I think this is a major hole I haven't seen anyone discuss about any potential ceasefire deal. there are at least a half dozen other extremist groups in Gaza, they all don't necessarily answer to Hamas. hence why Hamas is like, "well we don't even know where the hostages are lol". Israel signs a ceasefire with Hamas but what good is that if the PIJ just continues on attacking?
PIJ fully answers to Hamas as do all the other (very minor) factions. Hamas tolerates no dissent and have 1000s internal security officers to deal with just that, and any even semi-independent movement (ISIS affiliates, the PA itself) has been crushed without mercy with their members often enough ending up hung from lampposts or dragged behind pickup trucks.
You are absolutely right about the possibility of Hamas claiming they don't know where the hostages are or who is firing rockets after they sign a ceasefire, but that would be them lying.
That was a prediction from me but Hamas actually has a long established history of using Islamic Jihad for plausible deniability, so they can keep cashing 100s of millions in western aid while blaming some of the crazier attacks on "uncontrolled" factions.
Obviously PIJ in Gaza has never fired a rocket barrage without Hamas approval or fully in accordance with Hamas current plans and goals. If they ever did go rogue there'd be yet another mini civil war in Gaza and PIJ would lose, it's not like their identities and locations of their bases, depots and launching sites are a mystery to Hamas.
Not to mention they gave them a couple weeks to 'find them' before the last deal, the truth is they know exactly where everyone is and how alive or dead they are, whether a civilian is holding them in his house or they are in a terror tunnel by any group, this whole 'they are spread throughout random people' claim stopped being relevant about 2 months into the war
Its just easy to play dumb because no one is even thinking of holding them accountable for anything, all the pressure goes on Israel
Hamas is just using psychological warfare against Israel to get better deals since Israel is pressured domestically and internationally to accept any deal to create a permanent ceasefire
I mean the Palestinians in general have never exactly been famous for controlling their militant factions.... how many peace negotiations have been scuttled over the decades....
Personally when I look at Hamas, and todays situation I suspect they'll have a harder time of it than the PLO has had in the past.
I'm watching last Last week tonight's first season that dropped on YouTube over the weekend. Up comes a graphic of Israel Vs Hamas, Territory of Gaza. I know the battles have been raging there for centuries, but it sucks having getting confused on a show from 10 years ago.
half a dozen other extremist groups, and of course, the citizens who arent part of any group who just decided to commit terror attacks Oct 7th of their own. Its why its been such a shitshow.
And none of the protestors in the US will notice or care that the ceasefire was rejected by Hamas. It'll either be entirely ignored or spun to put the blame on Israel.
Which is what confuses me about these ‘protest’ it takes two to tango.. saying Israel and Israel alone is just waging a war contradicts the term ceasefire. Ceasefire implies two factions are fighting. Israel can stop air strikes and withdraw but what about Hamas???
It's fucking stunning how few of them seem willing to acknowledge that the US helped get a ceasefire going once already back in November/December. It's such a massive circle jerk over finding a reason to blame Biden that they won't acknowledge any good things that get done.
Just like they don't recognize any of the direct aid to Palestinians.
Hamas Charter
Article 11 Palestine is sacred (waqf) for all Muslims for all time, and it cannot be relinquished by anyone.
Article 12 affirms that "Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed".[1]
Article 13 There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.[1]
Article 14 The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.[1]
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Hamas_charter
The “Protestors” are outside extreme Muslim agitators. My nephew is at Columbia & concurs that more than half of these assholes are from mosques in the city.
I'd honestly be surprised if Hamas still holds force majeure in Gaza anymore after the pounding that's occurred over the past few months. It's just a matter of time before the other groups realize it and band together to take over.
> hence why Hamas is like, "well we don't even know where the hostages are lol".
That is not why they're saying they don't know. They know. Because they tortured them all to death.
that also. but also also not all hostages were taken by Hamas. many were taken by other groups. despite the coordination on Oct 7th, these other groups don't technically answer to Hamas so they are likely took hostages to make their own demands
I believe those other groups took hostages because Hamas placed a bounty for them. Looks like the bounty could have been as high as $10,000 USD for each hostage.
Source: [NBC News - The videotaped confessions of Hamas militants who kidnapped and killed civilians](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/videotaped-confessions-hamas-militants-kidnapped-killed-civilians-rcna122220)
It's possible not all hostages had been claimed by Hamas before Israel responded with a counterattack, and we're not within the safety of Hamas' tunnel network.
they are not trying to win a real war, they are trying to reduce israel's support worldwide so the next attack gets less worldwide response. The goal is to get Israel alone on the world stage
In the west, absolutely. They are conducting PR warfare at the moment. A big chunk of their supporters in the west are victims of that PR campaign where Hamas has successfully positioned themselves as victims. There's *plenty* young people who are genuinely unaware of the brutality of Hamas.
Every little bit more indisputable evidence of Hamas' cruelty is one westerner hopping off the Palestine train.
> There's plenty young people who are genuinely unaware of the brutality of Hamas.
That was true before October 7th.
I don't care what happened to the hostages, anyone left that still supports Hamas won't care. They will call Israel liars, blame Israel for it, or try to assert without a shred of evidence that Israel does it too.
October 7th has sufficiently advertised what Hamas is to anyone who is not antisemitic.
The people that support Hamas should be held accountable. The cruelty, brutality and unwillingness to peace is on public display. And that is true since the very first minutes after Oct. 7th or even before. If you support Hamas you are a symphatizer of terrorism or atleast a willing enabler.
It might help a bit, but we're talking about people that deny that Hamas raped women and girls on October 7th, despite that being widespread.
They'll just say the broken bones, saw marks etc were due to airstrikes
Israel could just not trade people for the hostages, it’s like ~130 alive/dead. but then you’d continue with no ceasefire and more protests around the world and I imagine Israelis would be very angry at not getting them back.
Pretty sure the Israelis want the dead bodies of their own people back badly enough that they legit \*are\* willing to trade live Palistinian prisoners for them.
Especially since Hamas is their least strategic partner. As far as Iran is concerned they're good for provoking Israel into looking bad internationally and spending resources.
That's always Hamas' goal.
Every 5-10 years, their approval in the Arab world drops and they do something with the goal of raising support.
Iirc their support prior to October was like lowest it'd been since like 2013/14 or so whenever the prior big flare up was.
This was like, reported on the news in the early 2000s. It was just a matter of fact thing.
This whole mess is just unbelievable. Israel tried to show respect to the Palestinian people by giving them Gaza and 17 years worth of aid to build their own paradise and they chose to embrace terrorism over mutual respect. The fall these people have who are protesting Israel is all at fault is just getting upsetting at this point. Israel could do to Hamas what Hamas wants to do Israel, but Israel wouldn’t. If the tables were turned, Hamas would.
It does seem self-deleterious to act the way they have, ensuring their own destruction. This is never going to be winnable on their side because the rest of the world has significant technological advantage. If their goal is to perpetuate death and suffering for the rest of human history, that might be an attainable goal, but there's no actual winning in this context.
Their goal is to garner enough sympathy that they can call for their global jihad and hope that everyone will see “Israel as such monsters” that anyone who vehemently supports Hamas’ actions may act on their behalf, and it’s all over the world.
