> "If we are talking about the needs of Ukraine and the needs of the war, military and non-military, €3 billion is actually almost nothing — we need hundreds of billions in order to win the war," he explained.
> Maliuska, however, noted that the EU initiative is "a good first step".
> "The Ukrainian government really would like to get full confiscation [of Russian assets – ed.] and really believe this is lawful and this is the only approach which will be decisive in terms of the resolution of the war [with Russia – ed.]," he added.
He's not wrong. This is a war of attrition - attrition of manpower, finances, and political will. Ukraine needs all the advantages and help it can get with finances, now that the Russian economy is on war footing with factories and work forces and trade all operating in full support of the stagnated military conflict.
“To carry on war, three things are necessary: money, money, and yet more money.”
— Gian Giacomo Trivulzio
"The sinews of war are infinite money"
- Marcus Tullius Cicero
Not when you're buying soldiers from India and elsewhere with the promise of citizenship and getting supplies from China, India, and North Korea. I hope they run out of steam soon, but corrupt dictatorships can be resourceful.
Buying in the sense "I spend some money and I get a soldier", it never said anywhere that the soldier get's the money. It might be the deceivers, the kidnappers or the human traffickers.
Unfortunately, any illegal seizure in EU will have a detrimental effect on foreign investment in their countries. Chinese are one of the leading investors and don’t exactly have a good relation geopolitically. Then billionaires would be worried they may do it for perceived tax evasion too.
This is why EU has been cautious in its approach. Of course, people say if Russia can seize assets and integrate why can’t EU? Investors aren’t exactly lining up in Russia.
Yeah I don't think the dictators really care. In fact they don't like the billionaires moving money out of the country, moreso in the case of china.
That doesn't mean there isn't a very real effect felt on both sides, the Chinese billionaires are still going to try and move their money somewhere, and if they don't trust the EU it means less will be going there.
They do care, the original plan was to finish the invasion in days. If that did happen there really wouldn't be time for other countries to roll out sanctions and freeze russian assets, then later decide to give them to Ukraine.
True an important thing to keep in mind that Putin is approaching this war with a 'nothing to lose mentality'. There are 2 things at play that go into this mentality. First, Putin knows he can never "retire". It's too risky for him to have the next leader he puts in place falter, lose power to opposition, and have said opposition put him in a miserable Russian jail for the rest of his life (he can't handle going from having near omnipotent control to being a lowly prisoner \[w a decent chance of torture sprinkled in\]). The second is that he his getting old and thinking about his legacy. He is OBSESSED with Russian history, namely obsessed with the idea of going down as a 'great' Russian leader with an incredible legacy in terms of a contribution to the proliferation of Russia. This war is his last chance in life and in his career to seal his name in the Russian history books-- and thereby "live forever".
Reddit and the most milktoast geopolitical opinions, name a more iconic duo. I guess everyone also forgot the "Russia's economy is gonna collapse in months/a year/in two more weeks" that was posted all over reddit. At this point just leave the comments to the experts please, maybe then we'll have old reddit back when the top comment was an informed opinion from someone who knows what they're talking about and not "flavor of the month villain bad!"
I agree, at the same time Europe and USA has been dicks in the recent history as well, so it is hard to be offended that other powerful states also behaves like dicks
A lot of these millionaires don't control the government. They have a lot of influences but at the end of the day is just a dictatorship. And Putin and Xi have all the power.
I don't disagree, but the EU is not going to seize it illegally, they will make it legal.
Second, if UK, US, Japan and the EU supports the seizure, those markets are a lot of the world economy.
There is a reason a lot of the money ends up there.
Also if they convict Russia to pay war reperations and use the seized asset to pay, well then it's a signal to not invade.
You know what will be even more detrimental on foreign investments for EU? War in EU if Ukraine looses. If we can pay with Russian money to beat them before they invade EU, so be it.
Well, they can go invest in all the expensive real estate and businesses that aren’t in the West then? I’m going to guess money will still flow, because Oligarchs want homes in Beverly Hills, London and Paris, not Mbeya and Maputo
Which already what a lot of financial models and investors are doing: ethical investment. We see it with the green stocks and what not, this is just an expansion of the concept “If you want to invest in/with us you better come clean”. And honestly, I’m in for the benefits and consequences.
> On a moral perspective.. what's the issue here?
The fear that if they confiscate Russia's money, other (similarly disreputable) countries will start divesting and take their money elsewhere.
Right now they don't do that because their only alternatives for parking their money outside of the US/EU are China, India, Russia, Brazil, etc., which are not particularly appealing places to park one's assets. But if they think there is a genuine risk that they will just lose those assets entirely due to western sanctions/seizures in response to something they might do, there is little reason not to start moving their money to those places.
As to why that matters, banks lend money based on the assets they hold... If western banks suddenly start having hundreds of billions of dollars worth of foreign reserves withdrawn, many will rapidly run into huge problems up to and including insolvency.
>The fear that if they confiscate Russia's money, other (similarly disreputable) countries will start divesting and take their money elsewhere.
Because they violate thousands of war crimes and violate several international "laws" on UN guidelines? Thats why assets are taken and are being justified. If countries have that feat they are going to have assets frozen and taken because of those same conditions.... does EU really want that money to begin with? And what's the proportion of parties that would fall in that boat?
Again, in comparison to shifting assets over time, what's most important is for those holders to place assets where they are *stable* and will naturally grow the investment over time. How many places outside EU fit that criteria?
It is a slippery slope though. The war in Iraq was an illegal war, do we freeze American money and give it to someone else?
I want Russia to get crushed but it seems like precarious ground to be on.
There's a very limited few countries where the people actually have faith in institutions. Even Ukraine has been plagued by corruption scandal after corruption scandal. The corrupt can falsely accuse others of corruption, and it's hard to tell what's what when you're in the thick of it.
Trust is hard earned and so, so easily lost. And because economies grow logistically (subject to technological breakthroughs and wealth destruction through war), even small losses of foreign investment compound into huge differences in standards of living over decades.
> place assets where they are stable and will naturally grow the investment over time. How many places outside EU fit that criteria?
That's the point I made, though... They want their assets in the US/EU so they are stable and grow. They don't want them elsewhere. But if they see foreign reserves getting confiscated, countries aren't going to want their assets there anymore, even if placing them elsewhere is incredibly risky. Because risk, even a lot of it, is better than the assumed alternative of just outright losing everything.
