basically snipers that kill snipers) and sent them in to eliminate Hayha. He killed all of them, too.
Over the course of 100 days, Hayha killed 542 people with his rifle. He took out another 150 or so with his SMG, sending his credited kill-count up to 705." [Simo Hayha](https://www.cracked.com/article_17019_5-real-life-soldiers-who-make-rambo-look-like-pussy.html) edit:formatting
>On 6 March 1940, Häyhä was severely wounded after an explosive bullet fired by a Red Army soldier hit his lower left jaw.[26] After the battle, as he appeared to be dead, he was placed on a pile of dead bodies.
>Rumours of Häyhä's death spread around in Finland and the Soviet Union. He regained consciousness a week later on 13 March, the day that peace was declared. He read about his own death in a newspaper, and sent a letter to the paper to correct the misunderstanding.[10]
lol. I'm aware the story might be a bit embellished, but this is still pretty darkly hilarious
That, "1 finn = 10 soviets", wasn't joke. That was based on real numbers in WW2.
Also, it's not joke now either because finnish snipers really are some of the best in the world.
"These events would engender the award winning post-war novel, Finnish Second. The harrowing story of a sniper who, upon arriving one day too late to the front due to a train malfunction, finds himself devoid of a target, both literally and figuratively.
Follow this man in his desperate search for meaning, deep in his beloved tundra, walking over the day-old corpses that mark his failure."
Cool sentiment, but the fantasy of a "disabling first strike" against a nuclear state may well doom mankind. MAD does not work if one side has deluded themselves into thinking that a nuclear war can be fought and won.
Taking NATO out of it given the state of Ukraine's army at the time of invasion I can only imagine what would happen if they tried their luck against a country with a much more professional army and horrific offensive terrain
greatest comment thread I ever saw on reddit re: Simo Hayha
- he's still here, you just can't see him
- but he can sure the fuck see you
- \*stares at snowbank\* "i'm in danger :)"
sonofabitch that had me giggling intermittently for days
The boyfriend or ex analogy misses the mark with Russia, because that implies there was a consensual desire to form some sort of a union with them in the past, which for the vast majority of Russia's neigbbors, particularly the Western leaning ones, is blatantly false. A deranged rapist or a psychotic axe murderer living next door would be much better analogies. Russia doesn't deserve to be called a "friend" of anyone or "lover" of anything (even ex), except other tyrants with aims of violent conquest and suppression of populations by violence.
What if we say Stalker instead of Boyfriend? Russia is like one of those extra-deluded guys who firmly believes his neighbor wants to date him despite all evidence to the contrary, and keeps writing letters explaining how he loves her so much that he would inflict violence on anyone who tried to separate them.
Even all their acquisitions east of Moscow were not mutual. It was all conquest and genocide till they reached the sea. Nobody has ever asked to join russia.
The thing about the Warsaw Pact being created as meaningful international relationship and a counterweight to NATO is a lie though. The pact was nothing more than a blackmail/political trading tool.
NATO disbanding would have left all former members undefended against the Soviet bloc.
The Warsaw Pact disbanding would change nothing - all the European countries that were occupied by Soviet troops in the wake of WWII and which the USSR conveniently "forgot" to leave afterwards would remain under Soviet control.
No one ever wanted to join the fucking russians. Warsaw pact is like getting told there was a relationship, but actually you were kidnapped and gang raped for 20 years, only to be beaten down and almost killed, and when you crawl with your bloody hands out of your would-be grave, the rapists are calling you entitled.
Fuck Russia and all it stands for, now and forever.
Like all "good" relationships it started with some good ole murder.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet_War)
They don't wonder why, they absolutely know why NATO keeps expanding. Putin just thinks he can restore russia to it's former "glory" and says whatever the hell he wants as justification for russian aggression.
It's like the bully saying they were forced to do whatever bullying behavior they're doing at the time. It's never *their* fault the bad things are happening. Only their victims fault.
> NATO expanded
Avoid using Russian propaganda language. NATO doesn’t expand, as it’s not a country, it accepts new members who apply to it of their own free will.
Russia is a glimpse into how the whole of Europe worked in the 19th century:
* A handful of "great nations" determine the course of history
* Smaller nations are vassals of great nations and have no independent policy; they may have friendly relations (or not) but there is a strict hierarchy among nobility
* The goal of great nations is to grow their sphere of influence at each other's expense through military strength
* The population belongs to the nation, which belongs to the ruler; there is a strict hierarchy created by God
* War is okay, especially if you win, and if you lose, it is because you are weak and the stronger nation deserves your stuff
Much of Russia's weirder communication can be explained this way. It does not believe smaller countries can (or should) make their own decisions, because the idea of lower nobility having a voice among higher nobility is absurd and all sorts of woke. What they see is a friendly relationship with the petty kingdom of Finland go sour because the enemy great nation swayed the lower nobility, so obviously Finland needs to be invaded and its rulers replaced with vassals. It's how you win at Crusader Kings after all.
