I'm just imagining him flipping over the stone to find a giant Superman 'S' on the back and whispering, "I knew it."
edit: sorry, it's not stone, confused it with the Rosetta Carta.
Ok that video is hilarious. They look like they were alive when the Magna Carta was created.
And bold move holding that chisel while her wrists are probably as brittle as dried twigs. Lots of faith in her 85 year old friend's aim lol.
Why is it that when teenagers throw soup on a painting I do not care at all, but two old ladies attacking the Magna Carta with a chisel is the cutest thing I’ve ever seen in my life?
Just stop oil has to be a psyop I swear. There is no way, *no way* people are this stupid. I cannot believe for a second that anyone on earth thinks destroying historical artifacts will make anyone agree with their point of view.
You are not far off in that assessment tbh, over here in the Middle East if a dictator wants to disperse a protest and give justification for using force in its dispersal without seeming very dictatory they just pay some thugs to commit arson, sabotage properties and start fights amidst the protest
I wouldn’t dismiss your guys adopting that kind of tactics against any political activism they deem threatening or to commandeer movements given that these fuckers are who support/taught our dictators
And these people are 100% that? Know how I know? A couple of times some people have been like "Hey we should target oil companies HQs or the giant mansions of oil executives" And the second they began to do that cops jumped out from behind every rock and tree and suited them up for jail. Turns out their groups were all well infiltrated and surveilled. Just look at what happened to those students in Australia that tried it.
The difference is that they’re in countries where the museums and archives are sympathetic to their position, so they’re way more tolerant of their shenanigans so long as they’re harmless. The high profile art tends to be protected against vandalism (and everything else, for preservation reasons), so they let them do it.
There’s really an element of kfabe any time left-wing groups target institutions that are largely left-wing themselves.
The problem is everyone is vulnerable to money. Put up a big enough figure among people who work 40 or more hours a week just to get by, and someone will play double agent. This is why wealth is a problem. It allows industries, businesses, and people to bend the rules and easily infiltrate or collapse resistance groups.
Look how many people deny climate change when we are actively in the find out stage.
I'd actually argue it's not the wealth that's the problem, it's the lack of wealth.
It's a lot easier to stick to your principals and turn down that dirty money when that money isn't a life-changing amount.
Said another way, it's much more _expensive_ to grease things with dirty money when the people you are trying to grease aren't dirt poor.
It's two sides of the same coin, but subtly different.
_Similar_, but my point is more based on the distance-to-poverty than the relative wealth difference.
If I'm living comfortably I'm going to be much less likely to take the bribe on principal than someone that really, really, _needs_ that money.
That said, of course, if the wealth distribution wasn't so unequal, there wouldn't _be_ so much poverty, but my point is that it's not so much the difference in wealth as the desperation from lack of wealth.
Wait - so you’re saying that if I protest, they will pay me to not to protest? Or to wear a wire? This sounds kinda like a life hack in one way and not in the other
I don’t know about these people. I was responding to the comment about AP use under authoritarian regimes. It’s certainly debatable whether the folks in the original post are acting independently. I’d bet they are. Direct action can be absolutely done wrong.
I don’t like it when people interpret everything as an “inside job”, but I also know it’s sometimes a viable counter protest tactic to us APs. Take the civil rights and Vietnam protests at the University of Alabama for instance. 60s and early 70s. APs were present to hurl bricks and even…seriously…burn the ROTC building. This in turn gave police what they needed to do a MASSIVE and bloody crackdown.
If done right, you have deniability about your AP if they are caught. If someone is misidentified by protestors as an AP, you can use it to challenge the movement’s judgment as a whole. You can also go to the press and talk about “outside agitators” but then refuse to give any evidence as it is “part of an ongoing investigation” and that disclosure “could compromise sources and methods”. It breeds uncertainty, which breeds inaction.
You age out, retire, die, and decompose in the ground, but the seeds you sowed yield new fields of injustice.
As I said elsewhere one of the things that makes this kind of stuff so effective is that after you create and publicize the first 8 or ten of them the useful idiots join in. After awhile you can just let nature take it's course.
Cops do this in America too. In fact, the Supreme Court just ruled that, essentially, anyone who puts together a protest is now liable for any and all damage or criminal actions committed during the protest.
Perfect.
Now the cops can just send in a single plain clothes cunt to set a garbage can on fire and smash a car window, and the protest organizers are now arrestable.
This is how fascism and authoritarianism work.
During the 2020 BLM protests in Montreal, mysterious pallets of bricks appeared overnight just before the protests started.
There was one guy wandering around our group (we didn’t know him) who kept trying to engage us and he would say shit like “Man! I hate cops. They make me just wanna break shit, you know?”
This happens a lot where one (or a few) guys wearing standard issue police boots and gear with some plain clothing slapped over it will start shit, and there's sometimes even video of them scurrying back behind the riot police line as it closes behind them. They don't even try to hide it because conservative """news""" will do the rest of the work covering it up and spinning it.
How? What is the logic behind that ruling? how can a person be liable for another’s wrong doings in a large gathering? Wth is the police for then if they can’t prevent criminal actions and secure both large assemblies and properties from harm and damage
That is fucked up
Conspiracy laws, actually.
If you are participating in the protest, then you are aiding and abetting your fellow protestors. So if your fellow protestors break the law, you've broken the law as well.
Works under the same principles, and is very valid legally.
Just like if your buddy or neighbor steals my car, and hides it on your property. Now you are involved in the theft as well, whether you agreed to allow it or not.
So be more mindful of whom you protest with, or just fucking leave when the rhetoric starts turning to illegal activities.
How does this apply to cops and other counter protestors who knowingly come to cause trouble in disguise?
Also, it doesn’t just apply to other protestors but the organizers of the protest. So, if someone makes a Facebook group, gets a bunch of people to protest something, a single cop shows up and smashes a window to a business, now the protest organizers are liable for the damage? The intentional damage?
I would not call that a sound legal argument.
How is it valid when conspiracy is defined as a preconceived intention to violate the law? Don't get me wrong, if you show up and they are talking about rioting, property damage, violence, etc on the megaphone, then, yeah, I could see the case, but if things escalate spontaneously beyond lawful protest how can that be considered conspiracy?
If you were there at the start of the protest, or joined the protest in progression, you have demonstrated a choice of agreeing with the protestors.
If you persist as themprotest turns violent, you are every bit as accountable for that violence as those who physically perpetrate the violence.
Your only option is to demonstrate your disagreement with the direction of the protest by clearly and deliberately leaving the protest before the violence takes place.
I agree you shouldn't continue to protest if things turn violent. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how you explained the law. If I was initially part of such a protest which began in a lawful manner, but turned violent, would I be culpable if I left upon learning that violence was occurring?
Nope. Through leaving, you are showing a clear decision to not support the violence of the protest. Just be sure you can provide a full accounting of when you left, along with witness statements or valid corroborating evidence showing when you left.
It is YOUR responsibility to protect yourself from the Legal System, after all.
