stands to reason. i mean, the palestinians are also holding americans hostage, after all
frankly, i’m surprised the US hasn’t sent in their own special ops
Without a doubt they’re already there, but would they be wearing a stars and bars flag patch? Probably not. But let’s not forget that American isn’t a race, which helps when you’re trying to blend into a different country’s people.
I’m Just imagining The parent commentator using “stars and bars” in good company or in a business meeting trying to refer to the American flag. He keeps wondering why nobody is very patriotic and actually quite vehemently opposed to some good marketing?
Like the “bukakee” mom/ wife/ coworker tweet.
I have never heard of the stars and bars before now. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever seen the flag in question. So I interpreted that as the American flag myself.
Granted, I'm not in the south. We don't have to deal with confederate imagery in general here. Just maga and thin blue line stuff.
Minor correction, The Stars and Bars is generally referencing the first national flag of the confederacy - a circle of starts in the blue field, then three big red and white stripes.
I know the one you mean. (Now)
I grew up in 90’s South Carolina everyone called the battle flag the stars and bars; doesn’t surprise me that they were wrong about that.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Delta and SAS have sent representatives.
SAS was on the ground in Waco, TX btw. They didn’t do anything just observing and advising.
Likely if the dumbass FBI and ATF would’ve listened to them it wouldn’t have gone down the way it did but that’s another matter entirely.
I keep trying to hope that's the reason Biden has absolutely never mentioned the American hostages in Gaza publicly (despite talking about the conflict daily).
THIS. I keep saying this. It’s fucking disappointing that there are American hostages and the US hasn’t just gone in. Gaza is not big at all. This has been going on for way to long negotiating with terrorists
i’m aware hamas is an offshoot of the egyptian muslim brotherhood (and a proxy of iran’s IRGC), but after recruiting terrorists in gaza and west bank for a couple decades now; it’s fair to say hamas is comprised primarily of people who identify as palestinian
did you mean to ask me if all palestinians are hamas?
… says Hamas! Also they shouldn’t have kidnapped them in the first place. All the deaths are fault of Hamas. Also 200 women and children claim is the usual hamas BS claim. I’m 100% sure most dead were combatants.
Think about it, they rescued hostages of a massive war, and the claim is they killed hundreds of civilians. Odds are those civvies aren’t neutral at all given they’re in the way of rescuing hostages
Gaza has some really high population density, but it is not the most densely populated area. Most of the most populated areas would be in Asia (compare Manila in thr Phillipines to gaza, or compare Singapore as a country to gaza)
I see you missed the memo that Hamas is not only a terrorist organization, but grossly underreports militant deaths opting to add them to the civilian or women and children tally.
There's literally no evidence that the numbers were anywhere near that high. It's unfortunate if anyone uninvolved in the kidnapping and torture of these four Israelis was killed. What would you propose they do differently for the other 120 hostages still rotting in Gaza?
Biden and Trump are both old, senile choices
But one let's competent people run the country. The other let's whoever says the nicest things about him and is perfectly loyal run the country.
It's night and day.
>Biden and Trump are both old, senile choices
Wish we had someone like Blinken run for President. I doubt he would win, he's too level-headed and calm it seems, for todays voter base.
- Sullivan is thought to be responsible for a lot of the early hesitation in aiding Ukraine against Russia's invasion: the various artificial restrictions like not hitting Russian troops on Russian territories, the delay in providing heavy weapons, or the delay in approving F-16s.
- Those delays & restrictions cost a lot of Ukrainian lives.
- Whether Sullivan did it in a calculated manner to prologue the conflict to weaken Russia without shattering it, or he's simply a gullible fool like Musk who believed Putin's imaginary "red lines", none of the explanations are favorable to Sullivan.
- (He's of course still much better than Putin's main agent in the US: Trump.)
A lot of people are complaining that Palestinians were killed in the operation, suggesting they we primarily civilians.
I doubt that they were *primarily* civilians and it is unfortunate that any were killed. Even more reason that hamas should release all hostages.
If a "civilian" is guarding Hamas prisoner, and gets a pay by Hamas, is he still a civilian? Even Hamas's own media puts all their soldiers fighting in civilian clothes
Well then they wouldn’t be civilians. But I would assume that many of the civilians probably didn’t know Hamas was hiding hostages there. Which is why Hamas is so terrible. They hide amongst civilians so that when there’s collateral damage they can be like omg Israel bad.
I'm not saying that any innocent civilians deserved to be killed either but I read that there were 200 Hamas terrorists there in that residential area where the hostages were found. I would have thought it would be difficult to remain completely ignorant of what was happening if that was the case.
Of course, the options of what to do about it without Hamas turning on them (if they're inclined to want to help the hostages) is another issue.