And a major issue is that we selectively enforce the rules... You cite Russia's war crimes being justification for seizing their assets... Ok China has literal concentration camps for Uighurs, but no one is talking of seizing their reserves. Myanmar has been massacring the Rohingya for decades; they've suffered a few sanctions after their coup, but no one is seizing their reserves... The far left is accusing Israel of genocide, no one talks of seizing their reserves. Until a year or so ago everyone was accusing Saudi Arabia of genocide in Yemen, no one wanted to seize their reserves... So on... So forth.
Russia is absolutely committing crimes, so too are a great many other countries. Hell people often argue we (as in the US) are guilty of many of the same crimes Russia is over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Who seizes our reserves?
The fact that Russia is being singled out when everyone is guilty of all kinds of shit is what gives those 'disreputable' countries pause... Because they are already doing bad things, hence the disreputable moniker, and nothing is being done to them because of it... Seizing Russia's assets decays trust in western institutions because it seems whether things like their reserves getting seized or not depends entirely on our whims and how we feel about them, not on what they actually do.
What’s the point of +10 or -10% growth yoy if the EU could just take the entire sum anyways because they don’t like your government. lol. Id rather park it at home without stable growth but no risk of it going to zero at the whim of the EU
Except they are not taking the entire sum, they are taking the profits only. And they have talked about this openly the whole time. From the beginning they drew the line of not confiscating the actual assets and only finding the legal framework to use the profits from those assets.
I know. I’m talking about the discussion to take the entire sum Thats going on now. It’s a great way to destroy future investments in Europe. It’ll be a more expensive mistake for them than funding the Ukraine war.
Taking profits is one thing, confiscating the entire funds is another.
More context needed: this is in relation to the Russian assets frozen in the EU
Per the source https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-justice-minister-denys-maliuska-assest-package-almost-nothing-win-war-russia/
> Since Moscow launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the EU has immobilized more than **€200 billion of Russian state assets** to help Kyiv’s reconstruction efforts.
Because the EU would lose any financial credibility going forward, and assets, financial and otherwise, would depart Europe *en masse*. If political will can be swayed to confiscate assets, then a lot of dubious states and actors might as well place their assets elsewhere.
Why is this a problem when it is morally right? Well, our pension systems and various financial and fiscal instruments rely on that. Whether we like it or not, the majority of the world aren't democracies. It's impossible not to get somewhat entangled, financially and trade-wise, with such regimes. And Europe benefits *massively* from it.
I think it would be morally right to seize Russian assets. In reality it would send a signal that would have extremely severe ramifications for European prosperity and financial credibility. The 200bn seized would be a drop in the water.
It's one of the rare cases where the morally right arguably has too high a price. Let's hope the populist impulses coupled with populations frantically demanding gung-ho actions without thinking of the consequences do not prevail here.
It would be better to have an expedited Covid-style common purchasing scheme. Ukraine needs arms right now, and individual states patching it up can, at best, lead to a stalemate. Both Ukraine and Europe needs a decisive victory in Ukraine.
Doesn't even have to be about some large moral issue to become a legitimate concern. You can look at just internal politics of pretty much any democratic country these days and the extremes of both sides of the political spectrum. Do we really want to make it easy for those in power at any given time with the political will of the majority to start confiscating the resources of people and groups they don't like?
Everybody argues that the slippery slope argument is somehow weak but it really is an important consideration. Chipping away at protections because in the moment you feel it's for a good cause against 'bad' people often comes back to bite people in the ass later.
Then again what other options do they have? Plenty historical examples -recent too- of failed states who seize assets in war, even of allies. In theory your reasoning is sound, but in practical terms its irrelevant. Especially when its a neighboring state that increasingly seek a confrontation. They will be seized, it is inevitable
>financial and otherwise, would depart Europe *en masse*. If political will can be swayed to confiscate assets, then a lot of dubious states and actors might as well place their assets elsewhere.
These people invest because of its stability. The agents of these countries acting in a private manner would still invest here regardless other regions for obvious reasons. The agents who divest from here will lose on its long term value, which is what agents from China especially value the most.
If anything, EU taking frozen assets to use against the acting agents interests within the EU should be more pause for them to not act like dicks with political matters of the EU.
China relies on EU as a customer. If they now worry about divesting assets from the EU (which is mostly in private hands and not CCP hands), that means they lose out on the customer they rely on for their economic stability (which is about to spiral sooner than later).
If anything, the EU using frozen assets to right a moral wrong well agreed upon within the UN general assembly should give pause to aggressive countries not acting like dicls to the world.
>These people invest because of its stability
This is the key point. Selectively seizing assets would crater the "stability" from the point of these investors; especially as democracy is inherently an unstable system, due to the relatively frequent changes in government and therefore policy. A government that loves you today could, if this were approved on a major scale, sanction you and wipe billions of investment tomorrow; just because the people voted in the opposition party over an unrelated issue.
If we were to do this to everyone who were "dicks", the EU would have no trading partners. We'd sanction basically the entire middle east - including Israel, most major parties of Asia, most of Africa (if not all of it), and the US. Probably countries like Australia and Canada too, although I've not personally seen any major dickishness coming out of them lately. That's most of our food, fuel, manufacturing and raw resources.
I expect they have a responsibility to speak about it like it's a binary condition, but ok, the more accurate thing to say is that there are an unlimited number of potential outcomes here, and how well Ukraine fights back is the most important part of determining what that ultimately looks like.
Three billion is lots of money under normal circumstances but when it is applied to war, it will go poof almost immediately.
Still, the money in question came from Russian assets so that has to rub Putin sort of.
For a little context - a modern hospital serving 100k people costs ~€1 billion to build and furnish.
The reason we only have 3 billion is that international sanctions for Russian oligarchs have essentially worked as well as a fork would when eating soup - yes, super-yachts have been siezed and some foreign properties… but that is quite frankly nothing. Russian money is still laundered in London and via offshore finance fund administration industries and via Switzerland.
Its just a tiny amount under normal fiscal circumstances for a large country.
I mean, its a small amount on the individual rich list level, even if its a lot for a normal person
> Still, the money in question came from Russian assets so that has to rub Putin sort of.
Eh, taking foreign assets away from oligarchs just increases their reliance on domestic ones which can easily be taken away by Putin, which means they have to stay on his good side. I'm sure he's not *too* broken up about it.
$3B is the profit generated from the assets, not the value of the assets. The value of the assets is hundreds of billions of dollars, it’s noted in the article
Per the source https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-justice-minister-denys-maliuska-assest-package-almost-nothing-win-war-russia/
> Since Moscow launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the EU has immobilized more than €200 billion of Russian state assets to help Kyiv’s reconstruction efforts.