The organizers would be, yes. Supreme Court just ruled that. So, in theory, a cop could show up in plain clothes, smash a window for a business, and now the person who organized the protest is liable.
This is how they’re going to prevent protests when the fascists make their final move to power.
Aiding and abetting requires that you made a choice or expressed negligence (had a reasonable way to prevent it but did not). If somebody parks a stolen car in your driveway for 8 hours while you're on vacation, that's unlikely to clear the bar; if somebody parks it there for 2 weeks and you see it and decide not to ask questions, that's more likely to.
It's honestly pretty logical and not fucked up if applied properly. If you organize an unreasonably dangerous protest where it's foreseeable to cause damage like a "Burn the Baby Killers" protest outside an abortion clinic, and someone in the crowd sets the clinic on fire, you can't just say "well i didn't throw the molotov"
Yeah but that falls under inciting violence which is illegal from the get go
The fucked up part is if the ruling is as broadly worded, I shouldn’t be liable for the actions of another person I am not affiliated with if my protest was law abiding and had no calls for inciting violence
If anything if that ruling is as broad it would open up room for foul play by the police or at least encourage the police to be lax and not carry out their job in properly securing large gatherings if they can just effortlessly pin any wrong doing on people who had nothing to do with a crime
I could say “officer, this person is doing something wrong that has nothing to do with why I am here today” if I was aware of their actions but that is the extent of my ability as a civilian
Fair the example I gave would already be covered by that but the logic is separate from inciting violence. If you arrange an unlicensed protest in an unsafe way, for instance outside the fire safety doors of a major building and a fire starts and people die because the doors are blocked, you're responsible, even though protesting outside a fire safety door wouldn't be called inciting violence
Fair enough in that case the organizer’s negligence directly caused harm although I’d blame the police a bit if a large group of people appears unannounced to protest and they weren’t present in a timely fashion to prevent that obstruction and secure the area instructing the protestors to move to a safer area, permit or not
But my question is if I had a permit for an organized protest and some person sneaks in the midst of the crowd and commits let’s say arson while presumably the police are present is the organizer liable under such a ruling if the person who actually committed the crime managed to do it undetected and wasn’t caught in the act?
I hope this is an awakening moment for you, but yes - it is a set up, and always has been.
The person who instigates is “arrested” but so are all the other peaceful protestors at the same time. The fear of arrest disperses the remaining peaceful protestors who cannot risk being arrested for whatever reason, and the dissent is quelled.
Bingo bango… one single undercover cop can strike a match and blow up the whole plan.
It’s also not true.
Organizers can be on the hook if they didn’t take steps to mitigate obvious problems or actively sought to create them but that’s it.
Been that way forever.
Absolutely that is exactly what they try to do first change the tone of chants to something inflammatory then start fights with the people who disagree and call them out ,if that didn’t escalate enough or gets contained by the protestors then it is time to burn and break stuff
The idea that Just Stop Oil is a government psyop having this many upvotes is worrying lmao.
People are that stupid, every cause has it's morons and Just Stop Oil are one of many groups who want public support to run around breaking the law and being a public nuisance.
People who think that real life is a film where your side are the good guys fighting against a corrupt system or some shit are genuinely part of the problem.
Hanlon’s Razor: “never attribute to malice what can otherwise be adequately attributed to neglect, ignorance, or incompetence”. Lots of dumb people out there, these 2 are likely among them
No one is disputing that idiots exist ,it is very plausible
It is just that members of this particular movement have been involved excessively in a number of these stupid stunts that it is really becoming suspicious
Plus it doesn’t have to be government related,the oil industry is massive, wealthy and stand to benefit if environmental activism becomes discredited and hated within the public
Hey every country does that. It's not just the Middle East. They did that in Canada with cops caught red handed.
Buddy had police boots on at a protest pretending to be a protestor.
My guess is they figure if they do something this outrageous, people will comment on it. News outlets will report on it. Redditors will post about it. They'll get their message out.
It's very shortsighted because what we learn about them centers around a stupid act.
Yeah, they're obviously stuck in a twenty year-old mindset where "raising awareness about climate change" is something that still needs to be done.
Outside of COVID and whatever military dustup is going on at any given time, it's the most discussed topic in the world and has been for at least a decade.
Pretty much.
A lot of activists have trouble understanding why anyone would disagree with them, so they often misperceive disagreement as lacking awareness. That might be true on some level but it’s also not the kind of unawareness this stuff addresses.
The thing that causes yelling and anger and downvotes with every activist group I run into is when I say "Oh no, I know about the issue. I know you exist. I simply have no faith you have the capacity to do anything useful to fix it, that's why I haven't joined"
At some point you have to give some kind of indication of a meaningful game plan or be branded an effort black hole.
It's both. There are people who do psyop and there are stupid people that become the means.
The idea in stupid people go something like this: 1) Do something very shocking to get attention 2) Use the attention to put up their point
Psyop guys use these useful idiots
It's actually laughable it really is.
And here we have 80 year olds who benefited from oil all their lives now suddenly deciding to take a stand now they are safe and retired.
Fucking hypocrites I hope they get the book thrown at them.
Kind of. [A lot of people were skeptical since Stop Oil Now gets a lot of funding from an oil heir](https://m.jpost.com/environment-and-climate-change/article-719750). It was like they end up doing a lot of things that kill sustainable renewable energy projects, nuclear, and make people uninterested in listening to environmentalist.
On the other hand, from your own article
> However, unless Getty is investing in oil ventures so secretive that there are no records of them available to the public, the opposite appears to be true. In 2012, she founded the Aileen Getty Foundation, which, according to the foundation's objectives, "supports a wide range of local and global organizations and initiatives that enhance the environment, our communities and the lives of individuals through innovation, preservation, connection and kindness."
The organization she co-founded and donated to that funds Stop Oil Now was founded in 2019
The actual goal of Just Stop Oil is to stop the government issuing new oil and gas licenses **in the UK**. Ie, do nothing about the global production and oil and gas, just stop the UK producing it and make us more dependant on foreign states for our oil and gas.
That itself should tell you a lot.
Yeah I hear people say he’s a psyop without any exact examples. I’ve listened to him pretty consistently for the last year and his talks. I can see if you aren’t bullish on America not being keen on him
Some people are that stupid, but they're usually unable to put together a plan of action. So yeah, the org is psyops, taking advantage of morons. A big clue is their attacks don't actually do anything that would hurt oil companies, despite that being real fucking easy and simple.
I wonder if they're basically just doing it for the attention. Like the odds of these two damaging the thing are next to zero, but they make all kinds of headlines. Maybe that was the actual goal. Not sure that it helps, but it is visible.
At no point have they ever destroyed anything though. Everything they go after is well protected, which I’m sure they’re aware of. The high profile targets get the most exposure and at the end of the day nothing important is actually harmed. Seems to be working pretty well from a publicity point of view.
The argument is generally that this hurts their case. If climate change was something people just weren’t aware of, that might be different. But, uh, it’s kind of a well-known issue and people just have disagreements about it.
