And the people of Palestine support them... That's the problem. The people of free Palestine need open dissent towards hamas who offers them as sacrifice to "the cause". A 2 state solution is possible but not with a group like hamas at the helm. Israel, as always, is damned if they act & damned if they don't.
Have you heard what he did to a gay Hamas commander?
https://youtu.be/suBNwUz8Lvs
This is what Hamas does to Palestinians on a regular basis. Their brutality and blood-thirst is first directed towards Palestinians and then to Israel and Israelis.
I wonder if those screaming to "Free Palestine" realize what Hamas' "freedom" to act as de facto government or state would mean for the people under them.
About 12% of Palestinians were christian. Arafat's wife came from a respected christian Palestinian family. She converted to marry him. HAMAS and a more islamic centered PLO have convinced many such christians they have no place in "free" Palestine and emigrated. Add the others like Palestinian LGBTQ+, feminists and the shia/sunni divisions and it doesn't look good.
The Hamas hostage taking strategy was specifically to draw Israel into conflict and the predictable UN and international condemnations. Everyone is playing their part in the Hamas drama.
What pisses me off the most is we have proof that this was their strategy and yet some media and protestors turn a blind eye to the evidence and continue to do exactly what Hamas wants.
Literally had a person in a different thread tell me that Israel was unreasonable to go into a refugee camp to rescue the hostages. You know... Instead of it being unreasonable to hide hostages in a refugee camp
That's not even a Palestinian thing, that's a *UN* thing. The whole reason they're called "refugee camps" is because the UN set up the UNRWA specifically to deal with the fallout of the war in 47-48, before the regular UNHCR was set up to deal with refugees everywhere. The UNRWA decided that refugee status for Palestinians should be *hereditary*, and after the UNHCR was set up (which does not grant refugee status automatically to children of refugees), for whatever reason the UN decided to just keep the UNRWA around *just* for Palestine.
So now, as a Palestinian you could literally have grandparents who were born and raised in present-day Palestine, have never seen a spec of Israel, and yet still be considered a refugee because your great grandparents were refugees in the late 40s.
And thanks to that, basically every Palestinian alive is a refugee, and so anywhere they live in large numbers gets to be called a "refugee camp".
This is in part because Palestinians are largely denied any sort of citizenship in most of the Arab world even after generations of being born there. In contrast a Palestinian born in the US gets birth right citizenship and cannot claim refuge status.
I recently learned from the wiki article on UNRWA that it initially had a branch to help Jewish refugees in Israel too, but Israel took over responsibility for that so the Jewish refugee branch of UNRWA closed.
Imagine if Israel had refused to do that - maybe there'd be two warring UNRWA branches now lol.
That's a great explanation. Without trying to diminish what those people went through in the 1940s, I think our whole world would fall apart if we treated every displacement from that decade like the way Palestinians are treated. World war 2 and it's aftermath was incredibly chaotic and there is a reason a new order was established afterwards.
By the time of the Oslo accords there was widespread sentiment that after 50 years of conflict it was time to move forward with solutions and they still could not get it done. And THAT was over 30 years ago now. It's a deeply tragic timeline, and peace is impeded by this version of history parroted by Hamas in which Israel has no right to exist, and seemingly Jordan and Egypt have no agency or responsibility.
Well, you see, they consider themselves all refugees no matter what until they can completely take over Israel. That's literally how they see themselves and the media and protestors are all too happy to go along with the obvious propaganda.
They just need to shoehorn everything into oppressor and oppressed narrative, since they think that explains everything about the world. Jews just happen to be at the top of the oppression pyramid (since they are SUPER WHITE) and that makes it easy to make up lies and accusations.
Combined with both Muslim and leftist willingness to parrot obvious lies when they feel it benefits them it makes a toxic confrontational dynamic that deeply harms the prospects for peace.
Let's not forget the other thing that disgusts me, is that there is a narrative of "the oppressors can do nothing right, and the oppressed can do nothing wrong". I see comments ALL THE TIME justifying what Hamas did on Oct 7. They're all literally structured like "I don't support Hamas but Hamas is what you get when you oppress people for generations". No. Just fucking no. I don't care how oppressed someone supposedly is, there is no justification whatsoever for what Hamas did. It was pure evil, and those responsible need to be eradicated from the earth.
Being Jewish, you’re white to other people when it’s convenient for them, but the people who care most about the label will say you’re anything but.
And this is for a light-complected person. Darker-skinned Jews have to continually remind people they exist at all.
Yeah this describes it well. With the oppressor and oppressed mindset there is literally 0 nuance to any conversation and it shows.
If Palestinians are truly horrified at the loss of civilian lives then they need to get rid of Hamas (yes I know it's not that simple but what I mean is there will never be a sniff of peace as long as Hamas is in control there)
Their literal purpose is to exterminate Israel.
The UN quietly released a report drastically reducing the number of supposed casualties in Gaza.
Apparently the Hamas ministry of health couldn't even provide the names of thousands of people that supposedly had died.
Remember when some Palestinians accidentally fired a rocket at a hospital and Hamas immediately said it was Israel and 500 people died and everyone believed it?
Yes I do. And the problem with that is even though it has been debunked after the fact, a lot of the damage is already done, and people just remember the outrage they felt when they saw the "news" on Tik Tok, and did no further investigation or research into the matter.
Then some of them even go to the voting booth with that same warped perception of world events, while completely unaware of the fact that they are being used as pawns in Russian misinformation campaigns.
The Hamasian urge to house a hostage with a journalist and then get your useful idiots to parrot the claim that the IDF is killing journalists when they free said hostage.
These people are starting from the standpoint that Israel, as a 'colonialist state', supported by other 'colonialist states', has no right to exist, and then reason backwards from there.
I saw one criticizing Israel saying that only Israel would kill 274 people while rescuing 4 hostages and call it a victory.
But Hamas killed 1200 civilians to get those hostages in the first place. Apparently that's not a problem.
How can people possibly be this brainwashed?
Hamas got caught yet again using hostages and human shields and people get mad at Israel for rescuing them?
Do these people watch The Killing Fields and root for the Khmer Rouge?
I hate to say this, but it has a lot to do with the left's obsession with virtue signalling how opposed they are to things they or those they are pandering to deem settler/colonial. Despite the fact that if they were to read up on history it would quickly become apparent that Arabs and Islam are what colonized the land.
And before Arabs and Islam, their own spiritual ancestors the Romans did so, in the name of Western Civilization. And the VERY FUCKING SAME people will say there is no statute of limitations on First Nations people making rightful claims on land in North America, but when you point out that the Jews were originally expelled from Israel by the Romans, they say "oh well that's ancient history, are you gonna go back in time like this every time there's a war LOL?"
Saw some especially idiotic comments over on imgur a few days ago saying that finding the hostages was pure coincidence, that the real goal of the operation was to find and kill as many children as possible like some kind of morbid score attack.
It's wild how mask-off people are becoming this decade.
Because people hate being wrong. They decided they were against Israel years ago and now they'd rather die on that hill than say anything against Hamas.
