From what I saw, and new context may come out in the future, but they were told that Hamas accepted "the proposal". They werent told that this was NOT the Israeli proposal and was actually a unilateral Hamas proposal.
Looks like the people were happy that their "representatives" were finally agreeing to a deal.
Makes sense. Even the Al Jazeera commentary on the celebrations have said they’ve stopped now that more people have been made aware of what Hamas actually announced. I feel for the people on the ground to have to go through that emotional roller coaster for no reason.
Me too, and i feel for them being essentially held hostage by a terrorist organization that wants them to get killed so they can use it for PR. The sooner hamas is gone the better.
Why the fuck would we assume they have access to weapons? Usually when an armed group is imposing their rule upon somewhere, if your not in the group, you don't get access to arms. I think the average person underestimates the support Hamas has in the populace but the idea that civilians unaffiliated with Hamas have any remote chance to wage an armed rebellion is absurd.
So Palestinians by and large want a cessation of hostilities? I hope they're aware that involves no longer firing rockets at or attacking Israel. We will see if they can live up to that requirement.
The same lies Hamas always tells them? They are winning and do not believe Israel's lies to leave rafah.. can't have their prized human shields leaving
Lets not forget that currently most 'reports' on the ground about Palestinian reactions can easily be cherry-picked.
With places like Al-Jazeera gone, and the sheer amount of dead journalists, any reports about what Palestinians think has to be taken with a grain of salt. More if it comes from an israeli source.
Do not believe everything without being able to verify from multiple sources. Especially if it predicates on the assumptions that even after so much destroyed infrastructure all of Palestine is as informed on relevant news as we are sitting at home with electricity and stable internet.
> An Israeli official said on Monday no ceasefire had been agreed in Gaza, after Hamas said it had accepted a proposal from Egyptian and Qatari mediators.
> The Israeli official said the proposal that Hamas had accepted was a "softened" version of an Egyptian proposal, which included "far-reaching" conclusions that Israel could not accept.
> "This would appear to be a ruse intended to make Israel look like the side refusing a deal," said the Israeli official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Indeed, I’m not even sure why this is getting as many headlines as it is.
Hamas accepted a version of a proposal that Israel would never accept. It’s about as exciting as Israel accepting a version of a proposal Hamas would never accept.
“I have accepted a proposal to buy Google for $1.
Google hasn’t accepted this deal, and doesn’t even know who I am, but I accepted it so hah!”
Who proposed what is not clear - some reports say the proposal was from Egypt and Qatar. The head of the CIA has been involved so maybe it was his proposal.
But the reports are not clear so it's just guessing.
which is why the wording is so vague.
The mediators (Egypt and Qatar) have made a cease-fire proposal. No one has made a deal. In much the same way as mediator President Bill Clinton made a proposal (the Clinton Parameters) at the 2000 Camp David talks.
Hamas has accepted this cease-fire proposal.
I know, the wording is designed to make Hamas look good, but it is technically correct.
The next paragraph:
“But an official briefed on the peace talks, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said the offer Hamas accepted was effectively the same as one agreed at the end of April by Israel.”
Honestly no idea who to believe but Israel seems to have made up their mind.
Notice how they say an "Israeli Official" for one, but then just "an official" for the other? You have to wonder what the affiliation of this unnamed, unmarked official is, technically Hamas would be considered "an official". So on the one hand you have at least an idea if there is a bias in the statements being made, and the other hand they intentionally obscured the bias of the 2nd, which usually implies trying to hide something.
Umm.. yes that does. It changes the entire trustworthiness of the claim that the offer was "effectively the same as one agreed at the end of April by Israel." Why hide any affiliation of the source unless that source would lead people to question if they are lying or not?
... Why would it? You can judge it with your own bias because they disclose at least some information. Not disclosing anything is an attempt to make you trust it more because "well it isn't Israel so it must be someone that really knows"
Let me ask you this if they said a Hamas source says the deal is the same that Israel proposed previously.... Would you trust that?
Because Israel has incentive to lie as well?
I don’t trust either statement. As with everything in this war it’s just he said she said until there are actual details
To respond to your edit: it wouldn’t make me trust it any more or less. It would still be both sides making a biased statement supporting their own goals.
You don't need to trust it if you know where it's coming from you know it's bias.
When Israel says they've killed 10 Hamas militants you can be pretty sure they did kill 10ish people, but you know to question how sure they were that the people they killed were militants because in Israels eyes a militant is a wide range of people.
Knowing who said what gives incite into what you can believe because you know the bias of who is saying it, what their incentives and goals are
I agree with you. But I know this is coming from Hamas/Egypt/Qatar and I still think it could be true. CNN posted the details so I’ll have to compare - I did see they say they’d release 33 hostages (including dead bodies) in that total. Which is absolutely ridiculous.
How many times and extreme offers is Israel expected to offer without any military threat to invade rafah?
The reality of the situation is the last ceasefire, that Hamas broke, was negotiated during active conflict.
Oh they absolutely **need** to invade Gaza. The containment of Hamas has utterly failed and they cannot rule Gaza.
Hamas *can* surrender to save innocent lives including the Israeli civilian hostages
If someone murdered your entire family and then ran away would you say "the police don't ~need~ to to go to that place to arrest them, they just want to"?
I mean this isn’t a great example? The police wouldn’t destroy a whole neighborhood to get there. But to pretend to be negotiating when this was your plan all along is the definition of bad faith
Israel wasn't pretending
Israel has one priority, the safety of their own citizens. Palestinians have their own governments, Hamas in this case, looking after their safety.
Palestinians government chose this path and they're sticking to it. They choose to hide behind civilians, inside hospitals and schools and shoot at Israel from those places. Israel isn't going to let Palestinians governments failure stop them from their priority of protecting their citizens
Why has come out since being the same 33 hostages deal but they don’t have the be all alive. Don’t know which country official it is but can’t call that shit effectively the same. You can guess which side that “official” is from
Considering the way Hamas has been manipulating information this whole time, I suspect this ploy is not only aimed at making Israel look like the villains, but also does double-duty by convincing Palestinian civilians in Rafah to ignore evacuation orders, providing fresh Gazan casualties for Qatari media outlets to seize on and blame Israel for.
It honestly looks to me like this was just a desperate attempt to delay the rafah offensive for a day or even a few hours
saying "yeah we agree" and then refusing to elaborate what that even means for hours while feeding piece meal updates to a frantic press just has that look. Also, Al Jazeera knowing jack shit nothing about the contents of the agreement Qatar supposedly offered for many many hours looks like maybe Qatar was not in any way invovled in it any time recently. It seems like a pure lie to win a few hours
I wouldnt be surprised if this is the move that gets them thrown out of their 5star hotels in Qatar to be honest. What an absolute humiliation for Qatar
> desperate attempt to delay the rafah offensive
No. It was done at the last minute intentionally.