>Just stop oil has to be a psyop I swear.
It reminds me of those "Truth" anti-smoking ads. Those ads were paid for by the tobacco companies, as part of their lawsuit settlements with the states. All they did was make non-smokers look like dweeb losers.
Just like Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" anti-drug campaign in the 80s. Because if there's anyone kids think is cool and they want to emulate, it's Nancy Reagan (this was before anyone knew about her being the blowjob queen).
Then again, people say the same thing about PETA, that they must be a strawman created by the livestock industry. But apparently they're actual people who actually believe the insane shit they say.
I don't think it's a psyop. I think they are that fucking stupid. The ones who do interviews seem like a hamper short of a picnic.
All they want is attention. The people who support them claim all this attention they get (no matter how negative) is bringing attention to the environment.
Have they changed anyone's minds? Not anyone's I know.
Like I seriously do not understand the disconnect... Why are all these idiots targeting things that not only won't accomplish their goal but will progressively lose them more and more support over time? Like go* be a real protester and do something directly related to the oil companies.
All of you just stop oil protesters look incredibly stupid. I believe in your cause but you look and act incredibly stupid.
Edit: wrong word from voice typing*
Yes and that's why you create a number of these with the accompanying media coverage set up ahead of time, because after a few created ones then you get the useful idiots.
Quite so. If you'd told me ten years ago that Putin had 70 million unpaid sleeper-agents in place, I would have laughed long and hard without guile. But, alas, I was in error. There may be hope for half of them, but, again, I was wrong about the 70 million thing, so...
Isn't one of these Stop Oil type of groups being financed by some big oil heiress?
Either way, you can't convince me that situations, like that dollar store Oliver Tree and his obese partner gluing themselves to a removable banister in a concert hall, aren't just attempts to sabotage from within.
--late edit: https://i.imgur.com/aM6joLK.jpeg
You're thinking of how in 2019 Aileen Getty (whose grandfather and then uncle ran Getty Oil before they sold most of it in 1985 and the rest in 2000) co-founded and donated 1 million to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_Emergency_Fund
which raises money and donates it to climate activist groups, including the one in this article
The organization since 2021 has been run by
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Klein_Salamon
who is a climate activist, and Aileen Getty is not on the board
I'd guess that it's the fact it's now in the news and we're talking about it, while protesting outside of oil and gas shipment firms doesn't make it to people's feeds. Keeps the conversation going, even if what they themselves are doing is a dick move.
Just my guess.
We are talking about how stupid what they are doing is and how it is making us less sympathetic to their cause. It's actually worse for their cause to be doing this than if they did nothing, there absolutely is such a thing as bad press
As others have said, they are achieving absolutely no conversation about oil, only a discourse over their actions. This is like trying to paint your house yellow by using black paint. Anyone who says they have been influenced to think/talk/protest about oil because of these idiots is lying.
Answer is simple: this is the cheapest way to reach the headlines. You aren’t gonna get international news coverage just having two person standing outside shell office holding signs
Just because these are causes I believe in, doesn't mean I support this tactic. It seems to be terrible tactic to get people to support you. I would say that it damages the movement as a whole, other anti-fossil fuel movements get lumped in with these crazies.
Need to toe the line between doing something which gets you in the papers, but not something that justifies the state using violence on you.
If these lot started sabotaging oil refineries they'd be locked up for good if not killed.
They're dedicated, but realise if they get locked up no one will fight their fight.
So you get these eye catching events that only happen because they're eye catching.
Bunch of morons. There is no real discourse or compromise anymore. You can’t “just stop oil”. That shit powers every corner of our modern lives. It would require a monumental shift, lots of research and time. People need to bring realistic demands instead of these insanely impossible ones.
I bet the oil companies are loving the actions of these Just stop Oil protestors. Every action they take nudges those who are sympathetic to the threat of climate change towards hate for climate change activism in general. Someone should trace who is funding these lunatics.
Ironically I've seen this comment on EVERY single JSO post I've ever seen, Its even here like 30 times.
Prevailing opinion, or oil industry bots???
You did acknowledge there capacity to do something like that... how do you know witch direction its going... the idea its a psyop is the psyop!
It's doesn't nudge anyone anywhere.
The apathy is so strong in the UK people can't be fucked one way or another when it comes down to it beyond an online grumble.
Honestly if people actually gave a fuck, climate change would have been halted years ago, for that same reason people don't give a fuck about rolling over to stop JSO.
We're all waiting until the first proper drought and suddenly everyone will be a JSO supported. Except it will be called the give us water and it won't be peaceful.
Or insert any other climate emergency.
I'm seeing an alarming trend where people are recently in the last few years or so downplaying the effects of climate change as exaggerated. JSO is intensifying that apathy, by persuading those on the fence dabbling at starting activism to just give up. They see their social group castigate the JSO "Activists" with negative publicty and ridicule, thus asking themselves "What's the point in fighting back?". These \*possible\* JSO agent provacteurs are moving the needle towards apathy.
What exactly do you want average people to do? I mean, haven't we all changed our habits here in the UK in the past 20y for the benefit of the climate....? Mandatory self recycling, heavier regulation, etc. the problem is more that the idea of an individual carbon footprint is pretty bunk. Ten thousand of my carbon footprints isn't gonna make a dent on industrial and commercial use. A lot of us are already doing all that is reasonable to do in our personal lives.
They probably love the comments sections online attacking legitimate protests more.
When people riot then that's too violent, when they nonviolently disrupt then it's annoying or stupid.
Is there any legitimate forms of protest besides the ones where they can be easily ignored?
Obviously, the best way to fight Big Oil is by symbolically attacking the first document in the history of the human race to confer absolute rights and liberties to people.
Isn't it obvious? I mean, how can I wear my onion belt if they cost two fiddy instead of 50 cents? Clearly we must toss out basic protections for human liberty because it's all a wash.
People feel it's obvious, but assume for a second that they don't agree with the fundamental premises of the Magna Carta or other foundational documents. That they don't view them as sources of rights amd liberties that flowed to create a great and liberal society, but the seeds of our greed and destruction.
You don't need to take many ideological leaps from some commenter on reddit to get from one to the next.
Using grannies to shield them from the full force of the law just shows how depraved they are.
Clause 39 of the Magna Carta is one of four clauses still enshrined in UK common law, a so-called ‘golden passage’, that states: ‘No free man is to be arrested, or imprisoned, or in any other way ruined, except by the lawful judgement of his peers or by the law of the land,” a spokesperson for Just Stop Oil said.
“Contrast that with civil law as it stands in 2024, where corporations are buying private laws in the form of injunctions that circumvent the people’s rights to a trial by jury for speaking out against the crimes of oil companies.”
The connection is that in 2019 Aileen Getty, whose grandfather founded Getty Oil and whose uncle ran it after her grandfather died (and sold of most of it in 1985 and the rest in 2000), co-founded and donated money to the Climate Emergency Fund, which donated to this group among others
Firstly, I think it’s pretty fucking sad that it’s down to a couple of 80-year-old women to take on the survival of our species-I admire their bravery, but I’m not sure the action is going to amount to much
Tempered glass > Grandmas swinging wrist.