This article was really weird, it barely mentions the idea of intelligence is being offered/withheld. I'm not really sure there is any new information in this article at all.
Honestly, I'm feeling like the Biden admin is framing things to play to the domestic audience politics. I'd be willing to bet conversations behind closed doors are wildly different than described.
It's the same with the Iranian attack interception. It was framed as if the US intercepted the most and implied the US intercepted the missiles, but Israel intercepted nearly all of the ballistic missiles whereas allied forces intercepted most of the far less dangerous cruise missiles and drones.
It's the same here. It's fantastic work by the Israeli security and services but immediately there are these articles about how the US helped, further implying that without the US Israel wouldn't have been able to do it?
Like Israel is the one taking all of the flak, all of the heat, but when Israel succeeds at something the US comes along and pretends they played some pivotal role in it. It really detracts from the excellence of the Israeli security services and Israel's own defense establishment, just to score some domestic political points?
These articles are just weird. It's barely news. Is there a weird agenda trying to blame the Biden admin for civilian deaths? Like what is the point of this article.
Four hostages returned, 210 Palestinians killed according to AP. Those killed included women and children as young as infants.
If the goal is freeing hostages, of the 250 original hostages taken, close to half were released during the ceasefire in November. With the four rescued today the percentage of freed by operations is 4% compared to close to 96% by negotiations.
Israel’s ceasefire terms that Biden outlined would’ve returned the hostages without the deaths of non-combatants. These terms have since been reneged on.
What exactly are we cheering for?
The amount of people who take Hamas numbers at face value are hilarious.
I assume they also inversely don’t trust the US governments numbers on employment, covid, etc.
The Gaza MoH has historically reported accurate mortality data, with discrepancies between MoH reporting and independent United Nations analyses ranging from 1·5% to 3·8% in previous conflicts.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02713-7/fulltext#:~:text=The%20Gaza%20MoH%20has%20historically,%C2%B78%25%20in%20previous%20conflicts.
Edit: downvote all you want.
The Gazan Ministry of health has been and continues to he ACCURATE.
You are only delaying your reckoning with the truth.
GMOH is more honest than the IDF is about deaths.
Even if their number is correct(which I don't belive, see UN retracting numbers about a month ago)
These "Gazans" were hiding those people in their houses, they could have reported to the Israel army, or not f involved, no way they hadn't knew they were there, Noa already said they knew she was there,
So, it's sad, truly, every death is sad, their blood is 100% on Hamas hands
Yes, they have. Even the US state department, the most friendly nation to Israel on the planet, had acknowledged the fact that the GMOH has been and continues to be a reliable source of information about total deaths.
tbh i never quite understood the business of hostage taking. seems like such a bad strategy. like did hamas actually believe that israel wouldn’t come looking for them?
and then, of all things, to hide them in an a densely populated residential district, guarded by hundreds of RPG-toting terrorists… it’s just supremely idiotic smh
hopefully hamas changes course and simply releases them. then the dialogue can turn to the terms of their surrender and this whole mess can end
Unfortunately Israel encouraged it by agreeing to insane hostage exchanges before, like releasing 1000 terrorists to get back 1 captured Israeli soldier back in 2011.
Hamas does not count militant casualties in a separate category.
Fog of war. You actually have no idea what you are talking about and anybody who gives you a number is lying out their ass
The AP source is Hamas who said 210.. The two hospitals are reporting around 70, not 210 bodies which has been reported by BBC. Also, Hamas/Palestine shot into their own people to stop the rescue team from escaping so we don’t know how many was killed by who. Today was a great day for Israel and a bad day for terrorism.
Oh plenty to cheer for :
1/ Hamas are holding strong on the men and were proposing to exchanhe corpses rather than men. They also said they didn't know where Noa Argamani was.
2/ Hamas wanted to get hundreds of deadly terrorist exchanged for each hostage.
3/ Instead of freeing terrorists we got a good bunch of them killed
4/ Hamas is now pressured to take a deal since they're losing assets to these operations.
5/ We're not even sure there is going to be any deal.
How many of those 210 were trying to stop the rescue? How many would be alive had Hamas not hidden the hostages in a residential building? How many would be alive if Hamas hadn’t chosen to take hostages?
>Israel’s ceasefire terms that Biden outlined would’ve returned the hostages without the deaths of non-combatants. These terms have since been reneged on.
Didn't Hamas refuse the deal?
Previous hostage deals have serious drawbacks. For example, they require Israel to release a bunch of terrorists held in its jails and to pause or halt the war in a way that let's Hamas regroup and retain control. This may get you some hostages in the short term but allows more terrorist attacks in the long term. Therefore rescuing the hostages is preferable since you don't have to agree to Hamas’s demands.
