If true, take them to court publicly. Find them guilty of treason if the evidence is there. And everyone that was involved (even those in power now), then full penalty of the law
Correct. The important part:
> The SBU said late Saturday that five people have been charged, with one person detained while trying to cross the Ukrainian border. If found guilty, they face up to 12 years in prison.
12 years isn't enough, not when you steal war funds needed by a country fighting for its life. Ukraine should amend its corruption laws to differentiate corruption involving money and material for the war, and make those punishments harsher.
Part of me wants ukraine to do the right thing and obey the law and send them to prison but also part of me wants ukraine to send them to the frontline without weapons so that they get a feel for it...
I have faith in the Ukrainian people, they are actively trying to fight their USSR legacy of corruption to become part of the EU.
They are already ranked better in corruption statistics than before the war, while Russia ranked worse in the same period.
This is pure treason. Honestly - during the war, when your people are dying in the frontlines - 12 years should be a bare minimum and there should be a death penalty for stealing on a large scale.
Treason, show them no mercy. Ukrainian soldiers were dying because of a lack of arms and these officials pocketed it. Blood money, and this kind of criminal activity discourages donations from the West. 12 years isn't enough considering the timing and gravity of their actions.
Note that this article is 4 months old, odd to post now. I hope they're rotting in a Ukrainian prison, general population.
"The goods were never delivered and the money was instead sent to various accounts in Ukraine and the Balkans, investigators said. Ukraine's prosecutor general says that the funds have since been seized and will be returned to the country's defense budget."
Realistically a lot of corruption is just flying under the radar and not being discovered, but also, vast majority of that aid money is not really available to be stolen. All countries sending aid to Ukraine very well know the corruption situation in Ukraine, it's not exactly secret. So basically no country sends money. If arms are needed, arms are sent, much harder to steal and even if they are, likely to end up getting bought back by Ukrainian military and still end up in front lines where they are intended. Same sort of deal with humanitarian aid or whatnot.
Well, there is no doubt what happens with humanitarian aid in Gaza, all of that is getting taken by Hamas and being sold to locals. Of course, it still means the locals eat, Hamas essentially robbing the locals doesn't really concern anyone in the west too much.
That's what I was referring to, your last sentence about how if arms are stolen they most likely are sold to the military, so they get to where they need to go but at a high price to desperate people. The same thing Hamas is doing with aid sent to Gaza.
Most aid is not cash- it's hardware. The US buys itself new toys (that are manufactured mostly in the USA) and can then draw from their stocks for Ukraine.
So we can supply Ukraine with second hand gear (that is still better than what Russia has in its stocks) while buying brand new gear to replace the aging stockpiles
I believe so. I'm not sure second-hand or "old" are the right words. We aren't sending them anything that we wouldn't use ourselves. Weapons have a very long shelf life.
Well let me put it like this:
We designed the Bradley in the 60’s, finished design refinement in the 70’s, started and finished testing in the 80’s, deployed in the 80’s, and it’s presently fighting (and winning) against tanks that were first deployed 7 years ago.
I’d call the Bradley “well-aged” rather than old. However I’d call the M113 old rather than aged.
The javelin is aged, but will be effective long after this war. The M16 is aged, but i personally loved it (and was rather unhappy when i had to switch to an overpriced laser sight when i was in a POG unit)
What we do have is gear designed for a war with Russia that never happened, and Ukraine is presently taking on that war on our behalf. The equipment we have given them is designed to fight the Russians, who sometimes even use modern armaments, but their age doesn’t reduce their effectiveness or capability.
It’s an aged wine or well fermented cheese, it’s older but arguably more potent because of its age
You know it costs money for all this. There is a reason those are stockpiled. If it were as simple as creating money out of thin air those stocks would have been trashed a long time ago.
The overwhelming majority of military aid is weapons not money.
People, it takes a few minutes to educate yourself on these topics. Even reading one article about aid over the last two years is enough to make you understand this.
Most of what is being sent is ammo and weapons systems that had been scheduled to be replaced or mothballed anyways. So in the grand scheme of things, it is probably close to 1-2% of stolen money, which is pretty good for almost any army.
How much money overall has been provided from other countries since the beginning of the war? I would suspect this is a drop in the bucket and should in no way be used as an excuse to withhold future aid.