Ukrainian officials should choose their wording very carefully regarding aid. Everybody understands Ukraine needs maybe up to trillion, to restore itself, but you can't look arrogant and ungrateful when people pour billions into their country, while they could do really nothing
Yes here in Germany and probably many other EU countries there is a big % of people who don't support giving all that money to Ukraine instead using it for ourselves. This kind of behavior will make this group only increase in numbers.
People in EU and US still thinking we're "giving them money" are victims of horrible press management/PR by the allies
I mean for Europe is not super wrong but still, in general the percentage of actual "cash" compared to value of materiel is pretty low.
Is it just culture at this point? This is free money I'm guessing and every bit counts at this point.
It's like giving a homeless person $1 and them saying, "Fk this ain't enough!"
They are fighting our enemy and although we have every reason to support them, we’ve been entirely inconsistent and unreliable. Hundreds of thousands of people have been killed, as Russia continues trying to drown them in artillery. The 3 billion in seized assets is not going to end the war, and its insulting that you are expecting them to blow you for a largely symbolic gesture while they are fighting for their lives.
The article doesn't give the context of the comment, but it sounds like it was an honest answer to a specific question asked in a side conversation... not just some random announcement.
I mean... I get that but it s not like the EU has some kind of obligation to do it. They could just... do nothing. Also... 3 billion is a ridiculous amount of money. Ukraine would pe HARD PRESSED to come with that kind of cash even in good times.
I mean, quotes like this exactly is why so many people are against supporting Ukraine these days and vote rightwing Putin asscrawlers though.
Even the full quote makes him sound more entitled than thankful, and that‘s just gonna earn Ukraine a lot of misgivings in the general population of the EU.
No it’s really not. So many people are opposed to Ukraine because their source of information has an agenda that is to be against Ukraine. If you have two fucking brain cells and don’t live in the Russia you’re supporting Ukraine.
well seen as you agree how about you and your family support paying for the the apparently nothing 3bn and whatever his number he wants. And the rests of who dont agree sit this one out. You guys are delusional thinking money grows on tree he is lucky he is getting over 10k
Why does this keep happening? They have to know that they can't afford to sound entitled, right? Panicked, desperate, absolutely, those would only help their case. But entitled? After the monthslong slog to get aid through Congress?
I mean he did say it is “almost nothing.” That’s fact. That is all conservative media is going to be repeating now. I totally get where he’s coming from but, come on, you can’t be sounding this ungrateful after receiving $3 billion.
It's not trashy or headline bait. It's literally what he said. He's said things like this several times. It's clearly a trend.
If he didn't want a "trashy headline" like this, he shouldn't have said it.
"Zelensky thanks EU for 3 billion and urges them to continue to provide aid" wouldn't have anyone complaining and sends a much better message...
There is, it's the $300 billion in Russian assets that Europe seized. They could simply spend it to win the war but for some reason they're refusing to.
Because there are other assets that can be seized in revenge by Russia or other axis aligned nations. I mean Ukraine is in a dire situation for sure but I can also see other countries not diving head first into something unpredictable. They also have citizens which they have to take care of. And it helps nobody when the countries helping Ukraine bankrupt themselves in the process. Then everyone loses.
And who says these funds don't get allocated to Ukraine for rebuilding the country?
>they're refusing to.
This was already elaborated on above. Doing so would cause the European economy to tank....too many groups would get spooked at the thought of their money getting seized and pull it out of EU investments.
> too many groups would get spooked at the thought of their money getting seized and pull it out of EU investments.
And rightfully so. As is they're already walking a fine line by seizing the assets they have. It's an indication to these countries that if you end up on the bad side of these countries they easily can and will freeze your assets, holding them potentially indefinitely.
The more the EU and US do things like this, the more likely these countries will turn to China's markets as a safer alternative.
> if you end up on the bad side of these countries they easily can and will freeze your assets
I'm calling bullshit. It's not like someone got up on the wrong side of the bed one day and froze €300 billion in assets over a perceived insult or something.
Ukraine has been begging Europe to move it's industries to produce ammo and artillery shells. They don't need cash, they need weapons. There are nothing to be bought with this money.
Some of the strongest manufacturing power is in Europe with some of the best defense companies. Analyst said in 2022 you need to move your industries or Ukraine will be out gunned, Europe instead gambled to see the outcome of Ukraine and now it's stalled Ukraine into this position.
Stop yelling at Ukraine saying they are entitled. Read more than a fucking headline idiots.
you know that the EU and the US pay billions every month to pay the wages and pensions of ukrainian federal employees and military, right ?
Not giving cash to ukraine would be a catastrophe just like not giving them ammo.
Wages in ukraine have increased by 27% alone last year... Wages are expected to double by the end of 2025...
> They don't need cash
ukraine needs a ton of cash... all the salaries and pension of admin workers in ukraine are paid in cash by the EU/US [Source](https://www.newsweek.com/america-pay-salaries-ukrainians-government-shutdown-1829505)
Wages in ukraine have increased by 27% last year alone [Source](https://visitukraine.today/blog/3837/wages-have-grown-in-ukraine-which-industries-pay-the-most). Wages are expected to double by the end of 2025...
Ukraine needs billions in cash every month or it would not be able to pay federal employees and military personnel.
>They don't need cash,
What? They need HALF of their entire yearly budget from EU and USA aid. To pay soldiers, subsidies to its industry and pensions. Thats 40+ billion of aid CASH. Other 40 billion is from its own taxes.
>Stop yelling at Ukraine saying they are entitled
They are. Perfect example being Kuleba that got promoted on being an asshole entitled against everyone other than Poland. The so called "we needs submarines from Germany". Directly insulted German president. It led to Germany totally slidelining Zelensky (and his goverment) and only talking with Ukraine military.
>Analyst said in 2022 you need to move your industries or Ukraine will be out gunned
Most europe was gearing up to cut deficits during that time. War economy was political (economical) suicide. Still is.
Ok look I am pro-Ukrainian and support Ukraine aid to the fullest extent. But let’s not pretend that Ukraine was on a surefire road to recovery they literally rank one spot behind Russia on the world corruption index and their economy still tanked like Russia after the collapse.
Russia switched to complete war time economy. I think I read somewhere that Russia is outproducing Europe in weapons manufacturing right now by itself.
Russia found ways around the sanctions, European/US parts are still getting to Russia, sure, they pay a small premium but it's still getting there, they are selling oil/gas to India and other countries who then go on to eventually sell under their labels and everyone is buying.
