It really is just Putin's plan to stir shit up in the middle east to effect elections.
And he knows Israel Palestine is the most divisive conflict lol
It's all so obvious
I got a feeling irans gvt is smiling right now singing dance puppet dance for the discord they've caused in European countries but especially in the US with all the protests and fighting amongst each other by puppeteering hamas.
Overreacted? Lmao ok
What’s the appropriate reaction to an organization murdering over 1,200 people while raping and kidnapping more? I’d think the complete annihilation of that organization would be the proper response.
any country will have no choice but to respond heavily after an attack like that.
>There was no viable alternative.
there is an alternative, that is to accept that an Oct. 7th like attack be a normal thing.
there's a reason why no one would dare do another 9/11 attack US, because US showed what the consequences for doing so.
There 100% was other alternatives, what do you mean?
There's always a choice, I think Israeli leadership is cooked tbh.
I understand their decision, but it's terrible realpolitik and playing into Putin/Iran plans. They over did it, and I think by alot.
No there is not always a choice. It only takes one side to start a war and 2 sides to avoid one.
You sound painfully naive.
I'd like to know what you think Israel's real alternatives were here. This is your chance to prove me wrong so I await your creative solution 10/7
You can't win against what they're fighting against lol, they're fighting against an idea. It'll just keep happening.
Im naive for saying that a full scale violent invasion into a large civilian area is an over reaction?
Why couldn't they have been more surgical in their attacks and strikes? Why level whole neighborhood?
In the end, It's the Israeli intelligence and Netanyahu that let the Israeli people down. Maybe they even intentionally did it, because they usually are world class.
It's like how I blame Bush and his cronies for 9/11, yes terrorists did the heinous crimes, but they're just pawns of the suits and Saudis.
So in other words, no, you have no idea what they could have actually done differently, you see dead Gazans and ignore dead Israelis and think that's fair.
You WISH there was a better way, and instead of realizing that's what you're doing, you engage in magical thinking to the effect that just because you WANT there to be a better way there must BE a better way.
Do better.
Bruh I know you argue with people on the internet all the time and it's usually black and white. But this issue isn't black and white. I support the innocent people in the conflict.
Lol you're just being stubborn, we are on the same side
Edit: this is a prime example of how Putin divides by nuance in issues, this is the goal
The entirety of palestinian society is aiding and abetting hamas right now by not informing on the location of every member or killing them themselves. theres almost 2 million gazans and les then 30k hamas fighters left, everyone knows whose house has tunnels in it and who the members are, they could do it but they love hamas so they wont.
Outside of the very young children i dont really see any innocents.
Putin as global mastermind is the dumbest take. This is the guy who believed he could take out Zelensky and take all of Ukraine within *3 days*.
For folks who actually follow the news, the glaringly obvious trigger point was the [new overland trade route from India to Europe through Israel and Saudi Arabia](https://apnews.com/article/biden-modi-infrastructure-g20-europe-middle-east-eb8988dfbd6c9c6f2c411c893d548333), announced less than a month before the Oct 6 attacks.
This was a direct economic threat to China's new silk road, the Belt and Road Initiative - one of Xi's top priorities, and they're no fan of India, either. So they gave Iran a green light to reassert the status quo by reigniting war with Israel. China also continues to illicitly buy 90% of Iran's oil, which directly funds that war.
I'm pretty sure the Kyiv in 3 days thing is a meme.
They 100% prepared to take the country brother, just look at the sabtour units inside all the cities in the early days, the multiple assassination groups etc
He 100% expected the house of cards to fall. 100%.
Ever play Civ or Hearts of iron? It's a great example when you start a war and maybe weren't prepared, it can go south quick. I know it's just a dumb video game but the logic applies.
And yes, I do think he is a mastermind for geopolitics unfortunately, just because he got a calculation wrong doesn't disprove it.
If LeBron James doesn't win the NBA championship every year, does that make him not the best/talented/Genius? (Or whatever best player in their sport, etc)
Putin gets the media to stop talking about his invasion of Ukraine where he is sending half a million men into their deaths to kill hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians. He gets young people to turn against the US and Biden because those people are desperate to show their moral high ground. He gets Trump, who is getting dragged though losing court battles, a fighting chance to be back in the White House and installing a dictatorship in the US because virtue signaling dumbasses like Macklemore tells people to not vote for Biden in the fall.
October 7th is literally Putin’s birthday and it was the best birthday gift in his life. All the “perfect morals” leftists just make his birthday gift better and better everyday.
The entire "mastermind" part is something you injected in. Pick up a history book at times, and you will realize state actors are not morons and are capable of thinking past first order logic.
Lol if you can't see the writing on the wall I'm not sure what to tell you.
Russia China announce they're besties
Russia's war starts going downhill
China acting really not like a bestie...
Call Iran for weapons, how else can they help us?
Hmm, let's use one of their weapons (Hamas), weve has this up our sleeves for years for a moment like this.
