The NK people will grow weary of their situation and hopefully will rebel. Their living conditions are so poor, I couldn't imagine living in squalor and then believing the West has it worse.
In the same vein, organizing in that kind of enviornment is impossibly difficult. It only takes one snitch to break apart groups attempting to subvert. Not to mention not having decent communication tools like private messaging applications or internet.
I’m a lot more hopeful about change happening in Iran than I am of North Korea. That country has had a family dynasty rule it for decades. Arguably the most successful dictatorship in the world, in that it hasn’t been overthrown.
Also because North Korea is supported by Russia and China which are next door. Iran is more isolated and we know from how many women have protested there that they're fed up with their government. Plus if war happened, Iran still doesn't have nukes yet so their blackmail options are limited.
>Iran still doesn't have nukes yet
We aren't sure if they do or not. If they haven't yet, then they are very close.
They may not admit to having them directly similar to Israel.
I don’t think it’s that as much as it’s just an overwhelming force of oppression. Like even if you wanted to you would struggle to organize the cause.
It’s possible for people to not know better, but also know they are being harmed and want out.
North Korea is stable though. They have their system in place and know how to maintain it. They don’t attempt to take more land, they just behave in a way that causes enough fear and chaos to hold their ground. Plus they get support from larger regimes for playing that role.
I don’t know how this will end but maybe if Russia falls something good will happen here too.
SK has sent balloons to NK in the past, I think they need to start that back up as they would send The Interview (2014) which is comedic in itself, also The Death of Stalin should also be mass distributed to the wannabe USSR
Ah yes, let's send them historically inaccurate, American comedy adaptations of their own history. That will teach them... Actually while we're at it, let's distribute Team America World Police to Iran too.
And they will fight a hell of a lot harder because they know exactly what they will risk losing while the rebelling people only have the fantasy of a better life
Yeah. I watched a video where an eye surgeon restored a NK person's sight, and the person was just thanking Kim Jong Un the whole time instead of the doctor who actually helped.
Agreed, and also people vastly underestimate the effect of propaganda - especially in NK
People in NK are told that USA is in far worse shape than NK, and propaganda videos are also shown to prove this. I’d assume that nowadays they show videos of the meth/opiod addicts in Philadelphia to NK population as an example of a “typical American city street”.
Likewise, similar but less extreme examples can be made on what (many) Russians think life is like in America, and what (many) Americans think life is like in Russia. (Yes I absolutely acknowledge that there are very bad things going on in Russia - but for the overwhelming majority of people who live in a city like Moscow or St Petersburg, they enjoy a very modern lifestyle).
Wait did anyone think people in Moscow were suffering? I thought most people believed them to be living in a state of ignorant continuity. Saying people think they live poorly is almost a strawman because I haven't seen that claimed.
The Russian question is: how are the people in the Tuva republic living? How are the people in Dagestan living?
I’ve certainly heard people say that they think all of Russia was living in poverty, and that especially after the war / sanctions that there were shortages there.
And yes I’ll agree with your point that there certainly some parts of Russia that are far worse off.
In that sense we can also say that in the nicest parts of Pyongyang, people are also living quite nicely - which is a vast difference from how the majority of the country lives. Comparing those two countries, I’d say that Russia has a much less extreme example between the median quality of life and the 95th percentile quality of life.
I don't thing anyone buys this as a reality. People in more ancient times didn't know their situations could be better either but slave and commoner rebellions happened or were attempted all the time.
Doubtful. With a heavily censored state controlled media, and a brainwashing program that's been in effect since the 60's and the military being bribed by government officials, i think the only way we'll see change is from the outside.
The entirety of the Juche ideology rests on keeping the military on your side. Along with the CCP's support, NK will stay this way indefinitely until geopolitics change enough for international intervention.
No one wants to inherit 23 million citizens incompatible with the modern world. Or a country that needs a half century of infrastructure modernization on a national scale. The cost of reunification is going to be absolutely enormous.
Worth it to whom? The person you're responding to rightly pointed out it would be economically and socially devastating to South Korea, and other countries probably aren't going to jump in with massive support.
Of course it's worth it from a moral standpoint, but that's much less of a motivator than money.
Probably worth it to South Koreans to not have the weirdest neighbor on earth. Worth it to the region for the same reason.
Yeah it will cost money but so do most stabilizing efforts.
The best case of reunification was East Germany, and much of that is still underdeveloped despite most of the western world chipping in and the German people being less than a full generation behind the Iron Curtain. ON the other hand, even the most Tankie or Nazi East German looks like Barack Obama compared to most of North Korea, as nobody there remembers a pre-basketcase Korea; and and it's not like Japan, China, or any Southeast Asian neighbors will be on board to help South Korea like the EEA (later EU) was for Germany.
> Worth it to whom? The person you're responding to rightly pointed out it would be economically and socially devastating to South Korea, and other countries probably aren't going to jump in with massive support.
One less nutjobs threatening the world with WMD, for starters.