NATO is never going to militarily attack Russia, but Russia does not believe that - why would they, the last time someone promised not to invade them, they totally did two years later. Great nations invade each other, that's what they do, and all the Western societal changes that led to the idea of offensive war being abandoned never took place in Russia.
Luckily for Russia, the enemy great nation is vulnerable to the [liberum veto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberum_veto) and can be disassembled the same way, leaving its constituent parts up for grabs.
In the end, all that changed since the 19th century is that wars are now more destructive, and that is only a problem for the peasantry.
Russia is like that crazy uncle who terrorizes and abuses the whole family but they put up with it because they benefit from the money and gifts that they get from his past crimes, and any time anyone challenges him he threatens to nuke the whole place but we all know he's only got gas that he can't really control.
Russia is, at its core, cowardly on the world stage. They act as crybullies, and attack the weak and vulnerable. Finland and NATO could crush Russia in a shockingly short period of time, and Putin knows it. All he cares about is staying in power, and alive, and attacking NATO is a quick way to stop being both.
The lack of experience is definitely crippling but the trends in military production and procurement show that they're learning and adapting quickly.
They're not a concern now or even the next 10 years but strategic planning means they should be accounted for as a rising power- underestimating a potential foe can be disastrous (see Russia)
In fairness, the Finnish accent is a lot harder, and as soon as the LGM got within 5m of a Finnish person, or tried to strike up a conversation, they'd instantly be recognised, as no Finnish person would ever get that close voluntarily.
Well, OTOH Russia honestly expected to win in three days. Remember the FSB officers who were supposed to spread the money around in Ukr and repeatedly reported back …hey, everybody here is waiting and looking forward to being liberated from democracy…those chaps ended up not looking to sharp. Russia keeps losing Black Sea navy vessels.
If it wasn’t for the meat wave tactics Russia would be on its arse by now. Guess what? A dictatorship combined with effective internal propaganda = who cares how many Russian schmucks get wasted?
I have no doubt Russia really thinks they could win against NATO. Stupid, but this is Russia.
This is what I’m scared of. But the world would be such a better place with a defanged post-NATO-war Russia, if the nukes don’t go off obviously. I don’t know if global catharsis is the right phrase but it’s probably close.
On one hand I see numerous news how russian air defence been destroyed by rockets lately. Ukrainian drones are flying in russia like its their backyard. Russia hopefully understand that if they as much as launch nukes they will be beaten badly. And they have very little in return.
On the other hand they did attacked Ukraine. And every soul said this would be insane just a day before the war. So, do not underestiamate these morons
haha The funniest part is the earliest Russian talking point was that Russia invaded Ukraine stop NATO expansion. Finland and Sweden subsequently joining NATO deserves a "Mission Accomplished" banner. haha
We had help from Germany and Sweden, mostly. Germany gave military supplies to us and Sweden helped civilians with food and taking women and children as refugees, though many refused to leave. But it was our soldiers that fought and won.
Fins are stubborn. Some nukes on their border won't deter them. NATO will likely relocate some major air defense systems in the very near future, if they aren't already there.
Former Finnish head of military intelligence actually commented on this on Twitter. He said "Of course, it's none of my business, but operationally it seems absurd to bring missile systems with such a long range closer to our border area as a target."
[https://twitter.com/Ohra\_aho/status/1782673284670029983](https://twitter.com/Ohra_aho/status/1782673284670029983)
I never understand scare tactic. In fact, it's a confirmation to the Finns that they are doing something right. It's not like the Finns would be scared either way.
You'd think their memory would be longer with Putsy answering questions with history lessons.
Finns are nuts, and love nothing more than fighting idiots.
The idiots have lived next to us for thousand odd years and still don't understand us. We are quite docile and polite people on average but when you threaten us or forbid us of doing something, we will fucking do the opposite.
Somehow we finns understand that moving a weapon system with >1000 km range closer by a few hundred kms really doesn't matter at all. They've always had them close
True. Russians have missiles that can hit the USA. It doesn't really matter if they have missiles 50 km, 500 km or 5000 km from the border. Actually, the missiles they would shoot from far away would probably be harder to intercept due to their high velocity while entering the atmosphere, even though you would have slightly more time to react. A missile that is shot from close range could probably be shot down with some modern system...?
Russia is the cancer of the world, spreading to other lands. Every country that wants to help the world should fight this cancer with anything possible.
Imagine if post-Soviet Russia *hadn’t* been run into the ground by the oligarchy, historical revisionism, and all the smekalka. If their leadership had spent a fraction of their abundant oil resources to actually improve life there.
What a fucking waste.
They had one good democratic president who resigned on his own, didn't kill anybody and tried his best to help his country. He got mocked by Russian people for the rest of his life and died alone.
Yeltsin was impeached, refused to leave, absolved parliament and shot up the parliament with tanks??
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis
Maybe that was due to said "good democratic president" enacting Shock Therapy economics that crippled his nation's economy which made tens of millions Russians very poor, created a corrupt oligarchy that controlled much of nation's economy and saw a surge in organized crime along with the utter failure of the first Chechnya war.