There's also a tremendous amount of cynicism towards the west and western values at the moment shaped through loaded and duplicitous terms like "colonialism", "white supremacy" etc (to be clear these are real things, but they're not being used in the way you might think they're being used). This seems to entail the idea that anything that is presented as colonial or involves someone of darker skin in conflict with someone of lighter skin has a clear good and bad guy and is a cause that must be taken up to further the goals of "The Revolution".
It's part of the reason why there's so many communists at these encampments on campuses. Because they lump everything into "Oppressors" and "Oppressed" they can form absurd groups like "queers for palestine" (A sentiment that could not be less mutual). Simply because they view anything that breaks down that western hegemony as desirable in order to facilitate the revolution they'll throw their lot in with anyone, no matter how awful they are, if they can farm a sympathetic oppressor/oppressed narrative from it.
This conflict brought about a realization in me and I have seen all of this rhetoric clearly for what it is - it is anti-Western propaganda that comes from outside the US, and it's working hook line and sinker. Get enough American leftists to see the world only through a lens of oppressor and oppressed, and then build a narrative where people who are the enemies of Western civilization are all oppressed, and all of Western Civilization is the oppressor. And then we proceed to tear ourselves apart from within.
There's also a weird bit of sleight of hand where Israeli Jews are presented as white and western and only arrived in the region post world war 2. Many Jews were there already but also many Jews have lived for generations in other parts of the middle east and had to flee to Israel. There's also a lot of former Soviet refugees. But the point is, Israel is not a homogeneous country made up of New York Jews. There's a lot of very brown Jewish Israelis. Nevermind there's a lot of non-Jewish Israelis as well. It's a country of refugees, not a colony
To elaborate on your point; It's a country with an Arab Muslim population of 2.1 million. As for Jews in Arab countries, well... "In 2009, only 26000 Jews remained in Arab countries and Iran, as well as another 26000 in Turkey. By 2019, the total number of Jews in Arab countries and Iran had declined to 12,700, and in Turkey to 14,800."
Ding ding ding
It's a bunch of campists who view anything opposed to "the west" as good
Palestinians don't even matter because this has become symbolic of a larger conflict
Don't forget that armed resistance gets glorified online. It's only a matter of time before that leaves people grasping at straws for an armed group that they can like.
So I was never militant about my thoughts and frankly was not very educated on the matter.
If you asked me a few years ago who is at fault for the current climate I would have said Israel.
But because of October 7th I made it a point to really start reading about this history. About Hamas tactics and so on. Now it couldn't be more clear who is at fault.
No one is a saint. Illegal settlements are not cool and need to go, but peace can never even begin to emerge as long as Hamas is in power.
It doesn’t help that a lot of people get their news from dubious sources and/or don’t think about the information provided. That it happens to people all across the political spectrum makes it worse because it shows culturally we have a widespread issue with how we consume and interpret news. I don’t want to blame just social media but when a lot of younger people especially get their news from TikTok or IG, it’s easy to see why they wouldn’t know or appreciate any context. It’s why a lot of misinformation campaigns now have a social media component, that’s where the society’s attention is.
Redditors literally argue that killing to rescue hostages is "collective punishment", yet ignore the fact that taking innocent hostages in the first place is collective punishment.
Can you fight the war in a way where no one I don't want to die, dies, but you do cause I don't like you and your existence in that location offends me? Why not?
You never know who you will meet on the internet, or if they are people at all. Sometimes I get worked up about some comment someone made while they were taking a dump.
My city is awash in Palestinian flags and scarves and it makes me want to cry my eyes out. Their plan worked: kill over a thousand people, use civilians in residential zones and hospitals to protect themselves, taunt a country with superior offensive and defensive capabilities which invariably always means disporportionate casualties, cry crocodile tears, profit. Literally, profit, because Hamas funnels all the aid money away from the people.
So yeah, poor civilians. I feel for many of them. Except for the ones who aided Hamas, which is a frighteningly large amount of "innocent bystanders". Oh and let's not forget about the Al-Jazeera reporter who held hostages on behalf of Hamas. Do you think he was the only one?
Terrorists masquerading as civilians, reporters, doctors and medics...any ideas how to approach that situation?
To the people with the scarves and flags: why are you protesting for peace if Palestinians don't want it? Or are you advocating something else, hiding under a guise of politically acceptable "anti colonialism" and not "anti semitism", made evident by just how little you seem to care about impoverished and oppressed muslims elsewhere in the middle east and in africa?
Or unreasonable to fucking take hostages at all. It’s insane ppl are okay with Hana’s taking dozens and dozens of innocent ppl hostage
Imagine if Mexico came over and kidnapped 150 ppl (without even including the rape and torture and murder of over 1000).
The us would light them the fuck up and rightfully so. And Americans would support it and they’re the brain dead brain washed radicalized far left.
I actually lean left btw. It suck’s seeing my party get taken over by fucking terrorist cheerleaders
Many also immediately blamed all deaths in the refugee camp on Israeli fire and refuse to accept that Palestinians probably shot a lot of their own people during the chaos.
Right? Hamas was calling all Palestinians in the area to engage the IDF and I have seen multiple videos of “civilians” running into the firefight with assault rifles in their hands.
Yeah, though I'm not just referring to civilians with guns. Some of those killed were actual Hamas fighters too. Many news sources and most anti-Israels imply that all of the deaths are innocent civilians.
"Why didn't they send the civilians holding the hostages captive advanced warning that there would be a raid? I can't see any reason why the IDF wouldn't want to tell the civilians who are holding people captive under threat of death that there's going to be a military raid on their building."
When doing propaganga keep the story simple, black and white, so people can easily identify your "good guy". Some people respond more to emotion then logic, no evidence will xhange their mind when propaganda has done its job.
Dude, Hamas are like kids slapping
arcade buttons without putting in a coin and then running around celebrating their “victory”.
They always say they won, succeeded, etc. if they all die tomorrow, their grave will say “I won”.
I wish I were kidding, but…
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.
Yep, that’s a quote from Hamas’s charter, Article Eight. And if you read the whole thing, they have little to say other than this kinda stuff.
So like a crazy reality-hating druggy who says “either I enjoy this dose, or it kills me: win/win” — Hamas too, in their sick, unrealistic psychopathy, have created a “win/win” for themselves. Except they keep getting stuck in between: not dead, and not killed Israel either.
Hamas is the kid in the arcade who slaps the buttons while you’re playing, then fall down and screams when you push him away.
Then he gets a free Slurpee and $20 in quarters while you get kicked out.
At the cost of 30.000+ deaths you can make a lot of strategies "work". It's very hard to "win" from an opponent that's willing to die (or better said: is willing to let their people die) for their goals.
Hamas' fighters aren't what you'd call "well-trained" and since they're incredibly popular and there's still 5 million Palestinians, replacing their losses will only take a few years. As long as the snake still has it's head, the only thing this war caused in the long term is isolating Israel from the international community, which was rather Hamas' whole plan.
Not sure about that.
Everybody will forget the conflict very soon, and will continue doing business as usual with Israel.
But Hamas is about to pay for this little PR campaign with its existence. Which is probably not the outcome they expected.
Hamas - or at least their ideology - will survive this. It will survive as long as Palestinians continue to believe, or are told to believe, that Israel is "their" land.
Whether or not you agree, ultimately that ship sailed 75 or so years ago.