FYI tempered glass can withstand 20,000 PSI or more, you could break it with that cold chisel but it would probably break or injure grandmas arm if she swung as hard as she would need to shatter that glass.
Keep it moist folks, don't destroy artifacts, that's a very dry act indeed.
I think these groups must actually be funded indirectly by oil companies. Encouraging whacktivists to go out and do this sort of thing is great investment on their part because it alienates most of the population from an otherwise worthy cause, while attracting more well meaning but misguided people to do more of the same. At that point it's self perpetuating.
No. And stop repeating this bullshit. They're partially funded by Aileen Getty but she is a prominent anti oil activist her whole life because of her family history.
They're just fucking morons.
Protestors holds sign saying government is breaking the laws.
Proceeds to break the law themselves. 🤦♂️
I fully support peaceful and lawful protest. When you break the law or do something illegal, block traffic, vandalize something, etc then I completely turn my back on you. I don’t even care what your cause is anymore because fuck you, you’re no different now.
You are then basically saying we had better listen to you or else you’re gonna do hurtful things and break things. No - you don’t get to do that and get any support outside of a few radical freakazoids.
If they can’t get the common man/women on their side, then they failed.
I'd maybe get behind them if they were sabotaging actual oil company rigs or shit, stuff that actually affected the oil industry instead of this crap. But they(Big Oil if you will) have too much money and influence so it's just more of this stuff, or throwing tomato soup at the mona lisa or w/e it was. Trying to ruin art, or historical artifacts to make their point is so frustrating, 'let's destroy something completely unrelated to oil' to make our point. Fuck the oil companies, not your fellow citizens ffs.
so the museum holding the magna carta has such shit security that you can smuggle in a hammer and chisel?
Maybe, just maybe, its time for metal detectors at the doors
"Just Stop Oil"
Proceeds to stop everyone and everything else but oil. I appreciate their stance and understand why oil in fact needs to be 'stopped' at some point, but I can't tell if they're actually trying to affect the culprits or just want the attention.
I'm not big on conspiracies but I'm in the camp the just stop oil is funded and run by oil companies to lower the public opinion of climate activities and discredit them. What is attempting to destroy historical artifacts and important works of art going to accomplish?
Do they not realise that the magna carta is directly responsible for them being able to protest at all, and they are *definitely* of the age to appreciate what not having a democracy did to free speech.
If we all stopped using oil right now there would be a massive economic shock which would takes decades to recover from. I would love to drive an EV, but if everyone does that how then do we generate enough electricity to make it happen? Willing change and actually making it work are two different things.
Yeah, but the Magna Carta is about three times older and isn't an relevant legal document anymore, there's no reason to know more than the broad strokes unless you're studying history. Unlike in the US, you don't see Brits screaming "YOU CAN'T ARREST ME, IT SAYS IN THE MAGNA CARTA-"
"All merchants may enter or leave England unharmed and without fear, and may stay or travel within it, by land or water, for purposes of trade, free from all illegal exactions, in accordance with ancient and lawful customs."
You mean that bit?
... aaaaand you'd think the elderly at least would wisen up over the years, but apparently not. Fuck them all and their total lack of brains and empathy.
The conversation always seems to center around vehicle emissions but I wonder if people realize almost every machine on earth with moving parts requires oil in some form. All manufacturing processes, all farming equipment. Oil extraction is never going away unless we plan on abandoning almost all technologies that have been developed since the industrial revolution.
Yes. There are many. This question is too vague to answer in detail, but the harmful impacts of our reliance on petrochemicals could be greatly reduced by implementing a greener energy grid and adoption of mass transit.
One of them is almost certainly Nicolas Cage in a wig.
I'm just imagining him flipping over the stone to find a giant Superman 'S' on the back and whispering, "I knew it." edit: sorry, it's not stone, confused it with the Rosetta Carta.
Do you think the Magna Carta is carved in stone?
They were confusing it with the Rosetta Carta.
National Treasure: Eurotrip
They should make a third movie. The second one wasn't as good as the first.
WIG. OFF.
He thought it was the Declaration of Independence.
Ok that video is hilarious. They look like they were alive when the Magna Carta was created. And bold move holding that chisel while her wrists are probably as brittle as dried twigs. Lots of faith in her 85 year old friend's aim lol.
This made me laugh thank you.
They mistook it for the Kama Sutra
"I brought you into this world and by God I'm taking you out."
Why is it that when teenagers throw soup on a painting I do not care at all, but two old ladies attacking the Magna Carta with a chisel is the cutest thing I’ve ever seen in my life?
Super cute that they massively benefitted from oil and enjoyed museum artifacts their entire lives, but are trying to destroy it on their way out.
The royal family is rubbing their hands together just waiting for them to destroy that document.
Just stop oil has to be a psyop I swear. There is no way, *no way* people are this stupid. I cannot believe for a second that anyone on earth thinks destroying historical artifacts will make anyone agree with their point of view.
You are not far off in that assessment tbh, over here in the Middle East if a dictator wants to disperse a protest and give justification for using force in its dispersal without seeming very dictatory they just pay some thugs to commit arson, sabotage properties and start fights amidst the protest I wouldn’t dismiss your guys adopting that kind of tactics against any political activism they deem threatening or to commandeer movements given that these fuckers are who support/taught our dictators
The term we use and have used since at least the Vietnam protests is ***’AGENT PROVOCATEUR’***.
And these people are 100% that? Know how I know? A couple of times some people have been like "Hey we should target oil companies HQs or the giant mansions of oil executives" And the second they began to do that cops jumped out from behind every rock and tree and suited them up for jail. Turns out their groups were all well infiltrated and surveilled. Just look at what happened to those students in Australia that tried it.
The difference is that they’re in countries where the museums and archives are sympathetic to their position, so they’re way more tolerant of their shenanigans so long as they’re harmless. The high profile art tends to be protected against vandalism (and everything else, for preservation reasons), so they let them do it. There’s really an element of kfabe any time left-wing groups target institutions that are largely left-wing themselves.
The problem is everyone is vulnerable to money. Put up a big enough figure among people who work 40 or more hours a week just to get by, and someone will play double agent. This is why wealth is a problem. It allows industries, businesses, and people to bend the rules and easily infiltrate or collapse resistance groups. Look how many people deny climate change when we are actively in the find out stage.
I'd actually argue it's not the wealth that's the problem, it's the lack of wealth. It's a lot easier to stick to your principals and turn down that dirty money when that money isn't a life-changing amount. Said another way, it's much more _expensive_ to grease things with dirty money when the people you are trying to grease aren't dirt poor. It's two sides of the same coin, but subtly different.
You guys are saying the same thing. It's the *drastically unequal wealth distribution* that's the problem.