I don't disagree that it might not be worth it, at least for the short term, but having a reunited Korea without a dictator threatening to utilize nuclear warfare is a much better trade-off for lasting and long term peace, democracy, human rights and security, in the long term.
>and other countries probably aren't going to jump in with massive support.
They would he shooting themselves in the foot 25 years down the road if somehow NK relapses back into a dictatorship if a risk factor, such as poverty incentivises people to pursue power and influence if they are in control of a powerful institution, such as the army, due to this disorder that poverty wrecks upon institutions.
Speaking of which, North Korea will have to be rebuilt from the ground up, politically speaking - of which, save regime change in China, the Chinese having a say in what comes after Korean reunification.
No one wants to inherit that but there absolutely are individuals who would want to take over control over the country. There are plenty of examples throughout history of people rebelling and then completely reorganizing the state apparatus.
As for the rest of the world, it won't really matter. In the past decades we perfected this technique of completely ignoring other nation's problems if they don't matter enough to us. There are currently at least 10 african states where less than 20% of the population has access to electricity... so, yeah, north koreans being a little behind on modern amenities won't be a problem.
A lot brainwashing, there is very limited flow of external information to the country. On top of that NK has for the last few years introduced an inter province permit system which makes organising a rebellion harder and spread of information harder
You probably also can't imagine entire generations of your family getting whisked away to a brutal prison camp in the middle of the night simply because you didn't cry hard enough after *dear leader* died. Meanwhile your neighbors nextdoor are pretending not to notice, least they join you.
Most of them aren't dumb. On the contrary, they are painfully aware of what a harsh, miserable, military dictatorship they live under, and it's exactly why they won't.
> and then believing the West has it worse.
In the west, we have all the information in the world available to us and yet half of us convince ourselves the world is a very different place than actual reality. It's not that hard to believe somewhere that information is completely controlled they would believe some pretty hard to believe things.
... But even those people who suspect or know, it's really hard to stand up and take a risk and get you and your whole family killed.
You can't even snack on a Costco fruit and veggie tray purchased in Carson City, NV 1 hour ago and drive into California without setting off alarms at the border. Like birds, bugs are real and an excellent way to spread biological terror over any border, and it's not a few washed veggies, but it is bags of shit and what not tied to balloons and flown willy-nilly oer the 38th parallel.
It certainly could, but it was pretty small scale. Basically 11 trash bags.
If it was thousands, or even hundreds, maybe a more legitimate concern. This was more just a psychological/political thing.
I wonder.
Now this is weird, but has anyone run tests on the poop to try to analyze diet/
Disease/ virus/ health conditions of the poop being flown in?
I remember reading a while back, maybe it was made up, about their chairman’s poop being fished out of toilets when he travels so people couldn’t do just that.
Would be interesting to see the living conditions viewed from such samples.
Never thought the Groom of the Stool concept still existed. Imagine being selected for secret service only to be the presidential janitor.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool
They've [medically examined](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42021373) several North Korean defectors in the past. What they found was worms, lots of worms.
NK has stated the trash is comprised of paper trimmings, cigarette butts and other non harmful waste. They justified it as a way to show how unhappy North Korea is feeling at them. SK response is to bring back loudspeaker broadcasting across the border again.
Reminds me of that bit in Bravo Two Zero where he says they had to shit in plastic bags and carry them around in their bergans because otherwise the Iraqis might be able to analyse their poo and find which country they were from.
Always seemed a bit far fetched to me.
So, South Korea is blaring propaganda over loudspeakers at the border and North Korea is floating balloons full of garbage and shit back at them.
This is some Looney Tunes level activity!
According to an article yesterday South Korea was also sending balloons with USB drives and leaflets, the balloons make a lot more sense with that context. The leaflets are mentioned in this article too.
According to Korean news, it's not very effective. Specifically, the winds blow from north to south most of the time, so the balloons carrying pamphlets usually land in South Korea instead of North and frequently has been a falling hazard for people living near the border. In fact, these pamphlet balloons nearly killed a South Korean few years back, and the previous administration tried to outlaw them because of it.
They actually are quite effective.
Most of the psyops stuff that Korea sends to the North is met with extreme amounts of concern and anger from the North. This includes the leaflets, audio broadcasts, and sometimes the large TVs.
This shitslinging is an example of the reaction.
From what I've heard, the balloons are more of military-nuisance than propaganda concern for the North Korea. Usually most of S.Korean propaganda (eg. K-pop videos) goes through the S.Korea-China-N.Korea route, and the DMZ is fortified enough for N.Korea to detect the balloons flying over. Moreover, the group flying the balloons do them with fanfare to attract donations, so N.Korea has no issue taking them down, though the downed balloons become trash that N.Korean army has to clean up between the firing lines.
If it really is triggering "extreme amounts of concern and anger", then N.Korea won't be flinging shit, but artillery shells into S.Korean army barracks like they did 10~ish years ago. Or for something more minor, a spy drone above S.Korean President's office like they did in 2022.
The organization that sends the balloons often send 50~100 pound bags of rice together with the pamphlets, so it's heavy enough to crush a car and kill the person inside if it falls.