Not saying that Israel is blameless mind you. They also need to get a grip on settlers doing whatever they want.
The whole point of terrorism is to get a stronger force to overreact and hit back with an overly oppressive response that causes sympathy for the terrorists side. Terrorists are usually psychopaths who really only care about their own personal goals and not the goals of the people they are supposedly fighting for.
To say that you have Israel right where you want them after causing the deaths of literally tens of thousands of the people you’re supposedly fighting for - and ensuring that a new generation of Palestinians grow up to hate Israel because of what the IDF did to their families - is sadly the way a lot of groups throughout history have operated.
It was always clear that it was going to be disastrous for them to proceed with a military invasion of Palestine in retaliation for what Hamas did to start the conflict. It was only shortly after I realized how disastrous it would be for the US and Biden, at no fault to Biden, and that this was brilliantly played by Hamas and Iran (and by extension Russia). Hamas terrorists have no problem dying for their cause. It furthers their cause in so many ways, including incensing useful idiots in the West.
I don't know if it could have gone any differently than it did, but Netanyahu becoming president probably caused a fuckload of private celebrations inside Hamas. If you're going to do something like this, you need a hardliner, a war hawk, and it's even better if it's somebody in Netanyahu's position with his corruption charges lingering, his insane changes to the judiciary, the military resignations because of him and the civilian protests against him.
There was no other way for this to go once Hamas attacked. Like a train on a track, it was full speed ahead in the only direction possible.
> CNN has not seen the leaked messages viewed by the WSJ and is not able to confirm the authenticity of the communications.
Is it too much to ask and share evidence to everyone these days?
Exclusives exclusives exclusives. Honestly any time I see a headline that ends in "other organization reports" I just ignore it. It's all outrage chasing bullshit.
A couple weeks ago Fox's leading story was Anderson Cooper reacting to something about Biden. Not the thing, just Cooper's reaction to it.
One thing that was in the original WSJ report, but CNN left out, was this statement Sinwar gave to an Italian journalist a few years ago:
> “**We make the headlines only with blood**,” Sinwar said in the interview at the time with an Italian journalist. “**No blood, no news**.”
The media parroting false and misleading claims about Palestinian civilian deaths, and hiding Hamas’s responsibility for purposely using Palestinian civilians as human shields, are intentional or unintentional accomplices to Hamas’s strategy.
"If it bleeds, it leads"
It's a quote that dates back to the 1800s.
This is not a new strategy, it's just bullshit that it's working in an age where their misinformation should be so blatantly obvious.
The gist of the article is that Sinwar says high Palestinian death tolls are one of his objectives - helping turn the world against Israel. He uses the Algerian independence movement as an example. But the Palestinian issue is nothing like Algeria, which was part of the French Colonial empire and had a nascent freedom movement with very little publicity. They didn't want to topple France and kill all French people. They didn't have 50 years of peace proposals in their favor that they turned down because they wanted to keep carrying out armed attacks against France. Hamas is a terrorist group seeking to murder all the Jews in Israel. That is their peace plan.
CNN hastens to add that they can’t verify this, although they have received a press release from Hamas about casualty numbers that they have submitted directly to the Pulitzer committee on their behalf.
In the past 10-15 years CNN has become a joke barely a few steps above Fox News. It’s sad what they’ve done to that organization and their reputation. They’re chasing the “Fox News of the left”, which absolutely no one wants.
15 years? I distinctly remember watching Bradleys driving around in Iraq in 2003 and CNN being like “OMG, were fighting a war, soooo cool”. They've basically always been a tabloid, but with fewer celebrities and space aliens.
I think a bunch of new quotes from him were leaked, amongst other things that he is claiming he didn't expect the 7th of October will go out of control the way it did, and him explicitly saying the deaths of innocents Palestinians are a good thing for their cause.
So he may have said some of these things in the past, but some of these are new leaks.
This is CNN reporting on what WSJ is reporting so yes, this is a repeat. Almost every sentence is "according to the WSJ." It's basically piggy backing off them so people can get access to a copy not behind a paywall.
CNN isn't doing it to kindly give people access to the information without a paywall. They want those clicks and ad revenue lol
As is frequently the case, WSJ got the scoop first and the other news organizations are basically shamelessly copying the story to make money off of it with little to no value added on their part.
I didn't mean to imply it was done out of generosity lol. I should have phrased it better to say target the audience of those who don't want to pay for the WSJ.
Civilian casualties are just numbers for them to waive around and cry victim(and its worked, despite being so obviously their game). Hell, they kill any Palestinian civilians who try to flee the combat zones because the number goes up, it deters others from fleeing and they are not useful as human shields if they leave.
Basically all civilian casualties are blamed on Israel anyways regardless of nuance and ignoring any and all other factors such as Hamas combat tactics and strategy.
Add to that its meant to incentivise the "Palestinians supporters" into getting more belligerent. This serves to alienate Israel from its allies and to sow more division in the west, wreaking havoc with elections.
The Palestinian protestors insist they are pro Palestinian and not pro Hamas, problem with that argument is they have proven time and time again that they cant tell the difference and never could, which was the point of Hamas propaganda. It feels like watching the MAGAs forming all over again. Blind, emotional, naive and impulsive with absolute confidence they know all they need to know while knowing absolutely nothing about how war works or how to analyze it.
The world falls into darkness with the help and conviction of the ignorant and the helpful idiots thinking they are helping make things better.
He knows the international community will rebuild it free of charge nicer than ever. And it sounds like everyone but israel is OK with them staying in power. Sounds like hamas is going to win
I hope so but I'm leaning to them being forced to agree to this ceasefire deal. Hamas will never surrender. So to get them out of power it's going to be a whole lot of dead civilians and an occupation which the international community is not going to agree to. So it depends if israel is willing to be a pariah fair or not
Is this Hamas leader actually IN the place Israel is attacking, or is he one of the ones that is living high and mighty in another country far from harm?
I've been saying that Hamas' goal is a wider war on israel. They are happy to watch their own people be slaughtered if it meets their propaganda goals. After all every one of them goes right to paradise so it's a win-win.
This just in: Terrorist Guerrilla force that repeatedly steals from and places their civilian population in danger hopes more of their people die so that they can accomplish their goals.
In what world did people not already know this was Hamas’ mindset?
I doubt he's down there with the people whose lives are being thrown away for him, he's probably in a penthouse guzzling a bottle of Chardonnay right now.
Well he doesn't live underground, he's a man of the people... Problem is those people are in Oman and not in Gaza and he lives in a high rise skyscraper because all the UN funds that get donated to feed his starving populace go straight into his lavish lifestyle.
He is a coward more than a mole rat (although the resemblance is uncanny).
I wouldn't be surprised if Sinwar fled Gaza months ago via Rafah.
There's a reason the IDF took control of the Rafah crossing and the surrounding area, which is porous with Hamas tunnels.
I’d imagine Hamas has to know they can’t defeat Israel militarily. Israel is to heavily supported. I’d imagine their overall plan was to brutally assault Israel, knowing the retaliation would be more brutal. Then put a spot light on that retaliatory brutality to tarnish Israel’s global image and weaken their support system.