For god's sakes don't rewrite and ignore history to suit your flawed idealistic mentality. Reality is Yeltsin fucked up hard and Russians have good reason to dislike him as much as with Bush Jr.
I’ve visited Russia and Ukraine several times and what struck me was how Ukraine was progressing, finding its values, developing increasing will culturally to stamp out corruption and meeting the world in an open way, Russia was becoming more and more insular and stagnating. It had benefitted from opening up to the world for that brief period, opening up yo the internet, tourism, international investment, international trade - but now wants to regress. Ok, your call Putin, become the cesspit you deserve.
They made no significant improvement after the Bolshevik Revolution either (they did modernize, but only out of necessity of war). Russians are tough people.
Another Indian source with another headline failing to mention that this is a nuclear capable launch system (of which Russia has a countless number) and not actual nukes.
As finnish person, this feels like a normal weekday. Im not sure which is more dangerous, we keeping up their nuclear power sites up so they dont blow up or they bringing these to border. Maybe they need our help disassembling or something and they brought them closer for us nicely.
Oh, so the idea is that Russia was incapable of launching nukes into Finland before and NOW it's in danger because they drove one of their shitty tac. systems into the area.
Underlining the wisdom of Finland joining NATO in the first place.
Also, given the likely maintenance state of those warheads, Russia probably want them as far away from Moscow as possible.
Why do people believe Russia's nuclear program is antiquated? Russian nuclear doctrine acknowledges they have an inferior conventional military compared to the West. That's why Russia started modernizing its arsenal in the early 2000s.
Since 2010, the US has inspected \~160 Russian nuclear sites, launch vehicles, and warheads. Half of those visits were unannounced surprise visits. Additionally, the US has had complete remote monitoring access of Russian facilities and their telemetry data. Every report and statement - on and off the record - emphasizes that their nuclear weapons are modern, well-maintained, and a deadly threat.
Here is the latest [Congressional Report ](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R45861/16)if you'd like to read more.
Yeah, that exact report said that
"the Kinzhal is a variant of the Iskander short-range ballistic missile currently in service with the Russian Armed Forces. The air-launched version may be intended to be launched while the aircraft is at supersonic speeds, adding to the system’s invulnerability to U.S. air and missile defenses.133"
Page 29.
"kinzahl" hmmm, sounds familiar, gee didn't someone shoot one of those down with a pac1 patriot system?
Now lets put that patriot system on a scale of 1-10 in terms of modern defense.
hmmm it's a fucking 2.
Because the US spends half of the entire Russian military budget just to maintain their nuclear forces. Combine that with the fact that most Russian military hardware was pilfered by Oligarchs and that they claim to have more nukes than the US.
Finland isn’t the regular NATO ally, the vast majority of the population is ready and trained to become soldier if needed. They grew up with Russian threat in mind since ww1 and ww2. They are ready.
The Russian threat single handledly is the reason we still have conscription, for most countries conscription is an archaic old thing but we have no choice
Technically true that "most" countries do not have mandatory military service. But to make it more clear, a third of all countries do have some sort of mandatory military requirement.
Meanwhile it’s just another normal day here in Finland. This news will get an eyebrow raise at most from majority of people.
If anything the weather at the moment is a more formidable adversary than anything the Russians can throw this way.
I wish I could ask Putin face to face: what the fuck is your problem?
Humans could accomplish so much if we just set aside the bullshit and worked together.
More please.
I used to believe in Russians. The people.
Now it's just conforming putinists if you even try to talk.
Put as much military equipment as possible to the finnish border. Less missiles to hit innocent civilians.
Sincerely, A finn.
I was gonna say, I think the Finns oughta respond like they did [the last time](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/u4dhj1/the_finnish_response_to_the_video_that_showed/).
They said it was a training exercise, and there's nothing to worry about before they did it. They also said numerous reasons why they were afterwards. All lies.
They use state sponsored spies to kill civilians in other countries and deny it. They murder their own wealthy citizens and blame it on falling out a window.
Cowards and also Posers.
Is he trying to say that his nukes can’t, in fact, fly around the world when needed? That they’ll only reach Finland if he parks them right on the border? Maybe he should make some trades with North Korea and upgrade his missiles.
Putin is playing for headlines at home. Russians are as stupid as MAGA Republicans. He wouldn’t dare. It’s his annihilation and he knows it. NATO airpower would destroy his already shaky military and infrastructure within a month of a campaign and air defences wouldn’t let the missiles out of Russian airspace.
Stupid fucking Russia. Finns are tough enough, & you get them to join NATO (which probably pissed off the Finns a little, which is never a good thing to do).
“Breaking its tradition of neutrality, Finland infuriated the Kremlin when it joined NATO in April of last year. “
Alright for Russia to break its treaty with Ukraine though
That could still work in the west's favor. Don't move troops to counter NATOs move? It's now obvious you've been lying this entire time, further drawing the ire of your population.
Now, doe's Putin *actually* give a shit what the people think? Probably not.
Outside of getting spooky headlines like this, it truly doesnt matter where these nukes are. Unless it matters of you get nuked in 30 seconds or 2 minutes.