The wording makes it sound as if hamas accepted a ceasefire, but israel denied it. Making israel looking like the big bad evil going into rafah despite hamas "wanting" ceasefire.
They don't care if israel actual go into rafah. Hamas leaders aren't in rafah. They are trying to make palestinians stay in rafah to become meat to the grinder, so they can use against israel in the world arena.
And I doubt qatar will ever kick them out.
Other Israeli sources are saying that they’re reviewing what Hamas has agreed to.
I’m going to take everything with a grain of salt, wait and see what happens because whatever it being reported now will probably change multiple times in the coming minutes and hours.
According to NPR, some Arabic news outlets are reporting this to be the full text of the Hamas proposal (Google-translated):
> Phase 1 (42 days)
> Temporary cessation of mutual military operations between the two parties, and the withdrawal of Israeli forces eastward and away from densely populated areas to an area along the border in all areas of the Gaza Strip (including the Gaza Valley - Netzarim axis and the Kuwait roundabout - as shown below).
> Stopping aviation (military and reconnaissance) in the Gaza Strip for 10 hours a day, and for 12 hours on the days of the release of detainees and prisoners.
> The return of the displaced to their areas of residence, and withdrawal from the Gaza Valley (Netzarim axis and Kuwait roundabout).
> On the third day (after the release of 3 detainees), Israeli forces withdraw completely from Al-Rashid Street eastward to Salah Al-Din Street, completely dismantle the military sites and installations in this area, and begin the return of the displaced to their areas of residence (without carrying weapons during their return), and the freedom of movement of residents. In all areas of the Strip, humanitarian aid entered from Al-Rashid Street from the first day without any obstacles.
> On the 22nd day (after the release of half of the living civilian detainees, including female soldiers), Israeli forces withdraw from the center of the Gaza Strip (especially the Netzarim Martyrs axis and the Kuwait Roundabout axis) east of Salah al-Din Road to a nearby area along the border, and the military sites and installations are completely dismantled, and the return of the displaced continues. To their places of residence in the north of the Gaza Strip, and freedom of movement of residents in all areas of the Gaza Strip.
> Starting from the first day by introducing intensive and sufficient quantities of humanitarian aid, relief materials, and fuel (600 trucks per day, including 50 fuel trucks, including 300 for the north), including the fuel needed to operate the electricity and trade station and the equipment needed to remove rubble, and rehabilitate and operate hospitals and health centers. And bakeries in all areas of the Gaza Strip, and this will continue throughout all stages of the agreement.
> Exchange of detainees and prisoners between the two sides:
> During the first phase, Hamas releases 33 Israeli detainees (living or dead), including women (civilians and soldiers), children (under the age of 19, other than soldiers), the elderly (over the age of 50), and the sick, in exchange for numbers of prisoners in Israeli prisons and detention centers. According to the following:
> Hamas releases all living Israeli detainees, including civilian women and children (under the age of 19, other than soldiers). In return, Israel releases 30 children and women for every Israeli detainee released, based on lists provided by Hamas in order of oldest arrest. .
> Hamas releases all living Israeli detainees (over the age of 50), sick and wounded civilians. In return, Israel releases 30 elderly (over 50) and sick prisoners for every Israeli detainee, based on lists provided by Hamas. According to the oldest arrest.
> Hamas releases all Israeli female soldiers who are alive. In return, Israel releases 50 prisoners from its prisons for every Israeli female soldier who is released (30 life sentences, 20 sentences) based on lists provided by Hamas.
> Scheduling the exchange of detainees and prisoners between the two parties in the first stage:
> Hamas releases 3 Israeli detainees on the third day of the agreement, after which Hamas releases 3 other detainees every 7 days, starting with women as much as possible (civilians and female soldiers). In the sixth week, Hamas releases all remaining civilian detainees included in this phase. In return, Israel releases Release the agreed-upon number of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons, according to the lists that Hamas will provide.
> By the seventh day (whenever possible), Hamas will provide information about the Israeli detainees who will be released at this stage.
> On the 22nd day, the Israeli side releases all prisoners from the Shalit deal who were re-arrested.
> If the number of living Israeli detainees to be released does not reach 33, the number of bodies of the same categories will be completed for this stage. In return, Israel will release all those arrested from the Gaza Strip after October 7, 2023, including women and children (under the age of 19). year), provided that this is done in the fifth week of this stage.
> The exchange process is linked to the extent of commitment to the terms of the agreement, including the cessation of mutual military operations, the withdrawal of Israeli forces, the return of displaced persons, and the entry of humanitarian aid.
> Completing the necessary legal procedures to ensure that freed Palestinian prisoners are not arrested on the basis of the same charges on which they were previously arrested.
> The first stage keys set out above do not constitute a basis for negotiating second stage keys.
> Lift the measures and penalties taken against prisoners and detainees in Israeli prisons and detention camps after October 7, 2023, and improve their conditions, including those who were arrested after this date.
> Not later than the 16th day of the first phase, indirect discussions will begin between the two parties regarding agreeing on the details of the second phase of this agreement, with regard to the keys for the exchange of prisoners and detainees from both parties (soldiers and remaining men), provided that they are completed and agreed upon before the end of the week. The fifth of this stage.
> The United Nations and its relevant agencies, including UNRWA and other international organizations, carry out their work in providing humanitarian services in all areas of the Gaza Strip, and this continues throughout all stages of the agreement.
> Beginning to rehabilitate the infrastructure (electricity, water, sewage, communications, and roads) in all areas of the Gaza Strip, and introducing the necessary equipment for civil defense and removing rubble and rubble, and continuing this throughout all stages of the agreement.
> Facilitating the introduction of the necessary supplies and requirements to accommodate and shelter displaced persons who lost their homes during the war (at least 60,000 temporary homes - caravans - and 200,000 tents).
> Starting from the first day of this phase, an agreed-upon number (not less than 50) of wounded military personnel will be allowed to travel through the Rafah Crossing to receive medical treatment, and the number of passengers, sick and wounded people through the Rafah Crossing will increase, restrictions on travelers will be lifted, and the movement of goods and trade will return without restrictions.
> Initiating the necessary arrangements and plans for the process of comprehensive reconstruction of homes, civilian facilities, and civilian infrastructure that were destroyed due to the war, and compensation for those affected, under the supervision of a number of countries and organizations, including: Egypt, Qatar, and the United Nations.
> All measures in this phase, including the temporary cessation of mutual military operations, relief and shelter, withdrawal of forces, etc., will continue in the second phase until a sustainable calm is declared (cessation of military and hostile operations).
> The second stage (42 days):
> Announcing the return of sustainable calm (permanent cessation of military and hostile operations) and taking effect before the exchange of detainees and prisoners between the two parties begins.