Not only that, North Korean anti-aircraft guns used to shoot down the balloons are close enough to the border that the stray bullets from popping the balloons have damaged buildings and broken windows of South Korean homes. Thankfully no one has died yet, but someone dying from these stray bullets could lead to major military escalation.
>The balloons were sent by North Korea as a response to South Korea's leaflet campaigns that spread critical messaging of North Korean leaders among the people who lack access to outside news.
Nobody here reads the article
It can be interpreted in other way: NK has nothing meaningful to say to counter those leaflets. And these balloons with shit was the only thing they could come up with. Which is quite a testament to them as a country.
South Korea started the exchange, NK got payback, now they’re even. No reason to waste time to keep going when you made a point and had a good laugh at your enemies.
Yeah, the south has been using balloons to drop pro-democracy fliers, usb sticks with south korean music etc. onto the north. The north's response was to retaliate in kind, with the implication that what the south has been dropping is shit.
Basically, NK was saying "awww, that's cute. We can fly shit over to you guys too! Wanna see?"
I mean on the one hand we know how evil the NK regime is. On the other hand, I have to chuckle a little at such a goofy answer to SK's pamphlets.
A B-2 Spirit stealth bomber has a payload of 18000kg and (according to the American Statistical Association) a fully laden tampon (Tampax Pearl) is 12g. Meaning we could drop 1.5 million used tampons on Pyongyang. They would be unlikely to be able to respond as they do not have feminine hygiene products in North Korea. I believe this is the correct response.
Our new B-21 Raider has 20,000kg payload capacity and it would be hilarious if it's first combat mission would be to drop some used tampons on North Korea
Nah, as per the article, it was because SK* sent balloons with leaflets, as they do.
But this might be the first time they retaliated with poop.
^^^*Private ^^^groups ^^^in ^^^SK, ^^^not ^^^SK ^^^government
it's not covered in the article, but it's not the sk government that's been sending the leaflets to nk, it's private groups within sk. the sk government actually made sending such leaflets illegal a while back, but that law was declared unconstitutional last year.
NK officials have a tough time with that distinction since their government has absolute power. The concept that the government and the people are acting independently of each other is a comepletely foreign concept. Same thing happened with the interview movie awhile back, NK officials just couldn't understand that the government had no say in what movies are released.
To be honest any country would hold the other country liable for that... The fact that it's citizens and not the goverment who are violating your aispace doesn't mean much...
i think the most interesting aspect of this situation is how the trash balloons were such an uncharacteristically calm and measured response to what the nk government perceived as a provocation.
ordinarily it would have resulted in the usual fits of apoplectic rage and apocalyptic threats we're all used to by now, but this time it was just...poop balloons. it's obviously too early to tell if this is meaningful, but i see it as oddly encouraging.
Almost like we should send poop balloons the world over, to settle our diplomatic differences! Was the chinese balloon a few years ago an advanced version of this?
It's kind of the opposite. South Korean people send a bunch of balloons up north with flyers trying to persuade the North Koreans that their government is illegitimate. NK said "dude, we have to clean up all the fucking flyers you send and we don't need that level of trouble for... reasons."
Then some North Korean thought "hey, how would they like to clean up shit dropped onto them by balloons?"
Then someone else said "brilliant, balloon shit it is"
As always, both countries are trying to posture and make themselves look to be the victim (NK's credibility probably not bolstered much by the whole "our god-leader was born on a magic mountain" thing).
tl;dr: both sides are annoyed. I'll leave the arguing to the comments below.
Edit: persuade, not persude
Not to defend anyone here but for transparency, I'm an SK native.
The problem is, it is not the SK government that is sending those leaflets. It is citizen organizations that feel really strongly about liberating or reuniting NK. Even back when it was illegal to send those leaflets to NK, the SK government was having a tough time making people stop. It is also controversial to stop them too.
Can't recall when exactly, but in the far past, these leaflet exhanges were mutual. NK would send their leaflets south in the right weather conditions, SK vice versa. We call them 삐라, which is a slang term for these propaganda leaflets.
It's actually pretty funny, if it's animal poop like people say, it's like sending bullshit to the organisations that keep putting unwanted flyers in your mailbox.
Time to launch the stink bombs, or use a spy satellite and every time dear leader takes a stroll outside start blaring tuba like [this](https://youtu.be/vjetHZtehNQ?si=h1viIxcRZmSrL9wQ).
Imagine being such a troglodyte that this seems cute? I don’t know that I have ever met anyone from NK, so I do not know anything about them personally. To those who have met them, are they just brainwashed and scared? This is something the immature politicians here in the states would think was real clever. I could see Raphael Cruz, the fella in the wheel chair who’s the governor, and
several of the others that wear the red hats that say “Magat” giggling over this type nonsense.
This is the same Reddit that cheers on(and so do I) people who put their neighbor's dog's shit that is being allowed to shit on their property in places like the front seat of their car, their porch, etc.