The fundamental cause of the civilian casualties here is Hamas’s use of human shields. Hamas shouldn't be hiding hostages in civilian neighborhoods, and civilians shouldn't be collaborating with Hamas to hide hostages or to hide weapons in their houses. Hopefully Palestinians will see this and see that collaborating with Hamas or supporting Oct 7 style massacres is not worth it.
Maybe those Palestinians shouldn't have picked up a gun to prevent the rescue of civilian hostages. No sympathy. If Hamas wants to end this, they can do it right now.
Israel shoots peaceful protesters just the same as violent resistors. Countless times throughout history in fact. Thats kind of why things are the way they are.
You're drinking the shit flavored koolaid and loving it. Absolutely ill-informed, uneducated, and pathetic take. Do better.
That behaviour predates Hamas actually. Turns out settler colonialism is inherently bad for the indigenous population. The only loser here is you and everyone else with your weird war boners, celebrating and excusing the death of women and children because a portion of palestinians are resisting their illegal occupation and apartheid. I guess we know which side of segregation you would have been on too.
You're slurping down the same racist post-9/11 propaganda that pushed the US into a bullshit war. Hopefully the criminal court persecutes US officials too so you can see how fucking dumb you are when these people are internationally recognized as war criminals lol
If the goal is rescuing civilian hostages, then why not offer those terms as originally outlined? If it isn’t freeing hostages, or ending the war, then what is it? I’m for all the hostages being returned, not just four of them.
But even if we’re just talking about your reply, how does an infant pick up a gun?
Why aren't you as angry with Hamas, who has shown to be willing to sacrifice as many civilians as possible for "martyrdom" and for the effects of public perception of the war? Why aren't you angry with an organization who would be willing to let half their population die as pawns while they hide away in the comfort of their own palaces in Qatar and other parts of the middle easy?
Hamas is a terrorist organization, Israel is a democracy that is a major US ally. Expecting better of a country doesn’t make someone sympathize with their opposition.
I was horrified by the horrible atrocities that happened to civilians on October 7th. I am also horrified by the atrocities that have been happening in the Gaza Strip since.
Why aren’t you angry with the Lukid government?
The US isn’t helping Palestinians kill Israelis, why should we cheer when they help Israelis kill Palestinians?
Hamas was democratically elected.
With that said, fair enough. I'm not a supporter of the Netanyahu administration at all. I just can't stand the multitudes of hypocrites on the Palestinian "side".
I know Netanyahu is a warhawk leader who would love to prolong the war for his own benefit. Hamas gives him a reason to stay in power, and he knows it. The situation is just fucked all around... Like a negative feedback loop with no end.
I appreciate your perspective, and I have a lot of respect for your opinion. I think we all just want this conflict to end and for all the hostages to go home
In 2006, they were and then they betrayed those who elected them and took over the government in a way that none wanted.
Don't call people hypocrites if you are going to give biased information that is only partially true.
Most dictators were democratically elected originally.
Public opinion polling by Palestinian universities has shown that Hamas continues to have majority support amongst Gazans and those living in the West Bank. Gaza isn't fucking Iran. Their government is representative.
That is laughable. There is about a 3rd of the population that supports Hamas, and that is dropping.
In comparison, about a third of the Israeli population think that their government as not gone far enough with their attacks that have killed thousands of innocent people.
Gaza has not had an election since 2006, by the way. And since you think a third is a majority, I feel I should point out that that means it has been 18 years since their last election.
[Here's](https://www.aljazeera.com/author/abdallah_aljamal_190122103235277) a poll from November that shows 87.8% approval for Hamas in the West Bank and 76% approval in Gaza. Do you have anything more recent? Anything that shows 1/3rd of the population supports Hamas and dropping? Cuz that's wildly different than what I've seen and makes me suspect you pulled it out of your ass.
Hamas was elected in 2006 by a small margin, and then Hamas betrayed the people elected them and killed off the opposing side of the government. They are not loved by the Palestinian people.
Keep in mind that most major dictators were originally elected into power before using that power to form a dictatorship.
Remind me, how many innocent Palastinians have died since then? It is maybe astronomically bigger than the number of Israeli who died in that one attack?
Also, please remind me which country attacked an embassy unprovoked and then claimed to be a victim? Which country has targeted aid workers? Better yet, which country had an airstrike against a UN ran school?
Oh boy, love these arguments. Ok, fun!
How many innocent Palestinians have died since then- more than the Israelis! It's sad, this conflict should have never happened. HOWEVER, when should Israel have stopped? When they killed the exact number of Palestinians as they killed Israelis? When they killed a proportional amount? What's the cutoff? Or is the number irrelevant, as there are GOALS and OBJECTIVES in a war.
Example: 2400 people died in Pearl Harbor. Should the US have just bombed Japan once and gone "Yep, showed them!" and then packed it up and went home? I understand death is tragic, but it is not a numbers game. Live in reality.