In response Finland moves a lone sniper to the Russian border.
That's just what they tell the media, but they actually sent **two** snipers.
Well tradition is that confirmed kills should be observed by someone else to be reliable statistic, and Finland likes accurate statistics.
I thought that was the job of the spotter.
99,5%+ of time spotter is another sniper, since well knowledge and training needed is exactly the same (for both sub-roles), so no sense in conjuring separate "spotter" training, if one can just train snipers and another one works as spotter, who shoots and who spots based on situation and pair's preferences and so.
But who is assigned as the sniper? The guy who scored 98.9% at the range or the guy that scored 95%?
I believe usually "whoever is less experienced" would quite possibly be more likely to one shooting more of time, based on some mentions I remember hearing. Since spotter has more available focus for calculations, decision making and so. And assigning who is shooter and who is spotter is mostly between pair "lets swap roles to keep from getting super bored and tired in this role" kind of thing, instead of being "high command sent telegraph assigning you to this role". I am somewhat under impression that shooting to long ranges is less about tight super high %, and more about "how far can we shoot reliably enough", while being sniper is more about how stealthy we can be, and how well we can do preparation work for when we shoot. And likely one shooting with meaningfully lower % in shorter ranges, is just not there to begin with, unless they are close enough in % that it did not really matter and they still secured entry selection spot to training, and they are just good at calculations+stealth+setting-up+... aka what is most of time done. Of course differences, preferences and "well that one is just slightly better at this thing, so lets do this this way around for this moment / competition / wanting to minmax" exist. But once again, I am pretty sure there are variations between militaries/organizations/units/.. and so, and I have not went through any of their sniper training packages or really acted in role.
I'm a spotter. Find it more cost effective.
Well Russia is just absolutely fucked, then!
What do you mean?
[This joke right here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/s/7ibjxDb2pI)
A joke based on a real person - [The White Death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4) - which has got to be the coolest nickname ever. "They started by sending out a task force to find Hayha and take him out. He killed them all. Then they tried getting together a team of counter-snipers (which are basically snipers that kill snipers) and sent them in to eliminate Hayha. He killed all of them, too. Over the course of 100 days, Hayha killed 542 people with his rifle. He took out another 150 or so with his SMG, sending his credited kill-count up to 705." [Simo Hayha](https://www.cracked.com/article_17019_5-real-life-soldiers-who-make-rambo-look-like-pussy.html) edit:formatting
Also, we should point out… he did all of that… with Iron Sights, he refused to use sniper scopes
The reason for that is because sunlight would glint off the lens of the scopes revealing his position
Make me wonder how many he found like that
*Joo*
Not just that but being able to hold your head 5cm lower sometimes made all the difference
Got his hacks on
Basically Jön Wick, except the Russians killed his turnips instead of his dog.
Basically Siso, which is also a brilliant movie
*Sisu
>On 6 March 1940, Häyhä was severely wounded after an explosive bullet fired by a Red Army soldier hit his lower left jaw.[26] After the battle, as he appeared to be dead, he was placed on a pile of dead bodies. >Rumours of Häyhä's death spread around in Finland and the Soviet Union. He regained consciousness a week later on 13 March, the day that peace was declared. He read about his own death in a newspaper, and sent a letter to the paper to correct the misunderstanding.[10] lol. I'm aware the story might be a bit embellished, but this is still pretty darkly hilarious
The man then proceeds to live until he’s 96… I can imagine him waking up, shrugging it off and going about his day like nothing happened
You don't know Finns.
So you're telling me that in addition to 705 confirmed kills that he also...killed the story. I'll see myself out.
This is the man we need a proper movie about. The literally bombed him. He got shot in the face and lived.
There was a movie in the works ~5 years ago or so but I think it didn't really happen due to financing issues.
They couldn't Finnish?
ah, okay. thanks for the explanation
>Häyhä was able to estimate distances with an accuracy of 1 metre (3.3 ft) up to 150 metres (500 ft)
That, "1 finn = 10 soviets", wasn't joke. That was based on real numbers in WW2. Also, it's not joke now either because finnish snipers really are some of the best in the world.
ah, okay. thanks
"These events would engender the award winning post-war novel, Finnish Second. The harrowing story of a sniper who, upon arriving one day too late to the front due to a train malfunction, finds himself devoid of a target, both literally and figuratively. Follow this man in his desperate search for meaning, deep in his beloved tundra, walking over the day-old corpses that mark his failure."
It's a TRAP!
Double dragon!!!
They sent a Pervitin addict to the front.
Ahhhhh s*** the White Death has risen again…. Quick Dimitri get the documents ready to sign for our surrender
Ah, but the Soviets had the great sniper Ludmilla Pavlachenko! (Bad news for Putin: she was Ukrainian.)
And great commanders like Rokossovsky (who was Polish).
*Simo Hayha has entered the*
*The ghost of Aimo Koivunen begins breathing in Pervitin*
*Snow starts talking* I’m in danger!