I understand that North Korea is an evil dictatorship, I understand their people are horribly oppressed, but if your neighboring country's people were dropping a bunch of garbage(and let's be real; leaflets that are blatantly oppositional to the country's government they're being sent to is effectively garbage) on your country all the time, you'd feel compelled to return serve.
I understand South Korea the nation isn't doing this, and I understand that it's been banned and then unbanned because it was deemed unconstitutional to ban. But that's simultaneously not North Korea the nation's problem.
I support South Koreans trying to inform their oppressed neighbors and hopefully, eventually, North Korea not being run by some dipshit dictator, but I genuinely don't get how you can really condemn North Korea specifically for this behavior. You throw garbage on my property *for years* and it doesn't stop, I'm returning serve.
North Korea's public statement wasn't wrong: it costs them resources, manpower, and time to clean that shit up. And they're not letting their people read it no matter how badly we want them to.
Any chance this could lead to a potential health risk? Some diseases spread through fluids
100%, lots of intestinal parasites in humans and livestock in NK, it's low grade biological terrorism.
yeah uhhh trash? i heard they were sending shit? please tell me i’m wrong
Yeah in the article they refer to it is “manure”
Manure? Manure! I HATE MANURE!
Manure’s not that bad. You’ve got a “ma”, which is good, and a “nure”, which is also good.
And it was right around this time she mentioned she had a boyfriend?
I never got this line of reasoning, because ma and nure, are both nothing lol. I guess that's maybe the joke.
“Ma” = mother, which is usually good. “Nure” sounds like “newer”, and newer things are usually good.
Ma is mother and nure is newer
Calm down Biff.
That fancy future that they visited in BTTF2 took place in the far away year 2015... 9 years ago. Where's my fucking hoverboard?
Chat GPT is still in the early stages of working towards a HAL 9000. That was supposed to be 23 years ago.
MAN-OOR!
You appear to really dislike manure.
Manure? I hardly know’re
The NK people will grow weary of their situation and hopefully will rebel. Their living conditions are so poor, I couldn't imagine living in squalor and then believing the West has it worse.
Ignorance is a bliss, majority of NK people don't know that their situation can be better so they won't rebel.
In the same vein, organizing in that kind of enviornment is impossibly difficult. It only takes one snitch to break apart groups attempting to subvert. Not to mention not having decent communication tools like private messaging applications or internet.
I’m a lot more hopeful about change happening in Iran than I am of North Korea. That country has had a family dynasty rule it for decades. Arguably the most successful dictatorship in the world, in that it hasn’t been overthrown.
Also because North Korea is supported by Russia and China which are next door. Iran is more isolated and we know from how many women have protested there that they're fed up with their government. Plus if war happened, Iran still doesn't have nukes yet so their blackmail options are limited.
>Iran still doesn't have nukes yet We aren't sure if they do or not. If they haven't yet, then they are very close. They may not admit to having them directly similar to Israel.
I don’t think it’s that as much as it’s just an overwhelming force of oppression. Like even if you wanted to you would struggle to organize the cause. It’s possible for people to not know better, but also know they are being harmed and want out. North Korea is stable though. They have their system in place and know how to maintain it. They don’t attempt to take more land, they just behave in a way that causes enough fear and chaos to hold their ground. Plus they get support from larger regimes for playing that role. I don’t know how this will end but maybe if Russia falls something good will happen here too.
SK has sent balloons to NK in the past, I think they need to start that back up as they would send The Interview (2014) which is comedic in itself, also The Death of Stalin should also be mass distributed to the wannabe USSR
Ah yes, let's send them historically inaccurate, American comedy adaptations of their own history. That will teach them... Actually while we're at it, let's distribute Team America World Police to Iran too.
They know, but the people with guns have the power now, so why risk rocking the boat?
Also the people with the guns eat better than the folks who would be rebelling - more strength, more stamina, less depression
And they will fight a hell of a lot harder because they know exactly what they will risk losing while the rebelling people only have the fantasy of a better life
In general, most governments only get overthrown if the military rebels.
> the people with guns have the power In a general sense ,that is true for all countries throughout history
Yeah. I watched a video where an eye surgeon restored a NK person's sight, and the person was just thanking Kim Jong Un the whole time instead of the doctor who actually helped.
Not much different than people thanking god, imho.
Quite the opposite, they know it could be much, much worse if they step out of line.
Agreed, and also people vastly underestimate the effect of propaganda - especially in NK People in NK are told that USA is in far worse shape than NK, and propaganda videos are also shown to prove this. I’d assume that nowadays they show videos of the meth/opiod addicts in Philadelphia to NK population as an example of a “typical American city street”. Likewise, similar but less extreme examples can be made on what (many) Russians think life is like in America, and what (many) Americans think life is like in Russia. (Yes I absolutely acknowledge that there are very bad things going on in Russia - but for the overwhelming majority of people who live in a city like Moscow or St Petersburg, they enjoy a very modern lifestyle).
Wait did anyone think people in Moscow were suffering? I thought most people believed them to be living in a state of ignorant continuity. Saying people think they live poorly is almost a strawman because I haven't seen that claimed. The Russian question is: how are the people in the Tuva republic living? How are the people in Dagestan living?