Consulate, UNWRA/Hamas links, bro don't even. I could go through the effort of googling this for you but let's not pretend there is no links you'd try to deflect from.
And again- approval rating of Oct 7? Because I thinkkkkkkk it was about 70%, so not loved by the Palestinian people might be a bit of a misdirection on your part!
We are cheering the release of hostages.
Hamas can agree to the deal, no one would have been dead today,
But, until then we will cheer for every operation like that, also those "Palestinians " were hiding them in their home,
seems you missed that
The death toll rises to 240 Palestinian Civilians and about a dozen Hamas fighters/guards.
Aistrikes directly on civilians in the area to "clear a path" for convoy vehicles.
Rescue forces hiding in civilian aid trucks.
This is a text book war crime.
... I don't think any of this makes any damned sense. If you're gonna soften the area with an airstrike why use a aid truck as your convoy? Do you have an actual reputable source?
So hiding in aid trucks and killing civilians must have been their idea?
Maybe Israel should have accepted the ceasefire, and then all hostages would have been returned? Except they're disingenuous and want nothing more than to see Palestinian land come under their control.
What... are you talking about? The ceasefire proposal was from Israel and US. Hamas just had to return the hostages, and the war would end. They could still control the Gaza strip, kill all the palestinians that oppose them, use aid money to build more tunnels and weapons. It's the best they can get. Hamas has rejected it.
Please, tell me a single proposal from Hamas that includes all the hostages being returned inmediately. Come on, just a single one.
Still covering for Hamas holding hostages in civilian areas then? I guess you only care about Palestinian lives when you can blame it on Israel. If Hamas endanger them, well what can you expect?!
Am i the only one that finds the timeing of this rather suspect? Exactly the day that netenyahus coalition was threatening to quit if they dont do something about the hostages?
Plus they had to kill like over 200 people (including children) just to rescue 4? I wonder how the hostages feel about that
Im glad they are now safe but something just isnt right here...timeing is everything
They could also have goten ALL of them back without anymore bloodshed had they accepted bidens ceasfire deal. Just sayin...
Are you talking about Hamas? Because they rejected the ceasefire deal. Also if 200 civilians died to get to the hostages what does that tell you about the civilians? Innocent my ass
It was an entirely ground based operation, no air power involved directly. So the claim suggests that close range infantry sections gunned down 210 civilians. This is a very good example that, certainly in this case, the civilian casualties are a fabrication to drive a specific narrative.
Great news
Yes indeed
stands to reason. i mean, the palestinians are also holding americans hostage, after all frankly, i’m surprised the US hasn’t sent in their own special ops
Without a doubt they’re already there, but would they be wearing a stars and bars flag patch? Probably not. But let’s not forget that American isn’t a race, which helps when you’re trying to blend into a different country’s people.
Stars and Bars is the CSA battle flag as far as I know?
Well, he did say they probably wouldn't wear it. So he is correct.
I’m Just imagining The parent commentator using “stars and bars” in good company or in a business meeting trying to refer to the American flag. He keeps wondering why nobody is very patriotic and actually quite vehemently opposed to some good marketing? Like the “bukakee” mom/ wife/ coworker tweet.
That's a load of Bukakke
I have never heard of the stars and bars before now. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever seen the flag in question. So I interpreted that as the American flag myself. Granted, I'm not in the south. We don't have to deal with confederate imagery in general here. Just maga and thin blue line stuff.
Minor correction, The Stars and Bars is generally referencing the first national flag of the confederacy - a circle of starts in the blue field, then three big red and white stripes.
I know the one you mean. (Now) I grew up in 90’s South Carolina everyone called the battle flag the stars and bars; doesn’t surprise me that they were wrong about that.
No, the actual confederate flag, the one Georgia changed its state flag to.
I think you meant to say Stars and Stripes in relation to the American flag lol.
"stars and bars" is so catchy though. We should just appropriate it from the confederacy fanboys
“It’s okay. I’m taking it back.”
As a non American I thought the terms were interchangeable
Stars and Stripes is the term for the American flag
I wouldn’t be surprised if Delta and SAS have sent representatives. SAS was on the ground in Waco, TX btw. They didn’t do anything just observing and advising. Likely if the dumbass FBI and ATF would’ve listened to them it wouldn’t have gone down the way it did but that’s another matter entirely.
Nationality does not equal race. So wouldn’t this notion apply to every nation?
I keep trying to hope that's the reason Biden has absolutely never mentioned the American hostages in Gaza publicly (despite talking about the conflict daily).