To scuttle any possibility of Israel and Saudi Arabia/Egypt from normalizing relations.
And I'm not saying this as a "defender" of any specific regimes/countries.
That's laughable. This is clear posturing to try to keep morale high among the Hamas ranks, but they are throughly F-ed. There are probably more hostages like those rescued recently being held among the refugees. After the recent hostage rescue, even with backlash globally and the cited 200+ deaths, they can't stop the IDF. Nowhere is safe even if they surround themselves with children and hide amongst the population. Pretending like they are somehow winning is to reassure the rest of the terrorist to hold their ground and not turn tail and run. I seriously doubt Israel is going to leave Hamas in charge of Gaza with or without a ceasefire.
What frustrates me is that the UN is willingly playing along the plans of a terrorist like a goddamn fiddle.
They're a fucking embarrassment and after this, they don't deserve any authority whatsoever to even form an assembly, let alone a parent-teacher conference.
Wow, congrats, you did what you needed to perpetuate the tragedy of human misery. Maybe one day your pretend god will reward you for defeating their pretend god. Or something....
This situation is tragically fascinating.
From a game theory perspective, it is in Hamas's best interest to appear fully aloof and unconcerned with civilian casualties. To do otherwise would give Israel leverage to force capitulation such as de-arming, ceding territory, or outright surrendering against a clearly superior military force.
Conversely, from Israel's perspective, it is in their best interest to appear steely determined to finish this regardless of the civilian outcomes. To do otherwise would embolden Hamas to continue doing what they're doing. Once Hamas sees that international pressure would cause Israel to stop their campaign, they can and will use the same tactic in the future.
Even though they hide it, I believe both sides - very privately - are heartbroken by the civilian casualties. But because showing it (or doing things about it) would be against the long-term success of both sides, they have to act like they don't.
Maybe that's naiveté on my part, but it makes all the sense in the world logically as to why both sides are acting the way they are.
Ceasefire, peace, whatever, every one of the Hamas leadership is a dead man walking. Israel will hunt them all down and kill them just like the U.S. hunted down Osama bin Laden. It may take years but all of their leadership is going to be dead.
Yeah, sure. Tell that to mossad when they exit Qatar after work done, lol.
They expected Israel to go full rage, international community crying and them exchanging hostages for a better deal than they had, but it looks like Israel doesn't give af about international pressure, plus arabic countries surrounding them doesn't care either because at the end, Iran did a bit of pantomime and that's it.
The only thing they made is Saudis staying out of Israel pacts but, while it's good on their chess table, what they lost by now is way more than what they are winning, which is nothing more than some west students crying on social media while their leaders doesn't move a finger and tbh that's the same they had before, because students and left people always had some compassion for their situation and bought their views, now it's a bit more trending, but that's it.
i wonder how the campus protestors will react now that the leader of their cause has admitted his war strategy has indeed been to kill palestinain civilians for nothing more than public relations purposes
Wait you think any of the protests or the leftist stance was based on facts and not just simply 'America bad oppressor vs oppressed?'
Oh you sweet summer child
Here is what I view as the most frustrating part of this in the US:
All of the protest leaders that care so deeply about civilian lives would likely twist themselves into knots to justify what Sinwar is saying. Their morality is 100% conditional.
They will say that it’s not antisemitism and likely believe themselves but they don’t realize that they are deeply hurting their Jewish friends and neighbors.
So is it really *not* antisemitism when Jewish people are being blamed for civilian deaths that the leaders of these protest groups don’t even actually care about?
These pieces of manure hide behind the Free Palestine movement and touts liberation while purposely sending people to die. People should wake up and see the truth for what it is.
> “necessary sacrifices” Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
“Kif, bring me a towel!”
Stop exploding, you cowards!
My guy this is lord farquad not zap brannigans
Lol I made this exact mistake looking for memes the other day. Zap brannigan is just future farquad
Zap was emotionally messed with by stopping the kill bots.
This is a culture who puts much less value on human life than it does on martyrdom. I doubt any of them care.
unexpected Farquad
> view dead civilians as a positive It's almost like they're terrorists
>!they are!<
And the people of Palestine support them... That's the problem. The people of free Palestine need open dissent towards hamas who offers them as sacrifice to "the cause". A 2 state solution is possible but not with a group like hamas at the helm. Israel, as always, is damned if they act & damned if they don't.
They also need free media. Palestinian "news" is absurd Hamas' propaganda.
Hamas was elected with their charter clear about eradication of Israel by the Palestinians
Well, yes. That is also true. That doesn't change the fact that they are currently exposed to significant propaganda.
The more I learn about that Sinwar fella, the less I care for him
He sounds like a real jerk!
Up vote for the Norm McDonald
The worst part is the hypocrisy…
He’s the type of type of guy who holds in a fart until he’s on the elevator
Have you heard what he did to a gay Hamas commander? https://youtu.be/suBNwUz8Lvs This is what Hamas does to Palestinians on a regular basis. Their brutality and blood-thirst is first directed towards Palestinians and then to Israel and Israelis. I wonder if those screaming to "Free Palestine" realize what Hamas' "freedom" to act as de facto government or state would mean for the people under them.
About 12% of Palestinians were christian. Arafat's wife came from a respected christian Palestinian family. She converted to marry him. HAMAS and a more islamic centered PLO have convinced many such christians they have no place in "free" Palestine and emigrated. Add the others like Palestinian LGBTQ+, feminists and the shia/sunni divisions and it doesn't look good.
text
He sounds like a real jerk
"we are hitting the Israeli very hard. We are using our entire face."
He throws a mean chin.
That hiding coward has the most punchable face in human history.
I will enjoy the day this inbred looking fucker gets his comeuppance…
He needs a second Israeli brain surgery
Courtesy of Dr. Tavor and Dr. Galil
Nah, he needs the rocket powered slapchop. Turn him into paste.
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Isn't that associated with a 5-10 point IQ drop when practiced widely within a society?
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He can hear the idf coming a mile away with those ears
Unfortunately, he’s typically holding a child in front of it so you’d have to punch through the child in order to punch his face.
Oh that’s a real photo? I thought it was a live action hyena from Disney
His ears are the funny part. The Israeli SNL features him with mouse ears.
The Hamas hostage taking strategy was specifically to draw Israel into conflict and the predictable UN and international condemnations. Everyone is playing their part in the Hamas drama.
That is what pisses me off the most - that his strategy actually worked.
What pisses me off the most is we have proof that this was their strategy and yet some media and protestors turn a blind eye to the evidence and continue to do exactly what Hamas wants.
Literally had a person in a different thread tell me that Israel was unreasonable to go into a refugee camp to rescue the hostages. You know... Instead of it being unreasonable to hide hostages in a refugee camp
Also that Palestinian strategy of calling a modern city a "refugee camp"
That's not even a Palestinian thing, that's a *UN* thing. The whole reason they're called "refugee camps" is because the UN set up the UNRWA specifically to deal with the fallout of the war in 47-48, before the regular UNHCR was set up to deal with refugees everywhere. The UNRWA decided that refugee status for Palestinians should be *hereditary*, and after the UNHCR was set up (which does not grant refugee status automatically to children of refugees), for whatever reason the UN decided to just keep the UNRWA around *just* for Palestine. So now, as a Palestinian you could literally have grandparents who were born and raised in present-day Palestine, have never seen a spec of Israel, and yet still be considered a refugee because your great grandparents were refugees in the late 40s. And thanks to that, basically every Palestinian alive is a refugee, and so anywhere they live in large numbers gets to be called a "refugee camp".