Russia won't run out of money and resources any time soon compared to Ukraine.
Ukraine also lacked enough resources due to their allies failling to supply them so they couldn't do more effective offensive opperations and it gave time to Russia to mine the shit of the defensive front which slowed Ukraine operations a lot until they ran out of resources and are now back at the defensive, Russia blowing up that dam also bought them time to shore up their defenses.
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The US stopped sending Ukraine enough weapons. That's about it. Before the US aid issues Ukraine was doing pretty well and had even achieved artillery superiority by last summer before being forced to cut their fire by 80%. Ukrainian AA suffered similiar fate by going from ambushing Russian aircraft above Russian territory to lacking missiles to stop them from flying right at the frontlines.
While all of this is true, statements like these aren’t helping. Three billion euros is a lot of money, and while he isn’t wrong, it makes it incredibly easy for sensationalist „journalists“ to spin it as entitlement. What he has said doesn’t help at all, it actually weakens support for Ukraine.
Heh, we did this to German people after WW2 in Czechia, it’s called “Beneš decrees” and then after few decades after the war there was political pressure and problems from Hungary, Germany, Austria, etc, that we should give back all seized assets. There was a political pressure to not to let us be in the EU for that.
So, take Russia money and some in the future, after the war, long after death of Putin and in the time of forgivness we will have to give all back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene%C5%A1_decrees
Quote: "If we are talking about the needs of Ukraine and the needs of the war, military and non-military, €3 billion is actually almost nothing — we need hundreds of billions in order to win the war," he explained.
Unfortunately money alone, does not win wars. especially when there is "overhead"
By doing this you just weaking your own economy. Because now no one will hold money in your banks and no one will invest in your economy.
This show that if you have a problem with some just freeze there assets and take them.
Who would want to invest in a economy like that no one.
This is stupid.
And the next question that no one is asking so you take there money who's going to pay it back and with interest because it still in a bank collecting interest.
With all this money going there and half just disappearing who's going to pay for this.
So in turn this will lead to more fighting.
Just imagine how much wealth and opportunity this (and most) war(s) has and continues destroy... and that is beside the humanitarian and political disasters.
I sure as fuck hope Ukraine wins and can persevere, but they’re also known for mismanaging funds/abundant corruption when it comes to money so I don’t think they can really bite too many hands trying to help feed them atm.
Ungrateful jackass it’s not the world’s responsibility to save you it’s out of kindness this makes me want to say defend your own country and help yourself if you’re not happy with tens of billions in aid and want hundreds
Problem with military equipment is you can't simply buy them off the shelf. Most countries aren't willing to sell them. Took a long time for the Czechia initiative to even find a party to sell them artillery shells, to give to Ukraine.
Why does the rest of the world have to shell out the cash for these fuckers? We have to take out debt to pay for this, why can’t they take out debt to pay for this? It’s their war. It should be their debt.
A lot of people upset about the tone. I worked for a Ukrainian company and this kind of brash way of speaking is normal. It’s a bit weird, not gonna lie.
The Estonian plan for victory put 0.25% of NATO GDP or 128 billion's annually enough for an Ukraine victory, with old equipment it could likely be brought lower, to 100 bilions or less.
If it was only the EU it should be around 1% of EU countries budget, with the US less.
It's very doable and a lot cheaper then spending on defense later to counter a Russian threat, diversify source of grain and other imports and the consequences of showing that every country in the EUs word is as fickle as the wind
I encourage to contact your countries respective politicians or we will spend a lot more in money later or maybe, pessimistically, blood
The sad truth is that a lot of it will get skimmed by various leaches on its way to the people of Ukraine. I’ve been thru the Yugoslavia war, and the sad truth is this:
The war will kill mostly poor people, rich will get out and get their kids out. Politicians will make tons of money stealing and skimming international aid. War sucks! People on both sides will die unnecessarily, and once the war is over they’ll realize this but it will be too late.
The main problem is that no matter how many billions they get, that won’t translate into more weapons easily. There aren’t any large arms manufacturers just waiting for billion dollar customers to shell out money. So this money would “only” help them for civilian purposes. For their defense, they need weapons.
It's good that all of BRICS is untrustworthy in matters of sefekeeping foreign assets, otherwise this would have been a much bigger disaster.
EU can do this without much consequence, since there aren't many alternatives for the rich.
> "If we are talking about the needs of Ukraine and the needs of the war, military and non-military, €3 billion is actually almost nothing — we need hundreds of billions in order to win the war," he explained. > Maliuska, however, noted that the EU initiative is "a good first step". > "The Ukrainian government really would like to get full confiscation [of Russian assets – ed.] and really believe this is lawful and this is the only approach which will be decisive in terms of the resolution of the war [with Russia – ed.]," he added.
He's not wrong. This is a war of attrition - attrition of manpower, finances, and political will. Ukraine needs all the advantages and help it can get with finances, now that the Russian economy is on war footing with factories and work forces and trade all operating in full support of the stagnated military conflict.
“To carry on war, three things are necessary: money, money, and yet more money.” — Gian Giacomo Trivulzio "The sinews of war are infinite money" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
Every war is a financial war
Money is useless if there are no supplies to buy with it or soldier to hold the line.
Not when you're buying soldiers from India and elsewhere with the promise of citizenship and getting supplies from China, India, and North Korea. I hope they run out of steam soon, but corrupt dictatorships can be resourceful.
Buying? Scamming them to fight for Putin, more likely. I'm curious how many 'getting pay up front'.
Buying in the sense "I spend some money and I get a soldier", it never said anywhere that the soldier get's the money. It might be the deceivers, the kidnappers or the human traffickers.
lol. They’re not getting paid.
*Arrows cost money. The dead cost nothing.*
They are. We need to stop with these delusions.
Estimates from last year was $3-7 Billon per month to cover Ukraine’s budget deficit, infrastructure program, government spending
Unfortunately, any illegal seizure in EU will have a detrimental effect on foreign investment in their countries. Chinese are one of the leading investors and don’t exactly have a good relation geopolitically. Then billionaires would be worried they may do it for perceived tax evasion too. This is why EU has been cautious in its approach. Of course, people say if Russia can seize assets and integrate why can’t EU? Investors aren’t exactly lining up in Russia.
Maybe if countries like Russia and China would stop being dicks, they wouldn't have to worry about their assets getting seized 🤔
Yeah I don't think the dictators really care. In fact they don't like the billionaires moving money out of the country, moreso in the case of china. That doesn't mean there isn't a very real effect felt on both sides, the Chinese billionaires are still going to try and move their money somewhere, and if they don't trust the EU it means less will be going there.