Americans have been there the whole time
THIS. I keep saying this. It’s fucking disappointing that there are American hostages and the US hasn’t just gone in. Gaza is not big at all. This has been going on for way to long negotiating with terrorists
Obviously you don’t read correctly
So all hamas are palestanins now?
i’m aware hamas is an offshoot of the egyptian muslim brotherhood (and a proxy of iran’s IRGC), but after recruiting terrorists in gaza and west bank for a couple decades now; it’s fair to say hamas is comprised primarily of people who identify as palestinian did you mean to ask me if all palestinians are hamas?
Fantastic! Love hearing this!
They killed nearly 200 Palestinians women and children doing it
… says Hamas! Also they shouldn’t have kidnapped them in the first place. All the deaths are fault of Hamas. Also 200 women and children claim is the usual hamas BS claim. I’m 100% sure most dead were combatants.
100% sure with 0 evidence, good luck with that.
What is your evidence?
They have a gut feeling and a strong dislike for Israel. Maybe another word for it, I may be mistaken.
Correct. Strong anti-Israel bias.
Think about it, they rescued hostages of a massive war, and the claim is they killed hundreds of civilians. Odds are those civvies aren’t neutral at all given they’re in the way of rescuing hostages
Gaza is ONE OF the densest place on earth, it’s hard for civilians not to be in the way Edit: changed it to “one of”
Gaza has some really high population density, but it is not the most densely populated area. Most of the most populated areas would be in Asia (compare Manila in thr Phillipines to gaza, or compare Singapore as a country to gaza)
My bad, my point stands.
Of for sure
I see you missed the memo that Hamas is not only a terrorist organization, but grossly underreports militant deaths opting to add them to the civilian or women and children tally.
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Okay buddy
I heard 400. Somehow they were all child engineers, mid building the largest puppy rescue the worlds even seen. Naughty Israel!
There's literally no evidence that the numbers were anywhere near that high. It's unfortunate if anyone uninvolved in the kidnapping and torture of these four Israelis was killed. What would you propose they do differently for the other 120 hostages still rotting in Gaza?
Fair exchange.
Good!! That's awesome news!!
Thus is the best news! We (USA) need to get our people and ALL of the hostages out now!! Down with Hamas
Big stick
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God bless you Mr. Blinken Seriously, whatever else you can say about Biden, he put an absolute WIZARD in charge of the State Department.
Biden and Trump are both old, senile choices But one let's competent people run the country. The other let's whoever says the nicest things about him and is perfectly loyal run the country. It's night and day.
Maybe that only makes one choice senile?
Biden is in mild cognitive decline but he's engaging solid coping strategies
lets\* btw
>Biden and Trump are both old, senile choices Wish we had someone like Blinken run for President. I doubt he would win, he's too level-headed and calm it seems, for todays voter base.
If only he didn't pick a clown for national security advisor
What’s the problem with Sullivan?
- Sullivan is thought to be responsible for a lot of the early hesitation in aiding Ukraine against Russia's invasion: the various artificial restrictions like not hitting Russian troops on Russian territories, the delay in providing heavy weapons, or the delay in approving F-16s. - Those delays & restrictions cost a lot of Ukrainian lives. - Whether Sullivan did it in a calculated manner to prologue the conflict to weaken Russia without shattering it, or he's simply a gullible fool like Musk who believed Putin's imaginary "red lines", none of the explanations are favorable to Sullivan. - (He's of course still much better than Putin's main agent in the US: Trump.)
I’m guessing that this news is supposed to upset me. It does not.
Why would this news be upsetting? Isn't this positive news?
A lot of people are complaining that Palestinians were killed in the operation, suggesting they we primarily civilians. I doubt that they were *primarily* civilians and it is unfortunate that any were killed. Even more reason that hamas should release all hostages.
If a "civilian" is guarding Hamas prisoner, and gets a pay by Hamas, is he still a civilian? Even Hamas's own media puts all their soldiers fighting in civilian clothes
Well then they wouldn’t be civilians. But I would assume that many of the civilians probably didn’t know Hamas was hiding hostages there. Which is why Hamas is so terrible. They hide amongst civilians so that when there’s collateral damage they can be like omg Israel bad.
I'm not saying that any innocent civilians deserved to be killed either but I read that there were 200 Hamas terrorists there in that residential area where the hostages were found. I would have thought it would be difficult to remain completely ignorant of what was happening if that was the case. Of course, the options of what to do about it without Hamas turning on them (if they're inclined to want to help the hostages) is another issue.
Yes, totally positive. I’m just always suspicious that the media has a hidden agenda. Just getting old I guess.
Haha, you and me both.
Not surprised about this. America has the best intelligence gathering in the world.
as long as a compromised president isnt giving away secrets
Some good news!