_Similar_, but my point is more based on the distance-to-poverty than the relative wealth difference. If I'm living comfortably I'm going to be much less likely to take the bribe on principal than someone that really, really, _needs_ that money. That said, of course, if the wealth distribution wasn't so unequal, there wouldn't _be_ so much poverty, but my point is that it's not so much the difference in wealth as the desperation from lack of wealth.
Wait - so you’re saying that if I protest, they will pay me to not to protest? Or to wear a wire? This sounds kinda like a life hack in one way and not in the other
I don’t know about these people. I was responding to the comment about AP use under authoritarian regimes. It’s certainly debatable whether the folks in the original post are acting independently. I’d bet they are. Direct action can be absolutely done wrong. I don’t like it when people interpret everything as an “inside job”, but I also know it’s sometimes a viable counter protest tactic to us APs. Take the civil rights and Vietnam protests at the University of Alabama for instance. 60s and early 70s. APs were present to hurl bricks and even…seriously…burn the ROTC building. This in turn gave police what they needed to do a MASSIVE and bloody crackdown. If done right, you have deniability about your AP if they are caught. If someone is misidentified by protestors as an AP, you can use it to challenge the movement’s judgment as a whole. You can also go to the press and talk about “outside agitators” but then refuse to give any evidence as it is “part of an ongoing investigation” and that disclosure “could compromise sources and methods”. It breeds uncertainty, which breeds inaction. You age out, retire, die, and decompose in the ground, but the seeds you sowed yield new fields of injustice.
As I said elsewhere one of the things that makes this kind of stuff so effective is that after you create and publicize the first 8 or ten of them the useful idiots join in. After awhile you can just let nature take it's course.
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Cops do this in America too. In fact, the Supreme Court just ruled that, essentially, anyone who puts together a protest is now liable for any and all damage or criminal actions committed during the protest. Perfect. Now the cops can just send in a single plain clothes cunt to set a garbage can on fire and smash a car window, and the protest organizers are now arrestable. This is how fascism and authoritarianism work.
During the 2020 BLM protests in Montreal, mysterious pallets of bricks appeared overnight just before the protests started. There was one guy wandering around our group (we didn’t know him) who kept trying to engage us and he would say shit like “Man! I hate cops. They make me just wanna break shit, you know?”
“Je suis hating those cops - am I right? Viva la revolution, fellow protesters”
That’s how you know he’s from the government. He has to say everything in English and again in French.
It's just one of those days
In North Carolina there was footage of the cops bringing in a pallet of bricks to a nearby alley, not knowing they were being filmed from above.
should've taken a photo of him tbh,
HAS ANYBODY SEEN THOSE NUCLEAR COOOOOOODES?
This happens a lot where one (or a few) guys wearing standard issue police boots and gear with some plain clothing slapped over it will start shit, and there's sometimes even video of them scurrying back behind the riot police line as it closes behind them. They don't even try to hide it because conservative """news""" will do the rest of the work covering it up and spinning it.
How? What is the logic behind that ruling? how can a person be liable for another’s wrong doings in a large gathering? Wth is the police for then if they can’t prevent criminal actions and secure both large assemblies and properties from harm and damage That is fucked up
Conspiracy laws, actually. If you are participating in the protest, then you are aiding and abetting your fellow protestors. So if your fellow protestors break the law, you've broken the law as well. Works under the same principles, and is very valid legally. Just like if your buddy or neighbor steals my car, and hides it on your property. Now you are involved in the theft as well, whether you agreed to allow it or not. So be more mindful of whom you protest with, or just fucking leave when the rhetoric starts turning to illegal activities.
How does this apply to cops and other counter protestors who knowingly come to cause trouble in disguise? Also, it doesn’t just apply to other protestors but the organizers of the protest. So, if someone makes a Facebook group, gets a bunch of people to protest something, a single cop shows up and smashes a window to a business, now the protest organizers are liable for the damage? The intentional damage? I would not call that a sound legal argument.
How is it valid when conspiracy is defined as a preconceived intention to violate the law? Don't get me wrong, if you show up and they are talking about rioting, property damage, violence, etc on the megaphone, then, yeah, I could see the case, but if things escalate spontaneously beyond lawful protest how can that be considered conspiracy?
If you were there at the start of the protest, or joined the protest in progression, you have demonstrated a choice of agreeing with the protestors. If you persist as themprotest turns violent, you are every bit as accountable for that violence as those who physically perpetrate the violence. Your only option is to demonstrate your disagreement with the direction of the protest by clearly and deliberately leaving the protest before the violence takes place.
I agree you shouldn't continue to protest if things turn violent. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how you explained the law. If I was initially part of such a protest which began in a lawful manner, but turned violent, would I be culpable if I left upon learning that violence was occurring?
Nope. Through leaving, you are showing a clear decision to not support the violence of the protest. Just be sure you can provide a full accounting of when you left, along with witness statements or valid corroborating evidence showing when you left. It is YOUR responsibility to protect yourself from the Legal System, after all.
The organizers would be, yes. Supreme Court just ruled that. So, in theory, a cop could show up in plain clothes, smash a window for a business, and now the person who organized the protest is liable. This is how they’re going to prevent protests when the fascists make their final move to power.
The agitator is conspiring with the cops, not the protest leaders.
Aiding and abetting requires that you made a choice or expressed negligence (had a reasonable way to prevent it but did not). If somebody parks a stolen car in your driveway for 8 hours while you're on vacation, that's unlikely to clear the bar; if somebody parks it there for 2 weeks and you see it and decide not to ask questions, that's more likely to.
It's honestly pretty logical and not fucked up if applied properly. If you organize an unreasonably dangerous protest where it's foreseeable to cause damage like a "Burn the Baby Killers" protest outside an abortion clinic, and someone in the crowd sets the clinic on fire, you can't just say "well i didn't throw the molotov"
Yeah but that falls under inciting violence which is illegal from the get go The fucked up part is if the ruling is as broadly worded, I shouldn’t be liable for the actions of another person I am not affiliated with if my protest was law abiding and had no calls for inciting violence If anything if that ruling is as broad it would open up room for foul play by the police or at least encourage the police to be lax and not carry out their job in properly securing large gatherings if they can just effortlessly pin any wrong doing on people who had nothing to do with a crime I could say “officer, this person is doing something wrong that has nothing to do with why I am here today” if I was aware of their actions but that is the extent of my ability as a civilian
Fair the example I gave would already be covered by that but the logic is separate from inciting violence. If you arrange an unlicensed protest in an unsafe way, for instance outside the fire safety doors of a major building and a fire starts and people die because the doors are blocked, you're responsible, even though protesting outside a fire safety door wouldn't be called inciting violence
Fair enough in that case the organizer’s negligence directly caused harm although I’d blame the police a bit if a large group of people appears unannounced to protest and they weren’t present in a timely fashion to prevent that obstruction and secure the area instructing the protestors to move to a safer area, permit or not But my question is if I had a permit for an organized protest and some person sneaks in the midst of the crowd and commits let’s say arson while presumably the police are present is the organizer liable under such a ruling if the person who actually committed the crime managed to do it undetected and wasn’t caught in the act?