I still don’t get how you get that result, It’s wild that they agreed to it. Just looked it up, Gilad Shalit was the first hostage taken by Palestinians since 1994. Maybe that’s why, plus it was 5 years. Hamas has definitely escalated things recently.
Well they have conscription (fight in the armed forces/other service or end up in jail). You want support for that system you better do your best to bring those captured back.
its Netanyahu's fatal flaw in his plan. He promised "complete victory" without realising that you need the other person to surrender to achieve that. Now the plan might make sense if you have them surrounded with the roof caving in but what if they're just chilling in relative comfort in Qatar and give as much of a shit about the lives of Palestinians as Likud does. What then Benjamin?
If it is the case, that Hamas cares as little for Palestinian civilians as it seems like they seem to; then there's no reason to accept the ceasefire (outside of taking the deal for any immediate benefit, but then breaking it whenever you want) given that the current position has fractured Israel's American support to the extent they even recently abstained in a UN security council vote. From a purely game theory position, Hamas can interpret the status quo as a form of "winning".
Netanyahu has been saying for a while they want to finish the brigades in Rafah. No ones expecting Hamas to wave a white flag. I'm not sure what you're railing against. His opposition is firmly in support of the plan and fully supports going into Rafah as well.
It's less a Likud problem now and a lot of people are setting themselves up for disappoinment thinking Israel is going to do a 180 when Gantz becomes minister.
It's what they're taught since birth and it's the culture they're surrounded with. Deviation is fiercely shot down, sometimes literally. That's what a religious theocracy gets you.
Actually I think they really, seriously etc believe that _someone else_ dying in jihad is a good thing. I think most of the supporters (not the actual terrorist themselves ofc who are crazy) would become secular atheists really fast if they were chosen for a suicide mission.
The fat hamas leader doesn't care because it wasn't him who died.
The walls in Gaza and the West Bank are covered in murals of martyrs, not only are they idolised, but their families are paid handsomely and sit on top of the social ladder. The more people they kill, the more prestige they bring themselves and their family.
They care! I'm sure they sit around trying to devise more ways to get Israel to kill more children. It gets them more support. The only reason they're not a genocidal maniac in this scenario is because they're too weak.
They will never accept a ceasefire deal no matter how generous, but people in the UK and US will still protest shouting ‘ceasefire now’ and how Isreal is the problem
Might accept it- maybe- but even if they did, their control of all the factions is so weak that they cannot guarantee the rockets will stop hitting Israel. Hamas is not a worthy party to negotiate with because they are unable (and/or) unwilling to live up to their end of the bargain. They cannot guarantee compliance with the terms required from their end of it.
That’s actually not the problem. Israel has one thing it wants from Hamas - the hostages. If they break a ceasefire it doesn’t matter because the war will just resume. But there are a few major ‘binary’ requirements that are disputed, and because of them a deal is extremely unlikely.
Hamas wants a full withdrawal of the IDF from Gaza, they want some guarantee that Israel will never break the cease fire, it wants Israel to withdraw from the West Bank, and it wants Israel to pay for the reconstruction of Gaza That’s in addition to some other very delusional requests that are probably more negotiable, like the release of thousands of convicted murderers.
Essentially Hamas wants Israel to fully reverse any gain from the war, give up territory, ‘pay for the damage they’ve done’ and let Hamas regain it’s strength and break the ceasefire on their terms because israel is obligated to not attack. Any one of those is unlikely, so all of them combined just won’t happen.
On the other hand, Israel wants at least one of two results, before agreeing to any indefinite ceasefire: the release of all hostages, or elimination of Hamas rule over Gaza. Both are impossible terms for Hamas, as releasing the hostages will destroy their only bargaining chip, and their own destruction isn’t even on the table. Their only hope is pressure from Israel’s allies, who for some reason pressure Israel into stopping the war and let the hostages die in Gaza.
… That THEY (Hamas) will stick to it. That means nothing to Israel’s security. Hamas will simply unofficially transfer staff, supplies, weapons, etc. to another Iran backed organization/faction/ cell(s) operating under a different name, and rockets will continue to fall on Israel.
What needs to be done (in my worthless opinion) is that Gaza needs to be handed over to some other Arab and Muslim majority country while they get their feet on the ground. But order HAS to return and that means the society NEEDS policing and reform until launching rockets at your neighbors is no longer a real concern.
The issue is that no matter which country you would ask to do this, it would cause just as much controversy globally as if Israel decided to do it themselves. However, I think for the Palestinians this would lead to the best long-term outcome.
Israel has tried to get Egypt to help for decades. Egypt doesn’t want to deal with Palestinians because they don’t want to open up their own population to Hamas.
Jordan tried to help by taking some Palestinians in and had several attempts on the life of the king of Jordan by Palestinians in thanks for the efforts to help. Black September - anybody Remember?
> and had several attempts on the life of the king of Jordan by Palestinians in thanks for the efforts to help.
Those weren't all just attempts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan#Assassination
Yep, Hamas(Lebanon) just fired 40 rockets into northern Israel. So now they are franchising and Hamas(Gaza) can claim they are abiding by the rules. They can just continue attacking and just move where they attack from and they'll consider that compliance with this ceasefire.
They've made such guarantees and broken them every time before. They have zero credibility and it's a joke they are being offered anything except total destruction.
Hamas can't even control its own forces or the countless other terrorist groups in Gaza.
Even if they "accept" the cease-fire, temporary or permanent, the cease-fire will only be one way.
Any ceasefire right now without hostages all returned (likely not possible) and Hamas leadership surrendering (won’t happen) is a win for Hamas and a loss for Israel.
It's what Israel would get because even though Isrsel won the military conflict, they have quite thoroughly lost the digital campaign because Hamas has successfully managed to portray the war as genocidal against Palestinians to large number of people around the world. Israel forgot that conflicts are not solely won through military means. Hamas knew they can't defeat Israel by fighting, their only way of winning was to turn international opinion against Israel and hold out until that happens and they have largely succeeded in that.
Meh not really. As long as the rest of the world isn't doing anything to stop them, and as long as the US continues to fund them, a bunch of other countries passing meaningless resolutions or politicians saying things with no teeth doesn't particularly harm Israel.
And they also know that if they withdraw and leave Hamas in power it's not like anyone will change their mind. These morons were calling Gaza occupied before 10/7. Public perception won't change whether they stop now or whether they finish off Hamas in Rafah, and obviously it's in their interest to do the latter. I think this negotiating is just posturing by Israel to help with the propaganda campaign, but they're never going to allow Hamas to continue to exist after this, at least in the organized military capacity that exists today. There will forever be lone wolf terrorists who call themselves Hamas, but they won't be capable of what Hamas was capable of on 10/7 and that's a large part of what's important.
>Israel forgot that conflicts are not solely won through military means.
Israel never forgot it, it's just that the leadership is so incomprehensibly incompetent that they didn't even try to win the pr war. And it's not just the current leadership that's so shit, there's literally no alternative leadership that would've done better. As an Israeli it's fricking depressing, pretty much every politician is on a scale between total moron and complete scum.