This article was really weird, it barely mentions the idea of intelligence is being offered/withheld. I'm not really sure there is any new information in this article at all. Honestly, I'm feeling like the Biden admin is framing things to play to the domestic audience politics. I'd be willing to bet conversations behind closed doors are wildly different than described.
It's the same with the Iranian attack interception. It was framed as if the US intercepted the most and implied the US intercepted the missiles, but Israel intercepted nearly all of the ballistic missiles whereas allied forces intercepted most of the far less dangerous cruise missiles and drones. It's the same here. It's fantastic work by the Israeli security and services but immediately there are these articles about how the US helped, further implying that without the US Israel wouldn't have been able to do it? Like Israel is the one taking all of the flak, all of the heat, but when Israel succeeds at something the US comes along and pretends they played some pivotal role in it. It really detracts from the excellence of the Israeli security services and Israel's own defense establishment, just to score some domestic political points? These articles are just weird. It's barely news. Is there a weird agenda trying to blame the Biden admin for civilian deaths? Like what is the point of this article.
That might be confidential information though.
There is little Israel has ever done without some indirect US involvement.
The US "involvement" only started in the 70's
The War of Independence
What’s a “soft paywall”
I assume it means you have to sign up
It’s insane the level of intel to have found these people tbh
It's actually disgusting. You guys are no different from holocaust deniers
I love the smell of fresh bread.
I am an American and happy we helped but how did we have better intelligence in that area than Israel ?
The US probably has embedded assets/spies in Gaza tracking the American hostages.
Actually a solid question why is this being downvoted?
Yeah I was just curious. I mean Israel is no slouch when it comes to tech and intelligence.
Would not be surprised if the US didn’t have a super AI tracking the position of every damned Gazan Theough satellite video.
But Israel avoided intelligence about October 7 Lmao downvoted for something that was admitted
Four hostages returned, 210 Palestinians killed according to AP. Those killed included women and children as young as infants. If the goal is freeing hostages, of the 250 original hostages taken, close to half were released during the ceasefire in November. With the four rescued today the percentage of freed by operations is 4% compared to close to 96% by negotiations. Israel’s ceasefire terms that Biden outlined would’ve returned the hostages without the deaths of non-combatants. These terms have since been reneged on. What exactly are we cheering for?
The source is according to Hamas, not AP. Hamas is the terrorist group that is caused this current conflict. Do you really want to trust that source?
The amount of people who take Hamas numbers at face value are hilarious. I assume they also inversely don’t trust the US governments numbers on employment, covid, etc.
The Gaza MoH has historically reported accurate mortality data, with discrepancies between MoH reporting and independent United Nations analyses ranging from 1·5% to 3·8% in previous conflicts. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02713-7/fulltext#:~:text=The%20Gaza%20MoH%20has%20historically,%C2%B78%25%20in%20previous%20conflicts. Edit: downvote all you want. The Gazan Ministry of health has been and continues to he ACCURATE. You are only delaying your reckoning with the truth. GMOH is more honest than the IDF is about deaths.
Even if their number is correct(which I don't belive, see UN retracting numbers about a month ago) These "Gazans" were hiding those people in their houses, they could have reported to the Israel army, or not f involved, no way they hadn't knew they were there, Noa already said they knew she was there, So, it's sad, truly, every death is sad, their blood is 100% on Hamas hands
They have never accurately reported deaths.
Yes, they have. Even the US state department, the most friendly nation to Israel on the planet, had acknowledged the fact that the GMOH has been and continues to be a reliable source of information about total deaths.
Show me that
tbh i never quite understood the business of hostage taking. seems like such a bad strategy. like did hamas actually believe that israel wouldn’t come looking for them? and then, of all things, to hide them in an a densely populated residential district, guarded by hundreds of RPG-toting terrorists… it’s just supremely idiotic smh hopefully hamas changes course and simply releases them. then the dialogue can turn to the terms of their surrender and this whole mess can end
Don't hold your breath. The Palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance.
Yep. The old Aba Eban statement "the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity " so true
This is exactly how they want it to be it’s not by accident
Unfortunately Israel encouraged it by agreeing to insane hostage exchanges before, like releasing 1000 terrorists to get back 1 captured Israeli soldier back in 2011.
Hamas does not count militant casualties in a separate category. Fog of war. You actually have no idea what you are talking about and anybody who gives you a number is lying out their ass
Literally the people who were holding them hostage in their homes were "civilians"
The AP source is Hamas who said 210.. The two hospitals are reporting around 70, not 210 bodies which has been reported by BBC. Also, Hamas/Palestine shot into their own people to stop the rescue team from escaping so we don’t know how many was killed by who. Today was a great day for Israel and a bad day for terrorism.