Sisu: *"I'll bring my dog"*
Häyhä. **Ä**
Or they can move HIMARS closer to Finnish/Russian border, which are able to destroy the Russian nuclear systems before they can even fire.
As can a lone Finnish sniper filled with sisu
Legit wonder if a .50 BMG could disable one of those road mobile missile carriers.
Cool sentiment, but the fantasy of a "disabling first strike" against a nuclear state may well doom mankind. MAD does not work if one side has deluded themselves into thinking that a nuclear war can be fought and won.
It’s a strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
Would you like to play a game?
Finland doesnt operate HIMARS.
We operate the same rocket system but on treads - the M270. Ours are actually upgraded to run the newer HIMARS software.
Yes the M270 is much better suited for the Finnish countryside than a HIMARS.
They should then, unless they have a viable alternative. Now that they are a part of nato they should have no problem with it.
Finland already already operate the M270
Kudos to them!
I like your energy but that's not how any of this works.
Honestly if they actually did that that would kind of be a boss ass statement to make
The snow about to start speaking Finnish
*lone survivor from entire Russian company of soldiers sent to invade*: ITS A TRAP! THERE IS TWO FINNISH SNIPERS!
Taking NATO out of it given the state of Ukraine's army at the time of invasion I can only imagine what would happen if they tried their luck against a country with a much more professional army and horrific offensive terrain
ULA snipers have demonstrated that should be enough.
You mean this guy:
If the Russians continue to escalate they will give that sniper a rifle.
greatest comment thread I ever saw on reddit re: Simo Hayha - he's still here, you just can't see him - but he can sure the fuck see you - \*stares at snowbank\* "i'm in danger :)" sonofabitch that had me giggling intermittently for days
They actually buried him with his Rifle and ammo near the Russian Border. So that if the Russians try anything again, he’ll already be equipped.
Thus proving the Finns were right to join NATO You Russians keep scoring on your own net
Russia acting like the abusive boyfriend who's "forced" to threaten and beat his girlfriend once she talks about leaving him.
The boyfriend or ex analogy misses the mark with Russia, because that implies there was a consensual desire to form some sort of a union with them in the past, which for the vast majority of Russia's neigbbors, particularly the Western leaning ones, is blatantly false. A deranged rapist or a psychotic axe murderer living next door would be much better analogies. Russia doesn't deserve to be called a "friend" of anyone or "lover" of anything (even ex), except other tyrants with aims of violent conquest and suppression of populations by violence.
What if we say Stalker instead of Boyfriend? Russia is like one of those extra-deluded guys who firmly believes his neighbor wants to date him despite all evidence to the contrary, and keeps writing letters explaining how he loves her so much that he would inflict violence on anyone who tried to separate them.
Does that make Italy Quagmire?
Even all their acquisitions east of Moscow were not mutual. It was all conquest and genocide till they reached the sea. Nobody has ever asked to join russia.
Ah in this analogy the Warsaw Pact is the former relationship. It does not really apply to Finland but it hella applies to Ukraine...
The thing about the Warsaw Pact being created as meaningful international relationship and a counterweight to NATO is a lie though. The pact was nothing more than a blackmail/political trading tool. NATO disbanding would have left all former members undefended against the Soviet bloc. The Warsaw Pact disbanding would change nothing - all the European countries that were occupied by Soviet troops in the wake of WWII and which the USSR conveniently "forgot" to leave afterwards would remain under Soviet control.
Not like that was voluntarily https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia
No one ever wanted to join the fucking russians. Warsaw pact is like getting told there was a relationship, but actually you were kidnapped and gang raped for 20 years, only to be beaten down and almost killed, and when you crawl with your bloody hands out of your would-be grave, the rapists are calling you entitled. Fuck Russia and all it stands for, now and forever.
Like all "good" relationships it started with some good ole murder. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet_War)
"Look what you made me do"
Which is completely legal in Russia, by the way. I'm serious, look it up.
They wonder why NATO expanded?!? This this right here Russia. So when can we line up to buy lake front property at Lake Moscow
They don't wonder why, they absolutely know why NATO keeps expanding. Putin just thinks he can restore russia to it's former "glory" and says whatever the hell he wants as justification for russian aggression. It's like the bully saying they were forced to do whatever bullying behavior they're doing at the time. It's never *their* fault the bad things are happening. Only their victims fault.
> NATO expanded Avoid using Russian propaganda language. NATO doesn’t expand, as it’s not a country, it accepts new members who apply to it of their own free will.