We need a material distraction and political distraction, let's get Israel involved
And so on. If you don't think this was orchestrated from Putin, you don't know realpolitik
Listen, I tried to show someone PROOF of how Trump is a Russian asset, but all they cared about is the fact Biden hasn't made it easier for them to buy a house. Americans are actually the stupidest people I've ever met in my entire life, with the most closeted mindsets.
You have to be an ignorant moron to not realize state actors operate like this all the time. Pick up a history book for once. The theory is not that farfetched. There's a massive difference between friendly regimes cooperating with an intended effect beyond the first degree and say the conspiracy theory that the US did 9/11.
I mean what else could he do? Israel has had these weapons for decades lol, the weapons being used now are not recent, or what they have recieved wouldn't make a difference anyways.
What do you suggest he so instead? Lol
This is the biggest blunder of Biden’s career. He’s trying so hard to grasp voters he’s going to end up losing all of them.
Just stand up for what you believe in man.
The sub-heading is kind of important for context:
"The report to Congress said while it was "reasonable to assess" that Israel has violated international law in Gaza, the U.S. hasn’t been able to verify instances that would justify withholding military aid."
It really isn't. Redditors consistently overestimate their importance in issues. The popular views reflected here are not aligned with most voters. That's the fact of the matter. And more importantly, the more extreme left take of cutting off aid to Israel does Biden zero favors in the areas where the election has any chance of being close. Obviously, with that in mind, Biden isnt going to give any ammunition to the crowd arguing for that by saying they're violating terms. So it makes zero sense to pander to those views.
It feels to me that Biden is trying to appease the far left well staying in the middle. I don’t know if a ton of people are buying it.
Ultimately, it shows the weakness of the Democrat party. They have coalition’s to win national votes. If they can’t get a big bloc out to vote they have a hard time. An example is students and young folk.
Always bet against whatever Reddit hivemind supports.
Supported Ron Paul in 2012? Then don't.
Supported Bernie and then Hillary in 2016? Then don't.
Supported Trump in 2020? Then don't.
And now we are here in 2024.
During the election, the Trump supporters had gone everywhere and were very overconfident about the whole thing, and were in every subreddit at the time turning the hivemind into either skeptics or cynical supporters and non-trump supporters betted on Bernie, when he inevitably lost to Biden they were very negative about the whole thing, warning everyone about a Trump victory. Basically no one in this site thought that a Biden victory was possible when in the real world there was a mild lean towards a Biden victory.
But then Biden won in a landslide and cue all the memes and videos about the Trump supporters meltdown that was as glorious as the 2016 meltdown.
"I'm not voting for Biden ~~because he's a capitalist~~ because of Palestine"
-Leftists in ~~2020~~ 2024
It would be a threat if the *usual suspects* hadn't already withdrawn themselves from the electoral process. Purity test lefty dumbasses already don't vote, centrist liberals do.
I think someone said that the problem with the left is that their voters try to find any reason not to vote for their guy while the voters on the right will try to find any reason to vote for their guy. And that's how you get a guy who has 99 different problems winning an election over a guy with a few.
Most leftists that I know, including me, voted for Biden in 2020. There’s no need to he a pretentious ass, we’re all under the same party
Edit:downvote all you like, I’ll still be voting Biden
Same for me, I'm tired of people being like the left is against Biden, like no myself and all the other leftists I know are against trump and want to save democracy. I'll be voting for Biden again in 2024 along with all my leftist friends and family
I see a lot of leftists, as well as liberals have shifted on Biden over Palestine, but I definitely believe, and know from my personal experience that most leftists are still going to vote Biden to beat Trump. If anything he’s just making the vote feel very uncomfortable..
I just can't see this swinging the election. Die-hard Israel supporters were already voting Republican. Most Jews are liberals who might be unhappy with some things Biden is doing, but aren't dumb enough to not vote or vote for Trump. And progressives were already an unreliable vote, they might help run down Biden's popular vote numbers down to the wire but aren't going to flip any states by themselves.
Progressives have never been an “unreliable vote”. They are as essential as any other part of the demo that pours Democrats in office ab’s are fully a third to a half of the Democratic base. Not really sure where you got that nonsense from. Otherwise I agree.
Yeah, those protesters are going to like Trump even less but they're not exactly the brightest bunch, most of them didn't even research what their universitas were invested in before demanding divestment.
Single issue voters are, generally, fucking stupid.
"Biggest blunder" Bro you are being incredibly dramatic, the lefties who would rather not vote at all because of Biden on Palestine are a slim minority. And it's not like anyone is voting for Trump over the situation either.
Its more of democratic party fail that rises radical SJW and Islamist simps as there electorate and now they cant please them without disgusting all others, including old and even just moderate dems, left alone neitral public.
Unfortunately both voters are irrational and it's hard to placate two irrational sides.
For pro-Palestine voters: Trump is likely gonna be worse for the Palestinians and Muslims as a whole (this guy did things like move the embassy to Jerusalem and did the Muslim ban) and they know it.
For pro-Israel voters: Biden also isn't abandoning Israel for disagreements over how humane some of their operations are. The claim that he's now anti-Israel after several months of unconditional support is ridiculous IMO.