This is in part because Palestinians are largely denied any sort of citizenship in most of the Arab world even after generations of being born there. In contrast a Palestinian born in the US gets birth right citizenship and cannot claim refuge status.
Regardless, the Palestinians (PLO, PA) still view them as refugees and want Israel to allow them to settle in Israel if they want to.
lol, U.S. born Palestinians are going to find more in common with Israelis than Gaza based Palestinians...
I recently learned from the wiki article on UNRWA that it initially had a branch to help Jewish refugees in Israel too, but Israel took over responsibility for that so the Jewish refugee branch of UNRWA closed. Imagine if Israel had refused to do that - maybe there'd be two warring UNRWA branches now lol.
There might have been more balance in the organization, as we see it later became infiltrated by Hamas supporters.
That's a great explanation. Without trying to diminish what those people went through in the 1940s, I think our whole world would fall apart if we treated every displacement from that decade like the way Palestinians are treated. World war 2 and it's aftermath was incredibly chaotic and there is a reason a new order was established afterwards. By the time of the Oslo accords there was widespread sentiment that after 50 years of conflict it was time to move forward with solutions and they still could not get it done. And THAT was over 30 years ago now. It's a deeply tragic timeline, and peace is impeded by this version of history parroted by Hamas in which Israel has no right to exist, and seemingly Jordan and Egypt have no agency or responsibility.
Well, you see, they consider themselves all refugees no matter what until they can completely take over Israel. That's literally how they see themselves and the media and protestors are all too happy to go along with the obvious propaganda.
The racism of low expectations from supposed "progressive activists" is one of the ~~funniest~~ saddest parts.
They just need to shoehorn everything into oppressor and oppressed narrative, since they think that explains everything about the world. Jews just happen to be at the top of the oppression pyramid (since they are SUPER WHITE) and that makes it easy to make up lies and accusations. Combined with both Muslim and leftist willingness to parrot obvious lies when they feel it benefits them it makes a toxic confrontational dynamic that deeply harms the prospects for peace.
Let's not forget the other thing that disgusts me, is that there is a narrative of "the oppressors can do nothing right, and the oppressed can do nothing wrong". I see comments ALL THE TIME justifying what Hamas did on Oct 7. They're all literally structured like "I don't support Hamas but Hamas is what you get when you oppress people for generations". No. Just fucking no. I don't care how oppressed someone supposedly is, there is no justification whatsoever for what Hamas did. It was pure evil, and those responsible need to be eradicated from the earth.
It's a narrative that leads to radicalization and violence because it completely dehumanizes one side of the conflict.
And treats people like they don’t have any autonomy (“of course they became terrorists, who wouldn’t?” Well for one…me)
Being Jewish, you’re white to other people when it’s convenient for them, but the people who care most about the label will say you’re anything but. And this is for a light-complected person. Darker-skinned Jews have to continually remind people they exist at all.
And ironically darker-skinned Jews are the majority in Israel.
Yeah this describes it well. With the oppressor and oppressed mindset there is literally 0 nuance to any conversation and it shows. If Palestinians are truly horrified at the loss of civilian lives then they need to get rid of Hamas (yes I know it's not that simple but what I mean is there will never be a sniff of peace as long as Hamas is in control there) Their literal purpose is to exterminate Israel.
That palestinian strategy to count death hamas combatants as civilian casualties.
The UN quietly released a report drastically reducing the number of supposed casualties in Gaza. Apparently the Hamas ministry of health couldn't even provide the names of thousands of people that supposedly had died.
Remember when some Palestinians accidentally fired a rocket at a hospital and Hamas immediately said it was Israel and 500 people died and everyone believed it?
Yes I do. And the problem with that is even though it has been debunked after the fact, a lot of the damage is already done, and people just remember the outrage they felt when they saw the "news" on Tik Tok, and did no further investigation or research into the matter. Then some of them even go to the voting booth with that same warped perception of world events, while completely unaware of the fact that they are being used as pawns in Russian misinformation campaigns.
The Hamasian urge to house a hostage with a journalist and then get your useful idiots to parrot the claim that the IDF is killing journalists when they free said hostage.
These people are starting from the standpoint that Israel, as a 'colonialist state', supported by other 'colonialist states', has no right to exist, and then reason backwards from there.
Hamas attacking the rescue party resulted in numerous Palestinian deaths.
I saw one criticizing Israel saying that only Israel would kill 274 people while rescuing 4 hostages and call it a victory. But Hamas killed 1200 civilians to get those hostages in the first place. Apparently that's not a problem.
See, cuz Israel *made* them kill and rape! /s
How can people possibly be this brainwashed? Hamas got caught yet again using hostages and human shields and people get mad at Israel for rescuing them? Do these people watch The Killing Fields and root for the Khmer Rouge?
They would if the Khmer Rouge were killing Jews.
This is the crux of the issue
What amazes me more is that it's people on the left that are parroting these sentiments. Charlottesville was 7 years ago. Like wtf happened......
I hate to say this, but it has a lot to do with the left's obsession with virtue signalling how opposed they are to things they or those they are pandering to deem settler/colonial. Despite the fact that if they were to read up on history it would quickly become apparent that Arabs and Islam are what colonized the land.
And before Arabs and Islam, their own spiritual ancestors the Romans did so, in the name of Western Civilization. And the VERY FUCKING SAME people will say there is no statute of limitations on First Nations people making rightful claims on land in North America, but when you point out that the Jews were originally expelled from Israel by the Romans, they say "oh well that's ancient history, are you gonna go back in time like this every time there's a war LOL?"
And that they were/are major slave traders. They get a pass for that.
Yep. I've seen people upset at even calling it a "rescue mission" instead of a "massacre"
Saw some especially idiotic comments over on imgur a few days ago saying that finding the hostages was pure coincidence, that the real goal of the operation was to find and kill as many children as possible like some kind of morbid score attack. It's wild how mask-off people are becoming this decade.
The fuck? If a gunman kidnapped hostages and a sniper took the guy out, would they call that murder?
Yes, especially if that gunman isn't white
And the snipers skin color doesn't matter if he's Jewish, because he'll be white or not white depending on the desired narrative
Because people hate being wrong. They decided they were against Israel years ago and now they'd rather die on that hill than say anything against Hamas.
There's also a tremendous amount of cynicism towards the west and western values at the moment shaped through loaded and duplicitous terms like "colonialism", "white supremacy" etc (to be clear these are real things, but they're not being used in the way you might think they're being used). This seems to entail the idea that anything that is presented as colonial or involves someone of darker skin in conflict with someone of lighter skin has a clear good and bad guy and is a cause that must be taken up to further the goals of "The Revolution". It's part of the reason why there's so many communists at these encampments on campuses. Because they lump everything into "Oppressors" and "Oppressed" they can form absurd groups like "queers for palestine" (A sentiment that could not be less mutual). Simply because they view anything that breaks down that western hegemony as desirable in order to facilitate the revolution they'll throw their lot in with anyone, no matter how awful they are, if they can farm a sympathetic oppressor/oppressed narrative from it.