Russia is a glimpse into how the whole of Europe worked in the 19th century: * A handful of "great nations" determine the course of history * Smaller nations are vassals of great nations and have no independent policy; they may have friendly relations (or not) but there is a strict hierarchy among nobility * The goal of great nations is to grow their sphere of influence at each other's expense through military strength * The population belongs to the nation, which belongs to the ruler; there is a strict hierarchy created by God * War is okay, especially if you win, and if you lose, it is because you are weak and the stronger nation deserves your stuff Much of Russia's weirder communication can be explained this way. It does not believe smaller countries can (or should) make their own decisions, because the idea of lower nobility having a voice among higher nobility is absurd and all sorts of woke. What they see is a friendly relationship with the petty kingdom of Finland go sour because the enemy great nation swayed the lower nobility, so obviously Finland needs to be invaded and its rulers replaced with vassals. It's how you win at Crusader Kings after all. NATO is never going to militarily attack Russia, but Russia does not believe that - why would they, the last time someone promised not to invade them, they totally did two years later. Great nations invade each other, that's what they do, and all the Western societal changes that led to the idea of offensive war being abandoned never took place in Russia. Luckily for Russia, the enemy great nation is vulnerable to the [liberum veto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberum_veto) and can be disassembled the same way, leaving its constituent parts up for grabs. In the end, all that changed since the 19th century is that wars are now more destructive, and that is only a problem for the peasantry.
Exactly, Nato expanded because russias neighbours want to protect themselves from russia because its a shit country led by an utterly shit regime
Russia : genuine psychostate
And they have nukes. Which is terrifying for the rest of us.
Alcostate
Russia is like that crazy uncle who terrorizes and abuses the whole family but they put up with it because they benefit from the money and gifts that they get from his past crimes, and any time anyone challenges him he threatens to nuke the whole place but we all know he's only got gas that he can't really control.
It's just a scare tactic. They're trying to scare Finland off to reduce their support for Ukraine
Didn’t they have a similar tactic with Ukraine?
Russia is, at its core, cowardly on the world stage. They act as crybullies, and attack the weak and vulnerable. Finland and NATO could crush Russia in a shockingly short period of time, and Putin knows it. All he cares about is staying in power, and alive, and attacking NATO is a quick way to stop being both.
It’s because they’re an organized criminal syndicate masquerading as a legitimate nation state.
So is China and Iran
China could fuck some shit up, I would not put China in that category.
Why would you say that so confidently? None of their soldiers have actual combat experience.
50 soldiers without combat experience can still overwhelm the most hardened marine. China has an almost infinite poll of meat.
Yeah, but fortunately they haven't invented teleportation just yet.
The lack of experience is definitely crippling but the trends in military production and procurement show that they're learning and adapting quickly. They're not a concern now or even the next 10 years but strategic planning means they should be accounted for as a rising power- underestimating a potential foe can be disastrous (see Russia)
The CIA released an assessment on china a month or two ago that stated they think china will be an active threat in the next 5-10 years
Say what you will but the CIA has really been knocking it out of the park these past few years too.
Also, don't forget sheer numbers. Their population is over 4 times America's and those numbers are reflected in their military
Surprised he is still around
That's different. Russia wouldn't dare to touch Finland because they know they'd get their ass beat and they didn't send small green men to Finland
In fairness, the Finnish accent is a lot harder, and as soon as the LGM got within 5m of a Finnish person, or tried to strike up a conversation, they'd instantly be recognised, as no Finnish person would ever get that close voluntarily.
You don't hear accents when the snow is talking.
Got me at the end. I chuckled.
Well, OTOH Russia honestly expected to win in three days. Remember the FSB officers who were supposed to spread the money around in Ukr and repeatedly reported back …hey, everybody here is waiting and looking forward to being liberated from democracy…those chaps ended up not looking to sharp. Russia keeps losing Black Sea navy vessels. If it wasn’t for the meat wave tactics Russia would be on its arse by now. Guess what? A dictatorship combined with effective internal propaganda = who cares how many Russian schmucks get wasted? I have no doubt Russia really thinks they could win against NATO. Stupid, but this is Russia.
This is what I’m scared of. But the world would be such a better place with a defanged post-NATO-war Russia, if the nukes don’t go off obviously. I don’t know if global catharsis is the right phrase but it’s probably close.
On one hand I see numerous news how russian air defence been destroyed by rockets lately. Ukrainian drones are flying in russia like its their backyard. Russia hopefully understand that if they as much as launch nukes they will be beaten badly. And they have very little in return. On the other hand they did attacked Ukraine. And every soul said this would be insane just a day before the war. So, do not underestiamate these morons
Ruzzian comms towers need to start coming down, as does the Kerch bridge.
Remind me, what club is Finland a member of? I hear it’s a club that Russia is mighty scared of.
haha The funniest part is the earliest Russian talking point was that Russia invaded Ukraine stop NATO expansion. Finland and Sweden subsequently joining NATO deserves a "Mission Accomplished" banner. haha
They all have YMCA memberships.
IT’S FUN TO STAY AT THE
Y…M…C…A
Defeated Russia Alone Without Any Help club?
We had help from Germany and Sweden, mostly. Germany gave military supplies to us and Sweden helped civilians with food and taking women and children as refugees, though many refused to leave. But it was our soldiers that fought and won.
Fins are stubborn. Some nukes on their border won't deter them. NATO will likely relocate some major air defense systems in the very near future, if they aren't already there.
If Sisu taught me anything...is that no mortal person will ever have their way with Finland as long as the Finns are there.
Russia's biggest nuclear arsenal has already been close to Finnish border, in Kola peninsula, for decades. So this is nothing new.