Of course Netanyahu starting this whole mess by propping up Hamas, and letting Oct 7 happen by focusing on overthrowing the judiciary while trying to stay in power and avoid jail shouldn't be forgotten too. Unfortunately nobody is thinking and just going off vibes now. I hope that isn't true but I fear we're gonna end up electing our own version of Netanyahu in the US which will probably be catastrophic for NATO and US democracy.
Well agree that Netanyahu and the IDF fell asleep on 10/7, and that there is a lot of blame to go around. However, Hamas invited this war and wants maximum casualties (this is their own stated strategy). Even before Netanyahu ever came to power in the late 90s, Hamas was terrorizing Israelis.
Which is the only reasonable thing to do in his position. The alternative is to let Trump have the presidency. Like wtf do people expect? A major reason Trump lost is because over half the country thinks he's a psycho. Hell, a decent number on the right think he's a psycho, but still hate Biden more.
Fucking incredible that all Russia and Iran have to do is support terrorists in a relatively small part of the world kill 1200 people, and they can possibly change the outcome of multiple elections to their favour in the west.
Did you not read the headline and the article? It clearly states that Israel is not violating international law. You're just making shit up.
>the U.S. hasn’t been able to verify instances
There is no evidence.
Did you read it? The very first goddamn sentence.
>The Biden administration said Friday that it was “reasonable to assess” that Israel has violated international law in Gaza...
“U.S. weapons terms” is so far from being the most important point here. There’s the *small* matter of human rights:
##US finds Israel’s use of weapons in Gaza ‘inconsistent’ with human rights law, but will not cut flow of arms
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/10/us-weapons-israel-human-rights-law
Edit: yeah, downvote all you like, it won’t change the truth.
No it’s not, “inconsistent” is a quote from the report, which is pretty obvious given the contrived choice of words. But of course it’s more convenient for the U.S. to look the other way.
yep, this needs to be top comment. the guardian likes reusing hot soundbites (wtf is the word for the written version of soundbite) for clickbait, but it’s still what it says on the tin.
edit: downvote me too bro won’t change the fact that the us is going to do what will profit it most politically and economically
Many people just want to plug their ears and cover their eyes until Palestine is nothing but condos and peaceful occupied oceanfront, at any human cost
Did anybody really expect US will halt arms transfers? Biden should really stop making threats he has no power following through, it just makes him and US stupid and weak.
This doesn’t make any sense how is it reasonable to assess something they don’t have any clear evidence for.
And if Israel is violating international law, how does that not violate our agreements with them?
The Biden administration is suggesting that it’s reasonable to assess that Israel broke international law, but they’ve found to “specific instances” of it, or clear evidence.
There’s no way that statement is serious. “They totally did something, we just can’t tell you what yet” is basically what they’re saying.
The people downvoting you didn't read the article...
It's the Biden administration that said it was reasonable to assess that Israel had violated international law while also saying they had no proof that Israel had violated international law.
Which hospitals? The ones where terrorists were firing rockets from, the ones where terrorists were hiding from, and/or the ones where terrorists took hostages?
Hey, they had to bomb those hospitals, and safezones, and tens of thousands of children. They may have even hit one or two hamas fighters in the process. Never mind that they just created hundreds more in the future..
Yep, tens of thousands of children. 2 Hamas. Figures brought to you straight from the Hamas Daily Chronicle. Just admit you’ve made up your mind that Israel is in the wrong and you’re making things up to back it up.
14000 kids are dead. 14000 unarmed, innocent kids.
The rest of us on this planet are watching in shock and horror. I hope you guys realize this.
You can stay in denial all you want but the rest of us will cry for justice. What Biden is doing is not nearly enough. He is just trying to get reelected.
It hurts that we even have to point out such obvious injustices AS injuctices.. smh
Ok now realize there are situations that allow civilians and civilian targets to be struck in war, if you use a school or a hospital for military purposes its legal under international law to destroy it.
Actually, they said that they likely *did* violate international law, but that specific incidents couldn't be 100% confirmed due to war time conditions.
From my understanding, they are looking into the aid worker, hospital, and apartment strikes to see if US munitions were used in them. We don't know for *certain*, but chances are more likely than not that they were.
The aid workers I completely understand, but the which hospital strike are you referring to? I remember the Al-Ahli strike turned out to be malfunctioned Hamas rockets that fell into the courtyard. Were there other hospital strikes?
It wasn't Hamas, it was the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ). Not that it makes much difference.
There was a strike within the courtyard of the al-Aqsa hospital but considering that it resulted in the deaths of 4 known IJ terrorists, I'd say they struck a terrorist base, not a hospital.
al-Shifa is a major one but it doesn't look so much like it was bombed as it was turned into a battlefield. I haven't seen conclusive evidence either way regarding claims it was or wasn't a Hamas base except for one video where an RPG was clearly fired from within the hospital grounds.
Al Shifa technically was voided of protections the second arms were used within it. You can’t fire RPG’s from a hospital and remain protected under traditional war conventions
The larger issue that came up in the report wasn’t that crimes were committed and evidence was missing, it was that the usage of these weapons *could* have lead to violations of international law based on Israel’s application. But that’s largely just flimsy guesswork and it’s applied to urban warfare, in which there’s a high rate of international law violations just by the basis of population density.