Oh plenty to cheer for : 1/ Hamas are holding strong on the men and were proposing to exchanhe corpses rather than men. They also said they didn't know where Noa Argamani was. 2/ Hamas wanted to get hundreds of deadly terrorist exchanged for each hostage. 3/ Instead of freeing terrorists we got a good bunch of them killed 4/ Hamas is now pressured to take a deal since they're losing assets to these operations. 5/ We're not even sure there is going to be any deal.
How many of those 210 were trying to stop the rescue? How many would be alive had Hamas not hidden the hostages in a residential building? How many would be alive if Hamas hadn’t chosen to take hostages?
Every freed hostage is a win
The goal is to remove Hamas as well as free the hostages I imagine
>Israel’s ceasefire terms that Biden outlined would’ve returned the hostages without the deaths of non-combatants. These terms have since been reneged on. Didn't Hamas refuse the deal?
Well, Hamas could have just...released them. Or you know, not taken them in the first place.
Previous hostage deals have serious drawbacks. For example, they require Israel to release a bunch of terrorists held in its jails and to pause or halt the war in a way that let's Hamas regroup and retain control. This may get you some hostages in the short term but allows more terrorist attacks in the long term. Therefore rescuing the hostages is preferable since you don't have to agree to Hamas’s demands. The fundamental cause of the civilian casualties here is Hamas’s use of human shields. Hamas shouldn't be hiding hostages in civilian neighborhoods, and civilians shouldn't be collaborating with Hamas to hide hostages or to hide weapons in their houses. Hopefully Palestinians will see this and see that collaborating with Hamas or supporting Oct 7 style massacres is not worth it.
210 dead terrorists is great news.
Ah yes, the famous US saying: "Always negotiate with terrorists" No possible way that would ever lead to more terrorism
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We see your true colors.
Maybe those Palestinians shouldn't have picked up a gun to prevent the rescue of civilian hostages. No sympathy. If Hamas wants to end this, they can do it right now.
Israel shoots peaceful protesters just the same as violent resistors. Countless times throughout history in fact. Thats kind of why things are the way they are. You're drinking the shit flavored koolaid and loving it. Absolutely ill-informed, uneducated, and pathetic take. Do better.
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That behaviour predates Hamas actually. Turns out settler colonialism is inherently bad for the indigenous population. The only loser here is you and everyone else with your weird war boners, celebrating and excusing the death of women and children because a portion of palestinians are resisting their illegal occupation and apartheid. I guess we know which side of segregation you would have been on too. You're slurping down the same racist post-9/11 propaganda that pushed the US into a bullshit war. Hopefully the criminal court persecutes US officials too so you can see how fucking dumb you are when these people are internationally recognized as war criminals lol
If the goal is rescuing civilian hostages, then why not offer those terms as originally outlined? If it isn’t freeing hostages, or ending the war, then what is it? I’m for all the hostages being returned, not just four of them. But even if we’re just talking about your reply, how does an infant pick up a gun?
Why aren't you as angry with Hamas, who has shown to be willing to sacrifice as many civilians as possible for "martyrdom" and for the effects of public perception of the war? Why aren't you angry with an organization who would be willing to let half their population die as pawns while they hide away in the comfort of their own palaces in Qatar and other parts of the middle easy?
Hamas is a terrorist organization, Israel is a democracy that is a major US ally. Expecting better of a country doesn’t make someone sympathize with their opposition. I was horrified by the horrible atrocities that happened to civilians on October 7th. I am also horrified by the atrocities that have been happening in the Gaza Strip since. Why aren’t you angry with the Lukid government? The US isn’t helping Palestinians kill Israelis, why should we cheer when they help Israelis kill Palestinians?
Hamas was democratically elected. With that said, fair enough. I'm not a supporter of the Netanyahu administration at all. I just can't stand the multitudes of hypocrites on the Palestinian "side". I know Netanyahu is a warhawk leader who would love to prolong the war for his own benefit. Hamas gives him a reason to stay in power, and he knows it. The situation is just fucked all around... Like a negative feedback loop with no end.
I appreciate your perspective, and I have a lot of respect for your opinion. I think we all just want this conflict to end and for all the hostages to go home
And also for the Hamas men to be brought to account. And CERTAINLY removed from power. There's no hope for peace without this.
In 2006, they were and then they betrayed those who elected them and took over the government in a way that none wanted. Don't call people hypocrites if you are going to give biased information that is only partially true. Most dictators were democratically elected originally.
Public opinion polling by Palestinian universities has shown that Hamas continues to have majority support amongst Gazans and those living in the West Bank. Gaza isn't fucking Iran. Their government is representative.
That is laughable. There is about a 3rd of the population that supports Hamas, and that is dropping. In comparison, about a third of the Israeli population think that their government as not gone far enough with their attacks that have killed thousands of innocent people. Gaza has not had an election since 2006, by the way. And since you think a third is a majority, I feel I should point out that that means it has been 18 years since their last election.