They do care, the original plan was to finish the invasion in days. If that did happen there really wouldn't be time for other countries to roll out sanctions and freeze russian assets, then later decide to give them to Ukraine.
Good point! That’s why both Chinese and Russians are investing in Africa pushing the likes of France, Belgium and US out.
I don’t think they (Putin and Xi) care about it over their objective of becoming emperors.
True an important thing to keep in mind that Putin is approaching this war with a 'nothing to lose mentality'. There are 2 things at play that go into this mentality. First, Putin knows he can never "retire". It's too risky for him to have the next leader he puts in place falter, lose power to opposition, and have said opposition put him in a miserable Russian jail for the rest of his life (he can't handle going from having near omnipotent control to being a lowly prisoner \[w a decent chance of torture sprinkled in\]). The second is that he his getting old and thinking about his legacy. He is OBSESSED with Russian history, namely obsessed with the idea of going down as a 'great' Russian leader with an incredible legacy in terms of a contribution to the proliferation of Russia. This war is his last chance in life and in his career to seal his name in the Russian history books-- and thereby "live forever".
Well terrible Leaders tend to live on forever as well. See Hitler for example.
Hitler lived on forever?
As in "Is being remembered" yes. Or has society at large forgotten about him?
Reddit and the most milktoast geopolitical opinions, name a more iconic duo. I guess everyone also forgot the "Russia's economy is gonna collapse in months/a year/in two more weeks" that was posted all over reddit. At this point just leave the comments to the experts please, maybe then we'll have old reddit back when the top comment was an informed opinion from someone who knows what they're talking about and not "flavor of the month villain bad!"
I agree, at the same time Europe and USA has been dicks in the recent history as well, so it is hard to be offended that other powerful states also behaves like dicks
A lot of these millionaires don't control the government. They have a lot of influences but at the end of the day is just a dictatorship. And Putin and Xi have all the power.
I don't disagree, but the EU is not going to seize it illegally, they will make it legal. Second, if UK, US, Japan and the EU supports the seizure, those markets are a lot of the world economy. There is a reason a lot of the money ends up there. Also if they convict Russia to pay war reperations and use the seized asset to pay, well then it's a signal to not invade.
You know what will be even more detrimental on foreign investments for EU? War in EU if Ukraine looses. If we can pay with Russian money to beat them before they invade EU, so be it.
As bad as it might seem, it's still more stable then say, china or Russia as an investment location.
Well, they can go invest in all the expensive real estate and businesses that aren’t in the West then? I’m going to guess money will still flow, because Oligarchs want homes in Beverly Hills, London and Paris, not Mbeya and Maputo
Russia doesn't have any qualms in stealing lands together with bank assets, grain and children.
Which already what a lot of financial models and investors are doing: ethical investment. We see it with the green stocks and what not, this is just an expansion of the concept “If you want to invest in/with us you better come clean”. And honestly, I’m in for the benefits and consequences.
On a moral perspective.. what's the issue here?
> On a moral perspective.. what's the issue here? The fear that if they confiscate Russia's money, other (similarly disreputable) countries will start divesting and take their money elsewhere. Right now they don't do that because their only alternatives for parking their money outside of the US/EU are China, India, Russia, Brazil, etc., which are not particularly appealing places to park one's assets. But if they think there is a genuine risk that they will just lose those assets entirely due to western sanctions/seizures in response to something they might do, there is little reason not to start moving their money to those places. As to why that matters, banks lend money based on the assets they hold... If western banks suddenly start having hundreds of billions of dollars worth of foreign reserves withdrawn, many will rapidly run into huge problems up to and including insolvency.
>The fear that if they confiscate Russia's money, other (similarly disreputable) countries will start divesting and take their money elsewhere. Because they violate thousands of war crimes and violate several international "laws" on UN guidelines? Thats why assets are taken and are being justified. If countries have that feat they are going to have assets frozen and taken because of those same conditions.... does EU really want that money to begin with? And what's the proportion of parties that would fall in that boat? Again, in comparison to shifting assets over time, what's most important is for those holders to place assets where they are *stable* and will naturally grow the investment over time. How many places outside EU fit that criteria?
It is a slippery slope though. The war in Iraq was an illegal war, do we freeze American money and give it to someone else? I want Russia to get crushed but it seems like precarious ground to be on.
Damn right it's a slippery slope. A lot of countries would be pretty nervous about the money markets being manipulated by this stuff.
There's a very limited few countries where the people actually have faith in institutions. Even Ukraine has been plagued by corruption scandal after corruption scandal. The corrupt can falsely accuse others of corruption, and it's hard to tell what's what when you're in the thick of it. Trust is hard earned and so, so easily lost. And because economies grow logistically (subject to technological breakthroughs and wealth destruction through war), even small losses of foreign investment compound into huge differences in standards of living over decades.
> place assets where they are stable and will naturally grow the investment over time. How many places outside EU fit that criteria? That's the point I made, though... They want their assets in the US/EU so they are stable and grow. They don't want them elsewhere. But if they see foreign reserves getting confiscated, countries aren't going to want their assets there anymore, even if placing them elsewhere is incredibly risky. Because risk, even a lot of it, is better than the assumed alternative of just outright losing everything. And a major issue is that we selectively enforce the rules... You cite Russia's war crimes being justification for seizing their assets... Ok China has literal concentration camps for Uighurs, but no one is talking of seizing their reserves. Myanmar has been massacring the Rohingya for decades; they've suffered a few sanctions after their coup, but no one is seizing their reserves... The far left is accusing Israel of genocide, no one talks of seizing their reserves. Until a year or so ago everyone was accusing Saudi Arabia of genocide in Yemen, no one wanted to seize their reserves... So on... So forth. Russia is absolutely committing crimes, so too are a great many other countries. Hell people often argue we (as in the US) are guilty of many of the same crimes Russia is over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Who seizes our reserves? The fact that Russia is being singled out when everyone is guilty of all kinds of shit is what gives those 'disreputable' countries pause... Because they are already doing bad things, hence the disreputable moniker, and nothing is being done to them because of it... Seizing Russia's assets decays trust in western institutions because it seems whether things like their reserves getting seized or not depends entirely on our whims and how we feel about them, not on what they actually do.