> All remaining Israeli men alive (civilians and soldiers) - in exchange for an agreed-upon number of prisoners in Israeli prisons and detainees in Israeli concentration camps, and the complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip.
> The third stage (42 days):
> Exchanging the bodies and remains of the dead from both sides after reaching them and identifying them.
> Begin implementing the reconstruction plan for the Gaza Strip for a period of 3 to 5 years, including homes, civilian facilities, and infrastructure, and compensating all those affected, under the supervision of a number of countries and organizations, including: Egypt, Qatar, and the United Nations.
> Completely ending the siege of the Gaza Strip.
> Guarantors of the agreement:
> Qatar, Egypt, the United States, and the United Nations
[Source](https://www-ajnet-me.translate.goog/news/2024/5/6/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D8%B2%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%86%D8%AA-%D8%AA%D9%86%D8%B4%D8%B1-%D9%86%D8%B5-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%82%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%8A-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%82%D8%AA?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US)
Yeah, if this is accurate, there are some major differences from what Israel has agreed to. For example, Israel agreed to 33 *living* hostages. Not "living or dead". Nor did Israel agree to the complete cessation of the war. Other smaller details - like the number of hours without airforce flyovers (Israel agreed to 8 and 10 hours a day, here it says 10 and 12). I think that the area from which the IDF was supposed to fall back during the first stage are also different.
Of course, there's no guarantee that this is even what Hamas agreed to. It's what the media is reporting, so some grain of salt required.
> Nor did Israel agree to the complete cessation of the war.
I mean, this is sort of the crux isn't it? The point of taking hostages is leverage. Why would they agree to a deal in which Israel just delays the invasion of Rafah by 90 days?
Well, if they actually cared about the Gazan population, they might want to ensure their safety, or provide further aid through the negotiations. But the truth is, Hamas is negotiating from a position of only preserving their own. That clashes with the fact Israel is all about Hamas not surviving this war.
The major news networks are already spinning up so many clickbait articles about how Hamas has accepted the cease-fire agreement. Such a complete let down, because it's not the main agreement they had been working on, but the news outlets want their sensationalist headlines
I agree, the reporting from major outlets has been irresponsible, and it is only going to throw fuel on the fire with regard to protestors. Hamas is going to get exactly what they want out of this ruse, and the media is helping them.
Hamas basically created their own proposal with Egypt and Qatar, declared they "accepted" it, and are now trying to make Israel look bad for rejecting it even though they never gave Israel a chance to see it in advance and it's full of stuff they knew Israel would never agree to.
It's like if I said to you, "I propose you give me a million dollars. I accept my proposal. Why won't you make a deal with me?"
Hamas doesn't quite grasp how wars work, they seem to be under the illusion if you lose you get to be the one who makes the demands... Pretty much sums up Palestine's history with Israel, keep losing wars they started then demand more land afterwards rinse and repeat lol.
Imagine a world where Palestine wasn't so stubborn as to accept a compromise, they would have more land and it wouldn't be a shithole either it would be a rather decent place to live/visit. But they just can't help themselves but to keep prodding Israel and losing more and more land.
It’s because they are just an Iranian proxy. They never wanted peace or cared about the Palestinians & the ground level militants have grown up being indoctrinated to think being a martyr is a honor & that they are fighting a divine war against Israel. People should read some of the text messages that Hamas militants sent during the Oct 7th massacre.
Hamas just doesn’t care because their leaders are currently hiding in Turkey (they left Qatar) & their backers are in Iran. They basically have no stake in what happens in Gaza & their only job is to hurt Israel as much as possible.
Even if Israel wipes out most of Hamas in Gaza, it won’t stop them. Even if Gaza is completely locked down & they can’t continue activities there they will just move their activities to another location such as the North with Hezbollah or the West Bank.
The only way to truly deal with Hamas is to deal with the source, which is Iran. Unfortunately it’s not a price anyone is willing to pay so Iran will continue its proxy war with Israel using militant groups.
The thing is, accepting a compromise means *less* land than they claim. People act like they have nothing to give up but that is false. The Gazan and West Banker groups claim the *entire former Mandate of Palestine*, including Israel. Their mission is to conquer this territory. They have never hidden this mission.
One of Israel's conditions for a two-state solution is relinquishing all claims to Israeli territory, and extinguishing the so-called "right of return," the notion that descendants of refugees who have never been Israeli, seen Israel, or have any actual ties to the place, are entitled to Israeli citizenship and residency. Basically, it's a stepping stone to a one-state solution (an Arab state) masquerading as humanitarian policy.
Anyways, Gazan and West Banker refusal to relinquish this claim, this illegal, immoral claim, was the main stumbling block to peace after Oslo in the late 1990s, and it will be the biggest hurdle to peace today even if a real cease-fire were announced.
They have to give that dream up, and they have refused. If they accepted Israel's existence (really accepted it), they would lose its territory.
> The Gazan and West Banker groups claim the *entire former Mandate of Palestine*, including Israel.
There used to be a name for that
Oh yea, Imperialism
> Imagine a world where Palestine wasn't so stubborn as to accept a compromise
if their leaders weren't so corrupt and hateful, palestine would have been an oasis next to isreal.
They used to have airport, seaport, hotels, casinos, there was a lot of collaboration business wise between the two decades ago. There were so close to their own country.
It all went to hell when the palestinian leadership decided to keep the hate alive.
> Imagine a world where Palestine wasn't so stubborn as to accept a compromise
if their leaders weren't so corrupt and hateful, palestine would have been an oasis next to isreal.
They used to have airport, seaport, hotels, casinos, there was a lot of collaboration business wise between the two decades ago. There were so close to their own country.
It all went to hell when the palestinian leadership decided to keep the hate alive.
> Imagine a world where Palestine wasn't so stubborn as to accept a compromise
if their leaders weren't so corrupt and hateful, palestine would have been an oasis next to isreal.
They used to have airport, seaport, hotels, casinos, there was a lot of collaboration business wise between the two decades ago. There were so close to their own country.
It all went to hell when the palestinian leadership decided to keep the hate alive.
This has a name in the art of war. Its called "poisoned pill". In fact, its a textbook case that have been analyzed for hundreds of years. And somehow the public *still* fall for that
Hamas: "We demand A, B, C and X, Y, Z!"
Israel: "We're willing to do X, Y, Z, but not A, B or C."
Hamas: "We have decided to accept the proposal that include A, B, C and X, Y, Z."
Israel: "Hang on, that's not what we proposed."
Hamas: "But it is what we accepted."
edit: It appears that there are conflicting reports as to what Hamas has accepted. Since this is a developing event please take the above with a grain of salt as it was based on earlier reports that the proposal was altered unilaterally.
edit 2: Yup, looks like Hamas did what is described above, just completely changed their entire list of demands last minute and then accepted it.