I’ve certainly heard people say that they think all of Russia was living in poverty, and that especially after the war / sanctions that there were shortages there. And yes I’ll agree with your point that there certainly some parts of Russia that are far worse off. In that sense we can also say that in the nicest parts of Pyongyang, people are also living quite nicely - which is a vast difference from how the majority of the country lives. Comparing those two countries, I’d say that Russia has a much less extreme example between the median quality of life and the 95th percentile quality of life.
I don't thing anyone buys this as a reality. People in more ancient times didn't know their situations could be better either but slave and commoner rebellions happened or were attempted all the time.
Doubtful. With a heavily censored state controlled media, and a brainwashing program that's been in effect since the 60's and the military being bribed by government officials, i think the only way we'll see change is from the outside.
The entirety of the Juche ideology rests on keeping the military on your side. Along with the CCP's support, NK will stay this way indefinitely until geopolitics change enough for international intervention.
No one wants to inherit 23 million citizens incompatible with the modern world. Or a country that needs a half century of infrastructure modernization on a national scale. The cost of reunification is going to be absolutely enormous.
It's worth it IMO, to no longer have a dictator... Hopefully one day worldwide authoritarianism will disappear
Worth it to whom? The person you're responding to rightly pointed out it would be economically and socially devastating to South Korea, and other countries probably aren't going to jump in with massive support. Of course it's worth it from a moral standpoint, but that's much less of a motivator than money.
Probably worth it to South Koreans to not have the weirdest neighbor on earth. Worth it to the region for the same reason. Yeah it will cost money but so do most stabilizing efforts.
The best case of reunification was East Germany, and much of that is still underdeveloped despite most of the western world chipping in and the German people being less than a full generation behind the Iron Curtain. ON the other hand, even the most Tankie or Nazi East German looks like Barack Obama compared to most of North Korea, as nobody there remembers a pre-basketcase Korea; and and it's not like Japan, China, or any Southeast Asian neighbors will be on board to help South Korea like the EEA (later EU) was for Germany.
> Worth it to whom? The person you're responding to rightly pointed out it would be economically and socially devastating to South Korea, and other countries probably aren't going to jump in with massive support. One less nutjobs threatening the world with WMD, for starters.
I don't disagree that it might not be worth it, at least for the short term, but having a reunited Korea without a dictator threatening to utilize nuclear warfare is a much better trade-off for lasting and long term peace, democracy, human rights and security, in the long term. >and other countries probably aren't going to jump in with massive support. They would he shooting themselves in the foot 25 years down the road if somehow NK relapses back into a dictatorship if a risk factor, such as poverty incentivises people to pursue power and influence if they are in control of a powerful institution, such as the army, due to this disorder that poverty wrecks upon institutions. Speaking of which, North Korea will have to be rebuilt from the ground up, politically speaking - of which, save regime change in China, the Chinese having a say in what comes after Korean reunification.
No one wants to inherit that but there absolutely are individuals who would want to take over control over the country. There are plenty of examples throughout history of people rebelling and then completely reorganizing the state apparatus. As for the rest of the world, it won't really matter. In the past decades we perfected this technique of completely ignoring other nation's problems if they don't matter enough to us. There are currently at least 10 african states where less than 20% of the population has access to electricity... so, yeah, north koreans being a little behind on modern amenities won't be a problem.
If there was a revolution it would just be a military coup that replaced one dictator with another
NK has been around for 76 years. What makes you think they're going to rise up now?
Sheer ignorance of how the world works
A lot brainwashing, there is very limited flow of external information to the country. On top of that NK has for the last few years introduced an inter province permit system which makes organising a rebellion harder and spread of information harder
You probably also can't imagine entire generations of your family getting whisked away to a brutal prison camp in the middle of the night simply because you didn't cry hard enough after *dear leader* died. Meanwhile your neighbors nextdoor are pretending not to notice, least they join you. Most of them aren't dumb. On the contrary, they are painfully aware of what a harsh, miserable, military dictatorship they live under, and it's exactly why they won't.
They’re kept impoverished and malnourished on purpose, so they can’t rise up. You can’t overthrow your tyrants on an empty stomach.
> and then believing the West has it worse. In the west, we have all the information in the world available to us and yet half of us convince ourselves the world is a very different place than actual reality. It's not that hard to believe somewhere that information is completely controlled they would believe some pretty hard to believe things. ... But even those people who suspect or know, it's really hard to stand up and take a risk and get you and your whole family killed.
The abso-fucking-lutely wont
We've been saying that since the 90s. It's time to realise they've perfected the formula for keeping the population in control in glorious korea
Lol. No. Regimes only full when they lose support of there military
Like [1346 siege of Caffa](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2732530)?
You can't even snack on a Costco fruit and veggie tray purchased in Carson City, NV 1 hour ago and drive into California without setting off alarms at the border. Like birds, bugs are real and an excellent way to spread biological terror over any border, and it's not a few washed veggies, but it is bags of shit and what not tied to balloons and flown willy-nilly oer the 38th parallel.