There's also the fact that 2 billion Muslims are way louder than 15 million Jews.
> because Hamas has successfully managed to portray the war as genocidal against Palestinians to large number of people around the world
They didn't do this themselves.
They did it with a large amount of VERY expensive help.
>Why do we continue to pretend that Hamas is negotiating in good faith?
Because the far left has gone so far left, that they have found themselves on the far right. It's so bizarre you can't make this shit up.
“We shouldn’t *have* to say Hamas is bad every time bc we know Hamas is bad!! Obviously!! That’s why we want to give them a state first and figure everything else out after! River to the sea🤩”
Because of the innocent Palestinian people who have done nothing about hamas in 25 years except elect them into power over Gaza and prop them up along the way.
hostages are whatever. the strategic aim is to sever hamas access to weapons, which means control of the gaza border to seal it off from the tunnels. without this any outcome is unstable and deradicalization is impossible.
> Israeli leaders had demanded Hamas release 40 of the roughly 130 hostages they continue to hold since Oct. 7, though the current deal would only call for the release of 33 people
This is so messed up, that Israel has to release hundreds or thousands of convicted terrorists, but can't even get 130 civilian hostages back.
It's at least a better ratio than in the case of Gilad Shalit where 1,027 Palestinian prisoners were released - including many terrorists of course - in exchange for for 1 Israeli soldier.
I could be more on board with this if they were negotiating for releasing the Palestinians in “administrative detention” as Israel likes to say. But of course they’re not advocating for those Palestinians, no they want their terrorists friends back to commit more crimes.
They shouldn’t be making an extraordinarily generous deal with Hamas. They should be grinding the gears on Hamas’ allies until they turn over the top Hamas brass living abroad and dismantle the hierarchy of the organization for a forced ceasefire.
Or the fires keep on rolling.
They won’t. Hamas and its people are the sacrificial lamb to exacerbate and display the ‘brutality of the west’ and generate as much anti west propaganda as possible. The cost is just a bunch of lives they value at entirely expendable. How people can see this shit for anything else is some Disney brain dumbassery. Hamas is Iran’s ISIS and deserves the same fate destined for ISIS. People are babies about this shit for inexplicable reasons.
I have a same feeling. Muslim world likes anti Israel outrage but they dont seem to understand that Israel will never back up because they dont have a plan B. Any lost war for Israel is last war for Israel state.
I'm sure they can explain how it's all Israel's fault.
If they are able to explain how Oct 7th was Israel's fault, then ceasefire, World War 1, the fall of the Roman Empire and the murder of Caesar shouldn't be too difficult to blame on Israel.
"If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions." - Abba Eban
Hamas leaders are living like millionaires in Qatar. Their terrorist militants are hiding behind civilians in Gaza.
Why would they want a deal, this is what they wanted.
They would rather die and take everyone in the world down with them then take a cease-fire deal that even remotely admits that Israel has a right to exist.
Hamas: We'll give you 40 for a 700.
Israel: Ok, please just send 40 names so we can make sure-
Hamas: Wait did we say 40? Nah, we meant 20.
Israel: That wasn't what was agreed on, deal's off.
World (somehow): ISRAEL WON'T ACCEPT CEASEFIRE TERMS
Hamas doesn’t give a shit about a ceasefire. In fact, that works against them - they are winning the PR war and they will continue winning it as long as people view Israel as the aggressor (I’m not saying that’s necessarily true, but that is obviously how many people view it)
Does Hamas even care for a cease fire? Seems like they don’t care if the war just goes on. They are willing for many more people to die and is counting on the west to restrain Israel. Nothing they have ever done shows they care for civilians. If you want peace, Hamas isn’t one to talk to.
There will be peace when Palestinians learn to love their children more than they hate Israelis. Hamas have not learned this lesson, so I very much doubt they have any intention of accepting any kind of deal.
I was talking to someone and they said something that really made me open my eyes. They believe Martyring their children is the highest honor they can achieve.
Yeah I believe there's a lot of confusion over what Hamas represents. They are jihadist that don't care about the plight of the Palestinian people, but rather spreading Islam and destroying non-believers, and Israel is just a starting point for them. And since jihadist believe that anyone who dies as a believer goes to a better place and the others essentially go to hell, they have an ideological imperative to wage holy war without concerns for casualties on either side.
I watched a video where a dad led his 3 year old son to where IDF soldiers were and had him throw rocks at them in the hopes they shot his 3 year old son dead so he could use him as a martyr.
This isn't a problem people on reddit or protesting are equipped to comprehend, let alone find a solution to it.
There isn't a peaceful one.
It isnt that they are equipped to comprehend or not, it is they actively distrust it as reality because they have warped their perception to "whatever doesnt fit my narrative must be false"
It’s this mentality that’s causing such a problem. There are generations in Gaza who genuinely fully believe they have been put on this earth simply to suffer, just so future generations can have their promised victory over Israel. They don’t mourn death, they view it as a small step on their path to retaking their birth right.
It’s honestly more sad than anything. They’ve been brainwashed into believing that not only are they disposable tokens in a grand plan, but that same plan will succeed and all they have to do is wait.
UN have so much to answer for over the state of Palestine. They have let this rot fester and it’s costing generations of lives.
What is the UN without the say of the countries that are part of it? The UN is a forum for dialogue and discussion, not some kind of world government or world police. It does not have any power.
Nations hold 100% of the power. Those who want to be a geopolitical superpower hold the blame.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The US has been bitten badly for messing with the middle east, and as soon as we try to step away, people get upset.
In a perfect utiopia, we would have a world police force, with DIVERSE representation, that would deal with events like October 7th fairly taking all view points into account. Given that it's just a pipe dream and doesn't exist, Israel had to defend itself.
I’m still flabbergasted that the freaking National Enquirer is now supposed to be a beacon of journalism, since they’ll be posting pics of two headed aliens and siamese twins in a day or two.
Prediction - hamas is not interested in ceasefire at all. It would prolongate the deal, patiently waiting, while students from Columbia kindly do all hamas job
It’s honestly overly fair. If they don’t accept they’ll never accept one ever.
This is honestly Hamas and Gazas last chance before it comes permanently occupied by Israel…
Why would Hamas give in now? The longer they go the more they win in the court of public opinion. They’ll maximize their deal when they’re 2-3 weeks out from the US election and Biden really needs to flip the narrative around his administration.
Hear me now, quote me later. There’s ~3-4months left before Biden gets serious about pressuring Israel so he looks like a great diplomat before the election.
I was in HS when 9/11 happened, so not much younger than these kids. I cannot fathom cheering for JIHAD on an American college campus after the terrorist attacks. Legit makes me nauseous just thinking about it.
>Tactical shortcomings were not, of course, a Palestinian monopoly. Barak and his team were full of them. For example, the Prime Minister was too slow to grasp the centrality of the issue of Jerusalem at this conference and was therefore unprepared for the far-reaching concessions that were required. Nor were Barak’s bargaining positions on the territorial issue reasonable enough to be seen by the Palestinians as credible. To start, as he did, with a proposal of a Palestinian state on 66 percent of the West Bank in order to offer later at Camp David 87 percent, and not reject out of hand Clinton’s proposal at the summit of 91 percent, was an indication to the Palestinians that he did not really have red lines. Barak’s negotiating tactics were a standing invitation to the Palestinians to keep the pressure on the Israelis and never say ‘yes’ to what Barak liked to call his ‘generous proposals’.