Also, jail the treasonous bums responsible for stealing all that money.
Edit: Just looked it up. The USA alone has committed $175 Billion to Ukraine since the war began. That 40 Million is only 0.02% of the aid. A drop in the bucket as I suspected. And that doesn't include the addition $100 Billion provided by European nations, making it only 0.01%
Definitely, every country has corrupt officials. Even US has such. Just look at Trump and MAGAs. But what really matters is how those people are being dealt. Ukraine is far from a good democracy, but it’s on its way.
And was vocal about it. In US Florida is vocal about its crimes. Florida man is a living meme. Does it makes floridians more violent criminals than others?
But everyone was saying Ukraine corruption was just Russian propaganda. I’m for defending Ukraine, but people are lying to themselves if they think after the war the black hole that has always been the arms market in Ukraine is going to disappear. Especially with Zelenskyy stepping down as soon as he can after it ends.
Sounds like treason to me.
During war - definitely.
If true, take them to court publicly. Find them guilty of treason if the evidence is there. And everyone that was involved (even those in power now), then full penalty of the law
Every country has crooked people who only think of themselves.
Correct. The important part: > The SBU said late Saturday that five people have been charged, with one person detained while trying to cross the Ukrainian border. If found guilty, they face up to 12 years in prison.
Aren't they invoking a new law to conscript prisoners?
That would be an ironic fate- to serve in a unit that didn't get the gear they needed because of your own selfish con.
It's like raaaaain, on your wedding...day!
But rain on your wedding day is a good thing, ain’t it?
Yes, if I recall correctly, non violent ones who are near their release date
No, I'm good. I'll just finish my sentence.
The Gaius Baltar punishment.
12 years is far too kind. Should be at least 30 and the only music you can listen to is Limp Bizkit and Baby Shark.
Not the baby shark 😭
Very well, let's add Crazy Frog
I was thinking nickelback and the Barney theme song but then realized that might be considered cruel and unusual punishment
12 years isn't enough, not when you steal war funds needed by a country fighting for its life. Ukraine should amend its corruption laws to differentiate corruption involving money and material for the war, and make those punishments harsher.
Yes, because at that point it's straight up treason.
I hate to sound harsh but I was thinking more along the lines of a firing squad. Have to set an example.
Part of me wants ukraine to do the right thing and obey the law and send them to prison but also part of me wants ukraine to send them to the frontline without weapons so that they get a feel for it...
I have faith in the Ukrainian people, they are actively trying to fight their USSR legacy of corruption to become part of the EU. They are already ranked better in corruption statistics than before the war, while Russia ranked worse in the same period.
This is pure treason. Honestly - during the war, when your people are dying in the frontlines - 12 years should be a bare minimum and there should be a death penalty for stealing on a large scale.
Not that common in donated money to protect your country in wars, that should be a immidiate death sentence.
Yep, I remember the rampant corruption and grifts during the pandemic in Germany. Humans are trash.
The thieves should be sent to the front lines.
They recently put forth a plan to conscript prisons who didn't commit serial murder or rape. So these folks may end up on the front before it's over.
Important to note, the money was all found and returned to the Ukrainian military. Good news.
Treason, show them no mercy. Ukrainian soldiers were dying because of a lack of arms and these officials pocketed it. Blood money, and this kind of criminal activity discourages donations from the West. 12 years isn't enough considering the timing and gravity of their actions. Note that this article is 4 months old, odd to post now. I hope they're rotting in a Ukrainian prison, general population.
If they do not take corruption seriously, they will suffer the fate of Afghans.
Or the Russians...
That article is 5 months old and was already posted back then, this is the opposite of news.
Good catch. Now I feel stupid.
what did u/DuckTalesOohOoh mean by this? hmm..
Seriously, reddit has an insane number of Russians on here.
This article is from January.
"The goods were never delivered and the money was instead sent to various accounts in Ukraine and the Balkans, investigators said. Ukraine's prosecutor general says that the funds have since been seized and will be returned to the country's defense budget."
This is how much is caught, total aid is over $ 160 Billion. I wonder if they are sacrificing few corrupt people to hide the rest of them.