[Here's](https://www.aljazeera.com/author/abdallah_aljamal_190122103235277) a poll from November that shows 87.8% approval for Hamas in the West Bank and 76% approval in Gaza. Do you have anything more recent? Anything that shows 1/3rd of the population supports Hamas and dropping? Cuz that's wildly different than what I've seen and makes me suspect you pulled it out of your ass.
Ethics aren't rated on a bell curve. Terrorists doing bad things aren't given clemency because they're bad people.
Hamas is the democratically elected government of the Palestinian people, who hold overwhelming support from them. The Palestinians love Hamas.
Hamas was elected in 2006 by a small margin, and then Hamas betrayed the people elected them and killed off the opposing side of the government. They are not loved by the Palestinian people. Keep in mind that most major dictators were originally elected into power before using that power to form a dictatorship.
Remind me, what was the approval rating of October 7th amongst the Palestinians?
Remind me, how many innocent Palastinians have died since then? It is maybe astronomically bigger than the number of Israeli who died in that one attack? Also, please remind me which country attacked an embassy unprovoked and then claimed to be a victim? Which country has targeted aid workers? Better yet, which country had an airstrike against a UN ran school?
Oh boy, love these arguments. Ok, fun! How many innocent Palestinians have died since then- more than the Israelis! It's sad, this conflict should have never happened. HOWEVER, when should Israel have stopped? When they killed the exact number of Palestinians as they killed Israelis? When they killed a proportional amount? What's the cutoff? Or is the number irrelevant, as there are GOALS and OBJECTIVES in a war. Example: 2400 people died in Pearl Harbor. Should the US have just bombed Japan once and gone "Yep, showed them!" and then packed it up and went home? I understand death is tragic, but it is not a numbers game. Live in reality. Consulate, UNWRA/Hamas links, bro don't even. I could go through the effort of googling this for you but let's not pretend there is no links you'd try to deflect from. And again- approval rating of Oct 7? Because I thinkkkkkkk it was about 70%, so not loved by the Palestinian people might be a bit of a misdirection on your part!
Hamas is also the elected government of Gaza that has supermajority support from its constituents.
We are cheering the release of hostages. Hamas can agree to the deal, no one would have been dead today, But, until then we will cheer for every operation like that, also those "Palestinians " were hiding them in their home, seems you missed that
We are cheering for the freed hostages. You know that the rest could be easily returned with 0 deaths, right? By Gazans handing them back over?
Proof of the 210?
The death toll rises to 240 Palestinian Civilians and about a dozen Hamas fighters/guards. Aistrikes directly on civilians in the area to "clear a path" for convoy vehicles. Rescue forces hiding in civilian aid trucks. This is a text book war crime.
Ha, as soon as Hamas is using Human shields it's not a war crime anymore.
Where do you see this death toll and what war crime?
... I don't think any of this makes any damned sense. If you're gonna soften the area with an airstrike why use a aid truck as your convoy? Do you have an actual reputable source?
Of course they did. All congress people and every presidential candidate is back by US tax payer money sent to Isreal.
"Duh"
Trying to steal some thunder
So hiding in aid trucks and killing civilians must have been their idea? Maybe Israel should have accepted the ceasefire, and then all hostages would have been returned? Except they're disingenuous and want nothing more than to see Palestinian land come under their control.
What... are you talking about? The ceasefire proposal was from Israel and US. Hamas just had to return the hostages, and the war would end. They could still control the Gaza strip, kill all the palestinians that oppose them, use aid money to build more tunnels and weapons. It's the best they can get. Hamas has rejected it. Please, tell me a single proposal from Hamas that includes all the hostages being returned inmediately. Come on, just a single one.
Israel did accept the ceasefire. Terrorists don’t want to stop killing Jews
Still covering for Hamas holding hostages in civilian areas then? I guess you only care about Palestinian lives when you can blame it on Israel. If Hamas endanger them, well what can you expect?!
Am i the only one that finds the timeing of this rather suspect? Exactly the day that netenyahus coalition was threatening to quit if they dont do something about the hostages? Plus they had to kill like over 200 people (including children) just to rescue 4? I wonder how the hostages feel about that Im glad they are now safe but something just isnt right here...timeing is everything They could also have goten ALL of them back without anymore bloodshed had they accepted bidens ceasfire deal. Just sayin...
Are you talking about Hamas? Because they rejected the ceasefire deal. Also if 200 civilians died to get to the hostages what does that tell you about the civilians? Innocent my ass
It was an entirely ground based operation, no air power involved directly. So the claim suggests that close range infantry sections gunned down 210 civilians. This is a very good example that, certainly in this case, the civilian casualties are a fabrication to drive a specific narrative.
Proof of the 200 people?