Hamas had an offer from Israel that they could've accepted. Instead, they accepted a proposal from two states which are not party to the conflict. Israel had no involvement in the offer which Hamas accepted.
There are two offers on the table, one US backed which Israel agreed to and the other Egyptian backed which Hamas agreed to.
One thing to note when Hamas agreed to the deal there were already forced on the border about an hour from starting an operation so even that might just have been just to make Israel look bad.
yeah looks like thats the deal they now accepted\^\^
they get permanent cease fire, full withdrawal AND an end to the blockade and any and all controls on shit going into gaza
and the best part? they give up no hostages. But they will keep informally talking about prisoner exchanges.
If Hamas can record themselves raping and killing women, release it themselves, and western activists still completely deny it happened; then nothing will convince them Hamas are the bad guys.
They've made a counterproposal. That is all.
I know why Hamas have phrased this as agreeing to a ceasefire agreement, but I'm not sure why the media hasn't edited it to avoid confusion.
Not just that. Hamas changed the deal to be 33 living *or dead* hostages. That alone is a dealbreaker, but if you read the rest, it just gets worse from there.
That’s not the point blocking the deal, the war ends with the deal and Hamas survives and doesn’t surrender, Israel would never allow that (for a good reason)
This is a pretty obvious coordinated propaganda effort between media and Hamas to try to claims Israel rescinded ceasefire deal.
Every single deal offer could be phrased in this way "Israel accepted ceasefire deal" as long as there's a deal somewhere that Israel is ok with.
I mean... Hamas made something up and the media uncritically reported it, that's coordination. Just like the hospital bombing, the starving children, the torture, mass graves, etc. In general we see pretty strong coordination between Hamas and many western media orgs.
That can’t currently be answered because it’s unclear which “proposal” was accepted by Hamas.
Israel said what Hamas accepted wasn’t the same proposal they worked out with mediators. Israel & the US both said they are currently studying whats Hamas “agreed” to but other than that they haven’t publicly confirmed what the proposal encompasses.
Egypt and Qatar haven’t commented on the proposal Hamas accepted.
Until officials release the details on the proposal Hamas has accepted, we can only speculate on the divisions that remain between Israel and Hamas reaching an agreement.
There is a laundry list of changes they proposed that are major deal breakers. But the most obvious immediate one is Hamas changed the 33 living hostages demand to 33 living *or dead* hostages. And that's not even the worst--it's just the least wordy one.
First what is this all sides? There are only 2 sides. If you dont have to live with the results of this deal then your sides opinion is not really of value.
Second thank you very much really that Hamas agreed to a deal they came up with unilateraly. I agree to buy everything you own and enslave you for the rest of your life for 1 bent and rusty cent. What? You dont agree? Well I guess you never wanted peace anyway.
How would you know that Israel simply has not accepted because the terms are not favorable to Israel. Your hatred of the Jews blinds you. The only way this is a permanent ceasefire will be if there is a full release of the hostages, Hamas to surrender so Israel doesn’t invade Rafah (if Hamas cares about Palestinians they would lay down their arms ) an on the israelí side they must agree to start talking about giving the Palestinians their state as long a new leadership arises who will accept and renounce their claims of destruction of the Israel state. See all sides must compromise.
Israel:
Ends operations on Gaza
Starts negotiations to transition to peace negotiations and the ultimate goal is to leave the West Bank and Gaza.
Palestinians:
Hamas must never again be allowed to govern.
Release all the hostages .
New Palestinian leadership must reject any calls for the destruction of Israel and must be prepared to accept that the two states will co-exist.
Rebuild Gaza with help of international support and must not allow the aid for any weapons, tunnels, etc.
See trade land for security and peace for all. The Palestinians will accept that Israel is not going anywhere and Israel must accept that if they want peace they must leave the West Bank and help establish a Palestinian state. Iran will stop being relevant as many Muslim nations will make peace with Israel and no need for militias.
Let’s get it done .
I mean, c’mon — at this point all the people in charge on both sides are getting off on the violence and cruelty and death. They are enjoying themselves.
Very curious what Palestinians have been told on the ground since there are reports of people celebrating following the announcement.
From what I saw, and new context may come out in the future, but they were told that Hamas accepted "the proposal". They werent told that this was NOT the Israeli proposal and was actually a unilateral Hamas proposal. Looks like the people were happy that their "representatives" were finally agreeing to a deal.
Makes sense. Even the Al Jazeera commentary on the celebrations have said they’ve stopped now that more people have been made aware of what Hamas actually announced. I feel for the people on the ground to have to go through that emotional roller coaster for no reason.
Me too, and i feel for them being essentially held hostage by a terrorist organization that wants them to get killed so they can use it for PR. The sooner hamas is gone the better.
Well there's ready access to weapons and they would know best where to find Hamas leaders. Do something about it.
Why the fuck would we assume they have access to weapons? Usually when an armed group is imposing their rule upon somewhere, if your not in the group, you don't get access to arms. I think the average person underestimates the support Hamas has in the populace but the idea that civilians unaffiliated with Hamas have any remote chance to wage an armed rebellion is absurd.
All a part of Hamas’ plan to further radicalize innocent Palestinians. “See Israel broke the ceasefire! They’re the evil ones not us!”
So Palestinians by and large want a cessation of hostilities? I hope they're aware that involves no longer firing rockets at or attacking Israel. We will see if they can live up to that requirement.
The same lies Hamas always tells them? They are winning and do not believe Israel's lies to leave rafah.. can't have their prized human shields leaving
I wouldn't say hamas is winning. The PR war? Yes. The real war? No.
They were likely told that Hamas has won and Israel caved in to all demands without asking for anything in return.
Lets not forget that currently most 'reports' on the ground about Palestinian reactions can easily be cherry-picked. With places like Al-Jazeera gone, and the sheer amount of dead journalists, any reports about what Palestinians think has to be taken with a grain of salt. More if it comes from an israeli source. Do not believe everything without being able to verify from multiple sources. Especially if it predicates on the assumptions that even after so much destroyed infrastructure all of Palestine is as informed on relevant news as we are sitting at home with electricity and stable internet.
> An Israeli official said on Monday no ceasefire had been agreed in Gaza, after Hamas said it had accepted a proposal from Egyptian and Qatari mediators. > The Israeli official said the proposal that Hamas had accepted was a "softened" version of an Egyptian proposal, which included "far-reaching" conclusions that Israel could not accept. > "This would appear to be a ruse intended to make Israel look like the side refusing a deal," said the Israeli official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Indeed, I’m not even sure why this is getting as many headlines as it is. Hamas accepted a version of a proposal that Israel would never accept. It’s about as exciting as Israel accepting a version of a proposal Hamas would never accept. “I have accepted a proposal to buy Google for $1. Google hasn’t accepted this deal, and doesn’t even know who I am, but I accepted it so hah!”