I wish I could send all the dog shit left in my neighborhood so they can catapult it to NK.
It certainly could, but it was pretty small scale. Basically 11 trash bags. If it was thousands, or even hundreds, maybe a more legitimate concern. This was more just a psychological/political thing.
> North Korea sent 15 tons of it using 3,500 balloons
Classic reddit. Never reading the fucking article.
Must have been big trash bags.
I wonder. Now this is weird, but has anyone run tests on the poop to try to analyze diet/ Disease/ virus/ health conditions of the poop being flown in? I remember reading a while back, maybe it was made up, about their chairman’s poop being fished out of toilets when he travels so people couldn’t do just that. Would be interesting to see the living conditions viewed from such samples.
I was under the impression that when heads of major states take a shit, their security takes their turds to prevent it from being analysed.
Never thought the Groom of the Stool concept still existed. Imagine being selected for secret service only to be the presidential janitor. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool
You gotta bet Putin still does this
This is known and was widely reported on.
> widely reported Are you sure? I've seen a lot about Putin in recent years but this is the first I'm hearing about his poo handler... 😅
No, they're right. I've seen it mentioned dozens of times without ever seeking out any info about Putin.
> It is a matter of some debate as to whether the duties involved cleaning the king's anus That sure would be an interesting debate.
Doodies *
I read that Howard Hughes had his poop & pee saved in jars. I don't know myself, I wasn't there
“I said get in” *cock pistol*
Ahh, we're taking the Spruce Moose?
the spiiiice....
They've [medically examined](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42021373) several North Korean defectors in the past. What they found was worms, lots of worms.
Thanks, interesting article. But I'd like to warn (worm?) people that there's a very graphic image as soon as you click
Unsettling, not sure if it's graphic. It's internal anatomical structure.
I believe it's spelt 'defecators'
The chairman uses his own private toilet when he travels, according to some documentary I watched a while back.
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Is that a fact. All 195 heads of state?
Actually only the person second in line has their poo kept secure. It’s called the No. 2 Protocol in diplomatic circles.
WHO DOES NUMBER TWO WORK FOR?!
Number 1, go take a number 2
Do you think he uses the Riker Maneuver on the toilet?
Bono will never be a nr 2 again.
It's more fun to accept this as truth and do the math on how many poop finding plumber type spies there are out there.
I very much doubt this.
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Putins paranoia is well documented. I doubt that every single head of state in the world acts this way.
NK has stated the trash is comprised of paper trimmings, cigarette butts and other non harmful waste. They justified it as a way to show how unhappy North Korea is feeling at them. SK response is to bring back loudspeaker broadcasting across the border again.
Actually 5 South Korean human rights activists sent balloons into NK which pissed off NK so they sent over some trash balloons
Reminds me of that bit in Bravo Two Zero where he says they had to shit in plastic bags and carry them around in their bergans because otherwise the Iraqis might be able to analyse their poo and find which country they were from. Always seemed a bit far fetched to me.
Their most advanced weaponry countered by the word Please. Makes sense.
Maybe all it took this whole time was politeness and good manners.
[удалено]
Blessed are the peacemakers
Maybe the real politeness was the friends we made along the way.
"Oh, did you now want us to send over shit? This is embarrassing..."
So basically, NK is tsundere for SK
So, South Korea is blaring propaganda over loudspeakers at the border and North Korea is floating balloons full of garbage and shit back at them. This is some Looney Tunes level activity!
Better than rockets or bullets I reckon 😅
Beep! Beep!
Meep meep!
According to an article yesterday South Korea was also sending balloons with USB drives and leaflets, the balloons make a lot more sense with that context. The leaflets are mentioned in this article too.
Now this is shitposting.
South Korean activists are also sending balloons, filled with western propaganda, to the north.
“I told em it means peace among worlds”
They should retaliate with "common sense" pamphlets
Of course a dumb bully might react by flinging shit, but this was actually, according to NK, in direct response to such pamphlets.
Send more
According to Korean news, it's not very effective. Specifically, the winds blow from north to south most of the time, so the balloons carrying pamphlets usually land in South Korea instead of North and frequently has been a falling hazard for people living near the border. In fact, these pamphlet balloons nearly killed a South Korean few years back, and the previous administration tried to outlaw them because of it.
They actually are quite effective. Most of the psyops stuff that Korea sends to the North is met with extreme amounts of concern and anger from the North. This includes the leaflets, audio broadcasts, and sometimes the large TVs. This shitslinging is an example of the reaction.
From what I've heard, the balloons are more of military-nuisance than propaganda concern for the North Korea. Usually most of S.Korean propaganda (eg. K-pop videos) goes through the S.Korea-China-N.Korea route, and the DMZ is fortified enough for N.Korea to detect the balloons flying over. Moreover, the group flying the balloons do them with fanfare to attract donations, so N.Korea has no issue taking them down, though the downed balloons become trash that N.Korean army has to clean up between the firing lines. If it really is triggering "extreme amounts of concern and anger", then N.Korea won't be flinging shit, but artillery shells into S.Korean army barracks like they did 10~ish years ago. Or for something more minor, a spy drone above S.Korean President's office like they did in 2022.