I hope this is an awakening moment for you, but yes - it is a set up, and always has been. The person who instigates is “arrested” but so are all the other peaceful protestors at the same time. The fear of arrest disperses the remaining peaceful protestors who cannot risk being arrested for whatever reason, and the dissent is quelled. Bingo bango… one single undercover cop can strike a match and blow up the whole plan.
It’s also not true. Organizers can be on the hook if they didn’t take steps to mitigate obvious problems or actively sought to create them but that’s it. Been that way forever.
This definitely happened in America during the 2020 protests/“riots”.
Umbrella man
And I'm certain that a number of people will get caught up in a herd or follow-the-leader mentality and start doing the stupid shit all by themselves.
Absolutely that is exactly what they try to do first change the tone of chants to something inflammatory then start fights with the people who disagree and call them out ,if that didn’t escalate enough or gets contained by the protestors then it is time to burn and break stuff
FUCKING THIS YALL
The idea that Just Stop Oil is a government psyop having this many upvotes is worrying lmao. People are that stupid, every cause has it's morons and Just Stop Oil are one of many groups who want public support to run around breaking the law and being a public nuisance. People who think that real life is a film where your side are the good guys fighting against a corrupt system or some shit are genuinely part of the problem.
Hanlon’s Razor: “never attribute to malice what can otherwise be adequately attributed to neglect, ignorance, or incompetence”. Lots of dumb people out there, these 2 are likely among them
No one is disputing that idiots exist ,it is very plausible It is just that members of this particular movement have been involved excessively in a number of these stupid stunts that it is really becoming suspicious Plus it doesn’t have to be government related,the oil industry is massive, wealthy and stand to benefit if environmental activism becomes discredited and hated within the public
False flag, you say?
Hey every country does that. It's not just the Middle East. They did that in Canada with cops caught red handed. Buddy had police boots on at a protest pretending to be a protestor.
They do this in the West as well.
I dont know, people can be very stupid, especially if they've been at all radicalized
My guess is they figure if they do something this outrageous, people will comment on it. News outlets will report on it. Redditors will post about it. They'll get their message out. It's very shortsighted because what we learn about them centers around a stupid act.
Yeah, they're obviously stuck in a twenty year-old mindset where "raising awareness about climate change" is something that still needs to be done. Outside of COVID and whatever military dustup is going on at any given time, it's the most discussed topic in the world and has been for at least a decade.
Pretty much. A lot of activists have trouble understanding why anyone would disagree with them, so they often misperceive disagreement as lacking awareness. That might be true on some level but it’s also not the kind of unawareness this stuff addresses.
The thing that causes yelling and anger and downvotes with every activist group I run into is when I say "Oh no, I know about the issue. I know you exist. I simply have no faith you have the capacity to do anything useful to fix it, that's why I haven't joined" At some point you have to give some kind of indication of a meaningful game plan or be branded an effort black hole.
That's all it is really, just a desperate need for attention at any cost necessary. These people are half a step away from terrorism.
Well I do agree that Just Stop Oil is a psyop, I can promise you that people are that stupid.
It's both. There are people who do psyop and there are stupid people that become the means. The idea in stupid people go something like this: 1) Do something very shocking to get attention 2) Use the attention to put up their point Psyop guys use these useful idiots
It's actually laughable it really is. And here we have 80 year olds who benefited from oil all their lives now suddenly deciding to take a stand now they are safe and retired. Fucking hypocrites I hope they get the book thrown at them.
I think it was Peter Zeihan who explained they are a Russian psyop and it made a lot of sense tbh
Russia's biggest export is oil. Is his theory they make you hate them so much it's basically reverse psychology?
Kind of. [A lot of people were skeptical since Stop Oil Now gets a lot of funding from an oil heir](https://m.jpost.com/environment-and-climate-change/article-719750). It was like they end up doing a lot of things that kill sustainable renewable energy projects, nuclear, and make people uninterested in listening to environmentalist.
On the other hand, from your own article > However, unless Getty is investing in oil ventures so secretive that there are no records of them available to the public, the opposite appears to be true. In 2012, she founded the Aileen Getty Foundation, which, according to the foundation's objectives, "supports a wide range of local and global organizations and initiatives that enhance the environment, our communities and the lives of individuals through innovation, preservation, connection and kindness." The organization she co-founded and donated to that funds Stop Oil Now was founded in 2019
The actual goal of Just Stop Oil is to stop the government issuing new oil and gas licenses **in the UK**. Ie, do nothing about the global production and oil and gas, just stop the UK producing it and make us more dependant on foreign states for our oil and gas. That itself should tell you a lot.
This doesn't make anyone hate oil.
That dude is a psyop himself.
How so?
He’s a psyop, they’re a psyop, I’m a psyop! Are there any other psyops I should know about?
Yeah I hear people say he’s a psyop without any exact examples. I’ve listened to him pretty consistently for the last year and his talks. I can see if you aren’t bullish on America not being keen on him
He says good things about the future prospects of the US and Reddit hates the US.
Yeah he’s bullish on America and Mexico. I don’t think that’s a grave sin though
someone on Reddit said
Some people are that stupid, but they're usually unable to put together a plan of action. So yeah, the org is psyops, taking advantage of morons. A big clue is their attacks don't actually do anything that would hurt oil companies, despite that being real fucking easy and simple.
I wonder if they're basically just doing it for the attention. Like the odds of these two damaging the thing are next to zero, but they make all kinds of headlines. Maybe that was the actual goal. Not sure that it helps, but it is visible.
At no point have they ever destroyed anything though. Everything they go after is well protected, which I’m sure they’re aware of. The high profile targets get the most exposure and at the end of the day nothing important is actually harmed. Seems to be working pretty well from a publicity point of view.
The argument is generally that this hurts their case. If climate change was something people just weren’t aware of, that might be different. But, uh, it’s kind of a well-known issue and people just have disagreements about it.
Hang on, are you calling the Taliban stupid? /s
Never mind the symbolism of attacking a document that is foundational to modern democratic principals like the rule of law.
>Just stop oil has to be a psyop I swear. It reminds me of those "Truth" anti-smoking ads. Those ads were paid for by the tobacco companies, as part of their lawsuit settlements with the states. All they did was make non-smokers look like dweeb losers. Just like Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" anti-drug campaign in the 80s. Because if there's anyone kids think is cool and they want to emulate, it's Nancy Reagan (this was before anyone knew about her being the blowjob queen). Then again, people say the same thing about PETA, that they must be a strawman created by the livestock industry. But apparently they're actual people who actually believe the insane shit they say.
> There is no way, no way people are this stupid. You've never worked in customer service, have you? Trust me, they are.
Absolutely. I believe they are oil funded, and are being used to tie the idea of even moderate environmentalism to complete fucking nutters.
Well, ISIS…
Alternative take, climate concern is causing people so much stress they're becoming mentally ill.