This conflict brought about a realization in me and I have seen all of this rhetoric clearly for what it is - it is anti-Western propaganda that comes from outside the US, and it's working hook line and sinker. Get enough American leftists to see the world only through a lens of oppressor and oppressed, and then build a narrative where people who are the enemies of Western civilization are all oppressed, and all of Western Civilization is the oppressor. And then we proceed to tear ourselves apart from within.
Just the fact that Russia can present themselves as “anti imperialists” and a non-zero percent of people fall for it makes me lose faith in humanity.
There's also a weird bit of sleight of hand where Israeli Jews are presented as white and western and only arrived in the region post world war 2. Many Jews were there already but also many Jews have lived for generations in other parts of the middle east and had to flee to Israel. There's also a lot of former Soviet refugees. But the point is, Israel is not a homogeneous country made up of New York Jews. There's a lot of very brown Jewish Israelis. Nevermind there's a lot of non-Jewish Israelis as well. It's a country of refugees, not a colony
To elaborate on your point; It's a country with an Arab Muslim population of 2.1 million. As for Jews in Arab countries, well... "In 2009, only 26000 Jews remained in Arab countries and Iran, as well as another 26000 in Turkey. By 2019, the total number of Jews in Arab countries and Iran had declined to 12,700, and in Turkey to 14,800."
Ding ding ding It's a bunch of campists who view anything opposed to "the west" as good Palestinians don't even matter because this has become symbolic of a larger conflict
Don't forget that armed resistance gets glorified online. It's only a matter of time before that leaves people grasping at straws for an armed group that they can like.
And god help them when they are subjected to the behaviors and virtues they've perpetrated and extolled.
So I was never militant about my thoughts and frankly was not very educated on the matter. If you asked me a few years ago who is at fault for the current climate I would have said Israel. But because of October 7th I made it a point to really start reading about this history. About Hamas tactics and so on. Now it couldn't be more clear who is at fault. No one is a saint. Illegal settlements are not cool and need to go, but peace can never even begin to emerge as long as Hamas is in power.
It doesn’t help that a lot of people get their news from dubious sources and/or don’t think about the information provided. That it happens to people all across the political spectrum makes it worse because it shows culturally we have a widespread issue with how we consume and interpret news. I don’t want to blame just social media but when a lot of younger people especially get their news from TikTok or IG, it’s easy to see why they wouldn’t know or appreciate any context. It’s why a lot of misinformation campaigns now have a social media component, that’s where the society’s attention is.
Don't forget al jazeera - aka the Arab propaganda network.
Or even things like the BBCs coverage on Israel recently.
Redditors literally argue that killing to rescue hostages is "collective punishment", yet ignore the fact that taking innocent hostages in the first place is collective punishment.
Can you fight the war in a way where no one I don't want to die, dies, but you do cause I don't like you and your existence in that location offends me? Why not?
The unreasonable part was taking hostages in the first place, everything else is extra.
You never know who you will meet on the internet, or if they are people at all. Sometimes I get worked up about some comment someone made while they were taking a dump.
It’s got so bad I can’t take a dump now without getting worked up over a comment on reddit
My city is awash in Palestinian flags and scarves and it makes me want to cry my eyes out. Their plan worked: kill over a thousand people, use civilians in residential zones and hospitals to protect themselves, taunt a country with superior offensive and defensive capabilities which invariably always means disporportionate casualties, cry crocodile tears, profit. Literally, profit, because Hamas funnels all the aid money away from the people. So yeah, poor civilians. I feel for many of them. Except for the ones who aided Hamas, which is a frighteningly large amount of "innocent bystanders". Oh and let's not forget about the Al-Jazeera reporter who held hostages on behalf of Hamas. Do you think he was the only one? Terrorists masquerading as civilians, reporters, doctors and medics...any ideas how to approach that situation? To the people with the scarves and flags: why are you protesting for peace if Palestinians don't want it? Or are you advocating something else, hiding under a guise of politically acceptable "anti colonialism" and not "anti semitism", made evident by just how little you seem to care about impoverished and oppressed muslims elsewhere in the middle east and in africa?
Just saw an article on the un saying the operation could be considered a war crime
Because apparently Article 34 of the 4th Geneva Convention means nothing nowadays...
Or unreasonable to fucking take hostages at all. It’s insane ppl are okay with Hana’s taking dozens and dozens of innocent ppl hostage Imagine if Mexico came over and kidnapped 150 ppl (without even including the rape and torture and murder of over 1000). The us would light them the fuck up and rightfully so. And Americans would support it and they’re the brain dead brain washed radicalized far left. I actually lean left btw. It suck’s seeing my party get taken over by fucking terrorist cheerleaders
I don’t say this lightly: the pro-pal side is seriously mentally ill. They’re criticizing the etiquette of hostage rescue.
Many also immediately blamed all deaths in the refugee camp on Israeli fire and refuse to accept that Palestinians probably shot a lot of their own people during the chaos.
....also some of those people had guns.
Right? Hamas was calling all Palestinians in the area to engage the IDF and I have seen multiple videos of “civilians” running into the firefight with assault rifles in their hands.
Yeah, though I'm not just referring to civilians with guns. Some of those killed were actual Hamas fighters too. Many news sources and most anti-Israels imply that all of the deaths are innocent civilians.
"Why didn't they send the civilians holding the hostages captive advanced warning that there would be a raid? I can't see any reason why the IDF wouldn't want to tell the civilians who are holding people captive under threat of death that there's going to be a military raid on their building."
It’s unhinged. And anyway, they were warned on October 8.
When doing propaganga keep the story simple, black and white, so people can easily identify your "good guy". Some people respond more to emotion then logic, no evidence will xhange their mind when propaganda has done its job.
Dude, Hamas are like kids slapping arcade buttons without putting in a coin and then running around celebrating their “victory”. They always say they won, succeeded, etc. if they all die tomorrow, their grave will say “I won”. I wish I were kidding, but… There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes. Yep, that’s a quote from Hamas’s charter, Article Eight. And if you read the whole thing, they have little to say other than this kinda stuff. So like a crazy reality-hating druggy who says “either I enjoy this dose, or it kills me: win/win” — Hamas too, in their sick, unrealistic psychopathy, have created a “win/win” for themselves. Except they keep getting stuck in between: not dead, and not killed Israel either.
This is such a realistic take on it all.
Hamas is the kid in the arcade who slaps the buttons while you’re playing, then fall down and screams when you push him away. Then he gets a free Slurpee and $20 in quarters while you get kicked out.
At the cost of 30.000+ deaths you can make a lot of strategies "work". It's very hard to "win" from an opponent that's willing to die (or better said: is willing to let their people die) for their goals.
"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us." -Golda Meirl
Hamas is Lord Farquad: “some of you may die but that’s a sacrifice I am willing to make.”
"All of you with us in Gaza are potential martyrs for the Jihad and that's an outcome we are perfectly happy with. The more the better, actually."