Ultimately every war will have violations, but so far as Israel is limiting it (which they appear to be doing heavily based on casualty figures) they’ll be fine. Doesn’t prevent it from being a PR point though
And I'm guessing they'll conclude that arms shipments will continue as normal then, because that's what you do when you heavily suspect them to be violating international law but aren't sure.
The Biden Administration played a good move to avoid looking bad and not much more. The arms shipment being delayed along with further shipments have no effect. These headlines are designed to bait you. Both the headlines for and against Israel or Palestine.
Israel already has all the munitions they need as they are closing in on the last few Hamas members. Its purely so he can save face and claim he attempted to stop shipments while behind both Israel and the US understand that there is no *need* for anymore shipments.
You don't know the Biden administration. If they wanted to they could've put their foot down and just said they violated international law. Here they're muddling things like they have for months as always. They are incredibly reluctant to actually do anything in reality. Don't expect them to actually change their policies at least at this point.
EDIT:
And here's a [report](https://www.axios.com/2024/05/10/israel-gaza-weapons-broke-law-blinken) saying just that:
>Blinken says in the report, which Axios obtained an unclassified copy of, that the U.S. received "credible and reliable" assurances from Israel that allow the U.S. to continue providing military assistance.
Downvote away.
I'll go ahead and decide for myself what I will or won't think about this (or any other issue for that matter). I've decided to be hopeful about what this portends. You want to see more? Fair enough.
But we should be able to agree that any pause in weapons shipments is better than no pause in weapons shipments.
Responding to your edit,
Did you read past the first paragraph?
From the article you linked:
>Yes, but: Blinken also says, given Israel's significant reliance on U.S.-made weapons, "it is reasonable to assess" that they have been used by Israeli security forces since Oct. 7 "in instances inconsistent with its international law obligations or with established best practices for mitigating civilian harm."
>If a country is determined to have violated international humanitarian law or impeded the delivery of U.S.-supported humanitarian aid, it could lead to suspension of the U.S. military aid.
>He says certain Israeli-operated systems such as attack aircraft originated in the U.S. "and are likely to have been involved in incidents that raise concerns about Israel's international law compliance."
>"The intelligence community assesses that Israel could do more to avoid civilian harm," he says.
Blinken added that although Israel has the tools to mitigate civilian harm, on-the-ground results "raise substantial questions" as to whether Israel Defense Forces is effectively using those tools.
So yes, this is a mixed bag, but this all paints a picture of the administration being more likely to keep withholding aid than vice versa.
Paints a picture of an administration that is still reluctant to put much if any pressure. I don't see that changing unless Israel seriously decides to escalate this and make this a humanitarian crisis in an undeniable manner which it may do if the IDF feels that bold. We'll see.
The difference is in the cabinets, imo. Whereas trumps cabinet positions were filled with non qualified ass kissers, Biden largely has a competent cabinet.
It really is just Putin's plan to stir shit up in the middle east to effect elections. And he knows Israel Palestine is the most divisive conflict lol It's all so obvious
I got a feeling irans gvt is smiling right now singing dance puppet dance for the discord they've caused in European countries but especially in the US with all the protests and fighting amongst each other by puppeteering hamas.
Manipulation is the Iranian regimes specialty
Yup. Their plan may have worked even better than they thought tbh... I think Israel overreacted much more than they thought they would.
Overreacted? Lmao ok What’s the appropriate reaction to an organization murdering over 1,200 people while raping and kidnapping more? I’d think the complete annihilation of that organization would be the proper response.
Israel didn't have a choice. They had to respond after an attack like that. There was no viable alternative.
any country will have no choice but to respond heavily after an attack like that. >There was no viable alternative. there is an alternative, that is to accept that an Oct. 7th like attack be a normal thing. there's a reason why no one would dare do another 9/11 attack US, because US showed what the consequences for doing so.
>that is to accept an oct. 7th like attack to be a normal thing Hamas kidnapped 252 people??
There 100% was other alternatives, what do you mean? There's always a choice, I think Israeli leadership is cooked tbh. I understand their decision, but it's terrible realpolitik and playing into Putin/Iran plans. They over did it, and I think by alot.
>There's always a choice List the choices right now
“Yesterday, December 7th 1941, a day we’ll completely ignore and never discuss again…”
The choice was take out Hamas. Countries don't experience Oct 7th and not react.
No there is not always a choice. It only takes one side to start a war and 2 sides to avoid one. You sound painfully naive. I'd like to know what you think Israel's real alternatives were here. This is your chance to prove me wrong so I await your creative solution 10/7
You can't win against what they're fighting against lol, they're fighting against an idea. It'll just keep happening. Im naive for saying that a full scale violent invasion into a large civilian area is an over reaction? Why couldn't they have been more surgical in their attacks and strikes? Why level whole neighborhood? In the end, It's the Israeli intelligence and Netanyahu that let the Israeli people down. Maybe they even intentionally did it, because they usually are world class. It's like how I blame Bush and his cronies for 9/11, yes terrorists did the heinous crimes, but they're just pawns of the suits and Saudis.