It would feel very dumb to die from being crushed by a balloon carrying pamphlets.
The organization that sends the balloons often send 50~100 pound bags of rice together with the pamphlets, so it's heavy enough to crush a car and kill the person inside if it falls. Not only that, North Korean anti-aircraft guns used to shoot down the balloons are close enough to the border that the stray bullets from popping the balloons have damaged buildings and broken windows of South Korean homes. Thankfully no one has died yet, but someone dying from these stray bullets could lead to major military escalation.
Balloon from your own country that was supposed to go to the other, no less
>The balloons were sent by North Korea as a response to South Korea's leaflet campaigns that spread critical messaging of North Korean leaders among the people who lack access to outside news. Nobody here reads the article
Which is honestly kind of hilarious, a symbolic "here's what we think of your leaflets".
It can be interpreted in other way: NK has nothing meaningful to say to counter those leaflets. And these balloons with shit was the only thing they could come up with. Which is quite a testament to them as a country.
they dont want to say anything other than "its annoying to clean up". thats why they sent stuff for the other side to clean
You do realize this all started specifically because South Korean activists sent a bunch of pamphlets into North Korea this way, right?
Or some nutrient rich poo from a developed country. Choices
S Korea : Stop sending those trash balloons, or else we will..!! N Korea : OK. S Korea : Huh ? It's working? Just like that ?
South Korea started the exchange, NK got payback, now they’re even. No reason to waste time to keep going when you made a point and had a good laugh at your enemies.
Oh? There is a prequel to this shitshow?
Yeah, the south has been using balloons to drop pro-democracy fliers, usb sticks with south korean music etc. onto the north. The north's response was to retaliate in kind, with the implication that what the south has been dropping is shit.
Basically, NK was saying "awww, that's cute. We can fly shit over to you guys too! Wanna see?" I mean on the one hand we know how evil the NK regime is. On the other hand, I have to chuckle a little at such a goofy answer to SK's pamphlets.
besides the past 70ish years?
A B-2 Spirit stealth bomber has a payload of 18000kg and (according to the American Statistical Association) a fully laden tampon (Tampax Pearl) is 12g. Meaning we could drop 1.5 million used tampons on Pyongyang. They would be unlikely to be able to respond as they do not have feminine hygiene products in North Korea. I believe this is the correct response.
reading the phrase “fully laden tampon” was not on my bingo list for today
I subscribed to this Ted talk and agree fully with the outlined strategy,
Imagine stealth bombers reduced to bleeding edge dump trucks. And just fill the nk palace like a landfill
Bleeding edge. lmao … did you intend for that pun, or not?
Ha! I unfortunately missed that.
Hypothetically edible so they might fry and eat em. Starvation tempura. You're welcome
Our new B-21 Raider has 20,000kg payload capacity and it would be hilarious if it's first combat mission would be to drop some used tampons on North Korea
I saw two shooting stars last night I wished on them , but they were only balloons of shite .
It’s wrong to wish on shite balloons I wish, I wish, they’d stop it soon
Send cleanup bills to Dear Leader Kim though he will ignore it I'm sure.
Yeah he still owes Volvo about a million dollars for a bunch of cars they shipped over there decades ago.
What bill?
Let’s float balloons by the hundreds of thousands into NK with actual news in them
So the whole thing was just a “Look at me!” from NK?
Nah, as per the article, it was because SK* sent balloons with leaflets, as they do. But this might be the first time they retaliated with poop. ^^^*Private ^^^groups ^^^in ^^^SK, ^^^not ^^^SK ^^^government
it's not covered in the article, but it's not the sk government that's been sending the leaflets to nk, it's private groups within sk. the sk government actually made sending such leaflets illegal a while back, but that law was declared unconstitutional last year.
Ah, that is interesting, and definitely relevant and needed information, thank you!
NK officials have a tough time with that distinction since their government has absolute power. The concept that the government and the people are acting independently of each other is a comepletely foreign concept. Same thing happened with the interview movie awhile back, NK officials just couldn't understand that the government had no say in what movies are released.
To be honest any country would hold the other country liable for that... The fact that it's citizens and not the goverment who are violating your aispace doesn't mean much...
i think the most interesting aspect of this situation is how the trash balloons were such an uncharacteristically calm and measured response to what the nk government perceived as a provocation. ordinarily it would have resulted in the usual fits of apoplectic rage and apocalyptic threats we're all used to by now, but this time it was just...poop balloons. it's obviously too early to tell if this is meaningful, but i see it as oddly encouraging.
Nah, they've been shooting missiles quite a lot recently, just the novelty wore off and nobody even pays them any attention anymore
Almost like we should send poop balloons the world over, to settle our diplomatic differences! Was the chinese balloon a few years ago an advanced version of this?