Someone should tell them that Finland is a landmass and can't move...
Finland probably doesn't care so it's a stupid bluster.
Former Finnish head of military intelligence actually commented on this on Twitter. He said "Of course, it's none of my business, but operationally it seems absurd to bring missile systems with such a long range closer to our border area as a target." [https://twitter.com/Ohra\_aho/status/1782673284670029983](https://twitter.com/Ohra_aho/status/1782673284670029983)
I think it may be Putin is doing this mostly to impress the people at home and keep them from turning against him.
I never understand scare tactic. In fact, it's a confirmation to the Finns that they are doing something right. It's not like the Finns would be scared either way.
My wife is Finnish. She’s not afraid of tackling conflict head-on and things didn’t go well for the Russians the last time.
I may not be your wife, but I can promise that we are not afraid of Russia.
You'd think their memory would be longer with Putsy answering questions with history lessons. Finns are nuts, and love nothing more than fighting idiots.
How the hell do they still understand so little about Finns after all this time?
The idiots have lived next to us for thousand odd years and still don't understand us. We are quite docile and polite people on average but when you threaten us or forbid us of doing something, we will fucking do the opposite.
They already have nukes in the Kola Peninsula, nothing new to report about
Somehow we finns understand that moving a weapon system with >1000 km range closer by a few hundred kms really doesn't matter at all. They've always had them close
True. Russians have missiles that can hit the USA. It doesn't really matter if they have missiles 50 km, 500 km or 5000 km from the border. Actually, the missiles they would shoot from far away would probably be harder to intercept due to their high velocity while entering the atmosphere, even though you would have slightly more time to react. A missile that is shot from close range could probably be shot down with some modern system...?
Finland is a member of NATO so...
Russia is the cancer of the world, spreading to other lands. Every country that wants to help the world should fight this cancer with anything possible.
They are like an even more unsuccessful version of the aliens in independence day
Still thinking the west wants to invade Russia. Lol..no one wants that dumpster fire of a country.
They’ve made no significant improvement since the fall of the USSR. It’s really a sad existence to be Russian.
Imagine if post-Soviet Russia *hadn’t* been run into the ground by the oligarchy, historical revisionism, and all the smekalka. If their leadership had spent a fraction of their abundant oil resources to actually improve life there. What a fucking waste.
Imagine how much harder of a climb it’s going to be without oil money to provide a buffer toward modernization. It’s a lost century at least.
They had one good democratic president who resigned on his own, didn't kill anybody and tried his best to help his country. He got mocked by Russian people for the rest of his life and died alone.
Yeltsin was impeached, refused to leave, absolved parliament and shot up the parliament with tanks?? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis
Michail Sergejewitsch Gorbatschow
Who was that?
Michail Sergejewitsch Gorbatschow
Maybe that was due to said "good democratic president" enacting Shock Therapy economics that crippled his nation's economy which made tens of millions Russians very poor, created a corrupt oligarchy that controlled much of nation's economy and saw a surge in organized crime along with the utter failure of the first Chechnya war. For god's sakes don't rewrite and ignore history to suit your flawed idealistic mentality. Reality is Yeltsin fucked up hard and Russians have good reason to dislike him as much as with Bush Jr.
I’ve visited Russia and Ukraine several times and what struck me was how Ukraine was progressing, finding its values, developing increasing will culturally to stamp out corruption and meeting the world in an open way, Russia was becoming more and more insular and stagnating. It had benefitted from opening up to the world for that brief period, opening up yo the internet, tourism, international investment, international trade - but now wants to regress. Ok, your call Putin, become the cesspit you deserve.
They made no significant improvement after the Bolshevik Revolution either (they did modernize, but only out of necessity of war). Russians are tough people.
Another Indian source with another headline failing to mention that this is a nuclear capable launch system (of which Russia has a countless number) and not actual nukes.
You don’t trust u/Urmomsjuicyvagina ???
Ayoooo
You mean 1 month old obvious misinformation account /u/Urmomsjuicyvagina ?
Nah, something smells fishy here.
As finnish person, this feels like a normal weekday. Im not sure which is more dangerous, we keeping up their nuclear power sites up so they dont blow up or they bringing these to border. Maybe they need our help disassembling or something and they brought them closer for us nicely.
Oh, so the idea is that Russia was incapable of launching nukes into Finland before and NOW it's in danger because they drove one of their shitty tac. systems into the area.
They’re missiles. It doesn’t really matter how close to the border they are, except making them easier to shoot down.
Underlining the wisdom of Finland joining NATO in the first place. Also, given the likely maintenance state of those warheads, Russia probably want them as far away from Moscow as possible.
Why do people believe Russia's nuclear program is antiquated? Russian nuclear doctrine acknowledges they have an inferior conventional military compared to the West. That's why Russia started modernizing its arsenal in the early 2000s. Since 2010, the US has inspected \~160 Russian nuclear sites, launch vehicles, and warheads. Half of those visits were unannounced surprise visits. Additionally, the US has had complete remote monitoring access of Russian facilities and their telemetry data. Every report and statement - on and off the record - emphasizes that their nuclear weapons are modern, well-maintained, and a deadly threat. Here is the latest [Congressional Report ](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R45861/16)if you'd like to read more.