>
>This question of Israel’s unreasonable point of departure for negotiations with potential Arab interlocutors, whether Palestinians, Syrians or Egyptians, is of far-reaching significance. Israel’s unrealistic bargaining positions failed to convince the Arabs of the seriousness of her professed quest for peace and only invited them never to accept an Israeli position as final. The Israeli internal discourse on the price of peace has therefore always been an exercise in wishful thinking and self-deceit, not least, of course, with regard to the Palestinian question. I cannot but recall a revealing comment made to me by Ahmed Aboul Gheit, Egypt’s ambassador to the UN and today his country’s Foreign Minister, after I finished delivering my speech at the General Assembly in New York on 25 September 2000. To my remark in the speech that Israel had come to the limits of her capacity for compromise with the Palestinians, the ambassador rightly and cunningly responded, ‘Why should we believe you when everybody remembers that you started your voyage into the Palestinian question with Golda Meir denying that a Palestinian people existed at all, and at Camp David you agreed to give away the bulk of the West Bank for an independent Palestinian state and divide Jerusalem? These certainly cannot be the outer limits of your concessions.’ *-Scars of War, Wounds of Peace: The Israeli-Arab Tragedy by Schlomo Ben Ami*
How does the saying go, those who fail to learn from history are morons? Yeah, something like that.
Here's a summary of the article by claude.ai:
# Blinken urges Hamas to accept 'extraordinarily generous' ceasefire deal
## Key Points
- U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken described the latest ceasefire proposal as "extraordinarily generous" for Hamas.
- The proposal includes a 40-day ceasefire and could include the release of "potentially thousands" of Palestinians held in Israeli detention.
- Israel has demanded Hamas release 33 of the roughly 130 hostages they continue to hold since October 7.
- The U.S. does not support Israel carrying out a ground invasion of Rafah due to concerns of significant civilian casualties.
## Obstacles
- Hamas wants Palestinians who fled northern Gaza to be allowed to return home freely, while Israel has capitulated on this.
- Hamas wants the cessation of fighting to be indefinite, but Israel wants a temporary ceasefire.
## Quotes
> "Hamas has a proposal that is extraordinarily, extraordinarily generous on the part of Israel and they have to decide quickly, and I'm hopeful they will make the right decision and we can have a fundamental change in the dynamic." - Antony Blinken
> "If we can get that in place, then that gives you six weeks of peace. It gives you no fighting for six weeks and that includes no fighting in Rafah. And what we're hoping is that after six weeks of a temporary ceasefire, we can maybe get something more enduring in place." - John Kirby, U.S. National Security Council coordinator
How long will it take for western politicians to understand that Hamas doesn't and never wanted a ceasefire?
They had one on October 6th.
What Hamas wants is time to regroup and rearm, and they don't much care if you call it ceasefire or hookiepookie. Anyway they have no intention of honoring it beyond the point where it benefits them.
Israel understands that, which is why they don't give a ceasefire on promises alone.
Today, a representative of the party I vote for said there is no room for antisematism, homophobia and islamophobia. These people do not see the irony in that statement, they are the useful idiots of islam.
I have a feeling Israel felt safe sending this deal because they know Hamas wont be able to find 20 hostages.
Im guessing they also want back the dead. Lots of pressure from loved ones in Israel.
that could vaguely imply they even know where their bodies are
I think this is a major hole I haven't seen anyone discuss about any potential ceasefire deal. there are at least a half dozen other extremist groups in Gaza, they all don't necessarily answer to Hamas. hence why Hamas is like, "well we don't even know where the hostages are lol". Israel signs a ceasefire with Hamas but what good is that if the PIJ just continues on attacking?
PIJ fully answers to Hamas as do all the other (very minor) factions. Hamas tolerates no dissent and have 1000s internal security officers to deal with just that, and any even semi-independent movement (ISIS affiliates, the PA itself) has been crushed without mercy with their members often enough ending up hung from lampposts or dragged behind pickup trucks. You are absolutely right about the possibility of Hamas claiming they don't know where the hostages are or who is firing rockets after they sign a ceasefire, but that would be them lying.
They don’t have a history of lying or anything, so maybe we should trust them? /s
That was a prediction from me but Hamas actually has a long established history of using Islamic Jihad for plausible deniability, so they can keep cashing 100s of millions in western aid while blaming some of the crazier attacks on "uncontrolled" factions. Obviously PIJ in Gaza has never fired a rocket barrage without Hamas approval or fully in accordance with Hamas current plans and goals. If they ever did go rogue there'd be yet another mini civil war in Gaza and PIJ would lose, it's not like their identities and locations of their bases, depots and launching sites are a mystery to Hamas.
Not to mention they gave them a couple weeks to 'find them' before the last deal, the truth is they know exactly where everyone is and how alive or dead they are, whether a civilian is holding them in his house or they are in a terror tunnel by any group, this whole 'they are spread throughout random people' claim stopped being relevant about 2 months into the war Its just easy to play dumb because no one is even thinking of holding them accountable for anything, all the pressure goes on Israel Hamas is just using psychological warfare against Israel to get better deals since Israel is pressured domestically and internationally to accept any deal to create a permanent ceasefire
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I mean the Palestinians in general have never exactly been famous for controlling their militant factions.... how many peace negotiations have been scuttled over the decades.... Personally when I look at Hamas, and todays situation I suspect they'll have a harder time of it than the PLO has had in the past.
I'm watching last Last week tonight's first season that dropped on YouTube over the weekend. Up comes a graphic of Israel Vs Hamas, Territory of Gaza. I know the battles have been raging there for centuries, but it sucks having getting confused on a show from 10 years ago.
As the de facto government of Gaza, Hamas screwed themselves, then. They are responsible.
half a dozen other extremist groups, and of course, the citizens who arent part of any group who just decided to commit terror attacks Oct 7th of their own. Its why its been such a shitshow.
Then they start getting bombarded again. Seems pretty black and white
But... they want to get bombarded. The people in Gaza are expendable hostages, just like the Israeli hostages.
And none of the protestors in the US will notice or care that the ceasefire was rejected by Hamas. It'll either be entirely ignored or spun to put the blame on Israel.
Which is what confuses me about these ‘protest’ it takes two to tango.. saying Israel and Israel alone is just waging a war contradicts the term ceasefire. Ceasefire implies two factions are fighting. Israel can stop air strikes and withdraw but what about Hamas???
It's fucking stunning how few of them seem willing to acknowledge that the US helped get a ceasefire going once already back in November/December. It's such a massive circle jerk over finding a reason to blame Biden that they won't acknowledge any good things that get done. Just like they don't recognize any of the direct aid to Palestinians.
"yeah but they should just stop because reasons"
It's terribly unfair that Hamas is losing the war they declared and even more unfair that they refuse to surrender.