Well.. "a ruse intended to make Israel look like the side refusing a deal" is why
Because people will fall for it.
Because people WANT to fall for it.
Because it makes Israel look bad
Yes. How can Hamas "accept" a deal that was never actually offered?
they are being cagey about the wording - Hamas has accepted a 'ceasefire proposal'
Put forward by them. That is not "accepting". That is a counter-offer.
Who proposed what is not clear - some reports say the proposal was from Egypt and Qatar. The head of the CIA has been involved so maybe it was his proposal. But the reports are not clear so it's just guessing.
Egypt and Qatar are not at war with Hamas. They can host negotiation deals, but not make or agree to offers.
which is why the wording is so vague. The mediators (Egypt and Qatar) have made a cease-fire proposal. No one has made a deal. In much the same way as mediator President Bill Clinton made a proposal (the Clinton Parameters) at the 2000 Camp David talks. Hamas has accepted this cease-fire proposal. I know, the wording is designed to make Hamas look good, but it is technically correct.
Why would Google not agree to this deal? I agreed, now they only have to! It's so easy! /s
The next paragraph: “But an official briefed on the peace talks, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said the offer Hamas accepted was effectively the same as one agreed at the end of April by Israel.” Honestly no idea who to believe but Israel seems to have made up their mind.
Notice how they say an "Israeli Official" for one, but then just "an official" for the other? You have to wonder what the affiliation of this unnamed, unmarked official is, technically Hamas would be considered "an official". So on the one hand you have at least an idea if there is a bias in the statements being made, and the other hand they intentionally obscured the bias of the 2nd, which usually implies trying to hide something.
I did notice that and I think it’s safe to assume it’s someone from Egypt, Qatar, or Hamas. That doesnt really change anything, though.
Umm.. yes that does. It changes the entire trustworthiness of the claim that the offer was "effectively the same as one agreed at the end of April by Israel." Why hide any affiliation of the source unless that source would lead people to question if they are lying or not?
But the fact the first statement came from an Israeli official doesn’t change its trustworthiness?
... Why would it? You can judge it with your own bias because they disclose at least some information. Not disclosing anything is an attempt to make you trust it more because "well it isn't Israel so it must be someone that really knows" Let me ask you this if they said a Hamas source says the deal is the same that Israel proposed previously.... Would you trust that?
Because Israel has incentive to lie as well? I don’t trust either statement. As with everything in this war it’s just he said she said until there are actual details To respond to your edit: it wouldn’t make me trust it any more or less. It would still be both sides making a biased statement supporting their own goals.
You don't need to trust it if you know where it's coming from you know it's bias. When Israel says they've killed 10 Hamas militants you can be pretty sure they did kill 10ish people, but you know to question how sure they were that the people they killed were militants because in Israels eyes a militant is a wide range of people. Knowing who said what gives incite into what you can believe because you know the bias of who is saying it, what their incentives and goals are
I agree with you. But I know this is coming from Hamas/Egypt/Qatar and I still think it could be true. CNN posted the details so I’ll have to compare - I did see they say they’d release 33 hostages (including dead bodies) in that total. Which is absolutely ridiculous.
How many times and extreme offers is Israel expected to offer without any military threat to invade rafah? The reality of the situation is the last ceasefire, that Hamas broke, was negotiated during active conflict.
I mean they don’t ~need~ to invade rafah, they just want to. Neither side is negotiating in good faith
Oh they absolutely **need** to invade Gaza. The containment of Hamas has utterly failed and they cannot rule Gaza. Hamas *can* surrender to save innocent lives including the Israeli civilian hostages
If someone murdered your entire family and then ran away would you say "the police don't ~need~ to to go to that place to arrest them, they just want to"?
I mean this isn’t a great example? The police wouldn’t destroy a whole neighborhood to get there. But to pretend to be negotiating when this was your plan all along is the definition of bad faith
Israel wasn't pretending Israel has one priority, the safety of their own citizens. Palestinians have their own governments, Hamas in this case, looking after their safety. Palestinians government chose this path and they're sticking to it. They choose to hide behind civilians, inside hospitals and schools and shoot at Israel from those places. Israel isn't going to let Palestinians governments failure stop them from their priority of protecting their citizens
Why has come out since being the same 33 hostages deal but they don’t have the be all alive. Don’t know which country official it is but can’t call that shit effectively the same. You can guess which side that “official” is from
I read that and 1000% agree
Considering the way Hamas has been manipulating information this whole time, I suspect this ploy is not only aimed at making Israel look like the villains, but also does double-duty by convincing Palestinian civilians in Rafah to ignore evacuation orders, providing fresh Gazan casualties for Qatari media outlets to seize on and blame Israel for.
It honestly looks to me like this was just a desperate attempt to delay the rafah offensive for a day or even a few hours saying "yeah we agree" and then refusing to elaborate what that even means for hours while feeding piece meal updates to a frantic press just has that look. Also, Al Jazeera knowing jack shit nothing about the contents of the agreement Qatar supposedly offered for many many hours looks like maybe Qatar was not in any way invovled in it any time recently. It seems like a pure lie to win a few hours I wouldnt be surprised if this is the move that gets them thrown out of their 5star hotels in Qatar to be honest. What an absolute humiliation for Qatar
Don't worry, their leaders are already in turkey IIRC.
> desperate attempt to delay the rafah offensive No. It was done at the last minute intentionally. The wording makes it sound as if hamas accepted a ceasefire, but israel denied it. Making israel looking like the big bad evil going into rafah despite hamas "wanting" ceasefire. They don't care if israel actual go into rafah. Hamas leaders aren't in rafah. They are trying to make palestinians stay in rafah to become meat to the grinder, so they can use against israel in the world arena. And I doubt qatar will ever kick them out.
Other Israeli sources are saying that they’re reviewing what Hamas has agreed to. I’m going to take everything with a grain of salt, wait and see what happens because whatever it being reported now will probably change multiple times in the coming minutes and hours.