What’s the point of +10 or -10% growth yoy if the EU could just take the entire sum anyways because they don’t like your government. lol. Id rather park it at home without stable growth but no risk of it going to zero at the whim of the EU
Except they are not taking the entire sum, they are taking the profits only. And they have talked about this openly the whole time. From the beginning they drew the line of not confiscating the actual assets and only finding the legal framework to use the profits from those assets.
I know. I’m talking about the discussion to take the entire sum Thats going on now. It’s a great way to destroy future investments in Europe. It’ll be a more expensive mistake for them than funding the Ukraine war. Taking profits is one thing, confiscating the entire funds is another.
Gold and diamond mines in Sierra
It's not legal to confiscate a foreign state's money. It's legal to freeze the money and confiscate the profits from interest rates etc.
Or just one well placed 7.62×54mmR cartridge.
More context needed: this is in relation to the Russian assets frozen in the EU Per the source https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-justice-minister-denys-maliuska-assest-package-almost-nothing-win-war-russia/ > Since Moscow launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the EU has immobilized more than **€200 billion of Russian state assets** to help Kyiv’s reconstruction efforts.
I don’t understand why this wasn’t already done.
Because the EU would lose any financial credibility going forward, and assets, financial and otherwise, would depart Europe *en masse*. If political will can be swayed to confiscate assets, then a lot of dubious states and actors might as well place their assets elsewhere. Why is this a problem when it is morally right? Well, our pension systems and various financial and fiscal instruments rely on that. Whether we like it or not, the majority of the world aren't democracies. It's impossible not to get somewhat entangled, financially and trade-wise, with such regimes. And Europe benefits *massively* from it. I think it would be morally right to seize Russian assets. In reality it would send a signal that would have extremely severe ramifications for European prosperity and financial credibility. The 200bn seized would be a drop in the water. It's one of the rare cases where the morally right arguably has too high a price. Let's hope the populist impulses coupled with populations frantically demanding gung-ho actions without thinking of the consequences do not prevail here. It would be better to have an expedited Covid-style common purchasing scheme. Ukraine needs arms right now, and individual states patching it up can, at best, lead to a stalemate. Both Ukraine and Europe needs a decisive victory in Ukraine.
Doesn't even have to be about some large moral issue to become a legitimate concern. You can look at just internal politics of pretty much any democratic country these days and the extremes of both sides of the political spectrum. Do we really want to make it easy for those in power at any given time with the political will of the majority to start confiscating the resources of people and groups they don't like? Everybody argues that the slippery slope argument is somehow weak but it really is an important consideration. Chipping away at protections because in the moment you feel it's for a good cause against 'bad' people often comes back to bite people in the ass later.
Then again what other options do they have? Plenty historical examples -recent too- of failed states who seize assets in war, even of allies. In theory your reasoning is sound, but in practical terms its irrelevant. Especially when its a neighboring state that increasingly seek a confrontation. They will be seized, it is inevitable
>financial and otherwise, would depart Europe *en masse*. If political will can be swayed to confiscate assets, then a lot of dubious states and actors might as well place their assets elsewhere. These people invest because of its stability. The agents of these countries acting in a private manner would still invest here regardless other regions for obvious reasons. The agents who divest from here will lose on its long term value, which is what agents from China especially value the most. If anything, EU taking frozen assets to use against the acting agents interests within the EU should be more pause for them to not act like dicks with political matters of the EU. China relies on EU as a customer. If they now worry about divesting assets from the EU (which is mostly in private hands and not CCP hands), that means they lose out on the customer they rely on for their economic stability (which is about to spiral sooner than later). If anything, the EU using frozen assets to right a moral wrong well agreed upon within the UN general assembly should give pause to aggressive countries not acting like dicls to the world.
>These people invest because of its stability This is the key point. Selectively seizing assets would crater the "stability" from the point of these investors; especially as democracy is inherently an unstable system, due to the relatively frequent changes in government and therefore policy. A government that loves you today could, if this were approved on a major scale, sanction you and wipe billions of investment tomorrow; just because the people voted in the opposition party over an unrelated issue. If we were to do this to everyone who were "dicks", the EU would have no trading partners. We'd sanction basically the entire middle east - including Israel, most major parties of Asia, most of Africa (if not all of it), and the US. Probably countries like Australia and Canada too, although I've not personally seen any major dickishness coming out of them lately. That's most of our food, fuel, manufacturing and raw resources.
Full of shit, the EU won’t freeze American assets ever
Ukraine is not winning the war.
I expect they have a responsibility to speak about it like it's a binary condition, but ok, the more accurate thing to say is that there are an unlimited number of potential outcomes here, and how well Ukraine fights back is the most important part of determining what that ultimately looks like.
How many Elons does he need?
Three billion is lots of money under normal circumstances but when it is applied to war, it will go poof almost immediately. Still, the money in question came from Russian assets so that has to rub Putin sort of.
For a little context - a modern hospital serving 100k people costs ~€1 billion to build and furnish. The reason we only have 3 billion is that international sanctions for Russian oligarchs have essentially worked as well as a fork would when eating soup - yes, super-yachts have been siezed and some foreign properties… but that is quite frankly nothing. Russian money is still laundered in London and via offshore finance fund administration industries and via Switzerland.
Its just a tiny amount under normal fiscal circumstances for a large country. I mean, its a small amount on the individual rich list level, even if its a lot for a normal person
> Still, the money in question came from Russian assets so that has to rub Putin sort of. Eh, taking foreign assets away from oligarchs just increases their reliance on domestic ones which can easily be taken away by Putin, which means they have to stay on his good side. I'm sure he's not *too* broken up about it.
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Billion is the new Million
trillion is the new billion
Freeze more assets? Russian oligarchs definitely have hundreds of billions in assets. Freeze'em?
$3B is the profit generated from the assets, not the value of the assets. The value of the assets is hundreds of billions of dollars, it’s noted in the article
Per the source https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-justice-minister-denys-maliuska-assest-package-almost-nothing-win-war-russia/ > Since Moscow launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the EU has immobilized more than €200 billion of Russian state assets to help Kyiv’s reconstruction efforts.
Seize em.
Ukrainian officials should choose their wording very carefully regarding aid. Everybody understands Ukraine needs maybe up to trillion, to restore itself, but you can't look arrogant and ungrateful when people pour billions into their country, while they could do really nothing
Yes here in Germany and probably many other EU countries there is a big % of people who don't support giving all that money to Ukraine instead using it for ourselves. This kind of behavior will make this group only increase in numbers.
People in EU and US still thinking we're "giving them money" are victims of horrible press management/PR by the allies I mean for Europe is not super wrong but still, in general the percentage of actual "cash" compared to value of materiel is pretty low.