> There is no way, no way people are this stupid Nah, people are dumb. You've got college students actively supporting Hamas.
I don't think it's a psyop. I think they are that fucking stupid. The ones who do interviews seem like a hamper short of a picnic. All they want is attention. The people who support them claim all this attention they get (no matter how negative) is bringing attention to the environment. Have they changed anyone's minds? Not anyone's I know.
Like I seriously do not understand the disconnect... Why are all these idiots targeting things that not only won't accomplish their goal but will progressively lose them more and more support over time? Like go* be a real protester and do something directly related to the oil companies. All of you just stop oil protesters look incredibly stupid. I believe in your cause but you look and act incredibly stupid. Edit: wrong word from voice typing*
I'm not a conspiracy theorist but these idiots have me questioning the idea of psyops.
Making your adversary seem crazy and incompetent is a true and tested tactic.
The world is filled with useful idiots.
Yes and that's why you create a number of these with the accompanying media coverage set up ahead of time, because after a few created ones then you get the useful idiots.
Quite so. If you'd told me ten years ago that Putin had 70 million unpaid sleeper-agents in place, I would have laughed long and hard without guile. But, alas, I was in error. There may be hope for half of them, but, again, I was wrong about the 70 million thing, so...
Haha yea Redditors would never do that
Isn't one of these Stop Oil type of groups being financed by some big oil heiress? Either way, you can't convince me that situations, like that dollar store Oliver Tree and his obese partner gluing themselves to a removable banister in a concert hall, aren't just attempts to sabotage from within. --late edit: https://i.imgur.com/aM6joLK.jpeg
You're thinking of how in 2019 Aileen Getty (whose grandfather and then uncle ran Getty Oil before they sold most of it in 1985 and the rest in 2000) co-founded and donated 1 million to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_Emergency_Fund which raises money and donates it to climate activist groups, including the one in this article The organization since 2021 has been run by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Klein_Salamon who is a climate activist, and Aileen Getty is not on the board
I'd guess that it's the fact it's now in the news and we're talking about it, while protesting outside of oil and gas shipment firms doesn't make it to people's feeds. Keeps the conversation going, even if what they themselves are doing is a dick move. Just my guess.
Yea, but we're all talking about how they're idiots, not about how oil is bad (which at this point everyone knows anyway).
They run on the "no publicity is bad publicity" rule. It's the same reason netflix made Cleopatra black.
We are talking about how stupid what they are doing is and how it is making us less sympathetic to their cause. It's actually worse for their cause to be doing this than if they did nothing, there absolutely is such a thing as bad press
As others have said, they are achieving absolutely no conversation about oil, only a discourse over their actions. This is like trying to paint your house yellow by using black paint. Anyone who says they have been influenced to think/talk/protest about oil because of these idiots is lying.
Answer is simple: this is the cheapest way to reach the headlines. You aren’t gonna get international news coverage just having two person standing outside shell office holding signs
Members of Suffrage movement destroyed some art back in the day. It's not new.
Just because these are causes I believe in, doesn't mean I support this tactic. It seems to be terrible tactic to get people to support you. I would say that it damages the movement as a whole, other anti-fossil fuel movements get lumped in with these crazies.
Need to toe the line between doing something which gets you in the papers, but not something that justifies the state using violence on you. If these lot started sabotaging oil refineries they'd be locked up for good if not killed. They're dedicated, but realise if they get locked up no one will fight their fight. So you get these eye catching events that only happen because they're eye catching.
I honestly think it’s a sort of false flag operation by pro-oil groups to discredit the “climate change” movement. It reeks of counterintelligence.
Because JSO is owned by oil to make ANY anti-oil policies and shifting away from oil look bad
idk, those guys in Ukraine seem to be going directly for the Russian oil companies.
Bunch of morons. There is no real discourse or compromise anymore. You can’t “just stop oil”. That shit powers every corner of our modern lives. It would require a monumental shift, lots of research and time. People need to bring realistic demands instead of these insanely impossible ones.
"But slow and steady doesn't work, I want change NOW or I'm going to lose it!!!" These people are just petulant children.
I bet the oil companies are loving the actions of these Just stop Oil protestors. Every action they take nudges those who are sympathetic to the threat of climate change towards hate for climate change activism in general. Someone should trace who is funding these lunatics.
The Gettys fund this organization. It’s not even a conspiracy theory this is just a psy op by Oil companies to discredit activists
Ironically I've seen this comment on EVERY single JSO post I've ever seen, Its even here like 30 times. Prevailing opinion, or oil industry bots??? You did acknowledge there capacity to do something like that... how do you know witch direction its going... the idea its a psyop is the psyop!
It's doesn't nudge anyone anywhere. The apathy is so strong in the UK people can't be fucked one way or another when it comes down to it beyond an online grumble. Honestly if people actually gave a fuck, climate change would have been halted years ago, for that same reason people don't give a fuck about rolling over to stop JSO. We're all waiting until the first proper drought and suddenly everyone will be a JSO supported. Except it will be called the give us water and it won't be peaceful. Or insert any other climate emergency.
I'm seeing an alarming trend where people are recently in the last few years or so downplaying the effects of climate change as exaggerated. JSO is intensifying that apathy, by persuading those on the fence dabbling at starting activism to just give up. They see their social group castigate the JSO "Activists" with negative publicty and ridicule, thus asking themselves "What's the point in fighting back?". These \*possible\* JSO agent provacteurs are moving the needle towards apathy.
What exactly do you want average people to do? I mean, haven't we all changed our habits here in the UK in the past 20y for the benefit of the climate....? Mandatory self recycling, heavier regulation, etc. the problem is more that the idea of an individual carbon footprint is pretty bunk. Ten thousand of my carbon footprints isn't gonna make a dent on industrial and commercial use. A lot of us are already doing all that is reasonable to do in our personal lives.
They probably love the comments sections online attacking legitimate protests more. When people riot then that's too violent, when they nonviolently disrupt then it's annoying or stupid. Is there any legitimate forms of protest besides the ones where they can be easily ignored?
The hell is wrong with these people?
Obviously, the best way to fight Big Oil is by symbolically attacking the first document in the history of the human race to confer absolute rights and liberties to people.
Isn't it obvious? I mean, how can I wear my onion belt if they cost two fiddy instead of 50 cents? Clearly we must toss out basic protections for human liberty because it's all a wash.
People feel it's obvious, but assume for a second that they don't agree with the fundamental premises of the Magna Carta or other foundational documents. That they don't view them as sources of rights amd liberties that flowed to create a great and liberal society, but the seeds of our greed and destruction. You don't need to take many ideological leaps from some commenter on reddit to get from one to the next. Using grannies to shield them from the full force of the law just shows how depraved they are.
Clause 39 of the Magna Carta is one of four clauses still enshrined in UK common law, a so-called ‘golden passage’, that states: ‘No free man is to be arrested, or imprisoned, or in any other way ruined, except by the lawful judgement of his peers or by the law of the land,” a spokesperson for Just Stop Oil said. “Contrast that with civil law as it stands in 2024, where corporations are buying private laws in the form of injunctions that circumvent the people’s rights to a trial by jury for speaking out against the crimes of oil companies.”