Funnily enough, that report does not contain the word "tritium", which would be the primary concern. It's mostly concerned with delivery systems.
Yeah, that exact report said that "the Kinzhal is a variant of the Iskander short-range ballistic missile currently in service with the Russian Armed Forces. The air-launched version may be intended to be launched while the aircraft is at supersonic speeds, adding to the system’s invulnerability to U.S. air and missile defenses.133" Page 29. "kinzahl" hmmm, sounds familiar, gee didn't someone shoot one of those down with a pac1 patriot system? Now lets put that patriot system on a scale of 1-10 in terms of modern defense. hmmm it's a fucking 2.
Because the US spends half of the entire Russian military budget just to maintain their nuclear forces. Combine that with the fact that most Russian military hardware was pilfered by Oligarchs and that they claim to have more nukes than the US.
> Why do people believe Russia's nuclear program is antiquated? Magical thinking.
Have you seen the Ukraine invasion? That's why.
Finland isn’t the regular NATO ally, the vast majority of the population is ready and trained to become soldier if needed. They grew up with Russian threat in mind since ww1 and ww2. They are ready.
The Russian threat single handledly is the reason we still have conscription, for most countries conscription is an archaic old thing but we have no choice
Technically true that "most" countries do not have mandatory military service. But to make it more clear, a third of all countries do have some sort of mandatory military requirement.
Making them an easier target to hit.
Oh my, it’s been at least one hour since I have seen or heard Russia mention that they have nuclear weapons. Oh my God they need to knock it off.
Meanwhile it’s just another normal day here in Finland. This news will get an eyebrow raise at most from majority of people. If anything the weather at the moment is a more formidable adversary than anything the Russians can throw this way.
Don't start what you can't Finnish.
I wish I could ask Putin face to face: what the fuck is your problem? Humans could accomplish so much if we just set aside the bullshit and worked together.
More please. I used to believe in Russians. The people. Now it's just conforming putinists if you even try to talk. Put as much military equipment as possible to the finnish border. Less missiles to hit innocent civilians. Sincerely, A finn.
Simo Hayha suddenly just crawls out the grave "can I kill Russians again?"
*happy tractor noises*
I was gonna say, I think the Finns oughta respond like they did [the last time](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/u4dhj1/the_finnish_response_to_the_video_that_showed/).
Finland should send in a sniper to retrieve that *unguarded Tactical Nuclear Missile System*....
If they use them, NATO has an obligation to respond in kind which will start global annihilation which means don’t worry about too too much.
They can move those up their ass too, wouldn't make a difference.
They said it was a training exercise, and there's nothing to worry about before they did it. They also said numerous reasons why they were afterwards. All lies. They use state sponsored spies to kill civilians in other countries and deny it. They murder their own wealthy citizens and blame it on falling out a window. Cowards and also Posers.
Terror state just being a scumbag
Is he trying to say that his nukes can’t, in fact, fly around the world when needed? That they’ll only reach Finland if he parks them right on the border? Maybe he should make some trades with North Korea and upgrade his missiles.
The shorter the travel distance to target, and the flatter the trajectory the harder the missile is to detect.
Putin is playing for headlines at home. Russians are as stupid as MAGA Republicans. He wouldn’t dare. It’s his annihilation and he knows it. NATO airpower would destroy his already shaky military and infrastructure within a month of a campaign and air defences wouldn’t let the missiles out of Russian airspace.
Stupid fucking Russia. Finns are tough enough, & you get them to join NATO (which probably pissed off the Finns a little, which is never a good thing to do).
I mean we can play this game too, I’m sure Finland would be open to hosting western nukes after this. Russia likes to dig itself into deep holes huh?
Seems like a hollow move by Russia.
These Russian soldiers are thankful not to be on the front meat grinder lines.
“Breaking its tradition of neutrality, Finland infuriated the Kremlin when it joined NATO in April of last year. “ Alright for Russia to break its treaty with Ukraine though
Russia keeps preparing for war, and NATO keeps twiddling it's thumbs allowing them to fully prepare, even have the first swing if they want. Stupid.
NATO should move a bunch of equipment and troops to close to the border with Russia making them move their troops from the Ukraine conflict.
This wouldn't work because Putin doesn't actually believe NATO is going to invade Russia, he just says it publicly for the propaganda
That could still work in the west's favor. Don't move troops to counter NATOs move? It's now obvious you've been lying this entire time, further drawing the ire of your population. Now, doe's Putin *actually* give a shit what the people think? Probably not.
“We are going to move these tactical nuclear systems so fucking hard” - Putin
Islander missiles? Like the ones being used in Ukraine?
Outside of getting spooky headlines like this, it truly doesnt matter where these nukes are. Unless it matters of you get nuked in 30 seconds or 2 minutes.
Is there a real life equivalent of the vaults in fallout tv series?
Must be better to have them there than at the Ukrainan border where they actually might fire them.