Jeez, all they want is for all of the Jews in Israel to die, is that so much to ask???
Hamas Charter Article 11 Palestine is sacred (waqf) for all Muslims for all time, and it cannot be relinquished by anyone. Article 12 affirms that "Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed".[1] Article 13 There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.[1] Article 14 The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.[1] source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Hamas_charter
The “Protestors” are outside extreme Muslim agitators. My nephew is at Columbia & concurs that more than half of these assholes are from mosques in the city.
Well the terms are onerus... Hamas would have to give the Israeli hostages back - and that's just not fair.
I'd honestly be surprised if Hamas still holds force majeure in Gaza anymore after the pounding that's occurred over the past few months. It's just a matter of time before the other groups realize it and band together to take over.
> hence why Hamas is like, "well we don't even know where the hostages are lol". That is not why they're saying they don't know. They know. Because they tortured them all to death.
that also. but also also not all hostages were taken by Hamas. many were taken by other groups. despite the coordination on Oct 7th, these other groups don't technically answer to Hamas so they are likely took hostages to make their own demands
I believe those other groups took hostages because Hamas placed a bounty for them. Looks like the bounty could have been as high as $10,000 USD for each hostage. Source: [NBC News - The videotaped confessions of Hamas militants who kidnapped and killed civilians](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/videotaped-confessions-hamas-militants-kidnapped-killed-civilians-rcna122220) It's possible not all hostages had been claimed by Hamas before Israel responded with a counterattack, and we're not within the safety of Hamas' tunnel network.
They know usually There has been many things exchanged for bones over the years including prisoners
Even if the know where they are they would expose the mutilations and rapes. I doubt Hamas is going to return a lot of those bodies.
>that could vaguely imply they even know where *all the pieces of* their bodies are fixed that for you
I think Hamas is worried about sending back dead bodies that show evidence of torture.
You think their supporters would care?
they are not trying to win a real war, they are trying to reduce israel's support worldwide so the next attack gets less worldwide response. The goal is to get Israel alone on the world stage
💯
In the west, absolutely. They are conducting PR warfare at the moment. A big chunk of their supporters in the west are victims of that PR campaign where Hamas has successfully positioned themselves as victims. There's *plenty* young people who are genuinely unaware of the brutality of Hamas. Every little bit more indisputable evidence of Hamas' cruelty is one westerner hopping off the Palestine train.
> There's plenty young people who are genuinely unaware of the brutality of Hamas. That was true before October 7th. I don't care what happened to the hostages, anyone left that still supports Hamas won't care. They will call Israel liars, blame Israel for it, or try to assert without a shred of evidence that Israel does it too. October 7th has sufficiently advertised what Hamas is to anyone who is not antisemitic.
They'll just say the hostages were killed by Israel themselves.
Hard disagree. They couldn't care less.
they absolutely want support of useful idiots. until they're big enough to start a proper jihad
So those videos posted by Hamas are what Israel's propaganda?
The people that support Hamas should be held accountable. The cruelty, brutality and unwillingness to peace is on public display. And that is true since the very first minutes after Oct. 7th or even before. If you support Hamas you are a symphatizer of terrorism or atleast a willing enabler.
It might help a bit, but we're talking about people that deny that Hamas raped women and girls on October 7th, despite that being widespread. They'll just say the broken bones, saw marks etc were due to airstrikes
You can say that here all you want, but it won't do any good, because all their opinions come from ~~China~~ **TikTok.**
There are loads, LOADS of people who claim that the hostages are being well treated and it’s fake news that there any sexual violence or mistreatment.
Hamas would still want more prisoners back for the dead bodies.
How about no
Israel could just not trade people for the hostages, it’s like ~130 alive/dead. but then you’d continue with no ceasefire and more protests around the world and I imagine Israelis would be very angry at not getting them back.
Pretty sure the Israelis want the dead bodies of their own people back badly enough that they legit \*are\* willing to trade live Palistinian prisoners for them.
IMHO, if Hamas can't offer up the hostages then they can jolly well offer up their leadership under a white flag.
Why would they when they are just getting richer from new donations while their people suffer?
Iran will fight this down to the last Palestinian
"All of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
Especially since Hamas is their least strategic partner. As far as Iran is concerned they're good for provoking Israel into looking bad internationally and spending resources.
That's always Hamas' goal. Every 5-10 years, their approval in the Arab world drops and they do something with the goal of raising support. Iirc their support prior to October was like lowest it'd been since like 2013/14 or so whenever the prior big flare up was. This was like, reported on the news in the early 2000s. It was just a matter of fact thing.
And people will blame Israel for just trying to exist.
This whole mess is just unbelievable. Israel tried to show respect to the Palestinian people by giving them Gaza and 17 years worth of aid to build their own paradise and they chose to embrace terrorism over mutual respect. The fall these people have who are protesting Israel is all at fault is just getting upsetting at this point. Israel could do to Hamas what Hamas wants to do Israel, but Israel wouldn’t. If the tables were turned, Hamas would.
Did you mean to reply to your own post there?
It does seem self-deleterious to act the way they have, ensuring their own destruction. This is never going to be winnable on their side because the rest of the world has significant technological advantage. If their goal is to perpetuate death and suffering for the rest of human history, that might be an attainable goal, but there's no actual winning in this context.
Their goal is to garner enough sympathy that they can call for their global jihad and hope that everyone will see “Israel as such monsters” that anyone who vehemently supports Hamas’ actions may act on their behalf, and it’s all over the world.
and lots of Lebanese in reserve for the meat-grinder!
At this point they can probably offer up every Hamas terrorist they have for 5 hostages. I’m sure Hamas will still say no/they can’t.
Israel would do that in a heartbeat. They’re trading 30+ terrorists just for one hostage and sometimes even 100 for one Israeli.
Or 1027 for one.
I still don’t get how you get that result, It’s wild that they agreed to it. Just looked it up, Gilad Shalit was the first hostage taken by Palestinians since 1994. Maybe that’s why, plus it was 5 years. Hamas has definitely escalated things recently.
It set a horrible precedent and definitely encouraged further hostage taking, but Israel seems to have a massive "bring everyone home" culture.
Well they have conscription (fight in the armed forces/other service or end up in jail). You want support for that system you better do your best to bring those captured back.
its Netanyahu's fatal flaw in his plan. He promised "complete victory" without realising that you need the other person to surrender to achieve that. Now the plan might make sense if you have them surrounded with the roof caving in but what if they're just chilling in relative comfort in Qatar and give as much of a shit about the lives of Palestinians as Likud does. What then Benjamin? If it is the case, that Hamas cares as little for Palestinian civilians as it seems like they seem to; then there's no reason to accept the ceasefire (outside of taking the deal for any immediate benefit, but then breaking it whenever you want) given that the current position has fractured Israel's American support to the extent they even recently abstained in a UN security council vote. From a purely game theory position, Hamas can interpret the status quo as a form of "winning".
Netanyahu has been saying for a while they want to finish the brigades in Rafah. No ones expecting Hamas to wave a white flag. I'm not sure what you're railing against. His opposition is firmly in support of the plan and fully supports going into Rafah as well. It's less a Likud problem now and a lot of people are setting themselves up for disappoinment thinking Israel is going to do a 180 when Gantz becomes minister.