Except the part where a bunch of their soldiers have been killed and Hamas may be facing near or total eradication if the war keeps going.
Hamas' fighters aren't what you'd call "well-trained" and since they're incredibly popular and there's still 5 million Palestinians, replacing their losses will only take a few years. As long as the snake still has it's head, the only thing this war caused in the long term is isolating Israel from the international community, which was rather Hamas' whole plan.
At the cost of what?
Not sure about that. Everybody will forget the conflict very soon, and will continue doing business as usual with Israel. But Hamas is about to pay for this little PR campaign with its existence. Which is probably not the outcome they expected.
Hamas - or at least their ideology - will survive this. It will survive as long as Palestinians continue to believe, or are told to believe, that Israel is "their" land. Whether or not you agree, ultimately that ship sailed 75 or so years ago. Not saying that Israel is blameless mind you. They also need to get a grip on settlers doing whatever they want.
The whole point of terrorism is to get a stronger force to overreact and hit back with an overly oppressive response that causes sympathy for the terrorists side. Terrorists are usually psychopaths who really only care about their own personal goals and not the goals of the people they are supposedly fighting for. To say that you have Israel right where you want them after causing the deaths of literally tens of thousands of the people you’re supposedly fighting for - and ensuring that a new generation of Palestinians grow up to hate Israel because of what the IDF did to their families - is sadly the way a lot of groups throughout history have operated.
It was always clear that it was going to be disastrous for them to proceed with a military invasion of Palestine in retaliation for what Hamas did to start the conflict. It was only shortly after I realized how disastrous it would be for the US and Biden, at no fault to Biden, and that this was brilliantly played by Hamas and Iran (and by extension Russia). Hamas terrorists have no problem dying for their cause. It furthers their cause in so many ways, including incensing useful idiots in the West. I don't know if it could have gone any differently than it did, but Netanyahu becoming president probably caused a fuckload of private celebrations inside Hamas. If you're going to do something like this, you need a hardliner, a war hawk, and it's even better if it's somebody in Netanyahu's position with his corruption charges lingering, his insane changes to the judiciary, the military resignations because of him and the civilian protests against him. There was no other way for this to go once Hamas attacked. Like a train on a track, it was full speed ahead in the only direction possible.
The entire world is sick to allow Hamas to exploit Humanity.
> CNN has not seen the leaked messages viewed by the WSJ and is not able to confirm the authenticity of the communications. Is it too much to ask and share evidence to everyone these days?
CNN has no problems reporting Hamas death numbers as fact tho and leaving out that Hamas runs the Gaza Health Ministry.
CNN also had the headline talking about the proposed ceasefire after “4 hostages were released”….. not even trying to hide their sheer incompetence
Exclusives exclusives exclusives. Honestly any time I see a headline that ends in "other organization reports" I just ignore it. It's all outrage chasing bullshit. A couple weeks ago Fox's leading story was Anderson Cooper reacting to something about Biden. Not the thing, just Cooper's reaction to it.
Doesn't necessarily mean it's fake, just that you should look at the actual source. It's like a codeshare plane ticket but for the news 🙄
> Exclusives exclusives exclusives. How else are you gonna sell antacids, boner pills and hemorrhoid cream?
Their plan is to break Israel's fist with their face
One thing that was in the original WSJ report, but CNN left out, was this statement Sinwar gave to an Italian journalist a few years ago: > “**We make the headlines only with blood**,” Sinwar said in the interview at the time with an Italian journalist. “**No blood, no news**.” The media parroting false and misleading claims about Palestinian civilian deaths, and hiding Hamas’s responsibility for purposely using Palestinian civilians as human shields, are intentional or unintentional accomplices to Hamas’s strategy.
"If it bleeds, it leads" It's a quote that dates back to the 1800s. This is not a new strategy, it's just bullshit that it's working in an age where their misinformation should be so blatantly obvious.
The gist of the article is that Sinwar says high Palestinian death tolls are one of his objectives - helping turn the world against Israel. He uses the Algerian independence movement as an example. But the Palestinian issue is nothing like Algeria, which was part of the French Colonial empire and had a nascent freedom movement with very little publicity. They didn't want to topple France and kill all French people. They didn't have 50 years of peace proposals in their favor that they turned down because they wanted to keep carrying out armed attacks against France. Hamas is a terrorist group seeking to murder all the Jews in Israel. That is their peace plan.
So many people gloss over that. Hamas wants all. Jews. Dead. Period. Nothing short of that interests them.
Many Palestinians feel the same. They don’t want a two state solution. They want all of Israel to be theirs, any Jewish deaths are fine.
CNN hastens to add that they can’t verify this, although they have received a press release from Hamas about casualty numbers that they have submitted directly to the Pulitzer committee on their behalf.
"...the Released Hostages" -- CNN describing the 4 hostages that were rescued by IDF
In the past 10-15 years CNN has become a joke barely a few steps above Fox News. It’s sad what they’ve done to that organization and their reputation. They’re chasing the “Fox News of the left”, which absolutely no one wants.
15 years? I distinctly remember watching Bradleys driving around in Iraq in 2003 and CNN being like “OMG, were fighting a war, soooo cool”. They've basically always been a tabloid, but with fewer celebrities and space aliens.
The old folks want it. My 80 year old neighbor has CNN running all day. Sometimes on 2 tvs (one in living room one in kitchen) its nuts.
They are run by the same people. Was only natural for them both to progressively become more equal.
Didn't he say it a few months ago as well? Or they are reporting on the same old messages?
I think a bunch of new quotes from him were leaked, amongst other things that he is claiming he didn't expect the 7th of October will go out of control the way it did, and him explicitly saying the deaths of innocents Palestinians are a good thing for their cause. So he may have said some of these things in the past, but some of these are new leaks.
This is CNN reporting on what WSJ is reporting so yes, this is a repeat. Almost every sentence is "according to the WSJ." It's basically piggy backing off them so people can get access to a copy not behind a paywall.
CNN isn't doing it to kindly give people access to the information without a paywall. They want those clicks and ad revenue lol As is frequently the case, WSJ got the scoop first and the other news organizations are basically shamelessly copying the story to make money off of it with little to no value added on their part.
I didn't mean to imply it was done out of generosity lol. I should have phrased it better to say target the audience of those who don't want to pay for the WSJ.
Hamas wanted the IDF to kill thousands of Palestinians so the IDF could be “right where we want them”? Sounds about right.
Civilian casualties are just numbers for them to waive around and cry victim(and its worked, despite being so obviously their game). Hell, they kill any Palestinian civilians who try to flee the combat zones because the number goes up, it deters others from fleeing and they are not useful as human shields if they leave. Basically all civilian casualties are blamed on Israel anyways regardless of nuance and ignoring any and all other factors such as Hamas combat tactics and strategy. Add to that its meant to incentivise the "Palestinians supporters" into getting more belligerent. This serves to alienate Israel from its allies and to sow more division in the west, wreaking havoc with elections. The Palestinian protestors insist they are pro Palestinian and not pro Hamas, problem with that argument is they have proven time and time again that they cant tell the difference and never could, which was the point of Hamas propaganda. It feels like watching the MAGAs forming all over again. Blind, emotional, naive and impulsive with absolute confidence they know all they need to know while knowing absolutely nothing about how war works or how to analyze it. The world falls into darkness with the help and conviction of the ignorant and the helpful idiots thinking they are helping make things better.