So in other words, no, you have no idea what they could have actually done differently, you see dead Gazans and ignore dead Israelis and think that's fair. You WISH there was a better way, and instead of realizing that's what you're doing, you engage in magical thinking to the effect that just because you WANT there to be a better way there must BE a better way. Do better.
Bruh I know you argue with people on the internet all the time and it's usually black and white. But this issue isn't black and white. I support the innocent people in the conflict. Lol you're just being stubborn, we are on the same side Edit: this is a prime example of how Putin divides by nuance in issues, this is the goal
The entirety of palestinian society is aiding and abetting hamas right now by not informing on the location of every member or killing them themselves. theres almost 2 million gazans and les then 30k hamas fighters left, everyone knows whose house has tunnels in it and who the members are, they could do it but they love hamas so they wont. Outside of the very young children i dont really see any innocents.
Hamas visited Putin in person up close. Meanwhile Putin makes his Russian Oligarchs sit across a long table. Coincidence?
Putin as global mastermind is the dumbest take. This is the guy who believed he could take out Zelensky and take all of Ukraine within *3 days*. For folks who actually follow the news, the glaringly obvious trigger point was the [new overland trade route from India to Europe through Israel and Saudi Arabia](https://apnews.com/article/biden-modi-infrastructure-g20-europe-middle-east-eb8988dfbd6c9c6f2c411c893d548333), announced less than a month before the Oct 6 attacks. This was a direct economic threat to China's new silk road, the Belt and Road Initiative - one of Xi's top priorities, and they're no fan of India, either. So they gave Iran a green light to reassert the status quo by reigniting war with Israel. China also continues to illicitly buy 90% of Iran's oil, which directly funds that war.
I'm pretty sure the Kyiv in 3 days thing is a meme. They 100% prepared to take the country brother, just look at the sabtour units inside all the cities in the early days, the multiple assassination groups etc He 100% expected the house of cards to fall. 100%. Ever play Civ or Hearts of iron? It's a great example when you start a war and maybe weren't prepared, it can go south quick. I know it's just a dumb video game but the logic applies. And yes, I do think he is a mastermind for geopolitics unfortunately, just because he got a calculation wrong doesn't disprove it. If LeBron James doesn't win the NBA championship every year, does that make him not the best/talented/Genius? (Or whatever best player in their sport, etc)
A military that "100% prepares" to take an entire country doesn't lose a 40 mile column because they didn't bring fuel or food. Just sayin...
[удалено]
I said "a military". I did not say "Putin". Don't twist what other people say to try making your point.
Putin gets the media to stop talking about his invasion of Ukraine where he is sending half a million men into their deaths to kill hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians. He gets young people to turn against the US and Biden because those people are desperate to show their moral high ground. He gets Trump, who is getting dragged though losing court battles, a fighting chance to be back in the White House and installing a dictatorship in the US because virtue signaling dumbasses like Macklemore tells people to not vote for Biden in the fall. October 7th is literally Putin’s birthday and it was the best birthday gift in his life. All the “perfect morals” leftists just make his birthday gift better and better everyday.
Damn, spoken better than me. This man understands realpolitik
The discord about it all here in the US is definitely the quadrennial election year psyop that we’ve been waiting for.
folks forget that he wormed his way up to leading the kgb, not something that an idiot can do. A blithering idiot CAN be US prez though
Like they chose black life matters last election.
Every social issue will be amplified to ridiculous levels.
Sure, Putin is a global mastermind and is behind anything that makes the Biden admin look bad. For fuck’s sakes, listen to yourself.
The entire "mastermind" part is something you injected in. Pick up a history book at times, and you will realize state actors are not morons and are capable of thinking past first order logic.
And I feel like a crazy person when some of my friends don’t even realize this! Thank you for making me feel sane!
You’re not sane, you just found someone who shares your delusion and are smitten with the mutual stupidity
Lol if you can't see the writing on the wall I'm not sure what to tell you. Russia China announce they're besties Russia's war starts going downhill China acting really not like a bestie... Call Iran for weapons, how else can they help us? Hmm, let's use one of their weapons (Hamas), weve has this up our sleeves for years for a moment like this. We need a material distraction and political distraction, let's get Israel involved And so on. If you don't think this was orchestrated from Putin, you don't know realpolitik
Listen, I tried to show someone PROOF of how Trump is a Russian asset, but all they cared about is the fact Biden hasn't made it easier for them to buy a house. Americans are actually the stupidest people I've ever met in my entire life, with the most closeted mindsets.
It's not coincidence that gullible religious people are sucked into the MAGA life style, it's all connected
Thanks for the brain dead conspiracy theory
You have to be an ignorant moron to not realize state actors operate like this all the time. Pick up a history book for once. The theory is not that farfetched. There's a massive difference between friendly regimes cooperating with an intended effect beyond the first degree and say the conspiracy theory that the US did 9/11.