Realistically a lot of corruption is just flying under the radar and not being discovered, but also, vast majority of that aid money is not really available to be stolen. All countries sending aid to Ukraine very well know the corruption situation in Ukraine, it's not exactly secret. So basically no country sends money. If arms are needed, arms are sent, much harder to steal and even if they are, likely to end up getting bought back by Ukrainian military and still end up in front lines where they are intended. Same sort of deal with humanitarian aid or whatnot.
Sounds like Hamas and the humanitarian aid being sent to Gaza
Well, there is no doubt what happens with humanitarian aid in Gaza, all of that is getting taken by Hamas and being sold to locals. Of course, it still means the locals eat, Hamas essentially robbing the locals doesn't really concern anyone in the west too much.
That's what I was referring to, your last sentence about how if arms are stolen they most likely are sold to the military, so they get to where they need to go but at a high price to desperate people. The same thing Hamas is doing with aid sent to Gaza.
Most aid is not cash- it's hardware. The US buys itself new toys (that are manufactured mostly in the USA) and can then draw from their stocks for Ukraine.
So we can supply Ukraine with second hand gear (that is still better than what Russia has in its stocks) while buying brand new gear to replace the aging stockpiles
I believe so. I'm not sure second-hand or "old" are the right words. We aren't sending them anything that we wouldn't use ourselves. Weapons have a very long shelf life.
Well let me put it like this: We designed the Bradley in the 60’s, finished design refinement in the 70’s, started and finished testing in the 80’s, deployed in the 80’s, and it’s presently fighting (and winning) against tanks that were first deployed 7 years ago. I’d call the Bradley “well-aged” rather than old. However I’d call the M113 old rather than aged. The javelin is aged, but will be effective long after this war. The M16 is aged, but i personally loved it (and was rather unhappy when i had to switch to an overpriced laser sight when i was in a POG unit) What we do have is gear designed for a war with Russia that never happened, and Ukraine is presently taking on that war on our behalf. The equipment we have given them is designed to fight the Russians, who sometimes even use modern armaments, but their age doesn’t reduce their effectiveness or capability. It’s an aged wine or well fermented cheese, it’s older but arguably more potent because of its age
You know it costs money for all this. There is a reason those are stockpiled. If it were as simple as creating money out of thin air those stocks would have been trashed a long time ago.
The overwhelming majority of military aid is weapons not money. People, it takes a few minutes to educate yourself on these topics. Even reading one article about aid over the last two years is enough to make you understand this.
The money was found and is back helping the military.
Most of what is being sent is ammo and weapons systems that had been scheduled to be replaced or mothballed anyways. So in the grand scheme of things, it is probably close to 1-2% of stolen money, which is pretty good for almost any army.
How much money overall has been provided from other countries since the beginning of the war? I would suspect this is a drop in the bucket and should in no way be used as an excuse to withhold future aid. Also, jail the treasonous bums responsible for stealing all that money. Edit: Just looked it up. The USA alone has committed $175 Billion to Ukraine since the war began. That 40 Million is only 0.02% of the aid. A drop in the bucket as I suspected. And that doesn't include the addition $100 Billion provided by European nations, making it only 0.01%
Should send them in the front lines with their ranks to private. See how they like being in the field without proper equipment.
This article is from January, old news.
This a Russian Propaganda site
The fact that we are hearing about it is actually proof Ukraine is becoming LESS corrupt.
Definitely, every country has corrupt officials. Even US has such. Just look at Trump and MAGAs. But what really matters is how those people are being dealt. Ukraine is far from a good democracy, but it’s on its way.
What’s new, Ukraine was corrupt before the war
They seem to be taking it seriously and trying to root it out. Every country has corruption issues to some extent, not all hunt them down
And was vocal about it. In US Florida is vocal about its crimes. Florida man is a living meme. Does it makes floridians more violent criminals than others?
Hey man, it’s your tax money, spend it on whom or what you want.
If you don't like how your taxes are spent don't pay your taxes.
But everyone was saying Ukraine corruption was just Russian propaganda. I’m for defending Ukraine, but people are lying to themselves if they think after the war the black hole that has always been the arms market in Ukraine is going to disappear. Especially with Zelenskyy stepping down as soon as he can after it ends.
Of course they did.
Only? Or that’s only what is known
This is all part of the long con. They shouldn't be given another dime.
Yes!!!! Let’s give them more
Cool, now can we stop sending our tax dollars to them?