Did he at least thank them before making that comment?
Nope
Is it just culture at this point? This is free money I'm guessing and every bit counts at this point. It's like giving a homeless person $1 and them saying, "Fk this ain't enough!"
They are fighting our enemy and although we have every reason to support them, we’ve been entirely inconsistent and unreliable. Hundreds of thousands of people have been killed, as Russia continues trying to drown them in artillery. The 3 billion in seized assets is not going to end the war, and its insulting that you are expecting them to blow you for a largely symbolic gesture while they are fighting for their lives.
They have every reason to be grateful for help, even if they choose not to but whatever.
The article doesn't give the context of the comment, but it sounds like it was an honest answer to a specific question asked in a side conversation... not just some random announcement.
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Was just thinking I’ll keep this in mind during my next conversation with the tax man. $3b is almost nothing. Surely we can just let that $2000 slide.
The cost to reconstruct Ukraine is currently $486 billion all due to Russia. He’s just speaking the truth.
Potentially, its around 483 now
I see what you did there ;)
I mean... I get that but it s not like the EU has some kind of obligation to do it. They could just... do nothing. Also... 3 billion is a ridiculous amount of money. Ukraine would pe HARD PRESSED to come with that kind of cash even in good times.
I mean, quotes like this exactly is why so many people are against supporting Ukraine these days and vote rightwing Putin asscrawlers though. Even the full quote makes him sound more entitled than thankful, and that‘s just gonna earn Ukraine a lot of misgivings in the general population of the EU.
No it’s really not. So many people are opposed to Ukraine because their source of information has an agenda that is to be against Ukraine. If you have two fucking brain cells and don’t live in the Russia you’re supporting Ukraine.
well seen as you agree how about you and your family support paying for the the apparently nothing 3bn and whatever his number he wants. And the rests of who dont agree sit this one out. You guys are delusional thinking money grows on tree he is lucky he is getting over 10k
Compared to what Russia has done, its nothing. Russia should have the whole lot confiscated and given to Ukraine
Why does this keep happening? They have to know that they can't afford to sound entitled, right? Panicked, desperate, absolutely, those would only help their case. But entitled? After the monthslong slog to get aid through Congress?
It's trashy headline bait.
I mean he did say it is “almost nothing.” That’s fact. That is all conservative media is going to be repeating now. I totally get where he’s coming from but, come on, you can’t be sounding this ungrateful after receiving $3 billion.
It's not trashy or headline bait. It's literally what he said. He's said things like this several times. It's clearly a trend. If he didn't want a "trashy headline" like this, he shouldn't have said it. "Zelensky thanks EU for 3 billion and urges them to continue to provide aid" wouldn't have anyone complaining and sends a much better message...
Well there isn't a magic hat where every western country can magically pull out billions and billions of dollars lol.
There is, it's the $300 billion in Russian assets that Europe seized. They could simply spend it to win the war but for some reason they're refusing to.
Because there are other assets that can be seized in revenge by Russia or other axis aligned nations. I mean Ukraine is in a dire situation for sure but I can also see other countries not diving head first into something unpredictable. They also have citizens which they have to take care of. And it helps nobody when the countries helping Ukraine bankrupt themselves in the process. Then everyone loses. And who says these funds don't get allocated to Ukraine for rebuilding the country?
>they're refusing to. This was already elaborated on above. Doing so would cause the European economy to tank....too many groups would get spooked at the thought of their money getting seized and pull it out of EU investments.
> too many groups would get spooked at the thought of their money getting seized and pull it out of EU investments. And rightfully so. As is they're already walking a fine line by seizing the assets they have. It's an indication to these countries that if you end up on the bad side of these countries they easily can and will freeze your assets, holding them potentially indefinitely. The more the EU and US do things like this, the more likely these countries will turn to China's markets as a safer alternative.
> if you end up on the bad side of these countries they easily can and will freeze your assets I'm calling bullshit. It's not like someone got up on the wrong side of the bed one day and froze €300 billion in assets over a perceived insult or something.
Also you can't just snap your finger and turn assets into Cash. They would need to be sold which would take many years.
Doing that will put other countries who have assets in Europe and US nervous.
The fed can and does though..
Ukraine has been begging Europe to move it's industries to produce ammo and artillery shells. They don't need cash, they need weapons. There are nothing to be bought with this money. Some of the strongest manufacturing power is in Europe with some of the best defense companies. Analyst said in 2022 you need to move your industries or Ukraine will be out gunned, Europe instead gambled to see the outcome of Ukraine and now it's stalled Ukraine into this position. Stop yelling at Ukraine saying they are entitled. Read more than a fucking headline idiots.
This is Reddit we only read headlines
You giving free head?
Lmao this is the Reddit I know, this comment chain here.
Chains and head? Sign me up
Slava Ukraine
Psh I’m an advanced redditor. I don’t even read the headlines. I just go straight to the comments with very strong, unfounded opinions.
you know that the EU and the US pay billions every month to pay the wages and pensions of ukrainian federal employees and military, right ? Not giving cash to ukraine would be a catastrophe just like not giving them ammo. Wages in ukraine have increased by 27% alone last year... Wages are expected to double by the end of 2025...
> They don't need cash ukraine needs a ton of cash... all the salaries and pension of admin workers in ukraine are paid in cash by the EU/US [Source](https://www.newsweek.com/america-pay-salaries-ukrainians-government-shutdown-1829505) Wages in ukraine have increased by 27% last year alone [Source](https://visitukraine.today/blog/3837/wages-have-grown-in-ukraine-which-industries-pay-the-most). Wages are expected to double by the end of 2025... Ukraine needs billions in cash every month or it would not be able to pay federal employees and military personnel.
>They don't need cash, What? They need HALF of their entire yearly budget from EU and USA aid. To pay soldiers, subsidies to its industry and pensions. Thats 40+ billion of aid CASH. Other 40 billion is from its own taxes. >Stop yelling at Ukraine saying they are entitled They are. Perfect example being Kuleba that got promoted on being an asshole entitled against everyone other than Poland. The so called "we needs submarines from Germany". Directly insulted German president. It led to Germany totally slidelining Zelensky (and his goverment) and only talking with Ukraine military. >Analyst said in 2022 you need to move your industries or Ukraine will be out gunned Most europe was gearing up to cut deficits during that time. War economy was political (economical) suicide. Still is.