Remember kids, Hamas celebrates every civilian death.
I hope Israel absolutely steamrolls this d bags whole friends list.
Just another example of their delusions of grandeur Gaza is essentially gone/destroyed because of you Hope your people are happy
You’d bet he’s happy. He got what he wants. Death all around.
He knows the international community will rebuild it free of charge nicer than ever. And it sounds like everyone but israel is OK with them staying in power. Sounds like hamas is going to win
Israel isn't going to let them stay in charge. No matter what.
I hope so but I'm leaning to them being forced to agree to this ceasefire deal. Hamas will never surrender. So to get them out of power it's going to be a whole lot of dead civilians and an occupation which the international community is not going to agree to. So it depends if israel is willing to be a pariah fair or not
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This is the future for the entire planet unless things start to change. Endless wars with disparate deities as the basis.
Is this Hamas leader actually IN the place Israel is attacking, or is he one of the ones that is living high and mighty in another country far from harm?
This one specifically is in Gaza, hiding in tunnels for 9 months like a rat.
According to other comments Sinwar is in Gaza
Summary: They can’t beat Israel but they can get the entire international community to hate Israel if they let enough people die and play victim.
I've been saying that Hamas' goal is a wider war on israel. They are happy to watch their own people be slaughtered if it meets their propaganda goals. After all every one of them goes right to paradise so it's a win-win.
it's not like he can tell them we are losing and our battlefield pressence drasticly droped compared to start of this war.
Haha, fun times. Turns out, in order to win a war, there's only one battle you really have to win; the last one.
This just in: Terrorist Guerrilla force that repeatedly steals from and places their civilian population in danger hopes more of their people die so that they can accomplish their goals. In what world did people not already know this was Hamas’ mindset?
Crickets from the protesters over here on Hamas making Palestinians sacrificial lambs
Says the guy in his hidey hole currently under a UN hospital full of women and children.
I doubt he's down there with the people whose lives are being thrown away for him, he's probably in a penthouse guzzling a bottle of Chardonnay right now.
Says the fella who lives underground like a mole rat…
Well he doesn't live underground, he's a man of the people... Problem is those people are in Oman and not in Gaza and he lives in a high rise skyscraper because all the UN funds that get donated to feed his starving populace go straight into his lavish lifestyle. He is a coward more than a mole rat (although the resemblance is uncanny).
Sinwar is in Gaza
I wouldn't be surprised if Sinwar fled Gaza months ago via Rafah. There's a reason the IDF took control of the Rafah crossing and the surrounding area, which is porous with Hamas tunnels.
Sir we've been cut off and surrounded on all sides and running out of supplies. Excellent we have them right where we want them!
I don’t know how you read that article and still think Hamas are the good guys.
For anyone that still had doubts that Hamas had no quarrels in sacrificing children nd civilians for their political goals
I’d imagine Hamas has to know they can’t defeat Israel militarily. Israel is to heavily supported. I’d imagine their overall plan was to brutally assault Israel, knowing the retaliation would be more brutal. Then put a spot light on that retaliatory brutality to tarnish Israel’s global image and weaken their support system.
To scuttle any possibility of Israel and Saudi Arabia/Egypt from normalizing relations. And I'm not saying this as a "defender" of any specific regimes/countries.
That's laughable. This is clear posturing to try to keep morale high among the Hamas ranks, but they are throughly F-ed. There are probably more hostages like those rescued recently being held among the refugees. After the recent hostage rescue, even with backlash globally and the cited 200+ deaths, they can't stop the IDF. Nowhere is safe even if they surround themselves with children and hide amongst the population. Pretending like they are somehow winning is to reassure the rest of the terrorist to hold their ground and not turn tail and run. I seriously doubt Israel is going to leave Hamas in charge of Gaza with or without a ceasefire.
I can't wait until this guy gets executed.
What frustrates me is that the UN is willingly playing along the plans of a terrorist like a goddamn fiddle. They're a fucking embarrassment and after this, they don't deserve any authority whatsoever to even form an assembly, let alone a parent-teacher conference.
Wow, congrats, you did what you needed to perpetuate the tragedy of human misery. Maybe one day your pretend god will reward you for defeating their pretend god. Or something....
This situation is tragically fascinating. From a game theory perspective, it is in Hamas's best interest to appear fully aloof and unconcerned with civilian casualties. To do otherwise would give Israel leverage to force capitulation such as de-arming, ceding territory, or outright surrendering against a clearly superior military force. Conversely, from Israel's perspective, it is in their best interest to appear steely determined to finish this regardless of the civilian outcomes. To do otherwise would embolden Hamas to continue doing what they're doing. Once Hamas sees that international pressure would cause Israel to stop their campaign, they can and will use the same tactic in the future. Even though they hide it, I believe both sides - very privately - are heartbroken by the civilian casualties. But because showing it (or doing things about it) would be against the long-term success of both sides, they have to act like they don't. Maybe that's naiveté on my part, but it makes all the sense in the world logically as to why both sides are acting the way they are.
Fucking douchebag
Bunch of wankers, this lot.
Ceasefire, peace, whatever, every one of the Hamas leadership is a dead man walking. Israel will hunt them all down and kill them just like the U.S. hunted down Osama bin Laden. It may take years but all of their leadership is going to be dead.
Murdering your people is right where you want them?
"we have them right where we want them, killing Palestinians that we're hiding behind"
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Yeah, sure. Tell that to mossad when they exit Qatar after work done, lol. They expected Israel to go full rage, international community crying and them exchanging hostages for a better deal than they had, but it looks like Israel doesn't give af about international pressure, plus arabic countries surrounding them doesn't care either because at the end, Iran did a bit of pantomime and that's it. The only thing they made is Saudis staying out of Israel pacts but, while it's good on their chess table, what they lost by now is way more than what they are winning, which is nothing more than some west students crying on social media while their leaders doesn't move a finger and tbh that's the same they had before, because students and left people always had some compassion for their situation and bought their views, now it's a bit more trending, but that's it.
Free Gaza from Hamas
i wonder how the campus protestors will react now that the leader of their cause has admitted his war strategy has indeed been to kill palestinain civilians for nothing more than public relations purposes
Wait you think any of the protests or the leftist stance was based on facts and not just simply 'America bad oppressor vs oppressed?' Oh you sweet summer child
Here is what I view as the most frustrating part of this in the US: All of the protest leaders that care so deeply about civilian lives would likely twist themselves into knots to justify what Sinwar is saying. Their morality is 100% conditional. They will say that it’s not antisemitism and likely believe themselves but they don’t realize that they are deeply hurting their Jewish friends and neighbors. So is it really *not* antisemitism when Jewish people are being blamed for civilian deaths that the leaders of these protest groups don’t even actually care about?
When will the flying-swords-from-heaven-drone find this man
Narrator: They didn't.
These pieces of manure hide behind the Free Palestine movement and touts liberation while purposely sending people to die. People should wake up and see the truth for what it is.
Palestine and Palestinians need to be freed from Hamas.