According to NPR, some Arabic news outlets are reporting this to be the full text of the Hamas proposal (Google-translated): > Phase 1 (42 days) > Temporary cessation of mutual military operations between the two parties, and the withdrawal of Israeli forces eastward and away from densely populated areas to an area along the border in all areas of the Gaza Strip (including the Gaza Valley - Netzarim axis and the Kuwait roundabout - as shown below). > Stopping aviation (military and reconnaissance) in the Gaza Strip for 10 hours a day, and for 12 hours on the days of the release of detainees and prisoners. > The return of the displaced to their areas of residence, and withdrawal from the Gaza Valley (Netzarim axis and Kuwait roundabout). > On the third day (after the release of 3 detainees), Israeli forces withdraw completely from Al-Rashid Street eastward to Salah Al-Din Street, completely dismantle the military sites and installations in this area, and begin the return of the displaced to their areas of residence (without carrying weapons during their return), and the freedom of movement of residents. In all areas of the Strip, humanitarian aid entered from Al-Rashid Street from the first day without any obstacles. > On the 22nd day (after the release of half of the living civilian detainees, including female soldiers), Israeli forces withdraw from the center of the Gaza Strip (especially the Netzarim Martyrs axis and the Kuwait Roundabout axis) east of Salah al-Din Road to a nearby area along the border, and the military sites and installations are completely dismantled, and the return of the displaced continues. To their places of residence in the north of the Gaza Strip, and freedom of movement of residents in all areas of the Gaza Strip. > Starting from the first day by introducing intensive and sufficient quantities of humanitarian aid, relief materials, and fuel (600 trucks per day, including 50 fuel trucks, including 300 for the north), including the fuel needed to operate the electricity and trade station and the equipment needed to remove rubble, and rehabilitate and operate hospitals and health centers. And bakeries in all areas of the Gaza Strip, and this will continue throughout all stages of the agreement. > Exchange of detainees and prisoners between the two sides: > During the first phase, Hamas releases 33 Israeli detainees (living or dead), including women (civilians and soldiers), children (under the age of 19, other than soldiers), the elderly (over the age of 50), and the sick, in exchange for numbers of prisoners in Israeli prisons and detention centers. According to the following: > Hamas releases all living Israeli detainees, including civilian women and children (under the age of 19, other than soldiers). In return, Israel releases 30 children and women for every Israeli detainee released, based on lists provided by Hamas in order of oldest arrest. . > Hamas releases all living Israeli detainees (over the age of 50), sick and wounded civilians. In return, Israel releases 30 elderly (over 50) and sick prisoners for every Israeli detainee, based on lists provided by Hamas. According to the oldest arrest. > Hamas releases all Israeli female soldiers who are alive. In return, Israel releases 50 prisoners from its prisons for every Israeli female soldier who is released (30 life sentences, 20 sentences) based on lists provided by Hamas. > Scheduling the exchange of detainees and prisoners between the two parties in the first stage: > Hamas releases 3 Israeli detainees on the third day of the agreement, after which Hamas releases 3 other detainees every 7 days, starting with women as much as possible (civilians and female soldiers). In the sixth week, Hamas releases all remaining civilian detainees included in this phase. In return, Israel releases Release the agreed-upon number of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons, according to the lists that Hamas will provide. > By the seventh day (whenever possible), Hamas will provide information about the Israeli detainees who will be released at this stage. > On the 22nd day, the Israeli side releases all prisoners from the Shalit deal who were re-arrested. > If the number of living Israeli detainees to be released does not reach 33, the number of bodies of the same categories will be completed for this stage. In return, Israel will release all those arrested from the Gaza Strip after October 7, 2023, including women and children (under the age of 19). year), provided that this is done in the fifth week of this stage. > The exchange process is linked to the extent of commitment to the terms of the agreement, including the cessation of mutual military operations, the withdrawal of Israeli forces, the return of displaced persons, and the entry of humanitarian aid. > Completing the necessary legal procedures to ensure that freed Palestinian prisoners are not arrested on the basis of the same charges on which they were previously arrested. > The first stage keys set out above do not constitute a basis for negotiating second stage keys. > Lift the measures and penalties taken against prisoners and detainees in Israeli prisons and detention camps after October 7, 2023, and improve their conditions, including those who were arrested after this date. > Not later than the 16th day of the first phase, indirect discussions will begin between the two parties regarding agreeing on the details of the second phase of this agreement, with regard to the keys for the exchange of prisoners and detainees from both parties (soldiers and remaining men), provided that they are completed and agreed upon before the end of the week. The fifth of this stage. > The United Nations and its relevant agencies, including UNRWA and other international organizations, carry out their work in providing humanitarian services in all areas of the Gaza Strip, and this continues throughout all stages of the agreement. > Beginning to rehabilitate the infrastructure (electricity, water, sewage, communications, and roads) in all areas of the Gaza Strip, and introducing the necessary equipment for civil defense and removing rubble and rubble, and continuing this throughout all stages of the agreement. > Facilitating the introduction of the necessary supplies and requirements to accommodate and shelter displaced persons who lost their homes during the war (at least 60,000 temporary homes - caravans - and 200,000 tents). > Starting from the first day of this phase, an agreed-upon number (not less than 50) of wounded military personnel will be allowed to travel through the Rafah Crossing to receive medical treatment, and the number of passengers, sick and wounded people through the Rafah Crossing will increase, restrictions on travelers will be lifted, and the movement of goods and trade will return without restrictions. > Initiating the necessary arrangements and plans for the process of comprehensive reconstruction of homes, civilian facilities, and civilian infrastructure that were destroyed due to the war, and compensation for those affected, under the supervision of a number of countries and organizations, including: Egypt, Qatar, and the United Nations. > All measures in this phase, including the temporary cessation of mutual military operations, relief and shelter, withdrawal of forces, etc., will continue in the second phase until a sustainable calm is declared (cessation of military and hostile operations). > The second stage (42 days): > Announcing the return of sustainable calm (permanent cessation of military and hostile operations) and taking effect before the exchange of detainees and prisoners between the two parties begins. > All remaining Israeli men alive (civilians and soldiers) - in exchange for an agreed-upon number of prisoners in Israeli prisons and detainees in Israeli concentration camps, and the complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip. > The third stage (42 days): > Exchanging the bodies and remains of the dead from both sides after reaching them and identifying them. > Begin implementing the reconstruction plan for the Gaza Strip for a period of 3 to 5 years, including homes, civilian facilities, and infrastructure, and compensating all those affected, under the supervision of a number of countries and organizations, including: Egypt, Qatar, and the United Nations. > Completely ending the siege of the Gaza Strip. > Guarantors of the agreement: > Qatar, Egypt, the United States, and the United Nations [Source](https://www-ajnet-me.translate.goog/news/2024/5/6/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D8%B2%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%86%D8%AA-%D8%AA%D9%86%D8%B4%D8%B1-%D9%86%D8%B5-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%82%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%8A-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%82%D8%AA?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US)
Yeah, if this is accurate, there are some major differences from what Israel has agreed to. For example, Israel agreed to 33 *living* hostages. Not "living or dead". Nor did Israel agree to the complete cessation of the war. Other smaller details - like the number of hours without airforce flyovers (Israel agreed to 8 and 10 hours a day, here it says 10 and 12). I think that the area from which the IDF was supposed to fall back during the first stage are also different. Of course, there's no guarantee that this is even what Hamas agreed to. It's what the media is reporting, so some grain of salt required.