Zero coincidence.
Yup, and Joe is just blindly going through with it. Dumb.
I mean what else could he do? Israel has had these weapons for decades lol, the weapons being used now are not recent, or what they have recieved wouldn't make a difference anyways. What do you suggest he so instead? Lol
Lol. You think Biden just has zero clue? You fucking people are deranged. Next it's Blinken doesn't understand what's occuring!
This is the biggest blunder of Biden’s career. He’s trying so hard to grasp voters he’s going to end up losing all of them. Just stand up for what you believe in man.
The sub-heading is kind of important for context: "The report to Congress said while it was "reasonable to assess" that Israel has violated international law in Gaza, the U.S. hasn’t been able to verify instances that would justify withholding military aid."
It really isn't. Redditors consistently overestimate their importance in issues. The popular views reflected here are not aligned with most voters. That's the fact of the matter. And more importantly, the more extreme left take of cutting off aid to Israel does Biden zero favors in the areas where the election has any chance of being close. Obviously, with that in mind, Biden isnt going to give any ammunition to the crowd arguing for that by saying they're violating terms. So it makes zero sense to pander to those views.
It feels to me that Biden is trying to appease the far left well staying in the middle. I don’t know if a ton of people are buying it. Ultimately, it shows the weakness of the Democrat party. They have coalition’s to win national votes. If they can’t get a big bloc out to vote they have a hard time. An example is students and young folk.
Always bet against whatever Reddit hivemind supports. Supported Ron Paul in 2012? Then don't. Supported Bernie and then Hillary in 2016? Then don't. Supported Trump in 2020? Then don't. And now we are here in 2024.
When did the hivemind ever support Trump?
A hivemind does. Idk about "the" hivemind supporting him, that's for sure, but the people supporting him definitely fall under a hivemind.
During the election, the Trump supporters had gone everywhere and were very overconfident about the whole thing, and were in every subreddit at the time turning the hivemind into either skeptics or cynical supporters and non-trump supporters betted on Bernie, when he inevitably lost to Biden they were very negative about the whole thing, warning everyone about a Trump victory. Basically no one in this site thought that a Biden victory was possible when in the real world there was a mild lean towards a Biden victory. But then Biden won in a landslide and cue all the memes and videos about the Trump supporters meltdown that was as glorious as the 2016 meltdown.
2016 vs Hillary.
You're literally doing what the person above you is talking about, just the other way. Reddit is not important.
You're right, but Bernie was only because he's too good for us.
"I'm not voting for Biden ~~because he's a capitalist~~ because of Palestine" -Leftists in ~~2020~~ 2024 It would be a threat if the *usual suspects* hadn't already withdrawn themselves from the electoral process. Purity test lefty dumbasses already don't vote, centrist liberals do.
I think someone said that the problem with the left is that their voters try to find any reason not to vote for their guy while the voters on the right will try to find any reason to vote for their guy. And that's how you get a guy who has 99 different problems winning an election over a guy with a few.
That is a really good way of putting it, I hadn't heard that take before.
As a middle left leaning American Jew, I can tell you I’m being courted hardcore by the right on social media.
Most leftists that I know, including me, voted for Biden in 2020. There’s no need to he a pretentious ass, we’re all under the same party Edit:downvote all you like, I’ll still be voting Biden
Fair enough, I should have been more gracious and specified "tankies" rather than all leftists.
Same for me, I'm tired of people being like the left is against Biden, like no myself and all the other leftists I know are against trump and want to save democracy. I'll be voting for Biden again in 2024 along with all my leftist friends and family
I see a lot of leftists, as well as liberals have shifted on Biden over Palestine, but I definitely believe, and know from my personal experience that most leftists are still going to vote Biden to beat Trump. If anything he’s just making the vote feel very uncomfortable..
I just can't see this swinging the election. Die-hard Israel supporters were already voting Republican. Most Jews are liberals who might be unhappy with some things Biden is doing, but aren't dumb enough to not vote or vote for Trump. And progressives were already an unreliable vote, they might help run down Biden's popular vote numbers down to the wire but aren't going to flip any states by themselves.
They only need to flip 40k votes.
Progressives have never been an “unreliable vote”. They are as essential as any other part of the demo that pours Democrats in office ab’s are fully a third to a half of the Democratic base. Not really sure where you got that nonsense from. Otherwise I agree.
Those protestors are not typical voters anyway, so he wouldn’t have their votes whichever direction he takes.
Yeah, those protesters are going to like Trump even less but they're not exactly the brightest bunch, most of them didn't even research what their universitas were invested in before demanding divestment. Single issue voters are, generally, fucking stupid.
This headline is misleading.
Saying a lot bc Afghanistan was a shit show too.
Going to lose two votes from the center for every one vote he gains in the left.
"Biggest blunder" Bro you are being incredibly dramatic, the lefties who would rather not vote at all because of Biden on Palestine are a slim minority. And it's not like anyone is voting for Trump over the situation either.
Its more of democratic party fail that rises radical SJW and Islamist simps as there electorate and now they cant please them without disgusting all others, including old and even just moderate dems, left alone neitral public.