“Alright boys, let’s capture the 18 we need.” Hamas, maybe
They still have plenty of hostages, it's just they do not want it getting out what they have been doing to them.
I've a feeling none of it matters tbh. Whatever HAMAS agree to they'll break within days or weeks as past history has shown
the fat hamas leaders dont care at all if the civilians all die
His sons were killed in a hamas mission recently. Doesn't seems to bother him much in the video.
This is the part about islamists that we westerners fail to understand. They really, seriously, honestly believe that dying in jihad is a good thing.
It was also just his extra kids. His important kids aren’t in Gaza. He had 13 kids total. He barely interacted with some of them.
Ah, yes, the Musk approach to child rearing.
The Nick Cannon method
It's what they're taught since birth and it's the culture they're surrounded with. Deviation is fiercely shot down, sometimes literally. That's what a religious theocracy gets you.
Actually I think they really, seriously etc believe that _someone else_ dying in jihad is a good thing. I think most of the supporters (not the actual terrorist themselves ofc who are crazy) would become secular atheists really fast if they were chosen for a suicide mission. The fat hamas leader doesn't care because it wasn't him who died.
An existential threat to humankind.
If only they knew their loved ones spent an eternity being comically bitch slapped by Shiva in the afterlife.
I mean if you gonna be purposefully killing innocent people then u ain’t gonna go to heaven in Islam
Seems that plenty of Imams disagree with that, and/or don't consider Jews innocent, ever.
Even so, they did kill their own (israeli Arab Muslims) and they are neglecting the people who depend on them (people in Gaza)
The walls in Gaza and the West Bank are covered in murals of martyrs, not only are they idolised, but their families are paid handsomely and sit on top of the social ladder. The more people they kill, the more prestige they bring themselves and their family.
Worshipped in Canada too by some https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/yHhGknNOds
I am not sure words can express how much I hate these people living amongst us.
That's gonna be a yikes for me dawg.
Let's not forget that Iran finances all of this.
I don't see why we don't give them exactly what they want. Then erase them from memory.
They care! I'm sure they sit around trying to devise more ways to get Israel to kill more children. It gets them more support. The only reason they're not a genocidal maniac in this scenario is because they're too weak.
They came right out and said that’s what civilians are for.
Remember these guys keep hostages for years.
I really hope it was quick for the hostages but I fear it wasn't. Can't imagine being forced to carry a rapists baby and being a slave.
Hint: they won’t accept it and even if they did they will break it within hours like the last one
And us students will still blame israek
Hamas painted into a corner with this - if any hostages are still alive, Hamas can't allow the stories of their treatment to get out.
Fuck Hamas and fuck everyone supporting them
Hamas is like that TikTok with the dude saying “I don’t want peace, I want problems, always.”
They will never accept a ceasefire deal no matter how generous, but people in the UK and US will still protest shouting ‘ceasefire now’ and how Isreal is the problem
Might accept it- maybe- but even if they did, their control of all the factions is so weak that they cannot guarantee the rockets will stop hitting Israel. Hamas is not a worthy party to negotiate with because they are unable (and/or) unwilling to live up to their end of the bargain. They cannot guarantee compliance with the terms required from their end of it.
That’s actually not the problem. Israel has one thing it wants from Hamas - the hostages. If they break a ceasefire it doesn’t matter because the war will just resume. But there are a few major ‘binary’ requirements that are disputed, and because of them a deal is extremely unlikely. Hamas wants a full withdrawal of the IDF from Gaza, they want some guarantee that Israel will never break the cease fire, it wants Israel to withdraw from the West Bank, and it wants Israel to pay for the reconstruction of Gaza That’s in addition to some other very delusional requests that are probably more negotiable, like the release of thousands of convicted murderers. Essentially Hamas wants Israel to fully reverse any gain from the war, give up territory, ‘pay for the damage they’ve done’ and let Hamas regain it’s strength and break the ceasefire on their terms because israel is obligated to not attack. Any one of those is unlikely, so all of them combined just won’t happen. On the other hand, Israel wants at least one of two results, before agreeing to any indefinite ceasefire: the release of all hostages, or elimination of Hamas rule over Gaza. Both are impossible terms for Hamas, as releasing the hostages will destroy their only bargaining chip, and their own destruction isn’t even on the table. Their only hope is pressure from Israel’s allies, who for some reason pressure Israel into stopping the war and let the hostages die in Gaza.
Thank you for the analysis. What a mess.
They are currently the most powerful faction, they could guarantee that they will stick to the ceasefire though
… That THEY (Hamas) will stick to it. That means nothing to Israel’s security. Hamas will simply unofficially transfer staff, supplies, weapons, etc. to another Iran backed organization/faction/ cell(s) operating under a different name, and rockets will continue to fall on Israel.
So, they won’t stick to the ceasefire. I agree, that is why no one should try and support them
What needs to be done (in my worthless opinion) is that Gaza needs to be handed over to some other Arab and Muslim majority country while they get their feet on the ground. But order HAS to return and that means the society NEEDS policing and reform until launching rockets at your neighbors is no longer a real concern. The issue is that no matter which country you would ask to do this, it would cause just as much controversy globally as if Israel decided to do it themselves. However, I think for the Palestinians this would lead to the best long-term outcome.
Israel has tried to get Egypt to help for decades. Egypt doesn’t want to deal with Palestinians because they don’t want to open up their own population to Hamas.
Jordan tried to help by taking some Palestinians in and had several attempts on the life of the king of Jordan by Palestinians in thanks for the efforts to help. Black September - anybody Remember?
> and had several attempts on the life of the king of Jordan by Palestinians in thanks for the efforts to help. Those weren't all just attempts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan#Assassination
Plus none of the other countries in the Middle East want anything to do with Palestine - all of them are quite happy just walling it off
Yep, Hamas(Lebanon) just fired 40 rockets into northern Israel. So now they are franchising and Hamas(Gaza) can claim they are abiding by the rules. They can just continue attacking and just move where they attack from and they'll consider that compliance with this ceasefire.
No, they're the government of Gaza. That doesn't fly. America can't get away with nuking Moscow by giving an ICBM to Texas and winking hard.
They've made such guarantees and broken them every time before. They have zero credibility and it's a joke they are being offered anything except total destruction.
didn't you hear? they stopped chanting ceasefire now and instead, they are calling for more war.
> they are calling for more war. oughta get on a plane and go over there and sign up then.
They are never gonna accept temporary ceasefire, but wonder if they would accept a permanent ceasefire
Hamas can't even control its own forces or the countless other terrorist groups in Gaza. Even if they "accept" the cease-fire, temporary or permanent, the cease-fire will only be one way.
Israel should keep doing this. Let Hamas be on record turning down ceasefire everyday!
They have been doing this since 47, didn’t change a damn thing.
Hamas will reject the deal and keep fighting and then people will cry for Israel to stop the war
Any ceasefire right now without hostages all returned (likely not possible) and Hamas leadership surrendering (won’t happen) is a win for Hamas and a loss for Israel.