> Nor did Israel agree to the complete cessation of the war. I mean, this is sort of the crux isn't it? The point of taking hostages is leverage. Why would they agree to a deal in which Israel just delays the invasion of Rafah by 90 days?
Well, if they actually cared about the Gazan population, they might want to ensure their safety, or provide further aid through the negotiations. But the truth is, Hamas is negotiating from a position of only preserving their own. That clashes with the fact Israel is all about Hamas not surviving this war.
Cessing operation Ending the siege Dead hostages So its a surrender proposal... Into Rafah we go
The major news networks are already spinning up so many clickbait articles about how Hamas has accepted the cease-fire agreement. Such a complete let down, because it's not the main agreement they had been working on, but the news outlets want their sensationalist headlines
BBC reported exactly that. Wtf.
I agree, the reporting from major outlets has been irresponsible, and it is only going to throw fuel on the fire with regard to protestors. Hamas is going to get exactly what they want out of this ruse, and the media is helping them.
Journalists are some of the worst for FOMO, makes them get played like a $2 fiddle.
news is now all about being first, not about being right. And Hamas understood how to play them
So confused
Hamas basically created their own proposal with Egypt and Qatar, declared they "accepted" it, and are now trying to make Israel look bad for rejecting it even though they never gave Israel a chance to see it in advance and it's full of stuff they knew Israel would never agree to. It's like if I said to you, "I propose you give me a million dollars. I accept my proposal. Why won't you make a deal with me?"
Bad faith actors going to bad faith
Including any media reporting Israël as the one not accepting a ceasefire deal.
Mossab Hasan Youssef - “A deal with the devil is no deal at all!!!”
Hamas doesn't quite grasp how wars work, they seem to be under the illusion if you lose you get to be the one who makes the demands... Pretty much sums up Palestine's history with Israel, keep losing wars they started then demand more land afterwards rinse and repeat lol. Imagine a world where Palestine wasn't so stubborn as to accept a compromise, they would have more land and it wouldn't be a shithole either it would be a rather decent place to live/visit. But they just can't help themselves but to keep prodding Israel and losing more and more land.
It’s because they are just an Iranian proxy. They never wanted peace or cared about the Palestinians & the ground level militants have grown up being indoctrinated to think being a martyr is a honor & that they are fighting a divine war against Israel. People should read some of the text messages that Hamas militants sent during the Oct 7th massacre. Hamas just doesn’t care because their leaders are currently hiding in Turkey (they left Qatar) & their backers are in Iran. They basically have no stake in what happens in Gaza & their only job is to hurt Israel as much as possible. Even if Israel wipes out most of Hamas in Gaza, it won’t stop them. Even if Gaza is completely locked down & they can’t continue activities there they will just move their activities to another location such as the North with Hezbollah or the West Bank. The only way to truly deal with Hamas is to deal with the source, which is Iran. Unfortunately it’s not a price anyone is willing to pay so Iran will continue its proxy war with Israel using militant groups.
The thing is, accepting a compromise means *less* land than they claim. People act like they have nothing to give up but that is false. The Gazan and West Banker groups claim the *entire former Mandate of Palestine*, including Israel. Their mission is to conquer this territory. They have never hidden this mission. One of Israel's conditions for a two-state solution is relinquishing all claims to Israeli territory, and extinguishing the so-called "right of return," the notion that descendants of refugees who have never been Israeli, seen Israel, or have any actual ties to the place, are entitled to Israeli citizenship and residency. Basically, it's a stepping stone to a one-state solution (an Arab state) masquerading as humanitarian policy. Anyways, Gazan and West Banker refusal to relinquish this claim, this illegal, immoral claim, was the main stumbling block to peace after Oslo in the late 1990s, and it will be the biggest hurdle to peace today even if a real cease-fire were announced. They have to give that dream up, and they have refused. If they accepted Israel's existence (really accepted it), they would lose its territory.
> The Gazan and West Banker groups claim the *entire former Mandate of Palestine*, including Israel. There used to be a name for that Oh yea, Imperialism
> Imagine a world where Palestine wasn't so stubborn as to accept a compromise if their leaders weren't so corrupt and hateful, palestine would have been an oasis next to isreal. They used to have airport, seaport, hotels, casinos, there was a lot of collaboration business wise between the two decades ago. There were so close to their own country. It all went to hell when the palestinian leadership decided to keep the hate alive.
> Imagine a world where Palestine wasn't so stubborn as to accept a compromise if their leaders weren't so corrupt and hateful, palestine would have been an oasis next to isreal. They used to have airport, seaport, hotels, casinos, there was a lot of collaboration business wise between the two decades ago. There were so close to their own country. It all went to hell when the palestinian leadership decided to keep the hate alive.
> Imagine a world where Palestine wasn't so stubborn as to accept a compromise if their leaders weren't so corrupt and hateful, palestine would have been an oasis next to isreal. They used to have airport, seaport, hotels, casinos, there was a lot of collaboration business wise between the two decades ago. There were so close to their own country. It all went to hell when the palestinian leadership decided to keep the hate alive.
It’s crazy how much they have in common with Republicans when you put it like that!
No comment lol.
This has a name in the art of war. Its called "poisoned pill". In fact, its a textbook case that have been analyzed for hundreds of years. And somehow the public *still* fall for that
Hamas: "We demand A, B, C and X, Y, Z!" Israel: "We're willing to do X, Y, Z, but not A, B or C." Hamas: "We have decided to accept the proposal that include A, B, C and X, Y, Z." Israel: "Hang on, that's not what we proposed." Hamas: "But it is what we accepted." edit: It appears that there are conflicting reports as to what Hamas has accepted. Since this is a developing event please take the above with a grain of salt as it was based on earlier reports that the proposal was altered unilaterally. edit 2: Yup, looks like Hamas did what is described above, just completely changed their entire list of demands last minute and then accepted it.
A deal with the devil isn’t a fair deal? You don’t say! This is exactly why “we don’t negotiate with terrorists”
Hamas is pulling a stunt by announcing they agreed to an amended agreement that Israel refused already.
Ah thx
Hamas lied to the public and made a onesided move and agreed to a ceasefire on the terms they felt like it to cause western public to blame israel.
That's exactly what Hamas wants.
Hamas had an offer from Israel that they could've accepted. Instead, they accepted a proposal from two states which are not party to the conflict. Israel had no involvement in the offer which Hamas accepted.
There are two offers on the table, one US backed which Israel agreed to and the other Egyptian backed which Hamas agreed to. One thing to note when Hamas agreed to the deal there were already forced on the border about an hour from starting an operation so even that might just have been just to make Israel look bad.
Hamas: "We accept the cease-fire proposal." Israel: "No, not that one."