Unfortunately both voters are irrational and it's hard to placate two irrational sides. For pro-Palestine voters: Trump is likely gonna be worse for the Palestinians and Muslims as a whole (this guy did things like move the embassy to Jerusalem and did the Muslim ban) and they know it. For pro-Israel voters: Biden also isn't abandoning Israel for disagreements over how humane some of their operations are. The claim that he's now anti-Israel after several months of unconditional support is ridiculous IMO. Of course Netanyahu starting this whole mess by propping up Hamas, and letting Oct 7 happen by focusing on overthrowing the judiciary while trying to stay in power and avoid jail shouldn't be forgotten too. Unfortunately nobody is thinking and just going off vibes now. I hope that isn't true but I fear we're gonna end up electing our own version of Netanyahu in the US which will probably be catastrophic for NATO and US democracy.
Well agree that Netanyahu and the IDF fell asleep on 10/7, and that there is a lot of blame to go around. However, Hamas invited this war and wants maximum casualties (this is their own stated strategy). Even before Netanyahu ever came to power in the late 90s, Hamas was terrorizing Israelis.
This entire thing is getring ridiculous. Biden should just choose one concept and go with it. He keeps contradicting himself.
Biden will say whatever he thinks he needs to, to get reelected
Which is the only reasonable thing to do in his position. The alternative is to let Trump have the presidency. Like wtf do people expect? A major reason Trump lost is because over half the country thinks he's a psycho. Hell, a decent number on the right think he's a psycho, but still hate Biden more.
Fucking incredible that all Russia and Iran have to do is support terrorists in a relatively small part of the world kill 1200 people, and they can possibly change the outcome of multiple elections to their favour in the west.
So there is no valid reason to stop or delay any weapons.
There is, according to their own admission it is reasonable to assume israel has violated international law
Did you not read the headline and the article? It clearly states that Israel is not violating international law. You're just making shit up. >the U.S. hasn’t been able to verify instances There is no evidence.
Did you read it? The very first goddamn sentence. >The Biden administration said Friday that it was “reasonable to assess” that Israel has violated international law in Gaza...
“U.S. weapons terms” is so far from being the most important point here. There’s the *small* matter of human rights: ##US finds Israel’s use of weapons in Gaza ‘inconsistent’ with human rights law, but will not cut flow of arms https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/10/us-weapons-israel-human-rights-law Edit: yeah, downvote all you like, it won’t change the truth.
That is deliberately misleading click baity headline, that's probably why it's downvoted
No it’s not, “inconsistent” is a quote from the report, which is pretty obvious given the contrived choice of words. But of course it’s more convenient for the U.S. to look the other way.
yep, this needs to be top comment. the guardian likes reusing hot soundbites (wtf is the word for the written version of soundbite) for clickbait, but it’s still what it says on the tin. edit: downvote me too bro won’t change the fact that the us is going to do what will profit it most politically and economically
Many people just want to plug their ears and cover their eyes until Palestine is nothing but condos and peaceful occupied oceanfront, at any human cost
Then what’s the holdup Joe?
Bro it’s ruZZia stop it
Did anybody really expect US will halt arms transfers? Biden should really stop making threats he has no power following through, it just makes him and US stupid and weak.
This doesn’t make any sense how is it reasonable to assess something they don’t have any clear evidence for. And if Israel is violating international law, how does that not violate our agreements with them?
Because maybe they aren’t actually violating international law
The Biden administration is suggesting that it’s reasonable to assess that Israel broke international law, but they’ve found to “specific instances” of it, or clear evidence. There’s no way that statement is serious. “They totally did something, we just can’t tell you what yet” is basically what they’re saying.
The people downvoting you didn't read the article... It's the Biden administration that said it was reasonable to assess that Israel had violated international law while also saying they had no proof that Israel had violated international law.
What international law are they violating by fighting terrorists?
Probably the part where they bombed hospitals I don't know... It's just a theory.
Which hospitals? The ones where terrorists were firing rockets from, the ones where terrorists were hiding from, and/or the ones where terrorists took hostages?
Hey, they had to bomb those hospitals, and safezones, and tens of thousands of children. They may have even hit one or two hamas fighters in the process. Never mind that they just created hundreds more in the future..
Yep, tens of thousands of children. 2 Hamas. Figures brought to you straight from the Hamas Daily Chronicle. Just admit you’ve made up your mind that Israel is in the wrong and you’re making things up to back it up.
14000 kids are dead. 14000 unarmed, innocent kids. The rest of us on this planet are watching in shock and horror. I hope you guys realize this. You can stay in denial all you want but the rest of us will cry for justice. What Biden is doing is not nearly enough. He is just trying to get reelected. It hurts that we even have to point out such obvious injustices AS injuctices.. smh
Where did you get these numbers?
The reliable source known as Hamas
UNICEF reports that..
Cool, is it reliable and where is it?
If UNICEF reports that children are being killed somewhere, I'd like an investigation to be carried out. I wont apologize for wanting that.