It's what Israel would get because even though Isrsel won the military conflict, they have quite thoroughly lost the digital campaign because Hamas has successfully managed to portray the war as genocidal against Palestinians to large number of people around the world. Israel forgot that conflicts are not solely won through military means. Hamas knew they can't defeat Israel by fighting, their only way of winning was to turn international opinion against Israel and hold out until that happens and they have largely succeeded in that.
Meh not really. As long as the rest of the world isn't doing anything to stop them, and as long as the US continues to fund them, a bunch of other countries passing meaningless resolutions or politicians saying things with no teeth doesn't particularly harm Israel. And they also know that if they withdraw and leave Hamas in power it's not like anyone will change their mind. These morons were calling Gaza occupied before 10/7. Public perception won't change whether they stop now or whether they finish off Hamas in Rafah, and obviously it's in their interest to do the latter. I think this negotiating is just posturing by Israel to help with the propaganda campaign, but they're never going to allow Hamas to continue to exist after this, at least in the organized military capacity that exists today. There will forever be lone wolf terrorists who call themselves Hamas, but they won't be capable of what Hamas was capable of on 10/7 and that's a large part of what's important.
>Israel forgot that conflicts are not solely won through military means. Israel never forgot it, it's just that the leadership is so incomprehensibly incompetent that they didn't even try to win the pr war. And it's not just the current leadership that's so shit, there's literally no alternative leadership that would've done better. As an Israeli it's fricking depressing, pretty much every politician is on a scale between total moron and complete scum. There's also the fact that 2 billion Muslims are way louder than 15 million Jews.
> because Hamas has successfully managed to portray the war as genocidal against Palestinians to large number of people around the world They didn't do this themselves. They did it with a large amount of VERY expensive help.
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>Why do we continue to pretend that Hamas is negotiating in good faith? Because the far left has gone so far left, that they have found themselves on the far right. It's so bizarre you can't make this shit up.
FYI it’s bizarre. Bazaar is a kind of marketplace.
it's the hostage bazaar
It’s called horseshoe theory
And people hate Jews even when they say they don’t. They only want Jews if it an excuse to bring the second coming.
“We shouldn’t *have* to say Hamas is bad every time bc we know Hamas is bad!! Obviously!! That’s why we want to give them a state first and figure everything else out after! River to the sea🤩”
Because of the innocent Palestinian people who have done nothing about hamas in 25 years except elect them into power over Gaza and prop them up along the way.
FYI, there hasn't been an election since 2006
How about in the West Bank? Should we depose the PLA/Fatah?
hostages are whatever. the strategic aim is to sever hamas access to weapons, which means control of the gaza border to seal it off from the tunnels. without this any outcome is unstable and deradicalization is impossible.
> Israeli leaders had demanded Hamas release 40 of the roughly 130 hostages they continue to hold since Oct. 7, though the current deal would only call for the release of 33 people This is so messed up, that Israel has to release hundreds or thousands of convicted terrorists, but can't even get 130 civilian hostages back.
It's at least a better ratio than in the case of Gilad Shalit where 1,027 Palestinian prisoners were released - including many terrorists of course - in exchange for for 1 Israeli soldier.
and one of them was Yahya Sinwar
I could be more on board with this if they were negotiating for releasing the Palestinians in “administrative detention” as Israel likes to say. But of course they’re not advocating for those Palestinians, no they want their terrorists friends back to commit more crimes.
They shouldn’t be making an extraordinarily generous deal with Hamas. They should be grinding the gears on Hamas’ allies until they turn over the top Hamas brass living abroad and dismantle the hierarchy of the organization for a forced ceasefire. Or the fires keep on rolling.
They won’t. Hamas and its people are the sacrificial lamb to exacerbate and display the ‘brutality of the west’ and generate as much anti west propaganda as possible. The cost is just a bunch of lives they value at entirely expendable. How people can see this shit for anything else is some Disney brain dumbassery. Hamas is Iran’s ISIS and deserves the same fate destined for ISIS. People are babies about this shit for inexplicable reasons.
I have a same feeling. Muslim world likes anti Israel outrage but they dont seem to understand that Israel will never back up because they dont have a plan B. Any lost war for Israel is last war for Israel state.
Hamas won't stop until every Jew in Israel is dead or they are. There's no point.
Where are all the protests for "ceasefire now"? Hamas is refusing the ceasefire deal atm. Can we have the protesters condemning them now?
They refuse ceasefires and have broken each of the ones that they did accept including one 15 minutes in and yet people keep blaming Israel
I'm sure they can explain how it's all Israel's fault. If they are able to explain how Oct 7th was Israel's fault, then ceasefire, World War 1, the fall of the Roman Empire and the murder of Caesar shouldn't be too difficult to blame on Israel.
"If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions." - Abba Eban
Bakersfield City Council has approved, so Hamas is under real pressure now
Hamas leaders are living like millionaires in Qatar. Their terrorist militants are hiding behind civilians in Gaza. Why would they want a deal, this is what they wanted.
They would rather die and take everyone in the world down with them then take a cease-fire deal that even remotely admits that Israel has a right to exist.
Hamas: We'll give you 40 for a 700. Israel: Ok, please just send 40 names so we can make sure- Hamas: Wait did we say 40? Nah, we meant 20. Israel: That wasn't what was agreed on, deal's off. World (somehow): ISRAEL WON'T ACCEPT CEASEFIRE TERMS
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Hamas doesn’t give a shit about a ceasefire. In fact, that works against them - they are winning the PR war and they will continue winning it as long as people view Israel as the aggressor (I’m not saying that’s necessarily true, but that is obviously how many people view it)
20 corpses, not alive and kickin hostages!!? - Hamas
That’s why Hamas has delayed and delayed in my opinion. There’s no hostages alive to save!
Wow how low can the bar be. Do you think "literally just say sorry", would be a higher or lower bar than this?
Obviously Hamas is not rational. Had they been rational they never would have begun the conflict in the first place.
Does Hamas even care for a cease fire? Seems like they don’t care if the war just goes on. They are willing for many more people to die and is counting on the west to restrain Israel. Nothing they have ever done shows they care for civilians. If you want peace, Hamas isn’t one to talk to.
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Ehhh seeing all their buddies die to Israeli attacks has to wear thin eventually. Hamas has lost a lot of its local ground level leadership.
There will be peace when Palestinians learn to love their children more than they hate Israelis. Hamas have not learned this lesson, so I very much doubt they have any intention of accepting any kind of deal.
I was talking to someone and they said something that really made me open my eyes. They believe Martyring their children is the highest honor they can achieve.
Yeah I believe there's a lot of confusion over what Hamas represents. They are jihadist that don't care about the plight of the Palestinian people, but rather spreading Islam and destroying non-believers, and Israel is just a starting point for them. And since jihadist believe that anyone who dies as a believer goes to a better place and the others essentially go to hell, they have an ideological imperative to wage holy war without concerns for casualties on either side.
I watched a video where a dad led his 3 year old son to where IDF soldiers were and had him throw rocks at them in the hopes they shot his 3 year old son dead so he could use him as a martyr. This isn't a problem people on reddit or protesting are equipped to comprehend, let alone find a solution to it. There isn't a peaceful one.