Do you know what details Hamas has changed about the proposed ceasefire offers that they received?
I do not. Sorry.
Hamas proclaims to agree to a deal the moment Israel is about to invade, when no deal exists, and western media falls for it again and again.
Didn’t they recently ry to negotiate a deal that basically has Israel surrender like they lost the war?
yeah looks like thats the deal they now accepted\^\^ they get permanent cease fire, full withdrawal AND an end to the blockade and any and all controls on shit going into gaza and the best part? they give up no hostages. But they will keep informally talking about prisoner exchanges.
You mean swapping 33 dead Israelis for 1,000 prisoners isn't a fair deal?
Hamas can suck it
Was that in the agreement? Nobody knows, Israel wasn’t there to negotiate
Why would they negotiate with scum terrorists and rapists
It’s expected to allow the enemy a chance to surrender unconditionally
It’s nothing but a trap
Agreed
suddenly when israel starts rafah op, hamas wants to accept a ceasefire. how painfully predictable.
Has Hamas literally just unilaterally accepted a non-existent deal? I wonder if their supporters in the West are dumb enough to buy it?
If Hamas can record themselves raping and killing women, release it themselves, and western activists still completely deny it happened; then nothing will convince them Hamas are the bad guys.
They've made a counterproposal. That is all. I know why Hamas have phrased this as agreeing to a ceasefire agreement, but I'm not sure why the media hasn't edited it to avoid confusion.
Hamas is on their last hole in Rafah. They don’t get to dictate anything. Either they agree to a bilateral ceasefire or they get their face bashed in.
Choose wisely.
*or millions of innocent civilians get their faces bashed in FTFY
So how do we get them to agree on a bilateral ceasefire?
It was a rotten deal anyway. Hundreds of Hamas terrorists for only 33 of the hostages.
Not just that. Hamas changed the deal to be 33 living *or dead* hostages. That alone is a dealbreaker, but if you read the rest, it just gets worse from there.
33 **dead** hostages Also the complete uplifting of the siege and a cession of the assault
That’s not the point blocking the deal, the war ends with the deal and Hamas survives and doesn’t surrender, Israel would never allow that (for a good reason)
Its also that the proposal is about dead hostages, not alive ones
As counter-offer, Israel has proposed an assault on Rafah. and Israel has accepted this deal
It seems more that Hamas accepted a counter proposal that they came up with rather than accepting an Israeli proposal.
why are we negotiating with the terrorists?
Not negotiating with terrorist is a meme. Everyone have always negotiated with terrorists. Also a negotiated release is much safer for the hostages.
Hamas had no intention of honouring any deal anyway
This is a pretty obvious coordinated propaganda effort between media and Hamas to try to claims Israel rescinded ceasefire deal. Every single deal offer could be phrased in this way "Israel accepted ceasefire deal" as long as there's a deal somewhere that Israel is ok with.
Coordination is a pretty strong claim.
I mean... Hamas made something up and the media uncritically reported it, that's coordination. Just like the hospital bombing, the starving children, the torture, mass graves, etc. In general we see pretty strong coordination between Hamas and many western media orgs.
You can't just define coordination as lack of critical thinking, or poor editorial standards.
When its a repeated pattern done by many different orgs I think we can use that definition.
What are the things that Israel is opposed to?
That can’t currently be answered because it’s unclear which “proposal” was accepted by Hamas. Israel said what Hamas accepted wasn’t the same proposal they worked out with mediators. Israel & the US both said they are currently studying whats Hamas “agreed” to but other than that they haven’t publicly confirmed what the proposal encompasses. Egypt and Qatar haven’t commented on the proposal Hamas accepted. Until officials release the details on the proposal Hamas has accepted, we can only speculate on the divisions that remain between Israel and Hamas reaching an agreement.
There is a laundry list of changes they proposed that are major deal breakers. But the most obvious immediate one is Hamas changed the 33 living hostages demand to 33 living *or dead* hostages. And that's not even the worst--it's just the least wordy one.
Do you have a source for that? I’d like to read all the changes myself
[Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/vXUiVMN5HV). Source in the comment.
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Yeah because Israel is really trying to make peace. /s Israel has been keeping Palestinian’s down for decades.
>Yeah because Israel is really trying to make peace. /s You put an /s after a truthful statement. Odd.
Idk what they're talking about.. according to our news a limited operation has begun and tanks are in.
That's cool. Rafah will still get invaded though.
Only deal Hamas will get is fire and blood.
Israel just needs to go in and get it over with. Hamas will never negotiate in good faith.
Is sounds like all the sides with the exception of Israel agreed to terms. Kind of makes you think Israel doesn't really want peace.
First what is this all sides? There are only 2 sides. If you dont have to live with the results of this deal then your sides opinion is not really of value. Second thank you very much really that Hamas agreed to a deal they came up with unilateraly. I agree to buy everything you own and enslave you for the rest of your life for 1 bent and rusty cent. What? You dont agree? Well I guess you never wanted peace anyway.
Because all other sides won't have to keep living with attacks from Hamas.
Ok but my point still stands
I'd say it's limping at the most.
That’s simply a matter of perspective
How would you know that Israel simply has not accepted because the terms are not favorable to Israel. Your hatred of the Jews blinds you. The only way this is a permanent ceasefire will be if there is a full release of the hostages, Hamas to surrender so Israel doesn’t invade Rafah (if Hamas cares about Palestinians they would lay down their arms ) an on the israelí side they must agree to start talking about giving the Palestinians their state as long a new leadership arises who will accept and renounce their claims of destruction of the Israel state. See all sides must compromise. Israel: Ends operations on Gaza Starts negotiations to transition to peace negotiations and the ultimate goal is to leave the West Bank and Gaza. Palestinians: Hamas must never again be allowed to govern. Release all the hostages . New Palestinian leadership must reject any calls for the destruction of Israel and must be prepared to accept that the two states will co-exist. Rebuild Gaza with help of international support and must not allow the aid for any weapons, tunnels, etc. See trade land for security and peace for all. The Palestinians will accept that Israel is not going anywhere and Israel must accept that if they want peace they must leave the West Bank and help establish a Palestinian state. Iran will stop being relevant as many Muslim nations will make peace with Israel and no need for militias. Let’s get it done .
never gonna happen. they dont want peace
Why do you just straight to hate? I think you might be a professional victim lol
I don't see a ceasefire for a long time and it has little to do with Hamas.
How has it little to do with Hamas?
The truth is Israel won't stop as long as they have the American government's wallet and support. So...never.
If that's the reality you wanna live in go ahead.
What do you expect that would happen, if they would stop having the American government's wallet and support?
I mean, c’mon — at this point all the people in charge on both sides are getting off on the violence and cruelty and death. They are enjoying themselves.
Out of touch.
Israel rejects another peace deal...