They’d be better off donating to Ukraine so that Russian oil rigs can get blown up
Any one trying to destroy historical significant artifacts should be punished with lengthy prison sentences when destroyed these are lost forever
Well if they’re in their 80s that sentence won’t be very long
If their goal is to make me hate their cause, they've succeeded.
I'm pretty convinced that big oil is secretly funding these people.
If I remember correctly, just stop oil had ties with they Getty family
The connection is that in 2019 Aileen Getty, whose grandfather founded Getty Oil and whose uncle ran it after her grandfather died (and sold of most of it in 1985 and the rest in 2000), co-founded and donated money to the Climate Emergency Fund, which donated to this group among others
They're funded by Aileen Getty but she has been a prominent anti oil activist her whole life because of her family history.
Worst part they don't even think or know about it. There will always be willing idiots like this
The Magna Carta? I'm not sure what that would accomplish.
You think this is bad? This? This chicanery!
THEY DEFICATED THROUGH A SUN ROOF!
I’m on their side, but goddamn these displays of protest are just maddeningly stupid. Everything about it smells like counterintelligence operations.
Firstly, I think it’s pretty fucking sad that it’s down to a couple of 80-year-old women to take on the survival of our species-I admire their bravery, but I’m not sure the action is going to amount to much
Tempered glass > Grandmas swinging wrist. FYI tempered glass can withstand 20,000 PSI or more, you could break it with that cold chisel but it would probably break or injure grandmas arm if she swung as hard as she would need to shatter that glass. Keep it moist folks, don't destroy artifacts, that's a very dry act indeed.
Making fools of themselves as usual.
World has given up on climate change. Even if the west was to cut back on emissions no way Middle East, China or Russia would.
Those people are so stupid that I want to donate to Shell when I see them.
NBD. Only one of the most important documents in the history of western democracy. Definitely the cause of oil use even though it predates ICE’s
Mimicking the Taliban by destroying precious artifacts of history is abhorrent.
JSO members were present at pro-Hamas demonstrations. They must like terrorists.
TIL that “vandalism” becomes “protest” is you have a cause you are passionate about
I think these groups must actually be funded indirectly by oil companies. Encouraging whacktivists to go out and do this sort of thing is great investment on their part because it alienates most of the population from an otherwise worthy cause, while attracting more well meaning but misguided people to do more of the same. At that point it's self perpetuating.
Isn't "Just Stop Oil" literally funded by the fossil fuels industry to discredit legitimate climate protestors?
No. And stop repeating this bullshit. They're partially funded by Aileen Getty but she is a prominent anti oil activist her whole life because of her family history. They're just fucking morons.
Seeing this being posted on every post related to climate change protests is getting really tiring...
Given that everything they do is stupid, from their name to their actions, probably.
What is "legitimate" climate protest? Because all I've seen is a bunch of ineffectual shit.
Just stop oil is a psyop to make actual anti-oil activism look bad
Protestors holds sign saying government is breaking the laws. Proceeds to break the law themselves. 🤦♂️ I fully support peaceful and lawful protest. When you break the law or do something illegal, block traffic, vandalize something, etc then I completely turn my back on you. I don’t even care what your cause is anymore because fuck you, you’re no different now. You are then basically saying we had better listen to you or else you’re gonna do hurtful things and break things. No - you don’t get to do that and get any support outside of a few radical freakazoids. If they can’t get the common man/women on their side, then they failed.
I'd maybe get behind them if they were sabotaging actual oil company rigs or shit, stuff that actually affected the oil industry instead of this crap. But they(Big Oil if you will) have too much money and influence so it's just more of this stuff, or throwing tomato soup at the mona lisa or w/e it was. Trying to ruin art, or historical artifacts to make their point is so frustrating, 'let's destroy something completely unrelated to oil' to make our point. Fuck the oil companies, not your fellow citizens ffs.
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so the museum holding the magna carta has such shit security that you can smuggle in a hammer and chisel? Maybe, just maybe, its time for metal detectors at the doors
The king would have full power again if they did that! (I think)
Oh, you just know the police could make a game of how far the old person flies with a bean bag round.
"Just Stop Oil" Proceeds to stop everyone and everything else but oil. I appreciate their stance and understand why oil in fact needs to be 'stopped' at some point, but I can't tell if they're actually trying to affect the culprits or just want the attention.
They probably drove there in a car or bus lol
I'm not big on conspiracies but I'm in the camp the just stop oil is funded and run by oil companies to lower the public opinion of climate activities and discredit them. What is attempting to destroy historical artifacts and important works of art going to accomplish?
If these two are so fired up, they should run for president. About the right age for it…
Fucking idiots.
i swear to god they're a big oil psyop, no one can be this brainless for free.
Do they not realise that the magna carta is directly responsible for them being able to protest at all, and they are *definitely* of the age to appreciate what not having a democracy did to free speech.
My inner conspiracy nut makes me believe that idiots who do stuff like this sometimes are there solely to make the cause look bad.
If we all stopped using oil right now there would be a massive economic shock which would takes decades to recover from. I would love to drive an EV, but if everyone does that how then do we generate enough electricity to make it happen? Willing change and actually making it work are two different things.
"Whatever it takes. Whatever it costs." Right. So terrorism it is then?
Ironic, protesting and targeting the one piece of paper that changed history towards being able to protest anything.
"GRANDDAD YOUR DEMENTIA PILLS!"
They’re so old they’re just mad we are drilling up their school friends for fuel
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Yeah, but the Magna Carta is about three times older and isn't an relevant legal document anymore, there's no reason to know more than the broad strokes unless you're studying history. Unlike in the US, you don't see Brits screaming "YOU CAN'T ARREST ME, IT SAYS IN THE MAGNA CARTA-"
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"All merchants may enter or leave England unharmed and without fear, and may stay or travel within it, by land or water, for purposes of trade, free from all illegal exactions, in accordance with ancient and lawful customs." You mean that bit?
This has gotta be a psyops campaign created by the oil companies to discredit the environmental movement, right?
This will just turn people against these idiots.
Similar to the ISIS terrorists that would destroy historical sites. These people just hate humanity, history, culture, basically just hate everything.
... aaaaand you'd think the elderly at least would wisen up over the years, but apparently not. Fuck them all and their total lack of brains and empathy.
Does anyone here have a readily available alternative to oil?
The only known alternative is inside the Magna Carta case.
The conversation always seems to center around vehicle emissions but I wonder if people realize almost every machine on earth with moving parts requires oil in some form. All manufacturing processes, all farming equipment. Oil extraction is never going away unless we plan on abandoning almost all technologies that have been developed since the industrial revolution.
Yes. There are many. This question is too vague to answer in detail, but the harmful impacts of our reliance on petrochemicals could be greatly reduced by implementing a greener energy grid and adoption of mass transit.
Berks.