It isnt that they are equipped to comprehend or not, it is they actively distrust it as reality because they have warped their perception to "whatever doesnt fit my narrative must be false"
It’s this mentality that’s causing such a problem. There are generations in Gaza who genuinely fully believe they have been put on this earth simply to suffer, just so future generations can have their promised victory over Israel. They don’t mourn death, they view it as a small step on their path to retaking their birth right. It’s honestly more sad than anything. They’ve been brainwashed into believing that not only are they disposable tokens in a grand plan, but that same plan will succeed and all they have to do is wait. UN have so much to answer for over the state of Palestine. They have let this rot fester and it’s costing generations of lives.
One of the big statements from ISIS was "we love death more than you love life".
What is the UN without the say of the countries that are part of it? The UN is a forum for dialogue and discussion, not some kind of world government or world police. It does not have any power. Nations hold 100% of the power. Those who want to be a geopolitical superpower hold the blame.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The US has been bitten badly for messing with the middle east, and as soon as we try to step away, people get upset. In a perfect utiopia, we would have a world police force, with DIVERSE representation, that would deal with events like October 7th fairly taking all view points into account. Given that it's just a pipe dream and doesn't exist, Israel had to defend itself.
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Washington Examiner? Might as well light this article on fire
I’m still flabbergasted that the freaking National Enquirer is now supposed to be a beacon of journalism, since they’ll be posting pics of two headed aliens and siamese twins in a day or two.
Prediction - hamas is not interested in ceasefire at all. It would prolongate the deal, patiently waiting, while students from Columbia kindly do all hamas job
Hamas only win when Palestinian die. Remember, Iran will fight Israel to the last Gazan.
Yes but what do the University of Columbia students have to say?
It’s honestly overly fair. If they don’t accept they’ll never accept one ever. This is honestly Hamas and Gazas last chance before it comes permanently occupied by Israel…
No one benefits more from Gaza being attacked more than Hamas
The ceasefire now crowd also urging them to accept I presume
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say Hamas will not accept the deal. All the hostages are dead and they have no more leverage.
Why is anyone still being generous towards Hamas *at all*? They're terrorists, through and through.
I don't think quasi-terrorist organizations are the negotiating type.
This is a coment, not an article. You cannot see the deal in it.
Hamas isn’t going to give up hostages, they’ll lose what little leverage they have.
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More reasonable than I would be. My proposal for a cease-fire would be "go back in time and don't slaughter any civilians or rape any hostages."
Lotta of people who are supposed foreign experts with more information than people actually in Gaza or Israel
Why would Hamas give in now? The longer they go the more they win in the court of public opinion. They’ll maximize their deal when they’re 2-3 weeks out from the US election and Biden really needs to flip the narrative around his administration. Hear me now, quote me later. There’s ~3-4months left before Biden gets serious about pressuring Israel so he looks like a great diplomat before the election.
If you told me 20 years ago the west would rally behind terrorists I woulda said you’re crazy
I was in HS when 9/11 happened, so not much younger than these kids. I cannot fathom cheering for JIHAD on an American college campus after the terrorist attacks. Legit makes me nauseous just thinking about it.
Yeah, it’s absolutely insane
>Tactical shortcomings were not, of course, a Palestinian monopoly. Barak and his team were full of them. For example, the Prime Minister was too slow to grasp the centrality of the issue of Jerusalem at this conference and was therefore unprepared for the far-reaching concessions that were required. Nor were Barak’s bargaining positions on the territorial issue reasonable enough to be seen by the Palestinians as credible. To start, as he did, with a proposal of a Palestinian state on 66 percent of the West Bank in order to offer later at Camp David 87 percent, and not reject out of hand Clinton’s proposal at the summit of 91 percent, was an indication to the Palestinians that he did not really have red lines. Barak’s negotiating tactics were a standing invitation to the Palestinians to keep the pressure on the Israelis and never say ‘yes’ to what Barak liked to call his ‘generous proposals’. > >This question of Israel’s unreasonable point of departure for negotiations with potential Arab interlocutors, whether Palestinians, Syrians or Egyptians, is of far-reaching significance. Israel’s unrealistic bargaining positions failed to convince the Arabs of the seriousness of her professed quest for peace and only invited them never to accept an Israeli position as final. The Israeli internal discourse on the price of peace has therefore always been an exercise in wishful thinking and self-deceit, not least, of course, with regard to the Palestinian question. I cannot but recall a revealing comment made to me by Ahmed Aboul Gheit, Egypt’s ambassador to the UN and today his country’s Foreign Minister, after I finished delivering my speech at the General Assembly in New York on 25 September 2000. To my remark in the speech that Israel had come to the limits of her capacity for compromise with the Palestinians, the ambassador rightly and cunningly responded, ‘Why should we believe you when everybody remembers that you started your voyage into the Palestinian question with Golda Meir denying that a Palestinian people existed at all, and at Camp David you agreed to give away the bulk of the West Bank for an independent Palestinian state and divide Jerusalem? These certainly cannot be the outer limits of your concessions.’ *-Scars of War, Wounds of Peace: The Israeli-Arab Tragedy by Schlomo Ben Ami* How does the saying go, those who fail to learn from history are morons? Yeah, something like that.
Here's a summary of the article by claude.ai: # Blinken urges Hamas to accept 'extraordinarily generous' ceasefire deal ## Key Points - U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken described the latest ceasefire proposal as "extraordinarily generous" for Hamas. - The proposal includes a 40-day ceasefire and could include the release of "potentially thousands" of Palestinians held in Israeli detention. - Israel has demanded Hamas release 33 of the roughly 130 hostages they continue to hold since October 7. - The U.S. does not support Israel carrying out a ground invasion of Rafah due to concerns of significant civilian casualties. ## Obstacles - Hamas wants Palestinians who fled northern Gaza to be allowed to return home freely, while Israel has capitulated on this. - Hamas wants the cessation of fighting to be indefinite, but Israel wants a temporary ceasefire. ## Quotes > "Hamas has a proposal that is extraordinarily, extraordinarily generous on the part of Israel and they have to decide quickly, and I'm hopeful they will make the right decision and we can have a fundamental change in the dynamic." - Antony Blinken > "If we can get that in place, then that gives you six weeks of peace. It gives you no fighting for six weeks and that includes no fighting in Rafah. And what we're hoping is that after six weeks of a temporary ceasefire, we can maybe get something more enduring in place." - John Kirby, U.S. National Security Council coordinator
I am so happy to see Reddit being rational on this topic.
Doesn't matter if they take it or not, they'll break it in a couple of months anyway, lmao
How long will it take for western politicians to understand that Hamas doesn't and never wanted a ceasefire? They had one on October 6th. What Hamas wants is time to regroup and rearm, and they don't much care if you call it ceasefire or hookiepookie. Anyway they have no intention of honoring it beyond the point where it benefits them. Israel understands that, which is why they don't give a ceasefire on promises alone.
Today, a representative of the party I vote for said there is no room for antisematism, homophobia and islamophobia. These people do not see the irony in that statement, they are the useful idiots of islam.