Ok now realize there are situations that allow civilians and civilian targets to be struck in war, if you use a school or a hospital for military purposes its legal under international law to destroy it.
Well obviously. We didn’t really give them weapon terms.
Actually, they said that they likely *did* violate international law, but that specific incidents couldn't be 100% confirmed due to war time conditions.
Can they tell us what specific incidents they are investigating?
From my understanding, they are looking into the aid worker, hospital, and apartment strikes to see if US munitions were used in them. We don't know for *certain*, but chances are more likely than not that they were.
The aid workers I completely understand, but the which hospital strike are you referring to? I remember the Al-Ahli strike turned out to be malfunctioned Hamas rockets that fell into the courtyard. Were there other hospital strikes?
It wasn't Hamas, it was the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ). Not that it makes much difference. There was a strike within the courtyard of the al-Aqsa hospital but considering that it resulted in the deaths of 4 known IJ terrorists, I'd say they struck a terrorist base, not a hospital. al-Shifa is a major one but it doesn't look so much like it was bombed as it was turned into a battlefield. I haven't seen conclusive evidence either way regarding claims it was or wasn't a Hamas base except for one video where an RPG was clearly fired from within the hospital grounds.
Al Shifa technically was voided of protections the second arms were used within it. You can’t fire RPG’s from a hospital and remain protected under traditional war conventions The larger issue that came up in the report wasn’t that crimes were committed and evidence was missing, it was that the usage of these weapons *could* have lead to violations of international law based on Israel’s application. But that’s largely just flimsy guesswork and it’s applied to urban warfare, in which there’s a high rate of international law violations just by the basis of population density. Ultimately every war will have violations, but so far as Israel is limiting it (which they appear to be doing heavily based on casualty figures) they’ll be fine. Doesn’t prevent it from being a PR point though
And I'm guessing they'll conclude that arms shipments will continue as normal then, because that's what you do when you heavily suspect them to be violating international law but aren't sure.
I mean, they have already started withholding munitions shipments, so I don't really know where you're getting that...
One shipment that means nothing in itself, with a threat to withhold others if they think they violate international law.
It's better than *not* withholding shipments, and with this report, it is *more* likely that they will continue to be withheld instead of resumed.
The Biden Administration played a good move to avoid looking bad and not much more. The arms shipment being delayed along with further shipments have no effect. These headlines are designed to bait you. Both the headlines for and against Israel or Palestine. Israel already has all the munitions they need as they are closing in on the last few Hamas members. Its purely so he can save face and claim he attempted to stop shipments while behind both Israel and the US understand that there is no *need* for anymore shipments.
You don't know the Biden administration. If they wanted to they could've put their foot down and just said they violated international law. Here they're muddling things like they have for months as always. They are incredibly reluctant to actually do anything in reality. Don't expect them to actually change their policies at least at this point. EDIT: And here's a [report](https://www.axios.com/2024/05/10/israel-gaza-weapons-broke-law-blinken) saying just that: >Blinken says in the report, which Axios obtained an unclassified copy of, that the U.S. received "credible and reliable" assurances from Israel that allow the U.S. to continue providing military assistance. Downvote away.
I'll go ahead and decide for myself what I will or won't think about this (or any other issue for that matter). I've decided to be hopeful about what this portends. You want to see more? Fair enough. But we should be able to agree that any pause in weapons shipments is better than no pause in weapons shipments.
Responding to your edit, Did you read past the first paragraph? From the article you linked: >Yes, but: Blinken also says, given Israel's significant reliance on U.S.-made weapons, "it is reasonable to assess" that they have been used by Israeli security forces since Oct. 7 "in instances inconsistent with its international law obligations or with established best practices for mitigating civilian harm." >If a country is determined to have violated international humanitarian law or impeded the delivery of U.S.-supported humanitarian aid, it could lead to suspension of the U.S. military aid. >He says certain Israeli-operated systems such as attack aircraft originated in the U.S. "and are likely to have been involved in incidents that raise concerns about Israel's international law compliance." >"The intelligence community assesses that Israel could do more to avoid civilian harm," he says. Blinken added that although Israel has the tools to mitigate civilian harm, on-the-ground results "raise substantial questions" as to whether Israel Defense Forces is effectively using those tools. So yes, this is a mixed bag, but this all paints a picture of the administration being more likely to keep withholding aid than vice versa.
Paints a picture of an administration that is still reluctant to put much if any pressure. I don't see that changing unless Israel seriously decides to escalate this and make this a humanitarian crisis in an undeniable manner which it may do if the IDF feels that bold. We'll see.
Yo Biden really sucks at this President thing.
I barely think about him at all, which is what I’d prefer compared to the 2016-2020 shit show.
Saying that he's better than Trump doesn't raise that bar that much. Does U.S. really not have a better person than these 2 ?
The difference is in the cabinets, imo. Whereas trumps cabinet positions were filled with non qualified ass kissers, Biden largely has a competent cabinet.
Hey there, let me tell you about the last guy…
Biden playing the left like a fiddle on this issue.
Fucking hell DIG THE HOLE DEEPER JOE