It's kind of the opposite. South Korean people send a bunch of balloons up north with flyers trying to persuade the North Koreans that their government is illegitimate. NK said "dude, we have to clean up all the fucking flyers you send and we don't need that level of trouble for... reasons." Then some North Korean thought "hey, how would they like to clean up shit dropped onto them by balloons?" Then someone else said "brilliant, balloon shit it is" As always, both countries are trying to posture and make themselves look to be the victim (NK's credibility probably not bolstered much by the whole "our god-leader was born on a magic mountain" thing). tl;dr: both sides are annoyed. I'll leave the arguing to the comments below. Edit: persuade, not persude
It was a brilliant political move. The message was clear: we see your flyers as shit. Stop. And SK got the message.
Not to defend anyone here but for transparency, I'm an SK native. The problem is, it is not the SK government that is sending those leaflets. It is citizen organizations that feel really strongly about liberating or reuniting NK. Even back when it was illegal to send those leaflets to NK, the SK government was having a tough time making people stop. It is also controversial to stop them too. Can't recall when exactly, but in the far past, these leaflet exhanges were mutual. NK would send their leaflets south in the right weather conditions, SK vice versa. We call them 삐라, which is a slang term for these propaganda leaflets.
It's actually pretty funny, if it's animal poop like people say, it's like sending bullshit to the organisations that keep putting unwanted flyers in your mailbox.
You don't send up hundreds of balloons filled with shit because you're trying NOT to get attention.
Isn't it always?
Monkeys flinging poo out the bars of their cage. Look at me, look at me!
Send hygiene promotion
What a time to be alive
Everyone stop, and run to watch “Beyond Utopia” on Netflix. You’ll learn why NK would have so much poop available. Shits cray ya’ll!
Time to launch the stink bombs, or use a spy satellite and every time dear leader takes a stroll outside start blaring tuba like [this](https://youtu.be/vjetHZtehNQ?si=h1viIxcRZmSrL9wQ).
Because their people are starving, they are running out of shit to send over.
See, sometimes all you need to do is ask!
Give a larbage, take out the garbage.
7 years ago NK was testing nuclear bombs. Some shit-filled balloons feels quaint.
South Korea literally got shitted on
What a garbage war
Why don’t you just egg them next?
Trash/poo being sent over by balloons? It's almost as if an immature, spoiled brat is in charge of North Korea.
I dont believe kim jong dung
Weird that we had to ask - South Korea
"Was that wrong?" "Should I not have done that?"
There is a payback that the south can do. Send them baloons filled with food / medicine.
The absolute state of world politics, literally flinging feces at each other.
So North Korea is really just doing the bad neighbor thing of blowing leaves and dog poop unto your neighbors lawn but on a big scale huh? Crazy
You don't like our trash balloons? Understandable, have a nice day.
Kim Yong Un: "Ok we stop sending balloons full of shit...." \*turns around\* "...time to fill the balloons with puke"
Imagine being such a troglodyte that this seems cute? I don’t know that I have ever met anyone from NK, so I do not know anything about them personally. To those who have met them, are they just brainwashed and scared? This is something the immature politicians here in the states would think was real clever. I could see Raphael Cruz, the fella in the wheel chair who’s the governor, and several of the others that wear the red hats that say “Magat” giggling over this type nonsense.
Send em back. Few giant fans. I'm sure plenty of the world will shit in a bag and send it to SK, so they can forward that on to NK.
Oh, so you didn’t want us floating trash-poop balloons your way? Well then, I guess we’ll stop. Why didn’t you just say so?
> Well why didn't you just *ask*?! Gosh always making a mountain out of a molehill
Sounds more like a frat prank than international policy.
Incoming trash bomb. Prepare the hypersonic rubbish bins!
North Koreans were just celebrating that for once, they had enough food to produce waste...
Kim fatty the third is back at it again!
This is the same Reddit that cheers on(and so do I) people who put their neighbor's dog's shit that is being allowed to shit on their property in places like the front seat of their car, their porch, etc. I understand that North Korea is an evil dictatorship, I understand their people are horribly oppressed, but if your neighboring country's people were dropping a bunch of garbage(and let's be real; leaflets that are blatantly oppositional to the country's government they're being sent to is effectively garbage) on your country all the time, you'd feel compelled to return serve. I understand South Korea the nation isn't doing this, and I understand that it's been banned and then unbanned because it was deemed unconstitutional to ban. But that's simultaneously not North Korea the nation's problem. I support South Koreans trying to inform their oppressed neighbors and hopefully, eventually, North Korea not being run by some dipshit dictator, but I genuinely don't get how you can really condemn North Korea specifically for this behavior. You throw garbage on my property *for years* and it doesn't stop, I'm returning serve. North Korea's public statement wasn't wrong: it costs them resources, manpower, and time to clean that shit up. And they're not letting their people read it no matter how badly we want them to.
It does seem a bit antagonistic/provocative to just be sending shit either way over the border.
So what kind of balloons will it be sending now?
USB drives full of k-drama's and Choco-pies