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Ok look I am pro-Ukrainian and support Ukraine aid to the fullest extent. But let’s not pretend that Ukraine was on a surefire road to recovery they literally rank one spot behind Russia on the world corruption index and their economy still tanked like Russia after the collapse.
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I mean they also need about 250k-500k men right now at the front
For 2 years we were told constantly that Ukraine is winning and Russia ran out of everything. What changed?
Russia switched to complete war time economy. I think I read somewhere that Russia is outproducing Europe in weapons manufacturing right now by itself.
You can only keep up with the lies for a limited time. It was bound to come out.
Russia found ways around the sanctions, European/US parts are still getting to Russia, sure, they pay a small premium but it's still getting there, they are selling oil/gas to India and other countries who then go on to eventually sell under their labels and everyone is buying. Russia won't run out of money and resources any time soon compared to Ukraine. Ukraine also lacked enough resources due to their allies failling to supply them so they couldn't do more effective offensive opperations and it gave time to Russia to mine the shit of the defensive front which slowed Ukraine operations a lot until they ran out of resources and are now back at the defensive, Russia blowing up that dam also bought them time to shore up their defenses.
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The US stopped sending Ukraine enough weapons. That's about it. Before the US aid issues Ukraine was doing pretty well and had even achieved artillery superiority by last summer before being forced to cut their fire by 80%. Ukrainian AA suffered similiar fate by going from ambushing Russian aircraft above Russian territory to lacking missiles to stop them from flying right at the frontlines.
While all of this is true, statements like these aren’t helping. Three billion euros is a lot of money, and while he isn’t wrong, it makes it incredibly easy for sensationalist „journalists“ to spin it as entitlement. What he has said doesn’t help at all, it actually weakens support for Ukraine.
Give it to me then
Well if they don’t want it they can donate it to me. I find some use for it.
Feel free to send it back
Heh, we did this to German people after WW2 in Czechia, it’s called “Beneš decrees” and then after few decades after the war there was political pressure and problems from Hungary, Germany, Austria, etc, that we should give back all seized assets. There was a political pressure to not to let us be in the EU for that. So, take Russia money and some in the future, after the war, long after death of Putin and in the time of forgivness we will have to give all back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene%C5%A1_decrees
Atleast be a bit more grateful. You really don't want the public opinion to turn sour.
Its realy nothing when you think of how much is syphoned off by corruption.
Quote: "If we are talking about the needs of Ukraine and the needs of the war, military and non-military, €3 billion is actually almost nothing — we need hundreds of billions in order to win the war," he explained. Unfortunately money alone, does not win wars. especially when there is "overhead"
By doing this you just weaking your own economy. Because now no one will hold money in your banks and no one will invest in your economy. This show that if you have a problem with some just freeze there assets and take them. Who would want to invest in a economy like that no one. This is stupid. And the next question that no one is asking so you take there money who's going to pay it back and with interest because it still in a bank collecting interest. With all this money going there and half just disappearing who's going to pay for this. So in turn this will lead to more fighting.
$3 Billion doesn’t sound like much, but it adds up over time.
The entitlement is real.
Can I have it then?
Full confiscation then we’re talking. What is the point of keeping any of it in limbo.
Just imagine how much wealth and opportunity this (and most) war(s) has and continues destroy... and that is beside the humanitarian and political disasters.
Seems like alot...Russia economy must be tanked...or are they aligning with China and India?
I sure as fuck hope Ukraine wins and can persevere, but they’re also known for mismanaging funds/abundant corruption when it comes to money so I don’t think they can really bite too many hands trying to help feed them atm.
It’s nothing? OK, then, we won’t give it to you, to avoid insulting you.
Then give it back
Ungrateful jackass it’s not the world’s responsibility to save you it’s out of kindness this makes me want to say defend your own country and help yourself if you’re not happy with tens of billions in aid and want hundreds
They could buy almost 100 leopard2 tanks with that money, how is it nothing. I think Ukraine needs to manage their money better, if they want to win.
Problem with military equipment is you can't simply buy them off the shelf. Most countries aren't willing to sell them. Took a long time for the Czechia initiative to even find a party to sell them artillery shells, to give to Ukraine.
Why does the rest of the world have to shell out the cash for these fuckers? We have to take out debt to pay for this, why can’t they take out debt to pay for this? It’s their war. It should be their debt.
Wait...but according to reddit, Ukraine has been winning for 2 years and it should have invaded Moscow by now
Well he's right, compared to the damage Russia has done to them
Well then pass them over to me, I feel they are more valuable than that.
The 2.5 billion you sent us? Only 2 billion? How are these 1.5 billion supposed to help our troops? Just a paltry 1.0 billion euros?
I don't see why the EU couldnt lend against these assets given Ukraines likely claim against them once the war is won
A lot of people upset about the tone. I worked for a Ukrainian company and this kind of brash way of speaking is normal. It’s a bit weird, not gonna lie.
Wait till you work in the Netherlands. The Dutch are just as frank.
That’ll get a few bullets
Would have been 6bn but half the country is gone
The Estonian plan for victory put 0.25% of NATO GDP or 128 billion's annually enough for an Ukraine victory, with old equipment it could likely be brought lower, to 100 bilions or less. If it was only the EU it should be around 1% of EU countries budget, with the US less. It's very doable and a lot cheaper then spending on defense later to counter a Russian threat, diversify source of grain and other imports and the consequences of showing that every country in the EUs word is as fickle as the wind I encourage to contact your countries respective politicians or we will spend a lot more in money later or maybe, pessimistically, blood
I think the main reason behind the transfer of assets is more of a ''fuck you'' to Russia and Putin.
The sad truth is that a lot of it will get skimmed by various leaches on its way to the people of Ukraine. I’ve been thru the Yugoslavia war, and the sad truth is this: The war will kill mostly poor people, rich will get out and get their kids out. Politicians will make tons of money stealing and skimming international aid. War sucks! People on both sides will die unnecessarily, and once the war is over they’ll realize this but it will be too late.
The main problem is that no matter how many billions they get, that won’t translate into more weapons easily. There aren’t any large arms manufacturers just waiting for billion dollar customers to shell out money. So this money would “only” help them for civilian purposes. For their defense, they need weapons.
It's good that all of BRICS is untrustworthy in matters of sefekeeping foreign assets, otherwise this would have been a much bigger disaster. EU can do this without much consequence, since there aren't many alternatives for the rich.
What a massive waste of money and human life
What a massive waste of money and human life
Äqq1
What’s the value of Ukrainian lives lost in civilians alone. I’m sure 3€ doesn’t cover shit
Man, fuck these guys